Rulebreaker
Rulebreaker
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@Your_Dad_Playing_DbD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/468363/your-most-toxic-expirence
What’s the purpose of this post? All it’s going to do is lead to arguments about which side (killer or survivor) is more toxic. Go ahead and downvote, but this really doesn’t contribute anything constructive.
Theres this thing call for fun stories. And surprisingly only you brought about what side did what.
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@Angy_Quentin said:
From survivors i versed, they told me to Dead Hard off a Balcony after escaping as a 4man.
From a trickster i versed, he slugged me for four minutes and proceeded to slur me in endgame chat.
For my teammates, they bullied a wholesome nemmy and told him abhorrent stuff in endgame chat im not gonna repeat.
For myself, i ask every ghoul i verse whats his favourite taste of crayon.
Red taste like strawberry
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So this was when the nurse's tome came out, aka a beeping long time ago. Usually I don't touch the nurse due to blinks scrambling something in my head, but tome challenges need done so off I go and get a nice little squad who happened to last second swap to 4 flashlights on this early crusade to get good.
So it quickly becomes apparent to them that I'm an easy target to pick on, not helping matters is that it's at Ormond resort and easy blinds. Not a single one touched gens after the first and I know cause these chases consisted of me, the runner, and a possy of 3 flashlight cowboys. These chases continued on for at least 15 minutes. If I remember correctly I needed hooks for the tome which is why I kept trying to hook despite the obvious. Eventually though even I said "**** this" and Slugging I go. Being in the rare moment of being actually annoyed at something that's not Object, I sit on my slug. They try and try to pester me, but one makes a mistake of getting to close while injured and down they go. This turns into a new game of whack a mole until 3 are down and the last one mysteriously (and at this point very wisely) disappeared.
Obviously after everything I'm NOT in a mood for hooking and guard my toys like a hungry dog with a steak. One. By. One. The die. It isn't until the 3rd is dead that I get lucky and spot where the last went. Shuffling between two lockers at the main building. Que grab...and drop…and nice little wait…and the best part is they have the audacity to throw salt at me for everything, including things like being easy to blind, sucking at chase, yada. (So I don't remember exact salt thrown but there was and this is story time)
Not my finest or nicest moment but I think it's a teaching lesson for everyone. Survivors: Don't anger the killer. Killers: Games only over if they're dead or out.
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Do you want gameplay story, end chat story, what I've done story, mix?
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4086202#Comment_4086202
Some here want it because they lack the mentality to ge thgough loss in online vedeo game.
Yet i never did. Keep track of whom said what or your going to needlessly offend people.
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...sooooo gonna be honest here the joke here eludes me and I feel miffed I don't get it.
Saying that they told me that I wanted basekit unbreakable?
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4085791#Comment_4085791
You are in loss at this part what you wanna change.
As I mention above bleed out option or some abandon option could be made for this but things like basekit unbreakable and stuff thats like giving killer basekit noed speed buff (4% haste) because last gen is done and 4 survivors are alive.So like I sad these two options above (some bleed out or abandon for that situation) are good features for this but other suggestions like basekit unbreakable are way off.
Did I say I wanted basekit unbreakable Watson?
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4085610#Comment_4085610
First or second the game has two sides going after each other, loosing isnt pleasing or feels good to anyone no matter how it wents.
My perk idea works unless killer has huge lethality (huntress,trickster) where he can shread health states, instadown like bubba,billy so he oneshots you before you get to heal him up or mobility to get you super fadt even after he puts you into mend state. If you dont rudh there visibly this perk combo gives both to you and sluged survivor endurance and no killer can shread both of you at the same time just some may shread you before you run there or get one of you faster but still no killer cant down through two survivors with active endurance (unless you will stay in same spot against bubba or run togeather so killer with ability to hit multiple survivors can hit you like plague with corrupt puke but this your fault then if you let situation like this happen).
Actually there's weirdos like me that can enjoy loosing as long as it's was interesting or exciting. Second off not talking about loosing, talking about being able to do something practical for the slug other than twiddling my thumbs waiting for the bleed out besides rewarding the killer for this behavior by handing myself over.
No it doesn't. Tell if the killer is nearby how does the killer lose both survivors? Sure they might lose track of one but betting any decent killer wouldn't lose track of the one they're currently chasing. It delays the killer, it might save the slug if the killer doesn't chase them, but one of the two survivors is going down and the situation repeats itself, only thing that possibly changes is who the slug is.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4085548#Comment_4085548
Thats your issue for not wanting to wait for hatch if theres chance. You are in loose situation annyway just like killer when survs are near gates healthy so best way is to hide or if you run some perks like WGLF plus made for this you can go snd get them.
You can do something with certain perks but if killer protects slug you cant but what would wanns do if you lost almost there and hatch is on your doorstep or chance to get it which is what is all this about here to have chance for hatch and killer circleing around slug is good for getting hatch is sluged survivor doesnt rat you out.
So first off it's my fault I want something more fun than sitting and waiting in an active video game?... Ok sure, and yet is it wrong to expect something other than sitting and waiting especially when it's basically caused by another player? In a actiony horrorish game? Cause let me tell you, that waiting makes for some good sarcastic gameplay right there.
Second your idea with perks doesn't really work if the killer is actually by them. At best it just trades who's slugged less the killer isn't as good as the other players, but if that were true the survivors wouldn't be in that situation and both would either be hiding or working.
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First: Learn to play for fun. Find a build/play style you find fun and get good with that instead of following trends or meta. Do what you enjoy instead of focusing to win at all costs. Obviously try to win, just not at everything else. On a side note I also hope that you don't just enjoy winning at all costs as that defeats the purpose.
Second: Ignore the haters. More awful toxic people in dbd than your average online game. Tuning it out makes things so much better.
Third: As survivor try not to 3 gen. Look around, try to do a gen if you see multiple nearby.
Fourth: As killer pick your gens. 2-3 gens popping isn't the end of the world especially if those were at the edges of the map. Game is over when either everyone is out or dead.
Fifth: As killer pick your fights. If you can't easily catch one person, get some pallets out of them and go find another.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4085461#Comment_4085461
What? Thats perfect situation and you have two options either you wait somewhere hidden from killer until that survivor is dead and have your chance for hatch or you go to the killer and I dont think rest needs to be told here.
All depends on how bad is sluged guy like if he crawles to you then he will reveal you and kill you most likely and second part is are you prepared to wait few minutes to have a chance for hatch? If yes then thats clear situation and killer camping slug only holds himself longer in game unless sluged guy is very nice and crawles to you.
Do you think I want to wait twiddling my thumbs while the slug bleeds out? That's BORING and if there's one thing a rulebreaker hates is being bored.
Besides that point, the response was because the first one suggested that if we cared about our slugged mate we'd do something. That situation shows we CAN'T do something, or atleast something practical to help them, without giving the killer what they want. That rewards them and would promote more of these situations…which ain't a good thing Watson.
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@Raptorrotas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4085464#Comment_4085464
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4085461#Comment_4085461
Did i suggest in any way that you gotta stop being a vulture?
Youre free to be egoistic , but survivors should pratices what they preach about empathy for other players or shut up about it, dontcha think?
So id suggest the last survivor to silently jump into the pity escape hatch, get their escape score and then shut it about killers being evil for slugging
Did i suggest in any way that you gotta stop being a vulture?
In fact yes, you did infact suggest that if we felt for the people slugged we'd need to help them.
If you really felt for slugged people you'd help them instead of being such a vulture for the hatch.
So if we CAN'T help said survivor, what are we to do? I feel for the slugged sap if they were a competent teammate but I literally can't do anything that wouldn't just hand the killer what they want.
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@Raptorrotas said:
Survivors care only for their own escape.
If you really felt for slugged people you'd help them instead of being such a vulture for the hatch.
But your own escape and ego are more important so youd rather hide in a corner and blame the killer for your own strategy.
Soooo what should the 4th survivor do if the killer decides to stay close to the slug while there's multiple gens left?
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@Spirit_IsTheBest said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4085409#Comment_4085409
There are definitely killers who tunnel vision one survivor for too long, ignore nearby survivors on gens, or fail to spread pressure effectively. That's a skill issue, not a generator speed issue.
Where I disagree is that this completely explains why regression perks are so popular. If the answer was simply "killers need better macro," I'd expect slowdown perks to become less common as players improve. Instead, some of the most experienced killer players still regularly run regression because extra time is valuable no matter how good you are playing.
I also don't think regression perks are strictly necessary to win. Plenty of players do well without them. My point has never been that killers can't win without slowdown. It's that slowdown perks provide consistent value in almost every match, which is why so many players choose them.
So, I think both things can be true. A lot of killers could improve and get better results, but that doesn't automatically mean generator pacing has no role in why regression perks are among the most common killer perks in the game.
If the answer was simply "killers need better macro," I'd expect slowdown perks to become less common as players improve.
So heres the main reason why id disagree with this. When the game was arguably easier for killer such as the eruptoverbrine era people still used tactics to make the games easier for themselves. There was less actual chasing, more camping the gens, still the same tunneling. More people will do what makes the game easier for them and usually that just means more time while they do whatever.
While i'd personally love to keep going the pessimistic route, you've also hit the more positive route explanation. Simply that they're also just generally useful but that also means that the players who get better wouldn't stop using them. They're generally simple to use, no complication for value beyond kicking or downing (sans 1 perk i can think of) why stop using them just because your good?
It's that slowdown perks provide consistent value in almost every match, which is why so many players choose them.
So i was under the impression that your arguing that gens speeds are to fast and gen perks feel necessary. Am i incorrect?
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Personally feel that gen speeds are fine. Usually gens only feel fast if A: im doing poorly, B: theres a squad of toolboxes and they happen to have gen perks, C: using a set up killer like Trapper, Hag, or Hux which is more because im probably setting up more than stopping them. People dont need to pressure the whole map at once but they do need to focus more on everything around them than simply "see target, chase target". Theres been SO many killers who've had to have seen me working on a nearby gen while they chase another and instead of breaking off for a bit to hit me or something, they instead continue to circle that rock, break pallet, then keep going for that specific runner. They don't put pressure on multiple ppl nor set up potentially future quicker downs bar pallet destruction.
Some gen regression is fine, it buys you breathing room after all, but i know for fact that theres a good number of players who hyper rely on stacking regression and when they dont have them think "gens go way to fast". They're good, but aren't necessary in general. Maybe for specific players, but people can do fine without them.
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- The game can't tell if you intentionally slugged everyone or if the survivors were idiots and you capitilized on it.
- Its not a guarantee that a slug wouldn't get lucky with hatch nor could the game tell. Same with bots.
- Usually "abandoning" a match would mean your in a lost position already. Take for example the requirements for survivor to abandon. Killers being able to abandon if gens don't get done in a certain time is odd, but im chalking that down to punishment for how killers would camp gens during the erupt over brine era instead of actively hunt down players.
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So have been recently trying to get back to being ok with Trickster who has lightborn, Starstruck, iron maiden, and cruel limits. One match at auto haven (the one with the cottage) had some random ttv and i think at least 2 in a party (not fully sure but more later).
So in the match I go find first guy, chase as normal, got a hit, guy throws pallet and tries blinding me when i reach it. I literally just stare at him as i throw enough knives to down him. Literally didn't move out of the way as i'm pelting him. So i go "ok then…" turns out the ttv comes out from who knows where and drops a flashbang…I proceed to hook my prize and go to last aura location at main. Go up the stairs to be stunned by head on and somehow they got another bang and proceed to drop it in my face as stunned…which goes over as well as expected as iron maiden and lightborn say "ha no" and bat him down. Who shows up but another survivor looking to blind with their flashlight!~ They were soooo starstruck they let me smack them… Can you see where the match is going? Only the one who stayed the hell away from me lasted any time off the hook.
Then the ending. Instead of blaming themselves for repeatedly trying to blind me, instead of NOT using the lockers after the first time, HELL, instead of realizing that I had lightborn stop trying what do i get? Salt. Salt about how im "lame" for running lightborn and my build in general, salt for tunneling somehow, salt for apparently switching to lightborn (and no i didn't, i didn't pay attention to what everyone had when in lobby), salt for this, and salt for that. The other two kept agreeing with said ttv too (hence between their actions, builds, and "cooperation" thinking a party). I pointed out the obvious of the above and got a lot more rage outta it too.
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@Mrpugalug916 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4083369#Comment_4083369
High mmr my friend. I win a lot so naturally im ranked with better players
So which one is true?
Boredom is such a terrible thing...
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Its generally how they play but have a dislike of Billy and Bubba. Both generally do the following: Get close, rev saw, if saw hit collect prize, if miss repeat till you collect prize. Bubba atleast has the excuse of being designed that way and has to manage tokens, however easy. Billy gets arguably better the more he messes up.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4084810#Comment_4084810
That I dont oppose that it can be forced ny perks or some actions like body blocks or sabbo.
Its disliked because it effects bigger half of player base which are survivors but thing is sometimes its necessery or inevitable like killer in one gen left situation having no kills without tunnel (kill which is fastest optained by tunnel on majority of characters) or huge slugging is impossible to win without it almost (only if you got very lucky at endgame while survivor try to save the hooked guy).
Tunneling is part of the game even if you like it or not.
Tunneling is part of the game even if you like it or not.
Yet THAT is not the point is it?
The point that is being made is that some perks such as Sprint burst indirectly encourage the killer to tunnel.
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@TicTac said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4084018#Comment_4084018
As the one who started this discussion i want to clarify some things.
First of the goal was to talk about some methods to hold a power back. This spiraled into the typical nerf discussion, reason why i lost interest and didnt reply to anyone. But back to the reason for the post: Yes, i think Nurse should be nerfed. I think aura-blocking is kinda nice, but doesnt change much. I think reducing her numbers would make her just awful to play. And i think a complete rework would make old nurse mains complain.
Yes, i also think there are other things to be nerfed. Like maps, perks, toolbox, honestly even medkits with some addons are kinda gamechanging and more. But why should i list them in a discussion about Nurse? Its not even about if Nurse should be nerfed, its about which of the mechanics could work. Wont probably never matter for the actual game, but i was curious.
Now im kinda venting and its not about you. Its just kinda boring to see a discussion derail into the Nerf-this-first-discussion Nr. 2478.
Welcome to the forums
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@Slurp_Ramen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4083537#Comment_4083537
but I’m not exactly choosing to commit to the guy with DS.
Person with DS and resurgence gets unhooked I chase the unhooker to not be tunneling scum, if I play well and down the person rather quickly I can TP the person closest to a door (I run bbq and floods of rage on my springtrap), I then get a fast double tap with the axe and then oops guess I tunneled after hooking another person entirely and the guy is fully healthy.
Happens more often than not
You've now made a different scenario, but regardless of that theres flaws with this.
First: You know whos been unhooked recently so long as your keeping track.
Second: You still are going into the risk knowing it could be in play. Your free to choose your targets.
Third: That is NOT "aggressive" DS. Thats the survivor not doing anything meaningful for however long and getting (un)lucky that they had ds still active.
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@Slurp_Ramen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4083528#Comment_4083528
I try not to actively tunnel with springtrap but if survivors unhook in front of me and the unhooked decides to take an axe for the unhooker sure I’ll down them why not.
I had a feeling you might mention actively tunneling with springtrap, but when I do play him it’s not an uncommon occurrence to axe grab a healthy survivor and get hit with DS at 50s because of resurgence and healing speeds still being semi-quick. That’s just been my personal anecdotal experience.Tunneling or not isn't exactly the point, just a easy summation. The point is that your choosing to continue that chase with the unhooked despite the DS risk, therefore to me it is not forced. That axe? sure they ate it, whats stopping you from chasing that other guy instead of going for the axe grab? Whats stopping a basic lunge to down the axed survivor so you dont grab them? The only real valid thing you've said to that would be ping.
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@Slurp_Ramen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4083512#Comment_4083512
ping forcing grabs over m1s overall.
2 slugs on top of each other- niche but possible
I guess it’s technically possible to CJ into a DS, but I’ve never seen it done personally
Lockers
Killer powers: dredge, wesker, springtrap on both axe and doors
Portals on Vecna 1’s map
Medium vault windows
Pallet vaults
Those last 2 happen quite frequently as if you don’t swing and wait for a vault to try and counter a possible DH you can get hit be a ds instead. Like for instance at a T&L loop, you think the survivor has DH so you back rev them until they vault to counter DH but instead of a fast vault, they either slow or medium vault, and if you just go for the lunge many survivors can just reaction E the lunge
- For once thats actually a fair say compared to 99% of whining complaints. Sadly think thats the only one AND if the survivor was doing something that the killer COULD grab, its going to disable a DS. The exception to that is lockers to my knowledge, in which case you also could have just ignored that survivor to begin with.
- That one is still on the killer. Neither me nor my friends have had any trouble with this and alot of my friends aren't dbd experts. If they can do it, anyone can.
- And you couldn't go to the opposite side of the pallet to ensure you don't pick up the survivor? Cause thats something you can do remember.
- See the first bullet.
- Wesker you'd have to more or lest ACTIVELY go into it as he still can M1 to down the survivor bugging you less your not paying attention as otherwise its a non problem. Springtrap would be actively tunneling if an axe grab and would have to be EXTREMELY lucky for a door grab. Dredge is a similar deal where its luck based. We concede 2 out of the 4 points here (dredge lockers and springtrap doors)
- You'd be doing the same thing as lockers. You can simply NOT chase them or interact with them. Thats on the killer.
- Same as above.
- Same as above.
Edit forgot to put the score: 3 to "aggressive ds" vs 9 "killer's fault"
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I really do have a genuine question: What is forcing the killer to get hit by DS?
As killer you can do the following and more:
- Smack the idiot running into your face for an obvious ds and continue chasing someone else
- Smack and DOWN the idiot obviously trying to get DS value and leave them (in this case they cant even whine about slugging without looking bad/stupid/both and no one reasonable would call you on it)
- Ignore the idiot and continue off to protect an important gen.
- Ignore the idiot for a small time to make sure they deactivate DS on their own and come back to murder them
Like…theres no way to force DS period so…
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@Smoe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4083503#Comment_4083503
Some of those aren't hot takes.
to be fair, most anything not "killer" or "survivor" sided/biased/whatever its stupidly called is a hot take at this point.
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Spirit, Henry, Springtrap (technically)
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@Mrpugalug916 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4082741#Comment_4082741
The survivor community that has never played as him at high mmr lol. Thats who bhvr always listens to so it would be on brand if he gets another nerf. They dont listen to the actual veterans in this game. Play against any decent survivors at high mmr and youll get it dude otherwise you have no clue what youre talking about
So then by that logic you don't either correct?
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F it. I got near a decade of silent bile built.
- The quality of players on both sides has PLUMMETED from the past. So much salt and tears about the stupidest of things that a little bit of sense or adapting fixes.
- Complaints about ghouls are overrated. You can loop them. You can't hold W and get away from them. Get over it ppl.
- Killers don't need to abandon after 5 gens get done. The game is still going, your still able to kill people, you can still actually play, your even able to start the timer. Get to killing.
- Stealth is still available and usable. Sometimes it's even the smartest thing to do instead of getting into the killers face and dying in 10 seconds.
- Not all killers run face first screaming for blood of survivors, some require a delicate stab.
- Running face first to a hook in the killers sight is on the survivor in question, not the killer. As a killer I'm NOT letting obvious stupid pass uncontested.
- Ohh a good one: Legion was fine in 2v8.
I'm sorta worried if we give more this account will become more a pariah than it already is...
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@Mrpugalug916 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4082445#Comment_4082445
Theres nothing wrong with slugging though. It counters at least 10 survivor meta perks. Maybe they need to look at the perks instead of a platstyle that generates pressure for the side thats supposed to be the power role. In better asyms, the one was the power role. Evolve is a perfect example. You start off weak but as the match goes on the 4 slowly have to respect you more and more. Unlike dbd when I literally have people unhooking in my face as a killer and being able to get away with it lol
I've yet to see how Slugging counters sprint burst...
You realize that can basically translate to "I don't want to deal with the opposing teams perks" correct? Aka you don't want to actually play with people.
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Depending on the character since we have different gimmicks/themes on each. Examples "Wood" hag has only ruined while "Sea" hag has pain res and gift of pain due to running full hexes and scourge hooks respectively. Forever Freddy is self explanatory, Trapper "traps" the gen via 4 gen blockers, Deathslinger who can only run anything with dead or death in the name. No set pattern.
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At this point im pretty sure its ment to ******************************* to high hell
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@TinfoilHat said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4080582#Comment_4080582
This is the problem tho, as you stated killers feel like their back is against the wall lets be real I get iri 1 killer most seasons if i play but "joe shmo" riding the silver and gold train is 100% going to feel like this BECAUSE if he takes a chase (hits a pallet) a gen is popping and generator anxiety starts to hit. I'm sorry but trying to be as unbiased as i can theres no way these fast gens ripping is fun for either killer OR survivor.
100% the average killer is getting anxiety hoping he doesnt get bagged at gate, sabod to heck with a SWF or bullied in general from a decently educated surv team. Average killers cant be expected to sweat every match playing macro and micro at the same time! Meanwhile you guys get ELUSIVE(which i said was going to be way more of an issue than Fast Track and i stand by) gen perks, fast heals after unhook. You and I might be able to deal with situations like this but average joes are not.
So again, my issue is with the way the match is currently being played. Pallet to Pallet gen rush to oblivion stealth and you expect a guy to not try to slug? Its really a hard task taking hooks after every down or even at all when a 20 second chase can lead to 2 gens popping OFF rip.
Please dont take this as an attack against survivor i play soloq surv from time to time and i find its really fun and most of the time i do not get slugged but with the average time im ripping gens i cant say i blame the killer if he feels thats all is left to do even if it is 2min into the game and 3 gens popped.
Them feeling isn't the same as actually being though. You really think that a killer who would try to slug the whole team is actually against the metaphorical wall? They are not. If cowardice is the cause that's still a people problem, even if it's not the one I thought it was.
You think gens are fast but 9/10 it isn't. Hell gens have gotten longer from the old times, there's plenty of ways to slow gens, regress gens, find survivors quicker, or end chases quicker and it's STILL too fast? Playing macro and micro is PART of playing, it's not sweating. The only times it's fast and outside the killers control is a swf with full gen setup. The rest is usually on the killer.
If you want to bring fun into the equation it's not going to end in your favor as if you think the average survivor wants to spend a match on the ground for the majority of it or have it nothing but non stop chase it's not true.
Because most matches aren't just pallet to pallet gen rush to oblivion stealth, bluntly yes. Especially when it's at 3+ gens standing. I've rarely had something like what you're describing in the 9ish years here, I've rarely seen that from matches from friends. It's not a common thing as long as you're half decent. So again, if it's people being paranoid and in turn using and abusing these from the get go, it's a people problem.
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@TinfoilHat said:
its insane that the mindset is give us a second chance perk BASELINE? its insane that you would think this way, you already have sooo many options against killer esp if you have friends thats 16 perks vs 4 perks??? but you want a get out of jail free card baked into every survivor? and lets be real gens go fast enough that it would be insane to think that a full SWF could just get back up if you misplay.
You down a surv, their friend/teammate is too close why would i want to be forced to pick up when i can punish you for misplaying but instead i have to worry about baseline second lives? get out of here.
There's some problems with these.
The killer themselves? All their options to cut survivors down, from tunneling, to camping, to Slugging, are all baseline. Compared to countering them, it takes more skill and or perks and usually those perks are one offs. So those "options" come at both a cost and temporary use compared to the repeatable free "options" the killer has.
Fearing forced pick ups is reasonable, BUT when people keep Slugging for misery (ie: slug one go off to find another, repeat till everyone is down) then SOMETHING is going to give and no one is to blame but those players whom ruin everything for the rest.
@TinfoilHat said:
but yet killer has to get 4 perks around a team of perks and hope they arent full stealth survs or gen rush survs? come on man stop blaming the killer whos always soloq and start looking at THE issue, GENERATOR REPAIR TIMES. its not fun for killer OR survivor (unless the surv gets to bag at gate then they are happy.) no killer enjoys slugging but if it means a win or bags at the gate sorry but ill tunnel, ill slug and do what it takes against 4 people while my back is against the wall.
If things changed it would benefit NOT ONLY killer but survivors as well. This division and fighting is a symptom of a bigger issue and both sides are grumpy and taking it out on the other side. divided we fall…. js js
And the survivor has to basically use their 4 perks just in case the killer wants to slug or tunnel which is free. Generator times aren't the problem here. Hell no one reasonable will complain much when your back is actually at the wall and you do whatever. The problem is people feel their "back against at the wall" from second one and do these things. Or just don't give a damn about others and do it cause it's free and hard to counter with a bonus of misery to the opposition.
This division and fighting is a symptom of a bigger issue and both sides are grumpy and taking it out on the other side. divided we fall…. js js
The problem is that the bigger issue is the players though. Yes both sides, but it a people problem.
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@Daniel_Silva04 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4080389#Comment_4080389
They exist to help survivors to counter killer strategies and I never said they need to nerf second chance perks, some of them like DS I think it's fair. What I complain is most of them punish killers in an unfair way. The problem with DS for example, is that it can be used aggressively to punish killers that is not even trying to tunnel. Also some perks like Deliverance and Resurgence who heavily punishes the killer for spreading hooks need to be looked at. Why should I hook a survivor that have all those perks and can still punish me unfairly?
No what you said is the following:
Slugging is the best strategy in the game right now. Killers will continue to slug until the devs stop punishing killers for hooking and spreading hooks giving survivors free second chances perks.
Which punishes in an unfair way? Decisive strike, which now only works if your actually being tunneled? You know you can choose not to chase them if they make it obvious they got it correct? Deliverance doesn't really punish spreading hooks. If everyone ran deliverance what happens if you tunnel one person? You got two possibly with deliverance. You spread hooks you have two possibly with deliverance. Resurgence, aka that only help the survivor get healed faster after they been hooked? This is "punishing" the killer? Really? This isn't punishment it's entitlement saying "I don't want the possibility of people using their load out". Hell it's only a POSSIBILITY and people flip out at these? It's rediculous excuses.
@Daniel_Silva04 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4080385#Comment_4080385
And I ask you, why would they not use them? If they have very strong perks to punish the killer all the time for things that they don't even have control over, why shouldn't survivors abuse them?
Now as promised.
The short answer is they really don't. Most those things are only strong against one sort of tactic. Look at DS again. What happens when a killer DOESN'T go for the recently unhooked survivor? Ds doesn't really become a problem then does it? You said "it can be used aggressively to punish killers not even trying to tunnel" but how would you get stabbed if you don't pick up the recently unhooked survivor? Sure they can body block but that's more a base BT thing and after the hit your still able to go for the other or literally anyone else. It's ALL your choice as killer.
Continue on, survivors usually bring second chance perks to counter specific tactics. DS tunneling, Unbreakable Slugging, Deliverance (and I'm stretching calling this a second chance perk) for forcing a trade, Resurgence (again second chance?) for returning to the hook immediately to try and tunnel. The only one I see that's a general all purpose is Dead hard, which can be countered by tunneling, certain killers, perks, add on, and FLINCHING...yes so so abusable and equal to the likes of leaving people on the ground to "play" or having a "game" of nothing but being chased from second one of the trial yes?
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@Daniel_Silva04 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4080385#Comment_4080385
And I ask you, why would they not use them? If they have very strong perks to punish the killer all the time for things that they don't even have control over, why shouldn't survivors abuse them?
Well you answered one of two questions, so why do you think they have them?
I'll fully respond to this part once I got the second part.
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It's not really torn by "should you heal underneath the hook" it more "some people don't really know when and when not it's good to heal underneath the hook".
Also that would just be brutal as a perk. Kinda funny, but brutal.
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@Daniel_Silva04 said:
Slugging is the best strategy in the game right now. Killers will continue to slug until the devs stop punishing killers for hooking and spreading hooks giving survivors free second chances perks.
So I'm curious about something.
Why do YOU think that survivors have "second chance" perks and why do you think survivors run them?
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Is it surprising i don't really find Oni all that bad when Billy is a slightly weaker version without a "fuel"?
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4079294#Comment_4079294
More like you not reading few posts above and then making whole article on fraction on the whole discussion above and trying to prove you are right while getting tilted by "Sherlock". It seems more like this.
Actually I thought the Sherlock thing was for fun.
Now while that LAST post was posted post hangover, it's not incorrect. Also have absolutely no idea what you mean by "making a whole article on fraction on the whole discussion above". I'm not talking fractions, neither the mathematical nor group kinds.
You've never proved the statements wrong. Let's break down the last post.
@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4078373#Comment_4078373
Bt was used because there was no antihook protection and camping was meta, what you dont understand about this?The fact that you keep reenforcing my point on killers staying near the hook and making BT mandatory to get safe rescues (or at minimum not have the rescued eat dirt when their feet hit the ground) while trying tosoundlike your disproving something mayhapse? It's heavily confusing how your trying to sound like your poking holes in my argument when your helping it along [and Igenuinelymean that, its bizarre even by my standards].Your standarts, getting nerf arent we. Theres sometimes reason why killer is near hook and bt back then was used because meta was camping thing you missed after years of games development.
L
ets break down the points on what you need to argue against yes? First is "BT was practically a necessity to run due to killers being able to down a survivor immediately off hook". You've done nothing to argue against this.At all Watson.Again I hope your nervs arent done, that "watson" somehow got into your head deep.
Second "in the past killers stayed near the hook". You give "reasons" on why killers did so butthat does not hinder my argument in the slightest. You areadmittingthey did stay near the hook in the past which helps me because if the survivor did not run BT then the rescued survivor would likely taste dirt the second they touched itdueto the killer being nearby.Third is "when the survivors just did gens then people complained because they were left on hook". You've also done nothing to argue against this or disprove it.People complain even when they shouldnt or there isnt anything that is to be complained about, just what you do against basement trapper?
Never did I say it couldn't be used aggressively. Quite frankly I expect anyone whos seen normal basekit BT to have an idea what survivors could do with old BT. Also never have I said that it was only used to counter facecamping. For someone whos claiming im gaslighting your having a reaaaaaaally hypocritical moment here trying to gaslight me. To wit Watson, the definition of gaslighting:[Gaslighting is a form of persistent psychological manipulation and emotional abuse where a person causes someone to question their own memories, perception of reality, or sanity. By denying events, twisting words, and trivializing feelings, the abuser gains power and control, making the victim dependent on them.]Something you exceed here well mr google.
While I already have low sanity, i've not denied or twisted anything. My statement found in here:https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4077939#Comment_4077939
The essence of my words equates to the following:The survivors in the past had to unhook while the killer was near
Like they do now nothing new sherlock.
The killer was near the hook a good amount of the time
When camping and facecamping was meta its obvious but if you need to write it more to finally understand it well good for you.
When people did gens instead of saves people complained about not being able to play due to not being saved.
And thats something new here? People complain even when you do something right and it was best counter and it is even today to some situations, sherlock.
This is as thorough as I can make this. Good luck Watson.Ty Sherlock.
Your standarts, getting nerf arent we. Theres sometimes reason why killer is near hook and bt back then was used because meta was camping thing you missed after years of games development.
Whether or not camping was meta, whether or not there are reasons, THE KILLER WAS BY THE HOOK. That's my point. If they WEREN'T by the hook that's arguing against me, but you didn't say that. You've just basically keep saying "There's reasons the killer was by the hook". If you keep saying I'm wrong by being right it doesn't help any other point and is jarring. Also:
Your standarts, getting nerf arent we.
What?... like a genuine flat what? Censored words confusion?… Hu?
Now moving on from....that mess of random:
Again I hope your nervs arent done, that "watson" somehow got into your head deep.
You again just sound like your saying I'm wrong...yet you've only proved me right while thinking your doing the opposite. None of the past posts or this one has done anything but reinforced my point and confuse me with your tone.
People complain even when they shouldnt or there isnt anything that is to be complained about, just what you do against basement trapper?
So Watson I got a question. Did people complain about being left on the hook? Another question Watson. Does it matter whether or not you think they should or shouldn't have been complaining about that whole mess?
Spoilers: the answers are YES and NO respectively.
The "argument" of complaining when they "should" (and I question your thoughts of "should") doesn't really affect the fact that THEY DID which is my point.
Something you exceed here well mr google.
YOU were the one accusing ME of gaslighting remember? If YOU don't want to be proven wrong don't go falsely accusing ppl.
Like they do now nothing new sherlock.
Want to know what they DIDN'T have back then? Basekit BT. So what would happen if they unhook when killer was near for any reason? The unhooked would be a slug in record time unless the unhooker ran BT...hu…kinda like we've been saying right Watson? Weird ain't it.
When camping and facecamping was meta its obvious but if you need to write it more to finally understand it well good for you.
Which again reenforces me while you keep acting like it's not.
And thats something new here? People complain even when you do something right and it was best counter and it is even today to some situations, sherlock.
It's not new but its what happened isn't it? If my point is that people did complain about this saying it isn't new isn't arguing against me.
So AGAIN, the whole point of this Watson?
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4078373#Comment_4078373
Bt was used because there was no antihook protection and camping was meta, what you dont understand about this?The fact that you keep reenforcing my point on killers staying near the hook and making BT mandatory to get safe rescues (or at minimum not have the rescued eat dirt when their feet hit the ground) while trying tosoundlike your disproving something mayhapse? It's heavily confusing how your trying to sound like your poking holes in my argument when your helping it along [and Igenuinelymean that, its bizarre even by my standards].Your standarts, getting nerf arent we. Theres sometimes reason why killer is near hook and bt back then was used because meta was camping thing you missed after years of games development.
L
ets break down the points on what you need to argue against yes? First is "BT was practically a necessity to run due to killers being able to down a survivor immediately off hook". You've done nothing to argue against this.At all Watson.Again I hope your nervs arent done, that "watson" somehow got into your head deep.
Second "in the past killers stayed near the hook". You give "reasons" on why killers did so butthat does not hinder my argument in the slightest. You areadmittingthey did stay near the hook in the past which helps me because if the survivor did not run BT then the rescued survivor would likely taste dirt the second they touched itdueto the killer being nearby.Third is "when the survivors just did gens then people complained because they were left on hook". You've also done nothing to argue against this or disprove it.People complain even when they shouldnt or there isnt anything that is to be complained about, just what you do against basement trapper?
Never did I say it couldn't be used aggressively. Quite frankly I expect anyone whos seen normal basekit BT to have an idea what survivors could do with old BT. Also never have I said that it was only used to counter facecamping. For someone whos claiming im gaslighting your having a reaaaaaaally hypocritical moment here trying to gaslight me. To wit Watson, the definition of gaslighting:[Gaslighting is a form of persistent psychological manipulation and emotional abuse where a person causes someone to question their own memories, perception of reality, or sanity. By denying events, twisting words, and trivializing feelings, the abuser gains power and control, making the victim dependent on them.]Something you exceed here well mr google.
While I already have low sanity, i've not denied or twisted anything. My statement found in here:https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4077939#Comment_4077939
The essence of my words equates to the following:The survivors in the past had to unhook while the killer was near
Like they do now nothing new sherlock.
The killer was near the hook a good amount of the time
When camping and facecamping was meta its obvious but if you need to write it more to finally understand it well good for you.
When people did gens instead of saves people complained about not being able to play due to not being saved.
And thats something new here? People complain even when you do something right and it was best counter and it is even today to some situations, sherlock.
This is as thorough as I can make this. Good luck Watson.Ty Sherlock.
See your agreeing with me while trying to sound like your disproving something here. So again, the point of your first post? Cause genuinely confused about it all.
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Jason is one of the iconic old school slashers. Dbd would lose a lot of it's already shredded horror reputation if they didn't atleast try. So who cares.
Besides, there's ways to make plain slashers fun if the devs decided to be creative about it.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4078300#Comment_4078300
Bt was used because there was no antihook protection and camping was meta, what you dont understand about this? Its like the same thing why ds is nowdays used because tunneling is meta (plus its super strong perk just like bt was which means people run it more instead of weaker ones).
The tunneling was as exsample with same logic, if something is highly used then its logicaly used something that works against it like camping-bt,tunneling-ds. Just go and read the above posts you didnt get it right.Why was dribbling used? Ds worked totaly differently than now obsession could use it instantly when being picked up and by 99,9% obsession had always ds, survivors achieving 45% of wiggle got ds when they werent obsession so killer dribble to counter it logicaly same as survivor ran perks to counter some used tactics like bt for camping which was highly used.
You miss one point bt wasnt used only to counter facecamping and camping killers but as all counters it can/could be used agrassively like trade hooks didnt exist with og bt if killer didnt had oneshot on his sttack or survivor wasnt injured, your breakdown is half gaslight.
Bt was used because there was no antihook protection and camping was meta, what you dont understand about this?
The fact that you keep reenforcing my point on killers staying near the hook and making BT mandatory to get safe rescues (or at minimum not have the rescued eat dirt when their feet hit the ground) while trying to sound like your disproving something mayhapse? It's heavily confusing how your trying to sound like your poking holes in my argument when your helping it along [and I genuinely mean that, its bizarre even by my standards].
Lets break down the points on what you need to argue against yes? First is "BT was practically a necessity to run due to killers being able to down a survivor immediately off hook". You've done nothing to argue against this. At all Watson.
Second "in the past killers stayed near the hook". You give "reasons" on why killers did so but that does not hinder my argument in the slightest. You are admitting they did stay near the hook in the past which helps me because if the survivor did not run BT then the rescued survivor would likely taste dirt the second they touched it due to the killer being nearby.
Third is "when the survivors just did gens then people complained because they were left on hook". You've also done nothing to argue against this or disprove it.
Just go and read the above posts you didnt get it right.
Your words:
Your logic breaks here if tunneling is so good when everyone (almost) runs dsand other protection perks???? Same with bt everyone (almost) used it because unhooking infront of killer meant that hooked guy went down instantly without bt and ds wasnt working like now, guess you forget dribblink because of ds.
So what, prey-tell Watson, in that proves any of the three above points wrong? You again give a "reason" on why people would bring BT but that does not change the fact that without it the above dirt eating comes into effect should the killer have been near, nor does it change the fact people would complain about being left on hook, nor does it change the fact killers stayed near the hook.
Why was dribbling used? Ds worked totaly differently than now obsession could use it instantly when being picked up and by 99,9% obsession had always ds, survivors achieving 45% of wiggle got ds when they werent obsession so killer dribble to counter it logicaly same as survivor ran perks to counter some used tactics like bt for camping which was highly used.
Do I need to again say how it doesn't argue against those three points?
You miss one point bt wasnt used only to counter facecamping and camping killers but as all counters it can/could be used agrassively like trade hooks didnt exist with og bt if killer didnt had oneshot on his sttack or survivor wasnt injured, your breakdown is half gaslight.
Never did I say it couldn't be used aggressively. Quite frankly I expect anyone whos seen normal basekit BT to have an idea what survivors could do with old BT. Also never have I said that it was only used to counter facecamping. For someone whos claiming im gaslighting your having a reaaaaaaally hypocritical moment here trying to gaslight me. To wit Watson, the definition of gaslighting:
[Gaslighting is a form of persistent psychological manipulation and emotional abuse where a person causes someone to question their own memories, perception of reality, or sanity. By denying events, twisting words, and trivializing feelings, the abuser gains power and control, making the victim dependent on them.]
While I already have low sanity, i've not denied or twisted anything. My statement found in here:
@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4077937#Comment_4077937
Back then people DID unhook when the killer was near because a good amount of the time the killer wasn't far to begin with. And when people "did gens instead" people complained about not being able to play the game because no one would unhook them. Which then spirals into circles.
The essence of my words equates to the following:
- The survivors in the past had to unhook while the killer was near
- The killer was near the hook a good amount of the time
- When people did gens instead of saves people complained about not being able to play due to not being saved.
What part of this Watson is gaslighting?
This is as thorough as I can make this. Good luck Watson.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4078164#Comment_4078164
Back then meta was around camping, first top tier favored playstyle was face camping because survivors had no basekit features after unhook like now.
Your logic breaks here if tunneling is so good when everyone (almost) runs dsand other protection perks???? Same with bt everyone (almost) used it because unhooking infront of killer meant that hooked guy went down instantly without bt and ds wasnt working like now, guess you forget dribblink because of ds.
Camping was way more meta back then and it worked so people runned perks to fight it, same as they do against tunneling nowdays.
Mr sherlock I think this case has been solved.
So Mr. Watson, theres a few things here
First is that the start of this chain was when GeneralV brought up that in the past bringing BT was almost always needed back then to stop a killer from almost immediately hitting you down once your feet touched the ground.
Reinami goes on to say that people didn't unhook when the killer was near and if the killer was near then they did gens instead of.
I go and insert my 2 cents saying people did end up having to unhook while the killer was near because often the killer was not far away. I continue that when people did gens instead of unhooking people complained about not being able to play the game because they were stuck on the hook. Thus it spirals into needing to DO those unsafe unhooks and without BT, it was effectively death for the unhooked because the killer was near and would immediately put the "rescued" survivor on the ground.
You then imply to me (and seem to confirm) that killers stayed by the hook because people ran BT…which then reenforces my point that survivors were forced to do unsafe unhooks and by consequence near always run BT. You also bring up camping was stronger back then, which is indeed true, but that also has the consequence of reenforcing my point. Because it was stronger more killers did it. Your intention here was unclear as it looks like your agreeing with me yet sound like your not. Hence I asked for clarification.
Second never once did I, nor the General, nor even Reinami i think bring up tunneling. This whole thing is about BT, basekit BT, and how its a necessity for people to be able to play more, or at the very least more enjoyably.
Third
Your logic breaks here if tunneling is so good when everyone (almost) runs dsand other protection perks???? Same with bt everyone (almost) used it because unhooking infront of killer meant that hooked guy went down instantly without bt and ds wasnt working like now, guess you forget dribblink because of ds.
This is a mess. As I said above Watson never did we bring up tunneling. You are again reenforcing my point while sounding like your tearing it down…which your not because we never brought up tunneling. Your also breaking your own argument against yourself, and achievement since I've only seen that once before. You complain about protection perks like DS…and remind everyone here of dribbling survivors so they cant use DS. If the goal is to confuse me, you have very well succeeded.
So Dr. Watson…the case is still open. By your own hand in fact.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4077939#Comment_4077939
They did it because eeryone run borrowed time which is nowdays basekit with haste effect after being unhooked.
Og borrowed time could be used only once but if you were in killers terror radius you gave endurence to yourself and unhooked guy. Another thing is canmping was more used as meta back then especialy with lack of unhooked protection so when someone complains about camping nowdays I hardly laught at it because its just fraction of problem then it was back then.
They did it because eeryone run borrowed time which is nowdays basekit with haste effect after being unhooked.
So were assuming here that your saying killers stayed near the hook because everyone ran BT? Because as you actually recalled the original BT required you to be in the terror radius…so why would the killer purposefully stay near the hook if they thought about BT? Cause that seems like really dumb logic and not something I did back then.
Not being rude here, genuine honest confusion, the point of this?
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This is just an idle thought but what if they make it so the specific killer also gets a type of "sin" for bm. Killer single handedly makes the match "wholesome" by existence would also be hilarious
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4078135#Comment_4078135
If only I had my own gameplay to share from the good old days.
I guarantee I would change your mind.
It was kinda funny how people kept underestimating him then when they meet people who used him well it turned into a "######### just happened" moment
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@cogsturning said:
The anti-BMing aspect of this killer is nothing short of embarrassing. They really caved to people crying about tbagging. It doesn't even make sense from a narrative perspective. The survivors are sinful for squatting and pointing, but they're also innocent people trapped in a hellish nightmare trying not to be murdered, so how sinful all they, really?
To be fair, theres a cultist survivor whos not innocent and mr. scratch whos a villain.
Also to be fair, its bloody hilarious. -
@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4077934#Comment_4077934
Back then we didn't unhook when the killer was near, and if the killer WAS near you did gens instead. To be fair gens were slightly shorter then, 80 seconds as opposed to 90. But the hook timer was also 60 seconds and not 70, so i feel it does balance out. In general i have seen the quality of survivor play continue to go down as more and more hand-holdy basekit mechanics are added for survivors.
Back then people DID unhook when the killer was near because a good amount of the time the killer wasn't far to begin with. And when people "did gens instead" people complained about not being able to play the game because no one would unhook them. Which then spirals into circles.
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From his play style ghost face is supposed to play like an ambush predator. Stealthily without the prey knowing when a knife goes into their back.
What's all sneaky when someone is actively watching you?
Also just because it's a stupid idea doesn't mean people won't do it (not counting end game where they could camp without worry).