Rulebreaker
Rulebreaker
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3667371#Comment_3667371
Half of which group? The people who talk on the forums or even on a specific post are not a representative group... If that would be something relevant they would need to do a survey about the topic so it would be clearer how many people are really against or in favor of it, but speculating just by the amount of people here seems completely useless...
Which game has a profanity filter in the voice chat? Never heard of that before but we'll sure... As long as I can disable it fine by me. Yeah the spaghetti code makes it hard to get stuff done... I just love how they broke pinhead lunge attack or vault distances on females xD How does such a thing ever happen...
I mean the focus on it would be to bridge the gap between soloq and swf, a discussion that has been held for years by now... I don't know what exactly would be the bigger fish? ^^ However unless it is re programming this whole mess of code so stuff does not just randomly break I cannot currently think of a bigger fish ^^
I mean sure but things like you might hear background noises in itself surely is not that big of a con... Some things might be subjective, but that type of small inconvenience that can easily be avoidable is hardly arguable.
The forums specific. In that case why don't we? Host a survey, that way atleast the ones who are in favor and hiding will speak up (or the opposite).
Considering how they added a profanity filter to the end game chat, it stands to reason (to us atleast) that the devs wish to migate the toxicity of chats. Other games are irrelevant as we are speaking of DBD. Random updates breaking random things is one of DBD's great mysteries~ [Ha, even the code has rng]
Yet there are other ways to bridge said gap without the voice coms. Chat wheels work just as well and voice coms don't solve the problem of teammates (more specific people swinging, doing something stupid, focusing on rift over all else, etc). Bigger fish includes health of the game, balancing maps, perks, and killers, new content (we do acknowledge coms would be included in this but we do mean new killers perks collabs and the like), etc. We will admit that the "bigger fish" are also subjective but these are more immediate and (this is to us) practical to do.
You do have a point that combing the code would indeed be a big fish, but its also not something to do in a reasonable time and not worth it (least seems so to the devs, our own thoughts on the matter vary) as currently it is still working relatively smooth. Voice coms would be a smaller fish in of itself but theyd either have to comb the code or add it in and hope nothing breaks to bad (doubt that'll happen).
Since there are other ways to bridge the gap other than voice coms its not that big of a pro and we can ignore all of the cons that come with it. See the problem with that?
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3667245#Comment_3667245
That neglects that people might want to interact via voice sometimes, they might not mute all people every day.
Also if you load into a game and see pre muted people you can decide to unmute them if you feel like it... And mute them again if they are still problematic, but it is your choice, that's how it should be the game gives you the option but you are to decide.
Sure that's true, but then again if you just list them without evaluating how big of a deal each one is then it does nothing, because you can have one good reason on the pro side that outweighs 10 reasons on the con side...
From what we've seen here, about half is the minimum of people who would be muting or are against voice coms. True this is neglecting the ones who do want voice coms but think of this: whats the amount work that would need to go into making the voice coms work in game (and probably a profanity filter). Its not simple (not too sure as to how complicated, but its not simple, especially since this game is 7 yrs and seemingly random things break from simple updates.) If a majority wouldn't be using it anyway, why focus on it when there's bigger fish to fry? Same as if its going to cause known problems, why bother?
We're listing them because everyone has a different view of whats a big deal. Thats a subjective stance. You may think that 1 pro outweighs the cons but we sure dont.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666607#Comment_3666607
But most of the meta is locked behind a DLC paywall. It isn't ideal, but this is how the game works.
Everyone is thrown to the wolves, but the wolves will always have to think about a potential stun. As you've said, it doesn't completely fixes things, but I think it will help.
At least it should put an end to the sheer wave of tunneling we're currently seeing.
Don't count on it mate
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3667134#Comment_3667134
Yeah and then you simply mute themthem and it is fine... And since you oftentimes will not really encounter the same person several times it is completely fine...
As for the getting ignored part... If somebody does not respond to you and the first thing you assume is that they ignore you for whatever reason and not the possible language barrier or them just not wanting to talk, which is also fine... Then that is kind of on you, however there are still two other people in the match you can communicate with, so even though some might chose to not interact with you there are several other people.
The problem being, your going to end up muting everyone to the point it's redundant. Not just for the background noise point, almost all the points.
And if those people are the same? Now don't get us wrong, we wouldn't care about being ignored, but if others throw hissy fits for basic slights then its just opening a can of worms for little reason especially with this player base.
Third the point of a pro and con list is to list the pros and cons.
Edit: we just realized this post is from January
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Honestly it'll probably just end the same as it was during the time it was like that. The main reason survivors could weaponize DS was because they could do anything while still being under its protection with unbreakable as a fall back. Long as the conspicuous actions restriction is there many will act the same as before (some respect it, some won't, some will still go out of the way to tunnel). Not unbeatable, just annoying.
The cascade effect is another matter. We agree the kill rate will probably drop a good deal (least if it hurts tunneling as much as people oh so dream), and something will change in response. Honestly we're hoping on perks changing or less pallets (keeping the mind game ones) to ease burdens.
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@Archol123 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3667089#Comment_3667089
I mean yelling, toxicity and background noises can easily be canceled out if you just mute them... At least the background noises are completely irrelevant with that, especially if we consider how good noise canceling is these days...
Idk mate, lotta ppl we know can have a racket going on and then there's Point 6.
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At this point there needs to be a pro con list...
Cons:
- Toxicity
- Language barriers
- People upset at being ignored (intentionally or not) and doing who knows what.
- Background noises distracting from in-game sounds
- Humans in general (ex: people purposely yelling)
- People opting to mute would be at the same disadvantage currently and have the problem of point 3
Pros:
- It directly bridges the gap of SWF using outside the game coms (coordination, call outs)
- Chance to make friends by chatting
....if we're missing things feel free to add on
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3667032#Comment_3667032
Oh OK, well thats quite a lot more than what I was suggesting. I don't believe all regression perks should turn off.
The reason I posted this topic is Pain Res and Pop are very common perks right now, and are perks that are used by pretty much all killers, regardless of charatcer, map or playstyle for the extra time they bring. I was bringing up these perks because they are the most popular perks right now, and kinda putting the feelers out to the community as to how they would feel about them being changed if they were to appear on the roadmap.
I think they are really good perks that keep certain weakers killers relevant and able to have some effective global pressure/mitigate their weak map traversal... the porblem is they are even better on killers that actually do have that map traversal.... and doing so, it has the effect that map traversal killers can go hard on slowdown, while still pressuing and tunneling a survivor as they come off hook, without much fear of survivors being able to complete all the the gens while they tunnel, they continue etting the value after a player is dead.
Honestly thinking we just see it differently. Because pain res and Grim Embrace (pop is another matter) are only for first hooks it's kinda the same for high mobility killers. I'm a failure at explaining our thoughts so bear with me. The high mobility tunneling will have major slowdown in odd times (fresh hook, boom, run around, unhook, go back, tunnel, hook, repeat from step 3 till dead, repeat from step 1). Only the most worked on gen is regressed while the others are stalled for 12ish seconds which everyone resumes working between step 1 and 9. Kinda depends on how quickly people go down but that can be a lot of time. Stacking 4 slowdowns is another mater where we might agree but as it seems to us that individually each perk is fine.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666874#Comment_3666874
OK, if we want to argue without reading anything or engaging with any of the points made:
To be pedantic, your ACTUAL objective, is not to kill survivors as fast as possible, it is to cause as much pain, fear and lost hope as possible in each trial. This is indicated by the way in which bloodpoints (and thus emblems) are awarded to you in the end game, and why if you kill all 4 survivors by hooking and sacrifcing them all after 1 chase with no unhooks, it is entirely possible you depip in iri rank. Your awards are given for getting as many chases as possible (optimally 4 per survivor), as many hits and wounds with your power as possible, and as many hooks as possible. Your actual points for kills are very low, losing out on approximately 5000 points overall per survivor you immediately kill, demonstrated perfectly by how low scoring Myers games tend to be with his executions.
Ergo your argument is invalid, because this change would actually encourage your objective.
There are plenty of people who are extremely biased and blanket ask for buffs and nerfs without any consideration to either side. Please do not insult me by lumping me into that camp. I do try to be unbiased and at the very least provide evidence for my arguments, and would appreciate being respected as such.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3666895#Comment_3666895
Is though really? Both Pain Res and GE only have 4 procs, that requires you to hook all 4 survivors, once you've done that, it's done it's work. If you've been really fast to tunnel someone out however (which lets face it a strong Blight, Nurse, Spirit, Pyramid Head really excel at), you're in a commanding lead already by virtue of a player being dead early. I did say the numbers are up for debate, perks could be buffed a little to compensate, but the overarching point is PR and GE have mechanisms to naturally discourage tunneling, which can be circumvented/undone by mobile killers who can still tunnel effectively, while still getting the full value out of the perks. Should you still be able to use their rewards while still tunneling a player to death?
If I'm honest Pop I think is fine, it's so popular because its a great perk, that also synergises with any kick perk like Trail of Torment, Nowhere To Hide, Call of Brine, Eruption... it just makes kicks better... I bring it up since it is the most popular perk right now, so it's worth being in the conversation, even if the conclusion is "Leave it alone".
We may have been miss understood, we ment all regression. From pain res to surge.
If we're really just going for these few perks then we'd say a numbers hit and not disabled. Losing full access to the perk, while sweetly karmatic for tunneling at the get go, is still to hefty to us as there are situations where "tunneling" is the smart move (examples: you can really only find one person, the unhooker farms and goes to super safe zone leaving the other at your lack of mercy, etc). If nothing else then could make it % based (wouldn't know what to do about changing Grim Embrace other than lengthen it based on gens, which is its own can of headache).
Otherwise the only thing that would keep them useful for all would be something like a rework of regression mechanics or the perks.
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We're not opposed to turning off regression perks when a survivor dies, but there's gonna need to be a trade off as well since that's a big downside, even accounting for the dead teammate.
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Second verse, same as the first. We enjoy the killer role baring some bs (stupid tiles, buckle up+ftp, the occasional toxic wannabe bullies).
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@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3665332#Comment_3665332
Alright, we removed a feature that I'd guess 95% of the means someone is intent on throwing the game or the game is already a minute away from being over.
I have clips of 4% when it's literally not possible to get off hook from a teamate just because of the game state, not due to poor teamates. I enjoyed those moments but they literally don't matter, the ability to 4% only servers as a detriment to the game and community.
Imagine for a moment that survivors could just kill each other for the lolz right? That'd be funny for 3 games with friends. But then you realize you lose everytime that happens even in a full party. A different scenario but the same result as someone giving up on hook.
The devs have spent too much time focusing on rng that at this point only serves to disrupt the real gameplay. Make everything consistent, the rng of tiles, survivor spawns and 4%s doesn nothing but swing the game instantly to one side so overwhelmingly that It's an instant loss.
Should we remove things because of the players? No. Fix or tweak sure but removing things because people can't be decent shouldn't be a thing. The 4% itself is not detrimental on its own.
If they don't matter then why bring it up?
We'd imagine that either everyone wises up or it happens enough that the devs tweak the mechanic (shocking) or everyone leaves. The difference is that a survivor is removing another survivor from the game, not themselves. The result is different because one person is removing the agency of another, this is probably more equivalent to the killer tunneling than swinging.
Tell us what is "the real gameplay". There's enough RNG here that it's effectively part of the gameplay. If things get consistent then things get predictable then things get boring really damn fast. Currently there's already a lot of consistency with how people play. [Think you might have triggered him Abit...] Add to that no, it's not instant loss one way or another. We don't deny it can swing a game one way or the other, but calling it an instant loss is false.
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Glad to know we've passed chaotic neutral to chaotic evil. We now have an excuse to be more aggressive
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It looooooooooks like maroon, buuuuuuuuuuuuuuut shaders make it perywinkle~
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mate, you can literally switch your entire loadout as survivor in a second by switching characters...
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Depends on whats burning ya out. From the look of it we got 2 recomendations: Don't take the match seriously or take a break.
Try new builds, use gimmicks, have a different goal other than "kill efficiently or else" or "must escape or else" and let go caring. Do something fun in game you would enjoy. With 4k hours by now you probably should know not to worry about 2-3 gens poping regardless.
Sometimes a breath of something different is whats needed.
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@KatsuhxP said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3665733#Comment_3665733
Welp dbd is the game where nobody reads perk-descriptions i guess xD
dont forget add ons~
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Other than people doing the usual bs (rampant tunneling, first down everyone quits, etc) its been fine for us. We do think the devs care about because it would be extremely stupid to think otherwise. We may not have as much stupid toys as before but overall its alot more balanced and some of the worst unfun things are weakened (face camping and 3 gen camping) so we're enjoying ourselves more (sans the previously mentioned people being ********).
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@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3664974#Comment_3664974
"The reality is that you cannot make someone play a match they don't want to, that isn't to justify it as people want out for all kinds of stupid reasons including no obvious reason at all."
This is correct at a base level but not informed. I have played league of legends for 11 years now. You leave the game? First strike in that regard is two weeks suspension. You afk? You get two chances within months or you get bare minimum two weeks. You troll and via stats plus reports get suspended for you guessed it two weeks minimum. You can make someone screw themselves for not playing the game. They always have the choice to leave just like league but it's possible to make repeats suffer for their actions. This notion in the dbd community has gone to far and is flat out wrong.
We kinda wana poke this too.
League is a "more competitive" or "serious" game (don't really know another way to describe). In dbd there are ways to screw around while still playing normally (red herring may intentionally or not screw over teammates, you can throw rocks at things to attract the killer, you can put yourself on the ground to try and heal, etc) while in league we cant think of anything that fits without screwing over the team (sans feeding the poro). Another thing is league is a much bigger game than dbd and can afford to be harsher with its punishments. How many people would stay here if their internet went out and got suspended for 2 weeks?
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@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3664973#Comment_3664973
Alright.
"Turning a loss on it's head" sure that can happen but realistically the chance is so low and such an uncommon use for it that it doesn't matter. It can cause excitement in a match but what happens most of the time regarding the 4%? You guessed it, leaving the game. The devs probably have the same idea as you, but the average player doesn't have inkling of your idea.
Perks:
Deli: Would work the same.
Slippery meat: just as outdated as the the mechanic itself.
Can't think of anything else.
Disregarding it outright would simply remove a feature (thats been here since atleast 2017) people can use and there are ways to increase it from 4% [had to do the math and its 32% with 6 tries at maximum]. Your of the opinion that it doesn't mater and thats fine, but your opinion isn't the only one that maters here since this affects everyone and we personally don't want things removed, especially when its because the players are the root cause and not the mechanic itself. There have been ways others have said to tweek it to not be abusable which is more what the devs should do than outright remove it, but thats our own opinion on that mater.
"Up the anti" increases luck by 12% and technically the upcoming "Wicked" uses the same method as deliverance unless changed.
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Probably want to define "valid argument" as someone else has already made a topic about the 4% swing with a whole list of reasons its in the game. This is just a different direction of dislike.
We don't deny that lately people have simply abused the mechanic but there are valid reasons its there such as swinging a match and turning what would be a loss on its head. It makes sure the match doesn't end until the survivors are actually dead and can cause some excitement in matches. There are also perks and offerings that turn this from (what should be) a last ditch effort into a semi-workable way to relieve pressure off the team.
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To be fair, the only really bad problem is the fact that most try to jump to toss the match. The successful 4% keeps the match going, having it gives a slim chance for survival from a horrible situation, a successful swing can turn a game around making the arrogant realize that the match is over when they actually die and not on hook. Look we're just repeating answers here, read (genuinely read) the more respectful comments as they have all the answers.
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During the lights out event me and a friend had a nurse at lerys. Sometime during the trial, we were walking trying to find a gen while talking about random things when out of nowhere I just hear him screaming and fall out of my chair. After resetting myself I see he's somehow on a basement hook. One interrogation later find out he screamed because the nurse blinked directly in font of him and he panicked and vaulted into the basement where the nurse promptly got free food. Found it hilarious especially since his screaming probably saved me~
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@Raccoon said:
As long as the killer's keyboard and mouse are intact, they are free to play however they want within the confines of the game's rules.
*sips brandy*
Another crazy question answered.
Truly, the hero of the forums
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3659779#Comment_3659779
That is precisely part of the reason the mechanic is poorly designed.
- It allows survivors a way to expedite to second hook to kill themselves and get out of the game avoiding the DC penalty and screwing over their team (something that should be bannable imo)
- At its best, the mechanic allows you to turn a game around, but its completely RNG. Remember, the killer is not an NPC, it is a real player. How do you think it feels on the receiving end to be doing really really well and having "won" a game, only for someone to 4% and turn it around. The 4% had 0 skill involved, it was complete RNG, and the game decided to just hand you a win.
It doesn't feel good even in its best situations.
While we agree with that first bit, we don't see that second part as a flaw. We've been on that end and baring the usual [insert whatever], it's not a big deal. Add the fact that a lot of this game has RNG factors, it seems to fit right in.
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Because it can completely swing the game.
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Can you please explain how having it would help? Probably list the pros and cons too.
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While invocations are a workable idea, they really do need to be careful especially when everyone has different ideas of high reward and high cost.
Personally I want one that lights all the totems on the map with the boons I have equipped.
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@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3657198#Comment_3657198
Nah, that's a reply. That's a conversation. You provided anything just now.
Does a chase power mean something usable in chase or is it just stuff like blight, oni, wesker and billy that prevents W? Is there less than 10 chase powers in the game?
What was the point of you replying to me here? I see none.
Pig can do better at certain tiles compared to just going for m1 when using power, that's a chase power. Preventing W is exclusive to very few killers.
If you force a survivor to a tile you can go for ambush, if they W via the use of your head set you can use the extremely useful ctrl button to uncrouch at a rapid pace and then catch them hopefully before another tile(likely these days). You've just assumed that a survivor wing for a tile means they always get to the next one which is just incorrect.
You still get the same slowdown, you have a better power for chase, you just can't do something requiring 3 cells of the brain. Check those time stamps in my previous comments, reply for real or don't reply to me at all thanks!
I didn't realize you had no intent for conversation.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3657231#Comment_3657231
Chase power: has benefit at least at certain tiles or most tiles over just m1ing.
Video: it's not an otz video, it's a scott jund video and I provided time stamps for real examples of pigs power being useful. I wrote my entire comment before that video before viewing it.
Cool. That's your definition. And by that definition we can not think of any killer that doesn't have a chase power then. GF has benefits at large wall tiles and ones that break sight, Trapper can completely lethalize a loop which is better at certain times like garden of joy, merchant has her drones, pinhead has chains that can screw up the average survivor timing, etc.
Gonna be honest here, the three of us detest the big name streamers. Can we assume that the video in question shows that pigs ambush can be used in chase (which none of us denied) to provide evidence as to it being a chase power (by your definition)?
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Thing is, survivors can still last second swap to a whole new thing while the killer is locked aside from perks, add ons, and cosmetics. This renders seeing items and countering them a gamble before the match starts.
Next if the survivors see what killer it is, they will likely (very very likely) lobby shop. This is obviously bad.
Last it fits the theme of the entity's hunter prepping to hunt the prey.
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@MikeStev said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/406156/its-about-the-community-as-a-whole
From the beginning, this game was not a competitive game, but Developer continued to promote this game as a competitive game, just look at 'community cup', SBMM, MMR, Balance here balance there.
dbd players are becoming more competitive, yes blame the developer.
We've already once gone out of our way to say it's on the players not the devs...
Besides, SBMM and MMR don't make the game competitive, it just tries to find fair matches.
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We agree that saying it's one sided or the other is silly as there's enough variables and RNG to make it swing one way or another. It's also dumb to us (but amusing) seeing everyone go rabid at almost any change.
That said everyone is different so we can't really fault anyone. Just cause we don't think it's a competitive game doesn't mean someone else won't. Having fun for one isn't the same as another, and yada yada. We can't force people to think differently {we'll sure as hell try and persuade them though}.
And as much as it stretches our belief, we do think a majority are saying what they think is best for the game (whether it would be depends) and don't want it to crash and burn.
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Ya know, I thought I was hallucinating the double basement in lerys. Good to know.
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@Sava18 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3656051#Comment_3656051
Regardless of how strong it is even though it got a significant buff, pig does have a chase power. Your simply wrong. If you can force survivors to play differently then it's a chase power. I've watched my pig main friend play on the ptb several times now, Almost any filler tile it's more beneficial to use power over m1. Even tiles like LT and Short walls are extremely playable using pigs power. The only major generic tile that it doesn't work at is a long wall and just BARELY. Pig can literally triple back moonrush the tile side of a short wall now. The pig is using it wrong or at the wrong place if they don't atleast have the chance to get a hit at most tiles. Pig ambush at a lot of tiles is simply a better version of blights moon rush, straight up. While that blight tech isn't the best it's still viable and pigs is better.
Saying she doesn't have a chase power, idk skill issue. The extra distance she's got if she uses the power at the correct distance means Wing from a tile always results in a hit. She is no a tier killer, not even close but she does have a chase power.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3656077#Comment_3656077
So that means you think she has 0 chase power? That's just not true.
I saw this vid in my feed before starting to reply here, I decided to watch it before posting my reply. 8:30 is the perfect example of this killer having chase power. There is not a single safe option for that adam on a relatively strong McMillan filler tile with the pallet dropped, It's actually the second past Mac filler. 13:00 is the strong Mac filler tile. BLIGHT can barely play this tile. You can point out all the misplays in this video on the survivors part but if you have any interest in discussion you would realize at least some of the plays on the survivors part are actually the best course and they still lost to ambush.
First: our comment has zero words regarding any of our thoughts on the matter.
Second: your going to need to define chase power as like our comment said, everyone is coming up with new definitions for anything.
Third: can be used in chase doesn't make it a chase power. This is going by our definition.
Fourth: we will click the link only if you promise it's not another damn otz video or something. Fell for that once, not again.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3655644#Comment_3655644
gonna say this because it's getting really annoying to keep seeing it...
PIG DOES NOT HAVE A CHASE POWER!
it's a surprise attack that has a few applications during chase. but it's not a chase power. you are not supposed to use it in chase, we just found a way where it works to mindgame some loops, if the survivor doesn't leave the loop running the opposite direction when you start doing it.
you can use it just as much as you can use trapper's power during a chase. does trapper have a chase power now?
is "chase power" such a broad and therefore useless term that it loses any meaning?
With how people keep coming up with new definitions of anything, we're going to say yeah it's lost meaning.
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@FridayNightPizza said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3655172#Comment_3655172
Isn't Larry Singularity though?
realy? we've always called him bender....maybe thats why they keep trying to kill us
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....your not wrong....
We vote larry though, everyone loves larry~
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3655093#Comment_3655093
Yes or no, was pig nerfed?
Yes and no.
So if your going to dodge our yes or no question some more please atleast be amusing about it.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3655079#Comment_3655079
I’ll just play a killer that has actual antiloop. Contrary to popular belief, the best players don’t handicap themselves. They use the strongest stuff in the game. If you want to use that logic, then survivors shouldn’t be allowed to stack instaheals or BNPs, or all run adrenaline etc… It’s hard to understand how you think that way only when it applies to killer. Apparently it’s fine for survivors to use strong tactics, but not the other way around
So that answer is no
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3655051#Comment_3655051
I don’t see how it’s an issue when I’m successful with it. Maybe the issue is that you and other people in this thread want killers to be played in a specific way, that you approve of. Luckily, I don’t play by the survivor rule book.
So then the question is: can you be successful without it?
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3653484#Comment_3653484
3 Gen cap is pretty much useless since it will almost never if ever reached - but they removed gen taping and added another 2,5% on regression per kick. I am not saying this is incredible aweful because in my opinion, Gen tap had to be fixed in one way or anther, but calling 7.5 (was it 7.5?) a survivor buff is not correct. Hillbilly buff also was part of that patch. GE was buffed. Overall, besides the unnecessay mini STBFL nerf, clearly a killer favoured patch.
You asked specifically "Or brought something significant to the table" which we feel this fits.
That said, what would the general population want for survivors? And how would you implement it?
Many maps have balanced (success varies), the perks that need buffed are ones almost no one ever uses and probably won't use anyway less their at the power of or greater than meta perks of which theres 5 different flavors for almost every situation, what solo q buff to add that some survivor (or killer but thinking survivor matters more here) won't whine about saying not enough.
@MikaelaWantsYourBoon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3653484#Comment_3653484
It's just fixed the hostage issue and it also ended with killer buff. Now killers who was never holding 3-gen is getting more value from kicks. But it did not add anything for survivors.
So i don't know how this is excited for survivors? Killers got Billy, Chucky and GE with last patches. What survivors got? Nothing.
Oh , i forgot about garbage Alan Wake perks.
Sooooooooooo sorry, we didn't realize that the rampant 3 gen knights and merchants and others plaguing games weren't a problem~ Lets remove it then since it doesn't add anything meaningful. The above questions also needs asked: what would the general population want for survivors and how to implement it?
We also want to point out in the past survivors ran rampant with alot of BS for a long time, if the killers can wait literal years for stuff for them, so can survivors.
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In defense of op, it's not too bad playing with the sound off if your careful.
Sounds on, though whether or not music is blaring out depends on the day.
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3653376#Comment_3653376
I am also asking you specificly now because this statement is coming frequently when killer get buff after buff after buff and survivor comlain: "Not every patch is going to be what you want."
Where are those patches in the recent years that buffed survivor? Or brought something significant to the table?
The only thing i can think off were boon totems, but they are so incredibly weak, nobody ever plays them unfortunatly.
So, care to answer?
The anti 3 gen brought something significant to the table.
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The wiki says doors only so we're assuming no.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3653406#Comment_3653406
Yes, unfortunately we cannot expect either of those systems to work flawlessly.
But when comparing the two I can definitely say I had a better experience with Ranks than with MMR.
Honestly we were the opposite until it felt like we're doing community service fighting the backfill.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3653232#Comment_3653232
I would gladly accept them back.
Don't get me wrong, the Ranks weren't perfect. Sometimes the system failed, it happened.
However, in my experience they were way better than anything MMR has to offer and I'd like to see them again.
To be fair, with how screwed up it currently is (we swear we keep getting backfill lobbies) it's currently about the same as rainbow ranks.
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@WolfyWood said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3653301#Comment_3653301
If survivor is going to be a free for all then why are teammates required to escape? Why do the altruistic players have to lose because of selfish players who sandbag?
This is not a fair system and creates toxicity and overall displeasure with game quality.
The devs are also explicitly responsible for this environment for not enforcing gameplay and intentionally not creating a ranked mode (which mobile dbd has) and matching everyone together.
If the game is going to be 1v1v1v1 then you be able to escape as the one without anyone else being involved.
Texas Chainsaw Massacre did this perfectly with how survivors work in that game. Working with teammates should always be the best option, but in that game if you play well you can escape by yourself without having to wait for the other players to die.
1 teammates are only required for the doors. You don't need teammates to actually escape a trial. It's the nature of the game. In addition while it's nice to help others some don't care and sometimes the selfish play is the way to survive.
2 it allows toxicity, just like other games, but it doesn't create it. People create toxicity. What you consider fair is different than what we do, and what we consider fair is different from player 789, etc. Claiming "fair" isn't going to move us (especially when we've seen what others consider "fair").
3 they're responsible for the environment, not the people. We don't want to be told how to play, and can imagine others think so. If they started railroading, there'd be a cascade of effects that would need addressed to the point where it'd be a different game.
We're not going back into why we think splitting the que wouldn't work as you'd think for the topic of making solo better.
4 look at 1. You can attempt to escape all your own without teammates helping, just more likely to die.
5 we agree working together should be the best option (and currently kinda is for most normal matches) but we don't see much difference between the 2. Playing well allows survivors in both games to escape. Tell us, if one survivor didn't do much but hide in Texas but the other 3 did enough to make an opening to escape and the 4th got out, what is the difference if 1 survivor did nothing here but the other 3 carried? Or if 1 in Texas waiting for their team to die to try and stealth an escape and 1 here waiting for the team to die to escape hatch or doors? The only difference is one is easier due to the number of killers on the map.
6 think we've veired off the topic Abit.
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@WolfyWood said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3653256#Comment_3653256
They're the ones that set the standards for player behavior. They make the rules and put in the incentives/punishments to playing in certain ways.
The solo-queue Feng is not crouched in the corner for no reason. She's crouched in the corner because the game allows her to and does nothing to prevent her from doing so aside from maybe dying more than normal.
League of Legends and Dota 2 have way bigger playerbases which are more toxic yet they've managed to mostly reign in people who don't cooperate with their teams. There is no secret. Direct statements and punishments do far more than slaps on the wrists and "carrot on a stick" based rule systems.
So what you want is for BHVR telling people how to play correct? If so we're in disagreement. We like the freedom to an extent and player agency is something that's been in the game for as long as we can remember.
In addition, currently it's still the players making solo miserable for players. Whether the killer or other survivors, their behavior is not to be laid at the devs feet, that's lazy. Sure the devs can and should curb the extreme ends, but their job isn't too babysit the players.
To cut into that comparison to league, league actually has 2 teams, you all win or sink together. DBD is technically a 1 vs (1 v 1 v 1 v 1). Survivors are technically working towards a common goal but only needs to focus on them. They don't win or sink together.
And maybe that feng is in a corner for a good reason of "stay the f away from the (insert killer description) trying to kill her".
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@WolfyWood said:
Well first they can start by picking a side. Lots of the frustration in this game is that the devs are so indecisive on committing to making this game competitive or casual. It truly cannot be both.
If the game is casual:
1v1 should be the focus of Balance and game should revolve around hooks and chases. There should also be alternate ways of escape that reward survivors for good solo play and killers should be more rewarded for spreading pressure.
If the game is competitive:
Then BHVR needs to enforce teamplay and selfish survivor gameplay needs to be removed from perks and items and punished heavily. Pipping needs to be reworked entirely and MMR should be based on grades. There should also be a ranked game mode with more restrictions to make it more fair for both sides (SWF being regulated comes to mind.) You cannot keep throwing players of all skill brackets into the same queue and expecting it to work out.
Anyone saying that it's the player's fault that solo-queue sucks is just being lazy and refusing to hold BHVR accountable. It's entirely their fault solo queue is in such a state and they definitely could fix it with proper financial incentive.
Again this is the problem with having no competition in the industry. There's no where else to go for a DBD fix so most players are willing to deal with the negligence.
We really gotta ask how BHVR is at fault for the BHVR of the players?
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From the ideas we've seen something along the lines of more emotes (or at max a "chat wheel" though we dislike the idea) would help. The above idea of upgraded items to would probably work the quickest and easiest to test.
That said there's no solution to the randomness of teammates. You can't really force people to play how you want not control how skilled they are. MMR works (in a sense that it does what it's supposed to do) but gets thrown through the window when people dodge causing its own issues. At this point we're believe a better way to teach people how to play would be a good start.
@jesterkind said:
The first thing we definitely need to acknowledge is what we are trying to fix. BHVR would have to be the single best game developers on the planet and across history in order to fix problems that are just inherent to queuing up solo in team games, and I don't think it's too cruel to say that they just aren't that good.
So, what do I mean by that? I mean that you're always going to run the risk of losing because your teammates make stupid decisions (or because they're memeing, or they're drunk, or they're distracted, whatever the reason), and there's no way of guaranteeing that teammates who are of the same skill level as you will have the same priorities or understanding of what they should be doing. These things cannot be fixed and it's just how solo queue works in every game that has a solo queue.
With that in mind, I'd rather look at the problems that are DBD specific. Right now, in my view, that basically boils down to one thing: Information exchange. Not communication, that's a different concept, I'm talking about the specific information SWF have access to that solo queue don't which makes a meaningful difference to quality of experience. That distinction is necessary, because it wouldn't easily be possible to give solo queue all the information that gives SWF an advantage and it might not even really be a good idea to begin with.
Long preamble, we get it, skip to the conclusion! So, I'd suggest the following:
- Survivors can see their teammate's perks in the loading screen, and mid-match in the "pause" menu. Note that it wouldn't be a good idea to let people see perk builds in the lobby, that would escalate lobby dodging.
- Partial basekit Kindred effect. Partial both because it shouldn't include the killer aura, and because the survivor auras should only last for somewhere between five and ten seconds. Enough to not be fully flying blind without Kindred, but also not too much to render Kindred obsolete.
- Possibly a ping system. I'm on the fence about this because it'd be by far the most tonally different change to make, but simple phrases like "I'm going for the unhook" would really substantially improve solo queue when survivors feel inclined to use them. Since that last part isn't guaranteed, this should never be the only change.
- Carefully curated specific perk/item buffs that increase teammate information without granting any extra to SWF. Examples: Aftercare losing its deactivation trigger, and the Key item gaining the ability to read survivor auras by default. If solo queue players bring these perks/items, they should feel more substantial.
- Last and mostly least, generic and non-specific improvements to matchmaking and backfill, etc etc. None of us have the data to be specific about this point but it does matter.
TL;DR, info gain is the main DBD-specific issue with solo queue and is where I'd look for solo queue improvements.
In our defense, you've never really played until you play drunk by daylight