SaltyNooty
SaltyNooty
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@TropesDaMan said:
Hey People of the forums, i had a curious little assesment and wanted to know what mains do you respect the most? either they main a killer thats rather hard to use, or weak in general, or they are just usally fun to play against?
It's generally very rare that killers grab my respect since almost all of them play in a way or possess a power that makes the match absolutely miserable for a Solo Q survivor such as myself. (Such as Sadako's Hit and Run, teleport to every tv and then tunnel out the survivor who's reached max condemned)
However, the few killers that DO gain my respect beyond the basic necessities of not being toxic, BMING or making the match itself an absolute hell on earth just to play. (Ahem, Max-Slow down/Thanaphobia, No heal Legions.) They are—
- Billies
- Bubbas.
- Huntress.
- Blights. (I used to hate him when he first released but now I find myself wishing face more of him then the tokyo mid anime character.)
- Wesker
- Lich
- Springtrap.
- Henry (I LOVE facing off against him and genuinely respect people for getting use to his skill curve because he's not braindead easy and therefore, most people avoid him. Also biased towards stranger things.)
So, 8 out of the 42 (Soon to be 43 Killers.)
Everyone else either sits on Neutral "I can handle playing against you for a bit" list or "I'd literally rather have a 72 hour DC penality then play against this killer again", dislike list. -
@HommeBizarre said:
I want to hear what people think of Kaneki
What they like, and what they don't like.
I'll begin, his leap cooldown when not attacking is awfully low. Why on earth does he has the right to come super fast to you, get a 0.5sec cooldown and hit you for free.
Tbh, it's the only thing bugging me about him
@Skitten56 said:
I'll begin, his leap cooldown when not attacking is awfully low. Why on
earth does he has the right to come super fast to you, get a 0.5sec
cooldown and hit you for free.This is what annoys me the most as well.
I think he is okay as a killer. Not overly strong but good mobility. I want to say I don't mind facing him but frankly, the way so many Kaneki mains play him and those screams make me want to stop playing the game for the day. Hearing the TR at the start of a match just makes me sigh.
I always tell them ggwp at the end of the match but in my head I'm thinking, please play any other killer. That said, for any Kaneki mains here, don't let survivors tell you what you can or can't play. It is BHVRs fault for making a poorly designed killer, not your fault for playing them.
These two thoughts accurately sum up how I feel about him. He's far less toxic then when he was when he first released and how extremely overtuned he was, forcing everyone to run MFT otherwise suffer the consequences.
I'm still not a fan of how quickly he can attack after leaping, even Billy has a moment between missing a chainsaw and revving it that allows you to decide your course of action, no killer in this game gets to use their power and then damn near immediately M1 after it and on top of all that, every Kaneki/Rize adopts the same strategy so often it makes me want to pry open their brains to see if they have an OUNCE of originality or gamer spirit beyond "Play super competitve, super toxic and tell anyone who loses to you to cope and cry harder."
Hearing his TR makes me rethink my choices of getting on DBD for the day and especially after a long string of matches, sometimes, I consider just giving up or afking right there. (Not that I ever do that, but, it's valid contemplation.) -
@TheMruczek said:
I mean the overall concept of it. We'll see tomorrow how actually fun and balanced he is.
Imo I don't hate it but this the second anniversary in a row to have a mobility + projectile killer. Kinda underwhelming for 10th anniversary. I like the stealth aspect, the spear toss is alright. Still wished for rage mechanic or some form of a command grab.
Not at all. Infact, it feels like a far-cry for what Jason actually was in his series and his remake, which was primarily a thriller/slasher movie series with Jason having this odd ways coming back every single time; and above all else, he feels. . . overtuned to a degree.
I would've preferred if he operated similar to Old Myers/Ghostface, being a Stealth Killer with the ability to throw a Projectile, like Knives or hatchets, recreating that thriller/horror feeling you got seeing how he killed the survivors at Crystal Lake. One second, you're working on a gen, the next, a hatchet misses you by just a hair and Jason's in the background behind a tree.
Instead, we have a Mobility Stealthy Killer (Which, I've never really been a fan of. Why have a Killer that's build around stealth AND can race across the map in record time?) , who can teleport and jumpscare, revealing survivor locations and throw pikes with almost deadly accuracy (I've yet to see that thing miss, but I could be wrong), which works similarly to Springtraps' Hatchet where you need to remove it otherwise things wont go so well.
Or, it could just be the fact that I'm tired of seeing Killers with 10 different abilities rolled into one and always seem to have immense mobility always apart of the deal. Springtrap can teleport across the map and always gains Undetectable when doing so, Krasue/Kaneki literally caused generational trauma/hatred, and Vecna/Henry has actually been the only enjoyable/fun killer I've seen released since like, Aug 2022 (Wesker.) -
@MoZo said:
why is the incentive only 2.5x when the 2v8 killer queues are 30 MINUTES?? the incentive should be 10x or higher with how long those queue times are. at the very least can we bring back the base 5x incentive that we had during the August 2025 2v8? in the past 2 iterations of 2v8, the incentive hasn’t been higher than 3.5x which is really disappointing.
What are you even playing on for que times to be 30 minutes? I get matches in literally less than a minute, tops.
Do you have crossplay off or something? -
@100PercentBPMain said:
in case anyone missed it, cages have anticamp now where you can consent to teleport away, and if you do, pause the hook timer by 30 seconds.
I've long relied upon suffocating one player out by proxy camping their hook, then when the timer runs down you force anti camp to push the cage away, making the hooked survivor likely be alone and die by themselves as the rescuers came to me.
now I got no shortcuts for dealing with sprint bursters.
this change I actually don't mind. this should affect killers efficiency to secure first death I'm curious if it'll have a noticeable impact on kill rates this time around.
I feel it was a long time coming, those cage spawns are just way too predictable
I'd like to assume this is a troll post, but I fail to see why you needed to proxy camp survivors in a cage just to get other survivors; when the better method is to just work with your killer teammate to get downs much more efficiently. It's one of the easiest things to do in 2v8 that you're literally playing less efficiently by doing that.
I also fail to see why you're choosing to play 2v8 in a competitively/sweaty way when it's not really meant for that. Feels more like you're just ruining the fun for yourself and making it everyone's problem because you refuse to play causally. Either way, you should probably stick to 1v4's instead of 2v8s. -
@dbd900bach said:
Ghoul became one of those killers who in the beginning became widely hated due to how how strong their power was along with the free injure at the start of every chase. He could even vault and get an easy hit at loops, plus being able to catch up immediately after breaking a pallet.
Almost all of these annoying aspects have been nerfed. He's still a great killer, but after receiving so many changes over time is still widely hated despite being not as oppressive. A noob stomper but every killer is to most newer players so I don't think that really counts as part of the argument.
A good hand full of survivor players have stated that Ghoul is not difficult to go against. Especially the average Ghoul who hasn't even mastered his mobility at all. Easy to loop and take advantage of in chase.
So I'm trying to understand if there is inherent bias against Ghoul. Rather than trying to improve in chase, are most survivors just giving up and not even trying? Instead of getting better at looping Ghoul do survivors just assume Ghoul is the primary problem if they get downed? Their skill doesn't need to be put into question?
The way I see it, Ghoul is the new Skull Merchant. Had an insanely overpowered start and progressively got weaker as time went on because people genuinely did not like to face off against a killer with disgustingly effective and rather annoying kit. Infact, that kit still holds up to this day, and it's almost been a year since Ghouls release, so that should very clearly tell you what people think about him.
I'm not afraid to admit that when I hear his Terror Radius Theme at the beginning of the match, I either frown or groan because of the sheer abundance of ghouls you will run into in comparison to literally any other killer. As a survivor main, I'm also one of the people who will say that it's not impossible to face Ghoul in a match. Like with most killers all it takes is some experience, spatial awareness and prediction. It is, however, incredibly tiresome having to face kaneki's and rizes for what feels like every single match.
I'm inclined to say it's a 50/50. Sometimes, it is a skill issue between the players and their level of experience; but other times, it's likely an inherent bias/reputation that the Ghoul garnered when he first dropped; much like Skull Merchant. Most people are just really tired of having to see the same killer, the same perks and the same add-ons every time they face one. -
@Brightened said:
I thought perks got nerfed when they become meta or are too strong.
Where is the nerf to aura reading perks for killers? Sure there are players that argue that they're not even that strong but I don't actually think that's true.
You take new Michael (who can bring you to the exposed status within seconds of stalking) and give him No Where to Hide, Darkness Revealed, Nurses, BBQ, Friends til the End, Awakened Awareness (don't see this one much to be fair) and it's immediately a down for him.
Same to the increasingly high number of killers that have add-ons for aura reading.
I'm honestly shocked if I don't see at least one aura reading perk in every match.
What is the justification they make? SWFs can tell one another where the killer is? Is that the counter argument? Because what about solo queue?
Meanwhile, aura reading perks for survivors are virtually worthless against killers that can hide their terror radius or have oblivious. Which is literally half the roster in DBD, lmao.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4053558#Comment_4053558
Can I ask how you gained all this information? Because from my own experience, and according to the official DBD wiki, some of it is not true. I am positive there is no difference between the delay outside and inside of worldbreaker mode, and the circle also isn't any bigger when in worldbreaker mode.
Plus worldbreaker mode's first phase does finsih faster the more survivors you have on the clock, the increase is just much less noticeable with every additional survivor on a clock.
Sorry, I don't come on here often enough so I didn't see your message until today.
Most of the information I've gathered here is through experience and observation. Since this chapter is fairly new, so, I run into Henry quite often and often try to understand how to counter/play against him if I can help it and I thought I'd spread what I've gathered to others so that we can pool our knowledge together and figure out everything about Henry.
I fully admit that some of the information might not be true, I even prefaced this with my first and second update. I don't have all the knowledge and I don't have all the answers and That was the purpose of this forum. To gather knowledge about Henry so that anyone who sees it would know how to deal with him in some way.
But, I don't just use one match as a resource to assume his power/abilities; I play several matches against him (if the MMR is on my side) and observe any differences from those last matches. If all points match up, then to me, it's a fact, if it varies then I post my experience BUT, I ensure that people know that what I know might not actually be the truth and most people who've commented or up-voted my forum seemed to comprehend that.
I won't dispute or try to argue about what may or may not be true. If anything I've said is inaccurate, disproven, or wrong, then that's what it'll be. At the time of me making this forum, I was unsure if the Wiki had all the answers we needed and it IS still missing some information, so, I shared my experience to help others with countering Henry and the goal was accomplished.
If I'm wrong, I'm wrong lol. But, do know that our experiences aren't the same, so what you've experience isn't the same as me. -
@Dinadin said:
So the only counterplay is still hoping for bad aim. Much fun.
Please don't reduce or scrub down the information that was collected here for everyone to see to such a narrow point of view, not only does that not help anyone, it especially doesn't help you and lessens the impact of what is being gathered here for everyone else.
I will fully admit, this information won't magically change the tide of how you face him, but it information has help me countless times against henry, infact, I have more wins against him than I do losses because of all the things that I've gathered and placed on display here.
I won't say "Just because your frustrated" because I've been there too, who knows how many times I complained about Krasue and Ghoul because they were just too strong; but what I will say is that if you're not willing to accept help, you've got your own issue to deal with.
That being said, that's all I have, so. -
@Brokenbones said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4053558#Comment_4053558
I KNEW IT
The game literally does not mention this anywhere in his power description. The only reason I had an inkling of a guess was due to a loading screen tip that is EASILY MISSABLE.
LMAO. After you said it, I decided to test the theory and quickly found out that, yes, what you said was true. I lost that match but the information I gained from it was Immensely valuable since I used for next match, which was another Henry.
Sometimes, I do pay attention to the loading since they have helpful hints against killers you never faced; but it's always so randomized that I don't ever bank on seeing something I don't already know. -
@SaltyNooty said:
First and Foremost, I'd like to open with what I've observed and experience playing against Henry. This DOES NOT have all the information needed to make dealing with "The First" or "Henry" easier. He is a VERY new killer, so obviously, no one has all the details; but I'd like to gather both knowledge and experience for those who might be struggling with him or would like to learn his counter-play.
(At the time I am writing this, I am uncertain if the Wiki has added all the necessary information; so, be aware of that.)
Second, this is not a forum for arguments. Please, DO NOT come into this forum and start debating. This is just an informational guide gathered by first hand experience, if you would like chime in on what you've seen or gathered; then feel free, but please don't argue. It gets nowhere.
Third, this is somewhat of a guide; so this will be very, very long.
Be respectful and kind to one another, we're all going through this chapter together, so there's no reason why we shouldn't be able to work as what this forum is supposed to be: A community. Now, with all things out of the way, let's begin.
1. Vines/Mind Invasion
We all know Henry's M1 attacks with vines; what most people should know is about his M2.
His M2, or what I like to call "Mind Invasion" allows him to spawn vines within a given radius and build up his "Mind Invasion Meter." When he successfully lands 2 Mind Invasion attacks, World Breaker will activate which will switch up how Henry's Mind Invasion works against you. (I will cover World Breaker a bit later.)
Mind Invasion Meter: When you spawn in a match, everyone will have a clock-looking meter surrounding their character on the left side of the screen; there will be 4 notches surrounding your character picture showing you how deep Henry has gotten in your mind. For every successful Mind Invasion attack landed on your character, a quarter of the meter will fill. — This cannot be reversed or reduced, so it is imperative you pay attention to how deeply you are affected; because when that meter is full, Henry can kill you.
This is also shown by a lightning-esque effect around your character's head, which becomes more prominent the more you are affected by Henry's Mind Invasion attack.
Regarding how Henry can mori you, I need a bit more information; but I have generally experienced and speculated that 3 conditions must be met.
- You must be on Death Hook.
- Your Invasion Meter must be full.
- You must be downed by his Mind Invasion attack; which will leave you vulnerable. (This is shown by your character floating in the air and twitching, to which Henry can then walk up and kill you.)
I have not figured out a way if you can be saved before he kills you; but I can only assume you can. (Of course, how it worked in Stranger Things is not the same in an Asym game like DBD.)
Things to Know/Remember
— There will always be an audio que before those vines spawn in, giving you a split second to figure out where they'll spawn. (Assume that if you were running to a pallet, they'll spawn infront of you, behind or generally where your character was going to be.)
— Henry CANNOT spawn these vines beyond his TR (Terror Radius). If i had to guess, his range is roughly 20 - 30 meters starting from him and to the near edges of his TR.
— If World Breaker is not active, these vines WILL NOT damage you; they will only build the Mind Invasion Meter.
— This attack can be held. For how long, I'm not certain. It happened to me once or twice while in chase against Henry and caught me off guard.— This attack can destroy Pallets. Do not assume because you can vault a pallet, you're safe. Keep making Distance, keep being unpredictable.
It is possible to dodge the attack, you just need to jerk your character to a different direction than you were originally moving. The biggest counter to Mind Invasion is remaining unpredictable, don't constantly keep jumping through vaults or throwing pallets. Henry CANNOT attack when using Mind Invasion but the cooldown between that and his M1 is Negligent, so don't think that because he used Mind Invasion, he cannot M1 you; that's a mistake you will regret thinking
Overall, try breaking LOS (Line of Sight) as much as possible; the more you do, the harder it'll be for Henry to predict or assume where you're going. Perks that shut down aura reading/hide scratch marks really excel here.2. WorldBreaker/Grand Father Clocks
Remember how I said that if Henry lands two successful Mind Invasion attacks, Worldbreaker will activate? Let's get back to that.
So, the game says that Henry needs Two Tokens to activate Worldbreaker. This is by successfully landing two Mind Invasion attacks. It can be on anyone, but it will usually be on the person that's in chase, so be aware of that.
Once doing so, a clock in the top middle of the screen will appear and you will hear a dull, reverberating grandfather clock chime ring in your ear; your screen will change to a reddish, darker tint possibly referencing the Mindworld from Stranger Things Season 4/5. This when the game changes a bit.
First and foremost, That clock in the middle of the screen tells you how long World breaker will last. I've usually never waited out the timer, but I've speculated that it can last from 1 - 2 minutes. And trust me when I say this, You don't want that to happen.
"Mind Invasion" or Henry's M2 will no longer build the Meter on the left-hand side of the screen, but will start dealing damage. This can be handled the same way that was previously expressed, just be aware that you can now start taking damage now. Keep trying to break LOS.
The WorldBreaker timer can be reduced by using the Grandfather Clocks highlighted in a white aura scattered around the map. When in use, they'll play some bass and snare music and you'll visibly see the clock's arrow move at an accelerated rate. (Which, personally, I think they should've added "Running up that Hill" but that's just my opinion IMO.)
Multiple people can use the Grandfather clocks, but it is ill-advised. Only one player should be reducing the timer, other's should be focused on gens if not in chase. I've experienced multiple matches where too many players were on the clock and we ended up losing from lack of gen pressure. From what I've observed, the clock does not move any faster if Multiple people are on the clock.
— NOTE: There is a specific section of the clock on the top of the screen that cannot be reduced. (Roughly around the Roman 9 [ IX ] Roman 12 [ XII ] Once you've gotten the timer down to that much, you will be kicked off the clock and it will be resealed in vines. Henry's voice will echo and his power usage will be shortened. Congratulations.Things to Know/Remember
— There will always be an audio cue when Worldbreaker is activated. When this happens, the world will take a reddish tint.
— The Grandfather clocks will be activated when Worldbreaker is active. Only one person should be reducing the time, everyone else needs to focus on gens. PLEASE, use the GUI on the left-hand side of the screen to see if a player is interacting with a killer item.
— When World Breaker is reduced, henry will have an audio cue and all Grand-Father clock will be re-sealed.
3. The Upside Down/Upside Down Strike
Now we'll get to Henry's extra ability, traversing the upside down. Between every 30 - 40 seconds, Henry possess the ability to move in the upside down, where he'll sink through the ground and his speed will increase drastically.
There is an audio cue when he decides to go underground and it sounds like a wet squelch, as if you were playing with slime.
When Henry is in the upside down, from what I've observed, he has the ability to see auras of everything around him; letting him locate pallets, vaults, objects, survivors, everything. To what extent or radius, I'm also unsure of.
When Henry is traversing the upside down, you can both hear and see him. It will be a dark, bloody stain moving around on the ground with similar noises as if you were dragging your feet through water; you'll know when he's approaching you by the unusual sound.
From what I've gathered, Henry only has one option in this mode as he's incapable of harming you unless he uses what I've coined "The Upside Down Strike." When he uses the Upside Down Strike, a red ring of about 15 - 20 meters will surround him and the dark, bloody stain will expand until it reaches the outer limit of the red ring; then, vines will rise out of the ground, striking any players still within range of the attack.
During this, Henry will slow down significantly allowing players to escape the range if their vigilant enough; however, if they are struck by this, Two things will happen.
— If Worldbreaker is not active, any player caught in the radius will have half of their Mind Invasion Bar filled, prompting Worldbreaker to activate; but you will not be harmed.
— If Worldbreaker is active, any player caught in the radius will lose a health state.
This move is good for crowd control and if Multiple survivors are in a area they cannot easily escape from; but from what I've observed, that's mostly on indoor maps and it's fairly easy to get out of it. If you are struck by it, assume hitboxes and server latency, lol. — It's better for mobility and allowing you to get from one end of the map to another.
After using Upside Down Strike, Henry will reappear in the overworld again and be fully capable of attacking with Mind Invasion or his M1Things to Know/Remember
— There is an audio cue when Henry is traversing the upside down, it is different from when WorldBreaker or Mind Invasion is used, so be aware of that. Assume that when you hear it, usually after he's done hooking someone; he's moving to another location, especially towards gens.
— Henry gets slowed down when using the Upside Down Strike and it can be dodged by getting out of it's range as soon as possible. Henry is capable of shifting the red circle to some degree, as he's not fully immobilized when coming out the Upside down, but you can escape it.
— If Worldbreaker is not active, any player caught in the radius will have half of their Mind Invasion Bar filled, prompting Worldbreaker to activate; but you will not be harmed.
— If Worldbreaker is active, any player caught in the radius will lose a health state.
This is all the information I've gathered about Henry so far and I've got to say, he is one of the best killers I've faced in a LONG while. I've had a lot of fun facing off against him, he doesn't feel unfair, his attacks have good (pretty obvious) counterplay, his voice acting and audio cues are incredible and he has immense potential.
Although there is more I'd like to express as a stark comparison to previous chapters, where those did not feel as fun to play because of how killers were set up and how their powers are used; this is not the forum for that.
If you have any more information, let me know and post it down below; we should all be there to help each other understand and improve. There could be things that I missed that you might have.@Brokenbones said:
So there's something that's been bothering me since the PTB and this could be a placebo case but I swear I read something that said this was a thing
Supposedly, when Worldbreaker is active - Henry's power attacks come out faster than they do outside of it. I swear I saw this in a loading screen tip on the PTB.
I'm not saying this is a fact as it is not mentioned anywhere in his power description but the fact they intentionally left out the mori mechanic from that (Confirmed on dev livestream) I'm not entirely sure it's fully accurate.
UPDATE 2
So. I'm here again with another update for Henry/Vecna after a bit more information gathering and playing against him. Im sure by now, everyone has probably got a good grasp on how to deal with him or not. It's roughly been about a week since his release, so I'll go over what I've confirmed and what still needs more data.
1. @Brokenbones was correct. His Upside Down Strike Does come out faster when Worldbreaker is active. I had been specifically making sure to pay attention to when it's active and when it's not and it is Significantly easier to evade his attack when Worldbreaker isn't active then when it is.
Though, it's not impossible to get out of the range when WorldBreaker is active, it's much, much more difficult. I've also noticed the ring appears to be somewhat larger when Worldbreaker is active.
2. I've already confirmed this previously, but I'll reiterate for brevity sake. The clock does not move faster when multiple people are on. I wanted to reconfirm this fact to assure that I wasn't just throwing something out there without any factual evidence, and trust me; I've done it multiple times. It does not move any faster. So, just to reconfirm, do not have multiple people on the clock. You'll lose pressure and you will likely end up losing that match.
3. I've also confirmed that for Henry to Mori you, you have to meet these conditions.Your Invasion Meter must be full.You must be downed by his Mind Invasion attackHenry can only mori you in world breaker. (not including the mori offering.)
I've noticed that he was able to kill people without them being on Death Hook, but I'll have to play a few more matches and get lucky enough to see it happen. Maybe other people have this knowledge.
4. For those wanting to know how to properly counter Henry. I've noticed that he has about a 4 - 5 second cooldown between each M2/ Mind Invasion attack, so every time you here that sharp shrill sound/audio cue, start counting between the time it spawns in and the next one. Knowing cooldowns is irrefutably one of the most important factors in learning how to play as a killer and against a killer.@Senaxu said:
Lockers are pretty strong against Upside Down Strike.
If you can’t safely avoid the attack, a locker is your best bet. Better to take the M1 than an active Worldbreaker.5. As @Senaxu previously said, Lockers are also a viable counter against the Upside Down Strike, but as you would with a Billy or a Bubba, you'll need to time it properly otherwise, they'll grab you out the locker and it'll be a free Hook for them. I fully agree with the notion that it's better to take a Health State then have Worldbreaker active.
6. This is incredibly important, so I highly implore you all to pay attention here. World Breaker will AUTOMATICALLY activate if Henry uses an M2 against someone who has their Mind Invasion Meter full. I've seen this happen multiple times. Not exactly sure why that is, but it is incredibly dangerous for someone who has their clock full to be attacked by that move.
Obviously, that'll mean World Breaker will activate and they can be killed. That means that Henry has a built in snowball effect as once that happens, you'll have to run to the clocks to deactivate the power or attempt to save that person from being killed.
Bodyblocking is somewhat effective but, since Henry's M2 is an aimed attack, I'd be more inclined to focus on the gens.
Honestly, the safest way to avoid being mori'd is to hop into a locker depending on where your hook state is because then they'll HAVE to hook or slug you; and seeing as how Henry cannot hit you with his Mind Invasion when you're downed. It's a safer bet then hoping you can run him for long enough; those hitboxes can be nasty if they choose not to agree with you.
Hopefully, all the information i've gathered is able to help somebody. I really have been enjoying this chapter, so if I find anything else out; I'll keep you all posted. -
@Royval said:
What’s the point of the clocks if he gets the red world instantly after 2 hits with his power? What’s the point of having stacks if they never could go away? Why is he able to just spam his power repeatedly? That’s no excuse because he’s 4.4 I rather face him when he’s 4.6 but no power spam. Make it so if he’s spamming his power he loses the red world faster.
I'm going to kindly direct you to my forum, which directly lists how to deal with Henry. While I understand your frustration, dealing with Henry really isn't as difficult as people make it seem; you just can't play against him the same way you would other killers.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/463335/the-real-vecna-guide-the-first-henry#latest -
@GhostsCore said:
Aka the nerf Vecna posts. Do survivors seriously even like this game anymore?
It's the same cycle: New killer comes out, new killer is fun and unique.
Survivors: Wah! It isn't the same 3 killers I've faced for the past 5 years! Nerf it!
If you make the cooldown longer you'll encourage more zoning/only attacking when it's guaranteed. Which is exactly what you hate about those powers. And if you give no compensation you'll get another Krause.
Why don't we try and learn the counterplay first, instead of immediately crying because the killer isn't Blight? The killers very vulnerable to LoS breaks and shift W.
But no, survivors are going to cry and get it nerfed into being one of the least played killers like Krause. And then we're going to wonder why the killer roster isn't very diverse and what you only see the same top 5 killers in the game...
As a survivor who loves playing against vecna/henry, I'll never fully comprehend why they're complaining about him. He's incredibly fun to go against and offers way more counterplayer then facing off against a nurse and or a Blight. Infact, I literally made a whole forum to help people engage and deal with his power. Of course, it wasn't interacted with much, which is probably a reason why it's so buried, but it is there.
This is one the best chapters DBD has put out in awhile and even though that's my personal opinion, I do recognize that Vecna has IMMENSE potential. The first 2 weeks of new killers being released is always rocky because of people figuring out how to play against them, like Ghoul or Krasue. But, this isn't going as terrible as it did with Ghoul/Krasue because Henry isn't high mobility killer.
There are SOMETHING'S about Henry that does need to get nerfed or changed, such as his ability to mori survivors and ways to remove his tokens against a player so it's more difficult too mori players; but, overall, I think he's decently balanced and very possible to survive against. Players just need to pay attention to audio ques, that is unironically his biggest weakness.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/463335/the-real-vecna-guide-the-first-henry#latest (The forum for anyone wondering.) -
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4051709#Comment_4051709
You don't speak for everyone. Tunneling and slugging isn't a problem. It's both players' inability to counter them and a lack of other viable strategies.
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4051716#Comment_4051716
It's an option against a Doctor, an M1 Killer.
I'm not here to argue, so I'm only going to say this once and go back to minding my business; but after reading this entire thread and the debate going on here, I've come to several conclusions that, honestly checks out for how far gone the DBD community is.
1. You're ragebaiting, or you're intentionally acting ignorant. I have very little faith in the fact that your head is so far up your backend that you could POSSIBLY come to this conclusion based on the evidence you were given about that match with the doctor. You sound and come off incredibly entitled and privileged if you genuinely believe that THAT build could have been played properly against, with a killer that's built on denying any account of survivability and is an anti-loop killer.
A good doctor is fully capable of knowing when to shock and when not to shock and once someone figures.
So, given context of what you've been saying. You think that the best way to deal with a killer like that. . . is to use their TR and not get hit by a killer who's entire build is to slug and deny any access to pallets or vaults; who also has the ability to use Static Blast, which covers his entire TR and easily reveal survivor locations.
So, even though you weren't saying it, the only option that was reasonably presented and technically implied, is to hide. Spend an entire match hiding from that particular killer because attempting to loop, which is survivors only means of actual defense wasn't a viable strategy. Because not getting hit by a killer who moves faster than you, and can gain bloodlust is not an option.
2. I know you're aware of this, but I'll say it anyways for brevity sake. You, also, don't speak for everyone when you say that. Regardless of whether or not you choose to believe it, the fact is tunneling and slugging have been an issue for years. When an problem like that continues to increase rather then decrease despite the constant amount buffs, reworks, changes and benefits players get for doing the opposite of that; the issue falls down to the side that continues to engage and create that problem.
This is backed by the countless clips of evidence you can find all over the net, twitch, YT, TT, Insta, anything you want to use, really. So, when there's evidence backing claims of tunneling and slugging still happening, that is a fact. So, we're going with the fact that tunneling and slugging is an issue and needs to be curbed, not an opinion of "Players just need to be better, it's a skill issue."
Overall, you just sound misinformed, opinionated and ignorant; like most other people who come on this forum and raise hell about how "Survivors are so spoiled" or how "Killers are so entitled." -
@Senaxu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4050330#Comment_4050330
no worries. if you want to go all in: take Head On too. You high likely get away for free
Oh my god, that is an ingenious idea. However, I get the feeling it would only work once lol; once you get hit with head on, you kinda get weary of that one survivor to avoid getting struck with it again.
@100PercentBPMain said:
thanks for taking the time to cobble this together.
You are very welcome. I figured some people should know the way to play around, play with or counter vecna.
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@NAERUUU said:
2 hours after the PTB, we already saw people saying Vecna / Henry was BROKEN / OP or WEAK, then, on the release, people start to lock in an understand how to play against, and it's fine, and the more the time will go, it's an battle between Henry / Vecna enjoyers who will try to push the characters with new tech and masterizing him, and the survivors who will learn counterplay. I'm just tired of that a little and i do think it will be greater for everyone.
I felt as if it's important to express opinions about new killers and how they're being handled because it directly shows what was and what wasn't changed from the PTB. However, I'm often of the opinion that unless the killer is obviously insanely busted, (Like Kaneki or Krasue), we probably should hold off on saying anything.
I for one, am really enjoying facing off against Vecna. I even made a thread earlier to help out other people understand and grasp his power so they could counter it too; and it's only been like 2 - 3 days since the killer released.
But, this type of stuff happens every time a killer is released; it's not unexpected.
Killer mains will scream and yell that the new killer feels underpowered or try oppress people who express that the new killer feels extremely overpowered
Survivor Mains will scream and yell that the new killer feels overpowered or try oppress people who express that the new killer feels extremely underpowered.
It's one of the main reasons why I stop posting and commenting on here; I just lurk. The DBD community is too far gone to pull their heads out their rears and understand that for a community to thrive, we can't be at each others necks and we should all have an equal amount of say in how certain perks work or killers should be handled.
But then there's BHVR and… well, I'm not touching that topic with a 50 foot pole because we ALL know how that works.
Overall, I think expression opinions and pooling information together to help others is incredibly important; it's just those people that like to gatekeep counter play or oppress others just to have their way that make it look so bad. -
@Senaxu said:
Lockers are pretty strong against Upside Down Strike.
If you can’t safely avoid the attack, a locker is your best bet. Better to take the M1 than an active Worldbreaker.Ah, now that's something EXTREMELY good to know. Thanks for that, will be trying it next match I get into
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@Brokenbones said:
So there's something that's been bothering me since the PTB and this could be a placebo case but I swear I read something that said this was a thing
Supposedly, when Worldbreaker is active - Henry's power attacks come out faster than they do outside of it. I swear I saw this in a loading screen tip on the PTB.
I'm not saying this is a fact as it is not mentioned anywhere in his power description but the fact they intentionally left out the mori mechanic from that (Confirmed on dev livestream) I'm not entirely sure it's fully accurate.
Honestly, I'm not quite sure whether this is true or not. I haven't noticed a difference when Henry uses his M2 Inside Worldbreaker or outside of it; but that would be something to look into since that's a VERY critical detail regarding how to counter him and deal with him.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
I know it’s a little early but holy ######### I can’t believe I’m saying this but Vecna is the BOMB
He’s fun to play as and against, he’s strong but not OP, He has fair counterplay, he’s not braindead easy he actually has a learning curve, his counterplay doesn’t feel like it cripples him
It just feels like BHVR put all there efforts into him which shows cause by god he is incredible
Please BHVR more killers like Vecna please!!?!
I completely agree on this take. This killer is LEAGUES better in terms of playing against and playing as. I genuinely enjoy the counterplay he has and it doesn't feel too unfair to face. There are some times where I get hit with an attack I barely skimmed, but overall; this is an incredibly good release.
This chapter is significantly better then whatever nonsense the Ghoul, Animatronic & Krasue were. (Less on Springtrap tbh, he's decent play against IMO.) I think Vecna has incredibly good potential and good counter play, I just fear the moment that Killers figure out ways to make him meta and start sweating; or never use him because people seem to hard focus high-power, easy to use killers. (Like again, Ghoul or Krasue.)@ChaosWam said:
I've seen some complaints about his power, but the way I see it, this is a fair version of Nurse to me. At least, until I find out he has some insane tech or something.
Breaks the rules, requires accuracy and predictive shots, needs to hit more to actually do damage, traversal is good with a fair cooldown, plenty of warning for the survivor when against him, and a fair counterplay.
I'm content.again, agreed. you summed it up pretty well imo.
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I'm gonna say this as both a player who's been a part of this game since 2018 and has played both sides.
This guy is really missing the mark on why a lot of things he talks about in this video is happening; and it's not just survivor entitlement, it's killer entitlement too. I'd more akin this to a rant on survivors rather than a "critical point of Survivor entitlement" because for it to be "entitlement" that would mean that survivors have Privilege and from what I've experienced ever since I stepped into this wasteland, We don't have nearly as much as the killers do.
This is mainly happening because Killers refuse to give up tunneling, slugging, or camping, and won't let anything that could possibly mitigate that issue or actually help both sides have decent matches come into existence. (Seeing as how we still do not have the anti-tunnel, anti-slug, anti-proxy camp)
He also doesn't take into account the AMOUNT of matches each survivor might have faced before they got to him. That one particular person who gave up on hook, or who gave up after first hit, mid-chase or DC might have had a string of miserable matches before it. It's not uncommon to experience it because I've experienced it, just constant loss after loss after loss isn't a fun way to experience the game, and only builds resentment on one side. (BHVR also releasing incredibly high-power killers with absurd perks is another reason why it happens. Krasue, Springtrap, Ghoul, Dracula, and the Infamous Skull Merchant are all perpetrators.)
Yes, Skull Merchant was nerfed. I'm aware but that doesn't change the irreparable damage it did to DBD overall.
Another portion falls down to the survivors not DCing/giving up against killers they don't like, because that right there is some nonsense. BUT, in the hypothetical that it was "Justified", for survivors to stop DCing/giving up against killers they don't want to face, certain killers would have to be nerfed even further. (But, That's another can of worms I'd rather not open, so for now, Disregard that.)
Both the community of DBD and DBD itself have reached this point where people are constantly giving up, DCING or just not playing correctly, specifically because of these things.
- Constant high-power killers being released (Lich, Dracula, Ghoul, Krasue, Skull Merchant)/Killers getting overbuffed (Clown)
- Constant Survivor Perk Nerfs, which result in survivors being unable to survive
- No change in SoloQ / additional things that could help put the game/community in a state of better balance.
If any of these were to change in favor of actually making the game less miserable, there would be an immense increase in both quality and willingness to play matches; but until this is reached, it will continue to spiral down hill. -
@killermaindbd said:
I wish they'd make it so once the exit gates are opened, the killer could just leave with no consequence since the game is already over. I get it, you can open the gates and all but it still forces you to sit through EGC if the survivors want to run out the timer and be Jerks about it. Give us the option to go next BHVR
I hate how this whole comment section is like 70% of an echo chamber and 30% actual decent opinions.
This idea isn't even really an idea, it seems more like a temper tantrum from an entitled killer main who JUST got out of a terrible match. So, I'll break it down to you in a way that's easy to understand as to why this is a Terrible idea.
1. The game isn't over until all 4 survivors are either put on a shirt, sacrificed to the black thing in the sky, or out of the exit gate.
2. There are whole perks made for EGC and when All Gens are finished which can EASILY, EASILY, turn a match around for anyone if a survivor makes a bad play or a killer puts enough pressure. Here, I'll name a few just further prove my point.
- NOED: Yes, I know, everyone hates this hex, I do too, but not only is a noob stomper but it works very well with ALOT of killers.
- No Way Out: An incredibly good perk that blocks exit gates for a while, giving you more time to secure a kill, & Notifies you when a survivor touches exit gates.
- None are Free: A perk that synergizes WAY too well with No Way Out and makes it IMPOSSIBLE to loop for all survivors for 64 Seconds.
- Blood Warden: You get to see the auras of all survivors and can block it for 60 second if you can get a hook (Literally all of Freddy's perks are good for EGC, why are we acting he wasn't hated for a reason?)
3. It wouldn't be remotely fair since, in the scenario you're suggesting, once EG's are opening you can just abandon match, preventing survivors from actually gaining the BP of escaping. (This excludes those toxic survivors who decide to T-Bag at gates because they can — Though, a good blood warden will change their attitude when they all end up dead lol.) -
@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3921005#Comment_3921005
It may surprise you, but there are people that really want to play a challenging and balanced PvP game, not a one-sided power trip.
What does THIS have to do with the abandonment feature? There's nothing one-sided or overpowered about it, it's literally something implemented for both Killers and Survivors to leave a match earlier under specific conditions. And in the case of Killers, this hardly even affects them, considering they still get what they want???
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@Twiggsy said:
Apparently you can never lose as the last survivor now since it counts as a draw so I'll just admit I'll just abandon everytime now and other survivors will definitely do it too.
We already do that to skip the the Mori, now we got even more reason and incentive since we can just wipe our loss besides keeping everything, abandoning is now a guaranteed hatch escape now no reason to look for that.
I think they need to really reconsider these changes and properly display when you draw or lose when you abandon.
A killer smurfing as a Survivor is NOT what i had in mind for the day, but here we are.
Literally NO ONE is seeing the abandon feature as an automatic win/Draw because you "escaped the match", That's not how that works, and that's not how any sane survivor will see it as.
I don't know about you, but I know I don't get any BP from abandoning, but at the very least I get to keep all the BP I earned during the match and walk away instead of being forced to watch a Mori, being forced to bleed out during a match or being forced to play a 3v1 because someone went next.
And, pretty sure, if you abandon a match, you leave behind those terrible bots for the killer to mori or slugs, meaning they still get what they want… and they still get more BP than you, so, please remind me— How is that a draw? -
@Rokku_Rorru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917534#Comment_3917534
You've missed the point of the survey entirely then, queue times for killer have been long for several events now lol
People don't want to play survivor aside from die hard DBD players, the casual playerbase has been scared away from the game indefinately and FNAF is the next opportunnity to secure a more casual playerbase and are likely prepping for that.
DBD rn needs more casual players and less try hard ones. Yet everyone on this forum especially in the feedback section hate the casual player feedback.
Maybe SBMM isn't working as intended because the casual playerbase has been scared away LOLI've said it before, and I'll say it again, anyone who plays DBD has a love-hate relationship with this game. It's the type of toxic, yet intoxicating feeling of going in match after match hoping for something better and ending up with the same results. (Usually, by the current positioning of the game: A 4K.)
Hell, I haven't played DBD in a good minute because I'm tired of seeing that white-haired spiderman bum, and the blood moon event is PURE misery at it's finest
I see the survey as a good thing finally coming our way with the ability to voice our opinions. However, I hold little hope that the devs will actually take it seriously, as they've actively proven to me since I started this game way back in 2018, that they'll actually make the changes that NEED to be made — and instead, will just do the changes they want. -
@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3917500#Comment_3917500
Don't you think maybe it is relevant to ask the players who are doing that game action why they are doing it?
If the survey is about survivors current experience of the game. . . Why in the world would they ask that question?
I get the point you're trying to make, but this isn't about 'Why killers feel the need to tunnel & Slug' Because no matter which way a person puts it, it's still a crappy thing to do: Period. -
@RainehDaze said:
I… feel quite baffled going through it. Like, it feels like a very important question was skipped early in the process (I'm on question 60 and counting): how much do you play each role.
Getting so many teamwork etc. questions when I only occasionally play Survivor is certainly a choice, when the answer is "it doesn't really affect me most of the time".
Y'know, I distinctly remember a player survey awhile ago, perhaps when wesker or the killer previously/after him came out about how killers feel about the game and I was desperately trying to figure out why it was so oriented towards killers.
This basically answers past mes confusion and honestly speaking, I'm not surprised. I just wish that the devs would strictly name it "Killer Survey" or "Survivor survey" so people aren't wasting their time answering questions that they'd usually have no answer too. -
@Bodark said:
You can just simplify “The Freddying”
- New Killer Releases with a power that could be anywhere on the spectrum of very weak to very strong
- Survivors simply don’t like the power and refuse to learn the counter play or interact with it
- Demand Nerfs
- Review Bomb Chapter until Nerfed If Devs don’t listen
- Rinse and Repeat for every single killer
If you make that the Criteria then you can apply “The Freddying” almost every single killer that has ever released!Freddy was quite literally the worst killer in the game and survivors still wanted him nerfed because they refused to learn that 1 action they had to do to wake up. And then they review bombed the game until he got gutted.
Classic Survivors!
You know, for someone who often claims to play both Killer and Survivor (In other forums) , you have an incredibly jaded view on survivors and an extremely biased view of killers, which makes me wonder the validity of your playstyle given your coddling of the killers. But, eschewing this for the main point, You could say this for any part of the game because it happens on both sides, VERY actively.
One of the biggest points was the Dead Hard nerf that came way back in 2022 and then the goalpost was shifted and moved to the next set of meta perks killers were tired of survivors running, while running the same meta perks like Thana, Pop Goes, BBQ, Undying + Ruin/Devour Hope (Cause that was still a meta back then.), or Corrupt.
And, as you expect, every time a new killer is released that is remotely OP, capable of gaining downs and hooks quite fast, or made doing ANYTHING so utterly oppressive there was no point; the Forums were flooded with survivors in outrage of how busted the new killer is.
- Like when the abomination known as the twins was released
- Or Pinhead
- Or when the Knight released (God, what a time to be alive…)
- How about Skull Merchant? (Wasn't that fun?)
- Remember the Singularity?
- Or maybe Chucky (Insert hellish Doll screams as it charges at you from half way across the map.)
- Oh, Oh, or when Vecna Released and people took to the streets in rage about getting denied their pallet by the mage hand?
The point I'm trying to make is that almost every killer that's released since Twins has either been decent and tolerable or so utterly insufferable to play against that the hatred they got, was (To some degree) warranted.
It has nothing to do with the idea of survivors learning how to counter a killer because that's a fallacy and crutch that every killer loves to hide behind, knowing full well how stupidly powerful most killers are (And still refuse to acknowledge it in hopes that their "New favorite Main" doesnt' get nerf) And everything to do Devs releasing Killers that have more powers then necessary (Dracula, midularity, Lich, Ghoul.) , refusing to deal with literally anything else then adding a new killer/survivor every 3 months. . .
And unsurprisingly, people like you.
Classic Killers. . . -
@DragonMasterDarren said:
This isn't feedback on the perk, because I'm not playing the PTB on account of there not being any content that interests me that won't inevitably be changed from PTB to Live. But I have been seeing a good number of people going "Duty Of Care is abusable and OP", and quite honestly? I don't really see it.
Now, to be fair, I do agree that the perk can be really obnoxious against a 4 man with comms. But the problem I have with that is that it runs under the assumption that a 4 man with Comms is particularly common, which, contrary to what people who have never played Survivor in their life might think, is just fundamentally untrue, SWF, especially the 4man comp boogeymen, are not that common, and quite honestly I don't think I've actually gone against a 4man SWF that had the express intent of winning and humiliating me in actual years, most SWF are just 2 dudes chilling in a Discord call, not a 4 man goof troop intent on ruining people's days.
The second point I have is just asking you to really think on it, how frequently do you, as Killer, get body-blocked by a survivor, or how frequently do you see people taking protection hits? At most I see it happen like once, maybe twice, and I end up downing the body-blocker like 20 seconds later anyway. Body-blocks really do not happen that often, and sure a perk that requires protection hits might encourage more people to go for them, but if we really want to go by that logic, why don't more people run Mettle of Man? Why don't people run more perks that enable repeat body blocks? Simple reason, it ain't worth it.
Like lets really think about this critically for a second, lets say someone runs Duty Of Care in place of one of their existing perks and gets value from it, the killer in that case is just going to chase them. If that's the user's intention then great, the perk's done its job, but what if the user is running a build designed to make the perk as obnoxious as possible? Quite frankly that's a indirect buff to the Killer, because that's one less person running a Meta build, and, more importantly, one less person actively doing gens. Like really think about that, if you're running a build designed to get you healed up quickly and get repeated protection hits, you're probably not going to be on gens, you're going to be in a corner healing, running to teammates for heals, or be in the killer's face going for a body-block. You're not doing the objective, you're not really helping the team progress the state of the match, you're being a annoyance, an effective annoyance probably, but still a annoyance, and honestly I don't really have much issue with that, I'd rather play against a goober not doing gens then a team that wants to do the gens as fast as possible. Interactions between both sides are fun, and this perk means more interactions, which is fine by me.
And the final reason I don't really see the perk being a issue is that a good chunk of killers and perks can either completely ignore it, or render it completely ineffectual, Mobility killers are not going to care if you give someone 6 seconds of Dramaturgy speed, and every killer with a insta-down power or a Exposed perk is just never going to notice it, hell even Legion to a degree can completely negate Duty Of Care by virtue of keeping survivors injured most of the match. Even in a 4-man squad this perk has plenty of counterplay, and that's why I don't feel it will be a issue, you as a Killer have options to counteract it, it forces Survivors to interact with the killer to get value out of it, and the majority of players simply don't play in a way that would make the perk particularly obnoxious. Annoying in a 4-man when you're playing a killer with no insta-down or Exposed perks? Sure, but we shouldn't be concerned or cry foul about perks that might be obnoxious in a literal 1 in a thousand scenario, we should be looking at how something is used by the majority of the player base, and if the majority of the player base either doesn't use it or only uses it in a couple of scenarios, it'll probably be fine.
I said this when Shoulder The Burden released and consequently fell into near irrelevancy less then a month later, don't overhype Niche perks and act like they'll lead to some new insane strategy that'll make killer incredibly unfun and therefore needs to be nerfed immediately, it's 6 seconds of Dramaturgy speed, I think most killers will be fine.
G'night
I feel like people should've seen this type of behavior coming from the moment that the new survivor was released with their perks. Their Perks, in no uncertain terms; can be used quite effectively in terms of Solo Q and SWF.
But, solely focusing on the SWF part (Since you seemed to make a very well educated and put-together POV that needs no interjection) is that killers tend to use it as a strawman & a fallacy all in a single sitting.
They complain and whine about how nasty and OP it can be if a SWF were to get their hands on it while never actually having played against a 4-Man SWF or, even rarer, a bully squad. It's their way of convincing BHVR that buffing survivors despite how well they have it, that they aren't strong enough, Survivors aren't weak enough, and that type of behavior will never change.Honestly speaking, while the new survivor is the biggest band-aid I've ever seen added to DBD, she would do wonders for people in Solo Q because of her perks and how they solely focus on recovering and helping others recover. And to the complete surprise of nobody, the majority of killers are in an uproar because god forbid they have to actually try in a match and god forbid survivors actually get proper perks to help combat the BS that recently came to this game. (AHEM, THE DUMPSTER FIRE KNOW AS "THE GHOUL")
But don't worry, when killers get their their unnecessary buff or additions, watch how fast they turn around and say "Just learn counterplay" and continue to move the goalpost like they weren't just crying murder for some perks solely centered about being altrusitic. -
@Pulsar said:
Didn't see anyone posting this yet, so here it is.
The 8.7.0 Update will be here before you know it, so let’s take a look at the notable gameplay changes you can expect from next week’s Public Test Build, including improvements we recently shared as part of our Quality-of-Life initiative.
You may notice that in this Developer Update, we haven’t included the crunchy numbers associated with certain changes. Without the context of a PTB to dive right into, specific value changes can be difficult to contextualize in the form of a blog. Stay tuned for the PTB Patch Notes, where we’ll share the precise values that are changing!
Read on for all the details:
NEW FEATURES
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/SJUK4JI2YX2K/new-quests-system.png
- [NEW] Added a Quests menu to centralize all quest-related content in one place.
- This replaces the Daily Ritual, Tome Challenge, and Event Tome systems.
- [NEW] Quests are organized into distinct groups, including Daily Quests, Rift Pass Quests, and Event Quests.
- [NEW] Quests do not need to be selected to be considered active. All available quests are eligible for completion at all times.
- [NEW] Upon completion, players receive quest rewards automatically without needing to return to the Quests menu.
- [NEW] Added Milestone Quests, which reward players for completing progressively higher amounts of common in-game actions (i.e. hooking Survivors).
- [NEW] Added the ability to pin multiple quests for easy reference in the Lobby and Match Details screen in-game.
- [NEW] Quest notifications can be toggled on or off via the Graphics options menu.
- [CHANGE] Updated verbiage to use the term “Quest” instead of “Ritual” or “Challenge”.
DEV NOTE: If you caught our latest livestream, you know what’s up – if not, check out the recording here for all the details on the new Quests system!
Our intention behind this system is that – win or lose – we want Trials to feel even more rewarding for players, making in-game tasks and rewards easier to engage with. What this means for you is that you can complete multiple quests per Trial, you can pin quests to easily reference them in-game, and rewards are unlocked automatically to minimizing the amount of time you spend in menus, among other things. Checking things off your to-do list should feel snappy and rewarding, and that’s the feeling we’re aiming for here!
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https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/KSK4H3T0AJ5A/archives-2c-tome-and-rift-changes.png
- [NEW] Extended the number of levels in the Deep Rift and increased the number of available outfit variants within it.
- [NEW] Updated the final Rift tier – following the Deep Rift – to act as a repeatable source of Bloodpoints.
- [CHANGE] Moved access to the Archives from the Lobby main menu to the bottom-screen menu.
- [CHANGE] All Tome lore in the Compendium is now unlocked for all players.
- [UNCHANGED] All existing Tome Challenges can still be completed for Bloodpoints and their page completion rewards. Note: They will not use the new Quests system, meaning they must be activated – one at a time – and redeemed once completed.
DEV NOTE: Alongside the new Quests system, we’ve also adjusted some of the game’s other menus and features. With the Rift, we’re really excited about how quests will make progression more streamlined and are happy to share that we’re adding even more content into the Deep Rift to spice up those level-ups.
While the Archives and Compendium will remain accessible in-game, Rift progression moving forward will be handled through the Quests menu, so you’ll likely see less of these legacy spaces. As a fitting way to show our respect for them, previous Tomes and their challenges will remain available for you to work through, and all lore is unlocked to let you walk down memory lane.
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https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/TSVVBFTH9B18/perks-preview-in-lobby.png
- [NEW] Added a widget highlighting a player’s own Perks in the pre-game Lobby.
- [NEW] Newly unlocked Survivors and Killers come pre-equipped with a Perk in their first slot.
DEV NOTE: There's a lot of info that newer players face when opening the game, so we want to highlight the importance of Perks for them. This widget uses a visual effect to let players know if they have unused Perk slots, making it easy to jump to that menu with a single click.
Pre-equipping a Perk for newly unlocked characters also helps ease players into the game, ensuring they won’t be at a disadvantage in their first Trial if they miss the Perks menu.
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https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/WPH61P6PGN12/pre-equipped-items-and-add-ons.png
- [NEW] Newly unlocked Survivors come pre-equipped with a small set of items and add-ons, as well as some extras in their inventory.
- [NEW] Newly unlocked Killers come pre-equipped with a small set of add-ons, as well as some extras in their inventory.
DEV NOTE: Similar to the above, as we look to the future of Dead by Daylight, it’s important that we re-evaluate players’ first steps within the game. It’s not always clear that they should check a newly unlocked character’s loadout before entering a Trial.
Giving these items and add-ons to newly unlocked characters allows us to highlight the basics of a character’s kit, giving players something to use in their first few Trials.
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- [NEW] Each Survivor can attempt to unhook another Survivor 3 times. On the next attempt, they cannot cancel this interaction.
- [NEW] Each Survivor's individual unhook attempt count resets when the hooked Survivor exits the hooked state.
DEV NOTE: It's not lost on us that unhooking can be used by Survivors to grief others. While we know there can be strategic reasons to cancel an unhook, this isn’t something that should be occurring over and over.
By setting a limit on this action before it becomes uninterruptable, our goal is to ensure well-meaning players have the flexibility to change their tactics on the fly, while also preventing others from using this action for griefing purposes.
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- [NEW] Added an additional window of time in which a skill check will be nullified when letting go of an action as the skill check pops up.
DEV NOTE: We’ve all been there. You get off a generator just a fraction too late and BOOM, you trigger a failed skill check. As a result of your feedback, we’ve added a slightly extended grace period for letting go of generators and healing actions. This should help reduce the frustration of a rogue skill check alerting the Killer, without being so generous that you can be careless with your actions.
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KILLER UPDATES
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- [CHANGE] Decreased Dog Chase Command vault speed.
- [CHANGE] Increased Bloodpoint rewards for all Deviousness scoring events.
DEV NOTE: When vaulting, Snug feels a little fast given how his animation plays out. This can feel off and leaves Survivors with very little time to react. We’ve decreased Snug’s vault speed slightly to better match his animation, while giving Survivors a little more flexibility while being chased around pallets.
We’ve also seen your feedback that the Houndmaster’s Bloodpoint rewards need a little buff. We’ve doubled the reward values of all her Deviousness scoring events to help bring this in line.
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STATUS EFFECT UPDATES
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- [CHANGE] Haste no longer stacks with other Haste effects.
- [CHANGE] Hindered no longer stacks with other Hindered effects.
- [CHANGE] Updated status effect widgets to display current Haste and Hindered values (this can be disabled in the game options).
- [CHANGE] Updated select Perk descriptions to change base movement speed adjustments to Haste or Hindered effects.
- [CHANGE] Introduced small buffs to Perks which previously relied on stacking.
DEV NOTE: Historically, stacking status effects like Haste and Hindered, as well as base movement speed changes, has led to circumstances where certain Perk combos (Made For This + Hope, anyone?) ended up far more powerful than intended.
By streamlining these effects, you’ll only ever move as fast (or as slow) as the highest Haste or Hindered effect currently active (note: the highest value of these two effects will still interact with each other). Our intention is to limit instances of overtuned combos, while making their effects easier to understand, especially as we welcome new players to the Fog.
Stay tuned for the PTB Patch Notes, for an overview of the Perks that will be receiving small buffs to account for the removal of this stacking.
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PERK UPDATES
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- [CHANGE] When a Totem is Rekindled, Survivors’ healing and repair speeds are reduced. This effect is increased for each additional Rekindled Totem. If all five totems are Rekindled simultaneously, all Totems are permanently blocked by The Entity.
- [CHANGE] Survivors cursed by this Perk see Rekindled Totems’ auras within a small radius.
- [CHANGE] Hex: Pentimento no longer reduces recovery speed from being downed or gate-opening speed.
DEV NOTE: It's no secret that Hex: Pentimento’s repair speed debuff is its strongest effect and main draw. With this change, we’ve moved away from giving the full power of this debuff at 1 Totem. Instead, gradually increasing healing and repair debuffs give this effect a more gradual power curve. This preserves its focus on slowing Survivor progression without being too dominant at 1 Totem.
As for aura reading, our goal is to help support solo players who don’t have the benefit of teammates to help with Totem callouts.
Pentimento looks wild. That is all.
Wow, how completely unsurprising that our complaints are lost in the void of the forums. No changes to the Ghoul and no Changes to the Bloodmoon event….
And the crowd. . . . rolls their eyes in disappointment. Who could've seen that coming. . .In other news though, I have a neutral opinion about the Haste/Hinder Stack change. I'm of the opinion that haste SHOULD stack but Hinder SHOULD NOT. But, honestly, it's also a good change since more perks can be balanced around a flat buff rather than a Killer moving at like +50% their Normal speed for running a speed build (Which is outright unfair.)
Pentimentio getting nerfed is also a good thing as contrary to popular belief, It's a perk I see VERY often being ran with other perks like Blood Favor, Haunted Grounds, Undying & Face the Darkness to ensure that they can get their Pentimento stacks.
Though, I'm inclined to agree with others that once survivors figure out Pentimento is in play, it's only a matter of time till it can no longer get its stacks since Survivors won't touch dull totems and will only cleanse the lit totems. (I'm one of those Survivors that tend not to touch Dull Totems till they glow, SPECIFICALLY because of Pentimento lol.)
All other changes are okay, i guess but I'd be lying to say if I wasn't disappointed by the lack of response or addressing to the state DBD is in right now. - [NEW] Added a Quests menu to centralize all quest-related content in one place.
-
@Clevarz said:
I know a lot of things are happening like the event and the release of kaneki and Etc and the fire is only increasing but if you think your hardest is this better than what behavior was and used to be and do you think they are deserving of a little credit for how they "improved" if you believe they did or need to work harder and have a whole lot more room for improvement from being considered "Better" from what they were?
what is your thoughts on thisHonestly? Not really. DBD has been on a steady decline since the 6.1.0 Update way back in July of 2022, and from there, they've only made their game progressively more miserable and miserable to play. Especially for Solo Q. Anyone who plays the game, like the majority of us have a love-hate relationship with the game in the hopes that it'll get better but are CONSTANTLY and REPEATEDLY disappointed by the decisions that BHVR continue to make without any base for feedback or input.
(Or, in the face of entitled killer mains who love having free, easy, brainde@d 4K games and being as toxic as possible; but can't handle facing the same treatment. It's been in a pretty good spot for them since the Devs have actively proven that killers are all that matter.)
The 6.1.0 Update was the framework for all the nonsense and BS both Survivors and Killers are now putting up with and have been putting up with for years. Everything else that followed after that, including THIS Update was the result of the Community not being able to unite as a force and get it through the devs' thick skulls that they should be listening to feedback instead of doing whatever fits their MO.
(And more so to those who defend the update because "They just need more time for data" When they can clearly see that their update was horrid and that the decision-making was even worse.)
Because, as you can see, the lack of pushback was why we have Kaneki as he is now and why things are they way they are now. Couple this with the idea that the DBD devs DONT play their own game, which shows in their decision matching…
And you get this. Dead by Misery, Suffering, Agony, Unfairness, and Complaints.
Hopefully, this paints a clear enough picture. -
@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3906725#Comment_3906725
Personally, I say give it a few more days (if not another week) so we have solid data, then reduce the lock-on* and dial down the grab-Survivors range. Incremental change, not starting a period of see-sawing rebalance-all-the-things.
*I don't agree with removing it entirely for the same reason the devs cited – it'd make the Killer almost unusable on console. It has more drawbacks on a miss than a ranged Killer, can't down, and is used at speed; "difficult" is one thing, it shouldn't be harder than ranged Killers because you've stuck their aim requirements on a mobile platform.
The devs just made that Statement to sate the community. That statement has no foothold in their argument when people have been playing on console for years and been getting kills with killers like Huntress, Death Slinger, Trickster and Clown (Where you have to aim your projectile to actually the desired effect.)
Adding that auto aim was completely unnecessary, and they know it; it's just an excuse to add a new system that if all goes well, they can incorporate into the very other killers I just named and god knows how that'll go if we allow it to root itself to the game. -
@chatgiraffe said:
It feels like this entire system was added as a way to prevent survivors from getting pissed off over being finisher mori'd. 90% of matches I get a 4k, the last guy just DCs cause he doesn't want to watch a 10 second animation. Not to mention, Survivors can basically quit the match whenever they want by giving up and letting the Killer down everyone, meanwhile Killers can only DC once every survivor does. Meaning, a SWF can just leave a match with basically no penalty the second they go against a Killer or Map they don't like, while a Killer is stuck playing out every single match, no matter how badly they want to leave it.
It's sucks that Kaneki is so broken that nobody is pointing out how stupid this system is.This is such a NON-Issue.
You'd rather Survivors have to sit through a mori than just move on. . . ? There's bigger fish to fry than complaining about the abandon system when you're still getting the mori and the BP.
As long as you're getting the BP and Mori, stay happy, you won lil dawg. 🤣 -
@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3906513#Comment_3906513
No, it's perfectly fine that some things are easy to play. This might be a strange concept, but not every Killer should have a high barrier to entry before you can have fun with them, and there is no reason aside from snobbery to go "well, if it's easy to pick up, then it should suck long term". I don't even follow how Survivor perks come into it; perks that are easy to use don't need to be weak (the problem with old DH wasn't ease of use, it was how many effects it basically had at once).
And no, right now Kaneki's a weird beast, because he's more like a legion-blight-deathslinger mix, but doesn't really do the same thing as any of them. More Blight than Wesker, and the vaulting just as easily fits under Legion. Your proposals basically take out the Blight aspect (mobility and can use power to manoeuvre to get downs) and would leave us with a nonfunctional version of Deathslinger+Legion.
Mmm, I think Ghoul's current range is 32m, whereas DS is 24m, so -15 would be nearly half. For a power centred on grabbing objects to use as mobility, limiting that part so drastically guts it: the actual distance traversed compared to walking is quite low, and the ability to latch onto things becomes very poor. DBD has really weird distance judgement sometimes, but to put it one way: the smallest tile is 16x16m; you'd require that you be basically in a tile before the mobility aspect of the power is usable. That's terrible.
A massive cooldown before you can take action after using the power for mobility makes it even worse: no matter where you stop, that's plenty of time to get away, and because of your cooldowns and short range, that's no beating someone to another tile (or using it around a tile, because this kills both aspects).
So, now that we have those numbers out of the way, let's revisit my conclusion: if we took all of your nerfs, we would have a character as hard to aim as Deathslinger, who can only get an injury when travelling at speed – so, already harder than Deathslinger to use just for that part of their power – who can't use their power to directly down anyone; this power can't be used around loops because the cooldowns are terrible, forcing you to be an M1 Killer; can't really use the ability for map traversal in exterior maps because the range is too short and is limited in indoor maps because oh hey there's a wall (same as it is now, tbh); and can't use the ability in chase to bodyblock because again the range and cooldown have been nerfed to hell.
This wouldn't be a character that's fun to play, let alone master, because every part of the kit will feel bad. If it counts as "fun to play against", then that's only because it'd be trivial to deal with. Avoiding the first hit? Well, it's deathslinger-level aim that requires the Killer to use their power on an object first, so that's super telegraphed and easy to avoid. Avoiding downs? Any loop. Any loop and you're an M1 Killer.
Well, then we can simply agree to disagree. I don't agree with making things easy to pick up or play, and you do. That's the fundamental and quite crucial difference between us.
But I do thank you for giving me the math on things because you're right. 15 Meters is too much of a cut, so i take it back. My lack of knowledge on his reach gutted him a bit too hard, so instead, they should drop the range to make it equal with Death Slinger. (24m - 28m) So it's not so damning.
However, I'm going to stand firm on my belief that Kaneki needs to lose his autoaim so that Killers are forced to actually have to AIM to get their hits & that he needs a slowdown at the same rate as Legion or a bit more. (About 2 - 3 Seconds)
Everything else is somewhat trivial as long as those two happen -
@M1_gamer said:
I am not asking for nerfs, I want to try to actually learn his counterplay before i make such decisions.
I'm struggling a little with 1 specific part of his power. I don't know if it has a specific name but its where the ghoul can like launch himself forward at high speeds and tag a survivor with a extended cooldown animation which applies deep wound. I try to take cover, use the environment to make it harder to tag but I seem to be getting tagged before i can even react.
Any tips so i can fix my skill issue?
Counterplay? That's possible against this trash heap of a killer…? The same Killer that's hitting me through walls and has crazy autoaim? The same killer that can leap across maps and flick more effectively than a blight?
Please, tell me more.
-
@RainehDaze said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3906050#Comment_3906050
So your idea is that the power should be as hard to land as Deathslinger despite not downing and being done at speed, have the same range as Deathslinger, the mobility should be gutted, should have no ability to play around loops, and not usable in chase because it's been given a long CD too?
I think your idea of balancing is just a little out of whack, because you have basically proposed that it should be the mutated, malformed baby of Legion and Deathslinger with the only strong point being vaguely decent map traversal before you're an M1 Killer.
This is on top of the weirdly privileged idea that nothing good for a Killer should ever be easy to pick up. <_>
Weirdly privileged is wild, but I'll humor it to answer the question. Yes. I believe that nothing should come free or easy for both sides of the game, I care little for the excuses Killers might come up with to defend their overpowered titans and Survivors excuses for keeping extremely busted perks in game.
The same way Survivors have to work to survive is the same way Killers should have to work to get kills, and as you can see, Kaneki has it too easy for him to do so. (Meaning that whole "Killers are the power role" BS killers like to spout doesn't apply.)
Additionally, What you just told me, by the admission of your own words is that you're aware he's basically a glorified, souped up version of Legion and Death Slinger. (But you forgot to add Wesker.)
So, that means you're aware Kaneki is extremely busted.
And yes, i am of the belief that he has too much mobility and that killers should actually have to AIM to get the desired hit. (Or as you put it, making his power as hard to land as Deathslinger, or Huntress, or Trickster.)
Everything else, though is a statement taken by exaggeration. Nowhere in my statement did I say "Kaneki should have no ability to play around loops." and in fact, I made no mention of it.
What I said was that he needs more slowdown after he makes his leap, and I went into detail on why I thought that.
I don't play Killer, and I don't play Deathslinger, so I don't know how far his Harpoon shot can reach (Nor do I know how far Kaneki's Kagune can reach either, I just know it lets him skip sections of the map at a time and that's not remotely fair.) but, i did suggest they drop his reach by 15 meters, so anyone who knows the math can explain that to me.
His power would still be usable in chase, so I'm not really sure where got that notion from, the difference with my suggested nerf is that he wouldn't be to hardcore bodyblock pathing and easily gain guaranteed hits. -
@DragonMasterDarren said:
I've been enjoying Kaneki a lot, and I was very thankful that BHVR didn't change him outside of making the slide addon basekit when the Chapter went live. But while I personally haven't really seen any issues with him outside of general jank and hitbox problems, it's not exactly much of a secret that Kaneki is highkey one of the strongest killers in the game. I don't really have a issue with this, except for the other fact that Kaneki is incredibly easy to pick up and get good results with.
Let's just quickly compare Kaneki's ease of use to the other big top-tier strongest killers.
Hillbilly has to play around the existence of objects, understand what he can and can't curve around, play around loops in a much different way to a standard m1 chase if he wants a chainsaw down at a loop, can be juked in areas with elevation by ducking under him when he's above you, and has to get used to the Chainsaw's turning.
Nurse is very overrated in terms of how "difficult" she is since you can just slap on the Flannel addon and some aura reading perks and let them take care of 90% of the work for her, but she still has to learn the distance of her blinks, what the best ways of blinking in chase are to actually get a hit, and how to handle survivor mind-games when they break line of sight.
Blight has to learn what he can and can't bump into, how best to line himself up to get a hit at loops, what loops he can and can't use his power at, and can also learn things like bump logic or whatever nonsense "tech" the community finds. I do hate Blight a lot ever since they made his power extremely sticky and clunky but I can't deny that his skill ceiling is pretty high.
Wesker has to learn how to line up and use his bounds at loops to get hits, hitboxes of objects to actually slam survivors against, when vaulting with his power is worth it, and how to use his power in areas with low amounts of objects so that he doesn't just throw a survivor and waste his time.
Kaneki, in contrast, is able to get around the map almost as well if not better then Blight or Hillbilly, gets the first hit practically for free because of his incredibly generous lock on, can cut survivors off from resources at the push of a button with minimal effort required, gets a faster Bamboozle for free because of the Red Centipede addon, can vault over pallets and windows faster then Manual Scamper Chucky when Enraged, and doesn't even need to care about Endurance perks because he inflicts Deep Wound for free, at the cost of having to deal with MFT in every chase.
While I do think people overblow exactly how strong Kaneki is, one thing that is definitely not overblown is how easy he is to play and how little effort is required to actually get good results. I still say that Kaneki is weaker then Nurse and Blight and probably on par with Hillbilly, but there is no denying that he is way, way easier. Which poses a bit of a problem, Kaneki has both a high skill ceiling, and a low skill floor, which is fine, however he suffers from the SM 2.0 problem of being able to get good results with minimal need to actually get good.
I don't think this means we should just make Kaneki much weaker, a strong killer that's easy to pick up is not a bad thing, but he should have to actually work for that strength just like everybody else does. So with that idea in mind, here's how I'd change Kaneki.
- Remove the auto Deep Wound and make it something that only happens to already injured survivors that aren't Kagune Marked. This gets rid of 2 problems, Kaneki's ability to ignore Endurance perks, and his weakness to MFT. I'm not a fan of how easily Kaneki can tunnel, nor am I a fan of the idea of picking a perk specifically to counter one killer, so getting rid of the instant Deep Wound would solve both of those issues and make him need to chew through two health states normally like everybody else
- Make it so that Kaneki can't cancel Kagune Leap in mid-air. I feel like Kaneki currently is able to negate a lot of his intended slowdown by cancelling Kagune Leap while he's still jumping, so just making it so that he can only cancel it when he's done leaping and his feet are back on the ground would give Survivors a bit more room to breathe.
- Increase the cooldown of Kagune Leap, currently Kagune Leap's cooldown is either 8 seconds outside of Enraged, or 7.5 seconds when Enraged, I'd change this to 10 seconds outside of Enraged and 12 seconds while Enraged, just to give Survivors more breathing room.
- Make the lock on less egregious. I completely get wanting to make a power like this easier to use on Console, but currently Kaneki can hit people he isn't even looking at after getting across the map in 10 seconds. Plus there are so many instances already both online and that I've seen personally of a Kaneki accidentally grabbing a survivor when he meant to grab something next to them to cut them off, making this less forgiving would not only make Kaneki less annoying to play against, it would also promote actual skill expression and let good Kaneki's not accidentally grab survivors they don't want to.
So yeah, that's how I'd change Kaneki, like I said, I think he's fun and don't think him being strong is a bad thing, but I do definitely agree that he should be harder to play in exchange for that strength, and these given nerfs would be how I'd make that happen.
G'night
Oh my god. A killer main with their head on straight, thank the lord. This is a place where i can drop meaningful criticism and not be snarky as per the norm.
I Do agree with your take of Kaneki being an S-Tier killer, I'm not sure why people insist on downplaying his strength when they know the truth. He's incredibly oppressive and far too easy to play, get downs with and anti-loop with. He has too much mobility and too much pressure.
Unfortunately, though, I have to disagree on the take of "A strong killer that's easy to pick up isn't a bad thing." That's a bad thing, that's an extremely bad thing for the sole purpose that as you admitted in your own post: Nurse, Blight & Billy all have a relatively high skill ceiling , So Kaneki should get the same treatment without question. (Besides the fact that we still have to deal with killers like Dracula, and i don't need to explain that vampiric pile of trash.)
I do agree with some of your nerfs, but personally, I think it should be a bit Heavier than that.
1. They need to remove his auto-aim. It never should've been added in the first place and that opens grounds for them to add auto-aim to killers like Huntress, Deathslinger and Trickster, and that would get annoying really fast. Additionally, this would force killers to actually have to AIM at survivors if they want to land their M2 like the killers I just mentioned.
(Additionally, even console players can make use of killers like DeathSlinger, Trickster, Huntress, and like all killers, they just have to learn how. Kaneki should be no different, period.)
2. They need to add more slowdown to Kaneki after he leaps. The same way Legion slows down after exiting his power, allowing survivors to make distance to another tile is the same way that Kaneki needs to be treated, so that even if he DOES bodyblock, Survivors can actually manuver away. (2 - 3 Seconds would be good.)
3. He can only mark one person at a time. While he can put other players into the deep wound status by using his M2, he can only MARK one survivor at time which would make it more challenging for Kaneki to stay in his enraged state. (Of course, add-ons can be used to extend his Kagune Mark Timer or extend how many PEOPLE can mark.)
4. Reduction of his Kagune Leap (By at least 15m) This one is purely optional based on the slowdown he'd get after making his leap, but he shouldn't be able to traverse across the map faster than a Billy, a Blight, or a Nurse. Most people completely and wholeheartedly disagree with that notion and so do i.
Not to mention, he can flick his direction like a Blight can to control the landing spot and area and if he can do that, then his Kagune Leap Range needs to get cut. (Or, they just remove his slide and not make it base kit, lmao.)
Personally, I don't know why the devs decided to push out this update DESPITE knowing that these problems existed and even BUFFED HIM, but this update was NOT it. -
@xGodSendDeath said:
Hey autoaim is nice for us playing on console, you know, the majority of the playerbase. It's great to have a strong killer that plays well on console
The majority of DBD players are PC. I don't really know where that notion came from, lol.
-
@biggybiggybiggens said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3905653#Comment_3905653
Agreed. It's pretty obvious what's gonna happen.. Denial can be an ugly thing.
Denial is ugly cause people refuse to accept the truth of the matter.
Kaneki is broken.
Boom. I said it in big, bold letters, does that draw attention to it or are we gonna here the same excuse people always hide behind when something stupid cracked is released and they don't want to see it get nerfed?
"Just find counterplay" and provides no examples on how to counter this white-haired trashbin -
@dbd900bach said:
Kaneki is definitely a little overtuned. His first free hit needs limitations such as a shorter range and a smaller hotbox to make it more deliberate rather than just point and clicking in a survivors general direction.
However, after that it gets complicated. His ability to get the first hit and down is extremely good, but toning down the wrong aspects will just make him clunky or kill him entirely. Like it or not, it needs to be a slow process. Small changes here and there to see how they feel but never anything drastic to tone him down little by little until he's in a more balanced spot. This is the most fun killer we've had since Wesker so it's a delicate situation.
Most fun since Wesker…?
What happened to Dracula? Xenomorph? Skull Merchant? Midgularity? VECNA????? (No, I'm not saying that all of those are ridiculously busted with the exception of Dracula, he definitely needs a change; just making a point.)
I'm not sure where the fun is supposed to be, but as you can hear by the wails of agony and an overpowered killer that should've been nerfed before he released Public… A little overtuned is the understatement of the century.
He definitely needs a smaller range, he needs more slowdown after making a leap and they need to remove his autoaim so that that first hit BS is no longer free. -
@danielmaster87 said:
Well, you gave some reasoning at least, but I still don't agree. I can't imagine you've played the killer yourself, just what I'm reading between the lines. Kaneki really isn't that strong against decent survivors.
His initial injuring of you is gonna be no different than if you went against Legion, and we don't call Legion OP, except for people who give him max value on his power by all healing to full over and over. His special attack isn't supposed to be easy to dodge. It's supposed to be fast, because if it wasn't, there'd be no point in using it to injure, and it would massively impact his mobility with his dashes.
Him hitting you through walls is a bug or desynch or something, but that's obviously going to be fixed. You can't factor that into a killer's power level. Unless the devs allow hitting over objects with it, similar to Nemesis' tentacle, that's the only form hitting you through walls that's gonna stay in the game.
His mobility with his dashes is supposed to counter shift W/holding forward, because you can do that against almost every killer in the game and they won't have any counterplay to it. Because it's never you just holding forward to the corner of the map; you're holding forward until you reach a strong loop or building, and then start looping all over again. His ability to slide over pallets with a quick recovery is power creep on Wesker's slide-over, and it creates mindgames at loops which you have to read him at, but that doesn't make him impossible to loop. You have to learn the limit of what the killer player can actually do, which is best done by watching gameplay of the killer POV or playing them yourself.
Your proposed changes would destroy this killer, to where nobody would want to play as him. 10 seconds before being able to use his power for injuring, even though his 2 rush tokens are ready? That would feel so limiting and janky to what he can do. Or him having less distance per rush so that he can't fly "across the map in seconds"? They tried doing this with Hillbilly and Wesker, to where the distance you lose from the miss cooldown where you're moving extremely slow, whereas the survivor is still going full speed, you might as well have ran at them as a basic 115% M1 killer. Same with Pig's crouch/dash attack, or Dredge with his locker TPs. Nobody likes playing a killer whose ability gives more risk and downside for missing than just M1ing all match, because then they're either dealing with that downside or they're too scared to use it and are forced to M1. Lose-lose.
That is a blatant lie and you know it, that heap of trash killer is the most annoying thing to face, and it's only been 3 DAYS. He's incredibly strong and that's coming from a person who just got out of 10 Matches of Tokyo Mid Hell.
His lunges give him too much reach and NOT enough slowdown/recoil to actually ALLOW survivors to make some, if not any form of distance. (Like how it's SUPPOSED TO BE WITH THE LEGION & BLIGHT.) His lunges and grabs are faster and wider than Deathslinger's harpoon, so it's unviable to dodge him and not to mention; WITH those same lunges, he can flick and whip around corners to prevent you from getting to vaults and pallets, effectively body blocking you and guaranteeing a hit because he's in the path you were GOING to take. (Which isn't that hard to do.)
"His power only allows him to put you in deep wound" doesn't matter when he can launch himself across the map like a blight and flick himself around corners like spiderman; Not to mention his ability to leap over Vaults and Pallets with his power like wesker.
It's like they took the powers of Legion, Blight and Wesker and collaged it all into one and said "Yeah, This'll do.".
While 10 seconds IS absurd, he needs way more cooldowns and recoil than people are actually willing to admit just for a chance at another OP Killer. -
@Bodark said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3904395#Comment_3904395
This perk has never once made a difference. It will never and I mean NEVER stop you from getting to a loop if you know where it’s at. If you don’t make it, then you weren’t gonna make it anyways. 5% is irrelevant. It should be 10%
Alright. Seems like you're thoroughly convinced there's nothing wrong with this perk, so you keep telling yourself that and see where that gets you. 👍️
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@Bodark said:
It’s not April Fools anymore lmao. This perk is almost entirely useless and one of the weakest perks in the game.
Oh, wow, someone who chooses to downplay the ability of the perk by what I can only assume is intentional ignorance.
When you run a couple matches with the "Most weakest perk in the game" and find yourself getting downed before you can get to a pallet, then, you can ride that horse all day long. -
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/441615/knock-out-change-why
Champion of light does the same to the killers, on top of that it does give the survivor a speed boost.
Right, but you know why you NEVER see any survivors using it?
The answer might shock you… Lightborn.
Y'know, the perk that came with the 3rd killer of the game? the most accessible, base-kit available, perk for killers and that negs all flashlights, flashbangs, fire crackers and all that…? Yeah. That.
Also, while you're right, you're also wrong. While Champion of light does give you a haste boost, it only works when you're shining a flashlight…and as most people know, when shining a flashlight, you move incredibly slow.
So, CoL isn't as groundbreaking as you think it is. -
@DragonMasterDarren said:
This is a joke, right?
Like the only reason they changed the perk was so that Slugging builds would get shot, I feel like that was incredibly obvious, but 5% hindered for 5 seconds does virtually nothing lol
Right, Right. When you play a match and have to drop a pallet so you don't go down and there's another tile you can go to to keep the chase going, but the hindered status kicks in so you go down anyways BECAUSE YOU COULDN'T GET TO THE LOOP IN TIME, THEN you can tell me what i just said was a "Joke."
Cause no one's laughing.
Did Knock out need to get changed? Yes. Was this the way to do it? NO.
There were so many different ways they could've handled knock out, but instead, they decided to punish survivors for dropping a pallet at all and reward killers regardless of whether that pallet is broken or not.@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3904072#Comment_3904072
actually a pallet break adds a lot more than 6 meters. A pallet is about 3 meters in size, if the survivor is on the other side of the pallet, thats 3 meters. Breaking a pallet takes 2.34 seconds. During that time, a survivor moving at 4 m/s can move 9.36 meters, when adding the 3 meters or so it becomes 12.36. Lets round down and say 12 meters.
The way lunges work in dbd, is that they increase your movement speed to 6.9 m/s for 0.9 seconds, and then you do your attack. (the speed is slighly slightly less for 4.4 killers but it still rounds up to 6.9). An attack extends out about 1 meter. During the 0.9 second lunge, a survivor can travel 4 m/s x 0.9 = 3.6 meters. The killers attack box extends out 1 meter, so to hit the survivor the killer must be within 4.3 meters of the survivor to hit them.
So, in summary. Breaking a pallet, if the survivor just runs in a straight line to the corner, the killer has to close a gap of 12.36 - 4.3 = 8.06 meters. Doesn't sound like much. But killers gain only 0.6 meters of distance per second of chase. So closing that gap of 8.06 meters is going to take 13.43 seconds.
For context it takes about 30 seconds to cross from one end of a map to the other. So you can cross 1/3 of the map in this time, plenty of time to reach yet another pallet or loop.
13.43 seconds is a long time in dbd. Thats 3 survivors working gens for 13.43 x 3 = 40.3 seconds. That single pallet break, even if the survivor just runs to a corner of the map in a straight line, will cost the killer almost half a gen to land that single hit.
This is flawed in 3 different ways.
1. This is just equating for basic M1 Killers, meaning killers with ranged attacks like Deathslinger, Huntress, Demogoron, Nemesis can still make that.2. This is under the assumption that the killer BREAKS that pallet and doesn't include the equation of the speed survivors would travel WITH the hindered status. Not to mention, your whole equation proves my point. If a pallet is 3 Meters, and the range is 6 Meters, you're GOING to get the hindered status if you try to loop around a dropped pallet, meaning you get punished for dropping.
And, in the screenshot provided. It says "If a Survivor moves 6 Meters away from that pallet within 6 seconds, they recieve a 5% Hindered status."
So, even momentarily LEAVING the range of the pallet just to tightly hug the loop in the assumption the killer doesn't break the pallet and goes around; You still get hit with that 5% hindered status.
3. This doesn't account for bloodlust. It accounts for base speed of possibly, a 110% killer (Naturally, i could be wrong on this. You seem more knowledgable on that fact so feel free to correct me if I guessed wrong.)
All in all, my point stands as your statistics confirm. This makes ALL loops EXTREMELY UNSAFE.@MrMori said:
Knock Out destroyed solo players, and less experienced ones even more so, while stronger players and coordinated SWFs didn't care in the slightest since they already have all the info that knockout takes away from solos. I think it's a fine change. But the perk is awful now, and it definitely should work even if the pallet is broken within 6 seconds of it being dropped. Especially considering Bubba will be doing that a lot with his chainsaw, and now his own perk doesn't even work if he's shredding pallets in chase with his chainsaw as survivors predrop them.
Ah, yes. Let's buff a perk to further damn survivors for trying to make distance on a loop, knowing full well how oppressive this perk is.
Wonderful idea. 😒 -
@RpTheHotrod said:
Hard to say. If you stay at the loop, the perk does nothing (ie if you're running the loop). It seems to be aimed towards punishing pre-droppers who just drop and then w to the next loop. I suppose it can hurt if you drop and the killer immediately breaks, but you already have a 6 meter headstart while they are stuck in the breaking animation before your 5% speed penalty begins.
Yeahhhh…. 6 Meters ain't ANYTHING any killer, lmao. They can close that distance ABSURDLY fast. That isn't an upside at all.
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@iloveandhatethisgame said:
thoughts? I feel like the game right now is the balanced it’s ever been considering that back then we had so many broken metas or perks. Can this game always improve? Of course and I hope it does with the health patches
I can't say I agree, nor can i say that i disagree.
DBD is always fluctuating; the meta of how many wins survivors are getting or how often the killer is "losing" is generally always shifting, but ever since that update back in July of 2022. (The dreaded 6.1.0 update that got PLENTY of perks nerfed and Killers buffed). I can say for certain that DBD took a drastic change in direction and started a chain of events that hasn't exactly been healthy for the community of DBD.As of now though, it seems like they're trying to make up for the damage that update (And every other update that followed) did but if you ask me, I think it's a little late to start throwing in all these modifiers and additions and think that it's going to help anything.
It's like cutting someone's limb off and then wrapping a bandage around it like it's supposed to help anything. Like, the limb is still gone, and they're still bleeding, so what exactly was fixed?? -
@Nomade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3903095#Comment_3903095
Killers haven't gotten a single good killer perk in such a long time and even when we do they are nerfed allmost instantly. Seriously, the last actually good killer perk was Weave Attunement and that was 9 months ago. How long did it take for that to get nerfed? A couple of weeks or less? Meanwhile Shoulder the Burden has been out for what, 6+ months and still has not been nerfed despite even some survivor mains saying its bad for the game? There is a clear difference between how the devs treat killer players and how they treat survivor players and not only is it not fair but it is kind of sickening how so many people just turn a blind eye to it.
This is blatantly not true, lmao. Killers have gotten PLENTY of good perks as did survivors and you know what happened?
They got nerfed.
Do you remember when the Undying, Ruin, Devour Hope Combo came to DBD? Back when the Blight was just added? Or Lethal Pursuer back when nemmy came to DBD with RPD? (I still hate RPD with a passion.)
Lethal Pursuer is STILL one of the best perks for Killers to use. (And, it got BUFFED, mind you; so now 50% of Killers run lethal + BBQ.)
Or when Demogoron came to DBD. Surge and Mindbreaker basically being apart of every Killers Kits.
Or how about when the concept of Boons was added to DBD when Mikaela was added? I've NEVER seen a perk get nerfed FASTER than Circle of Healing. Ask any killer who PLAYED a match with mikaela & COH, what THAT was like. I promise you, the answer you'll get will surprise you.
My point is, Killers have gotten PLENTY of extremely powerful perks, more so than survivors have. But all of them have received their "Due Diligence" because they are VERY powerful in the hands of either competent killers or competent survivors.NOTE: (I don't make mention of SWF because basing your opinion off of a SWF is a terrible way to go. It's biased and skewed no matter what way you'll look at it. SWF will always be strong no matter how much you try to "balance them" because it's communication and teamwork over an overpowered killer. ) -
@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3902681#Comment_3902681
So how do you explain when survivors decide to literally DC and go next at the start before the killer has even done anything? which seems to be the majority of people that go next so so at the start v any killer. If people know what killers are going to do (tunnel, camp ect) regardless of what killer it is then it begs the question why play at all? Fair enough if it's a case of maybe the next match will be better because they are giving the next match a chance. But to DC at the start before anyone has even had a chase isnt giving the match a chance so it makes no sense why join unless they are looking for a specific killer on a specific map to use a specific build.
a while a go I was killer and literally couldn't get a match at all because I had a map offering, people would DC in loading screen and they openly admitted they wanted their map (usually autohaven) nothing to do with what killer it was or what build they had or what tactic the killer used. It's a case "I want this and this and if I don't get it I will DC or go next" sorry but that kind of childish mindset isn't something that bhvr should pander to.
Survivors say "why should I play something I don't enjoy?" Fair enough but the fact people go next at the frequency they do says they don't enjoy the game so simply don't play. It's almost like they roll a dice hoping to get a 6, if they get anything other than a 6 they reroll and try again...and again until they get that 6. Each time they reroll that dice they don't screw over the killer they screw over their own team mates and that's why so many people don't enjoy survivor soloq.
There is no defense for people who DC at the start of the match, that's just on them. I suppose they'd rather take a DC penalty rather than face a killer they don't like. I can't imagine it nor do i understand it, I can't even have sympathy for it.
But, soloq is miserable for whole other reason that has little to do with survivors going next or DCING and that has a lot to do with the other issues I brought up. -
@SummerBBQDwight said:
Dash, range, Dash, range, dash, range, Dash, range, dash, range, anti-loop, anti-loop, anti-loop,...
Can we get like more trapper type killers? Set up killers? Something that doesnt counter loops and have distance? We need more trapper killers, we need more than you dash, you can't loop or I go fast powers.
@Reinami said:
We had and have killers like that, let me list them and maybe you'll see a trend:
- Trapper
- Killer whose power is about setting up a web of traps and forcing survivors to step in them instead of being directly anti-loop
- Hag
- Similar to trapper
- Freddy
- I'm talking the old one that had to put survivors to sleep, where it was about forcing the survivors into the dream world where he would slow the game down significantly, and the survivors had to work to wake themselves up.
- Pig
- Survivors are forced to remove traps off their heads through alternate gameplay objectives
- Legion
- Legion has the power that makes it very easy to injure survivors, but then is purely an m1 killer.
- Twins
- It could be argued that victor is "anti-loop" but twins is more of a "swap and control 2 characters" type killer where you create scenarios where both halves of the killer work together
- Pinhead
- Survivors have to find and look for the box, giving them an alternate objective. The other part of the power is partially anti-loop, but the true power of pinhead is in the box.
- Sadako
- Sadako really doesn't have a "power" per se. She isn't really invisible, and has a heartbeat indicator. Her power is more about the map control and slowing the game down by forcing survivors to do tape runs, rather than directly interacting with the survivors. She's more about macro than micro gameplay
- Knight
- Knight is actually similar to sadako. Generally you aren't using the knight's power to chase or down survivors, you are using it to make them waste time while you are able to conduct 2 "chases" at the same time, forcing more macro rather than micro gameplay
- Skull Merchant
- Skull merchant was about setting up a web of drones then forcing survivors to run into those drones. The drones themselves aren't very good at anti-loop, like old legion, sure she might "eventually" down a survivor at a loop if they stay too long, but the amount of time that takes isn't going to win you the game. You need to play smart and break chases frequently and force surviors into your web.
Now, do you see the trend here? The killers that are not anti-loop, are basically the killers where survivors are forced to "not do gens". Now you could argue that pinhead and pig have somewhat of anti-loop powers. But their "true" power is actually their ability to slow the game down, by forcing survivors into an alternate objective.
So, what else do all these killers have in common? Other than pinhead, every single one of these killers is either horrible, or has been gutted and nerfed into oblivion, due to survivors complaining about them despite them not actually having that high of a win rate.
- Trapper is probably the worst killer in the game and BHVR has stated they want that by design since he is the killer "new players" will start with
- Hag was gutted when they just made it so survivors can just remove her traps whenever and she is STILL 110% killer, and on top of that survivors hate her "proxy camp" playstyle, the only reason she isn't complained about as much is because she isn't played as often as the others.
- Old freddy slowed the game down so much that survivors were better off waking up and then working on gens instead of just powering through and working on gens. Everyone HATED this and complained because "it slows the game down too much and its unfun". But freddy was more about slowing the game down rather than having a direct anti-loop power. But then, again, gutted
- Pig forces survivors to do a secondary objective, or just literally die. And again, she isn't very good, and has been nerfed constantly. Only recently has she gotten some buffs, but those have been in her stealth and chase power. The traps still do nothing if used at endgame because "reasons"
- Legion is constantly complained about as being unfun and annoying to play against survivors. And look what they are doing! Nerfing mending (the thing that allows legion to slow the game down and force survivors not to do gens) and buffing other aspects of the kit, which are going to make the chase ability a bit better, while nerfing the slowdown.
- Twins was going to get a rework that changed the slugging style and everyone complained about that one. Also, that rework was going to turn twins into, yet again, another anti-loop killer. The current one has to play tactially and slug survivors at the right times and pick them up at the right times, and twins is still probably on the chopping block for nerfs again given the nerfs coming to slugging, a core part of the killers identity.
- Pinhead is the only killer that hasn't been nerfed that still has this, and is one of the reasons why i play him so much. He is able to slow the game down passively because survivors have to look for that box, and if they don't, they are gonna have a bad time. But given that he was listed a while back as one of the killers getting changes, i suspect his nerfs are coming.
- Sadako has been reworked so many times now people barely know what she does. But her previous iteration, the one that added global stacks was great. It created real threat in the power, and force survivors to again, stop slamming gens as fast as possible, and work on a secondary objective. But we can't have that, so now all they have to do is slam the gens, take a 5 second break to pick up the tape when the TV turns on, and then keep slamming gens.
- Knight's in an interesting spot as well, because he is similar to pinhead in that his recent changes actually nerfed his chase power and made his map control power better. I suspect that he is a sleeper killer, and is similar to hag and not complained about simply due to how rare he is to face. But i think as time goes on, he is going to become more popular and get added to the chopping block.
- Skull merchant needs no explanation. Her last iteration before her intentional nerfs to make her useless was pretty good, just needed some slight tweaks. She is a victim of the "chess merchant" mentality because she came out during a time where that meta was strong, and her power synergized with that strategy. Now that there is the 8 kick limit, she has been nowhere near as oppresive. But again, she has a power that forces survivors to think about where they move rather than just simply dodging it, they must do a secondary objective to weaken it, again, staying off of generators. And look what she is being reworked into, a boring generic "dash" style killer.
Every time a killer comes out or is changed in a way that forces survivors to NOT DO GENS in order to counter the power, that killer is complained about until they are reworked and/or nerfed. If the power requires survivors to do anything other than "dodge left" or "dodge right" its some massive problem that needs to be nerfed for some reason.
Survivor mains only have themselves to blame for the anti-loop killers, and at this point, i don't actually know what killer they want to go against. Because survivors complain about most of these killers above, and also about anti-loop powers, and also about slugging, and also about tunneling, and also about slowing the game down. At this point i'm convinced they would only be happy playing against a perkless trapper that doesn't use his traps.
You see, the thing about everything you listed doesn't come down to the killer characters themselves; it comes down to the people PLAYING those killers.
All of those killers weren't meant or made with the intention to be "Anti-loop", they were made with the goal to get survivors to think outside the box and force another type of gameplay. (By your own admission.)
it was Players that saw the potential of being downright oppressive and made it mainstream knowledge about how Knight can down a survivor at a tile by having them caught by his power and then intercepting them moments after getting hit.
it was Players who saw the potential of Skull Merchant being the ultimate 3 Genner and made it mainstream knowledge.
It was Players who saw the DISGUSTING potential in HAG to be the most OBNOXIOUS killer and place traps at hooks rather than at a loop or a gen. (Hag is honestly not a good point to use considering i haven't had a problem with her since 2020, lol; but you get the gist.)
It was Players who saw the potential in LEGION to easily get Thanaphobia stacks and slow the game down IMMENSELY. (Which is the reason why Thanaphobia has been nerfed and reworked as many times as it has.)
It was Players who saw the potential in Twins to make them THE MOST OBNOXIOUS killer to date and use Charlotte to body block players while victor runs around the gremlin he is, revealing survivor locations by his growls; or even an extremely powerful slugging/camping duo.
It really has nothing to do with the killers and their powers, it has alot to do with players having zero moral code and choosing to play in ways that no doubtly will piss other people off, lmao.
(And yes, the same can be said for survivors; but this topic isn't about that.) - Trapper
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@jajay119 said:
I’ve had three matches today and two of them had some abysmal survivor play. One match a Sable (of course) decided to kill hers self on hook and the other two survivors just threw themselves at the killer. 4 gens undone. My third match none of the other three survivors touched a gen once, apart from me who solo did a gen. We spent 15 minutes just unhooking, healing and running round.
Honestly I get there’s a big uproar bout camping and tunnelling making the game hard to play and unfun right now, lord knows I’ve been a vocal part of those discussions, but this does not help at all. Neither of these killers did C&T by the way. Why even queue up?
I'd say I'm surprised, but I'm not. This is the result when BHVR wants to pander to one side of the community rather than address the actual root causes and problems that people have being raising the flag for, FOR YEARS.
But, alot of it has to do go with the "I hope next match will be better" Mentality. It's a twisted kind of adoration for the game but that's what keeps DBD going, unfortunately. Alot of players just DC or go next hoping for a better match, only to run into another killer running meta perks like Pentimento, Plaything, Thana, PGTW and Pain Res
Coupled with oppressive killers like Dracula or Singularity, and you get the aggravated "Alright, let's move on." Mentality.
This isn't even surfacing the issue of Slugging/Camping that Killers love to do and then hide behind their wall of "u played this offering, of course I'm gonna slug. " Or "Look at what perks you had, of course I'm gonna tunnel" Like it's a proper excuse while you're running the ultimate Gen slow down build and expect people to enjoy sitting there for minutes on end watching their 95% gens regress to 60%.