Senaxu
Senaxu
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Today, if someone in Dead by Daylight with a new killer doesn't 4k's regularly after the first 5 games, the killer sucks and needs to be buffed. Unfortunately, that's the mentality.
I want to learn French by tomorrow, if I don't manage it I hope the language will be made easier.
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No, they should increase it. if you dc 3 times within a day you should wait an hour in Queue. If you leave the queue, the timer resets.
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I like the new map, every room is unique, some strong some weak loops, great tp spots, really well done BHVR.
If you can fix the few bugs that are there atm and maybe a few hooks more then we can leave it like that. -
Yes, unfortunately subtle cheaters are becoming more and more common, so you'll have to get used to it.
There is no useful protection against this.
You can record and report sus game play.
However, it is quite possible that in the event of a ban you will have needed more time to report, than the banned player needs to get a new account. -
As usual in this game, players will exploit a feature like this like hell.
No DC penalty would mean:
A killer you don't want to play against? -> DC
A map that I don't like? -> DC
This teammate nodded at me twice? -> DCOf course, if you want to turn DBD into a PvE game or If you are okay with only playing every 10th match to the end, you can consider introducing such a feature.
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Even as a survivor main, I think it's a shame that killers are bashed so hard here.
It would be better if killers have as base kit that give them an additional 5% more in the next gen regress event for each alternating survivor hook.
Then I would find the gen perks nerfs acceptable, but not like that.
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@Crowman said:
When I play survivor, I complain about my teammates giving up immediately.
Fact is people queueing up to play DBD want to play against other people. People quitting out immediately without even trying is not fun for either side.
Now imagine there would be no DC penalty as many are demanding. Then killers would only play against bots because everyone would be disconnecting cause of wrong map, wrong killer, fast down, etc.
Then all that's missing is activated Anonymous mode / private profile and no problems on the profile or reports.
I would love to block such players from my personal matchmaking. -
If there is a DBD 2, can we have something to protect ourselves from cheaters this time?
Of course I mean valid, usable automatic protection.
I know the total number of players would decrease very drastically because of this, , but it would still be a good start.
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@Johdude said:
I will keep it really simple. Anon players play in certain ways that correlates to the reason they choose to play anon mode. These reasons make me not want to play with them or against them. Please add a feature similar to crossplay off, where I only get matchmade with players that choose to play not anonymously.
Well, disabling crossplay only means that you can only be matched with people who have also disabled crossplay, that's why the queue times are 30min+. So there is no 200 IQ feature that checks which platform you have. The feature is actually pretty useless.
Yes, I would like an anon-off function. It just happens more often that such a player does more nonsense (dc, first hook suicide, etc.) This is similar to console players, who are generally more casual, which is also completely fine, but these are facts.
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@Junylar said:
I wonder, what is "the game's firewall" and what is the popular belief about it? If you mean the anti-cheat, then on the contrary, the popular belief is that it's next to nonexistent. But the main problem is not even the anti-cheat itself, but the fact that most of game logic is not server validated, so the game allows a lot of the most ridiculous cheats impossible in other games, such as speedhack, flying, teleporting or even making the match never end. With proper server validation most of those hacks just wouldn't work.
But the most annoying are of course so called "subtle cheaters", who only use wallhack and increase their speed by a few percent, making it not so obvious, or only using speedhack while not directly seen by the killer. They think they are subtle, but with enough experience you can easily tell when the survivor is definitely too fast with no proper reason, or when the killer somehow knows for sure where you are, even though he has no aura-reading perks and no event could lead him to you. These have always been common and still are.
In any case, reporting them is a chore, and we don't have any hope for any server validation or anti-cheat improvement in the future, since the playerbase seems quite tolerant to the cheaters issue, so while the money flows - everything is alright and other things get prioritized.
This! And people still spend a lot of money on the game(skins, dlc, etc). Unfortunately it will stay that way...
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@Junylar said:
I wonder, what is "the game's firewall" and what is the popular belief about it? If you mean the anti-cheat, then on the contrary, the popular belief is that it's next to nonexistent. But the main problem is not even the anti-cheat itself, but the fact that most of game logic is not server validated, so the game allows a lot of the most ridiculous cheats impossible in other games, such as speedhack, flying, teleporting or even making the match never end. With proper server validation most of those hacks just wouldn't work.
But the most annoying are of course so called "subtle cheaters", who only use wallhack and increase their speed by a few percent, making it not so obvious, or only using speedhack while not directly seen by the killer. They think they are subtle, but with enough experience you can easily tell when the survivor is definitely too fast with no proper reason, or when the killer somehow knows for sure where you are, even though he has no aura-reading perks and no event could lead him to you. These have always been common and still are.
In any case, reporting them is a chore, and we don't have any hope for any server validation or anti-cheat improvement in the future, since the playerbase seems quite tolerant to the cheaters issue, so while the money flows - everything is alright and other things get prioritized.
The. Everything is said here.
Nothing will change because enough money will come in elsewhere.
Unless the situation becomes so bad at some point that the developers are FORCED to do something about it.
It's a real shame, but I hope this happens at some point.
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@Yatol said:
never and TBF there is no better alternative currently.
There are games that do a good job of keeping cheaters at bay.
A massive problem is that there is virtually no server side validation in Dead by Daylight. And this in a PvP game for 7 years. Nobody can tell me that this couldn't have been implemented in that time.
Skins, DLC's generate money. Good cheat protection software doesn't do that.
As long as players spend thousands of dollars on skins, this will continue to be the main priority.As simple as that.
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It is actually quite simple:
You have to look at the game as a whole and not just a part of it.
If you are not satisfied with it, then don't spend any money on it.
If you think it's good and you like it, then support it accordingly.
BUT:
If you don't like something and it takes away your enjoyment to an extent that is no longer justifiable WHILE you're spending money on it at the same time (skins, DLC's, etc) then you are part of the problem.If you're of the latter sort, you don't have to wonder why things essentially don't change.
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Thank you for the many answers! Much appreciated!
My goal was to propose a feature idea to ban players who harbor offensive behavior or fraudulent intentions from in-person matchmaking.However, since in this game it is usually in the direction of players using functions for their personal advantage (e.g. removing players with high MMR or targeted streamers in order to increase their own win rate), this approach would definitely backfire, I understand that. That was also the predominant answer here in the thread for what the function would be used for.
That's a shame, because it also reflects that the majority of players use every possible advantage to decide the match in their favor. This is one of the reasons why Dead by Daylight has such a high problem with cheaters, every advantage is used, some draw the line earlier, others don't at all. I wish it were different.
The approach of limiting a block list to a limited number of player slots (block list volume), for example 100, would help somewhat, but players would still exploit it for their own advantage and that misses the actual idea of this function.
Therefore, the basic problems must be addressed individually at some point in the future in order to be prevented globally (first hook suicide, cheaters, etc...) But I assume that this is not a priority for now, there are other areas of work.
It's a learning for me. Now I understand BHVR better why various things cannot be implemented, as you always have to keep in mind how players could misuse various functions.
Anyway, thanks again for all the feedback, it's always nice to see different perspectives on a topic :)
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@FreddyVoorhees said:
Maybe an internal command where you can post notes for every killer and the player that are local and only you can see them ?
That way you will know if you played with someone and what they did before. This can also be used for good things.
-name- "face camped, slugged the last one for no reason"
-name- "stomped us but let 2 out"
-name-"went back to save me"
Yes, I mostly agree with that.
I have some small doubts that your mentioned function would be easier to develop, but it would still solve the problem because you would then simply leave the lobby if you play Killer.
As a survivor you would still have the problem because you can't see the killer's notes in the lobby because the killers profile isn't visible here.@MaTtRoSiTy said:
I wish… I would happily wait longer for a match if I could have a block list of players I never want to verse or be teamed with.
Sadly this will never happen
Yes, unfortunately I also have the same opinion. Probably won't have any priority.
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I know a lot of people are upset that many of the planned changes aren't coming and for the Twins most of the planned changes aren't going live, but it's the right decision.
It's also important to point out that BHVR is now listening a lot to the community's feedback and that's a good thing and a big improvement compared to how it used to be, props to BVHR at this point.
We'll definitely get a rework of the Twins or various perks that are still problematic at some point, but it's better that these only come when they're ready and not released in an unfinished/unbalanced state.
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Unfortunately, nothing will change. Either you accept it or change the game.
Personal note
In case you accept it: There are a lot of good skins that you can pay money for, the purchase recommendation is out.
The reason why it still is that way btw. -
I think that's the wrong approach. Killers shouldn't be punished if they tunnel, they should be rewarded if they don't. Extra regress for the next gen regress event after a fresh/change hook as a basekit e.g.
There are already enough perks to punish a killer for tunneling.
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There will always be that one group that complains about why survivors can still walk around upright at the start of the round and not crawl around on the ground like the worms they are.
Decisive Strike has the only one-time use to counter a specific play style. If you, as a killer, are only able to play this style of play, it will be countered somewhat. If all survivors use one or more perks to counter this particular play style, then you should avoid forcing this play style anyway. This means that way you automatically deactivate a large part of their perks and are very likely to win the match.
Unfortunately, Dead by Daylight currently still requires skill to be a major factor in winning a game. As long as this is the case, your first priority should be working on yourself.
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In terms of balance, I think the map is fine: 9/10
The map is really big and this makes it harder for most killer to defend the gens. However, since many loops are usually very short or unusable, the whole thing evens out.
Visually, I personally find the map to be the least beautiful or rather annoying to the eye, it is too colorful but as I said, this is very subjective.
Edit: Maps like CWF, Forsaken Boneyard or the game have beautiful colors.
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I can tell you 3 facts about this:
- There is no effective automatic cheat protection in this game and has been since release
- Subtle cheaters are very common and more than the average player realizes, because as described in point 1, by nature nothing can be done about it at the moment as long as the player keeps it subtle enough.
- Threads like this are usually closed very quickly because people want to keep the topic as small as possible and avoid it
Unfortunately, there is no change in sight in the near future. So either you accept it as it is or you change the game. Unfortunately there is no happy ending.
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@I_CAME said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3675271#Comment_3675271
It's funny because he already has the fourth highest kill rate in the game according to nightlight. People will say "well survivors don't know how to counter him yet". To which I say killers haven't had time to master him yet either. I personally don't think he's weak at all. There's a huge difference between a skilled Unknown and a guy who can't aim to save his life. I've run into quite a bit of both and I can definitely say he isn't weak when the person playing him is actually good.
Imagine a Nurse 2.0 release today.
The vast majority would not understand the potential or would not give it the time.
As a nurse, you won't only do 4k's after the first 5 games. It will take you longer. But that's no longer in today. You want the regular 4k's after 3 games at the latest, ideally straight away.
As I said, I'm looking forward to the first Unknown mains being created and streaming on Twitch.
This killer is anything but weak, especially if it stays like this (explosion radius through walls etc.). For those who are having a very difficult time here, compare it directly to singularity. If the stronger answer still tends towards the singularity, unfortunately there is really nothing that can be done to help.
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It's quite entertaining to read how the feedback here is that the new killer is too weak, even from more experienced players.
Well, in Dead by Daylight it often takes even longer than in other games for the average player to really understand the potential of a character.
The new killer will rank in the A+ range after people have learned to play.
A 115% ms range (aoe) killer that has both slowdown and map control built in. Top Tier. People have to learn it first.
Edit: The visual design of the killer is fantastic. The sounds and animations and chase music are also great. I'm impressed.
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Great design. We need more killers like that. At least 4-5 more range killers probably with some type of MG next time. It is so boring to play vs melee killers. I want to feel like in fortnite but without playing fortnite.
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A Dead by Daylight with useful automatic cheat protection is a dream that I have already given up.
A manual report with a ticket created, which is necessary because an in-game report alone is not enough, takes an average of 20 minutes (e.g. the last report from me today with video evidence of course) This is work that is not necessary in other games, let alone productive, since there is nothing against subtle cheaters.
To be honest, all I can say is that if this is important to you, you should really change the game.
Since there are apparently enough players for whom this topic is not that important and they continue to invest real money, not much will change. That's very sad but luckily there are now some other games that are a lot of fun and a few months away from DBD is also very refreshing.
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To be honest I would like to know what has to happen for all 4 survivors to DC.
This usually happens so rarely that an extra regulation shouldn't be necessary and I personally don't mind finishing the rest of the match against bots.
Of course, if you follow a certain playstyle, bots don't have any emotions and that may make completing the match less attractive.
I can understand that, but I still have no pity
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you have to get used to cheating in DBD. There is no change in scope sadly.
The only thing you can do is save your money, don't support it.
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Frankly, it's a shame that you even need video proof to have an unfair player banned for cheating and there is currently no automatic (mind you, useful) protection against it.
When I hear from competitors like Riot Game that a specially developed protection Vanguard will now also be used for League of Legends in the future, I wonder whether this necessary step will also be taken for Dead by Daylight at some point. I don't even play League of Legends, but there's a focus on that topic and it's even F2P.
Well, as long as money continues to come in from skins sold here in dbd, people are apparently completely satisfied with the game and that's also a reason why Diablo Immortal worked so well.
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that will not change sadly. the best way is to not spend any money. There are alot of people that are unhappy about the game but spent alot of $ in skins or other stuff ingame, so devs prio that likewise.
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@DrDucky said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/400553/update-on-cheaters
The devs answered this on their AMA. Basically it boiled down to, it is an arms race. They patch cheats and the cheats then get better.
Do you know Riot games (Vanguard) or Activision (Ricochet)? They have amazing results with their resonable software.
It's a question of motivation and resources.
But if you let the client decide which value input is valid, what results do you expect. The server says OK is accepted. And then there are people who complain that there aren't more game modes or rankings/tournaments in DBD. Well, what a miracle :D
But don't worry, there will definitely be a few skins coming out to satisfy the average DBD player, which in most cases is by far enough.
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BHVR is like: Blight addons are next, we hear you
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@ProfessorDunwich said:
He’ll probably be nerfed at the mid-chapter patch. Release the Killer strong, get sales, nerf to keep Survivors happy.
THIS. It's the same for every CoD or FifaXY. There are allways enough people to support and buy that stuff.
This is future, Diablo immortal in every game xD
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@Tsulan said:
Another problem is, that players are getting paranoic. Accusing normal players of hacking.
Had someone report me, because i could find them without tracking perks...
I agree with that. There are times when this is definitely the case.
However, there are certainly cases where players who use hacks/cheats insist that everything was normal. All the recently added things like MFT, Rapid Brutality, Speed serum,... don't contribute positively either, they blur the line even more.
It would be appropriate to significantly revise the EAC and NOT announce this.
Would be interesting to see the guilty players (could be a higher number) were then removed from the game and many moan threads would arise on Reddit where exactly these scum would then complain that the system doesn't work and that they were falsely banned fit the stereotype perfectly.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3563761#Comment_3563761
They only added report feedback quite recently, so it is possible, that in the time since none of the people you reported were banned.
Also DBD does have an anti cheat. They use Easy Anti Cheat and they worked on it when the cheating situation got out of hand. I'm not saying it's perfect but it's definitely not as bad as was before.
That last part is true but I don't consider this a problem with these perks but with the nature of cheating. Subtle cheaters will always be a thing in every online game. The best thing BHVR can do is to keep improving on their safety measures. And so far it seems they do.
You are right, Dead by daylight has EAC.
But what is EAC. It is a general cheat protection that is only effective if configured correctly. In comparison, solutions like Ricochet (an anti-cheat technology developed by Valve) or Vanguard (developed by Riot games) are tailored to the respective games and their requirements. The effectiveness of these solutions therefore also depends on the implementation and configuration by the game developers.
If EAC is configured correctly then it can be useful. To do this, it would have to be extensively tested and improved. Just as games that are being developed have to be played by the developers themselves to see if they work. Unfortunately, this is no longer the rule these days.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3563154#Comment_3563154
That's blatantly wrong. There were multiple instances when I was notified that a player I reported for cheating was banned.
It's impossible to completely remove cheaters from the game because they will always find a way. But it is nowhere near as bad as it was a year ago when cheaters were at an all time high.
It is highly unlikely you play against that many cheaters nowadays. Sometimes the game does a funny and something inexplicable happens but that doesn't mean someone is cheating. It could also be you play against someone who knows something you don't and uses it against you. I was accused of cheating before for curving with Hillbilly.
Ok, that is interesting. I reported alot of cheaters already and got most of them banned (you can see it if they have a steam account and check a few weeks later after the report), however I NEVER got a notification that a cheater player I reported was banned.
I played alot of multiplayer pvp games and i sadly have to say that Dead by daylight is the first game where there is still literally no automatic cheat protection to this day for about 6 years now.
And the fact that more and more perks have recently come into the game that change the movement or the repair speed does not contribute positively to this either. It feels more and more like a game that offers a home to cheaters.
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@BlackRabies said:
Even when reported their account still gets tagged so BVHR can look into the match and account. Long as proper report them and support ticket Not even anonymous mode can hide them.
It is still a manual process.
You have to have evidence, video proof of the cheater/hacker that used hacks and it has to be obvious. It is more difficult when they have Annoymous Mode or console simulation, so you cant tag there profile properly.
An the most important thing: If they cheat subtle and don't make it that obvious they are perfectly save and can continue that for years without consequence. And that is a sad fact.
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3559092#Comment_3559092
To be fair, it’s Otz, and the same cheater. If somebody were to cheat for the sake of attention, they would target people like Otz.
I don’t believe all these people are experiencing cheaters at the rate they suggest, if at all.
Thank you for confirming my previously stated statement.
We definitely agree that there was at least one cheater in this video. The last two (dwight survivor) are debatable. These could really have been twitch streamers and were exceptionally unlucky with the skill checks several times, but we can confirm this wesker was a cheater.
Now it has been officially confirmed by BHVR (you can research this) that 60k accounts were banned for cheating/hacking in 2022 alone, which, by the way, corresponds to around 165 accounts per day. Aside from the fact that this is an immense achievement by BHVR and all the players who took the time to report and ban these scammers (ticket, video evidence), it is quite shocking that there are still players who believe that there are no cheaters in this game because they themselves (for reasons already mentioned) have not had this experience.
I have to smile a little now because it reminds me a lot of the Flat Earth Society. You can also overwhelm them with facts and try to explain to them that there is a problem with their theory, but they are still happy in their world.
What else needs to be noted: BHVR is not to blame here either. It's the players who decide to cheat, tunnel, camp, tbag, dc's, etc. Unfortunately, the community is the real problem in the game, as sad as it is. If you look at what the developers have improved since I started the game (early 2018), it's an amazing achievement and really need to be mentioned at this point. However, many problems still exist and a lot of that lies with the players themselves.
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That's exactly the problem and a sad fact, the typical DBD average player doesn't recognize subtle cheaters due to their lack of gaming experience or doesn't play enough to encounter the obvious hackers themselves.
I can guarantee it's worse than they think. In 2022, BHVR confirmed that it had banned 60k cheaters; in 2022, mind you, the number of unhandled(subtle) cases is much higher.
The video:
https://youtu.be/tcVbVen8oc8?si=vMz0Y5Eq46yae53nDon't let the title fool you. The Cheat Festival starts at 5:20
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You have to get used to Cheater/Hacker in DBD since there is no automated cheat protection.
Otzdarva recently posted a video where he run into 3 obvious cheaters in a few hours. There are alot more that are just subtle and no way to ban them.
Still people will spend there money in skins and cry about how bad the game is and that is the real problem and that is also a reason why the priorities are that way.
If you have no fun, don't support it.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556470#Comment_3556470
But again, if cheaters overtake the game in its entirety, as in, the casual playerbase, BHVR loses the vast majority of its playerbase, and revenue stream. Cheaters don’t give a damn about cosmetics, characters, perks. They just unlock ‘em outright.
Not to mention that a metric tonne of cheaters’ accounts come from significantly cheaper or even straight-up free accounts, so the profit is even more negligible. BHVR doesn’t get a share from hackers selling cheats either. Hell, if they can find the actual entity that sells them, they could even sue.
Plus, developers generally want to make their game enjoyable. Sure, they’re slow with the anti-cheat, but this is really not as deep as you make it out to be.
To be fair, the developers care about revenue and if players enjoy the game and invest their money in skins etc., that goes well with that. The fact that developers are primarily concerned with the games quality is an anomaly that happens from time to time(Larian Studio), but is more an early 2000's story.
It may not be as bad as I present the facts, but it is definitely worse than the average DBD player base assess.
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@GentlemanFridge said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3556400#Comment_3556400
you can’t honestly think any studio wants cheaters to prosper in their game?
If it gets out of hand, your main source of income, the casual playerbase, leaves outright.
Not to mention that it spits in the face of years of work.
It's already out of control.
Recently a player was convicted of cheating after years of winning tournaments and receiving prize money. How was he convicted?
By carefully manually analyzing the irregularities of his gameplay. He kept the whole thing very subtle and only used it when it was safe/necessary. And these type of players are becoming more and more.
Those who are too obvious and get banned often buy a new license for the game, with 60,000 accounts banned in 2022 alone, which by the way is about 164 accounts per day, that's a lot of money and I don't have that feeling that the developers will have a high priority on developing automatic cheat protection in the near future.
It's sad but a fact.
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There is no automated cheat protection in this game, which unfortunately takes some getting used to.
A cheater was recently discovered who had been cheating his way into prize money for years and had won several tournaments. He kept his cheating subtle and was therefore not discovered. There are more and more people out there who act like this now.
But yes, there are some who stream their cheats live on twitch obvious and just need a new account every week.
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It's sad, but you have to get used to it in this game, Cheaters are a respectable source of income for the studio.
When you consider that 60,000 cheaters were banned in 2022 alone and to this day there is no automated system, but can only be banned based on obvious video footage created manually + ticket, that's amazing.
In the end it's about money, we're not talking about Larian here.
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I cannot react to the tail hit. When I'm playing vs huntress or PH there is a short windup where i can try to dodge or mindgame. Vs Veno i just go down, it is instant. But probably I'm just bad and i don't get the counterplay
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it really depends on the perks i use. if there is a facecamp killer that instant down and I'm not build for the rescue i don't give that type of player an additional kill.
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I see no increase in hacker at this very event.
However, there is also nothing preventing a subtle hacker from playing the game. So it is quite possible that these will continue to increase.
I haven't had an obvious hacker in the lobby for over a month now.
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Two facts:
- Yes, there are hackers for those who doubt they exist in Dead by daylight. BHVR banned 60k accounts of cheater/hacker in 2022 alone and thats just the offical numbers. You've learned something now, you're welcome.
- To date, there is no way to ban subtle hackers/cheaters. If they don't show their hacks openly, they're perfectly safe.
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@Blinckx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3446517#Comment_3446517
Fine but then GIVE ME A DAMN TOOL TO REPORT A CHEATER and impove EAC because, right now, both things are awful
That is a fact. Currently there is no way to detect and remove cheaters/hackers who act subtly.
These are absolutely secure and will continue to exist as long as there is someday an automated system that checks the code and game files (for 3rd party software).
However, realistically this cannot be expected before 2025. Let's see if the game is still played until then.
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@mca240 said:
I think the main problem here is, you can stack it with other endgame perks like NOED and NWO. Especially on higher tier killers endgame would be a guaranteed death.
The problem is that it would break the code in so many places that the Devs would work for the next 2 years to somehow get the perk in game and we might forget new content