Roco45
Roco45
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@Leon_Loves_Cheryl said:
Guys.
The slug meta is not a problem, it's a symptom.
The game has three major issues right now: Gen regression is too weak, hooking is survivor-favored, and Killers aren't balanced around high-end SWF.
If the game was balanced around SWF, it would be a lot better imo. They've SLOWLY been doing this by giving the Survivor HUD more information (who's doing gens, who's being chased, etc.) but they need to go a step further and implement a ping system and text chat system (with the ability to block/mute people mid-game.)
When solo survivor is successfully at the same power level as SWF, we can then buff Killer to compensate. Now SWF isn't that much of a gamebreaking advantage anymore and both sides are fun to play. You guys have been treading this path already with the Survivor HUD additions, but you're moving too slowly. Add more information and tools for Survivors, maybe a ping system and chat system and buff killer to compensate.
With that out of the way, we still have the issue of slugging. The problem is, hooking is severely disincentivized due to activating EXTREMELY powerful Survivor perks. Gen slowdown is heavily nerfed (which also disincentivizes hooking for some perks such as Pain Res and Pop), both of which are contributing to heavy slugging which is boring for Survivors.
We need to incentivize hooks, especially multiple so that both sides have time to play (no one likes dying on the first hook.) There are multiple ways to do this, such as having a global 7% gen regression on any hook (just an example.) Another issue is that picking up a survivor leaves the killer extremely vulnerable to Flashbangs which have no counterplay at the moment (looking away doesn't help if the survivor drops it too close, so it's entirely in their favor.) You can't just incentivize hooking, you ALSO need to incentivize picking up.
The game is better than it used to be but BHVR's shortsightedness is blaring at an all-time right now. The game needs massive help because high MMR is really frustrating for Killer and Survivor due to the game's balance. Gen regression is too weak, hooking is survivor-favored, and Killers aren't balanced around high-end SWF.
Text chat? Who tf has time to text chat in this game? There's barely enough time in SoloQ to open a chest or put up a boon and you want text chat? Ping? Yea sounds great, a troll Surv cluttering up the information feed with constant pings of nothing.
This game either needs actual comms like every other multiplayer game in existence, or SWF need to be nerfed. That's literally it and honestly the game needs both; SWF need hard nerfs that only affect them and SoloQ needs voice chat that obviously people can choose to mute if they want, but it should be an option.
Before anyone comes to cry about my comment on how it's unfair to nerf people who play with their friends, it's not fair to ruin matches for everyone else who boots up this game who aren't playing with friends. Balance is balance, it's not a punishment all of a sudden because people who want to play with their friends and abuse advantages, get those advantages taken away.
Every single match of SoloQ is nothing but a camp/tunnel/slugfest with Killers using Lethal to down someone in 10 seconds and then start a chain of combinations of deadmans/grim/painres so gens are untouchable at 5 gens and forever more, or Killers are bringing full slug builds and we all just get bled out for the entire match. BHVR is gonna have to move bots over to the official mode because if this keeps up, SoloQ player retention is going to plummet and drive up queue times as Killers absolutely don't want to just face SWF teams.
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Slugging is a product of SWF being OP combined with BHVR only balancing the game around SWF so much so that SoloQ is disgustingly awful. Killers are miserable since they get stomped in SWF matches or have to sweat, which leads to them playing comp in SoloQ matches to extinguish their rage from the SWF matches.
Only two things would make this situation better, either balancing SWF and then rebalancing the game, or removing the DC penalty since there are bots. Neither of which are likely to happen since BHVR is pretty bad so it is what it is.
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Yea he's messy with controls, its pretty pathetic that BHVR released him in this state. His powers are buggy around switching modes and then trying to do something in that mode. His teleport is also horrendously awful as sometimes it literally won't lock onto a healing Surv or a specific gen. His dream pallets are a waste and I'm noticing there's also a cheating problem as I snare asleep Survs and watch a good bit of them not get hindered in the slightest.
I also am getting only SWF when playing him and I only recently bought him after the rework, but the game is mostly SWF now since BHVR has ruined SoloQ.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3879975#Comment_3879975
I think we're just talking about two separate things. Im saying SWF is not as big a problem as the other things I mentioned. Im also saying SWF is the 'end game boss' for killers who win win win.
Lets just stick with that. Killers win win win and then get swf swf swf. This is the design. This is natural progression. Start by stomping solo'q and pubs, and then the SWFs come out and actually give you challenge.
Complaints about SWF will continue because killers, while having its easy as hell right now, want more. If SWF's we're -fixed-, it would be something else. Probably Survivor base moevement speed. Survivors shouldn't be able to turn as fast because blight can't. You name it.
Every match of Killer I play is against SWF, very rarely do I play against SoloQ and I'm not at the top of the MMR either. I just bought Freddy after his rework, nothing but SWF's out the gate so far, all bringing their best tools and map offerings while I'm not even prestige one.
The MMR doesn't even work so it's not really "win win win" and then SWF SWF SWF. SWF are sprinkled everywhere. Not only that, but I'm to believe that most of the Steam Chart #'s for this game is bot inflation, I play against the same pool of people no matter if I'm Killer or in SoloQ, any hour and any day, I'm in north america, there shouldn't be lack of players in this region.
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@TheTom20 said:
I just can't even imagine a game were not even a single gen is completed unless the killer is hacking or the whole team is trolling. I do get my fair share of bad team mates but usually most games are 4 or 5 gens done.
Yea I don't really buy that.
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@Falcao said:
It's time to admit that such a problem exists in the game. If you not play as Nurse or Blight, you will lose three genes for the first chase and the remaining two genes for the second. it's not even funny that someone complains about noed in such circumstances. I wanted to try the updated Freddy, but I ran into several repair squads. SWF should be given a repair penalty for each member of the squad. They have already been rewarded with voice chat, which is the 5th strongest perk. or should the game be fun only for Nurse, Blight, and swf squads?
SWF should absolutely get repair speed debuffs per SWF amount. 4 man SWF impacted heavily and two man SWF impacted the least. This wouldn't impact SoloQ at all.
BHVR needs to start targeting SWF and balancing the game around a nerfed SWF. Would be better for all.
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No he's not or more than half of Survs are speed cheating so it doesn't even make a difference. I can hit an asleep Surv with hindered in the middle of a deadzone and watch them still make it to a pallet. Infact half the time, I hit an asleep Surv with a snare and literally watch them speed up. It's hilarious to hit someone with a snare and they still loop twice around a big rock. Almost all my games are against SWF though, hardly any team I face is SoloQ.
What Freddy is, is a SoloQ stomper but that's every Killer. SWF have no trouble against him, or any Killer besides Nurse and Blight.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3879816#Comment_3879816
Define huge issues? The huge issues I see are the bugs plaguing the game, the horrible map designs, and hooks not having any real value.
How does swf factor into this at any point? They are your end game. If you dislike SWF and are getting them often, tank your MMR a bit. Thats a solution to your immediate issue. The others I listed have no real fix like this.
So, are priorities in the right place? Do you disagree, and if so I'd love to chat! Thank you :)
It's like the same people, with clearly multiple alts, not reading anything and just making comments lol I'm not explaining for the upteenth time how maps/perks/loops have been nerfed, while Killers have been not only buffed from that but how most have gotten reworks that have been buffs. I've already stated it a handful of times just to met by "no uh". It's like none of you play the actual game outside of your SWF, which makes complete sense judging by the type of replies I get.
Killers are all miserable and sweaty, running games off of trying to purely ruin the other parties time investment and SoloQ is the worst it's even been despite the "buffs" given to it. If you can't see how SWF factors into this, then I think the discussion is out of your depth.
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
I really am baffled why players don't understand that SWF teams are the end game, high mmr challenge. If you're getting them, then you've probably been stomping otherwise. SWF is the only thing that will challenge a killer who continually wins their games.
I wish mods would just auto delete SWF hate threads. If you get these teams often, just believe you're high mmr and smile. You're probably not, as these seal team 6 teams are like 1 in 1000, but the ego is a fickle thing, and you probably can't cope. Its normal, so dont worry too much.
The Kill rates everyone boasts about regarding SWF would actually have SWF not challenging a Killer more than half the time, so while SWF is end game, the game is catered around them, which is why the game is having huge issues rn.
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@jmwjmw27 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3879110#Comment_3879110
I just told you the reason not to nerf SWF - people that want to play games with friends will just play other games and stop playing DBD. Terrible business move, which is why it won't ever happen.
If you want an even playing field, you boost soloqueue up to SWF level by making matchmaking not suck and adding more UI info (like teammate perks) and perhaps things like pings, and buff killer to match.
That's not a real reason. Why am I penalized for playing in SoloQ and that's all well and good, but if SWF's were penalized for playing in SWF, that's all of a sudden forbidden? That's a fallacy you've conjured as a fake talking point. Game balance is game balance.
An even worse business move is to alienate all your SoloQ and Killer players in favor of SWF, which we are beginning to see the fruits of that labor. You are not boosting up SoloQ to SWF levels, that is impossible while also not boosting up SWF and I hate to break it to you, while I think that perks should be viewable between Survs in the lobby, if implemented without addressing SWF and SoloQ properly, it's going to just cause lobby dodges between Survs and longer queues.
It's also hilarious that you state subpar buffs to SoloQ and then suggest that Killers would then need buffs to compensate, Killers aren't having a tough time against 4 rando's, bud. All the complaining is attributed to SWF matches.
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@hermitkermit said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3879007#Comment_3879007
In your opinion why do you think the game is catered to SWF? Their survival rate is below 50%, and that includes even the top 5% of MMR players. If the game truly favored SWF, wouldn’t their survival rate be significantly higher? Isn’t that what catering implies?
SWF doesn’t get exclusive perks or items, SoloQ has access to the exact same things. The benefits players in SWF receive are external, not internal. They don’t get special BP incentives to play SWF over other roles, or special in-game cosmetics or things like that.
Surv perks keep getting nerfed. Maps are getting smaller, with more deadzones and less loops, yet every new Killer has some sort of strong anti-loop and hinderance while the last few Killers have outright insane map traversal powers despite the obtusely smaller maps. The dozens of aura perks that killers have now, for doing basically any action, completely ruins any hide and seek aspect which then leads into looping and how gutted that has become.
Gen spawns are also insane, literally gens being mere meters from each other on most maps so Killers can easily patrol a 3 gen, it's not as if that's because SoloQ is gen rushing every game lol
Tunneling/Slugging/Camping haven't been addressed in any meaningful way, which is entirely because of SWF as any buff to the Surv role in general, would buff SWF even more, which BHVR can't have.
It's very rare to see a Killer go for 12 hooks, they all slug/tunnel/camp because it's the most effective thing as it's one of the only ways to slow a SWF team so ofc it's going to decimate a SoloQ team; so Killers do it and then it carries over into SoloQ matches which then become a nightmare.
Also SWF do get exclusive perks, they get a a dozen perks without equipping them simple by communicating, let alone all the other types of information they get. Also, that stat about SWF isn't a gotcha, it literally is a point that backs me up; SWF kill rates are because the game has been balanced around them, which is again why SoloQ is a complete disgusting nightmare lol BHVR also doesn't release real stats for SoloQ, as most SoloQ matches are filled with DC's which don't count towards any stat.
So, as maps/killers/perks are rebalanced and you claim that SWF escape rates are 50%, would that not indicate that the game is being balanced around SWF? Is it really that big of a mystery as to why SoloQ is a nightmare and everyone is either DCing or "going next"?
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@Shaun2196 said:
Culture is the result of what you allow, reinforce, accept, or reward daily.
I find it really interesting that you have survivors on here stating the game has never been worse for them due to camping/tunneling/slugging, and then you have killers defending those tactics stating they've "always been a part of the game". You look up those exact same killers' past forum posts and they're complaining that they only queue against the same group of survivors who don't play the game as it should be played (quitting when they don't get their maps of choice)… Almost like people don't want to deal with it and have moved on?
Behaviour has turned a blind eye to this seemingly because they keep getting away with it via new folks being added in. As a result… here we are: a landscape of babies and shitheads.
Have been playing for years with friends, and we're now discussing playing something new because this has gotten so corrosive for the survivor experience that either we be corrosive back in order to try and avoid the nonsense or we leave.
Killers justify it because of SWF, if SWF was finally nerfed as it should be, the entire game could then become easier to balance… but instead we have BHVR refusing to do anything, so both SoloQ and Killers roles are a nightmare. The only people who seem to enjoy this game anymore are SWF and if SoloQ leaves, Killers are not going to want to play against only SWF teams, then SWF will be left with even longer queues.
Also I state this before any shiller states Killer is the "best" it's ever been. While Killer is the best it's ever been, the games as Killer are unsatisfying sweat fests win or lose (unless using the obvs broken Killers that BHVR keeps in, to again, combat SWF or you are going up against 4 rando's), which is why Killers for the most part are all playing like scabs.
It's just this toxic cycle that's been allowed to continue for almost a decade with BHVR refusing to acknowledge the real issue of this cycle, SWF and the advantages they bring. I don't advocate for separate queues, but if people who play in SWF keep wanting to harp on others who are suggesting to balance that role out, then SoloQ and SWF should be entirely separate and BHVR can balance the game around two separate queues who play the game completely different than one another.
Overall though, this game had fundamentally been built on not fun, but masochism that breeds immense resentment towards whoever your opponent is, in the game. That type of thing can't easily be undone and BHVR has backed themselves into a corner over it.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
Maybe the issue is the survivor role isn't for you? Killers can't slug, tunnel, camp, people hate noed, people hate nurse, blight. People complain Myers is boring because he stalks and doesn't chase. People complain sitting on gens is boring and just want to loop/blind the killer but hate it when killer chases them twice in a row. People complain about literally anything, there is nothing a killer can do without people complaining.
Most of the time it sounds like people want a whole rework of the game and role of survivor which would basically be a different game to what dbd is.
Surv isn't for me? Bud did you even read my post? Body blocking me into a corner in my SoloQ match that was a slugfest at 5 gens anyway, for +25 mins, what Surv is for that?
This unaddressed baffoonery is going to lead to long queue times and no player retention. SoloQ has never been more miserable.
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@solidhex said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3879002#Comment_3879002
Have you ever actually played on comms? Because your suggestions are WAY beyond the capabilties of swf. I don't know if you ever tried to call out the killer or tried to meet with your surv friend somewhere on the map, but it's actually much more time consuming and prone to errors than just seeing a yellow aura and run to that like an AI bot. I can assure you, from my experience of 5 years of DBD, that most players are incapable of coordinating correctly or even using clock callouts. I've played in a comp team for ~1 year, and learning how to coordinate efficiently was by far the hardest part, as well as calling out correctly. Most of the players you will meet in public matches are far away from that level.
I'm not saying there is no difference compared to solo q, there is a big difference, but people acting like every swf on earth is some death squad that's impossible to beat is nonsense. You can even abuse some of the common swf mistakes like altruism, if you're in the mood for that. Apart from that, i've seen solo teams with formidable players who beat me by a mile just because every chase was so hard. One of the main strengths of swf is that it is often a coalition of good players who play to win and don't give up first hook or even DC. One of the main weaknesses of solo q is that you play with random people of different skill levels, some playing to win, some not touching gens, some doing challenges, some want to meme etc etc….
Besides that, you could apply the same nuke-logic to some of the killers like Blight, Nurse or other S- or even A-tier killers which are used by some players for insane win streaks (high hundreds/ low thousands won matches). Most blights you will meet online are mediocre and beatable, but play against some of those comp Blights and it's almost impossible to get outs against them.Yea I've played on comms and it's so easy to escape. I can call out where a Hex is, where a dull totem is, I can call out where the Killer is, what perks the Killer has, what pallets are still up, if the Killer is camping, if the Killer is chasing me, if the Killers is coming towards me and my gen, if the Killer is wasting time looking for me, what gen I'm working, what gens should and shouldn't be done, I can coordinate perks, let my team know when I'm going for a save, let my team know to stay on gens while I'm on hook for a little longer, we can coordinate tools, calling my teammates over for heals or other, etc. My teammates can all do the same.
At the core, the lot of you discount SWF's and make it seem like a non issue, which is partly because you want to retain all advantages at the expense of everyone else. Also not every SWF is or needs to be super coordinated, they get endless amounts of information compared to SoloQ, even if they are bad.
Killers have adjusted to that by slugging/camping/tunneling at 5 gens to control the match, even when it's against SoloQ where none of that is needed. So we have a DC and 'go next' epidemic with the lot of you advocating for higher DC penalties and taking away more player agency from all Survs, instead of curbing the group of Survs that are responsible for where the game is.
RN as I type this lol A 5 gen slugging Blight has me cornered on the map blocking me in and preventing me from getting hatch, this was a SoloQ match lol . Going on +10 mins rn, I'm recording it. Every match of SoloQ is a miserable experience and it's apparent that even the Killers are miserable, all because of SWF.
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@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3879004#Comment_3879004
If Behavior didn't want people to play with friends, they would implement something like what Phasmophobia does where there is no friend's list where you can functionally add people after a game, no?
They can easily code that in completely bypassing a certain issue that you have. Notice how I mentioned your unnecessary 2 man SWF argument needing a debuff and how not all SWF are on comms, yet wanting to add restrictions.
How about this mister developer, make your own DBD clone, and implement ALL the changes you want, and we can see how your game fares to the obviously SWF-sided game. You can do all the changes that you want to a 60% kill rate game with a slightly higher 40% for 4 MAN SWF, mister coder. 😉
Learn to get better and quit claiming it's SWF boogeyman holding you down.
What are you talking about lol You can play Phasmophobia with friends, its a game literally designed around playing with friends. IDC if all SWF are not on comms, that's a them issue. The game is being balanced around SWF when SWF don't even make up the majority of the playerbase. At this rate, SoloQ is going to disappear and it's just going to be SWF and that will make Killers get even more toxic.
I shouldn't have to make my own game because I want this game to be balanced, this game should be balanced lol That's literally what BHVR is supposed to be doing for an online PVP game. We wouldn't be seeing any of the issues this game has rn if SWF were nerfed to be balanced.
You also didn't address anything, the closest you got was you going "IDK how to code that" well go figure, you don't work at BHVR lol
SWF is the entire reason this game is atrocious rn. The only people who support it are those in SWF reaping the easy benefits and making alt accounts to keep voting their posts lol
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@jmwjmw27 said:
team based games that don’t allow you to queue with friends or punish queuing with friends die out.
For this reason, BHVR will never nerf SWF or punish out of game comms. Trying to advocate for either is a fruitless endeavor.
And it's for that very reason that SoloQ is unplayable and all Killers are going to be met with is SWF and Bots. There is zero actual reason not to nerf SWF. All the droning on and on about how SWF players will leave if SWF is balanced out, well they need to get gone then, they're making the game worse for everyone.
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At this points it's almost all of them. Mostly all Killers/Perks/Maps heavily destroy SoloQ in the vain of trying to balance the game around SWF. Last 5 matches I just played, no gameplay for any of us. Just Killers with all the same builds, same characters, doing the same things. Blight with Lethal who's downing Survs 2 seconds into the match and then slugging everyone else. Or nurse with Lethal doing the same. Then even if gens do start to get done, it's the same gen regression/lockout perks so gens are blocked for minutes.
The game is atrocious rn for SoloQ.
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The Steam Charts #'s are inflated. I can play this game at anytime of the day and not only do I have to wait a bit for a match on either side, but it's the same players. Like constantly getting the same Killers, even when they play different characters and I'm getting the same Survs. I'm also not playing from the moon lol I'm in the USA.
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@CursedPerson said:
This has been something going on for a while. Adding restrictions to weak perks just seems backwards to me. I do not understand this at all.
Wake-up - why did it need survivors to be alive- your punishing the survivor using the perk for teammates dying.
calm spirit - why is there unnecessary downside to have totems take longer
Cut loose - How are you even supposed to use this perk with the number of restrictions and while quick and quiet exists
Friendly competition - after prove thyself nerf this bad perk was left in the gutter you have to use negative gen efficiency to get a measly +5% for a short time
Invocations - these are always a massive wasted time investment for perma-broken????
potential energy - a potentially mediocre perk gatekept by the fact its too risky to use. Its already a negative time investment why does it need to lose everything on injure
Technician - for the love of new players why is the training wheels perk so punishing? do they really need to be punished for using this perk? Most players would rather run any other perk then the one that makes their missed skill checks even more punishing.
This is just some of the problems. Please consider not adding so many downsides to the least used perks in the game. Anyone else have perks i missed?
Blame SWF. The game balance gets wonky when you have Surv perks that actually are useful because then SWF just stack them to abuse, so then Killers rightfully complain.
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@BorisDDAA said:
Third swf thread today
Yea so maybe BHVR should do something about SWF instead of catering the entire game around them.
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@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3878769#Comment_3878769
Lmao, I have no idea why you're coming at me sideways like you're some game developer of your own. 😂
The only game in any multiplayer that I've seen that wants to punish people for playing with their friends for a marginal percentage increase of getting a 3k/4k easily handed to you.
Already most games are steamrolls as many on these forums attest to that, yet you want to take away player freedom from the individual because of big bad boogeyman SWF. Get a grip and stop demonizing SWF like all of them can loop optimally or not put themselves into 3-gen scenarios.
I'm glad you're not a game developer because your views are atrocious for wanting to nerf a 2 MAN SWF, lol.
DBD is also the only game you've seen with multiplayer that wasn't based around playing with friends and has yet to add in what every other multiplayer has, voice comms.
Correct, most games are steamrolls and that's because Killers are overbuffed and Surv gameplay in general has been nerfed into boredom to compensate for the advantage SWF have over Killers. Literally is why SoloQ is unplayable and why Killers are all so sweaty and salty from the matches they vs against SWF. If SWF didn't have advtanages, then Killers would have no problem playing against them, but no one wants to.
Though lets circle back to you not knowing how BHVR could code a mechanic like gen debuff into this game, instead of actually talking about the viability of gen debuffs curbing SWF advantages. The entirety of Surv gameplay has been dumbed down to compensate for SWF and the entire game suffers because of it, get over yourself and your need to retain unfair advantages, they should be balanced out.
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@CautionaryMary said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877472#Comment_3877472
I don't know how you would implement this or any other change to SWF.
People bring up gen-debuffs, but when asked no one can give a consensus on 2-man or 3-man. Like the other poster said, solo-queue suffers without the information a SWF provides and usually has randoms running around not knowing what to do unless you're high MMR.
You don't know how to code mechanics into DBD to block Survs in a SWF from having duplicate perks? Thank god you're not a Dev. Let's let a BHVR Dev do that, yea?
Likewise, mechanics such as gen debuffs can be given to SWF in varying degrees of amount. 4man SWF gets the largest and 2 man SWF get's the lowest debuff. SoloQ Survs get no debuff. Simple, easy, logically is sound since Killers complain about gen speeds from SWF coordination.
All things could be added to the Test Servers to check viability, but what BHVR does currently is absolutely nothing and it's been ruining the game.
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@Xxjwaynexx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877256#Comment_3877256
What misinformation did I state? I don't need to deflect, the real issue is lord forbid 4 comptent survivors end up together and you have to face split pressure where tunneling and camping fall apart when not used as an actual strat instead of a Braindead tech. The balance you're crying for doesn't exist in this game bro sorry to break it to you. When survivors are lost is when killer is at its most powerful when Cooperating together and competent the killers power creep slows significantly and requires actual skill and mental thought. If you want to balance solo q up to swf levels then advocate for that but to lower swf to solo q standards is just moronic. Peak survivor gameplay and skill expression happens when survivors work together, why would you want less competitive matches? Lastly did you ever think that they aren't balancing the game for the weaker players.
You literally stated the difference between SoloQ and SWF yet are still shilling for SWF to keep those advantages. SoloQ will never and can never be brought to the level of SWF, that's common sense. SWF can and should be brought down to the level of SoloQ and if people have an issue with that, they should keep their lame duck excuses to themselves, it's quite apparent that any pushback for nerfing SWF is entitled survs wan their advantages at the expense of everyone else which has led the game to become as horrible as it is rn.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877285#Comment_3877285
Although I pay attention, I'm afraid I haven't played in over six months.
Likewise, all of my friends refuse to touch the game due to how miserable it has become. Even if we win, it feels like a loss. It wasn't fun, it was stressful.
I am sad to see that you've resorted to strawman arguments, I was hoping you had a point.
So you and your friends don't play the game because of how bad it's become, but yet you're on these forums combatting anyone who states the real issue with this games balance. That's actually incredibly sad.
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@Yippiekiyah said:
If map balance wasn't atrocious swf wouldn't be half as bad as it is, that is where they need to focus their attention.
Which has already led to maps getting overnerfed to become small nothing maps filled with dead area's and very little actual loops, especially loops that are intersting. SWF is atrocious because of comms and the coordination that SWF bring, even if they aren't that coordinated, there is a ton of information that SWF instantly get that the game wasn't designed around. SWF need to be nerfed and the game needs to be balanced around newly nerfed SWF.
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SoloQ Survs don't stand a chance, SWF have slight chance. The game is overtuned for Killers so they can deal with sweaty SWF, but Surv gameplay is constantly nerfed into the ground. At a certain point there's going to be AI Survs to alleviate queues since Killers are going to have no one to vs but SWF and those aren't plentiful enough to quell the queues.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877259#Comment_3877259
I would not make an alt when I have 20K posts lol
SWF is fine as is. Maybe a little weaker than I'd like, but it's fine.
People make alts for lots of reasons.
SWF is not fine as is, by evident of the entire state of the game lol What you meant to say is that you're fine abusing SWF, good for you :)
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877203#Comment_3877203
The balance would be to add a voice chat, make it worthwhile to play Solo Q, make the average match more enjoyable etc etc
Punishing people for queuing together is only going to ensure that SWF is just as miserable as Solo Q, which nobody wants.
Voice comms are not the balance it needs nor will will ever happen. BHVR can't even have an unmoderated chat, you think voice comms are going to be added for one of the most salty gaming communities? Not to mention anytime that is suggested, people seethe to express how they don't want it.
Are you all the same person on alts? It's the same type of weird selective word of "punishing" players when it's not punishing solely to be punishing, it's called balance. This game has gone through nonstop balance changes. The logic of balance changes being punishing when only to defend your need for SWF to stay in the game as is, is a huge issue and keep seeing some accounts constantly using the same fallacy word of "punishing".
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@Xxjwaynexx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876579#Comment_3876579
My brother in Christ what are you even talking about, I mentioned not a single dbd stat in my statement, I don't care about stats. I stated my personal games, and no we Don't see swf the same way you're terrified of them and crying to nerf to them while I welcome them that's night and day views.
Also just because you claim something as fact doesn't make it a fact ya know. You crying about what the game was built for, who cares it's been 9 years and guess what looping wasn't intended and yet here we are in the age of it. If you want easy games keep losing to the swfs and you'll get them it might take awhile because these seal team op swfs you speak so frequently of aren't that frequent. You cast aside all stats but have none of your own, if you consistently play these highly coordinated teams then you should easily be able to provide vod proof or at the very least a nightlight stat sheet I mean it compiles the match data for you.
Your right in at least a single point I do benefit from swf as you put it and it seems they crush your spirits. Maybe you should spend more time playing killer and it'll click you really don't have to be scared of these guys. Since you can't seem to understand this last point I Could Care less about DBD Stas MMR or anything else. If you can't or won't replicate your crying point to back it up then it's just talk plain and simple.
People like me are trying to enjoy this game not spread misinformation when we get beat to try and force nerfs, we're also smart enough to know you can't punish someone for playing with a friend in substantial way. You were probably the kid that always cried someone was looking at you in the car. For the last time swf is not inherently op, the good swfs your losing to would probably beat you with at least one other good team anyway and youd be here crying to nerf something else. Let's not forget your original point is to blame swf for camping and tunneling because you just can't win without it. At this point I can't wait until they just lean full force into swf so people like you can finally get better
You keep deflecting. Idc that SWF was added when the structure wasn't set up for it, that's not at all even remotely close to what I've posted about. SWF should be balanced, not balancing the rest of the game around SWF when the majority of Survs are SoloQ and the majority of Killers don't even want to play against a SWF because of how unbalanced it is.
Don't even talk about forced nerfs, the entire Survivor gameplay experience has been gutted to allow for Killers to compete with SWF. Just more selfish misinformation from the same people.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877200#Comment_3877200
The issue with all that is the solos being thrown in with paired up survs who do gens way slower and are forced to run less effective builds. One thing the devs have consistently shown is they wish players to run what they like.
The MMR does suck, but Killer has been buffed to deal with SWF since the game has been balancing around SWF, SoloQ is just completely like running into a brick wall with the goal of going through it. Most Killers are miserable by how they treat SoloQ players when no real thread of losing is posed.
@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3877200#Comment_3877200
Debuff their gen progression speeds per SWF amount in party. Wouldn't affect SoloQ one bit so Surv overall isn't nerfed and would increase gen repair times for SWF to offset their coordinated information.
-Only allow SWF to bring in brown tools and brown add-ons. Entices SWF to engage with chests and also deters stacks of broken tools being brought into the match.
-Don't allow repeat perks. All SWF in a party must bring in different perks so they all can't stack the meta or all can't stack 2nd chance perks to troll the Killer.
See, when people are talking about "punishing people for playing with friends", they're referring to this kinda thing.
Every balance change would be "punishing" with that kind of logic, so why balance anything at all? Balancing is not "punishing", stop crying because you don't want your clear advantage to be corrected. Those changes wouldn't impact SWF groups that play the game to have fun.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876653#Comment_3876653
They had a choice between putting KYF in at launch or SWF and I believe it was up to a community vote, they chose KYF. SWF was added shortly after.
It was always intended. They likely did not have the resources to accommodate a voice system at the very beginning of the games lifespan.
The game is already balanced around SWF's. Even in the best-case scenario, they are escaping just 48% of the time. Nerfing Survivors more is going to dumpster Solo Q, which seems to be where most players sit.
Punishing people for daring to commit the sin of playing with their friends is also pretty stupid.
Omg the point just flew over your head, you almost got it!
"The game is currently balanced around SWF" …and are you wondering why SoloQ is unplayable, why SoloQ is filled with DC's and "going next" ….and why mostly all Killers tunnel/camp/slug? Mmmk lol
Also the game is only balanced around SWF, it isn't fairly balanced around SWF and only taking into account a small portion of the Surv playerbase to balance an entire game around, is exactly why the game is unfun for everyone not in a SWF.
Again, it's not "punishing people for daring to commit the sin of playing with their friends" to make balance changes, that is such a fallacy that it doesn't even deserve a rebuttal, but I still gave one.
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SWF have weaknesses, tunneling/camping/slugging. SWF are not likely to leave their friends to die on hook or bleed out on the ground, so those three things are the most optimal way to deal with SWF and the halt the match to get a snowballing effect.
Problem is, those three things destroy SoloQ as SoloQ can't possibly keep up with the level of coordination that's needed to subvert those mechanics. Those three things, while also being the most optimal to deal with SWF, are still not great ways to deal with good SWF and the Killer will still have an unfun time, unless it's a cracked out Nurse or Blight since they ignore game mechanics and are broken, which is justified to deal with SWF…. which again ruins SoloQ.
I'm seeing a pattern here. You're right though OP, SWF need nerfs!
-Debuff their gen progression speeds per SWF amount in party. Wouldn't affect SoloQ one bit so Surv overall isn't nerfed and would increase gen repair times for SWF to offset their coordinated information.
-Only allow SWF to bring in brown tools and brown add-ons. Entices SWF to engage with chests and also deters stacks of broken tools being brought into the match.
-Don't allow repeat perks. All SWF in a party must bring in different perks so they all can't stack the meta or all can't stack 2nd chance perks to troll the Killer.
Then slugging/camping/tunneling could actually be addressed by BHVR with meaningful mechanic changes and then wow, the game is so much better for everyone since Killer won't get abused every match, SoloQ can become playable again, and SWF can still focus on playing with their friends.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876593#Comment_3876593
How is killer miserable when it's the strongest it has ever been? With a target kill rate of 60%, that means 8 hook states per match on average. Soloq is the only thing that's suffering right now (to the degree where I'm surprised anyone actually plays this way). Arguably, if there was no SWF or communication between survivors, it would be extremely rare that all gens complete, and I'd guess the exit gates would be powered in only 10% of matches.
If SWF survivor teams got 250+ match escape streaks, then it would be applicable to ask for a nerf, but when many killers are running around with streaks in the hundreds and thousands on multiple killers, I don't think anyone believes for a single minute that SWF is the root cause of everything wrong with this game. Let's just be honest here.
How is Killer miserable? Go look at every forum for this game and see, or better yet, go play Killer lol You're right! Killer is the strongest the role has ever been!… and it's still not enough to deal with competent SWF and it's completely ruined SoloQ.
Killer is the strongest it's ever been yet every single match now we have slugging/tunneling/camping, so much so that everyone is jumping on the forums to complain about it. Everyone wants to penalize Killers from doing it or penalize Survs from leaving games because of it, but none of you have thought about penalizing SWF and that speaks volumes. Bandaid fixes on a wound that requires stiches.
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@iloveandhatethisgame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876593#Comment_3876593
the devs have said that they have always had swf in mind. And they have a discord to have people play with eachother.
Solo que is miserable because random teammates, you can’t see eachothers perks, and lack of coordination.
If they had SWF in mind then the gap between SWF and SoloQ would not be so extreme for almost a decade and it wouldn't be one of the only PVP games, literally the only asymm game ever made, without voice comms lol That doesn't seem like a Dev team that had SWF in mind, that seems like a Dev team that backpeddled and needed to give SWF players some sort of god complex, which we can see on full display in this thread.
All good to play with your friends, but the game should be balanced for that, to suggest otherwise is dishonest.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876579#Comment_3876579
Are we just going to ignore the almost 9 years of balance and shifting priorities this game has gone through to go from "4 survivors with 0 communication (never really existed anyway since skype AND discord were available when patch 1.0.3 dropped with SWF legit a few weeks after launch)," to where it is now?
Don't pretend like the devs have balanced survivors around "no communication" within the past 5 years at the very least. If you have 0 communication on the survivor side currently, the survivors will lose. Are you calling it OP because the survivors actually stand a chance at escaping via coordination?
Again, I don't care for BHVRs warped stats
But if the stats showed that SWF survivors escaped 80% of the time, you'd be all for a survivor nerf right?
The game launched with no SWF and the game was created without SWF in mind, every base mechanic this game is built off of literally reiterates that. What BHVR has done in those 9 years is touch every facet of this game besides SWF and look what we have, a miserable experience for SoloQ and a miserable experience for Killers.
So enough of these threads about "Stopping tunneling/slugging/camping" or "Stopping going next or DCing", start broadening your horizons and acknowledge the real issue, SWF being OP, they play a completely different game than SoloQ does and the game sure isn't balanced around SoloQ.
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@Xxjwaynexx said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876543#Comment_3876543
My brother in the fog I think you're missing the target. SWF isn't I repeat "is not" inherently over powered, the power creep of Swift is the players that lie within certain swf groups keyword here is certain. Being in a swf doesn't automatically win matches if you're a terrible survivor then you're gonna be a terrible survivor swf or not. You preach as if all swfs have this magic discord up and chill and win and it's not that simple at all. It's the same with nurse cries yeah in the right hands she's a menace but if we're being actually honest I've only meet a select few nurses that were actual menaces and I've met hundreds that where meh. Same with swfs and guess what I'm a 96/4 ish killer/ survivor have the actual stats to prove that as well if you need them.
We see swfs differently and that's ok, you view them as this unbeatable Boogeyman while I view them (the few good ones we get every once in a while like 1/20 matches) worthy adversaires. A well oiled swf is peak game play challenge just like a well oiled killers whose put the time in to master the craft. After 3k plus hours(hell I hit this point after 1.2k) playing uncoordinated survivors isn't challenging and isn't gonna make me better or learning anything new. I'm to the point now where I haven't ran perks in the last year or so minus chaos shuffle, to make a challenge.
I know you don't want to hear it, but hard tunneling and camping ( although viable strats along with slugging) aren't always necessary every single match or even at all against most swfs. As long as you can apply needed pressure by getting quick downs winning mind games pitting the survivors and autism against them you'll come out on top most games. Some games you won't because another hard pill to swallow is there are people that are better than you out there survivors that will cook you, because in a game like dbd you can't play perfectly on every map every time. Once you accept these things your time responding to these post using the "swf" Boogeyman will cede and your time stomping these worthy competitors will increase.
I usually never weigh in (I'm a super lurker lol) but I've seen this swf stuff too often in the last week or so. It's always you don't play enough killer etc etc. I have 1k hours on nurse (p100 perkless), 1.3k on huntress(p100 Perkless), and around 800 or so on Freddy (P25 perkless) about 200 on survivor total ( just recently started surviving seriously)
You're missing the target. SWF is inherently OP, that's not even up for debate, that is a genuine fact. This game and all it's mechanics were built fundamentally on 4 Survs not having communication and super coordination as a baseline, that again is not up for debate, that is a fact.
We don't see SWF's differently, you just refuse to acknowledge it because you benefit from it, big difference there buddy. You've seen SWF stuff more often because the issue is getting ridiculous, there is no reason that every person who plays this game outside of a SWF (includes both SoloQ Survs and Killer) should suffer because SWF players want to retain their advantages.
Again, I don't care for BHVRs warped stats that don't even count DC's, I'm not interested and it's completely dishonest for people like you to keep peddling them and it's also hilarious how you guys keep using stats that are useless.
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@Zakon05 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876378#Comment_3876378
Okay, I'm going to be a little mean here, but I think it needs to be said.
This game is not that serious. A lot of people regard it as a casual game. They just wanna play with their friends. Getting a PENALTY for playing with their friends is an absolutely absurd suggestion and will absolutely kill the game.
This discussion is laughable. Killers, even low tier killers, are favored to win against solo queue. And your answer is not to help solo queue but to drag SWF down to their level?
Like I'm sorry you lose sometimes but maybe it's not because you're facing a SWF, it's because you're just playing badly. SWFs don't have an amazingly higher escape rate than solo queue. And it's always hilarious when playing solo queue in a group that knows what it needs to be doing so well that it feels like we're a SWF, and then the killer whines at us for being a SWF. Like no man, we just played better than you and you lost, it happens.
The worst thing that could happen for people like you is for them to nerf SWF because then you lose the easy out to protect your ego.
So the games "not that serious" yet all of you are opposed to balancing out SWF because then you wouldn't be able to bully Killers as your form of fun which leads to how awful the game is for everyone else whos not playing SWF? Ight lol
At the end of the day, you guys will use any sort of cop out excuse to justify the piss poor state of the game which has been leading to much worse gameplay and the degradation of the entire game, yet you all sit here and wonder "Why are SoloQ Survs not playing or "going next" as well as "OH Geeeee, why could Killers be slugging/tunneling/camping everyone and why's it allowed to be used and abused as an imaginary strat?". The dissonance is crazy lol
SWF nerfs doesn't impede people playing with their friends, it doesn't prevent people from queuing up in their stacks; stop using that as a crutch talking point as it has no basis in reality. It would no more impede SWF gameplay than any other balance change this game has every had in the entirety of it's existence. Stop being selfish.
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@Zakon05 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876263#Comment_3876263
Nerfing people for playing with friends is a catastrophically bad idea.
Solo queue needs buffs. Like adding the portion of Kindred which allows you to see where your allies are while someone is on hook basekit, and implementing the anti-facecamp meter into the UI. Things which wouldn't really help SWF that much but would help bridge the gap between solo queue and SWF.
There are no buffs that are going to get SoloQ even close to SWF so that it actually matters. There is so so much that SWF on comms get. They give info about the Killer, where they are on the map, where that Hex totem is that they just ran by, what perks the Killer has by what they've seen in chase or on the map, what gens need to be done, are getting worked on and where gens are, what pallets are still up, what loops have spawned onto the map, what windows are closed or open.
There is so much that goes into it that all of you overlook or act as if it's "not a big deal" which is why the game gets balanced based off of SWF and as we can all see, it's been ruining SoloQ and creating toxic Killers who just want to ruin the games of Survs. Toxic gameplay all around and I literally cannot logically think of a reason that anyone would be advocating for anything other than direct SWF nerfs that isn't based in selfishness.
Like SWF nerfs would "punish" SWF yet everyone else, the majority of players in this game, are punished because of how broken SWF is rn and that is somehow okay. It's selfish.
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@WolfePhD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876268#Comment_3876268
At a certain point, we have to accept that people like to play video games with their friends … and are going to want to play video games with their friends. You acknowledge in your post that SoloQ players are unhappy with the game and killers use playstyles that are frowned-upon by the community. I don't understand why that is specifically an argument for why SWF should be nerfed, but I am willing to hear you out. The only difference in a SWF is they have the ability to communicate with each other. How would you nerf that? If I was a BHVR developer, I would read your post and think "Okay, they've identified a problem, but what is the solution?"
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876278#Comment_3876278
You brought up a valid concern, which is that you've experienced enough matches to notice a pattern of malicious behavior.
I am really trying to hear out your argument here, but there is something about arguing "Players that communicate are the #1 reason that Killers slug, tunnel, and camp" that does not sit right with me. What if killers do that … because they had a bad day in real life? Or because they are upset at the current state of the game? Or because they feel BHVR is not making changes fast enough? There's so much at play when it comes to how people think and behave. To say that every mean killer with an attitude problem acts that way specifically because they think SWF needs to be nerfed feels misguided.
Event queue even proves that because it's not like Survs are stacking meta perks in chaos queue or getting 2nd chance or gen perks that often yet Killers are still doing it.Yes, and the shortest Event Tomb to get to the finish for this Event Queue requires Survivors to escape a trial. Survivors are going to attempt that challenge instead of the others because it's the shortest path to really cool rewards. Survivors are going to bring their strongest add-ons and map offerings to finish their challenge. Killers observe this behavior from the survivors in their matches, and respond by bringing their strongest add-ons into the next game. A cycle has just been created that cascades throughout the player base as participants form opinions and continue to play matches. If that same behavior was mimicked in the normal queue, then you might have grounds for an argument—but you specifically identified Event queue as the only queue with the problem here.
Most people don't want to talk about the real issue this game has, though I see more and more people talking about it here and on other forums, though they still mostly get silenced by opposition.Everyone's behavior on the official forums are generally much nicer than the dark stinky sewers of Reddit. I also think people are talking about real issues the game has on here. The real issue you've discussed is "The Killer role does not feel lethal or effective when my opponents are allowed to communicate with each other." but doesn't consider the game is intentionally designed to be lost by Killers at least 30-40% of the time. To me, it really seems that some players have an issue with losing in general, in a game that is designed for them to lose sometimes—and somehow a completely separate game mechanic is pointed as the problem instead. It does not matter that survivors communicated with each other—if you won every game your playstyle should be reasonably nerfed.
Regardless of your skill expression on a killer, if the developers want to keep a killer at a certain winrate — that means you will lose.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876272#Comment_3876272
It's reasonable to apply the Principle of Parsimony (Occam's Razor) to Dead by Daylight. He is entitled to his opinion.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876273#Comment_3876273
From that vantage point, I see no good reason why some killers want to hard tunnel and camp in the early game.Smurf, I respect your opinion — but player behavior is influenced by more than just "I want to win this match."
- Is this the player's first match of the day? If they played previously, how did those matches go?
- Did a Survivors attempt to provoke the killer?
- Is there a tomb challenge guiding their behavior a certain way?
- I have intentionally slugged survivors at 5 generators because it was necessary to finish my tomb challenge.
The people who are tunneling and camping "because of SWFs" somehow magically find a new reason to tunnel and camp every month. They are only pointing the finger at SWF because certain content creators made it socially acceptable to behave that way. It is important we keep these players accountable by addressing the root problems causing their issues instead of nerfing the newest scapegoat on the block. If Event Queue is bad, we should begin by looking at what challenges each side was tasked to complete.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876279#Comment_3876279
Unnecessarily rude. People need space to learn and grow.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876285#Comment_3876285
Not much better to acknowledge and respond to it. You will never change someone's mind when they are defensive.
-Increase their gen times
-Can't stack same perks
-Can't bring in tools and have to use chests in the match to get tools or limiting what level of tools then bring into the match, like maybe just brown with no add-ons so that Killers can't determine who's SWF and who's not.
All of those wouldn't impact SoloQ gameplay as Surv and would just impact SWF solely. Buffing Survs just buffs SWF and nerfing Survs completely obliterates SoloQ. Likewise, Killer buffs impact SWF very little while destroying SoloQ and Killer nerfs impact SoloQ very little while buffing SWF a lot. So it's literally only logical that a targeted mechanic change for SWF is needed to compensate for their comms and the plethora of information and perks that they receive just by being on comms, whether each SWF plays with comms or not is irrelevant.
Three easy solutions to add to a PTB and see how it's received and what the vibe is, but really then Killers/Maps/Perks would have to be rebalanced as currently everything has been getting adjusted to deal with the current insanely OP SWF's. Which again, has been ruining SoloQ to near unplayable levels causing DC's and "going next" because all Killers are so titled that they do nothing but the optimum of unfun for Survs in order to have an enjoyable match for them. It's also been nerfing all Maps and features into bland versions of what they used to be.
The best part is, if SWF was nerfed with what I suggested above, then new mechanics for camping/tunneling/slugging could be implemented as Killers shouldn't really be doing any of that and the nerf of SWF would remove the reason it's in the game in the first place, which is to combat SWF.
SWF groups that don't thrive off bullying the Killer wouldn't be affected by any of this either, they'd still enjoy playing with their friends. Killers wouldn't be so so so justly angry and then would only have to deal with their skill instead of unfair circumstances that SWF bring currently, that cause all the nasty gameplay SoloQ gets the brunt of.
Better game for all.
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876263#Comment_3876263
I play more killer than survivor these days and have always played a decent amount of both roles. From that vantage point, I see no good reason why some killers want to hard tunnel and camp in the early game.
The only reason of any kind I can see for that behavior is that people doing those things are afraid they won't 'win' as often if they don't tunnel and camp someone out as fast as possible. The reason anyone has such a fear probably varies per person. It's also likely that some players want to make their opponents have a bad time, but hopefully that's a minority of cases.
I don't think swfs are a huge problem. Sometimes I'll see a group that shows signs of being a swf (lobby fills all at once, coordinated names and outfits, etc.), see a couple flashlights, a toolbox, a firecracker, and then decide whether I feel like that kind of match. I do agree that swfs are more likely to make annoying matches, but I'd say my win-rate against teams that appear to be bully squad swfs is better than my average win-rate. A good swf that pushes gens and are all good in chase with good game sense will give me challenges, but those are matches that challenge me to get better :)
Ultimately, I don't think swfs are a reason to tunnel/camp.
Claiming you don't see why Killers would do it so early in the game means you shouldn't be in this discussion until you play some more Killer and figure it out.
They do it because they are titled from the past matches against SWF's and then take it out on SoloQ or they do their best to start off games like that so that they easily can control the entire game. Killers rack up so many points doing it while Survs don't, but it's not even about the bloodpoints at the end, it's about salty players trying to ruin the game for others. I have many matches in SoloQ where the Killer has an entire slug build and just bleeds us out for 4 minutes at 5 gens, it's not hard to understand what would lead Killers to do that.
SWF are the entire reason that Killers slug/tunnel/camp and then carry that playstyle over to SoloQ, which has been leading to mass DCing and "going next", it's literally a fact. Event queue even proves that because it's not like Survs are stacking meta perks in chaos queue or getting 2nd chance or gen perks that often yet Killers are still doing it.
Killer do it because it's easy and stays in the game as a way to combat SWF which then trickles down to SoloQ and makes SoloQ unplayable. Ongoing issue for years now that's been getting worse and worse.
Again, IDC about winrates that BHVR releases with their skewed stats, I look at the actual game and what's going on and what actual players are saying about their experiences. Most people don't want to talk about the real issue this game has, though I see more and more people talking about it here and on other forums, though they still mostly get silenced by opposition.
If SWF was nerfed, Killers could be rebalanced and the game would be better for all. I have not read a single counter argument to that other than someone crying about the game wouldn't be fun for their SWF group if they weren't allowed to bully the Killer.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3876263#Comment_3876263
SWF at High MMR escape 48% of the time.
It is Killer v SWF v Solo
Killers tunnel because it is the easiest way to win the most often.
Nobody cares about made up stats and they sure don't reflect the actual game or the actual issues with the game. Everyone in soloQ is Dcing or going next and Killers are all slugging/camping/tunneling as maps/perks/loops get nerfed.
Killer tunnel because it's kept in the game as a way to deal with SWF which ruins the game for everyone else. Also to add, if SWF and SoloQ were in separate queues, do you think SWF would ever get a match? If not, why?
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Most people aren't ready for an actual discussion about it and BHVR sure aren't ready to actually do something about it. First step is to stop blaming Killers for it and look beyond that at what could possibly be causing them to camp/tunnel/slug. Better yet, go play Killer as much as you play Surv and go see what could possibly lead to Killers doing all of that.
Second step is to acknowledge that there are three classes of play in this game; Killer, SWF, and SoloQ. It's not Killer vs Surv, it's Killer vs SWF with SoloQ getting caught in the crossfire, leading to all the issue you described above.
SWF need to be nerfed and then everything else needs to be rebalanced around that, it would solve almost every single issue this game has.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3875589#Comment_3875589
You’re right, the stats are tilted. They don’t count matches with DCs. The kill rates are higher than BHVR says.
Much much much higher. The community overall lacks critical thinking though so it always get's glossed over. Same as how SWF is the core issue that's ruining the game for everyone else.
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I wish that SWF would get nerfed so that Killers could be rebalanced, maps could be rebalanced and perks could be rebalanced; so that finally SoloQ could be playable and playing Killer wouldn't be frustrating unless playing as one of the top Killers that ignore most game mechanics.
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SWF is ruining the game but also the only way to play the game. Killers have been overtuned, perks nerfed, maps nerfed and Surv in general has been nerfed into oblivion all in order to retain some sort of balance for Killers to compete against SWF, but it's ruined the game.
SWF need a hard nerf, not gen rushing or nerfing Survs across the board or nerfing Surv perks; SWF need a specific nerf.
-Their gen times need to be increased per SWF amount in party. They should have slower gen progression speeds.
-They shouldn't be able to repeat perks. So they all can't stack 2nd chance and other meta perks, they would have to bring in unique targeted builds.
-They shouldn't be able to bring in any tools. So they all don't go in with iri items and incentives them to interact with chests which will slow the game down a bit.
All of those changes would offset how quickly they get gens done from coordination and all the free perks they get just for being in a SWF. Those changes would not impact SoloQ playstyle. Then Killers/maps/perks will need to be rebalanced accordingly because most maps in this game suck now, as do most perks, and most Killers are overtuned to deal with SWF which completely destroy SoloQ.
Like I tried to play SoloQ event. Out of 8 matches, every single one had no gameplay because the Killer would just slug us all or tunnel us out immedaitly. The eight match, as I write this, the Killer DC'd because he was truly awful (kept whiffing all hits and badly was trying to slug us) and only had one hook by the time we had two gens left. Nerfing Survs in general will make SoloQ more unplayable and more miserable. Nerf SWF.
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It's not going to be until SWF is nerfed.
As a SoloQ surv I get paired with Survs who literally can't do anything, like people who heal under hook against an Artist, or don't know how to even loop a Wraith. Let alone when how I'm constantly getting P100 Blights/Billy/Nurse in my SoloQ matches, I legit just go afk when two people get downed in under 25 seconds. Most matches I can't even play the game for a minute straight. Very very very rarely do I have a match in SoloQ that is winnable and if so, there's a good chance the Killer will DC.
Then as Killer I get ultra coordinated SWF who max every loop, body block nonstop or try to blind nonstop…. or I get, rarely, a SoloQ lobby that I completely decimate. Either way I don't slug/camp/tunnel, but the game practically begs me to do it and most matches just suck. There is zero incentive to not do any of that, I just don't do it because I want to facilitate a fun game for all, but BHVR should fix that; however they can't touch that until SWF is nerfed since those are ways to crumble a mediocre SWF.
So I see how Killers get to that level where all they do is slug/camp/tunnel because most of their matches are against SWF who have an inherent unfair advantage and so they use those tactics. When it comes to SoloQ, they then release all that resentment from SWF matches, even though the SoloQ is going to fall apart without all that. Or they create entire builds centered around making sure Survs sit and do nothing for 5 minutes, because again, they have resentment from those SWF games.
It all comes back to SWF creating awful games that are ruining the balance of the game for everyone else.
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@JimbusCrimbus said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3875170#Comment_3875170
No base kit/automatic pickups. Survivors DO NOT NEED another base kit second chance. Behavior has TRIED this and it was an awful idea. The only objectively correct solution is a give up/faster bleedout. That's literally it.
And then what? Killers slugging ramps up even more and then there's 700 posts about Survivors "bleeding next" to get out of a miserable match.
The core issue is that the matches are miserable and Killers shouldn't be allowed to slug like that without heavy consequence, it's only viable as a reason to combat SWF so it's completely apparent that SWF need a hard nerf and Killer core mechanics need a rebalance.You can't keep bandaid fixing issues with issues that will cause more issues. Treat the source of the wound.
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@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3875355#Comment_3875355
This isn’t true. 4-men SWFs have an escape rate of 41% and are only 2-4% of all lobbies. They’re very rare and aren’t even breaking even with killers
Everyone quotes a different escape rate for SWF almost every single time it's brought up. IDC for BHVR's tilted stats anyway.
It's quite clear from a gameplay perspective that SWF is ruining this game for everyone else and has been for years and years. Maybe you guys will start listening when it gets so bad that BHVR puts bots in all the game modes, but by then it'll be too late and rightfully so.
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Because of SWF. Even in matches where the Killer is guaranteed to not go up against 4 players with 2nd chance or gen perks, they still tunnel/camp/slug because of SWF.
Those awful gameplay mechanics are not fixed by BHVR because of their viability against SWF since SWF inherently have an unfair advantage. Leads to Killers playing in matches where they are getting swamped by SWF and then they start tunneling/camping/slugging to win while being frustrated and that not only carries over into SoloQ, but Killer do it more in SoloQ to release that pent up rage from those SWF matches, since SoloQ literally can't do anything.
It's a cycle that starts and ends with SWF, yet most of the community can't discuss it and BHVR ignores it like the plague.
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I've been playing Sadako the entire event and this makes sense why the event queue seems to be harder than the regular queue despite the random perks, because TV placement is botched as #########.
Why hasn't this been fixed?