Rulebreaker
Rulebreaker
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This is more recent but we've been shooting people with Deathslinger listening to:
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Sooo correct us if were mistaken here but your complaining about not being able to get all cosmetics (both survivor and killer...) without actually having to play both sides so you can get the cosmetics for the side you dont play?
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Overall we like G3 the most while our votes are split for 4, 5, 7 (we each have 2 likes and 2 dislikes in each of those)
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Has there been a recent uodate because the last time we tried that (been about a weekish) add on we could see the white footprints around survivors in the distance.
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This may be abit off topic but: How often does everyone see survivors actually run anti-tunnel perks? Maybe thats a reason no one is dissuaded from tunneling?
We keep seeing people think this 5 second stun is the end all solution. It defiantly would help but no where near as much as people are saying.
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@HerInfernalMajesty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3618079#Comment_3618079
Your take is very reasonable. I agree with it. I especially agree that the Killer should have an inherent advantage over lone Survivors.
Do you believe that the Killer can be threat without the 40/60 bias? If there was no Killer bias and the survival/kill rate was 50/50, is the Killer a big enough threat?
the 40/60 is 40 for all survivors correct? swfs and lone survivors? We were never clear on that. Regardless, we'd say the killer can be a threat at 50/50, but we'd say not a big enough threat for the killer.
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...We feel like we're seeing this kinda topic and question pop up more frequently...
We feel the killer should be the hunter in the fog if that makes sense. The killer should have an inherent advantage over lone survivors and be a threat, but survivors should be able...not fight back but not be completely helpless either at least as a team (a single survivor should never have the power to overcome the killer). We want a tug of war for the power where each side has to work for it instead of relying on perks or RNG maps. We might be rambling atm, but we want the killer to be a threat survivors need to worry about without having them hopeless (that would kill any sense of playing the game in our opinion) but with survivors not having to much power that theres nil threat from the killer (thered be no point playing killer then).
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Thats friendly, not fair. While it would be nice if people had some empathy for the opponents, everything bar what the devs explicitly disallow (ex: cheating) is fair play.
Sure we can chat. Tell us, who needs to actually coordinate and rely on others to achieve their objective? Its defiantly not the killer thats for damn sure. Lets put it this way, the killer is the one whos alone, but stronger than each individual survivor. If the killer really wants to, they can focus down a single survivor and all that survivor can do is run and pray that their team will finish the gens and open a door for them. They rely on their skills and abit of RNG for map, nothing else. For that individual to survive that they need to both be much better than the killer and have a team be efficient as a machine. For a survivor win streak of 3+ escapes (This is more a SWF win streak btw) each and every survivor must meet that minimum. We want you to look at specifically which is harder.
Now a thought probably entered peoples heads about "The best players should be matched with each other". First: what if said killer is still better than the best survivors? Second: Matchmaking prioritizes both accuracy and speed, meaning theres not going to be exact matches where the best face off with the best because the matchmaking doesn't want people waiting hours (cant blame them on that personally). Unless they're coordinating matches together (with would make it less of a normal match but thats us nit picking) its not gona happen often. And we'd like to point again, because we're stubbern like that, that just because it has not been done yet does not make it impossible.
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3617858#Comment_3617858
Its debateable if it is appropriate that killers can win thousends of games in a row, while solo survivors dream of a 50 escape streak. All you write is "i am a big scary monster, so the ballance is secondary priority".
And sure, survivors have the tools to win, but clearly not as much as killer. And when we look at the winstreaks, it becomes even more apparent which side the better tools has, especially when one side is willing to poop on fair play.
We do want to point that yes survivors do have just as many tools as the killer, but there being 4 survivors, they need to be watered down so that its equal to or better than the killer's only when working together.
Explain what "fair play" is please.
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Well, this is a nice change of pace being extremely organized.
All Killers Aren't Created Equally
This isn't as inherent a problem as this creates verity in killers and their powers (how would you make Myers equal to Nurse while keeping their identities unique?). That said this is more our opinion on the matter. Each killer is viable, all its dependent on is how hard they're going to work for victory.
Lack of Agency in Chases
This is an odd one for us to explain so please bear with us. Killers always have some form of agency in that they can choose who to chase and dont have to chase someone into areas they do not want to baring the last survivor. For example, should we as Ghostface see a survivor run into the Ward, we can simply chose to go harass their teammates instead and create some presure elsewhere. Some maps killers indeed have little to no control of the chase but this is where killers need to know whats worth it in the moment and occasionally part map problem (we finally saw the new garden of joy). You don't ever need to fully commit to a chase that leads to a hook (DISCLAIMER: Within reason. For the love of the entity this is not endorsing camping a 3 gen at the start).
Since you can counter flashlights a few ways, leaving the slug creates pressure anyway and or for them to use unbreakable (or rarely be in the boon version) we're not seeing this falling under "Lack of Agency in Chases".
Disparate Objective Times
Realistically, how often do you see gens done under 6 minutes without horribly failing or there being a SWAT running toolboxes and gen perks? (Note: SWAT is a highly efficient, coordinated, and skilled team of survivors that know killer weaknesses and how to maximize tiles) One detail you forgot is that killers get more dangerous the more resources survivors use. Maybe that first chase lasts a minute, but if you removed say 6 strong pallets, that next chase should be cut drastically. Barring super strong loops (stiiiiiiiiilllllll lookin at that mansion) chases (or atleast hits) should be getting shorter and shorter.
Perks Make the Gap Wider
And perks also make the gap shorter. You seem to be under the impression that the killer is under a very specific clock, specifically 6 minutes. They are not. The amount of time a killer has depends on how they are doing. A killer failing to exert any pressure on survivors is on them, and we've pressured survivors with the likes of Trapper, Myers, and GF (GF is even a favorite of ours) so its not the killer design causing this.
Map Design
This is one where we don't really disagree, baring you bringing up the most extreme cases (and you thinking Bamboozle is a must). We will point that maps can also favor the killer which leaves it to RNG depending on map and killer in question.
The Killer Meta
Killers don't need to tunnel. We know its been said and no one want's to hear it, but like Pulsar said, people tend to pick whatever they think is the best and easiest way.
BHVR Incentivizes Tunneling
....This has some flaws...especially if your lumping all killer players like this....we're going to put is short and simple in that generally (not everyone and not all the time) killers make decisions in the moment (if you want more in-depth ask and ye shall receive whenever one of us gets to it).
Your Solution
While we do in fact have time to switch targets (if you do it smart), we would like a reward for playing hook merry-go-round, but people will still tunnel (You may wana define tunnel, for this we're using: "Consciously choosing to chase and hook 1 specific survivor until death despite the availability of other viable targets") if they want to and there is a valid point that removing a survivor from the game is strong enough that the reward needs to be good. There would need to be an extreme plan and it would need to happen all at once (all the nerfs/buffs/reworks/etc).
...ye seem to have a dislike for Nurse and Bleet...
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...we'll need more bird pictures for this offence
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Its not scared, but Myers is the only one to actually give a "uh oh" reaction from us. Never know when he'll pop T3 and instantly kill you because you didn't see him look in your direction (or teammates). Also helps most Myers actually play different from one another, so we don't know what to expect.
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...we'd rather not have negative attention on our favored lady, less a repeat of Billy happens to her....
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3616530#Comment_3616530
1.) You three (I think that’s how many of you there are, correct me if I’m wrong?) jumped in to white knight someone with a bad take, and you’re clueless now because you don’t really know the context of the discussion. Probably because you skipped my first post.
2.) I can’t be bothered to read whatever else you’ve produced beyond that first sentence. It’s irrelevant to me now.
1: Just because its bad does not mean wrong . Feels kinda funny being called white knight knowing how often we make survivors suffer for their mistakes XD (yes your correct in 3). Is the first post this:
"DBD has anti-loop killers because players wanted killers that could more easily handle loops. But survivors still need some way to counter that; hence pre-drop and run (although to be fair that’s not a sure-fire way to escape an anti-loop killer)."
which then leads to this (we need a better way of doing this):
"Wrong. There has never been a killer (maybe except old Wraith) without any kind of anti loop power. This has always been a part of DBD's killer design.
Sadako is a great example of what happens when a killer doesn't have a good chase power. They have to double down on everything else in their kit to build pressure somehow and it ends up pretty unfun to play against.
Also, the killers that are generally considered the most fun to play against are all killers with (in theory) oppressive chase powers. Blight, Demo, Oni, Bubba, Huntress and Billy come to mind."
And if you don't mind us skipping around so we dont make this miles long:
"I'm saying that the term "anti loop killer" is inaccurate. There is not a single killer in the game that cannot use their power for a little bit of an extra edge in a loop. That is not a hot take but a fact. Name one exception, I'll wait."
Which is where we can say that "There is not a single killer in the game that cannot use their power for a little bit of an extra edge in a loop." is technically factually correct, despite how little it does.
2: Is examples of how it works
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3616434#Comment_3616434
While there’s no official classification system for killer powers (as in endorsed by BHVR), what I stated is the widely accepted definition of what “anti-loop” means. Xernoton’s definition is fringe. Most players would not describe any of those killers mentioned as anti-loop; see m1 killer vs. anti-loop killer.
Also the ghostface’s power is the stalking. So is Myer’s, and both stop (technically Myer’s slows down) to activate these abilities. The insta-downs are byproducts of successfully using their powers. Wraith can block a loop yes but *slows down* to uncloak so that he can actually interact with a survivor. Not a single one of these are anti-loop abilities.
Since we're talking about their terms we dont get your point.
Ghostface has more than just stalking as part of his power and going cloaked doesn't stop him (don't think crouching stops him either). Myers power has stalking true but thats to lvl up evil within, which is part of the power. In lvl 3 meyers has a longer lunge with a 1 shot down (or kill depending) and lower vault time (and looking at the wiki apparently lvl 2 does as well) meaning you must play the loops differently than say GF. Don't know bout you but preventing a survivor from jumping down that chute in the Game shuts down that loop real quick for us.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3616211#Comment_3616211
Anti-loop means denying the loop, not potentially ‘edging a survivor out’ during a loop sequence. Anti-loop powers exist to functionally shut down loops—impacting them in a major way. A minor inconvenience isn’t anti-loop. Myers, Wraith, and Ghostface literally slow down or stop to use their powers at loop, which gives survivors more of an edge at the loop.
That's your definition and we simply stated what THEY said and how in their terms it's technically true.
And if we may be so bold, GF doesn't need to stop to turn off the red stain, Myers can already be in T3 when they start a chase so he doesn't need to stop, and wraith can straight up body block loops much easier than other killers.
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Kinda on the fence for this. One claw we KNOW people will immediately set up minefields around basement/3 gens and thats that. On the other it make it so survivors wouldn't immediately know its a trapper by looking at the dirt and saves time marching across the map. This is on the assumption your removing the downside too.
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3615757#Comment_3615757
I just realised we have almost the exact same list
here is mine
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/8K0NN6P7W8PJ/my-image-2833-29.png
....why cant we have those as portrait pictures in game?
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3616182#Comment_3616182
They said anti-loop, though, not chase. Ghosty, Meyers, even Wraith, don't have anti-loop.
He specified "There is not a single killer in the game that cannot use their power for a little bit of an extra edge in a loop." To which he correct in that its technically fact. Each one has something that can give an edge in looping, even if poorly.
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At least once per year about someone will spawn in line of sight or TR of us as killer or survivor, but we don't think we've ever had swinging distance spawning before. Thats worse luck than ours.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3614568#Comment_3614568
I was referring to the attitude of survivor teammates. Unless you're consistently with the same 4 man, you run the risk of getting a random who doesn't care nearly as much. You're trying to slam gens, and they might be memeing around with snowballs or they could give up ASAP. Compared to killer streaks that you are I'm full control of your side... survivor streaks have to get a team together and can only work on the streak when everyone is available.
Ok apologies but we're lost now. We've covered that in: "between all the factors (people dodging lobbies, trying to keep wait times short, perks and maps carrying ppl, etc)" and "For a survivor win streak (not SWF, just 1) they need to be able to rely on the team, the team needs to be better than the killer, and the survivor in question has be better than the killer (depending on rules in question) while also having an objective they can almost never do alone (ties into relying on team) in areas the killer knows you have to go. The killer needs to only really be better than the weakest link, have some intelligence, and relies solely on themselves to fill an objective with any method they can employ (of which there's a few). One side getting a win streak is much easier than the other." earlier that describes how the survivors would have a harder time with a win streak. We can't see anything else related that makes sense.
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3614568#Comment_3614568
I would find it extremely unlikely that they'd manage 2000 wins, whilst overcoming RNG, and their opponents without playing an overpowered character.
That's the only way a functional MMR system could excuse a 2K winstreak
Unlikely does not mean impossible. At this point were going to assume that they're allowed unless you explicitly say no.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3614519#Comment_3614519
It would be possible, but your still assuming alot. No matter the balance, you still have stuff like ppl who kill themselves 1st hook because the killer wore green... Dependence on others is why it's easier to organize and do stuff like this as killer than survivor.
We've previously covered that survivor streaks are harder. Can you please clarify what you mean from us assuming?
@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3614519#Comment_3614519
If they were genuinely better, it's hard to say because of RNG.
You can be genuinely better than your opponents and lose because of RNG.
True but that RNG goes both ways though. Both killer and survivor can be screwed due to it, so lets say that they're good enough to overcome the RNG enough to win against their opponent (aka actually be better despite the odds every now and again).
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3614487#Comment_3614487
Because the game uses a competitive MMR system.
Sure, in an old CoD you could run up huge winstreaks. However, in any game that has MMR, the ENTIRE point is to match people appropriately.
2000 winstreaks do not happen in Siege or OW.
Wouldn't call it competitive MMR, nothin competitive about it. Regardless of that thought, between all the factors (people dodging lobbies, trying to keep wait times short, perks and maps carrying ppl, etc) the MMR can't really do its job, or at least properly to a majority's satisfaction. Regardless of THAT thought, lets say for argument's sake that the killer genuinely was better than everyone they got matched with in a working MMR system, would they be "allowed" to get a win streak of 1000+?
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3614455#Comment_3614455
That is the regular argument from killers i hear nowadays. Its okay killer is dominiating because they are the "power role". I dont think that is a good thing at all, when i see people leave the game because of that killer fantasy fullfillment.
Its also not about horror. During the first 20-50 hours of ingame time, survivor experience the antagonist horror. After that, this is gone forever and no OP killer, no matter how OP it is will change that. What is in front of the road should be a game that has great gameplay and good ballancing. And not some (your quote) "its not ment to be fair" nonsense that 4 out of 5 players should have to burden with.
For a survivor win streak (not SWF, just 1) they need to be able to rely on the team, the team needs to be better than the killer, and the survivor in question has be better than the killer (depending on rules in question) while also having an objective they can almost never do alone (ties into relying on team) in areas the killer knows you have to go. The killer needs to only really be better than the weakest link, have some intelligence, and relies solely on themselves to fill an objective with any method they can employ (of which there's a few). One side getting a win streak is much easier than the other.
May we ask what is good balancing to you? Our definition may differ.
At this point we're getting the feeling of "no matter if your better than the rest, have enough of a drive, and the skill to do it, eventually you MUST lose otherwise the game is imbalanced." and again we're going to question why?
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@Volcz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3614329#Comment_3614329
B/c again, its been nearly 8 years and there's nothing new besides killers/survivors (which are exciting for like the first few matches and then its back to the same old) and the occasional map. If other developers can do it for other games, whats holding back BHVR? Its not like they're the same small company they started out as in 2016.
We have over 240 perks, 34 killers & 39 survivors. I think were good on that front, lol.
As for balance/QoL, everyone knows BHVR is incredibly slow when it comes to that sort of stuff, or in other words, not as important to them as other things are.
Well no, in ranked there should definitely be a bigger punishment if you d/c or give up prematurely. Just like any ranked system in any other game w/ it. Not a slap on the wrist timeout for 1-5m. People would be incentivized to play a match out rather than leave b/c 1) their rank is on the line & 2) knowing there's a 0 tolerance to that sort of stuff and punishments will be much more severe. I'm sure some people will still leave or give up, it happens in other games too, but it'd be a lot less in comparison to quick play.
Its not enough b/c your rationale can be applied to literally every PvP game on the market today. Every game is meant to be 'entertainment'. So what makes BHVR so different from all these other game companies that do it? They all give you rewards for your time played or for earning a certain benchmark/goal/rank. Whose 'we'? I care about losing and winning. I want to win. I'm playing a PvP "horror" game. It doesn't feel good to lose and it doesn't feel satisfying to win. Some people just want what you mentioned, a good chase, back and forth, etc. I get it. But that can be for the 'casuals' and quick play enjoyers if thats all they really care about.
Winning isn't satisfying = its a whole list of things and different scenarios & situations that occur in a match. It could be as simple as a survivor giving up and griefing his entire team while I play killer. Or you doing 4 gens for your team and being the only 1 who makes it out by the end b/c your teammates just wanted to get altruism points and engage in chases. Making separate ques would enhance wins and would make losses probably a lot more manageable, considering you'd be playing with people who all WANT TO WIN. So the matches would hypothetically be a lot closer, people would have better map/situation awareness & urgency. For ex, if I climb a ranked system and I can get to the top MMR, its safe to say your quality of teammates and opponents will be better too b/c it won't be matching you against new players, casuals who want to meme, or people who just want a 'good chase'. Decision making will be a lot better, people would run the very good perks rather than sub-par or just straight up garbage ones. I disagree that a separate que would not change how I feel on losses/wins. I think it would.
If the game gets stale for the people who play a long time, what do you say to the people who find it stale after only a few matches and want to already close the game? The game hasn't evolved or gone in any other direction besides 'hey lets add some killers, maps, cosmetics and survivors'. As for burning out, I think most of us do & just end up taking breaks. We never fully quit.
Spice this game up. Nearly 8 years. Bring on those new game modes at least. Some lil chaotic fun.
Some things don't need to keep changing. But at this point we're feeling it's a matter of opposite opinions.
We have a cynical view of human nature (with reasons to back it up on this game here). The harsher penalties wouldn't do much, but this is speculation on both our parts.
(We is the 3 of us who share this account) We call that pandering to ppls. The companies aren't obligated to give rewards, they just want to do people will feel better about whatever. No game needs to reward anyone, but they do it anyway cause they want to. Your free to believe as you want but we are too and we believe those factors you listed wouldn't go away just because your in a ranked Q. Hell we know if we went to ranked we wouldn't be running meta even if you paid us.
We would say the game isn't for them then. We're not opposed to new modes, but if it changes so that it's a completely different game, they may as well have made a new game.
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@Volcz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3614278#Comment_3614278
The que times could go up,down or not change very much. I genuinely think a lot of people would play ranked. There are many 'competitive players' that have a good mentality, don't give up on first hook, don't d/c b/c of a certain killer. People who didn't join *competitive dbd teams* to play in the DbDLeague but want to test themselves. I think there are a lot of players who fit in to that category. People who are good at the game but don't have a team to practice with or against.
This game's been out, coming up on 8 years. This whole 'the reward is you booted the game up and enjoyed yourself' is not enough. Not in a game like this where its as frustrating to have a bad match or you were set up to lose in as compared to when you win a match and you still don't feel like its anything special. Sure some outlier matches, but for the most part - winning doesn't feel as good as it should and losing feels just as bad as it always does, especially when you had no chance or someone decides to throw the match when it could have been won.
Most people that have been playing this game for years or sometime now, have a love/hate relationship w/ DbD. I'd love a change. It doesn't need to be ranked per say, I just want something to do that actually means something in this game. There's no value of experience. The closest thing to 'oh wow look at that player!' is a P100 badge that just means you play a lot & load BP offerings every match.
Game's just really stale. Glad they're at least looking into other game modes, so thats a start I suppose.
Whether or not Q times goes up or not we can keep guessing all day, but again it doesn't really change anything (or atleast anything positive that we see). Why put the work into it when you could put it into something else? "Casuals" will still get people playing like their lives depends on it while "ranked" will have EVERYONE like that. Then again no one knows, maybe you'll get people who will play till the end, or maybe you'll get the same quitters as always.
Why isn't it enough? They game is ment for entertainment in the way the devs want, not catering to everyone. We maybe a bit different than everyone but we just don't CARE about winning or losing, we want an exciting hunt as killer and an exciting match as survivor. No more no less. Nothing we can do about people quitting like children when someone goes down before a gen pops. When you win we gotta ask "why isn't this satisfying?". It's it the way you won? The survivors giving up? Making separate Qs won't really change how you feel on wins and losses.
Not entirely sure what you mean in this paragraph so we'd like clarification before we eat our own feet.
The game gets stale when playing a long time (surprised we haven't burnt out yet).
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@bloodyknife said:
I haven't spent a single bloodpoint for months. I don't care about the rift.
Where are the actual rewards for proper plays?
The reward is you enjoyed yourself. Anything past that should be a bonus. Why do you need more rewards for "proper plays" on a game?
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@Volcz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3614114#Comment_3614114
This happens in almost every game w/ a ranked que. A good recent example is THE FINALS, which just released & is super popular.
The sweats unlock ranked but even Shroud (omega FPS god) has gone on record saying that a lot more sweating happens in the quick plays, especially b/c people are teaming up with their friends verus others who are solo, not as experienced, etc.
It happened in OW, OW2, R6, etc. It happens. Not a reason not to implement. Ranked players who are competitive, sometimes want to just relax and not worry about MMR/their position.To you, they might be sweating in a QP match, but to them, they're just playing the match out like they usually do. Everyone deserves to have a break when they feel like it & not be blamed for ruining QP just cause they're a competitive player.
And this already happens in DbD so it'd change nothing.
It does however split the amount of players in a Q. It may make the wait times longer, maybe not, but now you've got 2 Qs the devs had to put work into that ultimately wouldn't change anything. We don't particularly care about separate Qs but since it wouldn't do anything, we'd rather the devs do something more meaningful.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3614041#Comment_3614041
Tunneling is not problem neccesarily but it's viability is. It's too superior to other stragedies and very simple. So there is no reason to choose other options than being nice or wanting to show skill expression. Focusing on 2 survivors is maybe only reasonable one but why even do that? Empathy is my weakness I would probably tunnel every game without it and take my wins. It's playground with one good toy to choose...
The point he (the one of us who typed that) was more "it's not the devs job when it's the players fault" kinda deal than strictly just tunneling. But we'll follow this to.
Tunneling will always be viable, it's a given when one side needs to eliminate the other in an asymmetrical game. That said it only works if you can actually catch them and in a timely manner. We've seen people try and tunnel survivors who are much better than them and they loose. Badly at that as smart ones will glue themselves to gens (maybe take a hit to buy time) causing them to "gen tunnel" as people like to call it now.
We (or I in this situation) want to say this: The playground has more than 1 good toy, it's just people seem to have the same favorite.
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@jamally093 said:
Why bring a hatch offering if your not bringing a key because about 95% of the time the killer will find hatch and just close and congrats you now can't open hatch because you never brought a key. In the end hatch offerings make no sense because it's mostly an easy way for the killer to get a 4k since they know where hatch will spawn.
Because the killer will be at the hatch while your sitting at a door with wake up and sole survivor. Rng dependent, but knowing where the killer is going lets you pick the farthest door to open quickly. Or mindgame the killer and do something clever.
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@Deathstroke said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3613870#Comment_3613870
But isn't that the devs job to do player experience better not killers? What about killer experience if you play fair survivors will play hard and punish you. Gen rush and bodyblock etc which really is miserable experience when you handicapped yourself. That what is usually forgotten killer is player too and just want to win or have good time.
Here's another argument I heard we are killers not survivor friends and killers don't play fair but kill mercilessly. Many take roleplaying seriously and want to get really into the character so choose to play as hard they can some even enjoy it when survivors has bad experience. So relying on killers playing fair is not what should be done and how game should be balanced...
Anyway I think devs should do something about tunneling maybe bring old ds stun back with longer timer 60s is quite short. Then give killers boost they need and some incentives to play more fair way. For now it's like killers responsibility to play fair to offer survivors good experience. Yeah it's boring to tunnel and tunnel but unfortunately it remains best way to win.
So im gonna keep using it when I want to win and play only fair after some wins as it's ok to me get then bullied and have bad games. So I take account player experience I deserve some good games and give survivors some good games. But it might be mistake as if we killers did tunnel every game maybe it actually would be considered problem and fixed.
So at what point did the devs say you must do X or Y? Players surprisingly have agency in the trial. If you play "fair" (completely subjective) your making a conscious choice and should know the risk of doing so. Survivors run a similar risk in that the killer may punish survivors for playing "fair", in this case doing things other than gens. Both sides of one coin, its up to the players to play how they want and hope they have some empathy. Think of it this way, the devs are making a playground and us children can do whatever in said playground till they see us making some kinda problem which they then need to fix so it dont happen again. How successful they are doing that we can all debate all day. Theres a point where the players are to blame and if people keep complaining, the devs are going to end up railroad how everyone plays.
Having a good time is abit subjective but normally for one side to win, the other has to lose.
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@NekoGamerX said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3613998#Comment_3613998
Actually has to chase mean they don't have a good power end it fast.
Even following that definition we're still failing making sense of that list. Billy and Trapper can get hooks without chasing anyone, the list says Blight don't need to chase when, as pointed above, is pretty much chase.
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....may we have a definition of "chase" please?
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The entity gets bored watching it's killer watch the hooked survivors face and grants the luck to swing off the hook
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Depends on the killer and map. Hypothetically if both sides played like perfect robots, we feel it comes down to the map and killer in question.
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@xEa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3613158#Comment_3613158
Apparently, this is not possible on survivor, no matter how hard they grind and no matter how much they try. Not even close.
One side must rely on a team and is weaker 1v1. Their objective is much harder to reach than the other's which is simpler. That said, it probably IS possible, just no ones done it yet. Extremely difficult and unlikely, but possible.
Also does not really answer the question asked, unless the answer was "Because survivor hasn't done it, killer shouldn't".
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Our only question is this: If you have the drive to do it and put in the effort and are good enough to actually pull it off, why shouldn't it be a thing to have a win streak?
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@sharpef3rn said:
Like my understanding was the locker blocked screams and auras. Thats all. But those perks for some reason get everything blocked, which makes Ultimate weapon stronger and Friends til the end weaker. And if the issue is that the scream needs to happen to trigger it then Calm Spirit is bugged because you still get blinded or become the obsession. Or if a locker is supposed to protect from status conditions being triggered like the doctors shock, which is negated in a locker but not by calm spirit. then it should also protect you from Friends til the End(Exposed part) and Blood Echo. Like no way I look at it does it have a logical conclusion.
Ahh, your asking for the logic of it. Then yes, there's no uniformity to everything.
If you want we can post what specifically lockers affect and how, but we'd want a keyboard to type it out.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3612981#Comment_3612981
I could do it, just gotta remember to make it very clear that I'll be asking for a classic pack, not for the maps to be reverted.
Because if I don't, I guarantee someone will show up there saying things like "ah, but x map is much better now, rose tinted glasses, blinded by nostalgia" blah blah blah.
Pretty sure you'd get that no matter what. If you could also get em to bring heavy fog back too we'd appreciate it.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3612917#Comment_3612917
Not to sound to much like a certain Freddy main
Hahahahaha, I'm happy you agree with me :)
Credit where it's due. Newer maps may look good, but most lack the atmosphere.
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Ohh it's definitely lost a lot of the horror touch. {Warning he's gonna rant}
The survivors have a lack of fear for the killer. Not saying due to killer aesthetics (a psycho pop star could be worrying to some) but survivors just don't fear anything and WANT to get in the killers face most times (least till they're on death hook, THEN they get worried). And with many safety nets (super safe pallets, buildings like garden of Joy's manor, long loops, the like) they've got little reason to fear at the start and think they're untouchable {till we prove otherwise}. This isn't even getting into the apathy players may feel from playing a long while or seeing the same thing 21 times or whatever reason and decide to jump on hook.
Killer players themselves also have some blame. Who's gonna fear the guy who can't chase but can stall out the game forever, or keeps chasing 1 guy and purposely ignores the rest? Not us that's for sure and probably quite a few others. Many run the same damn thing the same damn way. No creativity, no surprises, nothing to worry about or shock us.
Then the atmosphere. Not to sound to much like a certain Freddy main, but the older aesthetics created a much creepier atmosphere. Yes we like the new look of most maps (sans coldwind which is bright for our tastes, they all look very nice) but the fog and darkness of when we started caused our spines to chill. No hud {though admittedly it's probably healthier for the game overall}, no idea what everyone is doing, less perks to save yourself (baring DS which works once), we had to survive on instinct and skill. There's less mystery is probably what we're getting at.
{Apologies for the rant, he's cooling down in a corner now}
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For friends till the end they should still become the obsession even in a locker so that might be a bug or our misunderstanding of the perk.
Lockers negate a few perks yes. Generally all aura and scream perks are blocked when in a locker. We don't know about rancor though.
Edit: Extra clarification. Lockers block all aura and scream related things. This includes docs power, scratch mirror Meyers, and the like. Does not block killer instinct such as legion's frenzy or artist's crows detection.
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Mixed bag. Survivors will glue themselves to gens injured but at the same time that's a VERY risky thing to do, atleast while we're killer as that means quicker downs. Basically if they don't bother to heal, it's going to be a quick game one way or another. It's not a problem per say but it can be predictable and dull.
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As long as 2+ of the points are filled we feel like we've won.
As killer:
- 7+ hook states
- Killed the most annoying survivor/ Object of Obsession
- Finished a rift/achievement
- Had fun
As Survivor:
- Escaping
- Finished a rift/achievement
- Died a hero
- Had fun
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Disturbed ward and Midwitch are our picks. Don't know why I like disturbed ward, but it's always had a spot ever since I started playing. He likes Midwitch because of SH and it's one of the few maps to give a dreaded feeling (in a good way).
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We hate to break it to you, but your idea wouldn't really remove tunneling. A killer can tunnel, then rotate the three remaining to have everyone hooked once and prep noed in the end.
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A bleed faster button or something would be welcome.
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If by magic this were to happen, we would vote bbq or rancor. Point us in the direction of people after we get someone (rancor has a bubble effect so distortion wouldn't matter).
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Gen repair: Bit standard but it works. Only thing we could recommend is overzealous instead of prove.
Altruism: Could probably switch out either botany (our pick) or We'll make it with something else (we say keep desperate because it also works with unhooking speed). Is it for healing others or rescues or both? Healing others keep botany, rescues keep we'll make it.
Self: If its just for you can replace desperate measures with something. If you really want to go in on the self heals go pharmacy (not recommended but it fits) but we vote bite the bullet or distortion (silently healing and a counter to nurse's calling respectively).
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Tough call...
Freddy is probably the top though we got a few close seconds.
If we're allowed to be irrational, then the moment they added Object of Obsession. That beats EVERYTHING.