Seraphor
Seraphor
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@Nebula said:
I think one of the biggest and most prevalent issues surrounding matchmaking is lobby dodging. As long as this persists and they prioritize quickness over fair matchmaking, the system will never work properly. I believe they should hide names and prestiges from the killer in the lobby and either some sort of disincentive to dodging or even remove the option all-together (not sure if this is even possible, people will just quit out the app, which is why disincentivizing is the more logical solution). But as long as lobby dodging is a thing (and it frequently happens) matchmaking will never work properly.
I think if the 'role in need' is the one being backfilled, then it should apply standard matchmaking rules. The time to fill the role in need should be fast anyway so it shouldn't need to expidite it. The role in need is also likely to be the one dodging lobbies as well, due to their fast queues.
Besides that though, I wouldn't be against a minor penalty such as:
- Dodging your third lobby in a row triggers a recurring 5 minute matchmaking penalty.
- Completing a trial resets the penalty.
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1. If you're playing off peak times, then likely no, matchmaking "gives up" after a certain amount of time to make sure you're not waiting forever for a match that isn't available at your MMR.
2. Backfilling exists. If someone drops out of a lobby, it will attempt to fill that spot with anyone, with no consideration to matchmaking. If it's the killer that dodges the lobby, then what you've experienced is very likely. Watch the tally in the bottom-right of the lobby screen. If the killer drops out, you're better off requeuing.
@TheArbiter said:
The MMR decay in this game is way too slow
3. There is no MMR decay. Instead, MMR recalculations become more generous the longer you're away from the game. I.e. if you play every day then your day to day MMR changes will be small. But if you don't play for a long time and then lose your first game when you return, your MMR will decrease by a larger amount.
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Suggestion : when you stop repairing a generator, the skill check event is cancelled if it's not due to a killer related perk (opression, overcharge, etc.).
So survivors could just let go every time they get a skillcheck and not need to worry about hitting them?
The better option would be to treat all skillchecks like Overcharge skillchecks and have it continue after you've let go.
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Nope. I use Surge fairly regularly and I haven't seen any gen hit the limit yet.
I've seen the early warning spikes a few times, and I wonder if some people mistake that for the regression limit, particularly if they're using things like Surge instead of manually kicking a gen, in which case you wouldn't necessarily know that the spikes meant you can still kick it.
@Unam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3643538#Comment_3643538
The system should just kick in if 1 gen is left to do. It doesnt make sense that regression Events are counted b4 a 3 gen is even possible.
Having the system in play before the final gen actually puts the onus on the survivors to break a 3 gen early.
If it only kicked in at the last gen, then the killer would be able to camp out a 3 gen from the start of the game. Survivor's wouldn't be able to make progress there so would ultimately just ignore the 3 gen and repair the other four first. Leading to a dull game for everyone with a 3 gen standoff at the end, even if it's not an infinite stalemate.
Instead survivors now have incentive to try to break the killers 3 gen early on, because they have the regression limit to fall back on. This gives the killer greater pressure in defending gens at the start of the game instead of allowing survivors to just abandon gens until the first four are repaired.
The goal of gen defence isn't to perpetually halt repair progress, it's to lure survivors into compromising positions so you can score downs.
If you're doing that effectively, you won't ever need 8 regression events, particularly when it comes to down-triggered regression events like Surge, Eruption, Pop and Pain Res.
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This is just Bloodlust.
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I don't understand why we have to jump through so many hoops to get these but Switch players just get codes.
Just make them available to everyone via codes if they're given out for free anyway.
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@I_CAME said:
because the game is obviously survivor sided if killer mains can't have a killer that is capable of winning 1000 games in a row with zero perks or addons. In all seriousness there is zero reason for her to still exist as she does. People who defend this killer are no different than the people who defended old dead hard. They just enjoy being OP and don't want that taken away from them.
I don't play Nurse. I suck as Nurse, mostly because I play on console.
I'm against all the whine-fueled dumbing down of this game to squeeze it into some shoebox where we all just run around standardised loops for a preset number of times until the killer is granted their 50/50 attempt at a hit under a pallet, rinse and repeat.
Nurse is a welcome dash of variety.
Half of my games against Nurse are actually really fun. Once you learn how to juke her with line of sight blockers.
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If she's that broken why doesn't everyone play her?
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If possible, I think it should recommence matchmaking when the role in need dodges a lobby.
So if the +100% bonus is on Killer meaning Killers get nigh-instant queues, then a Killer dodging a lobby causes the system to search for another killer in the same MMR bracket. And vice versa.
The role in need is more likely to be the one dodging lobbies (because their queues are virtually instant) and this shouldn't drastically increase lobby wait times.
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This. A lot complain about 'matchmaking', but many seem to be oblivious to when they get backfilled, meaning there is a complete lack of matchmaking taking place.
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I don't think 2v8 can ever work and I have no idea why people seem so enamoured by this idea. It would be popular for a day before everyone got pissed off with how insanely unbalanced and chaotic it was, and how console users were locked out due to performance issues.
Pairing Doctor, Plague or Legion with anyone else would be broken.
Of the 'alternative game modes' they suggested, the only ones that had any merit were the 'Lights Out' one we're getting, the 'quick game' one where everyone has a single hook, and the 'VIP' one where you need to ensure a specific survivor survives.
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@saym said:
I think MMR.
The reason is that I have been playing this game for 9000 hours, and I think that if there are 3 survivors with the same skill, there is no problem with solo queue.
What do you guys think?
It's impossible for the game to evaluate who has the same "skill".
Kill/escape rates are the most objective metric available.
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I could see the duration/cooldown being played with, but I think the 'buffer' time between opening a locker and then moving away is useful.
It could afford to be 15 seconds uptime with a 45 second cooldown for one use per minute though.
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@Feneroe said:
If a survivor is using Windows of Opportunity to run from pallet to pallet, a perk that allows you to see the aura of the object they're running to isn't really going to help. It's why Zanshin Tactics is so useless.
That gives me an idea for a potential buff to Zanshin.
If a survivor executes a fast vault or drops a pallet currently illuminated by Zanshin Tactics, they become afflicted with Blindness for x seconds.
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I think Tombstone Peice should only allow the mori of a survivor who has been fully stalked, and Judith's Tombstone should only work on survivors who have been previously hooked.
TSP is problematic because you can access it quickly and eliminate a survivor early, but this would ensure you could only eliminate the survivor who has fed you the most stalk, giving survivors a counter mechanic. While JT is a long game mechanic, and you should be making several hooks before you get to use it.
This would still give this mechanic a viable use for a killer playing 'fair', and wouldn't be so 'unfair' for survivors.
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Facing a mirror myers is the single best experience in this game and you can't have that without a map offering.
Outside of that, maps simply aren't as unbalanced as most seem to believe. The unbalanced part is the SWF that's using it. You would have lost even if they didn't play the map offering, because you were facing a highly coordinated SWF.
When solo's play map offerings it's of almost no consequence.
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It's true that you can't stop people leaving if they really want to go.
However in my experience, the 'decision' to die on hook is usually a 'heat of the moment' one that might not have been necessary. You might think the game is going south and there's no hope, but then your teammates change tack and start pulling it back.
I've had games where I've been hooked first, saw all my teammates on the opposite side of the map engaged with the killer and thought they won't make it to me. So I've taken my unhook attempts, only for one to sprint straight to me and rescue me in the nick of time. If I hadn't taken my chances, I wouldn't have been on death hook.
It's happened to me more than once. In addition, I've had teammates die on first hook and manage to turn the game around to a point where we wpuld have won if that player hadn't quit, and I've had teammates DC only for us to all escape, with the bots.
In this respect, I think the game could benefit from making it take a bit longer for survivors to sacrifice themselves, so that players have a chance to cooldown and reevaluate if they actually need to quit out of the game.
I currently takes around 20 seconds minimum to die on first hook. About 10 seconds to take your unhook chances and play out the animation, then a further 10 seconds to 'miss' your skill checks.
If it took say 45 seconds instead, it would still be the quickest route out of the game without eating a DC penalty, but it could afford time for other survivors to make a rescue and for the hooked survivor to realise they don't need to abandon the game just yet, at least some of the time. And either way it still grants the remaining survivors more time with a hooked survivor serving as a potential distraction for the killer.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642623#Comment_3642623
See, that's why you should probably pay attention to the overall argument, because yes there is more context.
The Blindness on Ultimate Weapon only annoys survivors, that's why it's fair to suggest removing it.
Take some other recent perks with multiple effects- Alien Instinct, and Friends Til The End.
These are both perks with a very similar design to Ultimate Weapon - they're information perks which also apply a status effect. For Alien Instinct, it's Oblivious, and for FTTE, it's Exposed. Both of these status effects are ones that it makes mechanical sense to apply at this time- the injured survivor is going to have to pay more attention to know you're coming, and the Obsession is going to need to be more careful too since they're vulnerable to a one-hit down.
Compare that to Ultimate Weapon. How does the killer actively utilise the Blindness when it procs? What is the throughline between revealing a survivor's location, and turning off that survivor's aura perks? You could maybe make an argument about specific perks that could be relevant in that scenario, like Windows or Dark Sense, but it's very much dependant on that survivor having brought those perks, and isn't something the killer's going to get feedback on if it's working. From the killer's perspective, the Blindness is a freebie that may or may not be doing anything, not one part of a coherent whole when it comes to perk design. From the survivor's perspective, multiple perks that might not even be relevant to the situation were just turned off for thirty seconds.
Whatever the original intent was behind adding Blindness, it currently only exists to be an annoyance, that's it. Preventing aura reading doesn't just affect perks like Windows, or even niche off-meta picks like I described elsewhere in the thread, it's also something that (indirectly) harms solo queue more than SWF since a lot of the good perks for solo are ones that reveal teammate auras + not being able to see slugged survivors is more impactful when there's no communication.
See how this isn't at all just "describing every perk", even if you don't agree with me?
That's a lot of words to say you don't understand the value of Windows. You use UW to find close by survivors and initiate a chase... which can really drag on when survivors have Windows.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642594#Comment_3642594
Yes, taking those few words out of the context of the overall argument does make the argument a lot weaker.
Yes that is something people can say when a part of their post is quoted but not the whole thing, except your "overall argument" didn't provide any additional context.
You feel inconvenienced by a killer perk. Killer perks are designed to inconvenience survivors.
It is possible to have a discussion about relative balance of this perk, bit it seems all anyone wants to do is whine about it even existing.
It has counterplay. There are other comparable perks. Are those perks similarly problematic? If not, why?
Such as:
@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642598#Comment_3642598
PR works on one gen, UW+DMS on all. I am suprised you are not aware of this combo.
Pain Res works on the exact gen you want it to work on. UW works on the gens within your terror radius.
That is a discussion point. Not "it's not fair that killers get a perk that stops me reading auras"
I don't even disagree that it could lose the Blindness effect and be just fine. But removing it because "it's an annoyance" isn't the argument you think it is.
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642086#Comment_3642086
Works with dead mans switch, thats the problem.
Seems like extra steps when you can just use Pain Res instead.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642560#Comment_3642560
So, I know you're not actually interested in a conversation, but just for the record for anyone else watching:
Wanting to, and needing to, are different things. Ultimate Weapon making it harder to do a thing you want to do for no real reason, as a secondary byproduct of a perk that the killer is running for a completely different reason, is an unnecessary annoyance you could easily remove without any problem.
"Making something you want to do harder"
You've just described every perk in the game.
And there are several perks that do multiple things.
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@Dogma_loki said:
All these people constantly parroting that UW is perfectly fine are the same ones crying non stop about how broke and op MFT was before it got nerfed.
No actually I argued that MFT was fine.
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Yeah, we can't make challenges too hard. If it takes more than a single game to pull it off, that's just unacceptable.
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@AzshFayd said:
I feel like running calm spirit wouldn't be a problem for people if it didn't have that incredibly idiotic & unnecessary drawback
It doesn't have any drawback if you don't open chests, which most never do.
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@RhysVMT said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642230#Comment_3642230
THE KILLER HAS TO FIND A LOCKER I CANNOT BROTHER
Also yeah run calm spirit that gutted borderline detrimental perk JUST IN CASE the killer has his press space bar for wall hacks perk on, how didn't I think of that
If Distortion is a valid counter to aura perks, then why is Calm Spirit not a valid counter to UW?
Can you explain that double standard?
There are multiple aura perks, but there are also mtiple perks/powers that make survivors scream.
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@PogbertChamperson said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642086#Comment_3642086
Darkness revealed is incredibly map dependent and can be blocked by distortion and OTR. Darkness suffers from being incredibly inconsistent.
And UW can be blocked by Calm Spirit, as well as being proximity dependant (inside ther terror radius) and map dependent) killer has to find a locker to activate it.
Also, DR's "6m around every locker on the map" is greater coverage than UW's "32m around me", and can be situationally more useful, as lockers are often close to gens.
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@ReverseVelocity said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642086#Comment_3642086
UW lasts for 30 seconds, Darkness Revealed lasts for 5.
You scream for 30 seconds?
A scream, with a bubble notification that snapshots a survivors location in a single moment, is actually far less useful info than an aura that lasts for 5 seconds (7 with LP) that the survivor is unaware of.
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@RhysVMT said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3642042#Comment_3642042
you cannot be serious
What is the counterplay to every aura perk?
You just hate Ultimate Weapon because you're aware of it's existence when you scream.
Why is UW a problem but Darkness Revealed isn't?
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@Yatol said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3641558#Comment_3641558
just kill them and end the match, where is the punishment?
Have you ever played against bots?
They have permanent wall hacks and perfect pathing, making them a nightmare to chase.
They likely won't do gens or unhooks very efficiently, but it'll be a very long, boring drawn out game.
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His box can become a 'damned if you do damned if you don't', endless yoyo of suffering that prevents survivors making any progress, and you as the killer don't necessarily need to do anything about it to benefit from that effect. Pinhead is passively frustrating, you can play the nicest pinhead game possible and survivors can still have a terrible experience. He is the icon of sadomasochism, and you need to be a masochist to enjoy playing against him.
By comparison, Pig has to go out of her way to harrass a survivor for her power to be toxic.
I'm not sure how Pyramid Head and Ghostface are toxic at all...
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What is forcing you to use flashlights exactly?
A flashlight specific perk that you are free to not use?
Edit: oh you mean the Alan Wake specific challenge? The one that also requires you to spend money on Alan Wake? But the issue is flashlights?
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Have you considered running Borrowed Time?
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@apathyinc said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3641160#Comment_3641160
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3641240#Comment_3641240
Players who repeatedly DC get a penalty. But if someone is intentionally doing something that is causing other players to DC they should be banned or at the very least have to play against bots instead of people.
Ok, so why the double standard for survivors who cause killers to DC?
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@apathyinc said:
No, some people live their life by cheating, trolling, and making the game miserable for other players. Sometimes this causes DCing to be the best option against them. Make them continue to play their games out against bots so real players don't have to deal with that horseshit.
When the killer DCs, all survivors automatically escape.
So it's ok for survivors to cheat?
Survivors also DC for stupid reasons like:
- I got found by the killer first.
- The killer had tinkerer.
- My flashlight save didn't work.
- My head on play didn't work.
- I got hooked before I charged Deliverance/Renewal.
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After a bunch of awful survivor games with tryhard killers today, I can say with confidence that the issue is not Grim Embrace.
The issue is DMS.
Whether it's been with Pain Res or Grim Embrace, or on it's own, DMS has been the main hurdle in getting gens done. Particularly because every killer wants to return to the gen immediately after an unhook.
Grim Embrace on it's own isn't too bad, and with DMS it actually led to the most bearable case of DMS tonight. When the killer knows where to go, DMS is a nightmare, and GE obscures where the target gen is, so it actually helps.
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3640629#Comment_3640629
The problem I'm noticing is that Survivors being pushed off gens before they can stop the regression event and/or greeding the gen to stop the regression, then going down because the Killer was able to close the distance, is happening with far more frequency than games in which the Killer just locks down a 3-gen.
It's a net negative for the Survivors--the average match for Survivors has become more difficult, at the expense of being aided against 3-gen situations.
I follow all the logic that led us to this point, but my observation thus far has been that Survivors got the short end of the stick here.
It's a net negative for survivors who like to tap gens in view of the killer.
There are various ways around it, including hiding nearby, waiting for the killer to leave, then halting the regression.
If this results in more regression, that's the point. The killer cant just keep kicking it, so they need more value out of their kicks. It's still only 25% of repair speed though.
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@anarchy753 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3639900#Comment_3639900
Grim Embrace stops gens for 76 seconds. I really have no problem with Grim Embrace alone. DMS bumping every 12 second block up to a 30 second block is the problem.
Then you add Pain Resonance, so you can't just wait until the hook is done to let go and wait out GE, because the pop will trigger DMS anyway. So to "wait out" Grim Embrace, you're waiting out the carry time and the grim embrace time, at which point you may as well have just let it get DMSed.
As Pain Resonance activates at the start of the animation, you can't just let go of a gen with perfect timing unless you have SWF to tell you when.
It sounds like PR + DMS is the bigger problem.
GE blocks for 12 seconds and is avoidable. The fact that it triggers on every gen is neither here nor there if those gens aren't being repaired. PR is unavoidable and forces DMS.
Why is this suddenly a problem when PR + DMS has existed for ages?
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If I load into a lobby with four survivors readied up instantly.
It means I've been backfilled, no matchmaking has occurred. I'm just as likely facing low level solos as I am a bully squad. Someone is going to have a bad time.
Dodging that lobby shifts the problem to someone else, but at least it doesn't cause any new ones.
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@Bafugaboo said:
I have been purposefully not tunneling and seen immense boosts to both bp and progression in tiers. That being said I think a change that could help is depreciating returns on same survivor hooks. This way if they tunnel they would not gain as much in bp or tier progression. It is not a perfect answer, but at least a suggestion.
I think a couple of things should happen.
Firstly, since they increased to BP caps, reaching 10k in the Sacrifice category has been unreasonably tricky. They could fix this by reintroducing a similar mechanism to old BBQ. Each time a survivor is hooked for the first time, the killer scores a bonus 500 BP.
That's not massive, but if you are aiming for max BP, you're better off ensuring everyone is hooked at least once before endgame.
Secondly, we have some niche perks that lose their effect once a survivor is sacrificed. I believe the majority of meta slowdown perks should have this effect. Once a survivor has been sacrificed, slowdown is not strictly as necessary. You've either reduced the survivors to 3 with multiple gens left to repair, which is it's own slowdown, or you're near endgame and the slowdown has depreciating returns. But the knowledge that killing a survivor will essentially remove one of your perks can be a powerful incentive, and give the remaining survivors an actual chance. With the remaining survivors more likely to escape, tunneling becomes less rewarding.
This would be fitting for perks like Pain Res, DMS, or Grim Embrace which proc on hooks anyway.
Ruin had this, but wasn't meta, and Thanatophobia has this indirectly by having it's greatest value tied to having four survivors in game.
Pentimento could also do this, or have a backup effect once survivors get eliminated. Perhaps each eliminated survivor knocks the effects down one by one, so one survivor sacrificed makes one Penti totem inert but two still slow healing, and so on.
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@Brimp said:
MMR is. You try to play the game normally as killer and more often then not by the time you get first hook 3 gens are done leading you to tunneling on the next match.
Then your MMR is too high, and you shouldn't be tunneling, so your MMR can have a chance to decrease.
MMR exists to help ensure everyone has a roughly 50% chance to 'win'. (The game is asymmetrical so it actually works out to be about 45/55 but that's another topic) It's a pvp game, one side wins, the other side loses, that's how pvp works.
But dbd players aren't content with a 50% win rate and have to win all the time whatever the cost. So they employ cheap/crutch tactics, inflate their MMR, and get stuck in a spiral of suffering.
For anyone who doesn't tunnel, tunneling isn't necessary, because they don't have sky-high MMR.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3638665#Comment_3638665
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3638962#Comment_3638962
I'm curious about people who say they haven't heard of the game. Are you not into horror games? Only asking because if someone was into horror games I would be surprised they haven't heard of the game.
For me, all I knew is it was an Xbox exclusive. So no reason to care any further.
I know it's no longer exclusive but it never came up on my radar again.
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I've only played killer since, and I've seen plenty, probably an average of one per game. Also 50% of survivors using flashlights.
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Again, if only the highest Haste value was in effect, then Haste perks in general could afford to be more effective.
I love Haste perks, I like using multiple of themn but the options are just too limited.
Haste is already conditional in most cases, and it would work out better to be able to equip multiple Haste perks that were powerful, but active at different times. Then to have to worry about 4 different haste effects stacking, and making them all weak AND conditional.
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There definitely needs to be more leeway for new players.
A longer period of dead-low MMR before they start to climb. Complete lock out of being matched with mid-high MMR killers if playing solo, even when it comes to backfilling. The option to conitue playing tutorial matches against bot killers (including Wraith, Billy and Huntress). And a new player +100% Bloodpoint and EXP bonus.
All of which should last for something like your first 30 solo games in each role. Or first 10 hours of play time, whichever is the longest.
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As a console player, it's better for me if they don't cleanse. But I won't complain if I get to use Corrupt Purge, it can be more fun, it can sometimes be frustrating though, it seems so easy to dodge.
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I've seen the aura of NOED totems recently. If it only happens sometimes, I'm not sure how you could verify that it's occurred unless you're looking at the totem and can test to see if you can see the aura. If you simply "can't find it" then you might just not be close enough to it.
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@Hexling said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3637686#Comment_3637686
That's incorrect just off of human nature and incentive for winning if you are put up against a challenge you try harder its basic psychology for a lot of people.
Literally nobody is wanting to go against Blights and bully squads every single match. And anyone wanting 'a challenge' wouldn't be cheating.
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MMR is already less of a reason to sweat.
You can't see your MMR, you can't prove what MMR you're at, you can't show it off. All it does is give you tougher matches.
Wanting higher MMR is completely irrational.
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I guess we should remove Bloodlust as well then.
Some things created for a certain reason, turn out to be just fine outside of that reason too.
5% repair speed is barely noticeable, and if you think seeing the 3 closest gens is in any way a problem...
If genrushing is a problem, you're better off looking to Resilience and Toolboxes for nerf targets.
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Ghostface, Pig, Myers (particularly scratched mirror), Demogorgon, Chucky.