SaltyNooty
SaltyNooty
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Distortion & Lethal Pursuer
Distortion is good for shutting down aura reading perks and shuts down Lethal & BBQ. (Personally, i think it needs 3 token's instead of 2.)
Lethal Pursuer because it gives killers a VERY powerful start by revealing all survivors for 9 seconds, and buffing other aura reading perks like BBQ.
Pain Res neck and neck with it though. (I often see Killers running LP, BBQ, Pain Res, PGTW.) or something like that. -
@ManOMaker said:
Can be big or small, for example I like the release of Houndmaster, I think she's really fun and I really wish BHVR focused for on originals and whatnot, and another example being I'm not a fan of the generator-being-blocked-from-damage-after-too-many-hits mechanic now.
What'd'y'all think?
A good Change was the hound master. I like playing against her, and all houndmasters have personality when they her. The only annoying thing I'd say about her getting caught by that damn dog. It's almost impossible to get free and it's often a guaranteed hit.
Personally, I'd prefer if getting bit by the dog was more like Deathslinger in the sense that it's easier to break free from.
A bad change? Finisher Moris. I can't explain to you how annoying it is, seeing more frequent instances of Killers slugging the second-to-last survivor just to get a free mori. I will never agree with that update for as long as I continue to play this game.
(Besides the fact that Killers had the Mori offering for a reason, that was just a free handout to killers for no reason.) -
I have no opinion on it because i was one of the people who despised Skull Merchant from the very MOMENT she entered the game.
Of course, as of now, SM isn't that bad to play against as long as you're paying attention, but back then she was god awful lol.
Though, I'm not surprised to see the amount of Doom Posting from killer mains, it's expected for those who probably still play that THING.Also, for the love of god, please stop saying "SWF" this & "SWF" that. Any competent Survivor, With or without a team could figure out how to use Aura Reading to their Advantage, SWF isn't the end all be all.
Sheesh. -
I main David & Felix because they're attractive lol, there's no other good reason for it. David King has always been my main man, bonus points because he's gay and hot-tempered as a character.
Every other Character I might have is only there for the Perks and the Builds I can make for Davey. -
@Megaspyder said:
They say things like "Survivors have too many 2nd chances", "Survivors get handheld by bhvr" or "They get too much help with basekits and features"
Why do they say such things?
For the reactions. I, in good faith, cannot take any killer seriously when they say that the game is "Survivor-Sided" or "Survivors are Spoonfed" when BHVR CONTINUES to actively prove otherwise.
What it really comes down to is Killers raging at SWF without paying attention to SoloQ just to make things more and more difficult for SWFS to do as they do. Survive. With. Their. Friends.
As everyone knows, any change made to SoloQ can be abused in the hands of SWF and this leads killers into throwing a fit about how SWF are just "Too powerful." when it's just them properly communicating.
Case and point, Background Player.
https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Background_Player#6.6.0
This perk was immensely complained about because it allowed people to get crazy distance and Flashbang/Flashlight Saves more often. Given to the hands of SWF and it made the game far more challenging to Killers. They didn't like that. -
@CrossTheSholf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3899142#Comment_3899142
Then wouldn't killers need buffs to be able to stay against swfs?
No.
Because that's how we GOT into this situation to begin with.
That is literally how SoloQ got so miserable, a domino effect of SWF being so OP and powerful and Killers complaining, then survivors complaining, then Killers complaining then survivors complaining in an endless loop of agony and misery.
At some point, people have to come to terms with certain things and inevitability, SWF is one of them. -
@CrossTheSholf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3898812#Comment_3898812
Those all buff SWF as well
Any buff to Survivors buffs SWF and that's something that has to be lived with, tbh.
SWF are always going to be more powerful because it's communication and planning ahead of time in comparison to being thrown into a match with a bunch of randoms. That's something that really can't be avoided. -
@LordDeathly said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3898688#Comment_3898688
You mean admitting to my whole team being slugged out on the ground while the killer watches us bleed out at 5 gens? No this isn't a strategy. This wasn't some 3v1 scenario. This was at 5 gens a killer has my whole team on the floor while he is standing there bleeding us out. If this wasn't a issue then why are they adding in a surrender option in the next update for this exact scenario? Hmmm I wonder. 🤔
I'm trying to save you, lol. I've been where you are and i've done what your doing. I used to make forums and posts about how solo q was bad and killers were being scummy, trashy, always playing sweaty for 4ks, being overly toxic.
I made the same mistake of admitting (Years ago.) That I DC'd on a match because I ran into the same huntress 3 TIMES IN A ROW ON CONSOLE and caught a temporary ban of like 2 or 3 months by a certain mod.
I still and will NEVER agree with how that situation was handled, but it's happened and I'm trying to prevent it for you. -
@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3898680#Comment_3898680
if BHVR actually stood by their community and made soloQ less miserable
Our question is: how?
There's plenty of ways to do so, but here's a start.
- Unnerf Medkits
- Finisher Mori can't be activated unless the survivor is on death hook and they're the last in trial. (Which isn't always the case.)
- If a killer is Camping a slugged player, increase their recovery speed by 30%. ( At least till they're at least 40 meters out of range, so no TR camping.)
I can't say I speak for everyone, but I know that Nerfing the Self-healing of Medkits was NOT a good change. Finisher Moris should never be guaranteed, I still don't know why they added this, it only incentivized slugging WAYYYY more.
And slugging is self-explanatory. No, i did not say give Survivors base kit Unbreakable, I just said to increase their recovery speed.
Of course, all of these are opinionated and subjective, but at least I came with ideas. -
@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3898663#Comment_3898663
There are no clips of normal ping where hits are obviously bad.
I'm gonna preface you with the fact that you sound very ignorant when you say this, because it would take a quick search on IG, YT or TT to find some pretty crazy hits from killers, by streamers who play this game. But, i'll humor this and give you some direction.
So, there's this guy called skillcheckk, he's a streamer, right? On his tiktoks, which is specifically cut to show outrageous moments in DBD, like when he's looping or when he has these very same moments we're talking about (He calls them snipers.) there are these clips (The same ones you're looking for, BTW, Stay with me.) where he's fully through the window ON THE OTHER SIDE and he still gets hit.
Or perhaps Mish? I'm sure some people have heard of her. Watching her streams, i've seen some killers get some wild hits from quite a distance.
I could sit here and list all the DBD players I've seen get clips of Killers getting hits that they shouldnt, but, my point stands is that instead of actively sitting here Proving my point by saying "I haven't seen it" or "It hasn't happened to me, so it's just you." We could all open our eyes to smell the roses and realize, this is infact, an actual thing happening. -
@LordDeathly said:
I keep getting games where the killer keeps trolling, and slugs all 4 survivors down, and we are left there to bleed out. I keep getting a dc penality cause I keep running into these games only in chaos shuffle where the killer likes to troll. It's making me not enjoy DBD when I am being punished for leaving a match where the killer likes to troll. I guess I shouldn't play chaos shuffle then.
Just a note: Openly admitting to a DC here can get you warned or temp banned IIRC. You might want to be careful about that 😂
But, main topic, I whole heartedly agree with you that it's egregious on how they're behaving. -
@LordGlint said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/KPCQP6NX8HTY/17407449274672801618010449727429.jpg
Haven't really been playing much lately with the exception some 2v8 matches over the weekend, but saw a Pig video yesterday and figured I kinda wanna play her since I usually dont. Figured I'd try getting some dash value at loops...
This morning, I log on and hop on Pig... I've played 2 games so far and BOTH have ppl trying to "go next" on the first hook of the match immediately. First guy succeeded... 2nd guy got rescued before he could do more than hit 2nd stage. This is essentially proof that ppl will do this against ANYONE for no reason except they got caught.
No matter how I put this, it's gonna sound like I'm condoning Go Next or DCing but at the end of the day, you can't really stop players from deciding to leave the game if they DONT want to be in a match anymore lol. People will find ways around NOT playing a match they won't find joy in.
A solid case and point is the DC penalty that was added. When people were punished for dcing? What did they do? They gave up on hook, which is a mechanic of the game you can't really stop or prevent.
What this simply falls down to is an issue of players being players and a group of devs choosing to ignore their players and when players are outraged by an killer, update, or survivor?
They don't play the game as intended and instead, they find work arounds to make the game as miserable as possible for both sides. -
@mecca said:
Survivor role simply sucks. But yes, can't wait for BHVR to come with the pro-killer solution of punishing survivors with treating the symptoms rather than dealing with the actual problems.
This.
Half of the "Go Next" and "DC" mentalities would leave, if BHVR actually stood by their community and made soloQ less miserable because that's a good majority of community in DBD - Solo Q.
If BHVR decided to smell the roses and improve Soloq, the state of the game wouldn't be as horrendous as it is now and we'd be seeing alot less "Go next" players and dcers and that's just the simple truth. -
@xCakeStick said:
It works as intended. Yours and the killer ping are also a factor when it comes to this.
8/10 Bait. If we could lock-in for a couple seconds, we'd realize that this has been an issue for years that Bhvr has actively ignored and refused to solve when you are NOWHERE in range of the vault, window or lunge and yet somehow; it hits.
It doesn't and should never come down to a "Lol, I've never experienced this so it must be a you thing." When people have been saying this for YEARS. There's countless clips of evidence that prove that it's an issue that needs to be resolved. So, please, let's not act like it does. -
@PubStar87 said:
Genuine question. I'm not.
Meh, I guess it'd depend on the day.
I don't enjoy going on 20+ losing streaks but there are some games that I do enjoy even if I lose.
I definitely don't like being finisher mori'd and I still think that update was dumb and equally as unnecessary, regardless of what people might say. (There was and STILL IS a mori offering for a Reason.)
BHVR still refuses to fix window/pallet vaults and being hit from 10 miles away, they still refuse to address the SluggingFest to ensure the finisher mori or that 4K
I sometimes get teammates that play like they just started.
There are still killers with insane kits that make it seem like they can just do everything (Dracula.) or, are completely insufferable to play against. (Twins.)
But, i'd be lying if I said there wasn't some matches where even if I do die, i had a fun killer to play against. It just depends on WHO the killer is and their personality.
SoloQ has always been ABSOLUTELY MISERABLE though, for as long as I can remember and I've been playing since 2018-2019. Any time there's any update or change to any Killer/Survivor/Map, I set my expectations for BHVR a little bit lower because it's often obvious that they're not aware of the very community they're pushing away lmao.
So, the bar is in hell for "If I can enjoy a match" and trust me, rock bottom has a basement. -
@Eleghost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/419096/game-becomes-more-and-more-killer-sided
The game isn't meant to be balanced. It's supposed to be killer sided but i believe the issue began to stem when they started adding 3 perks per new character added and certain perks for both sides definitely have caused a lot of unfun times. Another big issue is map design, i feel no one wants to deal with certain maps depending which role you play but they've been making them smaller when maps are reworked most of the time. I mean look at haddonfield now it's very tiny compared to what it was. You're also playing a game where someone has to lose (most of the time being survivors) and no one wants to deal with that.
I truly dislike seeing this argument being used to deflect, dissuade, and defend killers to their last breath, it's such an invalid, trivial statement to use.
Just because the game is supposed to be killer-sided, does not mean that the matches have to be absolutely miserable and every new killer added has to be able to steamroll survivors no matter what they do. The main focus is that 30/70, 40/60 split that the killers hold more than survivors do, but that scale has been FAR tipped to an extreme that makes playing survivor a living hell if you're not IN a SWF.
It's not so much the fact that Survivors have to lose something to win, it's the fact that Survivors are now ALWAYS losing. There's no fun or merit to a game where playing the opposite means getting crushed before you can even get started or getting snowballed with no way of turning the match around after.
I find it generally unhealthy to be on a constant losing streak to the point where you walk into a game and you expect to die before even completing the main task at hand. At that point, why play?
Do I expect to die? Absolutely. You're not guaranteed to win as a Survivor, that's never been the case.
But as of late, especially in the event, it's become FAR too easy for the killer side to just get hooks and kills before survivors even pop a single gen, and that's if the killer doesn't just smack it with PGTW or P-Res
The maps, save for some places, have little to do with the general misery of Survivors. -
@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3749189#Comment_3749189
Killers cannot lobby dodge perks. Meaning at the end of the day the killer will have to face things they don't like.
Also it's irrelevant that survivors can't lobby dodge killers when both sides can lobby dodge other survivors. Killers have no way to quit a trial early, because they don't like how it is going without penalty and survivors shouldn't have a free get out of trial card they can pull.
There's nothing hypocritical about it, you're just making up excuses why you think it's okay to rage quit as a survivor and if you are spending this much time trying to justify not playing out matches you queued for then maybe you should stop playing a game you spend effort to not play.
The fact you can't see the flaw in your own argument is insane to me, I literally broke it down to you and anyone else with your sentiment 3 times already. You must really believe your logic is sound, huh?
Hell, even Laluzi understands the point I've made; so how could you not?
In all my posts referring to you or anyone else with your sentiment, I didn't state nor imply a single time that Hook Suciding was okay, there is no excuse to be made, merely just the facts that somehow; you haven't concluded too. There's no justification to be made because you CAN'T Justify it.
If I'm putting this bluntly, this whole debate is a moot point. It is quite literally the Minority going against the Majority, It's doesn't work out in the favor you want it too. Any solution you've presented will be met with another creatively annoying idea to avoid having to face the killers, that survivors don't want. It's a fact that cannot be ignored or denied, a survivor will do whatever it takes to get taken out of a match they don't want to play. Full-Stop.
It is a fact the minds of the masses won't be changed by forcing them to play the match. Full-Stop.
It is a fact that You won't be able to filter every survivor out because they don't want to face XYZ Killer. Full-Stop.There is nothing more to be said on this matter.
-
@Laluzi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3749142#Comment_3749142
You're still missing the point, though. I don't think anyone disagrees that hook suicides should be punished. They ruin the game for everyone. The problem you're avoiding is that it's basically impossible to implement a mechanic that prevents survivors from throwing games, because on paper, the reportable behavior - essentially griefing or quitting, depending on what flavor it takes - is indistinguishable from survivors playing badly. And you can't report being bad.
It's a moot point, because successfully reporting anyone in this game is extremely difficult, but it's a problem that's more involved than simply saying 'this game mechanic needs to be reportable.' Because survivors will then move onto the next action that is not reportable but gets them yeeted from the game immediately.
To a human eye, it's obvious when a player is trying to ragequit versus when it's just a confused newbie, but without match replay to provide that human eye… the data tracking this game currently employs is incapable of making that distinction and thus punishing players for it in a timely fashion (and a fashion that doesn't rely on other players having active video software as they play, and being in a position to record the player trying to get themselves killed.)
This, This right here; someone who actually understands. Thank GOD.
-
@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3749137#Comment_3749137
Survivors can also lobby dodge and lobby dodging and hook suiciding are two different things as only one of those is quitting mid match.
If you want rage quit matches, you should be punished. Hook suiciding is not a punished especially when you can no longer depip. Hook suicides need to be removed or harsh penalties need to applied to survivors who do hook suicide, because the rest of the teammates don't even get a bot for your rage quit.
It's irrelevant that most of the players are survivors when it comes to reporting people for throwing games and ruining it for the rest of the survivors. Reportable behavior is still reportable.
Again if you want to filter what killers you are willing to play against, that is what custom lobbies are for. If you queue for survivor normally you have to accept that people will play things you don't like. If you cannot then DBD is simply not the right game for you.
Like I said, It's a futile effort to report them but if you believe this is the best course of action, then by all means. Commit to it.
Also, the point of me bringing up lobby dodging and Hook Suciding was to point out the fact BOTH sides of the means to avoid issues they don't want to deal with. Survivors can't lobby dodge killers because they don't know what killer they'll face to till they load in, while killers get the ability to see what survivors they'll face and what Item's they'll bring and how they'll counter it; resulting in the uptick of Franklin's Demise & Weave Attunement.
Case and point being, both sides have a way to avoid people. This whole "When you play DBD, you accept the fact you'll deal with things you don't like" crumbles when killers can freely lobby dodge without criticism, that's filtering what survivors they go against; that's also what custom lobbies are for.
Your own argument has such hypocritical flaws, it's best you just DONT use that anymore. -
@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3749113#Comment_3749113
It's funny how you say Killers can just D/C, but that action invokes a penalty. Removing suiciding on hook would force survivors who want to quit to d/c otherwise they risk getting banned if they are intentionally throw the game.
If you absolutely refuse to play against Skull Merchant then don't queue for a mode where facing her is a possibility. Find other people for customs who will agree to not play Skull Merchant.
You missed the point of my statement.
If Survivors don't want to play a match, They wont.
If Killers don't want to play a match, They wont
Survivors have Hook-Suciding.
Killers have Lobby Dodging.
Also, I love how you willingly cherry-picked some type of flaw in the statement I made to prove your point. So, allow me to break it down to you a little further because you seem to still not understand (That or, you're willingly choosing to ignore it and if that is the case, this is the last time I will be responding to you. I won't face someone who chooses to weaponize ignorance, that's a waste of my time. )
If you take away Hook Suciding, Players will simply AFK. If they AFK and you kill them or bleed them out. They. Win.
- Subsequently, if you stoop to the survivor's level of Petty and force them to stay in match for an hour; that's a waste of your time and theirs; no one wins and everyone suffers.
It takes two seconds to simply let them leave the match and move on to something else. Reporting the masses for AFKing will backfire because a massive chunk of the community IS survivors. If you look at this long-term, eventually, people will get used to being reported and suspended for refusing to face the minority of the game and queues will eventually slow down.
You won't be able to filter every single person who refuses to face XYZ killer because XYZ reason (Now this stems beyond Skull Merchant just for a brief moment because if we're being brutally honest, something like this can happen in every game if weaponized. )
This is a losing debate. You can't change the mind of the masses and any attempt to do so will be met with more protest and backlash; more ways to NOT have to face 1 killer out of the many, more ways to not face any number of killers because XYZ reason.
Do you understand now? -
@HerInfernalMajesty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3748712#Comment_3748712
“Report this player for purposefully losing the game”
It’s a form of ragequitting which is indeed reportable.
@HerInfernalMajesty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3748895#Comment_3748895
This is beyond Dc’ing which is handled automatically. It’s that people openly admit to breaking the Unsportsmanlike conduct rule, and since it “can’t” be enforced it creates a loophole to ruin other player’s games.
Pulsar, I like you. But you have a way with words in that it feels like you are trying to convince me that purposefully losing the game against SM is somehow not purposefully losing the game under the Unsportsmanlike rule.
Giving up against a Killer you don’t like is Unsportsmanlike conduct, full-stop. It may be protesting conduct but it’s still against the rules.
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3748224#Comment_3748224
AFK is bannable. So is griefing. Intentionally not playing the normal game, believe it or not, is bannable.
These type of things tread a very thin line that gets blurred when we literally have to drag in the IN GAME Definition of what is rage-quitting, Rage-Quitting is commonly referred to DCING; Refusing to play a match is something that's not within the lines of Rage-Quitting, but it's debatedly close.
Dying on hook is a mechanic of the game that rewards the killer with points for completing their task.
Dying on hook is a mechanic of the game that barely rewards the survivor for "Doing their best" Despite the fact that they failed the trial.
Bleeding out is a mechanic of the game that rewards the killer with points (but arguably less) because they killed a survivor.
Bleeding out is a mechanic of the game that barely rewards survivors for "Doing their best despite the fact they failed the trial.
If you think that reporting a player who made use of a mechanic of the game to get out of the match is something that'll work out in the long run, you're in for a rude awakening. Matching Petty with Petty wont work in this argument because killers LITERALLY CANNOT get pettier than survivors.
This whole topic of "Report them for refusing to face me" Falls short when both sides are mechanics in the game that's meant to be there. Whether or not you like it, Choosing to kill them or bleed them out will result in a loss of your side of the debate because Survivors get what they want.
A means to escape the match. -
@SkeletonDance said:
I know this is a 105832785328 post about her, but every match with her there is at least 1 survivor that gives up against her and kills himself on hook. Sometimes it's the entire team. This is okay when this happens like once from time, but not like almost every match with her. I know everyone complains about her, but situations like this really ruins trials and waste a time
@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3748637#Comment_3748637
If you're going out of your way to blew up the gen at every skill check, you are hardly "doing a gen". If you are simply griefing.
If you really can't handle facing skull merchant, then play customs with people who agree to not play her.
@HerInfernalMajesty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3748544#Comment_3748544
Well, here’s the thing… we do both; enforce the rules while gathering data.
Pulsar, I hope you aren’t suggesting that it’s okay to break the rules for things you personally dislike.
I feel like what people aren't understanding is that survivors will genuinely always find a way to remove themselves from a game they don't want to be in, just like how a killer will DC from a match for any numerous amount of reasons.
Attempting to punish the majority of survivors, punishes ALL survivors, unintentionally or not; and if I'm being frank, punishing all survivors because they refused to face a killer that is genuinely unfun to face, doesn't seem healthy. Sure, you could hit the report button and be done with it, (Because they refused to play a normal match in which often results in a 4K no matter what type of circumstance.) but the situation wouldn't really be resolved; In a situation like this,
Killers CANNOT MEET Survivors' level of petty. It literally will not work, there is no idea or source that someone could come up with that Survivors couldn't immediately find a workaround to continue not having to face said ANY number of killers they despise.
If you take away their ability to hook-suicide, they AFK. (And you literally cannot stop a player from Afking. That just doesn't work out.)
If you take away their ability to AFK, they STILL get what they want. (Say if they AFK too long in the match and they get turned into a bot, it's still in their favor.)
I guarantee you that no one wants to sit in an hour-long match, this is the only option that works to no one's favor.
If this topic is about Skull Merchant and subsequently, getting people to stop giving up against her for "fun matches." The issue here in lies that most of the survivor base and even part of the killer base don't find Skull Merchant fun and frankly never have since the start.
(It seems like there's an actual minority of killers who enjoy Skull Merchant in comparison to the rest of the community, who despises her more than any other killer in this ENTIRE GAME.) -
@RedPoncho12 said:
Maybe I’m blind to it but I haven’t seen anyone really talk about the mechanics of this anniversary event. What’s the general consensus on it? I personally am not a huge fan of this event but I do think their are some aspects about it that are very fun 🤷♂️
Edit: just saw a guy post something similar to this after posting lol
The event is good for BP but otherwise it's pretty…Meh.
I say that because beyond what's given to us, all it really does it bring out the sweats who max out at 2M BP and just run annoyingly powerful builds that are difficult to counter. That and because most of the Cards are lowkey….useless for Survivors
Speed - Makes it like 10x easier for the killer to catch you in a loop
Peekaboo - Free BBQ but for everyone. (It honestly benefits Killer more then survivor.)
Heal You, Expose you - (This is one of the only good ones if you can wait it out, but otherwise Meh.)
Wait, Where? - More in favor of the killer than survivors, basically turns all killers into stealth machines for the next 30 seconds. Nothing more terrifying than a Bubba or Billy coming up from behind and 3-man downing you at a gen.
For Killers though, this event is probably great. Makes it super easy to get kills, unsurprisingly. -
@Raccoon said:
Self-Care/Botany/Windows/Overcome
I have various ones, so I'll give you my top three.
Lightweight/Urban Evasion/Fixated/Boil Over
(This is my Stealthing build, and Boil Over just in case I get caught; But it's interchangeable with Distortion TBH.)
Deja Vu/ProveThy/Resilience/No Mithera
( My Gen Rushing build, It's usually very effective in getting gens done and surprisingly capable of evasion too.)
Adren/Lightweight/Kindred/Spine Chill
( My Causal Solo Q Build, Considering removing Adren though.)
And all of them go on my boy David, because he is my soul. -
@CountOfTheFog said:
I was just thinking about how much these forums have changed the way I play both roles and was wondering if anyone else has ever drastically changed their playstyle and/or avoided adopting one due to concerns raised?
For example, when MFT came out and I saw the disdain Killers had for it, I used it in one match in which it was required for a Tome Challenge and never touched it again.
I'm currently avoiding the FD + Weave combo because of the Survivor frustrations.
I used to proxy camp and Tunnel, now it will only happen if I'm provoked (T-bagging) or if it's really getting late game.
Those are a few examples. Have you experienced this? Changing your playstyle due to reading fellow forum users concerns.
Sometimes, but that was way back when i was new to the forums; and god knows my posts were absolutely horrific and objectively wrong.
I do use the forums to sometimes stay informed and aware of whats going on, beyond the 'Us vs them' bait and "Nerf Survivor/Nerf Killer' bait. The forum has influenced SOME of how I play, but not to any toxic or horrific degree. -
@Jwmj said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3743631#Comment_3743631
If it's not enjoyable then don't play? Nobody is forcing you to play. It's a PVP game. I'm going to kill you when I queue as a KILLer.
Gotta love entitled bait posts that clearly dont paint you in good light….
@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3743631#Comment_3743631
If you aren't enjoying the game, don't play it. You're spending too much energy on hating other players.
Where in their statement, did you feel any sort of change in tone or disdain, distaste towards OTHERS?
I believe, OP's post is solely to vent and note about the ridiculous amount of tunneling during this event, which is a valid point since generally everyone (Except for the people who are graced by the gods of not being tunneled, or killers.) that this event has seen the GREATEST uptick in tunnelers ever dated so far.
To say that they're "Spending their energy HATING on other people." is a reach out of left field and is completely disingenuous to OP's intention. Find your purpose elsewhere cause clearly, this isn't it. 🙏 -
@Junylar said:
I always say gg after every game where I tunnel the first survivor out of the game as soon as possible, slug for 4k and bleed the last one alive, before hooking and slapping him while nodding of course, because I'm a good sport and a kind person. Too bad survivors are usually not so sportsmanlike and nice in response for some reason, but I guess some people just like being toxic.
I'm….very uncertain of whether or not this is legitimate or bait. Like this HAS to be 100% ironic.
Why say GG when you resort, or resorted to the big three…? And then wonder why survivors aren't so "sportsmanlike" in return?
It's almost like you used a 'Tactic' of the game that's generally considered (And OFTEN DEBATED) a scummy way to play and then expected to be treated like a good sport? And then slapped them on hook while nodding your head…?
????? -
@Budara1991 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3740545#Comment_3740545
Quiet mode and spawn pallets is fine tho? Why are Survs allowed to have several abilities at once but killers dont?
I guess you weren't paying attention by the fact that literally ALL survivor abilities get countered by the killers abilities + their perks. Killers get to effectively SNOWBALL survivors by reducing stun, destroying pallets (Instantly) & Remote Hooking.
It's literally one sided and this ISN'T for debate.
Case in point. No gens done, all of us killed before even one gen pops; killer walked away with at least 45K+. (Vecna BTW) There is no room for killers to say "The games are still survivor sided." With displays like this that show STONE cold evidence that it's NOT. Please, get together.
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@Jay_Whyask said:
Every game I've played as survivor killers noticeably struggles to finish chases, and as killer I can see why.
Survivors just… Don't leave scratch marks sometimes. It's so easy to just loop shack & leave whenever you want because the game will reliably hide your scratches.
No Lightweight, Lucky Break, or whatever that undetectable Tryk is called.
It's like everybody has tier 5 Lightweight.
Quiet Mode hides scratch marks, pools of blood and injured noises IIRC.
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@legiondoctor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3739933#Comment_3739933
You must be playing a different event cause this event is survivor sided
On a survivor sided game
Alright, so I'm going to come from a place of objectivity, because clearly; you must be new here and haven't been paying attention very well.
DBD hasn't been survivor sided since way back in 2021-2022 when they took out all the meta perks that survivors used to run, from there it's been a consistent snowball on the survivors side of ridiculously broken killers coming out with unreasonably powerful perks that then catch a nerf or buff to this day.
With exceptions of survivors like Mikela with her boons, ( I wont lie, COH was broken frame one.) -
@legiondoctor said:
This event is already not fun
What…. exactly are we talking about here? How are they ruining an event that's situated more for the killer than it is for the survivors? Half the matches made are done before 2 gens can be completed, the insane amount of value a killer can get from all the new abilities is ACTUALLY insane.
For instance, being able to INSTANTLY teleport a survivor to a hook…?
Have you actually been playing the games or are we just complaining without any merit, like the usual? -
@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3739124#Comment_3739124
I mean why not just increase the duration of the haste or the speed boost itseld, make it so the survivor completely loses collision for that duration. Or go even further turn them invisible without collision for that duration? The same as Vecna's artifact... Of course this needs to deactivate when all gens are done and under certain other conditions and so on, but at least this would prevent tunneling. Question is only do you want to get rid of it in any way shape or form or only make it harder? Get rid of it: invisible, make it harder: lose collision and more/longer haste.
The only reasonable tunneling I'll accept with a bit of salt is when it endgame or when the killer doesn't have any death hooks survivors towards 1 or POSSIBLY 2 gens left, so the intention here isn't to COMPLETELY get rid of it; hence why my suggestion pushed it so it deactivates during EGC.
It just needs to be made MUCH harder
The problem with increasing the haste speed is that it doesn't really FIX the issue unless the survivor gets a (50% - 75%) Haste boost to actually create distance for the duration of their basekit BT. -
@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/417187/the-anti-tunneling-solution-or-solutions
Ok… So let me get this right, the window to activate the feature is 8 seconds, but if it activates during this 8 seconds it stays until chase is broken? So what exactly keeps a survivor from chasing after you and forcing chase onto you?
Yeah, basically the gist of it is.
See, that'd be the only issue with it; intentionally forcing the killer to take chase, unfortunately, I've got nothing in back pocket to circumvent that.
A reasonable work around would be that the hindered stats last about a minute WHILE in chase and only in chase
- and after the killer leaves chase, it deactivates until the next time that survivor is hooked; but that creates the loophole in and of itself that all a Killer would have to do is take chase, suffer the status; LEAVE chase for a couple of seconds and then go right back to them.
TBH though, that would be a more optimal choice since it gives the survivor a chance to evade them for a time being.@Seraphor said:
Anything that 'deactivates on protection hits' just encpurages the killer to smack you immediately after you get unhooked and force a protection hit.
And as Archol123 suggests, the unhooked survivor could just remain in chase to sustain this 25% hindered on the killer, preventing the killer from catching them or the unhooker.
Why are these suggestions always from people who very obviously never play killer?
Bestie, I don't really see you suggesting anything; though, I will admit, I DID mention THAT particular way to abuse it. I don't have any counter-arguments the specific usage of said suggestion besides adding a time limit.
@Mr_K said:
You can't choose who you are in chase with. If the unhooked survivor and rescuing survivor run within the killer's FoV, they will be in a chase with both.
So if the killer is actively trying to avoid the unhooked survivor they can still be punished. With a decrease of 25% movement speed they would be functionally slower than the survivors unable to catch up. All the survivors would need to do is run together to hinder the killer unjustly.
On the other end, chase can be ignored by looking down. As long as the survivor is not running within the killer's FoV the chase never starts. Bypassing the "punishment".
Not gonna lie, I didn't know killers could avoid chase by looking down, not that it can be complained about. The entire point is to discourage tunneling, nothing more, nothing less.
@Royval said:
This would kill dbd.
The only thing It'd do is WEED OUT the killers who have to Consistently tunnel to get kills. We can all agree that the tunneling rate is HIGHER than it's ever been before right, why not actually make a post to do something about it.
Not that I expect even the SLIGHTEST bit of it to be taken into consideration, IIRC the devs either made it implicitly or explicitly clear they won't fix any problems relating to slugging or tunneling, though I'm NOT sure which one.@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3739086#Comment_3739086
No idea what you are going on about, because I made no mention that the killer should get kills with no effort. But if the killer is effortlessly killing you, there's a different problem at play and it's not tunneling.
I'm….gonna need you to re-read what I just said because it seems like the point was skipped over your head.
I don't recall saying YOU said it, I referred to the phrase "The killers job is to kill….?"??? -
@Crowman said:
The problem is that there's nothing innately wrong with tunneling. Saboing just got buffed and can be used to deny hooks which is a way to counter tunneling. You have perks like DS and OTR and you have basekit BT to prevent being killed immediately off hook.
The killer's main job is to kill you. If they want to focus you out, there is nothing wrong with it. Just like how survivors are free to focus on getting individual gens done and not just run around equally progressing every gen.
Let's be real here. If a killer wanted you out of the game, REGARDLESS of OTR, DS, or BT; they'll take you out the game without hesitation, there isn't much a survivor can do to ESCAPE getting tunneled out of a game if a killer commits themselves to it. We're talking full on IGNORING other survivors no matter the circumstances, even if they're body blocking, even if they're flashlight saving, no matter WHAT they do.
It creates a snowball that curbs the game in SECONDS because a 4 v 1 can be considered an even match despite the fact it's not, but the moment it's a 3 v 1; it's OVER, especially if there's still gens to do. ( It happens too often to be brushed aside.)
But there's EVERYTHING a killer can do smack a gen and hit you with a regress that'll take you from a 90% to a 40% in just a couple of seconds, there's everything a killer can do to make the game living hell to actually play. The majority of the power system stems from the killer, we're at a stage where killers can play a match and win with little effort, even to competent players.
Also, the argument "The killer's job is to kill you" Falls short when I bring in the point that the point of survivor is to " Survive by any means. "
- Which results in flashlight saves, CJ Techs, Saboing hooks, body blocking; Swfing…all things killers consider powerful, annoying or overly toxic.
It's disingenuous and MOVES the goal post, not to mention; what that essentially says is, "If a killer can't effortlessly get kills, the game isn't fair." Which…no one wants, yes? -
@EmpireCity830 said:
I just feel like most games 4-5 gens are getting done. On killer it is really annoying by the time I have found, chased, downed and hooked 1 person 2 gens are done and a 3rd is 50%+. Or 3 gens are really close to being done. On solo-q is just as annoying. I hate getting found first, chased, downed and hooked in less than 2 min and spend most of my time on hook rather than doing gens and helping teammates. If this happened every now and then ok it's not a big deal but this is nearly every game for both cases. Makes this game really frustrating at times.
I also feel that the kill rate for killers across the board is deceptive and doesn't take into account the pace of play. I've had many games where I get 3 or 4 kills but there is 1 to 0 gens remaining and I didn't start getting pressure until 2 gens were done and a 3rd about to be completed. Point here being that just cause I got a 4k it doesn't mean that pace of play isn't a problem.
The sad part is that idk what to do to fix it and make it so that every player has a chance to play the game and not feel super stressed out. Buffing either side too much would make play miserable for the other side.
Anyone have any ideas on what could be done to make the pace of play "balanced"?
Also, if there was some data on avg number of gens done and avg match time that would help. Cause I seriously feel like its 4.0 + for gens and time is less than 10 min per match.
The astounding mentality of " I won, but gens popped too fast; let's slow it down." is something that NEEDS to be studied because it's a dead giveaway of borderline entitlement.
Like…? If you won, move on. You achieved the task given to you at an incredibly boring rate and yet it's not enough? Don't know about most people here but if a killer gets 2/3 hooks on a survivor/getting a survivor to death-hook before first gen pops; that's a stomp unless the survivor gets lucky and finds hatch, let's be honest here.
Are we just gonna continue shifting the goal post of what's considered a win? Because right now, it seems like most killers lead with the " If I ain't steamrolling them out the gate, I'm not winning." or " If It's not a 4k before 3rd gen, I didn't win." -
@Marioneo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3738518#Comment_3738518
Even Otz hates these sabo changes shows how insanely these buffs are
Like he's a reliable person to base your opinion on. C'mon now, get real.
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@Nathan13 said:
i’m stuck in a killer match, 2 survivors left on backwater swamp with only one gen done. This Renato and Nea haven’t touched a gen the last 20 mins. And i’m losing my patience. This needs to be addressed.
I'm torn between saying this is actually taking the game hostage or not, though, I'm inclined to say that it's not because they're in a TERRIBLE situation. 4 gens left to do, and only 2 survivors? Of course, they'd hide, what else are they expected to do? HAND themselves over to you????
Though, i wont lie, 20 minutes is a bit long. I'd probably turn myself in after like 10. -
@FrostySeal said:
Scourge Pain Res is still a pretty good perk despite the nerf, however, PGTW is pretty terrible now leaving us with only one truly good gen regression perk, that being the former. Unlike all the other previous meta shake-ups there are no more gen regression perks to lean on, no secret underutilized perk that will now be catapulted to meta status like Call of Brine and Eruption after Ruin and Undying got nerfed, nothing.
So…What now? I highly doubt that PGTW will last any longer in the meta because of its pathetic 20% regression, so whats going to be meta now? Will No Way Out and Noed be the new meta combo? Will people rely more on Gen block perks like Grim Embrace and Deadlock even after they've been nerfed? Will hexes make a comeback? I'm curious to know what everyone thinks it will be because quite frankly looking at the perk selection Killers have right now I have zero clue as to what's going to be the new meta. It really feels as if Killers have no extremely powerful perks anymore leaving us instead with a bunch of much weaker, albeit still strong when combined perks now.
Still unsure why people are saying Pop is terrible, because 20% is NOT terrible.
And before anyone else comes to tag me and says "No, your wrong, it's pretty Dog****", Switch off survivor for a second and play like 5 rounds of survivor, solo q or not.
THEN come back to this same forum and look at what you were about to type. You lost a bit of value in a perk that's still pretty damn strong, why are we acting like the world's ending?
You kick a gen and we STILL lose like 30 seconds of gen progress because of it? Killers are STILL getting kills with the perk on lock… -
@Neaxolotl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3737923#Comment_3737923
If you think "winning" has any real meaning in a perk being good or not, you really have no idea about the game
You can literally "win" with no perks, it's just that SBMM not working properly
With your logic, no mither is not dead or meme because people use it and escape
I mean, the perk is doing its intended purposes and slowing the game down enough where the killer CAN win??? Isn't that the point of the perk????
Like, let's be real and use our brains for a second, it was given to us for a reason y'know.
If the perk is still being used + Killers are still winning with it regardless of its nerf = Not dead.
Not sure how much more simple it can get for you, I've never seen a killer win with no perks, that's practically a raw calling for them to get mixed; I'd give props to any killer that could win without any perks, but chances are they'd resort to proxy, slugging or tunneling; which y'know….doesn't really say much on their skill besides that.
Let's proof read what we type before posting it cause this is lowkey embarrassing; It's giving… " Just because killers win with it, doesn't make it good…" which is a very broad argument and can be used for PLENTY of things. 💀 -
@CountOfTheFog said:
It would have to at least wait until the loading screen. I'm dodging No Mither players and so would a lot of people lol 😆
Why no mithers hate, it's a REALLY good perk 😭
I'm one of those players who run no mithers, but usually with Resilience and Deja Vu cause funny gen speed. I can't tell you how many times I've used my build to speed up gens, juice the mess out of killers and turn around a 4-man slug. (Literally happened earlier when a Thana Legion kept getting Sabo'd, he unfortunately won but still got his stuff JUICED.) -
@OrangeBear said:
The stun is still 5 seconds on most killers
doesn't really change the fact it's not 5 seconds for ALL killers, which is (What I assume) OP's point, it shouldn't be like this in GENERAL.
-
Well, This is new….? Why IS this in here?
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@Dreamnomad said:
If you had the choice of generators taking 120 seconds to complete but you had to give up all perks that could effect generator progress, would you take it?
The purpose of the question is simple. You see complaints about gen speed all the time on the forums with players feeling that they are required to bring gen slow down perks. But if the gens took considerably longer to complete then you wouldn't need the gen slow down perks and could run fun perks instead. This is purely hypothetical. I'm not even suggesting that it is a good idea. I just want to know if players would be willing to give up something they are used to to get the opportunity to play a wider variety of perks.
If gens were 120, the game would be agonizing and die out a slow painful death by SoloQ becoming the most MISERABLE its EVER been; and to be honest, we're already nearing rock bottom, so y'know.
If they simply got rid of all-gen slowdown perks, put the gens back down to 80 seconds, the game would probably be in a healthier state; though the meta of DBD would simply shift over to running a more broken perk combination.
Most killers would probably immediately run to perks like Lethal + NtH and other aura reading abilities just make sure that they can safely, easily, and most definitely put pressure on survivors without needing to hit gens. Sure, it'd shake the DBD's core a bit but like any amount of people; killers would adapt quite quickly (IF their complaints dont immediately force BHVR to revert the update.) -
To my knowledge, yeah, you need to prestige the dnd character for it show up in other characters spider web; that or, complete it in the shrine of secrets.
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@Withered8 said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/0BGXX3DPNDSZ/screenshot-2024-06-10-145652.png
Let's hear thoughts:
Skull Merchant is sorta low (Put her in A tier if we're talking objectively.)
Chucky is too high (His Scamper got nerfed, and Slice/dice is hilariously dodgable, put him in B Tier)
Hillbilly is DEFINITELY too high. He's good but not better then bubba. High-mobility doesn't mean a thing if survivor can hug a rock and avoid the billy REFUSING to M1. (I am one of those survivors because both Billies and Bubbas couldn't M1 to save their lives.)
Vecna needs to be High-Tier A+, especially as he goes unnerfed as of this moment.
Bubba is too low for the ridiculous buff he was given (He was always a better billy TBH, A-Tier. )
Twins being lower than Artist and Plague is insane to me, especially given how they operate. (Equally as annoying as facing a skully, please put her higher then those two )
Xenomorph should be a tier higher for how absolutely BRAINDEAD it is for them to just M2 with little consequence and strike you through any pallet or vault given. (A+ Tier)
Onyro, Dredge and Legion being that low is a crime, especially for how easy it is for Legion to put on ONE perk and profit. (They all need to be in A-Tier.)
And the Singularity NOT being borderline S tier is insane to given how OPPRESSIVE he is.
I think every OTHER killer I haven't mentioned is okay, definitely could be better though. -
@Rauy556 said:
I feel like 20% of CURRENT progression is very bad, with the new pop the max theoretical time you could save is 18 seconds as opposed to 27 seconds pre-nerf. Now assuming you kick a gen that is at 50% progress it only loses 9 seconds now as opposed to 13.5 seconds pre-nerf, the disparity only gets worse the higher progress the generator is. Mind you they made this exact change to pop in the past before and ended up having to buff it since it turned out to be too weak.
I think the replacement to pop will turn out to be eruption, it has a flat TOTAL progress reduction of 10% which means in the worst case that you only kick one gen you will get 9 seconds of regression, now if at least 2 gens are kicked youll be getting the same total regression as applying the new pop on a 99.9% gen with the benefit of not having to travel to the gen and apply pop + also getting some information in the form of aura read/scream.
Overall though, this pop change is going to drastically change mid-low tier killers while barely changing anything with nurse/blight/spirit/billy. I unfortunately think this will lead to more killer players tunneling & slugging with said killers as they are not rewarded for chasing with mid-low tier killers. Let me know your thoughts and I'm open to any discussion :)
Dont know about you, but half the matches I see still have people using Pop + Pain Res and STILL winning matches.
Doesn't look dead to me but if (And keyword, IF) killers complain about it being too weak; i wouldn't be surprised. -
@jesterkind said:
There are a lot of things people like to say about Skull Merchant, and maddeningly, quite a lot of what's said is factually wrong, and even some of the stuff that isn't can be kind of misleading or misrepresented. This post isn't necessarily geared towards convincing you to like Skull Merchant, or even to stop hating her, but rather to try and make it so the discourse surrounding her is at least honest.
Fat chance, I'm aware, but maybe I'll convince some people.
I'm going to list some of the common complaints I see about Skull Merchant, and tackle each one in turn to explain why I think they aren't helpful and should probably be, like, retired. And not used anymore. Please?
1: "She takes no skill" / "She has no skill expression"
We'll start off with a pretty easy one. There are generally two things happening behind this statement, and both of them are things worth addressing. The first is that most people generally tend to not acknowledge the skill expression her kit does have, and that's typically because they don't even know it exists, so we'll start with that.
The Skull Merchant's skill expression comes in a few areas. General drone placement is important, largely for hiding them as traps but also because the nature of how they work means improper placement within a loop can make them useless, depending on what the loop in question is. There's also what some refer to as "lasertagging", which involves timing and aiming your drone placement mid-chase just right so you can instantly tag someone with a stack of Lock On as soon as the drone initialises and the beams come online.
Manually rotating the beams is a skill-expressive element of her kit as well, albeit to a lesser extent. It's also worth mentioning that she's still fundamentally an M1 killer, and you need to know how to do default M1 chases to play her well.
None of this is to convince you that Skull Merchant is cool and awesome and you should enjoy playing her. It's just to remind you that the initial statement - "she has no skill expression" - is factually false. If you mean that you don't find her skill expression compelling, you should say that instead.
The second thing happening behind this complaint is something that we're going to tackle in the next header, but it's ignoring everything a killer is capable of because they have one kind of cheesy strat they can use. This happens with other killers too, and it's just as silly there as it is here - you might as well just talk about the thing you don't like, without trying to act like there's nothing else possible for the killer to do.
2: "All she does is drop a drone at a loop and force you to leave"
I actually debated putting this one on the list, because to be fair, this strategy is annoying. I'm mostly including it because it was relevant to the previous point, but there is one thing to say about it beyond just pointing out it's not all she does.
Mostly, it is worth mentioning that she's the least offensive of the three killers that can do this. Unlike Artist and Knight, this strategy doesn't work at every loop and doesn't require you to run away immediately even on the loops it does work on. Still, it is annoying, so I'm not necessarily defending it.
I've also seen some people say that running away from the loop means you get hit straight away, unlike Knight and Artist, but, uh. I don't see how that could be true, let alone how to argue against it. If she's close enough to hit you like that, she was hitting you either way, idk what that complaint is on about. Maybe I just don't understand the complaint properly?
3: "She's uninteractive" / "She has no counterplay"
These two get to be part of the same header because they're inherently linked. There is actually quite a bit of interaction when it comes to the Skull Merchant's kit, and that comes as a direct consequence of the counterplay that she does, in fact, have. Note again that this is not an attempt to convince you that you should be having fun playing against her.
So, how do you counter Skull Merchant? This isn't an in-depth guide on that particular topic, so I'll try and keep it a little more light, but there are generally two elements to SM's counterplay: In chase, and out of chase.
In chase, the way the drone's beams work is crucial to her counterplay, and the interaction that comes from it comes from positioning yourself so the beams are blocked as much of the time as possible, and crouching/standing still to avoid the beams when you would otherwise be scanned by them. Sometimes you'll see some people saying you can't do that in chase, but you obviously can, people duck and crouch in chase all the time. It really depends on the length of the loop and how far away the killer is, and you'll forgive me if I don't find the concept of a killer's counterplay being nuanced and having a skill curve to be particularly compelling evidence towards that killer being uninteractive.
Briefly, I want to also touch on the idea that sometimes, when you crouch to dodge a beam, you get hit with an M1 instead. Again, briefly: Yeah, that's countering her. Forcing a killer like Bubba to M1 you at windows is part of his counterplay, because taking an injury to deny a better effect from the killer's power is not all that uncommon in this game. It applies to them, it applies to Skull Merchant.
Then we move on to out of chase counterplay, which revolves around knowing which drones to hack and when to hack them. If it's hovering over a generator, you'd ignore it, but if it's in a loop you think might be high traffic in the foreseeable future, you'd go hack it and reap the rewards when a teammate is chased there and SM has to replace the drone instead of benefiting from it. A direct benefit, as a reward for interacting with her power, or… counterplay.
Again, none of this is to say it can't be improved or that you have to enjoy it. I'm debunking a specific complaint here.
4: "Her kit is bloated" / "She has too many status effects"
I'll come out straight and acknowledge something: This is the most subjective thing on the list, but I do feel strongly enough in my reasoning to still make a case against it.
So, the reason I think this particular complaint is really misleading is the fact that it misses a very crucial detail: Her kit doesn't do much else.
The only things her kit does that aren't related to a status effect are the tracking on her radar and the fact that she can push survivors into interacting with a map prop, everything else comes from a status effect. This is different to other killers (especially ones closer to her in how recently they were released), who may get a few status effects, but get some of the value in their kit from more baked-in mechanics as well. Take Wesker, for example: he and Skull Merchant do a comparable amount of things, after all. He and SM both have:
- A way of speeding themselves up
- A way of slowing the survivors down
- A way of injuring survivors
- A way of applying Deep Wound
- A way of tracking survivors
- A map prop survivors interact with as part of the counterplay
The only thing Merchant has basekit that Wesker doesn't is stealth, outside of that they do a similar number of things. The difference is that Wesker's comes from a mix of baked-in mechanics and status effects, and Merchant's is almost exclusively status effects.
Please don't reply to this to say you think Wesker is better designed, that's not the argument being made and you'd just be proving my point. If you're okay with that NUMBER of effects on Wesker, your problem with Merchant can't be the NUMBER of effects she has.
5: "She gets all her status effects just for pushing a button"
No she doesn't. She gets Undetectable for pushing a button, everything else comes from scanning survivors.
This is relevant because two very important things are true about the spread of Skull Merchant's effects. One, they're staggered, they don't all happen at once. Two, survivors being scanned is something that both sides are putting effort and skill into playing around; the killer wants it to happen, the survivor wants to avoid it.
This point mostly just loops back around to the arguments in the counterplay header, but it's a separate complaint so it gets its own header.
6: "She gets passive, unpredictable Haste"
The Skull Merchant's Haste effect is both not passive, and is very predictable. It only happens when someone is shown on her scanner, and it happens for twelve seconds after a single scan. This is information the survivor players do have access to, though I'll grant the duration is only something you'd know if you look it up.
(As an aside, I would very much like to see that duration conveyed to the survivors via their Lock On stack counter turning red while they're shown on the scanner, to address that.)
The only reason this effect would be passive is if someone's tripping drones outside of chase, which is almost always avoidable and the result of skilled placement when it isn't, which would make it not passive in the latter case. Being rewarded for survivor mistakes you can't rely on or force is not a passive effect.
7: "She's still the best at 3-genning" / "3-genning wasn't fixed"
This one doesn't pop up as much because I think most people kind of understand why it isn't true? But for the sake of completionism I might as well address it here as well.
The argument you see in favour of this complaint typically revolves around arguing that Merchant can set up her drones near generators, and survivors will get scanned when she comes to harass them away from that generator, building up towards a Claw Trap. The problem with this is… well, there are a few problems:
- This isn't actually guaranteed to happen. A survivor running away from a generator MIGHT get scanned on their way out, but they equally might not.
- This means Skull Merchant has to approach and leave the same generator three separate times before she even gets an injury, let alone a down. During this time, the other two generators are free to be repaired with no risk.
- Most importantly, other killers can make that initial approach, the time where Skull Merchant has to be content with a single scan, actually immediately threatening. They get objectively more reward for the same patrol pattern.
These things combined reveal that the situation being described is exactly why Merchant's 3-genning isn't still a problem. She is now at best on par with every other killer- which isn't to say that 3-genning isn't still useful, because it is, for every killer. She's just in a position where her power barely adds anything to the tactic anymore, let alone stall games out for fifty minutes like it used to.
8: "She has the best stealth in the game" / "Her stealth has no tell"
This is another slightly more subjective one, but I think one of the things people need to remember here is that her stealth is balanced with a short timer, not a tell. Every time someone lists a group of killers who have Undetectable but a tell, it's always the killers who have permanent stealth until some action is taken, whereas Skull Merchant's is on a timer.
…Also Dredge is on the list sometimes, but its stealth just sucks in general.
I'm not necessarily saying there's no argument to be had about whether or not that's a fair way of balancing stealth, but the fact that nobody is ever making that argument means the actual complaint made belongs on this list.
—As we close out the list here, I'm going to repeat an important caveat: This list is NOT evidence that there are absolutely no problems worth discussing with the Skull Merchant, nor is it meant to convince you that you should love and adore her. Keep hating her all you want, the point of this list is to at least try and make the discourse surrounding this killer more rooted in the actual, observable power she actually has in the actual game, rather than the misconceptions constantly passed around.In fact, as a show of good faith, I'm going to acknowledge a flaw I think this killer does actually have: I think the amount to which her drones can overlap is honestly a big problem, especially on indoor maps. That's a legitimate problem I'd like to see fixed, but to loop back to the point of this list… how often does that come up? Sometimes, but it's not one of the big and most common complaints, right?We can criticise and provide feedback for a killer while still being honest and fair about them, and that's what I'm trying to achieve here.
Despite the fact I absolutely DESPISE Skull Merchant, I did give this a read and it does shed light on a little things; but it doesn't change the fact that her kit, or her power in general NEEDS to be reworked.
Comparing her to wesker is unironically unfair because for wesker to know your location, he needs add-ons; which is an unlikely circumstance in comparison to SM who gets it borderline for free.
Wesker's basekit and SM basekit aren't even remotely similar, and yes, she does get an unpredictable, (Almost) uncounterable haste. It is OBJECTIVELY bad if people have to go out of their way to LOOK UP her kit to figure out why she suddenly sped-up mid-chase.
No one is going to know this unless they play Skull Merchant, and in the survivor's case, literally never. They need to make it VERY transparent that she does get a haste status effect to the community. (Possibly during the game, but some sort of transparency when reading about her power that makes it clear that she can gain the haste effect due to reasoning XYZ.)
Addressing that last statement of her stealth mode having no indicator is true. Unless you're running Premo/Spine Chill, you'll never know she's coming unless you get lucky and her undetectable status runs out before she gets to you.
Speaking in PERSONAL experience, there have been COUNTLESS times when a skullie has snuck up on me. You'd think I'd be able to hear something of her approach (Audio is a big part of DBD, It's often how I identify killers, I switch between the Hud and Audio Cues. Even Stealth killers like Ghostie and Myers can be heard.) But she's COMPLETELY silent, it's unwarranted.
I would note stealth killers that have an obvious indication that they're in their undetectable status, but the only ones that i can think of where you CAN'T do anything to force them out of their power is
SM Myers (Or Myers in general, we can't really do much about forcing Myers to change stalking tiers TBH, that's on the killers end of things; so that's technically NOT in survivors' control.)
Onyro
Chucky ( Sort of Subjective because Chucky tends to giggle a lot, but I haven't ever heard him giggle before he spawns out of the depths of darkness.)
(Wrath and Ghostie are pretty obvious, cause we — as in survivors —can actually do something to get them to be detectable. )
Every other argument you stated seemingly has merit and reason to it, but I doubt it'll change the minds of those who despise Skull Merchant, playing her or facing off against her. (Reasonably so, Mine included but respect for getting this out there.) -
If going against skull merchant; Almost instantly, either a DC or suicide on hook. Usually about 8/10 times it'll happen, at least in my experience.
If it's any other killer, then it depends but usually, 3/10 times will a survivor give up or DC depending on the circumstance given to them.
Though, I DISTINCTLY remember in one of my matches; it was a huntress that was LITERALLY cross-map chucking hatchets with almost pin-perfect accuracy; After I got taken out of the game, every other survivor more or less gave up. (It's important to note that only got 1 gen done. Mad props to huntresses who can do that though, as MISERABLE as it is to have to play through that; being capable of doing it is impressive.) -
@Alexlotlz said:
I see people saying "Vecna is getting nerfed" or "Mage Hand needs to be nerfed." Well let me enlighten you as to why he shouldn't be nerfed. So right now people are using Mage Hand to get guaranteed hits right, well so is every other killer in the game. You put almost any other killer in the same scenario it's always a guaranteed hit. Nurse can blink through after you drop it, Huntress can throw a hatchet, Plague with Corrupt puke, Deathslinger at certain walls, Pyramid head, Trickster with enough laceration meter, Nemesis, Artist crow, Xeno, Unknown. Those are all the one who can HIT through the pallets. Some killer can simply break the pallet in half a second, Billy, Bubba, Demo, Oni with fury, Blight, Nemesis (again), Knight's guards, Singularity in overclock mode. And now there's killer who can simply ######### down the loop, Trapper with traps, Hag, Doctors entire kit is based around him shocking you and not being able to drop pallets OR vault windows. Then we have killers who can vault over the pallets, Legion in frenzy, Wesker. Over half the roster of killers can get guaranteed hits in the same scenario so whats the difference with Vecna??? If you're gonna complain about Venca's Mage Hand needing a nerf you better be complaining about Doctor when his whole kit is based around you not being able to vault anything or drop pallets, and you can spam his power and all doctor players every use are Discipline or Iri addons. And need i remind you Nurse still exists. You drop a pallet or vault a window in front of her she just blinks and you get hit. No counterplay with that. Mage Hand at least has some counterplay to it with baiting it out early, and some times you don't want to use Mage Hand right away so you as the survivor player are still buying time for your team to do gens. I've played Vecna non stop since release and i can so whole heartedly he does not need a nerf at all. He is balanced the way he is right now.
Obligatory "Vecna shouldn't be getting nerfed" post 29, Can we go for 30?????
Real talk though, the only thing that needs to be changed on vecna's kit is her mage hand, seriously. It is an IRREFUTABLE Fact that that the only way to avoid having a free hit be used on you is to have that artifact that grants you 3% haste when mage hand IS used.
Otherwise, the only real hard counter to Vecna's entire kit is Crouching and looping at windows, seeing as he has the capability to completely shutdown pallet loops, like the past…couple of killers added to the game could do. -
@Spirit_IsTheBest said:
This is the second post I came across from you that's quite pointless.
Firstly, you claim that you want survivors who body block, and hide to be banned. Then your complaining about people who meme around, seriously, just move on instead of posting every experience you didn't enjoy on the forums.
This guy is the walking EPITOME of an entitled killer. Every post he makes speaks volumes about how effortless he wants the games to be and how SWFS are so broken and powerful; or how the game is survivor sided.
I'm convinced he hasn't being paying attention at all or has been spoonfed all his wins for a reaction THIS….deplorable, it's disgustingly ironic and hilarious.