SOULWARRIOR71K
SOULWARRIOR71K
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@dollidahlia said:
Change the win condition from kills to hooks.
this right here would discourage more killer players to camp and tunnel and instead spread out their hooks.
it’s a win-win for both sides.
survivors have a higher chance of escaping because everyone is being two hooked instead of tunneled out of the game.
and killers still get to rank up and pip because they met the condition of hooks. It would also feel more rewarding for the killer that they hooked everyone twice.
of course, there are gonna be some killers who still will tunnel and camp but this should minimize it
As mentioned by others, killers who relentlessly camp and tunnel don’t care about points. They just care about “winning” in the easiest and most consistent way possible. And there’s zero chance that a game called Dead By Daylight will not be based around kills.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
Not really. Her 3 gen is only good if survivors let it be.
If they actually bother to interact with her power her 3 gen abilities are about as good as a trapless trapper
She is really good at defending totems but she still can only be at one place at a time.
It isn't much stronger then demo's ability to defend totems and that boy can fast travel through his portals
This is incorrect. Maps that have built in easy 3 gens, can still be locked down for long periods of time if the SM chooses to do so. Dead Dawg, RPD etc. sure you can win if everyone attacks the 3 gen setups from the start but if that doesn’t happen, it’s going to be a long game. And trust and believe it will get worse after the next patch because they will equip sloppy to get the slow down that way.
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Ok so I’m not crazy. This definitely happened to me and I was like #########. I’m assuming that people know this because I’ve noticed an uptic in its usage as of late.
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If you want to tunnel, then tunnel. However consider the following. Survivors know if someone is tunneled out with 2-3 gens remaining, it is pretty much a loss unless the remaining 3 are a well coordinated swf. If you are tunneling at 5 gens, you more than likely have slowdowns stacked (COB, Overcharge, PR, Deadlock etc), which further enable this strategy. For the person that got tunneled, the round was essentially pointless. For those that remain, the round is essentially hopeless.
And the truth of the matter is this: killer mains pretend like they are losing way more than they actually are. I'm willing to bet when you aggressively tunnel, you are winning way more than you are losing (and doing so with minimal effort/skill required).
If you really want to know why it's looked down upon, just go play solo queue for a month. You'll find out real quick how often games fall apart because 1 person is tunneled out early. From the killer perspective it's great because you win fairly consistently. From the survivor perspective it's just an eye rolling experience because you know how it will most likely end.
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@TigerSnake said:
Overcharge is literally the least of those problems lmao. If you can’t get back to the gen within 25 seconds or hit the skill check, that’s on you.
It’s not the skill check that’s the issue. It’s that the drone immediately tells her you are there and then she just puts another drone right back. Hence why the devs are changing this. It’s not a skill issue. It’s that this strategy requires zero skill while being extremely effective.
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I don't think you can truly stop a killer from tunneling if that's what they want to do. However, you could make it so that if someone is hooked back to back, that their struggle timer is doubled and skill checks are removed for the duration (something like a built in reassurance). Now the killer will have a choice; proxy camp to wait for the extend timer to elapse and lose all the gens in the process, or go for another chase. This would of course need to shut off once the last gen is powered. The aim shouldn't be to punish per say, but to de-incentivize unhealthy tactics and encourage more healthy gameplay.
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Reported the same thing too
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/368196/pc-missing-wall-on-haddonfield#latest
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@WaveyTrey said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3367799#Comment_3367799
Because that’s boring. That’s why. It isn’t the killer. The player is the one deciding to play that way. People are always going to play foul by cheating. Use the most OP perks, or make the cheesiest plays to win. That will never go away.
But almost every SM is playing like this and as such, they should have 0 expectations for survivors who don’t want to suffer through 30-60 minutes of trying to finish 1-2 gens against a killer who won’t chase.
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@NerfDeadHardPLZ said:
Why not simply take out 3 gen spawn completely ? make gens be far from each other on every map, every time, problem solved. It's huge nerf but step in right direction, alongside this they have to nerf gen speed addons/ittems/perks and they have to make gen last much much longer before getting done to balance the spawns
Maps aren’t big enough to completely avoid 3gens. But maps also shouldn’t be bigger because non mobility killers already suffer on big maps.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
"Abuse" lol.
Sure most Survivors are abusers too because they all bring Dead Hard.
Using the best strategy = abuse 👍👍.
And no, your change idea is bad. She needs changes but not these and not a direct nerf. She needs some serious buffs.
@pizzavessel15 said:
its not "abuse." its a strategy. and its the only thing she has. if you take that away she is potentially the worse killer in the game with basically nothing.
@Viktor1256 said:
Using a good strategy is not abuse
Yes it is abuse. I view it no differently then when the devs overbuffed boil over and survivors were running to the library on the old RPD to make themselves unhookable. It isn't strategy when it doesn't require any thought or skill to do. There is no way to justify how this is good "strategy" on maps that have built in 3 gens (like dead dawg) that can be defended from the moment the match starts. I'm just going to assume you haven't played against this as a solo survivor yet because if you had, you'd realize how dumb it is to know the game is lost from the beginning if the SM does this and has slowdown perks stacked on top.
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@WaveyTrey said:
Good thing about SM is she can also give players more things to do if she wanted. I’ve been using SM with totems, and it’s been fun. No DCs. She’s the only killer that can effectively run a full totem build, and everyone sleeps on that. By keeping a drone on Thrill you ensure that cleanse attempts consume survivors time. Combined with Oppression you make 3 gens regress if you see multiple players trying to cleanse. If they manage to break your totems have Pentimento on standby until after someone dies… To inflict gen penalties… Remaining survivors would have to break rekindled totems, which you would’ve placed drones around them to alert you if they try. All of that gives her the full ability to leave her 3-gens to chase players. It isn’t the killer. Players decide to play with her in an unsportsmanlike way. DBD pretty much encourages foul play from both sides.
Why do all that when they can just stand in one corner of the map and stall the game with significantly less effort?
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@ProfessorDunwich said:
People DC as soon as they see Skully. You cannot play an actual game with her.
There’s not a lot of people who want to play a 30 minute game trying to break a 3 gen against a killer who won’t chase.
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@I_CAME said:
Gonna keep giving up against her until something changes. People pretending like these long games are rare is the most baffling to me. Nearly every SM I have played against uses the three gen strat. It's just a waste of time to sit in one game for 30-40 minutes. I get absolutely nothing for staying in a game like this. Impressing randoms on the forum by sitting through these horrible games doesn't mean anything to me. I'm not losing any sleep over someone I don't know thinking less of me.
I don’t blame you. I’ve already had my fill of these long drawn out stalemates. If a game gets too long, I just walk over and let them hook me so I can move on. It’s getting so bad that with 2 gens left, you can already tell what is about to happen. If they refuse to chase and gens can’t get done, not sure what people are supposed to do other than give up.
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@NerfDeadHardPLZ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/367501/do-something-about-this-3-gen
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/GA6XN2A8EIQP/image.png
This is how mine skull merchant matches are looking like, instant give up on 4 gens
What did you expect with 4 slowdowns and a map offering lol. They said she can have the win. We will take our freedom instead lol.
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@Quizzy said:
Funny how ppl keep complaining about 3 gen strats when potential energy is literally right there. But nobody wants to use it. Oh well.
How are you storing potential energy once the drones are above the 3 gen? Once you use it, if the gen is not done, it will regress again with no way to charge the energy for long enough to be useful.
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@Saitamfed said:
Not trying to be THAT guy but, Have you tried not 3-gen yourself? It's quite easy once you've figured the trick...
You do realize that certain maps are spawning very easy 3 gens right?
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@Xendritch said:
This thread makes me happy the community has no real input in terms of balances changes because holy hell that would be awful. SM basically wouldn't have a power if they didn't work while you were on gens and shotgun speakers and adi valente #1 basically wouldn't do anything as add-ons.
I've watched TTVs against my SM and they literally are too scared to run through drone areas and just stand around waiting for them to go inactive if that's how everyone is playing against SM ofc she seems too strong. Running into active drone areas are not scary run in and deactivate the drones as soon as you find them and if everyone is doing that SM shouldn't really be able to keep up her gen pressure buying you time to break the 3 gen while she's waiting to get her drones back.
The problem is the current meta which is very favorable to SM and teams don't really understand how to play against her yet. I've said it's like cenobite in terms of cooperation but having thought about it more it's more like plague. With plague everyone needs to be on the same page either everyone cleanses and overloads her fountains or nobody cleanses meaning she never gets red vom. Now just never doing drones isn't really an option because that's too risky but when someone is disarming a drone everyone needs to disarm all the drones so it's gonna take SM close to 45 seconds if she wants to setup again so if you do this 2 or 3 times you should be able to break the 3 gen and after you do that she's mostly harmless after that depending on her add-ons.
SM really isn't too strong by any means I think she's stronger than a lot of people say but she's pretty average in my estimation with extreme strengths and weaknesses. I think people are struggling with her because she's more puzzle like than most other killers. You don't beat her by looping you beat her by solving her drone network and breaking the 3 gen before doing other gens because she's much easier to beat after you do that. This is something very different than most players are used to so it's gonna take a lto fo time to get used to.
This is just false all the way around. You can deactivate drones all day, and guess what? She puts one back a few seconds later. Now think about the 3 gen set up on a map like dead dawg. The gens in the back and within eyesight of one another. COB + Overcharge + PR and drones overhead = you are not getting those gens done without bnps.
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@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3366557#Comment_3366557
Deja Vu is a perk.
I run it and it does nothing to prevent the killer from protecting said 3 gen at the start of the match. Dead dawg is the perfect example. Unless you spawn in the back and everyone has toolboxes to blow through those gens, your chances of winning are next to 0 once the drones are up.
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@I_CAME said:
It goes beyond solo players. Not even a good SWF can counter it if the killer knows what they're doing and has the right build. I've said this 30 times but not even Otz and his SWF of 10k hour players were able to counter a competent lockdown skull merchant. I think it's safe to say something is unfair if a team of 10k hour players are unable to counter it and the game drags out for 40+ minutes. It's a real problem and needs to be addressed quickly. Not three months from now. Find some other way to buff her and nuke her three gen potential. Otherwise you're just going to have people dcing in every single skull merchant game.
This. Had a SM pick dead dawg (I was solo). They did not engage in chases at all. Just put drones above the free 3 gen in the back added with cob overcharge etc, and there was nothing we could do. Even though we were solos, everyone stopped doing their gens once they realized what was happening. And the game became an unwinnable stalemate where survivors had to feed themselves to the killer just to get them interact. Painfully boring to say the least. It’s even worse on maps like meat plant with 2 floors. There really is no counter play that point other than having toolboxes and bnps to quickly bust through the last few gens.
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@MrPeanutbutter said:
my guess is that a lot of players are really not interested in playing a 45-minute slog-fest trying to crack a three gen. Repair, get hit, run to other side of map (because killer won’t chase outside of 3-gen), get healed, repeat. I’ve been in matches like this and they make me want to hit the “leave match” button
Exactly this. It isn’t a skill issue nor does it take skill for her to maintain the 3 gen. It’s very boring all the way around. After 20 minutes it’s like okay just kill us.
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@moondos said:
Got about 700+ hours on killer and recently thought I should probably give survivor a go, here's what I have discovered.
- It is SO much less stressful to play.
- Interactions with other survivors has made me laugh heaps.
- Doing your job as a survivor is easy and almost relaxing.
- Looping killers is not difficult. Wasting 40-60 seconds of the killer's time is a little too easy.
Overall I think I've had more enjoyment playing survivor. Probably because I'm not having to tryhard and control 4 other players, just the one.
Nothing really beats the rush of beating a 4v1 but survivor is actually pretty fun.
Any other Killer mains find this to be true for them?
I did the same thing and started playing survivor about 1.5 months ago. I found that in the early days, it was basically stress free and easy as a solo. But once I got up to the high mmr bracket (whatever that is), it generally sucks most games unless you have teammates that stick to gens relentlessly - and don't 3 gen. The amount of tunneling/camping with 3/4 slowdowns is ridiculous. COB, Overcharge, DMS, PR, Deadlock, Jolt + No Way Out + NOED etc, leads to the majority of games having 1 person tunneled out at 5 gens and the game falls apart from there and/or a 3 gen situation that takes 15-30 minutes to break.
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@skylustv said:
All killers should gain a 30% regression pop after hooking a survivor as basekit, this would incentivate killers to patrol gens and not stay camping.
Nothing close to this can be implemented until all gen perks are removed from the game. 9/10 games, killers already stack at least 3 slowdowns (and sometimes 4 even on the best killers like Nurse/Blight). Adding your suggestion would make most games nearly unwinnable for survivors.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3359345#Comment_3359345
The game has never been easier as Killer.
I’m sorry but this is nonsense every time someone says it. Killer and solo queue are difficult if the other side is playing optimally and you don’t have an op killer/build. The only easy mode in this game is a coordinated swf and/or Nurse/Blight/Spirit.
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I don’t know where the lie that the knight is weak came from. Unless you are extremely coordinated, most games will be lost to face camping and/or 3 gen. Even when you beat a knight, the game tends to be long and boring af.
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@th3syst3m said:
It's the devs fault.
It’s the devs fault that the player base plays unnecessarily sweaty? They could nerf every perk in the game and we would still find a way to suck the fun out.
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@BenOfMilam said:
Yeah basically. Everyone is sweating their asses off like there's a $20 Applebee's gift card on the line, but this is the single worst game you could possibly play sweaty in.
Playing to win in this game is miserable to say the least, coming from a former wannabe comp sweatlord. DbD is at it's best when you're just being silly with the other players.
This guy gets it
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@Audis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3352063#Comment_3352063
The scenario OP described can happen with 4 survivors alive as well, when the killer is ruthlessly defending a 3-gen.
This is a fundamental change that would fix the 3-gen problem, and the problem where survivors are just hiding on a big map. It probably just needs some tweaking because OP's numbers and the generator being able to be repaired twice sounds way too strong, which would make playing around this mechanic the most optimal way of playing the game. The suggestion posted to reddit yesterday had a pre-determined 8th generator in the basement or anywhere else on the map that would unlock after 12 minutes.
And then it would just become “hey the killer has a 3 gen, stall for 10 minutes”. I really don’t think there is a way to adjust this and still be fair for both sides. You would basically be taking another strategy away from the killer.
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@SkeletalElite said:
So, everyone has been in a situation as killer where the survivors are just hiding instead of trying to repair gens. Alternatively, a situation where a killer refuses to chase or down survivors unless they let him and instead just regresses a 3 gen endlessly.
What if to make this not possible. After an amount of time passes without any generators being repaired, (10 minutes?) A new mechanic will trigger.
2 things become available. An altar appears in the basement, the killer can interact with this to reveal the location of all survivors and reveal their auras for 30 seconds + killer instinct.
Additionally, the repaired generator which is the furthest away from all the other generators will become able to be repaired a second time.
When this mechanic triggers, all players in the match will hear a gong noise and receive a notification and brief aura reveal of the generator, which has been activated and can be repaired a second time. The killer will also see the aura of the altar in case they don't know where the basement is.
This would be disproportionately killer sided. Chances are, the scenario you are describing is when there are 2 survivors left with an unbreakable 3 gen (and after that long, the gens would have 0 progress). Taking 90 seconds to do a gen from start to finish, and with most of the maps' resources gone by this point, killers would basically be guaranteed a hook/kill - which they currently already have in this situation, it's just a matter of time.
The 3 gen problem would require a fundamental change to the game (which isn't going to happen).
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If a perk prevents you from being downed in a situation where a hit would ordinarily have downed you, it is a second chance perk.
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@bunnyfengenthusiast said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3318599#Comment_3318599
Slugging for 4k is a way to bypass a game mechanic (the hatch) by forcefully extending an unwinnable situation for the last survivor and essentially playing hide and seek with them for 4 minutes in the hopes of securing a meaningless 4k. It's pathetic, and boring to play against.
This is a direct response to not wanting to give a survivor the chance for a free escape. Hatch needs to go if you don’t want this to happen.
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Ask the devs to get rid of hatch. This would solve your issue over night.
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@Veinslay said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3314971#Comment_3314971
Awesome post, 100% correct. Your only reward for playing that way is getting teabagged in the exit gates and told gg ez. If you're gonna get BMed anyways, you might as well tunnel and camp since you'll win more often
Yep. There is no reward for playing nice. If you want to play nice, that’s fine. But I’m playing to win. I pay no mind to the survivor rulebook especially when they use a second chance mechanic aggressively.
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I feel like every time we see a thread about eruption, no one ever takes the time investment into consideration when talking about nerfing incapacitated numbers. The killer has to walk to a generator, kick it, find a survivor, hit them twice and time the down so that it happens while other survivors are still on that generator. All of that takes way longer than the incapacitated timer.
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Changes I would make to swfs: 1. No stacking perks or addons 2. Must select loadout before queuing 3. Show who was together in the post match screen
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I feel like every time we see a thread about eruption, no one ever takes the time investment into consideration when talking about nerfing incapacitated numbers. The killer has to walk to a generator, kick it, find a survivor, hit them twice and time the down so that it happens while other survivors are still on that generator. All of that takes way longer than the incapacitated timer.
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There is no such thing as competitive dbd. Think about all of the restrictions that are in place just to try and create a fake sense of balance in order to make it an enjoyable viewing experience. And with all of that, the majority of a matches in comp still boil down to camping, tunneling, 3 genning, NOED and no way out (the very things people complain about in regular dbd games). Now put these teams in public matches with no restrictions and all it does is reveal that this game is not intended to be played like that for the most part. It’s best to just let the game end in 4-5 minutes and move on to a reasonable and more fun match.
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No. We don't need buffs to second chance perks and we also don't need buffs to gen slow down and/or gen rush perks.
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As killer, COH just means I will almost certainly tunnel someone out at some point in the game (not necessarily at 5 gens tho). I refuse to allow free heals or for multi-injure pressure to just evaporate because of a boon.
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This is the result of survivors not getting an extra health like last year. A very welcomed change even if getting the reward is more difficult lol.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3294138#Comment_3294138
Camping killers lose matches if the survivors are smart, this is only the tactic of the desperate or the incompetent.
This 3 gen lock strategy is an unwinnable tactic that creates a situation where the match cannot progress and your only option is to give up or stubbornly wait out an hour before you auto lose anyway.
You still didn’t propose an actual solution. I’d love to hear a suggestion that doesn’t just swing the advantage to survivors.
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So what is the actual “solution” being proposed here? Nerfing perks or making 3 gens harder to defend will just change the target from camping gens back to camping you 😂.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3293962#Comment_3293962
It's far too good for how easy it is to use.
Seriously. I've been using and abusing it since it got changed. The perk can and will carry you HARD.
Perks are meant to carry you. If they weren’t, there would be a hardcore mode where neither side gets to bring perks. Or we can go in the other direction and just nerf into oblivion like ruin.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3293947#Comment_3293947
Okay so the perk is trash and we should rework it to make it better :)
Didn’t say the perk was trash. It’s fantastic. I’m just saying when people complain about it, they purposely leave out the set up required to make it work.
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/357988/eruption-and-deadlock
It amazes me that people think losing chase time or even straight up abandoning chases in order to do the necessary gen kick to activate a perk that then requires you to win ANOTHER chase and get a down is..
... "absolutely nothing".
Exactly. They forget how much time it takes to walk to and from a gen, and then to down a survivor before that gen gets completed. The time investment to make it work far exceeds the 25 second of incapacitated.
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@AbsoluteFury said:
I like to play games and experiment with a lot of different builds but most of the time I'm just wasting my time since the meta appears to be wait by the hook and hit the rescuer or the hooked for cheap hits. I don't want to use DS, etc all the time but I suppose I'll have to. Unfortunate.
The thing about the meta is that it cuts both ways. As killer, there’s no way to tell if you are going against a squad with a full meta build (gen rush, op healing, second chance perks etc) or a group of solos with meme builds. As such, if you want to win consistently, you have to assume every match is going to be a sweat fest. Both sides are playing to win. If you just want to use fun builds, then winning (or staying alive in the case of survivor mains) has to be secondary.
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@MrMori said:
Killer has 60% killrate now, it's a fine role. I'd like to see an FOV slider and Shadowborn basekit. It's honestly kinda sad that the FOV is still so low. The "last survivor FOV" is counted as "Accesibility" so come on, right? It's about time to improve this.
I'm also perfectly fine with the 45s self pickup. But new Unbreakable absolutely needs a nerf. I think it should be 80%, and disable upon any self recovery, even if you're under Exponential, Soul Guard, etc.
On a side note, can we please stop quoting that 60% kill rate without context. It does not automatically mean that killers are winning 60% of their games.
Example: 10 games played. 40 possible kills (4 survivors x 10 games). If the killer gets seven 2ks (14 kills) and three 4ks (12 kills), that is a 65% killrate (26/40).
Kill rate does not equal win rate.
/rant
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@kingcarl2012 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3259509#Comment_3259509
If they crawl to an unhookable corner they are really only wasting ther own time unless its the last survivor, in which case go close hatch and come back and see if they want to get hooked, if not let them wiggle out and have another chase before the game ends.
It’s a waste of everyone’s time. They wiggle out and then run right back to the same corner. Forcing me to bleed them out and/or wait out the EGC is annoying af and only happens because of this hook mechanic. It’s dumb.
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There’s no logical reason that this mechanic still exists. Killers have no control over hook RNG, nor do you really have control over where survivors run/get downed. Hooks can already be saboed, we don’t need the game to do this automatically. Especially considering that survivors will purposely crawl to corners which will force you waste everyone’s time to bled them out.
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- Primary reason I'm against this is because this would continue the trend of survivor hand holding and not needing situational awareness.
- Med kits are busted. Yes to this one.
- I'd prefer balanced maps rather than gen blocking.
- They can't make shattered hope basekit without touching Pentimento ( and i think pentimento is fine as is). They just need to make it so that snuffed boons can't rebooned and/or the next time it's booned, it takes much longer.
- No. These "make sure survivor doesn't die too quickly" type perks should not be basekit. Basekit BT is enough.
- Hell no. In the PTB, this was totally abusable and will be even worse if it hits the live server. Survivors can already heal themselves, get themselves off the hook (with perks and without perks), gain endurance/haste, pick themselves off the ground, hatch etc. Every second chance perk does not need to be basekit (unless you want killers to completely quit). There has to be risk for survivors. It cannot just be a safe hold m1 simulator with easy escapes.
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I really wish people would stop quoting the 60% kill rate as if it means anything lmao. If you 2k 7 games and 4k 3 games, you would have a 65% kill rate (26/40 possible kills in 10 games). Kill rate does not automatically equate to win rate. And here's the reality about 2ks. It generally feels terrible to have to work so hard and only end up scraping out 2 kills (especially if those kills come in the form of camping to confirm a kill in EGC).