Rydog
Rydog
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@About8Genjis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/718904#Comment_718904
Not entirely different, but some new things that get set longer than a week. The Demogorgon for instance. I really want to play against him, because of his desgin and power, but I can' really do that, mainly because vs against Spirit, Nurse, etc. and almost no one plays Demogorgon.
I also do not want to say that it is the Developers fault. The Developers make great new content, but it feels like that the players want to just dominate everyone in game and it doesn't feel fun playing against the same competitive survivor perks/killers as I love variety in this game.
I agree that the game needs some balance changes to introduce more character diversity across all ranks.
I also think the ranking system needs to be entirely redesigned, with rank-based seasonal rewards in place.
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The game is the game. Did you want it to feel like an entirely different game? They make other games for that.
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@xEa said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/91023/ill-say-it-now-and-ill-say-it-again
I am wonderwing why there are always some people who dont want to put effort into things. Yea it is a game, and yes it involves grinding, but i tell you something: Once you have what you desire, it becomes standard and extremly boring within a very short ammount of time. The route it he goal! Enjoy the grind, dont see it as an obstacle. You will have what you want soon enough, even with low effort.
I am playing this game on my main for now 900 hours. Started this year.
I got:
- Every single Teachable perk
- 2 Survivors who have every single perk on 3
- Every Killer Perk
- Every Killer has 3-5 Pages full of perks. Got on 14 out of 17 Killers the in my opinon best available build
- Items Addons & Offerings for thousends of games
If i calculate right, i have every Killer maxed out in less then 5 months, even tho it is completly unneccessary. Playing both killer and Survivor.
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So what you want is that you grind even faster, am i right?
We already got this change, that we get 4 Perks per Bloodweb, and you can even go for 2 Perks at every single Web. We get stuff EXTREMLY quickly at this point!!!
As someone mentioned before, use BBQ and We gonna live forever, and you have your stuff in no time. And again, Enjoy the Grind!
I had more fun grinding for my stuff then actually "owning" it.
This sounds like you were hyper-efficient with your BP, because I have about 800-ish hours of play with the milestones that I described earlier in this thread. I would speculate that your experience is not the norm.
I am also not saying that I expect something for free; what I'm saying is that the grind is PARTICULARLY oppressive for a video game. I am assuming, like myself, that every single person here:
* Is a functional adult with a job, relationships, and limited free time.
* Has other games they enjoy playing, and/or other hobbies that compete for their free time.
* Values activities that respect and reward their input of time and effort, due to the first two points.
This game -- all games -- should be designed with those points in mind. DBD is designed in such a way that you can dedicate an entire year to it and not even be able to have every perk on multiple killers. That is really predatory design.
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@ReviloDBD said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/91023/ill-say-it-now-and-ill-say-it-again
I'll admit, the "Perk" Grind is probably the biggest "Turn - OFF" for both me and all of my friends from this game, It has prevented 4 of my other friends from even trying to ever play even though they purchased the game, I'm the only one crazy enough to have stuck around to unlock what I needed.
This kind of logic is exactly what's wrong with the grind. You have to commit to a giant uphill battle to get to the actual fun.
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@Dicklaycia said:
I wonder if it would be better for the Bloodpoint economy if they just scrapped perk tiers at the moment. We simply have too many perks to unlock in addition to having to max them out to get the full benefits, and that’s not counting prestiging and having to start the grind all over again. Maybe that will help lessen the grind?
It would, but @Peanits always has some flimsy excuse for why they can't do that, because players would run out of perks in their Bloodwebs or whatever. I say that excuse is an indictment of the whole perk system, and it should be THE top code red emergency priority to rework the perk system completely. How anyone over there thinks it's fine as-is is beyond me.
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@Xboned said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/717415#Comment_717415
My worst fear is that they've already done the numbers on this and determined that they make more money from people who drop in, buy a character or two, then give up after a week than they do from long term players who stick around.
A lot of F2P MMOs jumped onto this model a few years back once they realize it was cheaper and more profitable to keep cycling in new players who buy some crap and then quit than it is to design content for hardcore fans. Same goes for the bulk of the mobile gaming market.
I love this game so much that it almost feels like slander to suggest it, but I have a hard time understanding why the grind is as insane as it is otherwise.
Yeah, they need to prioritize their players' long-term happiness over squeezing blood from stones.
I also love this game but the grind is unreal.
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@Xboned said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/717409#Comment_717409
Oh yeah, good times. One of the first things I did here was make a thread on this very subject because it was driving me so crazy. I want to play this game all the time, but every time I'm stopped by experiences like this:
"Hmm... games have been going well, but Ruin's getting cleansed a little too quickly. After doing some research, it seems like PGTW works better for me at high levels of play. So I'll just... uh. Get Clown from level 1 to... 40? FFS."
Obviously, I'm still here because I really do love playing this game, but... that's just it. I love playing this game, not poring over spreadsheets for optimal BP efficiency. Not wasting days of my life and millions of BP just so I can change a single perk.
Excuse me, so I can get a chance at changing at a single perk.
I'm in the same boat as you. I've been playing since November 2018, and have accomplished the following:
- 37 of 57 survivor teachables unlocked. All available perks stacked on a single, non-prestiged survivor.
- 47 of 51 killer teachables unlocked. All available perks stacked on a single, non-prestiged killer (Spirit).
- Currently using the double BP weekend to make headway toward stacking all killer perks on a second killer (Freddy) with plans for a third (Hillbilly), so I can actually branch out and play more than one killer effectively. The Freddy task alone will cost an estimated 3.5 million BP.
That's ALL I've got to show from nearly A FULL. YEAR. Of playing.
Taking a single character from level 1 to 40 (all teachables unlocked) takes approximately 1.1 million BP if you manage Bloodwebs efficiently. Unlocking all teachables in this manner, disregarding the Shrine of Secrets, currently takes almost 40 million BP. And that's just too get them UNLOCKED.
I'm so far averaging 85,000 BP per match during the double BP weekend, based on an even mix of survivor/killer matches. At WORST, this should be the norm.
I dunno how Behaviour is not deeply ashamed of the grind's current state. "Well, our players put up with it" is not a rationale.
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The only time I bring a Mori is for the daily, and I always apologize after. :P
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I really want to see the player churn numbers for the Switch version. God I bet a lot of players drop this game fast when they see the grind that they're in for.
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@Xboned said:
Newbie: Cool game, how do I get better?
Me: Here's a bunch of guides and videos, also you need to buy Leatherface
Newbie: I don't want to play Leatherface
Me: Yeah well, if you don't buy him and grind him up all your other grinding will take literally twice as long
Newbie: Okay but I just really want to play this one killer right now
Me: Oh right, in order to get good with them you're going to need to unlock perks from all these other killers too
Newbie: But you just said to get Leatherf--
Me: I mean AFTER you get Leatherface up to 35, you can work on these other killers
Newbie: But--
Me: See, you have to grind Leatherface so it's easier to grind other killers so you can play your main well
Newbie:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/615/7Z0IHUI5NKEY.png
PS: This is before considering the fact that unlocking a teachable perk doesn't automatically grant it. You have to grind a killer to 30+ just to unlock a chance of it appearing in the bloodweb of other killers. Then you have to repeat that two more times to max out its rank.
You could do all the teachable grinding necessary and still not have what you need at level 50 due to RNG. We're talking about wasting literal millions of blood points just to customize or optimize your build.
This. Xboned, I feel like we've crossed paths here before, criticizing the awful grind. Good to see you. :D
This is one of the most wantonly, unapologetic games ever created when it comes to the developer disrespecting players' time with unfriendly and oppressive grind mechanics. I shouldn't have to put 200 hours into the game to play the character that I want at a reasonably competent level.
Just detach perks from the Bloodweb system, put them in a shop where you can purchase a la carte with BP, and ideally condense them into single-rank perks. Also, make teachables unlock at levels 15/20/25 or something.
Or, I dunno, roll that "four perks on every web" change out across ALL character levels.
Swear to god, I dunno why Behaviour clings to this awful grind like a security blanket. Prioritize your players' fun and happiness and early learning experiences over your wrongheaded perceptions about these miserable player retention practices
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I think the current emblem system has a lot of problems and needs a complete overhaul, with an eye toward having it make sense without requiring players to do research outside the game.
As-is, I do really wish the pip requirements and thresholds were simply flat and consistent all the way from ranks 1-20. I really think this could at least be a band-aid for the current issues. It's stupid that, say, I can survive and not pip.
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I wish @Peanits would chime in to flimsily justify the horrendous oppressive grind again, and tell us why they couldn't just make this sort of player-friendly change.
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It's going great for me! I've averaged 80,000 BP per match across 10 matches (6 survivor/4 killer), for a nice 803k total tonight. Seems like it might be pretty reasonable for me to pull in a million BP per day for the event. This weekend's goal: get my Freddy all topped up with every killer perk I own.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/716018#Comment_716018
If it's just player perception, there's nothing the devs could do anyway. The perk is a placebo effect most of the time. How many skill checks pop up b4 it's broken as opposed to the guarantee effect of corrupt intervention FOR EXAMPLE. Players use it for a FEELING of being in a better position. When they go without it while feeling like they need it... They get the same effect as taking away placebo pills from a sick person. They do worse.
I get what you're saying. I'm looking at it from a standpoint of "You have four perk slots to equip stuff in." But if two of those perks are perceived as being mandatory, and lots of players only ever experiment with two of those slots while feeling like their hands are otherwise tied, things get stale. So, how does that get solved -- even if we're talking about a placebo effect?
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Wat
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/715723#Comment_715723
What is mandatory about seeing auras upon hook exactly, is it really that difficult to have map awareness?
I'm not trying to argue the merits of specific perk mechanics. The point I'm trying to make is that those two perks show up in what I suspect is the overwhelming majority of matches.
That being the case, they're "mandatory" in terms of player perception, and Behaviour ought to figure out how to address this problem in a way that doesn't leave players feeling that they're must-pick perks for every build.
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When something is as ubiquitous as Ruin or BBQ, it really ought to be looked at as something to be rolled into the base kit, because we've reached the point where those aren't actually choices, they're borderline mandatory. At least, that's how some game developers might approach it.
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No matter how you do it, a fifth perk slot would, broadly, be a massive survivor buff, faaaaaaaaaar more than it would benefit killers. You're looking at four extra perks per match, to the killer's one addition.
Instead, I think there should be more "baseline features" in each role's kit instead of restricting them to perks. Stuff like Whispers, the aura aspect of Kindred, and the BP incentives of BBQ and WGLF.
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@Peanits said:
That's simple. Because it's asymmetrical, and most people tend to play one side or the other, not both. It's easy for it to feel like "us vs. them".
Hang on, this is an interesting claim that I have always been curious about. DO most people, based on your data, mostly stick to one role or the other? I play a mix of both survivor and killer, and I don't consider either one my "main." I have always assumed that most players are the same way, and that survivor or killer mains are outliers.
Am I wrong here?
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/715437#Comment_715437
I didn't think Stridor was useful because I never had the hardest time getting the phases down... And Iron Will never really bothered me either.
I am in the same boat as you. I also feel like getting used to using/relying on Stridor would broadly turn it into an AWFUL crutch to rely on when playing killer.
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It's so weird to me that killer players bring out moris during these events. I ALWAYS run party streamers or pudding as killer, I've been stocking up!
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@FireHazard said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/715414#Comment_715414
Wait... Spirits use Stridor?
Damn... maybe that would've helped during the start when I was P3-50ing her.
It's not entirely unusual for me to see a Spirit player running Stridor (I run Iron Will 100% of the time, so it always stands out when someone brings Stridor).
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Are you sure they aren't using Stridor? If you bring Iron Will and still hear your own pained cries when injured, it's a dead giveaway that the killer is running Stridor. I don't run it with Spirit, but I've seen a lot of killer players who do.
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I promise that if I run into you, I will absolutely not farm, and kill you without hesitation. (Generally, the only time I indicate that I'm open to farming is if multiple survivors disconnect, I feel really bad for their teammates when that happens.)
I've earned 206,000 BP from just two killer games so far today. It's been good!
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I tried out Fixated a few times, and I found it to be pretty underwhelming.
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@Forceful_Spork said:
It's not just used for camping. It can also be used to defend nearly repaired generators after damaging them.
Wat
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Yep, classic Gordon. Everybody's favorite survivor.
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Time to get Freddy topped up with all my unlocked killer perks. Only ~55 bloodwebs to go!
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Self-Care has definitely really fallen down the usefulness tier list for me and many others. Bond is a way better healing perk, and more recently I've gotten some fantastic results with Inner Strength as well.
The problem with Self-Care is, short of a redesign, what do you do with it that doesn't make it way too dominant? All that could really be done is to make it work faster, which would just flatly make it better than the other healing options out there.
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ITT: People complaining that Freddy's snares have no counterplay except for waking up.
That's the idea. It's the whole concept of how the character's power is designed to work. His power is totally disabled when you're awake.
I mean, come on, people.
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@UkilledLegion said:
If people like to play SWF with voice ok lets they do it but without rank and bloodpoints.If people wanna get rank and BP all players in match will play solo.Ur thought about it?
How would you propose that they implement and enforce this, hypothetically?
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@TheGorgon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/713429#Comment_713429
Demogorgon, Billy, Spirit. A and S tier killers and I cannot perform.
Try to feather Hillbilly's chainsaw as you approach pallets, so you can chop them quickly. I've even had standoffs with survivors who I have baited into waiting to drop the pallet, and I've run straight through and mowed them down. Also, do NOT try to saw survivors from a distance, get RIGHT UP BEHIND THEM and run the saw.
Spirit relies a lot on predicting survivor behavior. Try to cut off the critical path through a pallet, meet them on the other side of a window, pull people off generators, or listen for pain grunts and corner them. You have to learn to rely on audio cues and follow scratch marks. A good Spirit can seem omnipotent, but if you're not careful you can end up making big mistakes and mindgaming yourself.
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Wat
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Take the corners as sharply as possible, and break pallets on the side that forces the survivor to double back the way they came. What killers do you play?
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@Sauceman_Tim said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/713366#Comment_713366
I agree with you. Especially where you state killers don't really have the tools to beat the clock against great survivors. I just think there has to be a solution to not make killers OP for newbies but also make it more difficult for rank 1 survivors
This is a genre problem -- killers seem unbeatable when you are new, and pathetic once you understand how everything fits together. I remember this being the arc in Friday the 13th, where you got killed within the first minute when you were new, but it was almost impossible for Jason to win against survivors who understood the game mechanics.
DBD strikes a better balance, but this is not an easy thing to solve.
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@Sauceman_Tim said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/713364#Comment_713364
The argument is in the title the source of from the website. If you think survivors aren't favoured. Please be my guest to argue.
To be fair, you made no argument, you just stated the conclusion and said LET'S ALL FIGHT. I made your argument for you.
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@Sauceman_Tim said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/713331#Comment_713331
They come from a website that tracks survivors and killers on a leaderboard I assumed you would know about it. And yes I want you to argue your point of you think it's any different
Heh sorry, I just find it to be a "getting off on the wrong foot" subject format.
I do broadly agree that the game swings in the survivors' favor when we are talking about very optimal loadouts and high-rank matches. With a few exceptions (Nurse, Spirit, Hillbilly), killers do not have the mobility for wide map coverage or quick chases to handle everything in the whack-a-mole game that they are playing. The clock is against the killer at all times, and most killers don't have strong tools to beat the clock if the survivors know what they're doing.
But there's also not a single consistent definition for a win or a loss. Some survivors will almost inevitably die to a strong killer, some others will survive. So who "wins" in those cases?
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I don't even understand what those screenshots are implying or where they come from, but "change my mind" topics are always just code for "I want to argue."
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I would say it's a good change. If you are a new player, and you choose to queue with higher rank players, you accept the risk of having a better killer. I daresay you probably learn faster too, if you're in a full SWF with high rank friends who can teach you good habits.
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How about any existing one, but just increase the BP gains? BP gains really need to be increased all around with no strings attached, because the game does not award enough BP for the ridiculous grind that currently exists.
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The penalty is that they don't work if you're awake.
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Wat
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@Jago said:
Any killer that claims this change is good is delusional.
This guy in the OP just wants to play with friends.
Guess you gonna have to find another game or create another account buddy !
Once again: How else would you have it? Should a bunch of high-rank players get matched vs. a low-rank killer because they grouped with their newbie friend? It's less fair to the killer, because he has no choice in the matter, and I suspect a low-rank killer rather not be bullied by a high-rank survivor group that is way out of his league.
The survivors effectively control the matchmaking, and this change ensures that they can predict -- based on whoever has the highest rank -- what the killer's ballpark rank is. The lower-rank player is making a conscious decision to accept this challenge because he is queuing with his high-rank friends. The burden should be on the group with the power to choose, which in this case is the survivors.
The only other equitable solution I can think of is a SWF rank range restriction (i.e. you can only group with players +/- some degree adjacent to your own rank), and that would make everyone even angrier. What would you do to solve this problem, while also not forcing someone with no choice to put up with being bullied by a group way out of their range?
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@newavitar said:
Look at the picture. A SWF joins the lobby and I assumed that, since they fixed the issue of rank 1s in my rank 5 lobby, I'd be ok to not dodge.
Nope. Two red ranks, a green, and a yellow. Guess which two got out
The only outlier in that image is the rank 12. Are you really implying that a three-rank difference is not acceptable?
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@Nazeef13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/710684#Comment_710684
Actually I'd say it is the opposite. Killers know what ranks they are going up against and can que-Dodge without ban if they don't want to go up against a wide rank gap lobby
Survivors have no clue what rank the killer be, even if they can make an educated guess.
How in the world would a killer know what rank everyone is? That information is not shown to them in the lobby.
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@sluc16 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/707608#Comment_707608
Ridiculously argument. No cleansing? Sure I'll just star broken and sick the whole game.
No one ever cleanses when you start getting beyond green ranks, so yes, this is legitimate good advice.
More broadly: Learning to be comfortable with playing while injured is important. Healing is not always the right move.
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I would absolutely never, ever prestige any character, killer or survivor, under the current system. The perk grind is already oppressive without that, and it's not worth some cosmetic stuff to push the reset button three times.
If everything except perks disappeared, and if there were some permanent BP multiplier for a prestiged character, I would absolutely consider it. As-is, it's a false choice that does nothing except waste substantial time and energy.
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No. If it went the other way, it would be super unfair for the newbie killer to get stomped -- and unlike the present situation, they would have no control over it. As-is, you're making a conscious choice to queue with better players, and therefore you accept the risk. This is working as it should.
My suggestion for new players who want to queue with experienced friends is this: queue as a group of four, so that you're the only newbie. You'll get a much better learning experience that way, because you'll be with multiple people who can teach you good habits -- and you'll be out of the newbie ranks faster.
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@Ihatelife said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/709308#Comment_709308
Heeey, that's a similiar situation for me when i'm on high ranks :D
I don't mean "playing sub-optimally." I mean this in an absolute, literal sense, with no hyperbole. Low-rank survivors often do not make any appreciable progress on any objective, whether it is gens, hook saves, or totems, no matter what else is going on or what the killer is doing.
Playing at rank ~16 is this game's equivalent of an "ELO hell," and I don't know why anyone -- especially someone with as many in-game hours as the OP is claiming -- would willingly do that to themselves.
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@Kasaki said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/709572#Comment_709572
Not sure what that is lol I have a PC but I don't get into all the game files and such or try to alter anything I just play it the way it comes so forgive me if it's something small and I'm misunderstanding , I just don't want to try something that will get me permanent banned
An ini file is just a config file, where various game settings are stored (graphics quality, mouse sensitivity, that kind of thing). It is human-readable and editable, and no reasonable developer would ever try to ban a user over editing such a file, since there's no way to cheat here. In fact, the only reasn this particular ini file (WindowsNoEditor) ever comes up is because you can manually tweak certain settings -- such as frame rate and anti-aliasing -- that really ought to be shown to the player in the game's actual config menu, but aren't for whatever reason.
EAC triggers, and any kind of disciplinary action on Behaviour's part, would hinge on altering critical game files in order to gain an advantage. This is way different than just editing a config file.