Seraphor
Seraphor
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If the red team scores 5 goals before the blue teams scores 1, should the blue team be given 4 goals for free?
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Ghostface add on:
- You are unable to mark survivors by stalking them.
- Survivors become marked when they reveal you.
Xenomorph add on:
- You become undetectable while in crawler mode.
- When first detected by a given flame turret, you move 4% faster for 5 seconds.
- Your tail attack range is reduced to 2 meters.
The perfect trolling add on for the trolling killer, and the changes to make Xenomorph the stealth/ambush killer I wish it could be.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699786#Comment_3699786
"Oh boy I just saw this guy get unhooked, that's not tunneling though, he should've just gotten away"
I don't… have you ever actually played DBD?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699774#Comment_3699774
You could make a case for the others, maybe, but the first one is literally just tunneling.
How long should the killer intentionally avoid the last unhooked survivor without finding any others before it ceases to be tunneling?
I mean I tend to do so when it feels unfair, but there is a point where the killer cannot afford to keep fruitlessly running around pretending they don't see the crying injured survivor that's right in front of them.
Ultimately survivors can't be protected against their own mistakes, even when it's just 'dumb luck' of running into the killer by accident.
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@WolfyWood said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699651#Comment_3699651
These are all tunneling though?
I think people need to stop bringing in morality to excuse tunneling, it should be very clear to anyone intelligent that this isn't a moral dilemma and that killer players aren't felons for wanting to play to win.
The entire point is that a recently unhooked survivor shouldn't be such an obvious choice of target for a killer who wants to win. That is the entire problem.
And only being borderline unhookable until they do something conspicuous will truly kill tunneling, obviously remove collision to prevent weaponizing it too.
Having such a narrow definition of tunneling is counterproductive because the solution needs to be broadly applicable or it's useless.
Having such a wide definition of tunneling is equally counterproductive.
If everything a killer can possibly do counts as tunneling, what can you possibly propose to 'fix' it? Prevent people playing killer?
2. Killer hooks a survivor and leaves. Finds and hooks another survivor. First survivor is unhooked so killer returns to the first hook.
B. The unhooked survivor bodyblocks with a weaponised Endurance, or to 'make use' of DS.
This can 'feel like' tunneling to the survivor, but this is an example of the killer going out of their way to not tunnel. They have chased, downed and hooked a survivor in the mean time, but the first hooked survivor was not rescued timely. They have had to return to where survivors are (the hook) and then attempted to go for the unhooker instead of the unhooked, yet they have been prevented from doing so.
This is not a hypothetical either. I've done this. As someone who actively avoids tunneling and usually tries to 2-hook everyone before eliminating anyone where possible, I've been in this situation, and ended up accused of tunneling.
This is why the survivor perspective cannot be used to define tunneling. It means everything is tunneling. So it's no wonder it's so prevalent when it's every action a killer can take.
The definition of tunneling cannot be so wide that the killers only recourse is to throw the game. It needs to be narrow enough that it leaves room for both survivors to counter it with good, smart plays (distracting the killer, leaving the hook, hiding, making distance, etc.) and room for the killer to exploit the survivors failure to do so.
No less is expected for the other side. We don't call "repairing a gen to 100% in one go "genrushing". We don't expect survivors to repair 50% of a gen then leave to look for a totem or chest out of repect for the killer.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699651#Comment_3699651
Others may believe different but I don’t think it matters if a killer ‘intends’ to tunnel when they tunnel. Tunneling is a deliberate action regardless of the circumstance because killers aren’t bots; they know which survivors they’ve recently targeted (barring every survivor wearing identical cosmetics). If you’re a tunneling apologist, which you may well be, that’s fine. But don’t @ me with some nonsense, Seraphor.
Please explain how my post is nonsense.
Are you saying killers should intentionally avoid hittings survivors even in circumstances where said survivor is throwing themselves at them?
Is it still tunneling when the killer hooks survivor A, then survivor B, then survivor A again?
Simple yes/no questions.
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I almost exclusively played Mirror Myers during the Blood Moon event so... sorry I guess?
I think the EGC stats are kinda pointless. EGC activates in basically every game, the only games it doesn't are 3K + hatch escape games before the last gen is repaired.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699389#Comment_3699389
Jund has a strict & myopic definition of tunneling. It’s kind of like the proxy camping vs face camping argument.
Tunneling to most people: hooking a survivor, going off to chase another survivor. The hooked survivor is unhooked. While I’m chasing another survivor I notice that unhooked survivor off doing something, so I break chase to go after them again specifically.
Tunneling to Jund: Hooking a survivor, proxy camping, then pursuing the unhooked survivor.
Both legitimate forms of tunneling but Jund appears to only consider the latter “true tunneling” and frames his poll in a way where only that definition could be used.
It's not "strict and myopic" to suggest that tunneling should be defined by "the killers intention to eliminate a survivor" as opposed to the survivors subjective experience of "getting hooked soon after being unhooked". It's the only way to differentiate between "killer instigated tunneling" and "survivor induced tunneling".
It's not always the killers intention to tunnel, or even awareness that they could be tunneling, even though the survivor feels they have been.
1. Killer hooks a survivor and leaves the hook. Looks for other survivors, finds no one. Unhook notification goes off, killer returns to the hook.
2. Killer hooks a survivor and leaves. Finds and hooks another survivor. First survivor is unhooked so killer returns to the first hook.
A. The unhooking survivor stealths away leaving the unhooked survivor injured and crying.
B. The unhooked survivor bodyblocks with a weaponised Endurance, or to 'make use' of DS.
Four combinations there to choose from, all can be interpreted as tunneling by the survivor, none of them are intentional, or with any purpose to 'eliminate a survivor early' they're simply hitting what is in front of them, and to avoid doing so would be tantamount to throwing the game, similar to if a survivor had the opportunity to complete a gen but instead decided to 'let the killer kick it and go away to leave it to regress' even if they could easily avoid it.
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@not_Queef said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/9AIUSM84ISL9/screenshot-2024-04-12-145826.png
Maybe I'm missing something but how is an average of 21-40% insignificant?
This was a poll based on self-reported prevalence (so according to the arguments he made in the video, not reliable in terms of magnitude, because survivors overestimate how much they get tunneled). However the purpose of the poll was to compare between different time periods.
So even though the actual figures may be skewed higher, they are consistent between time periods. It's purely to debunk any claims of "you probably got tunneled less because you play at x time, try playing at z time instead."
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@poinepp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699134#Comment_3699134
I mean by the time you leave the hook they wont sound a lot loud bc of the distance plus you already hear ear wrecking screams even now
They already extended screams once before. It was unbearable, and hitting them on the hook stops the scream.
I'm speaking from experience, not hypotheticals.
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And force me to hit everyone on hook to cut the screams short? No thanks.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697467#Comment_3697467
I remember that suggestion, was a great post. Was it you who created that as a discussion, or was that a random drop in a other thread?
I don't think I've mde a thread about it but I have suggested it before. Sure I can't be the only one though.
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Yeah... god pallets are only balanced because they work once.
I think there would have to be heavy limitations and investment to make this fair. Something like:
- Gain a token when unhooked/unhooking
- Only x tokens max per game. (2? 3?)
- Takes 30 seconds to rebuild.
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@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
I think there might be a solution to the tunneling problem.
1. Give the unhooked survivor invulnerability until the killer puts another survivor on a hook. To make this a little more fair on the killer, subsequent hits will put the survivor into a Deep Wound state, but it will never down the affected Survivor. Protection hits will count as a conspicous action, and remove the invulnerability. This will prevent survivor players from abusing it. Invulnerability is disabled once the killer has hooked all 4 survivors at least once.2. Invulnerability is not in effect during the End Game Collapse.
3. Killers who continues to tunnel one survivor despite invulnerability will suffer a permanent ramping Hindered effect, by 4% per hit.
- Yes, there need to be a punishment factor to encourage killers to not tunnel someone out as fast as possible.
Protection hits will count as a conspicous action, and remove the invulnerability.
This can't work.
If you are rescued by an injured survivor, and the killer immediately hits you, or hits you at any time while another injured survivor is close to you, that counts as a protection hit.
This would encourage tunneling. It would force the killer to go for the unhooked survivor immediately to ensure they don't get unlimited invulnerability.
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Yes
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
No good comes from map offering from either side and most of the time someone DC's during loading anyway.
Simple solution is to make them block a certain realm, as has been suggested many times. Sac Wards will need another purpose of course but I am sure something can be done with them.
Reversing map offerings would be no different. You could still get survivors banning the very few indoor maps to ensure they get an outdoor map.
Meanwhile indoor map offerings are useful for leveling the playingfield for stealth killers, and virtually non-negotiable for mirror myers.
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@GolbezGarlandGabrant said:
I refuse to play on Lery's and Swamp so map offerings it is for me.
Also survivors have no good offerings other than map offerings. Sure they can use BP but there's no assurance they'll get a decent payout for using it. If they reworked survivor offerings youxd probably see less map ones.
The problem is survivors can bring 4 offerings, so they need to be 1/4 as strong.
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@HerInfernalMajesty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697796#Comment_3697796
Oh wow I see. How interesting. Wait, so why the need for 5 of them instead of just 1 with random layouts like eyrie?
Presumably because the layout of the school building and road sections don't allow for many random variations. You'd just have a couple of filler tiles that could change and the two houses that could potentially swap places.
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@D0NN1ED4RK0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697969#Comment_3697969
imo if they stay the devs should try to disincentivize bringing map offerings
Like what they did with the GOJ map offering cause now it has a risky aspect of sending you to theater map instead of garden of joy
Exactly this. If every map offering had equal chances of going to survivor sided and killer sided variations, then the dice roll would be the same and it would be primarily for aesthetic or format (indoor/outdoor) differences.
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@WolfyWood said:
Can't agree with this one.
Killers should not be punished for being good enough to kill someone early.
Getting someone out early just needs to take more skill.
There's a difference between "being punished for succeeding" and successes being too rewarding to the point they inevitably result in a smowball effect.
There's a reason tunneling is so prevalent, and it's because it's too rewarding. That makes it w matter of balance, when perks or powers are too strong they get nerfed, base mechanics such as tunnelingshould get the same treatment. Nerfing overpowered elements isn't "punishment".
Tunneling should be rewarding, if done skillfully (targetting the weaker survivor for short chases) but not to the point that it eclipses non-tunnelling, and is always beneficial no matter how it's conducted.
But it's not an easy fix, especially as it can't be done in a way that prevents tunneling in any situation, or can be weaponised by survivors.
The best solution I can think of, is dynamic gen speed scaling:
- Each completed gen reduces repair speeds by 5%.
- Each eliminated survivor increases gen speeds by 10%.
This serves as a snowball dampener for both tunneling and gen rushing. The killer will still be at an advantage if they tunnel, so they're not "punished", it's just not as much of an advantage, and if they don't tunnel effectively and take too long, then it can potentially mitigate the snowball and allow survivors to effectively genrush in retaliation.
If survivors are able to effectively counter tunneling, then it becomes less reliable, and therefore less prevalent.
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@Sandt1985 said:
I want to push back on a hook stage perk. I'd love a perk where I could remove a hook stage on a survivor, and in return, I gain a hook state.
Same.
A perk where; If the other survivor is on death hook, and you have no hooks, while healing them you can take a hookstage from them.
So it works once per game, and between all four survivors only a potential 2 times. (A to B, and C to D)
However, it should come in conjunction with allowing killers to see hookstages for each survivor on the HUD.
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@Eelanos said:
It's so interesting seeing people discuss this stuff. When the anti-slugging / insta-mori PTB happened this was an issue and the update had to be canned, but when Billy can do it, it's fine and it's exploiting enemy mistakes.
To this day I can't believe the only people risking anything when a slug happens is the survivors instead of the killers. What's the point of hooks anyway.
When there are this many mistakes, you can't ingore their impact.
For example, If a group of survivors decide to hook bomb and body block the killer to prevent a hook, all survivors in one place tanking hits, then they all get slugged in one spot, they brought it on themselves, and no amount of "anti-slug mechanics" could possibly mitigate this without absolutely destroying killers in games that aren't thrown this way.
This game was similarly a perfect storm of mistakes. Hesitating and staying close to downed survivors, not using the resources available to maintain distance at or between loops, despite going against an instadown killer.
If the killer played this recklessly by say tunnelling one survivor who was impossible to catch, they'd get wrecked by 3 gens popping at once before their first hook. That would also be a huge mistake on the killers side, not "a problem with gen speeds", and you have to acknowledge that the mistake was the issue.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697109#Comment_3697109
I don't bother with Deja Vu as I feel that once you have played enough you know the gens to get rid of first such as mid gens, unsafe ones and NOT the edge map gens.
Some killers will try to force a 3 gen which is a very boring tactic of course but eventually they will have to take chase and they can only kick gens so much now thankfully. It can create a long and tedious match but still winnable
Knowing where gens spawn is all well and good until you get other survivors actively working against your efforts to prevent a 3 gen. Then it really helps to have real time updates of the worst possible 3 gens so you can at least minimise the impact. That's why I run Deja Vu, and 6% doesn't hurt.
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@GolbezGarlandGabrant said:
I actually had this thought the other day. On killrates and how something like a low skill requirement Wraith can achieve the same results as someone who requires more like Singularity
There's also no incentive to get better because things just get balanced out anyway.
But that's exactly what you'd expect.
If a killer is harder to play, more people will be bad at playing them, so they'd have a lower kill rate. This is why Nurse has a low kill rate.
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Yes? That's how they work.
Survivors can only interact with portals once they've been activated by travelling through them.
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If anything the dc penalty has only stopped me from playing the game ... the occasional rage ( it happens lol)
That's the point. If you're tilted enough to ragequit, you need a timeout to stop you ruining other peoples games.
Them can clearly remove the penalties they did it for the Chinese new year event last year if I’m not mistaken and I saw no issue with that
Maybe you didn't, but everyone else did.
They have disabled DC penalties on multiple occasions, and every time the game became unplayable because there would be DCs virtually every single game. When players are given the option to quit for free instead of losing, why would they ever stick around to lose?
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I remain convinced that when they tested the finisher mori with basekit Unbreakable, they got the requirements backwards.
Instead of "everyone can pick themselves up whenever" and "when everyone is down everyone dies", it should be…
When everyone is in the dying state or hooked (i.e. no survivors standing) then everyone gains the ability to pick themselves up from the dying state.
This means only if every remaining survivor is slugged, one single survivor is able to get back up. Once that survivor is up the ability to do so deactivates for the remaining survivors. Unless they go back down.
This means it only comes into play when the killer slugs everyone, or slugs the final 2 for a 4K. Making it unviable to do so unless all/both survivors are right next to each other.
Making it similarly prohibitive to tunneling as the AFC is to camping, only in the extremes, leaving "slugging for pressure" a fair and viable tactic in regular playstyles.
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@Neaxolotl said:
Honestly I don't even believe sloppy nerf were needed at all, that perk was hardly strong despite being meta
Agreed. I think putting a time limit on Mangled is neither here nor there, but the time limit on Haemorrhage as well basically makes the effect worthless.
The most it needed is to deactivate on hook. So it remains a useful tool for hit and run, but doesn't completely negate perks like Resurgence.
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@Deepie said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696269#Comment_3696269
It can be in good humour too.
It infact can, however this doesn't change the fact that 90% of the time it happens, it is due to the survivor making fun of the killer, taunting the killer's inefficiency or a lack of skill, which in many cases, either creates a toxic killer, or demotivates them and pushes them away from playing the game.
I've noticed from a lot of games where survivors interact with me as a killer, they are much more likely to do it to frusturate me rather than do it playfully. And the difference between the two are obvious in most cases. When the survivor is facing their back when they are teabagging, they emit the feeling they are taunting the killer for being slow or careless. If they teabag towards the killer, they are sharing a funny moment's humour or expressing their proudness of themselves for something they did. Not a lot of funny things happen in a murdering horror game, and considering the killer is supossed to chase down and kill the survivors as an objective, their mindset is less likely to be taking in the emotes of the survivors as friendly expressions. I'm saying this from my own and my friends' perspectives that I have spectated playing killer. Only time the survivors make the killer feel like they are doing it in a friendly manner is in a custom game with friends, because they know each other and are friends, they are doing it for the fun, not for the competition. Which is a different case for when you are playing with 4 people you don't know and your objective is to get them out of the game as soon as possible.
however this doesn't change the fact that 90% of the time it happens, it is due to the survivor making fun of the killer, taunting the killer's inefficiency or a lack of skill
Are you sure about this or are you assuming?
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696247#Comment_3696247
This is not toxicity.
Hmm, what do you consider as toxicity?
This can only offend you if you choose it to.
That's true, even if it is toxicity…
It becomes toxic, based on intention of the player. If whole purpose is to annoy other side, I would say it's toxic.
Which you cannot possibly know.
Unless you engage in chat afterwards, you can't know the intentions of the person teabagging or hitting on hook. It doesn't have to be out of hate. It can be in good humour too.
This is also why I play Ghostface, so I can teabag back and we can all have a good time.
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@VomitMommy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696242#Comment_3696242
I am fine with nerfing end game for killer, if you nerf early game for survivors too.
I'd rather nerf endgame for both. See my comment above.
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Toxicity is everywhere, teabagging at exit gates, nodding and forward-backward movement on knocked survivors, hitting on hook,
This is not toxicity. This can only offend you if you choose it to. They're simply emotes, actions that the games allows everyone to do for expression or communication, and they don't always mean something offensive.
There used to be a thing called rivalry banter, where people could express their enjoyment at beating their opponent in good humour, and in turn take their oponents celebrations in stride.
But nowadays everyone assumes if someone is addressing them via the internet it must be a dire insult in some way.
slowing down crouching animations … not being able to crouch at all at exit gates
Not possible or ever going to happen. Crouching is a necessary gameplay mechanic for dodging projectile attacks and hiding behind cover. You slow this down and you drastically nerf survivors.
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@VomitMommy said:
Or let survivors to bleed out faster, so neither side can waste time?
The hell is this logic. Because on side can waste my time, I want to be able to waste time too?
It's not like survivors are not able to waste killer's time, right? Like waiting next to an exit gate…
Or simply hiding as last two survivors and refuse to even try work on gens.
I would rather try to fix current ways how to waste time then create more of them.
The last 2 survivors hide because it's almost guaranteed that the first one found is damned and the last one only has a chance if they hide and then find the hatch. It's an inevitable snowball.
It would be better if the snowball didn't exist and 4Ks (and conversely 0Ks) were much more difficult to obtain.
As it stands, and killer can basically guarantee a 3K becomes a 4K by wasting time.
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It would be a pretty effective deterent to slugging for the 4K if the final survivor had a second chance in any condition, whether they're hooked on first stage (guaranteed unhook) or in the dying state (basekit Unbreakable). It would mean that no matter how the killer dragged out their hunt for the final 2 survivors, they would have to re-catch whoever they left til last.
It would decrease the number of 4Ks in general, by a little bit (after all the hatch race still favours the killer), but then I'm of the position that 0Ks and 4Ks should be extreme outliers, with most games being either a 1K, 2K or 3K (with hatch escape or otherwise).
I'd also like there to be a similar mechanic to help the killer secure at least one kill most of the time in the name of balance. It would be funny if the exit gates only allowed 3 survivors out, then blocked for 30 seconds. Forcing the final survivor to find hatch or evade the killer for that time. Would cut down the exitgate teabagging too as 'the last one out is a rotten egg'.
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If you want to heavily nerf the perk, sure.
Its complete reversal of an important killer tool is balanced by the fact that it doesn't work 100% all the time.
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All good points.
Additionally, I think Daily Rituals need to be more worthwhile. Increase their BP by 50%, and add in some Iridescent Shards on top.
Secondly, provide more generic rituals. It's all fine and dandy geting a "do specific thing as specific survivor" because survivors are just skins. But when you've unlocked virtually every killer and you only play half a dozen of them, it can get really irritating having to trash them all the time. Something like "hook all survivors once in a trial" and "kick generators 10 times" etc.
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At this point, I'd rather see Spine Chill reworked into a light anti-aura perk.
Activates for 5 seconds each time your aura is revealed. Has a 15 second cooldown.
This tells you the killer can see you, not necessarily that the killer does see you, is looking at you, or that they're close.
This doesn't then exclusively hard-counter just stealth killers, it's useful but not OP against many killers who may be using aura/undetectable perks, of which we have a lot more these days. It would be like a lighter, generic Distortion.
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You know other killers can do this much easier by following at full speed and attacking the survivor instead of slowly waiting for 2.5 minutes.
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@Nazzzak said:
I did it when it was 3 missed hits. Find a good small structure to run around, pressing yourself as close to it as possible. The killer will typically try a basic hit in that scenario and sometimes they'll miss as the distance can be hard to gauge. I got it against a Singularity, but came close against a Wraith and Chucky (2 missed hits).
This is very lucky. You can usually score one missed hit fairly easily but then the killer regains their sense of distance and doesn't make the same mistake again.
But it's been changed to one missed attack now anyway, so I've got it.
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@ImWinston said:
- the only thing I can't stand (besides slugging for no reason) is when the killer mimes "sexual acts" on the survivor on the floor... I don't understand how the T-bag is considered toxic, but dragging Thalita onto Badam's mattress is fun and "normal" (I'm a man)
They're both equally as toxic. Which is to say barely at all unless you decide to take it that way. But survivors get away with repeatedly crouching all the time, so I don't see why it should be a problem for killers to move forward and then move backwards.
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Some kind of Killer vs. Killer mode would be cool. But I'd like it to be two different killers facing off. Not sure how it would work and I'm not sold on this 2v8 thing everyone's been clamouring about for years.
I think I'd rather something like 2 killers v 5 survivors, but survivors have an edge somehow to offset it, like everyone has basekit Iron Will and Decisive Strike after every hook. First killer to get to 3 kills wins. If the survivors power the exits, then it's the first killer to close the hatch.
Besides both times we've had unique game modes the survivor queues have taken aaages. 2v5 would help offset that.
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Is EWI actually 0 meters?
EWI has Undetectable, which hides the terror radius.
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Survivors may be trying to actually do things. There are many actions and challenges that are best or only done during EGC.
You could be trying to find the hatch for your 'escape through the hatch' challenge, or trying to grab a green glyph that was only highlighted as the gates opened. But the killer abandons the game and ends it before you can.
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@OrangeBear said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691194#Comment_3691194
Well i've tried this before but it doesn't work for me. I don't feel comfortable deluding (for lack of a better word) myself like that. So i just choose to work with that the intent is to be disrespectful, which i truly believe, and that it does make me feel bad.
But i appreciate the sentimentIt is a bit of fallacy to believe "teabagging" is purely about disrespect though.
The term "teabagging" obviously has negative connotations, but the reality is that it's the only method of expression.
It's more accurate to say it is the "I am excited and I want to communicate it" button.
Survivors use it to thank each other, to tease each other. It can be used to say "you suck at killing me" but it's also used as just a "yay I won".
You can celebrate a victory without it being disrespectful. And you can have banter with your opponents without it being disrespectful.
I play Ghostface, and often teabag back at the survivors, all in good fun. I play Pig and "roar laugh" at them to say "got you there" in good humour.
You are choosing to believe they mean disrespect. You are creating your own demons. That's also delusion.
Sometimes it may be disrespectful, I'd like to think I can usually tell when that's the case, usually it is when it's directly after a pallet stun for example. But the truth is a lot of the time you can't. At the exit gates is probably the most ambiguous example.
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April fools Marioneo
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I'd rather they look at equalising BP scores between roles/killers.
Some killers gain more deviousness than othersn some killers rely more of stealth, range or hit and run so they get less chase points.
Some killers powers allow more survivor interaction so you score more BP that way, others can down you instantly so no chase or boldness points.
And of course survivors still earn less on average than killers in general.
Rather that boosting BP across the board, simply bring all of this discrepancy up to the same level as the current highest earners.
I had an incredible game against a huntress yesterday, repaired multiple gens, several hook rescues and heals. But because we were all hit at range, no chases, no pallet stuns. What would have been a 25k+ game against other killers was a 15k game against Huntress.
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@TieBreaker said:
A voluntary system where survivors can give up a hook state to bolster someone who is being tunneled would be good. That way a person who is throwing can't suck up everyone's hook states. Some players might be selfish, but it would be their best interest to keep a tunneled survivor alive, as that's free time to do gens and escape.
This is what I think should happen too.
Probably not a basekit feature, but a perk or even a medkit add on.
When healing a survivor you press the secondary button to trade one hookstate. Only works if they're on death hook and you haven't been hooked yet. And it can only work once per survivor, so only twice per game (survivor A to B, survivor C to D).
It should have a telegraph too so the killer knows. Or just give killers the hookstates in the HUD.
This could give up to 2 survivors 4 hookstates, which would greatly impact tunneling.
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Imagine being stuck on a hook for 8 minutes... how fun.
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@DBD78 said:
They would never punish someone for doing what they are supposed to do, killing. Would survivors be punished for doing gens? Very strange. Survivors have basekit BT now and there are perks like DS and OFTR to help also just like killers have gen regression. That is enough.
Survivors are punished for doing gens.
If you refuse to let go of a gen while your team mate is on the hook, they die and your chances of survival go down.
If you refuse to let go of a gen while the killer is coming towards you, you'll get hit or even hooked.
The idea is that a similar trade off exists for tunneling. That by focusing down one survivor, you lose pressure on the others who are free to repair gens. This trade off is what allows tunneling to be a valid and fair tactic.
The problem is this trade off isn't anywhere near as equivalent, and typically isn't enough of a factor to prevent a snowball and a guarantee d4K.
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@Moonras2 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3690094#Comment_3690094
Sorry for the wall of text lol it started out short and kept going.
At one time survivors did have something similar, just not basekit. The problem was they could be used in the beginning of the game just like tunneling, except they were stronger in working too quickly. Old BNP's. While I think they deserved a nerf, they were one of the things survivors had that could be used late game to turn a game around, or to combat tunneling. Though back then there were a lot of things that could help with that.
I think a comeback mechanic could be good for both sides but both should have heavy consequences at the beginning of the game if using it. I just don't really have any good ideas on that ATM that wouldn't be abuseable.
Punishing early game pushing could possibly help. Something like, putting the same person into multiple hook stages in a row, could increase the speed at which gens are done by a significant factor, for each hook stage. The penalty could be removed when a separate survivor is hooked, not downed, because they'd just slug the person trying to help someone who is being tunneled. If survivors leave someone on the hook until second stage to force the penalty on a killer, the 3 survivors not hooked will receive a speed debuff as consequence. They will lose the debuff after being downed. This could also be a gen speed debuff or aura's shown as well.
For survivors, completing one gen could add a significant slowdown penalty that gets heavier as they work on a second gen. While not on a gen the penalty will begin to lower. Doing a totem, chest, save, body block, heal, etc... could remove or lessen the penalty. This might help killers who have problems with 3 gens being done in the first chase. They would know survivors probably aren't running directly to another gen afterwards. If they did head straight to a gen they'd be basically fighting through a super version of dying light and thanataphobia. The penalty should also apply to everyone working on the gen, even if only one person has the penalty active.
I've always thought that repair speeds should scale dynamically with both survivors eliminated and gens completed.
Each completed gen decreases global repair speeds by 5%.
Each eliminated survivor increases global repair speeds by 10%.
This acts as a two-way snowball dampening mechanism for both tunneling and genrushing, and equalls out at 1 survivor/2 gens, and 2 survivors/4 gens.