Senaxu
Senaxu
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@Xernoton said:
I agree with @Halloulle. Incentives alone are not enough because they would need to be so strong that the game would become just as if not more insufferable than if the killer was hard tunneling.
The same is true for penalties. Punish a killer so much, that they won't consider tunneling a possibility and it becomes abusable to ruin their game either way. We already see people with DS forcing themself on the killer.
It needs some of both. Incentives to make it more convenient and viable to spread hooks and penalties to reduce the effectiveness of tunneling. The devs already tried their hands at designing killer perks that disincentivise tunneling and reward spreading hooks but they removed it from Ruin and if my build doesn't revolve around Pain Res, I suddenly have no reason to spread hooks anymore.
However, I think tunneling should always remain a viable yet situational play style. Otherwise the killer would lose even more of their ability to capitalise on survivor mistakes. If a survivor was to sit on a gen right next to them, then they absolutely should not be protected by the game.
like said It should still be in the killer's interest to end the chase as quickly as possible. So it should never be the case that delaying the chase is more rewarding.
If a survivor decides to provoke a down there should be measures in place to avoid negatively influencing the killer.
The tunneling playstyle should still be an option for those who really want to do so, just become less lucrative. -
@albertoplus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3829782#Comment_3829782
It will be fair if they also buff Wolf form heavily. If not, then Bat form will be "fair", Vampire form will be "fair" and Wolf form will be "bad".
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3829799#Comment_3829799
On the quote you did mention from me i didnt mention buffs tho?
Hellfire is almost perfect, if anything it needs to be very slightly buffed. Why nerf it?
Well, you already mentioned it. He needs no buffs. BHVR is not stupid, they are smart if you look at it from the right perspective.
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@albertoplus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3829726#Comment_3829726
Time limit on Bat form would be an absolute terrible idea.
People are talking about the chase aspect, you are supposed to stay in bat form always for patrol.
Have you ever seen a truly experienced Dark Lord player? He really doesn't need any more buffs.
Strictly speaking: When the sales figures are reached, he will be adjusted to a suitable level. -
@THE_Crazy_Hyena said:
So, back when I started playing the game, around Halloween 2018, many killers ran Hex: Ruin (to slow the game down, just a lil' bit). Looking back at that got me thinking about recent discussions on the forums, talking about hook incentives. What better perk to incentivice hooking than a new take on Hex: Ruin
Hex: Ruin (Hag):
Full rework: Now works off of a token system, similar to Devour Hope. A random totem will light up when the first token is gained.- 1 token: Generators will automatically regress at 50/75/100% speed if not being worked on.
- 2 tokens: Regression speed is increased to 75/100/125%
- 3 tokens: Regression speed is increased to 100/125/150%
- 4 tokens: Regression speed is increased to 130/165/200%, and the skill checks turn red **
** Red skill-checks will regress the generator by 1/2/3% for a good skill check (it won't pause the general progression though), and does not give any progression bonus for hitting a great skill check.
** This Hex trumps all survivor perks that gives additional bonus progression to great skillchecks.
** The success zone for great skill-checks is increased by 50% - This will make it slightly easier to push on through for newer players.
Note: This change awards players for doing well, and it does discourage tunneling if the player want the full effect of this perk. - This perk gets disabled for the remainder of the trial when a survivor gets sacrificed or killed.
Let me know if this would have been a good idea? And while we are at it, wouldn't the BP bonus for BBQ & Chili be a good idea to reinstate?
I really like this approach. So basically you only earn one token if you hang different survivors. And tunneling is less attractive and ruin becomes a useful perk again. A good suggestion.
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@Wraff said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3829561#Comment_3829561
Would the Killer also have the option to surrender or is it a Survivor only feature in your head?
nah I think the killer should have that option to in some special conditions. for example if he is left with 4 bots
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3829436#Comment_3829436
Why do you cut and convert the video? I just turn on the recording software when I see a cheater and record the rest of the match, they usually show up and then plot that file on youtube and link it in my report, sometimes I give timestamps.
Seems like you are making it overly difficult for yourself.
Sometimes I don't immediately suspect whether it's a scammer and only realize it later, depending on how subtle it is. In some cases where it is obvious, I start the recording manually.
In the subtle cases I use the function Shadow Play to save the last 15 minutes (the match). The file would be too big for that so I have to edit it. -
The “checkpoints” on the tokens may make Killers hold back on a hit to make sure they hit the next token. It may also make the Killer annoyed if they “waste” some chase time with a partially full token.
Is there any way to make it more granular? All progress on a partial Token also counts towards partial regression?
That's a good point, and yes. A smooth transition would definitely be fairer, meaning that every second longer in the chase would mean more regression up to a maximum value.
In the current concept description this would probably be too extensive and more confusing than helpful. Still, I prefer your solution.For the extra Hook, that may incentivize the Killer to get one Hook on a survivor, one on another, then just returning to Hook the first survivor till out of the game. Now, one extra Hook can be important, but it still only works for one Hook, without addressing the overall kinda sour note of a hard tunnel.
There will still always be a META strategy that is strongest, that's the case in every PvP game. At the same time, the goal is to try to make this a little more bearable and fairer for both sides. One more hook stage is at least a little more relief and the advantages of chasing other survivors may come close to it with the right value adjustment.
On a personal note, I don’t like that these features function passively: The Tunnel “prevention” is handled by the system against the Killers action (Instead of survivors striving to prevent the killing of a “friend”). And the Chase regression just zaps the Gen with the most progress from a distance without meaningfully adding anything noticeable to gameplay (I wouldn’t call seeing progress removed from your generator as a survivor with no input on your part meaningful).
There are quite a few things here that are actively there to promote or hinder this style of play.
On the survivor side there are now many anti-tunnel perks that help.
On the killer side, it's perks like pain resonance or plaything that really come into play here.The thing is, there is nothing fixed and passive in the game atm and the reason for the suggestion.
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@Halloulle said:
I do admire your creativity - though what is it that incentivises tunneling? For one that it's possible, true - but the winrate achieved by turning a 4v1 into a 3v1 asap is disproportionately high. Any incentive based approach to precent tunneling would have to yield results at least as good as tunneling. Keeping survs longer in matches like that just means they're a punching bag for longer.
Thanks, yes tunneling will still be strong but less attractive especially combined with existing antitunnel perks.
Of course, the exact regression values must be adjusted carefully here. Maybe 2% per token is a better value, that would be shown in tests. But it should pay off, I agree with you. -
I think it depends entirely on the status/situation of the game. If the game is over and impossible to win for survivors, I understand it.
However, if the first chased survivor throws in the towel because the chase was too short and therefore gives up/suicides, then it is not ok imo. But that's really rare in my lobbies.
I find the arguments “the game is ruined for me because of reasons XYZ” unjustified in such a case.
It is NOT a single player game. Here they can end the game at any time, so you it is not ruined for others.
But Dead by Daylight is a multiplayer game and with this comes certain moral obligations. In other games like League of Legends you can't just feed into the opponent or intentionally sabotage it with impunity, there are consequences.
An approach would be: An option to give up/surrender for survivors (a vote query), which is possible under certain conditions (f.e. 4 survivors on the ground, 5 hook stages when there are still 5 gens left, etc.).
The game should simply end after the majority of survivors have voted positively.
Accordingly the hooks escape attempts should be reduced to 1.
But as I said, for me personally it's rare that someone really gives up straight away. There was a phase here where this happened very often, but generally it is rare. -
@JimbusCrimbus said:
This overcomplicates the solution, isn't a solution, and also doesn't address WHY killers tunnel in the first place.
I'm afraid there isn't a simple solution to this issue otherwise we would probably already have one.
This problem has existed for a long time. It is primarily not intended to punish but rather to make/reward alternative approaches more attractive. -
@Toystory3Monkey said:
Becomes active when the first survivor is hooked.
So the game still hinges on first chase ultra hard because to even get your ######### going you need to get through first chase AND ONLY ON SECOND chase you start getting any benefits.
One Chase Token is earned every 15 seconds up to a maximum of 6 tokens (after 90sec if continuously in chase). If the chase ends by downing the survivor, the tokens are locked in.
If the chase is interrupted (Survivor escapes, etc.), the collected token bar slowly begins to fade (similar to the Trickster's laceration meter). It will only continue to fill up again when the conditions are met again (no chase with the last hooked survivor)
So not only this system punishes you for dropping any chase that doesn't result into a down, it DISCOURAGES you from ending the chase as soon as possible and gives petty bonus for essentially lost chase (90 seconds is insane, that's basically 3 gen chase, not even counting the time to hook a person).
The only thing it accomplishes is slightly pulling the killer back into the game if they're losing the game hard which is surely nice, but it doesn't resolve any of the issues you are allegedly trying to resolve.
It may work better if the decaying is slow enough to actually enable efficient hit&run with moderate downtime between short chases, but I heavily doubt it can work like that with the numbers you've presented, since it takes a while to accumulate merely one token, let alone 6.
As already mentioned, the regression event is triggered upon hooking and when accumulated locked tokens were available.
This event does not trigger an explosion on the generator, nor does it cause the generator to regress any further. It should basically work like the OG ruin if you only did a good skill check, a small regress without information for the killer.
Since this effect is probably still in the developers' database somewhere, it wouldn't be too complicated to implement.
??? survivors are given a way to nullify the only reason for killer to overcommit to chases to people they won't even kill right away BECAUSE why?
If the killer decides to only hunt a single survivor and wants to hook him 3 times in a row without hooking another survivor, the "Extra Hook Stage" event is triggered.
In this case, the survivor gets a bonus hook stage. This means that he has to be hooked a total of 4 times in order to die.
Otz's idea was better.
Good intention, bad execution. This doesn't "solve" tunnelling, it doesn't give killer better alternative to go for elimination ASAP, it works very poorly as a way to help badly performing players, yet it also takes away from the ability to go for that early elimination, granted it's not significant enough to matter, except just being a mild annoyance and a boring band aid fix to tunnelling.
So the game still hinges on first chase ultra hard because to even get your ######### going you need to get through first chase AND ONLY ON SECOND chase you start getting any benefits.
Based on the feedback answer, I'm afraid something has been misunderstood here. This is about a reward system to alternately hook different survivors. Nobody is penalized here compared to the current game version.
So not only this system punishes you for dropping any chase that doesn't result into a down, it DISCOURAGES you from ending the chase as soon as possible and gives petty bonus for essentially lost chase (90 seconds is insane, that's basically 3 gen chase, not even counting the time to hook a person).
The only thing it accomplishes is slightly pulling the killer back into the game if they're losing the game hard which is surely nice, but it doesn't resolve any of the issues you are allegedly trying to resolve.
It may work better if the decaying is slow enough to actually enable efficient hit&run with moderate downtime between short chases, but I heavily doubt it can work like that with the numbers you've presented, since it takes a while to accumulate merely one token, let alone 6
It should still be in the killer's interest to end the chase quickly in order to remain efficient. The additional regression serves as a catch-up mechanic especially for the killers who have a harder time in the chase and you can only get it under the conditions mentioned. Of course, the exact values (decay speed and regression percentage) have to be chosen and be tested very precisely to keep it fair for both sides.
??? survivors are given a way to nullify the only reason for killer to overcommit to chases to people they won't even kill right away BECAUSE why?
Of course, certain measurements must be incorporated in case the system is being exploited unfairly. If the survivor who has just been hooked is intentionally provoked to be downed, the “protection hit detection” can be used to prevent tokens from being lost.
Otz's idea was better.
Good intention, bad execution. This doesn't "solve" tunnelling, it doesn't give killer better alternative to go for elimination ASAP, it works very poorly as a way to help badly performing players, yet it also takes away from the ability to go for that early elimination, granted it's not significant enough to matter, except just being a mild annoyance and a boring band aid fix to tunnelling.
As I said, it should be a system that makes tunneling less attractive. If someone still wants to tunnel, they can certainly continue to do so, but it would then be less effective than it is currently.
It is intended to promote other strategies and paths that induce different approaches and also increase the quality and enjoyment of the game for both sides. The exact value definition for the mechanics is a very essential and important point.
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@angel_pellegrino said:
I appreciate the amount of care and thought that goes into what you are suggesting. It would be nice, as a survivor, to at least get to stay in the game for a wee bit longer.
Thank you, I've been thinking about this topic for a long time.
Yes it should contribute to this.
And as a side effect, it should motivate and reward killers for different strategies. -
@Emeal said:
If you think they are hacking, report it to bHVR here: https://support.deadbydaylight.com/hc/en-us/requests/new
Yes, I have reported a lot of cheaters like this and they will also be banned, no question.
But the thing is, even as an experienced person in this process (I've probably already reported 20+ cheaters in this way with the resulting ban) it takes me an average of 25-30 minutes.
Cut video evidence, remove names, convert, upload, open ticket, copy SteamAppID from prepared file, etc.
The process is probably even easier for the cheater himself. They usually have a cheat subscription with a replacement account guarantee. As long as he pays for the cheat monthly and is banned in the event, he will receive a fresh account.
Thanks to the free Epic Game DBD weekend where bots generated thousands of accounts, no problem. -
@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3828790#Comment_3828790
The aura's aren't the problem. Aura's on killer are meh at best. OTR is for the endurance off the hook. To no aura read is just a bonus.
With BHVR, I would laugh so hard if they nerfed an anti-tunnel perk. They have no way to defend such a change.
Yes, that's right. But DS was also nerfed back to 4 seconds. I can honestly imagine that if they nerf OTR it will be a one-time use like DS (probably pre-death hook activation).
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"60 million players" There are probably 10 million players alone who have Epic game accounts from the free DBD week that are used for cheat backup accounts
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@Rawrbot5k said:
Every single event game, slug and tunnel without fail. The first one hooked gets tunneled out. We try to be altruistic and help out but we just lose because of it. This game doesn't reward survivors for working together when there's no incentive for killers not to tunnel. We just need to accept the fact that one person will get to wait 15 minutes for a game to start and spend the next 3 minutes on the ground or on hook. Rinse and repeat. Can there be an incentive of ANY KIND for killers to spread the hooks out? And now slug for the mori. Person 1 tunneled out person 2-3 is on the ground from trying to prevent the tunnel and the last survivor is hiding in a corner waiting for hatch. "Get rid of distortion to prevent hiding" ######### are we supposed to do when 3 are slugged? Try and pick up someone just to get downed ourselves? They wanted killers to get the upperhand and they got it in spades. Survivors are quickly losing reasons to keep playing survivor. No amount of X% bp is going to keep people playing for long. "60 million players" Most of which only come back for events just to get reminded of why they stopped playing in the first place.
From a purely scientific perspective, an overwhelming majority of subjects with low IQs tend to exhibit more brutal or humiliating behavior.
So from that point of view, you end up coming out of this 15-minute game even better than others.
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time to get some aura perks nerfed for killers. then you can take out OTR
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Toba landing is the worst. By far the ugliest map, the strain on the eyes is really high with this card. The layout isn't my thing either.
Forsaken Boneyard is my favorite. No matter which side I play on, I like being on this map. The setting and colors are also unique. -
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/430945/hacking-is-out-of-control
First of, i think we are all giving them too much credit by calling them hackers, most of them have bought a tool that makes them able to cheat, so they are nothing but script kiddies that cheat.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3827752#Comment_3827752
That’s all fair, but BHVR could be doing a lot more. For starters, they could encrypt matchmaking data to improve protection against individual targeting. Another big improvement would be server-side validation for player actions. This would help detect any gameplay outside the bounds set by perks and the base game (even if it's slightly delayed to keep gameplay smooth).
A lot of players, myself included, have been asking for this for years. So, why hasn’t BHVR done it yet?
My guess is that it cost money, and there are really no incitement to spend money when you can just release new content every 3 months and get money instead. There are enough players that keep playing the game despite the lack of improvements to the anti cheat.
You nailed it.
Unfortunately, many players don't understand this or are part of the problem.
I've been playing the game since 2018. There is still no server side validation which is absolutely ridiculous. "It's a neck-and-neck race between devs and hackers..." What good is a new sports car if you don't have fuel to drive it -> No server side validation, for dummies.It's about money. Skins bring money. Revising the code and implementing server validation costs money. Banned players result in a drop in player numbers.
In-game shop function impaired -> fixed within a few hours
A game-breaking in-game bug -> fixed in the next patch (1-2 months)Facts.
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@Aceislife said:
I had a Spirit that did this, and I also got a 5-minute DC penalty after the game, even though I didn't disconnect. Also I genuinely don't get the point of bots like this in DBD.
yes, exactly. I also had the 5-minute DC penalty after the game.
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@Ashen_One_Chris said:
This is one of the so called "Terminator Bots". Around 2020 when the hacker group(s) started getting serious money from this game we encountered the first ones. They are scripted to: teleport to a survivors location > insta-down them > pick up > teleport to a hook > hook > go back to 1.
As for the server-sided validation part … I don't think there is a point of discussing how much the whole "it's an arms' race" talk of anti-cheat has become a meme.
Or that multiple accounts of the same person being banned for cheating isn't considered a reason to blacklist and hardware ban them for life.
Or the Epic Games fiasco with the thousands of botted accounts still being distributed and used by hackers that make, sell and advertise these programs …
The recent survey had a single option inbetween many others about "which of these features do you think should be prioritized for the game?" And it was "improving the base of the game to allow for anti-cheat upgrades" of shorts. Good luck to all of us if it is ever considered a priority 5 years past the server implementation.I've been playing the game since 2018 and I've now given up hope that usable cheat protection / server validation will actually come into play.
There were cheaters back then, but not as regularly. It also seems that the number of cheaters who show it blatantly is lower these days than those who do it subtly, as people get away with it without consequences.
And seriously speaking, it's quite a disgrace if, after so many years, there is still no serious cheat protection / server validation and it is still a low priority. If something is wrong with the in-game job, you can bet it will be fixed within a few hours. I couldn't deliver such quality to my customer otherwise I wouldn't have the job for 2 weeks. Unfortunately a fact.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
So another update dropped today with no mention of the bug that’s been affecting The Onryō’s invisibility duration for the past 10 months. That brings the total number of patches that the Onryō has been bugged for to 29.
Completely absurd that in 29 patches spread across 10 months, the issue hasn’t even been acknowledged, let alone fixed.
There is no revenue in patching it. If the shop is bugged, a patch will arrive in 5 hours at the latest, you can be sure of that
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823795#Comment_3823795
They have proven to fight against cheaters, its just that its an endless battle. The devs build a higher wall, cheaters get a taller ladder. Its an endless battle, and this goes for literally any game out there. Id also argue the cheater situation in this game is VERY tame compared to other games nowadays. (I wouldnt of said the same thing during the cheater epidemic tho)
Id also argue the cheater situation in this game is VERY tame compared to other games nowadays. (I wouldnt of said the same thing during the cheater epidemic tho)
Go to youtube and search for dead by daylight cheat / hacker and filter within the last 24h.
I think it's also a question of game knowledge. If you're not an experienced or attentive player, you won't notice if there's a cheater in the lobby. As I said, you need obvious proof to be able to ban a player. If this doesn't exist, then there is nothing to fear. There are some Twitch streamers who stream how easy it is to cheat in DBD and earn money with it (for years).
Sorry, but I always find it cute when there are people who say, oh, the situation is "VERY tame" xD -
@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823795#Comment_3823795
They have proven to fight against cheaters, its just that its an endless battle. The devs build a higher wall, cheaters get a taller ladder. Its an endless battle, and this goes for literally any game out there. Id also argue the cheater situation in this game is VERY tame compared to other games nowadays. (I wouldnt of said the same thing during the cheater epidemic tho)
Unfortunately, I'm afraid this is a topic you really don't understand. It's nice to write a few things about cheat protection here(wall and ladder), but none useful simply exists in the game. But it's not that bad, there are a lot of people like you here who don't have that much idea.
There is no server validation in Dead by daylight yet. This means that the client has all possible options for various value inputs. The server accepts this without validation and says fine (go for 300% movement for the next 16 seconds).
This also means that there is still no automatic cheat protection, which means that a support ticket has to be opened manually and a ban can be obtained with the help of clear evidence (video or screenshot). This process takes on average 20 minutes. Also a few little facts and also good learning.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823692#Comment_3823692
"Anything in this world is allowed, as long as you don't get caught"
-My Highschool law teacher.
Just because thats the case doesnt mean its right. Youre in a bad spot in life? Sorry to hear that, but dont try to drag everyone down with you.
I will agree though the report system in this game is something that REALLY needs improving
Exactly, people do it anyway. And yes, I'm sure that people who cheat or humiliate or treat other people in order to feel better about themselves, on a regular basis of course, have some serious problems in RL.
This kind of thing shouldn't normally be encouraged in any game but should be punished more severely. DBD, on the other hand, is very tolerant here and doesn't want to lose such people, as many of them also spend good money.
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Yes, they do, but they often don't give a statement but rather keep the forum clean of repulsive content and occasionally excessive criticism of the game.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3823353#Comment_3823353
Ive never understood this "you paid for it, you can do whatever you want!"
If I buy a ticket to go to the movies, doesnt mean I can talk loudly and be a disturbance to everyone else.
Well, almost anything virtually possible is allowed in dead by daylight. Even cheating/hacking as long as you don't make it too obvious or are lucky that no one is making a video recording or investing 20 minutes for a cheat report.
I don't know this from any other PVP game and I've played many.It's a refuge for people who have a hard RL conditions, I think that's intentionally made like that to speak to that type of persona (revenue wise ofc)
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I also don't think exhaustion is a bad spot for either side.
I think it's just a decision which addon's or perks you take with you at the lobby screen as a killer. Of course you can decide as a killer which perk load out you log in based on the survivor items shown. With 4 flashlights e.g. lightborn.
You don't have this luxury with other things. The survivor perks are not yet displayed in the lobby screen. But maybe BHVR surprises us here, u never know. -
yes some content that got removed. the wrong topic or some criticism about the game. happens regularly on reddit too.
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I would say, are you interested in a game where you can cheat without having to fear any major consequences? There is hardly anything better than DBD.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3820199#Comment_3820199
Sadly the information about the item is not used to prepare, but rather to dodge. And this should not be a thing.
That's true, f.e. there are some Plague players that dodge lobbies until they get at least 2 medkit users in it.
I know hilarious right? But I guess now it's understandable why the prestige thing was fixed.. -
@ChainsLogic said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3820670#Comment_3820670
They could simply increase the distance between gates on some maps? Like, it's a really easy solution, I think you're the one who hasn't put much thought into their reply.
They could teleport you to a locker, like with Vecna, to make the teleport mechanic easier to code. Also, you need a key to open hatches, and each hatch has only 1 time use, so in any case this would be a 3 times thing at most, survivors wouldn't be on "steroids" jumping around all the time. Some people on these forums need to work on their reading comprehension.
I read your suggestion but I still don't understand your main argument. If you mention Vecna, then I assume you also know his dungeon map. The problem here is still that the exits are almost always right next to each other. This is something that would be really easy to fix and yet it hasn't happened yet.
If the resources aren't there for that, do you really think they'll build in a mechanic with a one time use hatch (sorry it's supposed to be 3 hatches) to teleport you to another position on the map?
If your main argument is that the keys are used so rarely, yes, that's true. But to incorporate such a complex mechanic, I might see a game studio like Larian Studios but not BHVR.
BHVR wants it simple. A simple solution to this would be to turn all breakable walls into breakable doors. these can be passed instantly with a key. Wouldn't change much tbh but the keys would at least have sometimes some use until they are empty. ofc there should be breakable doors on every map and never more than 4 to keep it fair for the killer.
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You already realize that your Mario pipe hatch mechanic would require more resources from the devs than some new killer perk sets.
Realistically speaking, do you think they can implement it this way without causing errors somewhere else in their clean code? Do you think killers would find it exciting to chase a survivor on steroids the whole match or could they also hop through this Mario pipe hatch?To the point with the 30 sec timer until the gates are powered, the endgame starts:
What would you do as a survivor if the killer simply runs straight to a gate after the last one dies on the hook or is in the dying animation and defends it until the endgame starts. If the gates are not completely far apart, as is often the case, the endgame would be like as it is rn. with the difference that as killer you can prematurely defend the gates.
sorry, but there really wasn't much thought put into this -
yes would be fair, hide everything until the post game chat.
Or show every players profile also killer in the lobby.
But that would hinder streamers, so the post-endgame solution would be the smartest. -
More movement speed benefits are an easy solution to disguise subtle cheats. harder to detect, an easy and cheap fix.
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The real advantage of nerfing distortion is that it is now even harder to see whether someone is using a wallhack or not. In such a cheater-friendly game where more and more modifiers like speed inc perks aura reading and etc are added, this is another nice addition.
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@Amazedturnip said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3815398#Comment_3815398
The day their analytics show it can and will is the day we eat good! Operation Health for rainbow six siege brought in the most growth ever in and since the games history, and it truly kickstarted the game's community. As much as i hate to say it, if they embrace the niche community of comp DBD, and all the networking cleanup with it, things might get interesting fast. With UE5, they've only just overcome their limitations hopefully now we can get our operation Health. Who knows, maybe the changes enable a permanent competitive mode and they finally add it, because as much as people have begged for it for years, it's just not possible because of how clunky it is currently but it's so close! And thus, a community is born.
People who drop the game stop spending money. This game makes the most money from the "whales" who keep buying but we've lost a lot of whales along the way. Otzdarva documented his journey with this and he almost hung up the towel a year ago, the biggest DBD streamer, and it's worth a watch. I am no whale, but can't fathom spending another penny until we at least get a central/ohio/dallas server.Operation Health for rainbow six siege brought in the most growth ever in and since the games history, and it truly kickstarted the game's community
That's right, real DBD can only start when the biggest problems such as server ping, hit validation and cheating protection have been fixed. When the time comes, a good game will become a great one. However, I think it will be a long time coming, for the reasons mentioned. Sales can be actively and directly generated from new content “Killer, surv, perks”.
I am no whale, but can't fathom spending another penny until we at least get a central/ohio/dallas server.
For me it's the same. There is some nice content like skins (especially from some killers) that I think are very good and overall the design of new killers including the chase music are now at a very good level, BHVR is doing a great job here.
However, I will only spend money again when the most important problem for me personally "server management and validation + useful cheat protection" has been comprehensively revised and fixed.
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@Amazedturnip said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3815362#Comment_3815362
I completely agree, however i think going after this and making changes is extremely within their interests.
There's a reason for example that large social media platforms have "For You" pages and that curate what you like, and every single tiny detail to feed you the media in the way that makes you stay on it longer. Specifically the aspect that it always knows more of what you want without telling you, or you even knowing it.
I think the incentive is extremely similar as keeping players happy by working on the back end and tweaking all those tiny "negligible", unnoticed, or small things is severely undervalued, and they would see significant growth in every area(player count, auric cell sales, word of mouth, reviews, merchandise, etc.) by implementing these things. Further, if they outlined an entire update around it(despite the overall minimal actual implementation) and had an "Operation Health" moment, It would bring attention back to the game for people who left for the very same reasons since the overall controversy of dedicated servers in 2019. If needed, they could also actually outline resources to it, and justify a gap in content for the sake of health. I am certain the community would generally be happier, despite initial "change is bad" reactions.I wish for everything you mentioned and agree with it, but it's like a dream.
The sad fact is, BHVR is just a company. Economic efficiency (and the resulting profit) comes first, everything else comes second.
The community really likes the content such as skins, playable characters and other things and spends a lot of money on it.
A health patch or the like makes the game better for the players but does not generate any directly visible revenue. As long as the number of players doesn't go down or the profitable part continues to do well, nothing will change.
The times when developers (game companies overall) really put their heart and soul into the project and really want to bring a well-polished product to the customer are over, with the exception of absolutely exceptional cases (Larian Studios).
This may be due, on the one hand, to the administration, as publishers these days have much more power to push various things like releases to satisfy shareholders, and, on the other hand, to the players themselves, who buy the new product every year (Call of Duty or Fifa XY ) which are overpriced and nothing significant has changed.
I'm going too far now, but the last season of GoT, for example, is a good example of what happens when publishers (HBO) don't wait for the final product from the creator (in this case George R. R. Martin, who hadn't finalized the book yet).
I really hope that something changes but these days it's enough if you do the bare minimum because the money still comes in (skins, DLCs, early access,...)
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Unfortunately, the server status is generally not in good condition. In addition, there is also no server side validation (in a pvp game for 7 years), which makes cheating in the game very easy, wall hacks are really common.
Since there is quite a lot of casual weed here, the issue is not yet a priority as revenue is generated elsewhere.
In summary, the gameplay and assets such as killer design, perks etc. are in a really good state, you have to give them credit for that. But servers and maintenance management are poor.. -
@adsads123123123123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3814580#Comment_3814580
Who has the power to close the hatch, thus preventing a hatch stand off?
Closing hatch = survivor escape
It's no different from asking the survivor to come suicide to the killer.
While both parties have some blame (the killer for the obvious,
Both sides are equally to blame since both sides can give up at any time.
killer simply closes the damn hatch.
Similar to the old hatch stand off, the killer could just hit the survivor or walk away and the hatch stand off would be over. However, the old hatch stand off was still removed. This means that the developers don't think that forcing one side to give up is good.
So what we see is you asking for things to be easier for killer for your own reasons, not some thing thats needed.
It's not easier. Objectively speaking, the best strategy to stand afk on the hatch until the survivor gives up. This is easier than closing the hatch and contesting the gates.
That "strategy" will not help if you check doors either before you find the hatch or after and dont close it,
If the survivor is looking for hatch instead of camping the gate, which they will be most of the time, checking both doors is basically an automatic escape because it takes too much time to check both doors thoroughly.
"strategy" will not work if you have either "no way out" or "remember" me equipped
Already discussed in previous comments why this is a bad argument.
That "strategy" only works if RNG favors that survivor that specific day, and because RNG is fair, its an equal chance it will favor the killer.
Not really. On large maps, it's almost certain that hatch will spawn far from the gate.
This doesn't fix hatch stand offs.
You still haven't explained how it doesn't fix it. If the survivor can no longer abuse the strategy, why would I need to hatch stand off? You're also contradicting yourself. You said that No Way Out would counter the strategy, so you're admitting that No Way Out would solve the problem, which is similar to my suggestion.
It's enough to just read these arguments here to understand what problems the community and also the devs have to deal with here.
Really amazing and I feel a little sorry for people who can only enjoy a game if they regularly have 4ks. I hope things get better for you at some point.
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These are two different problems.
BHVR has done a good job of punishing you for regularly and frequently leaving a game.
What leaves a lot to be desired, however, is the cheat protection, which is virtually non-existent.
Fixing that by removing the DC penalty is the wrong approach and creates other problems that are bigger than the actual problem.
People who say that they have been playing for years and claim that they have never had an obvious cheater are either unrealistic lucky people or simply don't play enough and have a lack of knowledge of the game, period.
DBD has a cheater problem, it's been like this for years and nothing has changed significantly.
Once this is fixed at some point you can address the problem with the DC penalty. Most people disconnect not because of internet problems but because of anger.
It would be easy to fix that, like other games (f.e. League of legends), you can no longer enter the queue until the bot that replaced you in the game dies / the match is completed.
So people who actually had a DC based on connection issues, which is the absolute minority of all DC's, have the chance to rejoin the game. All those who left the game because of a rage quit have time to clear their heads, calm down and then get back in line. -
Nothing will change because 95% of people are still spending money on skins or other things to increase BHVR revenue and THAT is the only thing BHVR care about in the end.
Cheat protection will not increase their revenue and that is why we have this situation.
Here is a recent video from Hens333 that shows very well how much power such people have in Dead by Daylight:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_gKG71tE_LoTo be honest, I secretly hope that the situation will eventually become so bad that the developers will be forced to do something about it.
Like being pushed by your parents to go to school as a kid.
Like developers setting up server validation in a PvP game after more than 7 years. -
@Backmon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3795811#Comment_3795811
And why do you think i subjective? Cause this changes can solve 2 problems with this perk. Agressive bodyblocking cause now they doing this cause now they can run after stun to far. Give reward equal for effect being activate (cause effect of perk is passive you dont need to do anything for perk to work and for now reward is to much for how passive and easy value from this perk). So its only make perk fair, thats all.
I still sincerely hope that what I'm reading here is a joke.
Do you realize that the only thing that makes DS so strong is countering the tunnel playstyle? If you strictly and exclusively decide that you want to play that particular playstyle in all games, be prepared for people that design their entire loadout to counteract that playstyle and destroy you.
I'm very grateful that devs who read suggestions like these fortunately completely ignore them and hopefully also flag (deprioritize) people who bring them up because there are really important topics that are really a problem and need the resources for them.
I can always recommend that you sit down for a moment and think about what it looks like on the other side of the river (survivor).Unfortunately, that has often not happened and especially in this topic here.
I could now start talking about 2 seconds of stun, that half a second is lost just because of the survivor's fall animation from the shoulder and the remaining 1.5 seconds are just enough to prepare for the instant nurse blink or blight rush before kissing the floor, but since I unfortunately don't have a drawing board here to record these details, which unfortunately won't be understood either way, I'll leave it at that and wish you much success.
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It's always amusing to read such well-thought-out suggestions where you can immediately see that the person has dealt with the topic objectively.
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i hope they will increase it one day so that people that ruin games for other will be quit for good.
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@ShadyC said:
Killers that facecamp tunnel just to ruin one person's game.
Survivors that SWF as 2 or 3 so that they can bully the other teammate(s).
Whatever side I'm playing… I feel like more than 80% of my games are contaminated in some way. Solo Survivor without a leaver in the first 60 seconds? Good luck, friend. Killer game without some abusive map offering, with a bunch of synchronized GGEZ's in postgame chat? Fat chance.
The list of ways that people use this game for the sole purpose of being ######### to everyone else is truly endless. This game has more "People being ######### to others" YT content than any other game, by a large margin. And anyone that plays this game can immediately understand why - unless they are on the side of being the offenders, of course. Because, in this game, you either grief or get griefed.
And it's just so incredibly bad out there.
I firmly… firmly believe that BHVR should record all games & chats, and share all of this game's data with the FBI and relevant local police, because doing so would help locate a lot of legitimately problematic people, probably prevent a lot of bad things from happening, and overall we could probably clean up this world if we simply had access to DBD's data.
Convince me otherwise.
Dead by daylight is a haven for bad behavior and intentionally ruining other players gaming experience without fear of major consequences. I think that's intentional because it's been like this for years and nothing significant has been done about it.
Just the cheating/hacker problem, which is rarely discussed and much avoided as possible. If you search for dbd and cheats on YT and filter for the last 24 hours, you can see how serious this problem is. Some cheaters even make money on Twitch and YT by showing how easy it is and have been doing it for years.
This is just a topic.
DC's humping, slugging and hugely toxic after chats are very regular occurrences. It's similar in other games, but at least there it's regularly punished.
The best thing to do is simply not to spend money on it to not support it.
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@SelectDevotee68 said:
Removal of disconnect timer:
Right now, people are still quitting early via attempts and afk skill check fail. Removing the timer for Survivor would cut down on those types of cases. Remove it from killer when Killer bots are introduced.
Reduction in price/include original chapters:
Right now, anyone who's just purchased the game has only 5 killers(7 if they play on console) and 7 survivors(9 if they play on console). Some of the best perks are only available on chapters that you have to buy, and they're from chapters that have been out for years.
I'd suggest adding the original chapters up to Chapter 14: Cursed Legacy for console.
For pc, I'd suggest adding the original chapters up to Chapter 10: Darkness Among Us.
For Ultimate edition, add original chapters up to Chapter 26: Forged in Fog.
I'd like for something like this to happen. The idea is for people that are new to be able to compete with Pay-To-Play players by including/reduction-in-price-for certain chapters.
Please be civil in the replies.
Btw, I am speaking as someone who has probably spent well over $300 on Dead By Daylight.
Yes, I also think it would be better if there were no more DC penalties BUT then the system has to be adapted like in games like e.g. in League of Legends.
If you leave the game for whatever reason (connection lost, ragequit, etc.) you will be replaced by a bot. However, and now the change comes, you then have the option to rejoin the match and can no longer enter the queue until the match is completed.
When you join the still open match, you logically replace your own bot.
So even players who had a real disconnect due to internet problems (which is definitely the absolute minority of all discornnects in DBD) have the opportunity to rejoin.
For all those who think they have to intentionally ruin the gaming experience for the other 4 players on a regular basis, a permanent punishment should be given at some point.
If the game bothers them so much, they can switch to single-player games.
Remove hook suicides or at least limit it to 1 try only is also long overdue.
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@kingchris200 said:
U have no right to add a penalty if someone dc or quits this needs to be stop.people have a right to quit if they want no one should be pen to play a game.
Yes, I also think it would be better if there were no more DC penalties BUT then the system has to be adapted like in games like e.g. in League of Legends.
If you leave the game for whatever reason (connection lost, ragequit, etc.) you will be replaced by a bot. However, and now the change comes, you then have the option to rejoin the match and can no longer enter the queue until the match is completed.
When you join the still open match, you logically replace your own bot.
So even players who had a real disconnect due to internet problems (which is definitely the absolute minority of all discornnects in DBD) have the opportunity to rejoin.
For all those who think they have to intentionally ruin the gaming experience for the other 4 players on a regular basis, a permanent punishment should be given at some point.
If the game bothers them so much, they can switch to single-player games.
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how old are you, please tell me this is a joke.
Believe me when I tell you, not everyone is so politically motivated or interested that they think about it and if they do, they have other major problems in their life.
Anyway, I wish you luck that a dev finds a solution to your problem. I would try support and open a ticket there:
https://support.deadbydaylight.com/hc/en-us/requests/new -
@Pablomarda said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3785600#Comment_3785600
Laziness and greed is slowly but surely declining video game industries and quality games.
Sadly, that's true. But of course you also need people who will buy everything and get ripped off.
Diablo Immortal and overall p2w mobile games in China are not too successful for nothing. It takes the right understanding of today's gamer persona for this to work.