Seraphor
Seraphor
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- Seraphor
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@Ohyakno said:
I feel like the lone idiot that doesn't mind map offerings. I'll use them once in a blue moon to exit corn map or rpd hell. They don't bother me when my opponents play them because it gives me an excuse to sweat, which is fun every once in a while.
Same. I think map offerings as a problem are vastly overblown. I've had too many cases where I've either decided against an offering, or been met with a sacrificial ward, but still ended up on the same map anyway, and/or played on a favoured map and lost/non-favoured map and won. That it really doesn't bother me in the slightest outside of freak instances of full boil over-sabo squads on Badham.
It's more of a psychological issue, and could be helped by making map offerings hidden. Additionally keep adding variations to realms so that no offering only includes one single map.
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Mechanically, there's no way Make Your Choice CAN activate on a self unhook. There's simply no unhooker for it to target.
Devour Hope shouldn't be countered, but again, mechanically, if the survivor unhooks while you're still in range, then Devour Hope cannot be activated.
Floods of Rage shouldn't have any problems though, it should still be showing everyone's else's auras.
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I haven't seen a Huntress struggle for a long time, almost every survivor game I play against her ends in multiple kills. They also end up being pretty miserable games due to sniper shots taking me completely off guard and generally going down without entering chase most of the time. Not to mention the low-effort proxy camping.
I feel like Huntress is in a similar ballpark as Nurse. Obviously not nearly to the same extent, but in the sense that her "average" kill rate is a product of lower-mmr Huntresses struggling while higher MMR Huntresses dominate their games. Particularly in the way that a skilled PC Huntress just has to run a couple aura perks and they can essentially just click on you from across the map and score a down.
So yes, I don't understand why she was buffed at all.
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I really don't understand the toolbox changes, and why Commodious is STILL the best toolbox instead of a purple one.
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@Hex_Ignored said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3729527#Comment_3729527
Because no one uses this throwing perk in normal games. Now that people are reminded that a perk that is actively detrimental exists, they are rightfully asking for this terrible perk to be changed. It's mere existence can ruin chaos shuffle games before they have even started.
Why can't niche/meme perks exist?
We get 3/6 new survivor perks every chapter, they can't all be meta, in fact we're lucky if we get one decent perk and 2 trash perks. Making some of them have niche effects that require specific setups, or straight up meme/challenge perks, is a neat way to make these trash perks actually useful.
Chaos Shuffle is it's own thing, and it's all in the name. No one should be taking games seriously in this game mode, those who do are the problem here.
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Instead of adding 5 new configurations of Coldwind, they could have added 5 nighttime variants of Coldwind. :(
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If they continue to add new maps to existing realms, like they have with Withered Isle and now Borgo (which I'm very happy about), then that'll take a lot of the 'power' out of map offerings. You won't be able to guarantee a x-sided map anymore.
Then that'll just leave a rework of Badham to give it greater variance between alternates and offerings won't be so problematic.
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I really feel they need to invest in a modest single player campaign to give new players more of a resource for learning in their own time.
As it stands you get handful of super basic tutorials plus a few bot games as/against trapper. For a game this mechanically indepth that's just not enough, it's barely more than the equivalent of "use the right joystick to turn the camera".
Yes there are custom games, but this isn't an option for survivors, and any new player wants to be earning BP as soon as possible.
There should be something along the lines of:
The Trials of the [Trapper] [Wraith] [Hillbilly] [Huntress] [Nurse] [Doctor]
In which you can play as/against each of these, on their home maps, for as many games as you like, and earn base level BP (so no offerings or event/role bonuses). Of course this means developing AI protocols for each of these killers.
While this wouldn't teach you things like Sadako's condemned, it would give you a much better grasp of 'the basics' plus an appreciation for how killers work differently, so that you're not overwhelmed when you do encounter a new killer like Sadako.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3728424#Comment_3728424
But whose fault is it that the female characters are so popular? That would be us, the playerbase, right?
So what should we do? Should we plan a week where we play no one but male Survivors? Maybe even extend it to the Killer side where we only play male Killers (or "genderless" ones like Demogorgon, Nemmy, Pyramid, etc.)?
Nope, we'd all have to buy up all the outfits for male characters to prove they're worth investing in.
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But many also value the items. I'm still burning through last years Terrormisu's, but I'm virtually out of anniversary medkits and toolboxes.
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It's a positive feedback loop.
- Female characters are popular.
- The most popular characters get more content.
- The characters with the most content increase in popularity.
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Only if the additional levels are just things like Bloodpoints and Iri Shards.
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Nothing against them as characters.
As far as preconceptions go, I second the impression that Renato's tend to be good players.
Design wise, absolute trash. 6 terrible perks to water down an already inflated perk pool. Should have been one single survivor with two distinct skins similar to Legion or the new DnD survivor.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3725023#Comment_3725023
Everything that increases or decreases things based on a percentage is additive, not multiplicative, but it is based on the "base" of that character.
So if a survivor has 5% haste, they gain 0.2 m/s but a killer will gain slightly more.
But if a survivor has say, a 7% haste from hope, and a 3% haste from MFT, they stack additively, so they stack off the base so its
4.0 + (4.0 * 0.07) + (4.0 * 0.03) = 4.4.
Or more simply, you can just add the percentages together, to get 10% haste, then do the calculation from there.
But killers do in fact gain it based on their base movement speed. You can see this in the wiki:
https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Movement_Speeds
Specifically this section here:
Everything that increases or decreases things based on a percentage is additive, not multiplicative, but it is based on the "base" of that character.
Small correction, though doesn't change your point here:
Anything that increases by percentage indeed does so additively. This is so increases don't multiply exponentially and trend to infinity.
However anything that decreases by percent does so multiplicatively. This is so decreases don't fall to zero.
In both cases they result in diminishing returns for stacking multiple instances of the same effect.
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I've said before, there should be a option similar to Sprint when in the dying state.
Hold run to move twice the speed, at the cost of double the health drain.
This gives the survivor the choice, and either way makes slugging more risky, you either lose the survivor to bleedout if you were planning to hook them, or it makes it more difficult to find them when they've crawled away.
Tenacity wouldn't be affected as it still offers simultaneously recovering.
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The dragon is the enemies we made along the way.
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There's bound to be far more than just 2 cosmetics. The fact they've even shown more than one in the ptb is unprecedented, likely to show off the ability to swap cosmetics betwen different gender/rarce models.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3718795#Comment_3718795
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3718859#Comment_3718859
To be fair, my friends, I don't think anyone expected such heavy restrictions right from the get go.
Replacing hooks with cages was a given, and we knew it would happen. But I am sure everyone expected to play the characters they like to play. Now it seems like you are basically screwed if you don't main any of the first 5 original killers (excluding Hag for some reason, even though she was here before Huntress).
The very reason why everyone wanted 2v8 was for killer duos. Yes, BHVR will changed the mode eventually, but its very first version won't have the one thing people wanted. I can understand the frustration.
I envisioned exactly these levels of limitations. Precisely why I always thought it was a terrible idea.
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@NobodyNamedGost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3719300#Comment_3719300
they’re not base kit. Only the yellow one is. Which means only the last survivor will see it. Unless the killer decides to let them go. You will see it for sure but rarely unless you’re the only survivor left every time.
Yes I know. You will still see them more often, especially if you spectate the remaining survivors.
I currently see them roughly every 50 games, now it'll be on average about every 12th game if you consider the killer getting a 4k on average every 3rd and that last survivor being you 1/4 of those times.
Meanwhile as killer, every time you 4k, you get a mori. That's huge.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3719293#Comment_3719293
How does making yellow mori basekit equate to deleting all the other mori offerings, possibly removing them from some of the most fun perks in the game (Devour/Rancor), and auto-ending matches where a crawling survivor could escape or be given hatch? I don't see anyone saying yellow mori basekit is a problem. The rest of the changes are.
What 'rest of changes'?
I don't see anything to suggest it's going to be automatic like the original finisher mori.
You 'use it' on the last survivor. It is just Cypress Mori.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
Whoever makes these decisions, I dont understand how they can be so out of touch. Im genuinely disheartened. :/
Making Cypress Mori basekit was one of the most requested ways to rework moris. BHVR are absolutely listening to feedback here.
I don't get the issue. "I never see mori's". Well now you'll see them more often, because they're basekit. And you won't need to sacrifice your BP bonus to use them.
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@Rogue11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3719160#Comment_3719160
Why does selling unique moris require eliminating rare exciting escape possibilities for survivors, and also removing offerings and perks that would actually make unique moris more likely to be seen and sold…? None of what I asked for is mutually exclusive with selling new moris. Hence why people are upset by the needless changes.
Making Cypress Mori basekit was actually one of the most requested methods of reworking the mori system after the failed mori finisher trial.
This is a case of BHVR listening to feedback.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3718835#Comment_3718835
As somebody who came into this game against their will (f13 refugee) I think Moris are the most interesting offerings :(
This suuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuucks
As someone who is a fan of moris, I think it's great that they've been made basekit so we'll see them more often, without having to run an offering for them.
Most killers would rather keep their perpetual BP offerings on than use a mori. Now we get the best of both.
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It was always going to happen this way. 2v8 as the game is currently can't work, but the community never shuts up about it so this is what we get.
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@Venusa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3718241#Comment_3718241
How? I'm not disagreeing or anything but trying to understand how those 2 are comparable or related to eachother at all.
Gen regression undoes the survivors primary objective. Survivors have spent time repairing a gen to near completion, and that progress is rolled back because they didn't reach the threshold of completing the gen.
Sabotage undoes the killers primary objective. The killer has spent time chasing, downing and carrying a survivor to a hook, and that progress is rolled back because they didn't reach the threshold of completing the hook.
For the record, flashy/pallet saves, DS, etc. are all in the same boat. You can compare them to how there are also various ways of undoing gen progress.
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The funny thing is sabotage is the survivor equivalent of stacking gen regression, which they're trying to nerf...
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RIP me I guess, I logged out yesterday with about 1.95 mil BP...
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@alpha5 said:
As long as Ruin is up Blastmine does not do anything to begin with. With Wiretap you might have a point.
But then being able to use Wiretap through Ruin would make Wiretap impossible to disable. It's one extreme to the other.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3717825#Comment_3717825
How is it OP if it turns off as soon as you enter chase or lose a health state?
As a frequent Myers and Ghostface player I can think of several reasons.
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Deja Vu of all things being vilified is crazy. +6% repair speed is nothing, it can save potentially 4 seconds on a gen under optimal conditions, but those 4 seconds can easily be wasted by any number of circumstances. Working on a gen with another survivor and you're only saving about 2.5 seconds, and if at any time the killer chases you off or regresses that gen, the boost is virtually inconsequential.
Considering there are toolboxes that can grant +80% repair speed for 40 charges, you're looking at an almost double speed repair for as long as 24 seconds, saving you around 16 seconds on a gen. Not 4s, or 2.5s, 16s.
Deja Vu is run almost entirely for it's info, because avoiding an accidental 3 gen is crucial.
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Yeah, pallets that are otherwise fair or mid become guaranteed hits for Chucky, which drastically alters map balance. He's far from the only killer who messes with map balance but it's still something that should be addressed.
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@MoNosEmpire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3716631#Comment_3716631
I don't think I would find it as bad rn if the map choices weren't horribly selected or laid out.
Since I know you've got a large amount of hours in this game, do you also know if the new cinema map is still in the game? I've played it twice since the update and haven't seen it since.
It is, but with as many maps as we have, getting any one particular map by chance is slim, and it shares an offering with Garden of Joy, so chances are survivors aren't playing that offering as much now.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3716313#Comment_3716313
I agree! Stacking gen speed perks can be brutally efficient. If regression is being hit, I can only logically assume BHVR will do so to gen speed perks. Logic always wins, right?
….right?
Not necessarily.
Stacking negatives (such as regression) is far more effective than stacking positive multipliers (such as gen speeds).
Subtracting 25% of a gens total progress followed by another 25% is always going to be minus 50% no matter how they stack.
However successive speed increases have diminishing returns. For example if you increase healing speed by 100% then a heal takes 8s instead of 16s. But if you increase by 200%, it doesn't subtract another 8s and make it instant, it makes it 4s.
Additionally, the various gen speed buffs are fairly small already. Deja Vu at 6% only saves 4 seconds off 90 under optimal conditions, Resilience is only 3% more than that, and Prove Thyself has already been nerfed recently. All of which lose value the more people are on the gen. The only truly significant repair buffs left that should be looked at are charge-stacked toolboxes, and BNPs.
What a lot of people think is 'gen rushing' is mostly just survivors being very efficient with their time, and could accomplish almost as much without gen speed perks anyway. It's a product of SWF coordination more than problematic perks.
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@MoNosEmpire said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3716624#Comment_3716624
I always thought it was to do with your MMR rating because when I play really good the game pits me against a Nurse which absolutely obliterates my team almost every time and when I play bad I get queue'd up against someone like freddy.
Yesterday night and today morning I went against huntress 4X in a row and to make it worse it's always on a map like haddonfield or one with 0 counterplay.
Nurse and Blight are perhaps the only killers whose prevalence has correlation with MMR, and maybe Freddy too but in the other direction.
So yes, a very high MMR might get ypu more of those.
But Huntress as far as I'm aware is relatively common at all skill levels.
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I don't agree that a nerf to the most powerful and prevalent perks in a category requires a compensatory buff. There are still a load of other viable gen slowdown perks that haven't been nerfed, and you are absolutely not forced to run Pop Pain Res to 'cope with gen speeds'.
If it were a truly universal nerf to gen slowdown that would be a different matter, but it's literally just 2 regression perks and 2 gen block perks. It's not the end of the world, you just need to stop being a metaslave.
That said, it woul be the ideal time to look at toolboxes, especially considering that they're adjusting sabo speeds too. At the very least Commodious and Wire Spool should be nerfed a little, so that a purple toolbox might actually be better than a green one.
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There's nothing to prevent you from matching with the same killers, there's either a lot of peplaying Huntress right now, or it's just random chance.
For the record, I also go against far more Huntresses than I'd like.
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I've never used Pop and I haven't run Pain Res since it lost it's info in 6.1. I play mainly M1 killers. My games are no more frustrating for it.
There are more than 2 viable perks in the game. You've chosen to become a meta slave. Chose not to be.
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Nerfs for the most powerful perks should happen, but I agree it would be nice if they came alongside some buffs for the weaker perks too. Don't even need to be drastic enough to push them to meta, just sonething to make them more appealing for those who do experiment a bit.
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Nerfs for the strongest mechanics have to happen (as opposed to buffing everything else) avoid power creep.
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Gen slowdown is a crutch that gets you undeserved wins, which then catapults you to high MMR where you can't cope without gen slowdown because you haven't developed the skills to play without slowdown. It's a self-fulfilling prophecy.
I've never needed significant gen slowdown. At most, Thrilling Tremors or Call of Brine, which come with info attached so I can pressure gens myself, which is how you're supposed to play.
Meanwhile every game I play against a killer with significant slowdown (usually Pop Pain Res, like 90% of the time) is an absolute massacre of a game that they probably would have done well in without the slowdown.
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I think if you love the game that you have to not love the community, because the community almost universally hate the game.
They hate playing killer, they hate playing survivor, they hate playing soloqueue, they hate playing against x killer, they hate getting caught first, they hate tunneling/camping killers, they hate other survivors, they hate not being able to DC without a penalty.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3713733#Comment_3713733
I've been running Deja Vu and Empathy with Alert for awhile now because I'm enjoying it so much. All that info coming in makes me feel alot less isolated in solo. Alert is quite good with Deja Vu, especially in later game, as it gives away which gen/s the killer is prioritising and gives me advanced warning when they're heading to mine.
Next build I'm planning is We'll Make It with Second Wind and Empathy. My last perk is usually always an Exhaustion perk.
We'll Make It + Second Wind can be a game changer, 2 heals in 8 seconds, 5 with a decent medkit.
But it's an 'all eggs in one basket' kinda deal. If you get found first, tunnelled off the hook, or simply go against Plague/Legion, you're basically playing without perks.
Although if you make your exhaustion perk Dead Hard, you can potentially outplay a tunneler when you instantly recover your deepwound midchase then hit them with a DH unexpectedly.
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I swear by Deja Vu and Empathy for info. Helps avoid stupid 3-gen scenarios, and Empathy indirectly helps tracking the killer and speeds up healing by finding injured survivors. With enough gamesense you can almost pass for a SWF with how efficient you can be on gens and healing with this info.
Then for the other two perks I usually go for some combo of: We'll Make It to really double down on healing (and as you can see the injured survivor in chase you can predict where they're going down / getting hooked), Prove Thyself, Distortion, or an Exhaustion like Lithe/Balanced.
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This isn't a Resident Evil game though.
Can we at least get a second Silent Hill or Stranger Things chapter first?
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3711988#Comment_3711988
A slugged Survivor is also Map Pressure. Less with Unbreakable, but without Unbreakable you still have 2 Survivors not on Gens.
That doesn't mean this wasn't the survivors intended outcome. Otherwise they wouldn't be attempting to force a DS hit.
This game isn't that black and white that every action is either good or bad, most things are conditional. Good survivor teams know that a slugged survivor is worth more than a hooked survivor. They are absolutely revelling in the fact that the killer cannot pick them up.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3711969#Comment_3711969
You heard it here folks. Being slugged is what Survivors want.
You're naive as ######### if you think otherwise.
They either have teammates ready to pick them up or Unbreakable.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3711977#Comment_3711977
I mean… sure, but at that point, it seems kind of silly to complain about it or even really talk about it. Survivors could "weaponise" a bunch of stuff if we accept that them doing so can result in throwing the game and it still counts as "weaponising".
Just seems like an unhelpful definition to use for discourse. Not exactly an impactful weapon if it hurts you and not your opponent.
That's where we come back to killers that aren't intending to tunnel.
You're trying to play fair, your opponent forces you into a situation when playing fair backfires. It sours the entire experience. You get pushed into a lose-lose situation where you either fall behind or you get backlash for tunneling.
You're punishing the wrong people and perpetuating the cycle of toxicity. Those killers are likely to end up thinking they may as well just tunnel to begin with anyway.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3711969#Comment_3711969
1: Sure, but in the scenario you're describing where the survivor willingly runs over to get downed, it's a safe bet they have the perk that makes that not a terrible idea.
2: It's "some" distance but it's not that much distance, it's only a protection hit. They could definitely have made it to a new tile depending on circumstances, but in that scenario the extra time investment you put into that chase is being rewarded proportionately with extra damage to the survivor team's efficiency. You put a little more time into that chase → Two survivors are occupied instead of one.
It may be what they want but that doesn't mean it's actually all that good for them.
It might not be good for them, but it is still 'weaponising' it.
Kicking a wasps nest isn't a great idea either but it's still an offensive act and the wasps are entitled to be pissed about it.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3711965#Comment_3711965
See, you've missed a step here and it's part of what baffles me about this conversation.
So, you lay out that they can bodyblock with unhook Endurance and force the killer to hit them. Solid, I'm with you so far. You say that they can then continue for a second hit, which I think is starting to stretch things a little but they can do that, so alright, I'm with you.
Then you skip straight to the killer eating DS and doubling down to tunnel them, which raises the really extremely pressing question of "why did the killer pick them up". Surely anyone in their right mind is going to realise a survivor that willingly went down like that has DS, right? So you'd just… not pick them up and continue to chase whoever you were actually focusing on, thus occupying two survivors for the price of one chase.
1. It's a gamble whether they have DS. It's a perk, not basekit.
2. Lying on the ground is what the survivor wants. Whether they get picked up and hit DS, or wait for another survivor to pick them upn they see it as win-win. Your next best option is typically a healthy survivor some distance away by now. You've lost your chance to go for the unhooker. It is making it more difficult for the killer to not tunnel. It's now better to pick up, eat DS, then continue to chase the injured survivor.
So when a mechanism that is intended to make tunnelling more difficult, is used by survivors to make not-tunnelling more difficult, it's a complete reversal, that's 'weaponising' it.
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By simply having DS it allows them to 'weaponise' bodyblocking with lower risk.
Survivors bodyblock with unhook endurance, forcing the killer to hit the unhooked survivor, but then they continue for a second hit, safe in the knowledge that they won't be hooked again.
They're entitled to use up their anti-tunnel measures this way, buying time for other survivors at their own expense, but the only viable counter for the killer is to then double down and tunnel them after burning through DS, which is understandably irritating when you're intentionally trying not to tunnel.
So yes, for a perk and a basekit mechanic that are intended and balanced around mitigating tunneling, to be used in a way that penalises non-tunnelling killers, can certainly be seen as 'weaponising' something that should be a 'defensive' measure rather than 'offensive'.