Rulebreaker

@Lavoonus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109300#Comment_4109300
Shoulder is still very effective against non tunneling killers, arguably more effective than its primary use.

Let's say a tunneling and non tunneling killer each get 4 hooks against survivors A, B, C, and D. The tunneling killer hooks survivor A back to back, with survivor D using Shoulder to take their second hook state. Since this killer is trying to tunnel they're proxying the hook, so once that happens they can chase A or D, down them in one basic attack, and have a survivor on death hook. From there they can tunnel whoever they chose to hook, and if they're Jason or brought a Mori offering they don't even need to worry about survivor D having DS. In this case the tunnel out was delayed, but by 4 hooks 1 survivor is dead and another one is a hook state down.

For the non tunneling killer, let's say their first three hooks are on A, B, and C. Afterwards, they run into A again. This would put them on death hook, which means that even while going out of their way to not tunnel they would still force survivor A to play very safe afterwards to avoid getting sacrificed. However instead, survivor D recognizes this and uses Shoulder to take their second hook state. Since the killer isn't planning to tunnel they were most likely not proxying the hook, so they end up with 4 survivors with one hook state. None of them are close to being sacrificed yet so there's no need for any of them to play safe either, they are free to focus on pressuring gens. Shoulder being used once completely eliminated the pressure of the survivor getting found again, with no extra danger from the exposed due to the killer not wanting to proxy their hooks.

Would it not be fair to say the tunneling killer is more likely to win their match from here than the non tunneling killer?

One more example: A killer's first hook is on Survivor A, who has Deliverance. They seemingly lost their chance to activate the perk, however survivor D uses Shoulder to take their hook state. Now the killer has a choice, they can either tunnel and still prevent the perk from being used or they can ignore it and leave the opportunity to be punished later when they hook survivor A again. Is this not a situation where the killer is given incentive to tunnel?

Again, not really.

For this scenario as the tunneling killer is focusing on A the rest have the time to focus on gens realitively unimpeaded and without fear. A tunneling killer would NOT switch to D (as per a high amount of basic definitions of tunneling) so the part of D having to worry is redundant. The only time wasted is getting the correct survivor to get the unhook as once the unhook happens the tunneler will almost usually stop whatever they were doing and rush back to the hook. This time would depend on positions but if this is a organized swf like the OP mentions, then it will be negligible as they can…well organize themselves to be where they need when.

For this scenario the survivors did not have all that time completely free and assuming that "playing safe" means being near useless. I've both been and seen people on death hook "play aggressive" so its not like it actually forces anything. This scenario the killer is basically spreading their attention around anyway so things would be pressured even if no one is on death hook and theres probably more time used healing or now theres multiple easier downs instead of them glued to the gens as the killer did pressure the others in that scenario. This is also assuming that the killer wouldn't proxy hooks, people freely do that without tunneling such as waiting for the unhooker and going after them, chasing survivors around said hook or nearby, etc.

Both these are also not even looking at the long terms after those hooks. How many gens would get done during each scenario? My money is on the first scenario would have more gens done while the second would have some with progress but fewer actually done.

The tunneling killer would be more likely to win regardless as thats kinda a big reason why people tunnel. Its easier to win doing it. In these scenarios however the answer is no due to the above mentioned long term.

A very specific scenario that the killer would have no way of knowing regardless? Thats a pretty poor example. And no, the killer isn't given an incentive to tunnel from THAT because they have no way of knowing if deliverance is in play or not.

in “Shoulder the Burden” needs to be nerfed, or the anti-camping mechanic needs to be removed Comment by Rulebreaker August 19, 2026

@Mysore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109287#Comment_4109287
Of course it makes a difference—I'd take two decisive strikes, not to mention the other shoulder hits.

…Read this again:

IT DOESN'T DO MUCH IF YOU DON'T FOCUS ON ONE SURVIVOR

Its the one survivor part you seem to miss.

Let me ask this: Are you tunneling?

If yes, shoulder is working as intended and making it very difficult to tunnel a single survivor out in that manner. If no, then shoulder is not really doing anything that would affect you.

Also if you'd please explain this:

I'd take two decisive strikes, not to mention the other shoulder hits.

I don't exactly know what you mean so before i make an ******* of myself could you please clarify?

in “Shoulder the Burden” needs to be nerfed, or the anti-camping mechanic needs to be removed Comment by Rulebreaker August 19, 2026

@Mysore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4109253#Comment_4109253
Over time, more people realized just how broken this perk is. In SA, because streamers were racking up win streaks with 3–4 shoulder pads and 4 toolboxes containing new parts, this became an epidemic—almost every match now has SWFs with 3–4 shoulder pads and a toolbox to speed up generator repair. In other words, SWFs have toolboxes to speed up the generators and, on top of that, a perk on 4 survivors that delays the killer from eliminating someone from the match—do you understand how serious this problem is?

See though, it really ain't. Reminder to the people that it TRANSFERS hook states. It doesn't delete them, it makes it so the unhooker has the hookstate.

Now assuming you didn't tunnel... what happens? Not much, a surprise living or death hook at best. What happens when you do tunnel? You end up hooking that single survivor alot more times.

Now for clarity I'm going to repeat this again: IT DOESN'T DO MUCH IF YOU DON'T FOCUS ON ONE SURVIVOR. "Delays the killer from eliminating someone from the match", so does SB, so does DS, so does DH, so does Overcome, A LOT of perks do this. This ain't special.

Like really people…your problem above is with the toolboxes and a unhealthy desire to tunnel, not shoulder.

in “Shoulder the Burden” needs to be nerfed, or the anti-camping mechanic needs to be removed Comment by Rulebreaker August 19, 2026

@Mysore said:
“Shoulder the Burden” at high MMR is becoming a serious problem. This perk is making organized SWFs practically invincible. Killer players are being punished for playing well, since this perk nullifies all of the killer’s good plays and all of the survivors’ mistakes. Did I play well and take down the survivor quickly? Shoulder. Did the survivor play poorly and die quickly? Shoulder. The only way to TRY to prevent getting Shoulder is by pressuring the hook up close, but anti-camping doesn’t allow it. Behavior has no way to win a match at high MMR without taking out a player quickly, and this perk in the hands of good SWFs—with 3–4 Shoulders—completely nullifies the killer’s chance of winning the match. Quite simply, the game is relying on SWFs winning matches not through skill, but through the repetition of Shoulder, DS, and DH. Either remove anti-camping so we can deal with Shoulder up close, or change this perk, or just allow it to be used only once on the same player—because it’s not fair to be matched against a killer knowing I’m going to lose to a team repeatedly using Shoulder The Burden.

...ya know I still don't really GET why shoulder has suddenly become a problem now. It's been what? A year or 2? And it still does the same thing, still only really affects tunneling... like what really changed?...did tunneling somehow become MORE popular than it was already?...

in “Shoulder the Burden” needs to be nerfed, or the anti-camping mechanic needs to be removed Comment by Rulebreaker August 18, 2026

Victory wise, winning is defined by the player as seen above.

Lore wise both sides are to feed the entity with emotions and are rewarded accordingly. Killing the survivors in a boring but practical manner doesn't generate as strong emotions as sparks of hope getting snuffed out in a brutal manner.

in What is winning? Comment by Rulebreaker August 14, 2026

@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4107854#Comment_4107854
I feel like if they DID wanna introduce a separate game mode that is just for separating competative players from casual... you're right in that there would need to be some kind of prize limited to the competitive queue as well as more strict matchmaking. Im not sure if overwatch is still doing it, but I remember earning a special currency that was used to get weapon skins. Higher competitive rank= more special currency at the end of the season. This gave a prize for competitive people to push for on the ranked queue, which kinda left the the unranked mode for people who didnt wanna lock in so to speak.
The only issue I see for DBD is its asym nature brings a unique problem. For overwatch, both sides had a mixed bag of player ranks so even if you were high rank, you'd have low rank teammates to even things out. For DBD... you cant really do that when you have a "team" of 1.

To be fair, mmr would, in theory, allow things to relatively even out as is supposed to find relatively fair matches, yet we all know how it actually works.~

in Actual ranked mode Comment by Rulebreaker August 13, 2026

@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4107408#Comment_4107408
You still have BP gains, changes in your killer or survivor rank and the Iri shards you get from leveling up. I guess you could include an item from a chest too, lol.
The prize for Congo mode is mostly the cheap giggle if the ghostface couches down to be on the end. You go in fully expecting to not get nearly as much as if you were playing seriously.

Yet you gain BP in both scenarios and the ranks are simply for more BP which aren't used for much except offerings (90% of the time for more BP) or items you could get from a box. Now this is subjective but to me this lowers the "quality" of the "prizes". If these prizes are worth it then it's the same to me as if the above overwatch match has the prize of "honor of making a comeback" or something similar.

I could be wrong but as far as I noticed (aka not at all) performance in a trial doesn't effect the increase you get player levels. Regardless of that, you still do get increases in player levels win or lose (this I DID notice) which renders it the same as the above BP.

And due to the above getting things regardless win or lose, there's a decidedly lack of stakes.

in Actual ranked mode Comment by Rulebreaker August 13, 2026

@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4107383#Comment_4107383
The lack of a prize of any kind as well as no stakes makes it casual. The only thing the object being present really did was prevent you from staying on 1 map. "Winning" or "losing" changed nothing.

But there's a lack of prize and no stakes in normal DbD...which leaves me wondering why dbd que is "competitive mode".