Rulebreaker
Rulebreaker
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@GeneralV said:
And the thread became another "Us vs Them", of course. All because of a mechanic that won't affect regular trials.
I know this pill is hard to swallow, but killer has been fully playable and winnable for years. This new mechanic is not going to change that.
Shush, don't throw reality in here, that's heretical.
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3627562#Comment_3627562
no.
I said this can lead to a situation where the survivors can drastically prolong the game way more than it needs to because that may actually prove advantageous.
I did. and correct, I have not said what the solution is. because something needs to be recognized as an issue before solutions are needed.
I gave a specific scenario. because that is how thought experiments work. on the given scenarios. and their answer does nothing for it.
please, do say EXACTLY what you think this favoritism is. because I see an issue that happens to affect killers, am I not allowed to talk about it then? Do you think I don't talk about survivor issues aswell?
and the advice is bad given the situation they are in. taking a chase means a race between getting 1 down and the survivors finising the gens.
did you?
Seeeeems like you think it's unfair as we read the post to Peanits. We also see you pointing out that scenario and going to poke it. Mainly with: it's different from a killer camping a 3 gen because the killers objective isn't the gens, it's the prey. The prey need to focus on the gens. This solution eventually forces the killer to do their damn....job? and chase the prey (which is what we translated from what pulsar said in so many words). A killer camping a 3 gen isn't really doing their "job" while survivors making then working on it are slowly progressing theirs. If it would prove to be an advantage then maybe the killer should try to prevent it by trying to kill them? Two of the best regression events are rewarded via hooks and a third with a down so you don't usually need that many events on a gen before someone should be dead.
Weird how a lot of ppl focus more on keeping gens down than killing when playing the killer.
We'll also add that now both sides will need need to think about a 3gen as now the killers also need to measure if it's worth having those gens or not while a 3 gen is still a dangerous thing for near dead survivors.
Fair, but we personally disagree. We do wish to ask that since you claim there's an easy solution what is stopping you from saying it?
Their answer answered what they think you should do (with an accusation thrown in but it DOES answer). You may not like it but it's there and by all technicalities we see, it ain't exactly wrong.
Favoritism is favoring one side over all others. And from what we've seen it doesn't seem incorrect. We could be wrong but we don't see it in here.
Who the heck said your not allowed? Your allowed just as everyone else is allowed to disagree, accuse, or say whatever with the forum rules.
Now keep up with us here but in your scenario you never specified the number of survivors so we're going to assume 4. 4 still alive and kicking with 1 gen. In that situation, the killer is left with effectively 2 options. Stay and probably lose the gen without making headway, or chase and probably lose the gen and make progress? To us seems the chase advice is good, but who knows ~ If the killer was playing normal, they'd probably burnt through survivor resources, especially around the 3 gen they were taking so long to do, making a chase seem more and more enticing.
Sooo long answer short. Nope~ he got everything half asleep.
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A phyrexian from MTG would be a very plesant surprise for us. They make the coolest death zombie machines we've seen in a long while.
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We're just using the notes so if were missing anything please tell.
1: Maps are a mixed bag. We feel Nostromo is actually pretty fair and done well, then theres Garden of Joy's mansion, then current borgo which has a few good loops clumped together with deadzones at the rest. The price for dynamic veriety is that some maps will favor one role over the other, otherwise maps would be mostly the same. Maps should have some consideration for killers with no full anti loop power and most anti loop powers can be played around. Only fix is reworking the maps again and again.
2: SBMM does't do ****. Its innocent and trying to find a fair game. Its not a true ranking system, its a "ok you don't belong with this group of players because that match was to easy, try this". Its the freaking players who are trying to suck the fun outa the game. To many take this game like its their own lives on the line. Its the players who tunnel at the get go, its the players who will try to try to make others miserable, its the players who keep doing things that make the game less fun. SBMM is trying to do its job, and while we all can argue if it does it well or not, its not throwing fun out the window. How to fix people (nicely) we don't know.
3: ...we're calling bull. Before we go ranting about "guaranteed hits" we'd like a definition to work with. We do however know how to loop a knight and artist for decent periods (map provided as we can only do so much with nothin to work with). We're also probably gona get burned for this but we liked old legion (baring the moonwalking). Survivors couldn't sit behind a pallet or window to loop, they had to duck, dodge, weave, and keep moving or keep getting stabbed (which we thoroughly enjoyed [he has issues]) with the most bs being the moonwalking and arguably frank's mixtape (admittedly abit biased here).
4: While its not just design problems, the only thing we disagree here is its not the worst its been in our opinion, that was when unbreakable and ds gave effective semi invulnerability. Least now they don't have that comfort net and need to worry about the killers abit. Any solution we can think of would lead to outcries of "killer main" so we'd like to keep our traps shut.
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We really don't think its needed but we have a counter offer of survivors being able to see the camping bar. To us this seems more reasonable with the added bonus of working against stealth killers (which we'd assume a basekit kindred wouldn't). Its most of the information a swf would have and discourages camping close (survivors would see how fast the bar is moving could tell how close and often the killer is).
@Sunbreaker7 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3628136#Comment_3628136
Sigh. If they know that their aura is visible and know everyone is rather working on gens, it forces them to go for those gens rather than wait that people will come try to save the survivor from hook. That is their option.
Lets paint this scenario: All gens done, 1 dead, and a survivor is hooked near a door. Reasonable to assume the killer would't leave that (we think this is more of the "don't have a better option" they were speaking of). If basekit kindred went through and see that killer hiding close by (or trying to), every smart survivor will just immediately bail instead of trying to save.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3627540#Comment_3627540
If you think taking a chase is getting good, we may have found out why there a 4 Survivors left on a full map.
We're getting the impression that most the time killers will play on the offensive only when trying to hard tunnel someone...
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Huntress, Doc, Spirit for our votes.
Out in who knows where solving the mystery of missing children with that humming in the woods hunting you down.
Doc gets a evil within type deal with torture and brainwashing.
I'm quoting him here "Who doesn't like a good ghost story?"
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3627540#Comment_3627540
in this comment. not on the previous one.
there is context. try to keep up
From what we've gathered your feeling that no matter how much you messed up or the survivors out play you to the point that you proc the 8 limit in a drawn out game, this solution is unfair (presumably to the killer). Further more you claim there's a "simple solution to this" yet never said what it is (as far as I have bothered to look back).
What pulsar basically said is killers can chase and you pointing out an unlikely scenario and spitting favoritism (which so far seem correct).
You then point to the actual topic which pulsar then points out what they think and some advice that boils down to what? Take a chase.
I'm half asleep so I'm genuinely asking, Miss something here?
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Leaving a door at 99 is still a thing
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@Alice_pbg said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3626404#Comment_3626404
you said to git gud... just added many words to it.
....mate he literally just said to take a chase...
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3626829#Comment_3626829
It's not 5% to make progress, it's 5% to stop regression. You're not seeing the bar stand still for a few seconds, it's that if you get off it too soon, it'll start regressing again.
Since ruin already does that... the 5% thing isn't really gonna change anything with ruin.
Cut us some slack, was half asleep 😭 (we edited it).
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It's definitely worth trying. It doesn't proc the 8 regression limit, still works with any non kick regression, you only have to chase people off the gen for regression to start (assuming we read everything correctly).
The only thing is that it's tied to a totem, which leaves it to RNG if it's broken in the first 30 seconds.
Edit: typing on the phone is hard asleep and didn't read everything correctly
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It varies like the people who post them. Some are cringe worthy, some are odd or creative, some we just flat out disagree with, others irrational. Atleast most are amusing and give us a more "standard" view on other players, which is why we poke our nose in every now and again.
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Welp if you want us to be specific: we are sure that in the time we've spent playing this game the players only see messages typed during the time they entered the score screen and nothing before then. If the messages are still in the log and are hidden we don't know.
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As far as we are aware no. They start seeing things typed in chat from the moment they enter the end game screen, not before.
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Anyone know where we can see the perk list?
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@Green_Sliche said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3625037#Comment_3625037
Never had to deal with these guys in your life?
3 ''entertain'' killer, 1 does repair the gen. You go for that one, someone out of those 3 starts repairing gens.
We tend to see slugs at that point
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3623952#Comment_3623952
Okay i can do that:
Myers is in the absolute top, and also alone because he is without a doubt the most important licence we ever got. Without him, there is a good chance, this game would have actually died long time ago. Myers brought DBD back on the map with a big Blast.
A Tier killers have something very significant to them: Demogorgon was the first Netflix / TV series liecence and it is an insanly popular one. Freddy is then 2nd of the great 3 and therefore very important and beloved. PH was the first character from another video game frenchise - and probably one, if not the most iconic we have in horror.
Everything below that are still great characters and good licences, but not nearly as imporant as the others above.
D Tier is for Sadako. If i ask any person, also horror fans what her name is, most would not even know. She is a cool license, like any licence is, but not very big and important overall. Wesker is 2nd Resident Evil character. Nice to have, but really nowhere near as important as the others above. He is easily changeable for many others characters, even from that game.
In that case:
We'd move nemi and wesker up as that was a more widely known icon and wesker had an impact of adding another very commonly seen killer.
We agree placing Freddy there but more for the reason that he added something extremely unique to the game, especially at the time. If not a good reason then he'd follow the below logic.
Pig, bubba, and Xeno would all be in the same category (we can't agree where but we agree together) as they're all horror icons, but don't add any serious impact (mostly, dout any general horror fans will recognize Amanda on the spot, but many would recognize the beartraps or Billy on a box).
We can agree not many will know Sadako by name but many horror fans would probably recognize her as the "long haired ghost girl". Make of that as ya will.
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We would like a definition of important please as in our eyes each is important.
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Well, didn't actually think about being the killer here, now we feel dumb...
Maul: Putting a survivor into the injured state during bloodlust inflicts deep wounds. Gain bloodlust 3/4/5 seconds faster when chasing the obsession.
Feral Instincts: Whenever you hook a survivor this perk activates. Press the active ability button to become undetectable for 10/20/30 seconds and reveal all survivors within 16/24/32 meters for 3 seconds with killer instinct. The perk deactivates.
Sadistic Glee: Whenever you put a survivor into the injured state this perk gains a token. At 6/5/4 tokens survivors suffer from the exposed status. Gain 2 tokens if you injured the Obsession. Loose all tokens when a survivor is put into the dying state.
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@Peanits said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3623840#Comment_3623840
I can confirm that regression from missed skill checks, including those caused by Perks, are not considered regression events. That progress loss is caused by the Survivor missing, not the Killer.
Thx for confirming
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... logic says yep.
Did not think about that...hu...
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Honestly we think they did rather well here. Since it's also coming with the gen changes, it's gets a bonus buff.
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@Krazzik said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3623589#Comment_3623589
Peanits mentioned earlier that a survivor missing a skill check ISN'T counted as a regression event, so 'difficult skillcheck builds' are unaffected.
Just paranoid that because it's FROM a perk it'll trigger. Intentionally or not.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3623757#Comment_3623757
True, but most of the Regression in a 3-Gen is due to kicks, because Killers dont really down Survivors in the 3-Gen, since they run away.
But yeah, some instances of Regression could have already been used up by Surge or Pain Res before.
We're just playing devil's advocate here but most times we (and smart teammates) will actively look for a 3 gen and try to stop it early. The regression 7/10 times goes to one of the 3 gens.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
You have 8 Kicks per Gen, which are a total of 40% progress lost. This is without any further Regression (Survivors need to repair the Gens for 5% as well to stop them regressing) or any Regression due to Perks.
This should usually be enough to progress the game as Killer, unless you just want to guard the 3-Gen.
And, to be fair, even IF the Survivors caused the 3-Gen, at some point, both sides have to progress the game. So even if it is the Survivors fault, they have to try to repair the remaining Gen. And even if it is the Survivors fault, the Killer has to chase a Survivor at this point.
But dont worry, since the Survivors have to repair the Gen now for a few seconds, 3-Gens might not even be that much affected, since you dont need to kick them again if the Survivors were chased away from the Gen fast enough.
We're pretty sure it's not 8 kicks but 8 burst regression (like 8 procs of surge)
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@GeneralV said:
I'm surprised everyone here came up with survivor perks. Because being a survivor means you have to endure an insane amount of pain every single trial (seriously, can you imagine how much it would hurt to be hooked? Chainsawed?).
I wouldn't want to go through that.
This poll had an interesting discussion about this topic:
To be fair, we think survivors get super durability (seriously, they can survive being sawed, stabbed/clawed repeatedly, and some can feel nice and healthy by being pulled off a hook)
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Keen Senses: when not in chase, whenever a crow is started or another survivor screams or does a rushed action within 8/16/24 meters you, get a loud noise notification. Cooldown of 20 seconds between notifications.
Do it yourself: gain a 3/4/5% bonus to repair speed when working on a gen alone and no other survivors are currently hooked.
Dead Beat: Whenever another survivor dies this perk activates. The next time you stun the killer, you make no noise and the killer hears their chase music for 4/5/6 seconds. For each unfinished generator, the effects last another 4/5/6 seconds. The perk deactivates.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3623543#Comment_3623543
The way I understand it is that only perks which take the percentage off "instantly" affect this new mechanic. So, Pop and Pain Res would, as would a dry gen kick without perks, but something like Ruin or Oppression that just starts the generator regressing over time won't.
We do have a question on that though: does the survivors missing the skill check from oppression count as its part of the perk (similar to huntress lullaby as that adds bonus regression to missed checks)
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3622506#Comment_3622506
You're acting as if toxicity in VC happens every game, it really doesn't. Hell even across all 4 games the amount of "chill" people HEAVILY outweigh the amount of toxic ones. And no, I don't count those who simply go "gg ez" in the chat after a games done.
Some one throwing just because their team isnt communicating with them is something I've never seen in my 5 years of playing For Honor, or the entirety of my time playing Overwatch, which is since OW2 came out. Apex Legends is quite literally the occasional "Wraith cracked" , "Mirage 1HP" , "Gonna pop my ult".
The positives outweigh the negatives. The biggest one being better communication with Crossplay SWF's. And once again, if some people don't like VC, they can turn it off and their experience remains the exact same as before.
We're aware it does not happen every game, that said we've seen that the toxic ones heavily outweigh the chill ones. And yes, "gg ez" does not count as toxic. We've seen everything we've mentioned (which annoys us if you haven't) which is why we don't see it going well (especially with this player base).
Please list all the positives and negatives.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3622048#Comment_3622048
So then show who's in VC or not, pretty sure this is something Overwatch has, and For Honor has it as well. You can also block individual people if theyre being toxic
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3622153#Comment_3622153
99% of times some one uses VC its not to be toxic. Apex, For Honor and Overwatch are all games Ive played and most people are pretty chill. If some one starts talkin ######### I either block em or if Im feeling spicy that day well...
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3622180#Comment_3622180
Dont see how this would stop Solo Q improvements as they themselves have dont think communication is the main issue, but rather not knowing the intentions of others. Theres nothing stopping them from also adding new elements to the UI (which we already know are in the works and have been tested)
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3622226#Comment_3622226
A chat wheel is some thing thatd be great for the game and honestly Id prefer this over VC, Ive seen more toxicity with chat wheels than VC.
And if people can't handle others not using it? We predict scenarios happening like lobby dodging to find that "perfect" squad or tossing the game on purpose for the "reasoning" of not listening to them despite the fact they know no ones listening (been tunneled and camped a few times for the user name "Rulebreaker" before so this isnt as outlandish as we'd like). We're unsure of how well blocking works in dbd, but pretty sure there'd be a massive increase of blocks and reports should voice chat be added.
What it boils down to for us is theres more negatives than positives and that the devs would have to put in major work for something that would ultimately hurt more than help.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3622293#Comment_3622293
Pulling multiple people into the Dream World because the OoO user revealed their location at the very start of the trial was absolutely priceless.
We had a different entertainment as whenever we'd see a sleeping survivor go to the object, they'd usually run so we'd just see this little conga line of survivors chasing the object.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3622290#Comment_3622290
Laughs in Freddy who used to be partially immune to Object of Obsession.
Thats why he was our favorite until they changed him.
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@GannTM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3622263#Comment_3622263
What’s wrong with object? No one ever runs that perk anymore and is sometimes a detriment to put on.
Causes flashbacks of memories that trigger extreme violence resulting in bad times for all. Rage as in however much you love or loved spirit multiplied by 3.
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@GannTM said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3621669#Comment_3621669
Object as in object of obsession?
Yep....is there another Object? Gold? SHINYS?! (maybe playing too much payday lately)
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... while we agree, hoooow are you getting 4 bots repeatedly? What the blazes are you doing?
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@Shroompy said:
Like I understand not wanting voice chat in a game because you want to avoid toxicity, but to this day I have not seen a game where disabling VC wasn't an option.
Its just as dumb as people who complain about the endgame chat. Don't like it? just turn it off. Plain and simple.
There's also the problem of people's reactions to being ignored. Unlike turning off endgame chat, which is endgame, this would (assumingly) be during trials.
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We're more of the opinion that older chapters (that aren't licensed) should be discounted for shards (like ace).
We maybe biased as we started playing round Doc's release, but all players (killers and survivors) should learn to not rely on anything. We've seen a disturbing increase in reliance of perks than any skills from either side. We had delt with old ruin and doc when new and from that we learned to hit DAMN hard skill checks, totem spots, how to run semi well (couldn't really hide from a doc, especially as a newbie) all without relying on perks.
We then get into the blindness effect and as we're seeing atleast, windows is HEAVILY affecting how survivors run already. Blindness turns alot of people into potatoes for us to fry, what would happen to newer players?
We maybe rambling Abit but we want people to be able to play well without having to lean on perks.
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None of the above
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@Quizzy said:
Nah. But im willing to trade all exhaustion perks for regression perks being taken away. But im sure killers wouldnt want that
We'll accept if you throw in Object too
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The most hate one of us got was from Lightborn.
A swf squad (didnt truly know till the end but...->) last second swapped to 4 clickers while we had it on. After the match they tried to say sooooo many things to the point where we were dying laughing.
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@Ghoste said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3621539#Comment_3621539
I mean that Nurse ignores pallets and vaults, which are the only defenses Survivors have.
Thats not rules though~
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3621533#Comment_3621533
But again, a not insignificant number of players are UNABLE TO PLAY KILLER DUE TO ACCESSIBILITY ISSUES.
Even then, why should I be required to grind out survivor outfits I will never use just to get the killer outfits that I do want, or vice versa? Even worse for killers that you may not even own or desire to purchase.
To note, I am a player who DOES play both sides, so it doesn't matter to me personally, but I have empathy and compassion for my fellow players, especially those with accessibility issues regarding first person games, and so I will always hate this new thing where survivor cosmetics are locked behind killer gameplay.
Didn't know about the post below the one we were tagged in
While accessibility issues are a thing (and to our knowledge being slowly addressed) and its nice that you have some compassion (which is lacking lately), we have much less empathy who solely focus on one side (we play both as well so we have no real stake in this either). Setting aside our apathy, people should be required to grind the other side so they know what its like playing on the killer's screen. This could make them better as survivors and spread that empathy around knowing what the average (or new) killer goes through. This is our two cents on the matter and to each their own.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3621539#Comment_3621539
Nurse is a hacker...
...suppose we deserved that one but in our defence we're gettin sick of hearing that.
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@Ghoste said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3621374#Comment_3621374
I mean, Nurse is absolutely a relic of the past. She breaks the rules of the game.
This is off topic but can you explain the "rules" of the game to us.
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@AbsolutGrndZer0 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3621071#Comment_3621071
Even if you only play survivor, there is no way to get all the survivor cosmetics without finishing the event on both sides. So even if you never once play killer with the cosmetics you earned, you still have to buy them to get the outfit head for Jeff, a survivor. That's the complaint, and even as a player of both sides, I see the OP's point and I agree with them. It's lame they way they do it now.
@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3621126#Comment_3621126
See that's a bit better to complain about, but still kinda silly. If we were to take a random (and probably incorrect) guess, the reason is so survivors learn what it's LIKE to play killer and maybe something like empathy. If you want that cosmetic, your going to work for it.
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@Sunbreaker7 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3621371#Comment_3621371
Denying that certain things are not relics of the past is just as much naive. You do know and most likely agree that many perks now balanced were once extremely broken and needed the upgrade, so these certain perks could be called relics of the past, had they been left untouched and still present in their original form.
You can of course make any crazy example, but at the end of the day, we both know some things about Dead by Daylight are still outdated game design which BVHR works (albeit very slowly) to fix and balance.
Some "relics" don't need changed. For example, STBFL. Last it was changed was 2018 from what we see and a lot of people don't want to see it changed judging from some of the posts we've seen.
Besides how does it feel outdated when bleet, slinger and artist all have various versions of it. All hers is is just easier to proc and actually come with a downside.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3621087#Comment_3621087
All of the above.
He's pretty earth-y colored, I'd say. Definitely his size.
Just general visibility. It doesn't feel like I'm getting outplayed half the time, it just feels like old Spirit "where the ######### is she" energy.
He is a licensed guy so they're wanting to make him as accurate as possible so yea, probably not going to change those. Besides it strangely works the same way as old spirit, over half of them trick themselves when we say "I'm out bye" instead of playing the loop. He's definitely easier to do that to than a spirit with super speed.
If we can throw in our opinion, we think he's fine as is. Requires survivors to either pay more attention or play different. We like different. We definitely think it's better than "circle the car we can see each other over". THAT'S definitely not having anyone out play anything.
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@Hexling said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3621071#Comment_3621071
to get the jeff cosmetic you have to complete every challenge killer and survivor.
See that's a bit better to complain about, but still kinda silly. If we were to take a random (and probably incorrect) guess, the reason is so survivors learn what it's LIKE to play killer and maybe something like empathy. If you want that cosmetic, your going to work for it.
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Were kinda confused. Are you talking about his color pallet? Size? What?