Seraphor
Seraphor
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@Starrseed said:
i dont buy that whole: "oh they cant have more then one mode permanently cause then the ques would be so long" bs.
there are other games out there that have multiple modes that sustain these modes with there playerbase. if dbd does not have that large of a playerbase that is a clear sign that we need new existing stuff (like diffrent modes) to get our playerbase to grow.
i had so much fun in lights out. i love dbd i mostly play killer cause i dont like surv gameplay but playing killer really exhausts me cause i always fell a bit stressed. in lightout that stress was gone cause its not main dbd its that silly mode without perks.
we need more modes and we need them permanent. and for the love of god give us a mode where killer can finally have a friend
i dont buy that whole: "oh they cant have more then one mode permanently cause then the ques would be so long" bs.
This isn't their stance, this is just something random people have said on the forums.
BHVR's stance is that if the game mode was up for too long, those playing that game mode would decrease as the gimmick wears off, and I can agree with that. People were already over Lights Out after the first couple days, just like when people play the PTB each chapter. It was highly killer-favoured, and killer queues for Lights Out did end up getting pretty long, even if the regular mode queues were untouched.
But I do think one week was far too short, I think 2 weeks minimum should have been the benchmark, and if it turns out to be popular, extending it for another week or 2.
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Legion isn't particularly OP, but their power is pretty annoying to go against. Similar to Plague, it basically negates any healing attempts, which can instantly screw over survivors who invest in healing perks/medkits.
That's not to say bringing a medkit or a healing perk means you instantly lose against Legion, I've brought full healing builds against both Legion and Plague, and still escaped. But there's still that initial disappointment and pang of hopelessness that comes with knowing right away that you're at a disadvantage, and some players can't handle that, they have to be winning all the time.
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@RFSa09 said:
Resurgence, solidarity, reactive healing and botany, yes, i love healing me and other people at the same time
You must hate Sloppy Butcher
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@RakimSockem said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650079#Comment_3650079
Why shouldn't killing most of the survivors be difficult to achieve?
I don't understand this argument. You want one side of the game to be hard but the other side easy? Why not aim to make both a challenge? If I'm default getting a minimum of 3k every game while barely trying, the game is too easy
If you're getting a minimum 3K every game your kill rate is above 75%. That's not what these stats show.
60% kill rate is still a 2K average on a per-game basis, which is a loss for the killer. To translate to an average 3K, the kill rate would need to be above 62.5%.
Win rate =/= Kill rate. This isn't a symmetrical game where if one side loses the other side must have won. In this asymmetrical game, it is possible for both sides to lose, and both sides to win. A 3K is a win for the killer and a survivor, a 2K is a loss for for 2 survivors and the killer. There are 5 players per game, without an even number of players you can't have an even win rate.
A win for the killer translates to 75% kill rate or more per gamen or 62.5% average. A win for survivor is that particular survivor escaping, or 50% average. It's not comparable.
In order to keep an even win rate, the kill rate has to be higher than 50%, and lower than 62.5%, purely based on number of players per game.
The problem is that because of this asymmetrical format, both sides lose more than they win. Killers are losing more than they win if their kill rate is below 62.5%. Survivors are losing more than they win when their escape rate is below 50%. There is a 12.5% overlap where nobody is happy, and that is the reason why both sides think the game is biased against them. That's why as players, we all need to accept that this is not a game you're supposed to win a lot. Winning is a challenge. For both sides.
This is precisely why I'm happy playing survivor, and playing solo survivor, even when I'm not escaping most of the time. I'm not expecting to escape 50% or more, if I was that would imply the game was far too survivor sided.
It seems like so few people get this. Everyone saying the game is grossly killer sided, or grossly survivor sided, or that kill rates should be 50/50, simply do not understand the game they are playing.
You should be fighting to survive, against the odds, not expecting that you will.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650315#Comment_3650315
Thats how serious i take those stats. Skill Merchant has the highest kill rate because she obviously is OP and not because everyone suicides on her. Nurse has among the lowest kill rate because she´s the strongest killer.
Balance decisions based on those stats really frighten me.
Nurse has been "the strongest killer with the lowest kill rate" for years. So I don't know why anyone should worry about balance decisions based on these stats.
We all know they base balance decisions on their horoscopes.
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@TieBreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650163#Comment_3650163
The MMR loss must be incredibly small if survivors are dying most of the time and still staying in high MMR.
I wish the game could recognise good plays outside of escapes or kills. A survivor that loops for a long time whilst doing gens and helping teammates but dies shouldn't lose MMR and killers that spread hooks instead of tunneling players out shouldn't be losing their MMR either.
It's likely due to the fact that a 60/40 split would mean that survivors on average would lose more MMR than killers.
In order to keep "survivors that escape more than 40% of the time" pairing with killers who "kill more than 60%", surviors MMR would have to be weighted higher.
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@Nos37 said:
Instead of having to go map-by-map and look for abuseable spots to make Boil Over more fair, they could just make two changes to Boil Over:
- Boil Over does not work while exhausted.
- Wiggling off the killer's shoulder causes exhaustion.
The survivor can still run to their favorite spot and have fun wasting the killer's time, but they cannot abuse it over and over back-to-back. Plus it fits thematically. The survivor's kickng and flailing will be less effective against the killer if that survivor is exhausted.
Seems fair to me.
This it or has charges.
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@I_CAME said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650120#Comment_3650120
We really going to pretend like killers DC anywhere near as much as survivors?
What's 'anywhere near'?
I see more survivors DC than killers, but I still see killers DC.
I also escape alongside bots quite a bit, they're usually better than the petulant children who spawned them.
In fact I played a killer game today where the first survI downed instantly DCd. I was going to go easy on the other three, but they turned out to be super sweaty and despite me turning back into high gear they escaped.
Either way players tend to DC when they're already losing, difference is survivors can DC but then go on to win.
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@I_CAME said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649991#Comment_3649991
The kill rate is higher than this in reality. Note the part where they left DC matches out even though they have bots now. They must significantly change the kill rates if they felt the need to remove it from the data entirely.
This is called moving the goal posts. Killers can DC too.
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I think Terrifier and M3gan would fit right in.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649969#Comment_3649969
if it does it slower, then i have to follow survivor to insure value out of interrupted heal which defeats purpose of the status effect because you are committed to the chase.
You always have to interrupt the heal to get value out of Haemorrhage...
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I actually ran Boil Over on Hawkins yesterday and tried this exact thing.
There were 3 hooks within Boil Over range, including one up the stairs right next to the railing.
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@jonifire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3650046#Comment_3650046
Where is the challenge? You shouldn‘t win on default! A 2k is a win. Everything above should be difficult to archive.
Why shouldn't escaping be difficult to acheive?
Survivors have an all-or-nothing goal, while for killers its modular. If a 4K (max score for killer) should be difficult and occur less than 50% of the time, then surely managing to escape (max score for survivor) should be more difficult than 50% as well.
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In the past they've used 'High MMR' to reference the top 5% of players.
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@Crowman said:
3% overall, but in High MMR it's almost a 10% gap. Basically showing that the more experience, the more advantage that coordinating gives.
Either way, a 9% difference isn't that significant, and less than it used to be (15%). This just goes to show that SWF aren't as huge of a problem as some like to make out they are.
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Sloppy Butcher is supposed to be a counter to perks like this, just as things like Distortion and Blindness are counters to aura perks. "Ensuring you get value" defeats the point, that's like saying Fogwise should bypass Blindness to ensure value against Mindbreaker.
What should change however is that Haemorrhage should reduce your health slower, it doesn't need to be 99 to 0 in 3 seconds, it could be much slower and still be effective, as it's mostly used to deny medkits. Slower health drain means you can work around it by initiating healing sooner, and limiting your losses.
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We'll Make it, Renewal, Empathy, Deja Vu
Loads of info (can see when a survivor is about to go down, and who needs healing, and what needs repairing)
Plus fast heals under the hook that bank my Renewal, throw in a decent medkit and I can get that heal for around 5 seconds.
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@Nazzzak said:
They absolutely do need a better way of determining skill/matchmaking. Kills and escapes don't cut it.
There is no way of determining this in such a game. What defines 'skill' in DBD and how would you measure it? A complex algorithm of chase times, hooks, rescues, gens completed, totems cleansed, kills and escapes? How would you weight each element, and how would you know if you got it right? What if the weighting towards gens was too great and it was possible to game the system by genrushing and then dying? What if hooks being a factor meant that survivors giving up caused killers to decrease in MMR? Bloodpoint scores? What if you win too hard and walk away with 4 kills in 3 minutes and only 15K BP, but then you play a 30 minute game against a SWF who all escape, but you score 30K BP?
Kills and escapes works as an average gauge of skill. A better player will escape/kill more than a less skilled player. Do you disagree with this statement and if so why? If that bolded statement is not true, then what does being 'skilled' actually mean?
The problem is that this is only valid when you can be reliably sure that your teammates/opponents are of a comparable skill to you. If Matchmaking messes up more than it gets it right, then your average kills/escapes won't be as reflective of your skill. In short, the randomness of matchmaking will be a greater factor in your 'average win rate' than your own skill. MMR becomes more of a reflection of your matchmaking luck, and a messy input leads to a messy output.
MMR isn't actually a bad system, for killers, when it works.
It's a less effective system for survivors, when their own teammates can be a greater factor in their demise than the killer they face, and this poses the potential to get 'stuck' in low MMR in a sort of positive feedback loop. (there are workarounds for this, playing Sole Survivor and only looking out for yourself, but this shouldn't' be necessary)
As for 'when it works', this is what they need to fix. MMR doesn't work; when a player is backfilled, when queue times are too long. Backfilling is a major issue for matchmaking, I see the killer dodge my lobbies more often than not, those are game with no MMR at all, those are games where the result of which is not an accurate reflection of skill, and will contribute to skewing MMR rather than aiding it.
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I'd actually love that, for certain maps.
Dead Dawg has a unique breakable wall in shack.
RPD has a much deeper basement than other maps.
Temple of Purgation and Springwood can have a basement in a basement.
There could be a unique map/realm where you can have this 'ceiling' entry to the basement, due it the basement entrance being otherwise very strong.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
If anything, CoB should be reworked but not buffed. As long as its regression is completely free to get (as in, it’s not regression you have to earn like you do with most of the other regression perks) it shouldn’t be very good. Overcharge is fine.
All regression is earned by keeping survivors off the gen/s that's regressing.
This is precisely how Ruin was always earned as well. Until that too was overnerfed.
CoB works in the same way, it's not instant regression, it's regression over time, you earn it by pressuring survivors.
Overcharge works by getting survivors back on the gen, it doesn't make sense for Overcharge to have an 'over time' regression bonus.
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These were nerfed because they stack. Except they didn't used to stack at all.
I think Overcharge should be reworked so it doesn't boost regression. Missing the skillcheck should remove an additional 5% progress, while hitting the skillcheck should still remove 5% progress. So either way the killer gets at least 5% regression if the survivors touch the gen within 60s.
Now Call Of Brine can be buffed to 150% regression, and instead of stacking, they compliment. OC punishes survivors that halt regression, CoB punishes survivors who don't.
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@Kaitsja said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648930#Comment_3648930
Anytime anyone says "Killers wouldn't have to tunnel were it not for XYZ", there's a 100% chance that they'd still tunnel even if they got what they wanted.
The problem is some killers will always tunnel, because it's the easy option.
However, I didnt camp and tunnel in Light's Out, and I had a much better time not tunneling than I tend to in usual play.
Some killers are tunnellers, some killers tunnel out of necessity but don't actually enjoy it. If you provide a viable alternative, you won't eliminate tunneling, but you will decrease tunneling.
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@HerInfernalMajesty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3649079#Comment_3649079
So if there were only two Survivors left then the last gen would be normal speed. It’s a little tough imo but I’d be willing to try it.
The only criticism I can give it is that maybe the system could feel too convoluted at first. But I think people would catch on. The trial gets more difficult as Survivors progress with some small relief after a Survivor dies.
I think it's fair. If there's only one gen left then the survivors haven't been struggling and the killer has likely not been tunneling, at that point, the killer shouldn't be penalised for a sacrifice.
It's self-limiting for both sides. If one side 'wins too much' (tunneling or genrushing) then the other side gets a repreive/bonus, which only lasts until the game 'levels out' again.
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@HerInfernalMajesty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648936#Comment_3648936
Thank you for putting down what I was trying to convey. It really does feel off that a 2K is pretty much a 3-4K.
I mean I get the argument that if the team played well and there is only one generator left then the two have more of a chance to escape vs if they have to complete three gens because the team didn’t play well.
But like you said it still doesn’t make sense that a 2K translates to a 3-4K. I mean I suppose the answer is that it translates to a 3-4K if the team played bad which I can see as valid. But idk… I keep going back and forth with this one.
In my eyes I see every kill as making the game smaller. So when two Survivors are left the game becomes a mini trial between the last three players: The two Survivors and one Killer. I mean it’s kind of like that when there’s only one Survivor left and the hatch just got closed.
Idk, I get where everyone is coming from. I just wish a 2K wasn’t mostly an automatic loss for individual Survivors.
Precisely why in my first post, I suggest it should be a system that scales with both kills and gens. This dampens the snowball effect for either side, and doesn't take victories away from the killer if they're valid victories.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648960#Comment_3648960
Fair enough man, but I sit with @Devil_hit11 on this one, and it's born out the issue of, when comparing perks, 5 seconds is 5 seconds...
Like if we're debating between perks to pick from for gen auras, each with different triggers, ranges, target conditions and durations, e.g.: -
- Deja Vu
- Visionary
- Rookie Spirit
- Detective's Hunch
We can argue about all the different situations they activate, and when they'll be useful, how mu h calue on average we would expect, and we'd come to rough consensus they are roughly equal. Like some would be better than others most of the time, but there'd be a discussion worth having, as you can account for the perks weaknesses to make use of the strength.
If I just then say "One of these also has a permanent small boost to your repair speed that saves appoximately 5 seconds per gen", every other talking point beyweennthese perks kinda becomes obsolete, because whatever your preference of these perks is, the one with the repair bonus is objectively the strongest perk. That boost can be the difference between beating a Pain Res or a Grim Embrace, denying a Pop, completing a gen for your Adrenaline proc.
One of my favourite things to do in DBD is create builds... whether weak or not, I enjoy doing it, especially when going for challenges... but if I go for a gen aura perk of some description... Deja Vu wins by default every time.
I still run the other perks time to time, but it comes with a reluctant acknowledgement that Deja Vu is the better choice...
Thing is, even with the 6% gone, Deja Vu would still beat out those other perks due to the fact that it reveals precisely the gens you need to repair, permanently.
Meanwhile, repair speed boosts need to be moderated, but there's stil room for them to exist, and the 6% from Deja Vu is minimal compared to most others.
Individually neither is a problem, but I can totally see some of the other gen info perks being buffed in exchange for Deja Vu losing the 6%.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648586#Comment_3648586
if its strength is knowing where gens are, then you don't mind the 6% bonus going.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648735#Comment_3648735
my problem with it is that it reverts gen speed nerf to pre 6.1.0 level. So survivor get free base-kit BT but no gen speed nerf because deja vu replaces old BT. It is also low commit perk, i.e survivor can run Adrenaline+Exhaust+w/e with this perk.
A nothing perk means that you don't mind the 6% going. After all, it is nothing change. right?
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648606#Comment_3648606
that's fine because you commit an entire build towards gens which allows killer to tunnel you as you are weak link, chase-wise.
I wouldn't be too bothered if the 6% was nerfed or removed entirely, I'd probably still run it. I just don't see it as a problem, or as a threat when playing killer.
It really doesn't revert to pre 6.1 gen speeds though, it's sacrificing a perk slot to go halfway back to pre 6.1.
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@RpTheHotrod said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648375#Comment_3648375
In that case, the killer won. Survivors failed. Why give them a catch up mechanic? Why bother even playing killer and doing the objective if it makes no difference in the endgame? If you kill 2, survivors get super speed and knock gens out fast. If you don't kill, survivors get super speed in numbers and knock out gens fast.
What sense does it make that if you manage to kill 2 survivors, you should be given the last 2 kills for no effort?
You haven't killed 4 survivors, you've killed 2, 2 out of 4.
This is like survivors powering the exit gates after 2 gens if they get repaired fast enough.
This snowball effect isn't something survivors have access to, and is solely what makes tunneling so effective. You've ended the game early for one or two survivors, and then damned the remaining survivors to a hatch game or worsen before the games even really begun.
Tunnelling should remain a valid choice for the killer but it shouldn't be the single best option, and scaling objective speeds based on eliminated players is a way of modulating that, and fine tuning the single variable that makes tunneling ridiculously over-rewarding.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648332#Comment_3648332
My build is:
Empathic connection, botany knowledge, second wind and well make it. Works like a charm. Not been tunneled out so far. Been using it for months now.
Im sorry that your experience is so different.
I love this build. Throw on a 40 charge Medkit as well and you can get your post-hook heals off in about 5 seconds. (banking your own post-hook heal, and therefore scoring 2 heals in 5 seconds instead of 32 seconds)
Although I'd personally trade Empathic Connection for Empathy. I've used both, but the agency gained from being the one to find the injured survivor, as opposed to relying on them finding you (as well as getting prior warning as to where chased survivors are about to go down) is much more effective.
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@Snowbawlzzz said:
I'd personally rather there be no MMR
This likely IS the result of no MMR.
So many people don't seem to pay attention when their killer gets backfilled.
If you see the killer dodge the lobby, you should dodge it too, force everyone out to requeue from scratch.
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They don't... all sound identical...
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@YamamuraVideoRentals said:
Without botany knowledge, a survivor can heal themselves to full with one medkit.
WITH botany knowledge, it just doesn't work, and you can't heal yourself with the same medkit. Makes no sense.
They need to redo some math and reduce the penalty slightly so that it's still possible to heal yourself with a medkit.
The only way to do that would be to remove the penalty entirely, which defeats the point.
The whole point of the penalty is that Botany Knowledge does not work with Medkits.
If you want to heal with a Medkit, don't bring Botany Knowledge, it's that simple. There are 133 other survivor perks to use.
Alternatively, you can bring medkit add ons that increases the charges. You only need 8 more charges to reach 32, which will be a full heal under the effect of Botany Knowledge.
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@YamamuraVideoRentals said:
No amount of skill can guarantee a 4k without some form of slugging, even if it's brief.
No amount of skill should be 'guaranteeing' anything.
If an outcome is guaranteed, the game is broken. That's precisely why survivors are giving up and hiding.
Play for the 4K normally, and if you find the hatch first you win. If you don't, play one more game, it's a 50/50.
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Deja Vu is so much of a nothing perk, I don't understand why killers get so uppity about it when the likes of Hyperfocus, Toolboxes and Resilience exist. It's info is far more useful than the 6% speed buff that only shaves off about 4 seconds, IF you manage to stick to that gen for the entire 86 seconds anyway.
I'd much, much rather Toolboxes got a rework similar to Medkits last year, that completely negates their ability to stack with perks of a similar nature.
@ChaosWam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3648630#Comment_3648630
Well consider that Deja Vu only got buffed because of the 3 gen issue, as was said as much when it happened. It's only natural people would ask why it wasn't reverted now that 3 gen has a solid fix.
Also consider that Bloodlust was only added to the game so killers could deal with infinite tile loops. Those loops are long gone but we still have Bloodlust.
BHVR work in a "if it aint broke don't fix it" policy, both Bloodlust and Deja Vu are absolutely fine in their current states, regardless of the reason they were created for. They won't remove them 'out of principle' but IF they become a problem. If their stats show that Deja Vu is definitively contributing to lower kill rates, it will get nerfed.
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"Tunnelling gens" or "Genrushing" is focusing on gens above all other considerations.
This is like repairing a gen in the killers face even when you do down right as it's finished, or sticking to your gen when your teammates are dying on the hook.
Unlike killers tunnelling, actual genrushing is almost always detrimental to the team.
As opposed to efficiently progressing your objective, which is repairing gens without ignoring other requirements and without negatively impacting the team. Killers can also efficiently progress their objective without tunnelling and camping too, but scoring quick downs and short chases.
But the two sides just aren't entirely comparable, because it's an asymmetrical game.
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@I_Tunnel said:
I don't like the idea because the Killer STARTS at a disadvantage; He can only be in 1 place, while Survivors can be in up to 4 places at once.
This idea basically removes the entire point of the Killer getting hooks and kills; His momentum being built.
Now, instead of slowing down gen speeds by causing Survivors to do other things; They either get faster, or break even (Depending on the speed buff via this idea) for the Survivors still doing gens.
It misses the point that the Killer is supposed to build momentum by hooking survivors, and instead takes all that momentum away by removing the slowdown from Survivors as they are hooked/dead.
Survivors should not get a 'reward' or 'buff' just because they are starting to lose the match, which is what this idea does.
The problem is that early elimination, particularly via tunneling, builds too much momentum. One survivor gone with multiple gens left to repair is a lost game. The killer shouldn't automatically win just because they killed one survivor out of four. That's like survivors powering the exit after 1 or 2 gens.
This makes tunneling too profitable, too rewarding, too justifiable.
Speeding up gen repairs as survivors are eliminated isn't necessarily putting the killer at a disadvantage, they're just not at as much of an advantage. Gen speeds could be increased by as much as 33% per survivor eliminated, and the average potential progress survivors can make will still be less than what the living survivor could have contributed. So each survivor eliminated would still be, on average, in the killers favour.
That said, I do think the point about it being an issue for very close games is valid. I don't think it should be flat increases for eliminated survivors, but should scale with both survivors and gens.
- Each survivor eliminated increases repair speeds by 10%.
- Each gen repaired decreases repair speeds by 5%.
This would mean that a close game wouldn't change too much, 4 gens and 2 survivors would cancel out at 20% +/-, and by spreading hooks and actively avoiding early sacrifices, you actually curb on genrushing a little. It would almost be like making Thanatophobia basekit only when survivors genrush, and Resilience/Deja Vu basekit only when killers tunnel.
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Very early on in my time playing killer, I played a game as Spirit.
About 20 seconds into the game I phased and grabbed someone off a gen. Hooked them, turned around and another survivor was right there for the unhook. Chased them for a bit until I downed and hooked them, immediately phased back to the first hook and grabbed someone attempting a hook save. There were two survivors there so I put her down to chase the last standing survivor.
Everyone was hooked and sacrificed in about 1 minute 30.
Not something I'd ever do now because no one wants to queue for 10 minutes to be killed in 30 seconds and leave with 500 BP, but at the time as a newbie it was a bit of a rush.
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Or you can go to the gens? Where you have a massive advantage on catching survivors outpositioned.
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@Vorahk08 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3647850#Comment_3647850
I use Déja Vu and toolboxes as solo survivor as well. Nerfing them alone wouldn't help solo survivors. I don't think, however, that solo que should rely on strong perks to be bearable. Everyone has been saying for a while now that solo survivor needs QOL improvements, because the situation for us is kind of getting worse. If solo que was buffed in a meaningful way that provided players with more information, similar to the information that SWF get through comms, then it would contribute to better game health becacuse BHVR would be able to balance the game around survivors as a whole, instead of balancing around both solo que and SWF, which are completely different in terms of power balance. The HUD upgrades are an example of this. It doesn't really help SWFs, but its great for solo que.
When I talk about nerfing toolboxes and gen speed perks, I'm thinking of something similar to what they did last year with medkits. Toolboxes and perks like déja vu on survivor are like Ultimate Weapon on killers. They're great for lower tier killers, but it also makes the best killers more frustrating to play against. Having strong perks for all survivors makes both solo survivor and SWF stronger, though, and that's the problem for balance. My suggestion for nerfing gen speed perks is based on the healing nerfs from last year in the Tools of Torment Mid-Chapter. They strategically nerfed medkits and COH so that survivors wouldn't be able to self-heal as much. They can get a couple of self-heals out of medkits, but medkits as a whole were made less powerful. It made hit and run viable again for killers. I still bring medkits in games. I suggest nerfs to the things that speed up gens because making gen speeds a bit more standard would make it easier to balance killer vs survivor.
I actually agree with toolboxes getting the medkit treatment.
But there is zero reason to target Deja Vu. It's a great solo perk, and the bonus to repair speeds is negligible.
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@Vorahk08 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3647797#Comment_3647797
sigh, I know, I just feels like so many killers get completely run over by survivors having communication. A better solution would probably be to nerf gen speed perks like déja vu and toolboxes, buff solo que (IDK how), and balance the game around SWF. I suggested speed penalties because it seems like the game is still balanced around survivors not having comms, which just isn't how the majority plays, I guess.
Sorry if I came across as aggressive.
But I use Deja Vu and Toolboxes as a solo survivor. How is nerfing them going to help me as a solo survivor?
And when I play with friends, we spend most of our time distracting each other. So what is giving us 'speed penalties' going to achieve?
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@concubined said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3647570#Comment_3647570
Ok but why can’t y'all ever just agree on people’s posts instead of telling them to be wiggling and maneuvering around a perk that isn’t working as intended. If it disables from conspicuous action like it states let it be disabled entirely. Gosh
Are you familiar with the concept of 'an opinion'?
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@concubined said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3647565#Comment_3647565
My point is they get value from other two effects no matter what
Not if you never lose sight of them.
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I've had plenty of games that were fair for all five players. They usually occur when I play killer and just about hold off from winning too much, spread hooks and everyone gets to endgame.
But even then, even when I'm playing nice and giving out windows to score rescues etc., I'll occasionally find at least one survivor who doesn't appreciate the leeway and just begs to die instead.
You simply can't please everyone all the time.
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It's true though, and my experience (before this comment was made) correlates.
The main problem with solo queue is that survivors just don't coordinate with each other.
We do have most of the tools to do so. Once in a blue moon I get a solo team who do coordinate really well, who are all on the same page when it comes to going for hook rescues and manage to juke the killer, and it works just as well as a swf.
The rest of the time I lose as a solo because others survivors make decisions that leave me scratching my head as I die/hang there on the hook when there was no reason I should have been.
That said, there are still minor things they could do to improve solo survivor. They wont fix the core problem, and BHVR are obviously in budget mode, so deem it not worthwhile for such a measly improvement.
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"Something has happened to me, it must be a systematic problem that affects everyone"
Everyone: "not me, I'm good" "I'm good too" "yeah no problems here"
"Wow everyone is lying"
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@Nick said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3646827#Comment_3646827
You (and the 7 people who liked your comment) probably read the title and called it a day. I even put a TLDR at the bottem where I said the following:
"Will there be a moment somewhere in the feature where we could expect a new concept for the endgame? Has someone thought about one, is there an idea floating around? One which includes more interaction between the two roles? Which feels more satisfying for both killer and survivor? The current endgame situation creates, in my opinion, toxicity and awkward scenarios."
.... I'm not saying to remove the hatch and just let the other 2 survivors die. Because that's literally the first problem I mentioned, the last 2 survivors hiding. That will be a huge problems if you just remove the hatch like that, so why would I keep it that way?
The fact remains that in order to provide a viable avenue for the 2 last survivors, there needs to be 'hope' for the final survivors survival, irrespective of the survivors objective progress.
This is currently provided by the hatch, but if the hatch did not exist, it would need to be provided by some other 'sudden death' sort of mechanism.
This mechanism, whatever shape it takes, will always be seen as "cheap" by shortsighted killers, because is has to be disconnected from gen progress and will seem "unearned".
There is no way to reconcile the need for a viable exit for the last survivor, with a killers desire for a reliable method to achieve a 4K.
The only other solution is to make a 4K less desirable. I'd propose that most of your "problems" are only problems in the context of killers trying to guarantee a 4K and not being content to either settle for the 3K or at least leave the 4th kill up to chance. After all it's not actually that difficult to 4K, if you can 3K reliably then the 4th kill being essentially a 50/50 shot is absolutely fine. If you miss it in one game, then you're likely to score it in the next 3K game when the hatch coin flip falls in your favour.
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Ok, so there's 2 survivors left, there are still gens to repair, and the Hatch doesn't exist anymore.
What are survivors supposed to do? They're guaranteed to be killed the moment either one of them is found. The other one won't have the opportunity to repair any remaining gens and escape when they're the only objective left for the killer.
If the last 2 survivors don't have any chance of escaping, then they'll just give up. Which means every time the killer manages to kill the first 2 survivors, the last 2 survivors are automatically killed.
2K and 3K games will no longer exist, every 2K becomes an automatic 4K, the only outcomes will be 0K, 1K, or 4K.
Is it not 'cheap' for 2 kills to automatically become 4 kills? Were the last 2 kills 'earned'?
It's not 'cheap' that the final survivor gets a 'sudden death' 50/50 escape mechanic (that doesn't actually count as an escape btw). It's necessary for the health of the game.
Without it, every 2K is a 4K, kill rates skyrocket, tunneling becomes a more effective 'guaranteed win' tactic, forcing BHVR to heavily nerf killers.
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Random perks, but no add-ons or offerings.
VIP: No perks/add-ons/offerings. Killer has to kill the obsession, non-obsession survivors have infinite hook states, but being hooked as the obsession ends the game. Stunning the killer with a pallet or flashlight makes you the obsession. Other survivors need to protect the obsession as long as possible.
Last survivor: Everyone starts with one hook state (get hooked once = you're out) No exit gates, instead powering a generator unlocks a special chest with an item that grants you a hook state while held. Final survivor automatically escapes.
I'm not actually keen on 2v8. I think it sounds ridiculous to balance, would probably be limited to the original 3 killers only, and would exclude all last gen console players.
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3 gens aren't meant to be easily beatable, they're meant to not be an infinite stalemate.
If the killer isn't committing to chases and only defending gens, then two or more survivors will repair the gens if they focus on tag-teaming the two furthest gens and running away as the killer approaches.
If the killer is using a 3 gen for pressure and scoring hits/downs in the process, then the killer is using the 3 gen as intended.
The anti-3-gen regression limit is not supposed to be an automatic win for the survivors.
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I would scale repair speeds with remaining survivors / remaining gens.
For each gen that gets repaired, global repair speeds are reduced by 5%.
For each survivor sacrificed, global repair speeds are increased by 10%.
Exact values of course subject to balance calculations, but the gist of it means if 2 survivors are sacrificed gens fly by [20%] faster, but if 4 gens are repaired before anyone is sacrificed then the last one takes [20%] longer.
This would incentivise killers to keep survivors in the trial longer (sort of like a basekit Thanatophobia) while making gens slower as the game goes on, curbing the benefits of early-game genrushing. If survivors are sacrificed then any remaining survivors have more incentive to attempt repairs instead of giving up, and if 3 gens pop in the first chase the killer knows the remaining gens will be tougher. (The latter could have posed issues for 3 gens, but we have a solution to that now)
It could be displayed on the HUD as some kind of 'Entities Favour' gauge, aiding/penalising the killer for succeeding/failing to inflict enough pain and suffering. The lore/mechanism gor this already exists in the entities judgement in the postgame screen for the killer, this would just bring it into live play.
I also think Toolboxes should get the Medkit treatment, mostly standardising their benefits to repairs (like +10/15/20/25% repair speeds with a fixed amount of charges by toolbox rarity instead of the +50/100% with double the charges we currently have) while keeping their sabotage effects different.
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Seconded