Rulebreaker
Rulebreaker
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At this point your only digging yourself deeper. Our only advice is to stop digging and take a break.
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@kingcarl2012 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3300247#Comment_3300247
The Haste effect is only for the unhooked survivor because even though nobody uses it guardian gives an extra 8% and 4.7 m/s is pretty solid especially when you also consider the speed boost from tanking the endurance hit.
The show aura would effectively be base kit floods on every hook and we feel it would be Abit much. But that's our opinion so it's whatever.Keep in mind the unhooked survivor is getting Basekit BT, Guardian, mini OTR, mini distortion, mini Quick and quiet
You may be right about the power level, but that may also have to do with thinking the haste applied to the killer, but in terms of a carrot you need something and I think buffing anything other than info would be more imbalanced and not really fit the concept of chasing someone other than the unhooked person.
The 3 best options I could think of were
Basekit BBQ, and change the perk to double duration. The Issue I see here is getting the info at the time of hooking is a double edged sword especially when playing a slower killer because the info at that point may lead to the killer leaving for a chase or may lead to a camp if everyone is far away, or more proxy camping with survivors in close range/running distortion. Plus it does nothing if the killer is at the hook when the unhook happens, which is when tunneling happens
The only difference in the other two options was with aura reading vs Killer Instict after the unhook. You could flip it so the killer gets killer instinct on everone, and aura reading on the unhooker, but since killer instict only gives direction with no sense of distance, it really limits the options of using the information. With the aura reading the killer may even use that info to pressure a gen instead of chasing either person at the hook.
You could also make it only apply to the Unhooker but I felt that might just lead to more camping because the only info you get is useful if you stay near the hook.
I felt that the option of aura read on all but the unhooked gave the killer a decent chunk of info that can be used in several ways that arent tunneling, and the killer instinct on the unhooker gives a baseline of info that cant be countered if a whole team is running distortion and they get nothing on the aura reading.
Think we read the haste was for killer so our bad on that. We're fine with that idea as is long as the numbers were tweeked.
We'd rather just have the info on the unhooker as in the past we have gone mostly to the save tip toeing around the killer only to have a drive by save happen. Maybe selfish of us but we'd rather not get revealed at critical moments. (yes floods does it anyway but only for specific hooks we can keep track of).
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While we agree with the sentiments, may want to take a break on that one. 7/8 survivors will do everything in their power to make sure you don't get it.
If you're determined, go with perks like trail of torment. Survivors won't know when to run till your on them or will just sit in lockers until you make them "wiggle free" in a locker free zone (recommend iron grasp for this)
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@Blink0925 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3300220#Comment_3300220
Oh ok cool, so the killer coming to me at the beginning of the match and only chasing me and tunneling and camping me makes me the weakest link? How are they gonna know if they dont chase anyone else except me? And I am fully aware of turning the game into a 3v1. Im a killer main, and I play killer for a team. I dont understand how me expressing frustration that killers who read my bio, and then go out of their way to kill me to make sure that I dont get progress towards my achievement makes me entitled. At no point did I ever say, they had to absolutely let me live. Never did I say that. All that I said is that it would be nice if they let me live. But you know what they did instead. The tunneled me out. They camp me out. Its not they arent letting me live. Its not that at all. Its that they go out of their way to make sure I dont get any progress. But cool, nice to know expressing my feelings and frustrations are entitlement.
We're aware that it's a #### move to read your bio and target you. But look at it from an outsider reading this post.
You set your name so that they read your bio, there by painting a target on your intentions and when #### players target you for whatever reason your venting here (here of all places) and saying we're all "unkind" for them, those specific ones, doing so.
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@kingcarl2012 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3300072#Comment_3300072
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3300068#Comment_3300068
This was my suggestion with one small edit added that is lost in the early part of the thread.
A much more fair and balanced way to try and reduce tunnelling is to simply add more defensiveness to the basekit borrowed time.First off double the haste to 20% that gives you 0.2 m/s faster than a 4.6 killer that can be used to loop/get away.(Edit: After some further thought on this, the haste effect should scale with the number of gens left in the match.)5 gens 20% 4.8 m/s
4 gens 18% 4.72 m/s
3 gens 16% 4.67 m/s
2 gens 14% 4.57 m/s
1 gen 12% 4.48 m/s
0 gens 10% 4.4 m/s
This change gears it more towards tunneling in the early game.
Second for those 10 seconds, block aura reading of unhooked survivor, no blood or scratch marks, quick and quiet with no cooldown, 100% reduction in pain sounds and breathing. This litany of defensive boosts eliminates all but visual tracking of the unhooked survivors giving tons of options for breaking line of sight and losing the killer.Third and finally the killer gains killer instinct on the unhooking survivor and have all but the unhooked survivors aura shown for 5 seconds, incentivizing the unhooker and any other survivor as a target especially with the difficulty of tracking the unhooked survivor.I think this fits both the carrot and stick idea and wouldnt really be abuseable offensively in any real way like DS was.
First we want to apologize as we did forget about your idea (lost in the sea of words)
Second we feel the haste probably should have a flat rate that's relatively low. While it would incentivize going away, it would also make snowballing alot easier for the killers that don't need it (would be awesome to ZOOM as blight with that though).
The show aura would effectively be base kit floods on every hook and we feel it would be Abit much. But that's our opinion so it's whatever.
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3300122#Comment_3300122
The problems is that that 'effect' is literally the Killer's win condition.
Survivors are complaining that the Killer's attempts to win should backseat to their 100% subjective and vague 'fun'. And it's been like this for more than 5 years:
- Tunneling? Unfun; fix it for 'the health of the game'.
- Slugging? Unfun; fix it for 'the health of the game'.
- Camping? Unfun; fix it for 'the health of the game'.
If Survivors had their way; Killers would never be able to win, because losing is 'unfun'.
As it is; I can't play a single match without Survivors putting me on blast for 'crutch perks' or 'tryhard tactics' because they genuinely believe their fun is more important than mine or my ability to try to win, and so they believe I was 'toxic first' just for winning in a way they don't approve of.
Survivors need to get it through their heads that BOTH SIDES are human beings. And if Survivors are not required to stop doing gens just because the Killer has 0 hooks/kills, then Killers are not required to stop going after the weakest link just because Survivors don't like being knocked out of the game.
I'm honestly sick of the double standard. If I kill to fast? Insults. Threats. I'm a 'tryhard'. This includes if I don't give hatch. Yes; I'm evil if I don't let someone go, because Survivors are so entitled that they believe they deserve a free escape for no reason other than 'Because I'm Survivor'.
But if Killers talk about genrush (To use the phrase. Real genrushing does not exist. It's just Survivors playing well), or not having any hooks or kills as 3 gens pop? 'Lol, noob KIller' 'git gud' and 'It's not our responsibility to give you kills'.
So how come it's the Killer's responsibility to make sure Survivors have fun, up to and including giving free hatch, but Survivors are not responsible for Killers having fun? 🤔
How come people think 'Take player agency away from Killers' or 'Add a mechanic Survivors can abuse' is valid for 'Survivor fun'? Can we demand Survivors be forced to fail skillchecks if they hit too many in a row? I mean, if Killers should be punished for 'tunneling' their objective (kills), then Survivors should be punished for 'tunneling' their objective (gens). Fair is fair.
Your going for generals when it's the specifics that matter.
Tunnel at the start and not letting up no matter what vs targeting that one when other appealing options are available (example of us in the doorway at lery's, hit us we're just as injured and you've already wasted time just trying to pass us)
Camping at endgame vs camping the first hook while 3+ gens need done. Pretty pointless and is unfun and won't get a "meaningful" victory (aka actually playing) and often won't get any victory except spiteful ones.
Slugging cause there's flashlights in the open vs hunting and slugging everyone for spite. One reasonable, one is just being a ####.
As for the things said at end game, ignore it. People do as people will (hence why we are still futiley trying to get a point across and may be deviating now that we're thinking about it) expecting anything is pointless. (Apologies if this is offensive but it sounds like your sick of the toxic community more than the topic)
No one is responsible for fun except the devs. Your free to keep being "efficient" but understand that it gonna cause what we said above, just as a toxic community will deter killers from playing. Playing well isn't bad but playing and ruining people's fun (which, on a game ment to be fun) is probably a no no.
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3300102#Comment_3300102
I see both sides, unlike people who's suggestions are 'Make the game FORCE the Killer to play badly' or 'Add something Survivors can abuse'.
Once more, I will ask: Why is it OK for Survivors to play optimally, but Killers playing optimally is a cardinal sin?
It's a double standard. Survivors are allowed to tryhard, but Killers tryharding is evil and 'unfun'.
First playing "optimally" was never a sin, the effect it causes is.
Second when survivors kept try being try hards things did change. No more instant repair parts, no instant heals, true infinite loops gone (admittedly this might be for overall health but..). Unfun things changed. Just because it's back to the killers turn doesn't mean it's always at killer. At best it's just the most vocal.
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3300096#Comment_3300096
Lets put it this way. If efficient causes unfun for survivors, there's less prey. If there's less prey, then killers will either have to switch to survivor or have no prey. If they switch and become fed up with unfun efficient play, they bail and the cycle repeats until death of game. If there's no prey we assume you know what happens.Let's put it this way; You start controlling how a Killer can win based on something subjective like 'fun', then there will be less Killers. If there's less Killers, then Survivors will either have to switch to Killer or have no matches. If they switch and become fed up with unfun, inefficient play, they bail and the cycle repeats until the death of the game. If there's no Killers, we assume you know what happens.
Works both ways. If Killers start losing because the game literally forces them to spread out kills while Survivors can genrush like cheetahs on crack, thereby preventing there from being ENOUGH TIME to 3-hook everyone (which, BTW, against a skilled Survivor team; It's literally impossible to 3 hook everyone & still get more than 1 or 2 kills), then they will stop playing because there's NO POINT in playing a game where they can't play their hardest, and then EDC is filled with insults because they lost.
Yet which one is currently more prevalent? We have seen a total of 1 swat gen rush vs 1/2 the killers we've faced tunneling a poor fool despite trying to take agro (can't take agro better than literally standing in a doorway at lery's). In addition, you literally need a whole build on multiple survivors too gen rush while as killer to tunnel...you follow a single person till they die. No real necessary parts except being better than that specific survivor.
Both need addressed but you seem dead set on not seeing the survivor side.
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3300052#Comment_3300052
In the same stroke, BHVR could do something to punish tunneling, like if you tunnel someone and try to hook them within 45s of them getting off the hook there is a 33% chance that The Entity itself sabotages a hook. Not totally invalidating it, but enough to make going for someone else the correct choice.- And...SWFs would start bringing the same cosmetics in order to get free Sabos.
- And what happens if the Killer just happens to find the same Survivor? It happens to me ALLOT; I don't tunnel, but sometimes a Survivor just has bad luck. Should I be punished, again, for trying to win, just because I found the same guy?
Once again; Why should Killers be punished AT ALL for trying to win just because Survivors have this deep-seated need to control HOW Killers win?
I'll put it another way:
If Survivors are not punished for playing gens effectively; Why should Killers be punished for killing effectively?
You can't demand one side get a middle finger to their gameplay just because some people don't understand that, in a PvP game, one side winning means the other side loses.
All 'Punish camping' boils down to is 'Punish Killers for playing too well because Survivor fun is more important.'
Lets put it this way. If efficient causes unfun for survivors, there's less prey. If there's less prey, then killers will either have to switch to survivor or have no prey. If they switch and become fed up with unfun efficient play, they bail and the cycle repeats until death of game. If there's no prey we assume you know what happens.
True people should understand that it's a PvP game and can't dictate the other side, but some things NEED to be addressed for the sake of health and fun of the game.
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@TAG said:
Question that's always been on my mind: How does one make a killer that is strong, fun for both sides, and not heavily reliant on anti-loop?
There's plenty past threads for that mate. For us we say look at Wesker as sans a few map, he's pretty well balanced, but opinions vary greatly.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3300046#Comment_3300046
I do consistently well as Clown using minimal add-ons (usually yellow or brown ones) does that mean clown is top tier?
Your experience with the killer is valid but your statement about her being top tier is not. The general consensus is that she is below average and this has been shown to be true by people playing her without using the condemnation strategy
By healthy for her kit I mean gameplay that is fun and engaging for both sides. The condemnation strategy requires slugging with no hooks and camping said slugs just enough to keep pressure on one person who will inevitably die. It’s not fun gameplay and shouldn’t be encouraged if we want sadako buffed
We recommend going around the wall.
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We approve or at the very least they could remove the penalty for the purple bag. We don't use the purple add on that gives all traps cause often times we want to move them.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3300065#Comment_3300065
This is also a problem that a lot of the playerbase fail to gasp: if you do an unsafe unhooking, then you need to stay and take off the heat of the unhooked survivor. If you just vault away and disappear, well, then I only have one target, ie the poor sod you just unhooked. Thats not tunneling, thats "having only one option"
Tell that to everyone who calls us tunneler XD
But we corrected ourselves, we want a carrot stick for survivors as to get them to not be... stupid for lack of better terms.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3300065#Comment_3300065
I think most reasonable people will understand a killer having little option when someone unhooks in their TR then stealths away to leave the poor sod who just got unhooked to their fate.
But of course what we are seeing becoming very common is killers who will stay by the hook and go out of their way to target the person who just got off hook, even if there is an injured and viable target in the person who unhooked.
All that aside, I certainly don't want to see any solution that can be abused or used offensively as DS from 2 reworks back was
We get that and something does need to address that (hopefully without being abused)
What I think we were trying to say is that there needs to also be a "carrot" (second me wants a "stick") for survivors to not put each other in these kinds of situations.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298330#Comment_3298330
Give killers a basekit mini BBQ that shows one survivor AND give them a speedboost as long as they move in the general direction of that survivor and aren't in any chase. The beauty of the old BBQ was that everyone had it equipped for the BP bonus and, as if by accident, the main portion of its effect showed killers all kinds of opportunities and thus peeled them away from the hook.
The speed boost would be needed to sweeten the deal of chasing after some survivor, and to give non-mobility M1 killers an opportunity to do so without shooting themselves in the foot.
In the same stroke, BHVR could do something to punish tunneling, like if you tunnel someone and try to hook them within 45s of them getting off the hook there is a 33% chance that The Entity itself sabotages a hook. Not totally invalidating it, but enough to make going for someone else the correct choice.
Of the carrot and the whip, the first one is the more effective one, and people will react much more favorable to it, while the whip will often make them stubbornly stay in their old ways, just to "stick it to them!".
While we would like something like this, we might want to add something that encourages safer saves or at least take agro for the unhooked. Most times when we tunnel, it's due to unhooking in my tr (or line of sight) then leaving them to our lack of mercy. True we CAN go for the unhooker who ran to super safe zone, but we want the easy prey who ran to the dead zone injured.
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@Stabby_Widdershins said:
I...made an entire post, then edited it to fix some typos, and it disappeared?
We believe it's due to disrespect
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@Edilibs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3300037#Comment_3300037
You "dont" need the condemned strategy to be effective or optimal with her because i win with her using a variety of combinations! The killer is nonsense period! What do you mean not healthy for her kit?
People like me dont care about how we win we just do what it takes to win so your comment in this regard is directed for casuals, im not casual im highly competitive! You can down play or make excuses and justify things all you want it doesnt change anything, Sadako is top tier, end of story!
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3300038#Comment_3300038
Yeah she is one of the strongest killers in the game and not weak at all! Here we go....lol What you say is very stupid and makes no sense because "no" killer should do well outside Nurse based on your logic! It makes absolutely no sense! People are mostly bad at dbd so your so called point is unwarranted and meritless!
Therefore you are not only wrong but you are incorrect as well! What you say is false!
Well competitive survivor, we look forward to videos of your slaughter of swat squads. Please show everyone here.
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As survivor, it's a last act of begging for mercy from us. Rarely works but never know less you try.
As killer, if they boop us when on death hook we might give them a chance by leaving them injured (or slugged depending on gen count).
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@Goodgirlkara said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3299794#Comment_3299794
i regret nothing.....and everything at the same time. all in all, not the craziest challenge for gaming I have ever done and look forward to trying to beat it on the next tome. though the next tome I will be logging my hours and time played, alongside recording everything to make a fun video.
We recommend a Mori collage as they make... interesting art ^/^
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Not sure whether to applaud you or worry for you but glad to see you got what you wanted
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@Blink0925 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3299449#Comment_3299449
And so Im just not suppossed to have feelings about it? Im just not supposed to be frustrated? I know that people do it to make people angry, doesnt mean I gotta be happy about it.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3299452#Comment_3299452
Never once did I say they had to play a certain way. And never once did I do anything to make me entitled. I am simply expressing my frustration that I have given them a heads up of what I am trying to achieve, and the fact that they have seen it, decided to deliberately be a jerk and that makes me entitled? Show me where in the post I said the words "they have to play the way I want them to" Never did I say that. It is the fact that they are deliberately going out of their way to be a jerk to me. Thats some entitlement.
While true, what my brother is (callously) trying to point out is your not doing yourself any favors painting a target on your back. You have every right to be upset about being tunneled especially if your targeted, but when you paint a target like that for the ones who wana make you angry...you lose some sympathies.
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@BlueHorkew said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/358490/eruption-isnt-a-problem
What something else, you cant do anything besides moving around. The perk is problematic and after all the controversy and public discussions from even big content creators i dont see a world where either the perk gets absolutely gutted or they introduce a new perk to counter it
To be fair, you can still unhook which is what should be happening.
We see both happening at this rate. It's gonna be gutted the same time as a counter comes out. It'll be like pentimento and boons again ~
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Should? Probably not, but at the end of the day, it doesn't harm too much (off hand all we can think of is wraith and t2 wall hack Myers)
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@faithfulknight said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3299179#Comment_3299179
So almost all of his addons are bad?
They run from boring but practical, to bad, to gimmicky.
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@kaneyboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3299367#Comment_3299367
many mind games in looping, shacks and loops where you cant always see the killer. do you even play XD
We specifically asked you a question and yet to hear an answer. For the sake of clarity: What mind game is there running around a truck.
If you want we'll add: What mind game is there running around a truck you both can see over and see each other.
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We wish you luck mate don't burn out.
All we can offer is that aside from the tips above, bringing a hatch offering (key or not) can work in your favor if your willing to go the selfish route. The killer will most likely either slug and guard the hatch area or hook and book it there meaning if your at a door you got a nice head start (or if keys in play, you have confusion in your favor)
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@Blink0925 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3299433#Comment_3299433
I never said they had to. I said to deliberately tunnel and camp me out is the problem. I dont care if they want to help me or not, I do not appreciate you reading my bio and knowing what I am trying to do and to sit there and intentionally go out of your way to make sure I dont get it is what I am upset about
Well just to be that guy we gotta say having people read your bio is asking for trouble on a game like this.
As for the topic, people will play how they want. Some want to MAKE people angry and from the look of it it worked. Some killers still do meme around but if you're expecting it you're setting yourself for disappointment.
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We do. It feels better with the controller.
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@kaneyboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3299362#Comment_3299362
mind games are part of looping
Outa curiosity, where's the mind game of running around a truck?
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To answer the title, it's because the survivors are supposed to out whit the killer. You become predictable prey your gonna go down pretty fast.
As for the points:
- Add ons are ment to help the killer. They're supposed to shake up expectations (despite most running the same thing each time)
- Not entirely sure what you mean by predatory but different perks for different play styles. Agitation, a trapper perk, is used alot and can combine with others to hideous effect.
- This answer is above.
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To give the basic answer...they want to survive. Rarely it's for a somewhat practical reason such as rift says escape but most times we don't get it. It is a game.
Playing as killer we make a point to hook everyone once so when this happens (coward that hasn't been seen whole game) the survivors usually are slugs for awhile (boring for all but we WANT that coward) or the slug DC's (understandable if stupid reason that we're partially to blame for. As said it's a game.)
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As killer if the survivor earned our respect or pity we'll usually give the hatch or door. Or at least try to as some just cant accept that the guy killing people will suddenly turn nice (we're some of them). This is dependent on our mood however, as sometimes we'll give it out for the hell of it. Also goes the other way as we may just hook em and be done with it.
As survivor we want to earn our escape. We won't take hand outs to many peoples confusion and would rather die to endgame.
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We have reach the wall point ladies and gentlemen and all in-between
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@Rudjohns said:
I need more evidence, of course, but I just had a game where I unhooked myself and 2 others as well (with no Up the Ante and Luck offerings) and I had another game where I unhooked myself first try.
Stop stealing all the luck dang it!
As for the question, no we haven't seen anything like this.
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@ohheyitsbobcat said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298084#Comment_3298084
Yeah, the perk could be changed any which-way. I was more curious of what people thought about a Perk(s) that could be used by the killer and survivor at the same time instead of limiting it to one side.
We would like to at least see what would happen in a test run for perks like these. Could spice up things.
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@Murgleïs said:
Nobody is holding the game hostage here. The survivor can leave at any time, and the killer and grab the survivor too. They both have a choice.
Technically wouldn't that mean both are just as guilty then? Either has a choice.
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To be fair, hatch works for these challenges.
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297356#Comment_3297356
Ah, just realized I was being baited.
No worries. Well played I guess.
(sadly he really wants an in-depth explanation, there's 2 of us here and he's, as in the usual talking one, literally flipping me off for asking for him)
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297334#Comment_3297334
Eh.
Trapper is less mechanically complex than knight, but that's not important at all.
In terms of gameplay? Trapper is miles more complex on a simple decision making level.
Uh...not sure how much Trapper you've actually played at a moderate MMR, because that'll only work if you're playing against potatoes.
We played plenty. On simple decision making (where simple implies less complex mind you) we want you to please explain what you mean.
(Not sure why this is bugging him so much, but surprisingly it is so good job)
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297318#Comment_3297318
- The maps where Sadako is decent are maps where almost all killers are decent. It's less Sadako being good as the map being bad.
- GF has substantially better chase, because you get a free approach (why does Sadako need a lullaby again?) and, if you're playing right, often an instant down. That's massive.
- No, some things objectively suck. Just because some odd people enjoy them doesn't mean they don't suck (see again, my Adam Sandler Movies analogy).
We're gona have to disagree on ring child as we feel we both would end up going round and round if we keep going
@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297175#Comment_3297175
Absolutely, yes.
It's not about the complexity of the numbers. The numbers are easy to work out, and the game basically handholds you with 'this is the breaker guy, this is the chase guy, this is the patrol guy'.
What makes Trapper a lot more complex to play is that you need to know which traps are worth retrieving at any point in time, where to put them on every map, which also depends on tiles and which gens are done, and then how to chase people into them.
Knight's entire playstyle could probably be written as a single If/Then/Else statement.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297208#Comment_3297208
Nobody is saying that Knight is too complex. He's not complex at all - and that's the problem.
Yes, a killer that can't hook, down and chase is going to be a bad killer, because *that's literally what a killer does*. It's like saying 'oh, this vacuum cleaner you bought doesn't clean, but we're not taking it back because it's great for holding up your wobbly table'.
Do you stream? Because I'd love to see the survivors you're facing or if you're just doing something vastly different to me.
- You send the Carni off to kick a gen. This does nothing, because survivors will immediately be back on it. So you save it for a pallet break. Only now, you're an M1 killer until Meg drops a pallet. Yawn.
- You send Jailor off to patrol gens. He doesn't last long, and survivors can just avoid him with the massive, visible ring. And you're an M1 until he's done. Your power, once again, has done literally nothing but stall the game out a few seconds.
- I don't think your strawman here is representative of either me or literally anyone I've seen trying to play Knight.
- Pincer method doesn't work unless the survivor is silly and tries to loop you around a large structure and continues to do so while being pursued. A savvy survivor just runs off the second he hears the summon start, and by the time you've caught up you needn't have bothered.
- Yes, maps with unsafe locations are fantastic, aren't they? Tell me, where exactly do you push someone to on Cowshed, Mother's Dwelling, Badham and Eyrie?
Sure, some people can do well as Knight. But those people can also do as well, and probably better, on literally any other killer in the game.
As for complexity, we're going to hard stand that yes, knight is more complex than trapper. Trapper requires brains, but so does knight. Who you have at the ready where you are and what needs done now. Carnifex up and there's an annoying survivor you need to keep busy? Send him and go check other tasks. Stabby man (don't know the name) up instead? Send him and chase. You gotta keep multitasking.
Trapper? Get and set traps where you think you need them then get survivors to the landmine zone. Repeat. This is not taking into account coding complexity. Overall we're calling knight more complex.
We may be crazy, but we do have a point.
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@StarLost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297220#Comment_3297220
I've spoken at length about Sadako in multiple threads. But in a nutshell:
- Only viable with one or two extremely unfun gimmick builds that could be better called 'haha everyone depips'.
- Janky teleporting that is extremely reliant on RNG.
- So small that it's impossible to see anything on grassy maps unless you set the game to Low and gives you motion sickness.
- Weak power that's almost useless in chase unless you equip mandatory addons.
- Mandatory brown addons to make her feel even slightly decent.
- Completely incompatible with the current Hold W then use Ex perk meta.
Not saying she's the worst killer ever made (that's probably Trapper) or even the worst recent killer (that goes to Knight). But she still sucks.
And yes, some people might be okay with a killer that sucks, because they like the visuals or being a snowflake, but some people like Adam Sandler movies, and that doesn't mean Adam Sandler movies aren't terrible.
At the risk of going off topic:
While map dependent, sadako is viable without the sluggy condemned build (we don't know what the second build your thinking of is)
The sight and motion sickness is different from person to person. We don't get motion sick from her (though we go blind on Ormond due to it being BRIGHT de manifested)
She has about as much power in chase as gf
Don't think add ons are mandatory, though they make playing her more enjoyable
...hold w happens to everyone who doesn't have mobility for chasesp
What is sucks and doesn't is personal opinions.
All said and done we don't need a 4th knight post as this one is thriving XD
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We think our experiences differ greatly. As survivor we're stressing about what our teammates are doing while as killer we put those who think they can harass us in their place where they either learn quickly to fear us or die (usually die).
Survivor we're constantly looking for that 3 gen to break so we don't have to go through a slough of a match while killer we only have to deal with people holding W or the map itself.
As a word of experience, your gonna need to accept that your gonna lose 1-3 gens by the first hook unless the survivors in question are incompetent or goofing off.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297188#Comment_3297188
Ohh so 30 minutes for a notification... looks smooth.
Well there was a second part but it got censored
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@Sycamore said:
I still have yet to have an issue playing as Knight. What I am tired of however is how every time they release a Killer that does anything other than Chase, down, hook, chase. It's too hard of a Killer to learn how to play The Knight requires you to be aware of and perform multiple things at once. While you're mid chase with Meg, you're sending Carnifex to beat a gen, pallet, or door. While you're scouting for Survivors, you're sending Jailor to patrol two gens, or a high traffic area. Etc. A lot of people get on knight and think they are just as simple as Find Survivor, drop guard, chase survivor. Like that's gonna do anything - because it won't. The point of the guard isn't to chase survivors the same path as your guards. Use the pincer method, or send your guard off to distract another survivor for a while. Use the guards to force survivors into corners, or push them to unsafe locations.
High utility Killers require more planning through, and out of the box thinking.
Least you understand that some killers require more thought than others. We've seen people call killers like artist, blight, and twins brain dead no skill
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We only have a "small" delay (1-30 minutes) for our browser's bell (phone seems ok) so not too sure what's up for you.
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@Emoba said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296586#Comment_3296586
Complex? They did their best to make Knight's kit the LEAST complex possible, mate. Knight is their long-awaited attempt at making a summoner-type killer and they utterly failed at it due to how basic and restricted his design and the clear lack of uniqueness between each of the three guards (who basically are the same exact unit with different stats). The fact that he doesn't even have a CTRL ability (that could be used to switch guards at will or cancel a patrol from distance) says it all.
Less complex than trapper or billy? Really? Making a killer who can summon 3 goons with different values and 1 with an extra ability is less complicated than making one who places traps... We must be insane to think knight is complex...
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While our grudge against Billy may not make us the most unbiased one here...
Collision: There's so many little things now on maps that regular killers get stuck on makes Billy's saw more risk than reward more often than not. Needs to be less punishing for hitting bs on a base level.
Camera: BHVR could give the camera a little more slack for newer Billys (not a lot but a little)
Add ons: We think everyone can agree that Billy's add ons need another go around as alot are... pointless? Useless? We not sure of the right word.
But plz for the love of the entity, Keep the roar. It's hilarious.
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Alot of minor things but the number 1, top of the list, grand prize goes to survivors just holding w for EVERYTHING
We get it. Its the most effective against anyone who doesn't have mobility. But seriously, they hear a beat and they book it to the walls. While its funny to see them fail at this when we play artist, we would like some interaction, skill, or brains (seriously, half them don't even dodge the birds)
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While we sorta like the idea of the base DS, sometimes the tunnel is the only productive option. We leave the hook, unhook happens, come back, look and behold the injured prey is the only one in sight. We could spend time and maybe find someone, or we can go after the easy one in sight right now and get more points and pressure.
As for the exposed idea, it seems kinda useless for best case and detrimental to solos at worst. If the condition is to hit the unhooker, then whats the point of exposed? The unhooker would be injured and probably either downed or safely healed by the time its up. If survivors know their gona be exposed they're just gona hide for the duration which will make solos curse their teammates to the heavens.
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We cant consider dark devotion terrible. Its just to funny on ghostie. Survivors want to reveal the undetectab(stab) WHY IS HE STILL UNDET(stab)