Roco45
Roco45
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The issue is SWF, it's not an issue with Surv in general or even Killer. SWF is ruining the game for everyone else.
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At the end of the day you can only blame BHVR for allowing SWF to ruin the entire game.
Just now, the last four games I played as Onyro, all against bully SWF where I could do nothing. Then the next match I get is SoloQ and they all DC after I get my first down and build up condemned, so I let all the bots escape while I go make coffee. Then the next match I play is against a toxic SWF that all DC the milisecond they ruined a sabo save with breakout, so again I go make something to eat while letting the bots do what they're going to.
Then I play Surv in SoloQ and I'm just faced with tunneling/camping/slugging Killers, P100 Blights letting everyone bleed out on the floor at 5 gens.
The game is beyond atrocious and the focus needs to be redirected to SWF mechanics ruining the game for everyone else and BHVR's refusal to do anything about it.
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@sanees said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3872268#Comment_3872268
This also applies to you, why are you complaining that the killer did not surrender while you did not surrender? I could say that you could have run out to the killer and the match would have ended, but you chose to hide for 30 minutes
You are literally accusing the killer of playing the same way as you. If this isn't hypocrisy I don't know what to call it
This is such an L comment. Maybe actually read what was posted above you, thanks!
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@beater15 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3871294#Comment_3871294
Killers do this to max out points for chases/hits, stop thinking the whole world is against you
Yea so do you really think that over half an hour in a match, the Killer wasn't maxxed out on everything besides sacrifice? The disassociated replies to my comment are actually kind of astounding.
I state a Killer held the game hostage for +30 minutes and was abusing a bot to prevent the next phase of the game that the Devs have designed to occur, then I get multiple replies on this thread rushing to defend the Killer lol Should anyone wonder why Surv outside of SWF don't want to play this game?
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3872408#Comment_3872408
You can just relite it oh my the dramatics. Yes use them. Didnt say rely on them. Perks arent meant to give 100% value all the time..
Yea let me relite the boon when I'm slugged lol Great idea, do you even play DBD?
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3872391#Comment_3872391
Boon Exponential. Play smart go down near the boon but not too close. Move it when needed. Also you shouldnt be just relying on perks. Looping is really important and of course which killers you are going against matters too.
Oh so a boon that the Killer can put out. Wow that's amazing, game altering lol
Anddd now you're saying Survs shouldn't rely on perks, but your prior reply was stating to use perks to counter slugging. Mmmmmm so you don't really have much to actually contribute lol
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@smurf said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3871927#Comment_3871927
This is false. If this actually happened, the killer intentionally kept hatch race from starting for longer than the duration of two normal matches. Meanwhile the last survivor was simply attempting to survive. As killer, I've never had survivors able to successfully hide for more than a few minutes. And in the case being discussed here, the killer took specific actions to draw out the game, specifically refusing to engage in normal gameplay.
If the killer had sacrificed the bot, hatch would have spawned and the game would have ended promptly. If the killer had left the bot slugged, hatch would have spawned when bleedout ended and the game would end after several minutes. If the killer just stood still and did nothing, the match would have ended by generators getting done because at least the bot would have finished them. The killer took very specific actions that drew the match out for an unreasonable amount of time.
Exactly! Like what am I expected to do? DC or throw the game? I was trying to maybe get hatch or make a break for the gates once they were powered, the intended next phase of the game lol
The Killer only did it because it was a bot and the bot was awful though I'm sure a person would have DC'd if they were that 2nd to last anyway. The other person is trying to make an excuse for something that is inexcusable and cast blame on me, the only one of the four who didn't DC and just wanted endgame.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3872285#Comment_3872285
Its an L response to bring a perk that helps you against slugging. Sounds like its a you issue not the killer.
What perk is going to stop a Killer from slugging everyone the entire match? C'mon quick, which perk is that?
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3872255#Comment_3872255
Yall take getting slugged too personal. There are various ways around it. You just to do the opposite. In most situations I see survivors do nothing to make it easier on themselves. As much as tunneling is used in this game you would use more anti slug perks.
That's an L response tbh. The only actual way around all that is to play in a SWF, but then Killers cry and it leads to more of the same. Can we say, cycle.
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@sanees said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/436579/knock-out
if your allies don't want to spend 10-15 seconds to find you or you don't want to crawl to your allies, then it's not killers/perks problem
I just don’t understand why you blame the killer on the fact that you lost the chase and your allies didn’t care about youYea because sitting on the ground or crawling around the map insanely slow is such riveting gameplay.
All for what, the Killer to rush back and immediately down everyone again to drag the game out longer?It makes sense, you are definitely the type of Killer making miserable matches that primarily affect SoloQ, so you get some sort of satisfaction from a fabricated power trip.
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@sanees said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3871294#Comment_3871294
So you hide, delaying the game for 30+ minutes while complaining that the killer is delaying the game? In this case, you were both ready to sit until the end and you are both to blame
Delayed the game? No wonder this community is the way it is with a response like yours hah How shameful for you.
Yea I was responsible for delaying the game so it could progress to endgame, like the Devs intended. The Lich definitely did not delay the game and abuse in-game mechanics to drag out an already miserable match. You’re right, I was supposed to DC just like the other 3 players did (though you strike me as the type of person to complain about DCing) or I was supposed to forfeit the match to “go next” (which you also strike me as the type of person to complain about that).
How tone deaf. -
@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3871233#Comment_3871233
This is an odd thing I've noticed as well. If I play with my usual 4 man, we get wildly overmatched killers. We've had multiple games in a row where killers get 0-3 hooks total. None of us have played comp since 2021 and we're running meme perks like Red Herring half the time.
If we play solo queue individually, we get the sweatiest killers of all time with teammates who often don't have their monitors turned on.
I know what the stats say about escape rates for solo queue. But it doesn't feel like I myself through my own merits am escaping 40% of the time. It feels like I'm escaping in the games that SBMM has decided I should escape to meet a quota, and I'm dying in the others because SBMM thinks there's also a death quota. Very rarely do the games feel like an organic back and forth between evenly matched opponents.
And we haven't had any communication about matchmaking in years, so I have little hope of this ever improving.
Have you considered it's because SWF is overpowered in this game and Killers can barely keep up, meanwhile SoloQ is a nightmarish hellscape of Killers releasing their losing SWF game frustrations out on SoloQ? Probably not lol
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Only #2 and 4# are valid, but that isn’t going to fix going next or dcing, they’re just things that BHVR should already have improved.
The hard truth is you aren’t going to force anyone to sit in a match that they aren’t enjoying and aren’t having fun in, in SoloQ. The reality is that currently, DBD has never been easier for Killers and Killers decimate SoloQ lobbies because they are over-tuned to deal with SWF.
Most of my SoloQ games someone goes next on hook or DCs. Almost every single one of my matches, a Surv is found immediately after spawning in and then downed 10 seconds later to which they are then camped/tunneled/slugged. The matches hardly have any actual gameplay, so people leave.The solution is for BHVR to actually make the game fun again and to finally address the imbalance of SWF. Every Surv buff outright buffs SWF and every Killer buff decimates SoloQ even more. BHVR needs to exclusively nerf SWF and then rebalance Killers/Maps/Loops/Gen placement to adjust.
They aren’t likely to do that though as they’ve let this issue fester for a decade and the problem has now gotten to such a level that it would be a huge undertaking. Not to mention that this community is so entitled that they’d rather force players to stay in horrible matches, rather than talk about ways to actually fix the game and do what a video game should do, facilitate fun.
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@joeyspeehole said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3871314#Comment_3871314
I feel like people often use SWF as a crutch in arguments. When they nerfed healing, they aimed to structure the gameplay towards teamwork. Do you want other examples? You either have teamwork perks or solo perks. The idea that behavior could detect and nerf SWF is absurd. Imagine people sitting in the same room? How would you detect that? Not everyone uses Discord. And if they found ways to nerf Discord users, people would just switch to a different platform.
None of that matters when SoloQ can't see the perk loadouts of every Surv in the lobby so that perks can be coordinated or lobbies can be dodged if a Surv is running bunk perks. Though if they were to add that, I suspect Killers would then complain and then Survs as a whole would be nerfed.
The reason SWF is so unfair is because of the immense teamwork that the game was never designed to have, that is literally why Killers don't want to play with SWF. That's common sense for anyone who has played this game for more than 5 hours.
What's absurd is people like you, unable to admit that there are three sides to this game where any buffs to Surv go right to the benefit of SWF and any Buffs to Killers go right to the detriment of SoloQ.
No one brought up discord. Gen times should be lengthened depending on SWF amount, they shouldn't be allowed to bring in tools and they shouldn't be allowed to repeat perks. Simple. Any rebuttal to that is just because you want to bully Killers and have easy games with your friends, which is costing the entire community.
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The issue at the core is SWF and over tuning Killers to compete with SWF. It's a circular issue that will never be fixed unless BHVR puts the effort into nerfing SWF by changing mechanics and then balancing out Killers/Maps/Loops once that is taken care of. The typical Surv experience, SoloQ, is unplayable and the worst it's ever been; the Killer experience is nothing but either sweaty or too easy (SWF vs SoloQ), both unsatisfying and built on toxicity.
Soon the game is just going to be filled with SWF groups and then Killer will drop off since most Killers just don't enjoy facing SWF as they currently are, doesn't matter how much BHVR nerfs maps for Survs and Buffs Killers.
It is beyond atrocious that currently in DBD, every match of SoloQ has someone immediately in a chase from the start because of mobility Killers and/or Lethal. To which then every match is just an unfun camp/tunnel/slug fest filled with "going next" or DCing because Killers are so tilted from playing against SWF.
BHVR should be embarrassed as Devs that they've let SWF ruin the entirety of the game over the years, without any effort into actually trying to improve the game for everybody.
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@I_Cant_Loop said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/436736/impossible-gaming-for-solo-queue
Average solo queue escape rate is 40%. If you’re consistently escaping at a far lower rate, then you should be focusing on improving your own skills rather than demand that survivors be buffed/and or killers be nerfed.
You're ignoring that DC's don't count in stats and the majority of SoloQ games have DC's. So really that 40% is an inflated stat of the best SoloQ players, not reflective of the actual player base.
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I had a match against a Lich today that was tunneling/slugging/camping; all three Survs DC'd so I was left with all bots. I just evaded the Killer to make it to end game, except the Lich killed two of the bots and then dragged out the match for +30 minutes with the last bot.
Kept downing the bot, picking the bot up and letting the bot wiggle free to just constantly repeat the process. So the bot couldn't bleed out and the bot couldn't do gens. The Lich did this for +30 minutes until I just finally went afk and then even when I came back, the Lich had us both slugged and bleeding out.
The game is atrocious right now and just incentivizes awful toxic gameplay on both sides.
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@Chaogod said:
I don't understand where the enjoyment comes from using a perk that plays the game for you. It guides you to exactly where you need to go. Where is the fun when you don't need to think about your chases at all?
It gives more than that. With it, I can see Survs throwing down pallets and Killers breaking them when in chase, so I can see where the Killer is if I don't have direct los. It's great in SoloQ to see what pallets are still up as well and above all else, it visibly shows how nerfed most maps are now with complete dead zones everywhere.
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@Alen_Starkly said:
I think we shouldn't look at single matches in isolation, but at the accumulated bad experiences throughout multiple matches. A person who gives up when they're the first to go down probably has to do with them having had several bad matches before this one. They were probably hard-tunneled. Yes, that person should have closed the game and taken a break. But many people sadly don't do that. They want to end on a good match.
With the accumulated stress (throughout mulitple matches) in mind, we could look at the problems. Why is it still so easy for a killer to tunnel someone out of the game before anyone else is hooked a single time? There should be a system that doesn't let that happen (specifically: tunneling someone out before a single hook on any of the 3 other survivors).
Then, the chain leads to the next issue: many killers hardcore tunnel because they've had matches where 2 or 3 gens got done before they managed to find anyone, down them and hook them. This is where something like basekit Corrupt Intervention would do wonders.
The game becomes better when certain things become basekit. Basekit corrupt intervention would minimize awful scenarios where gens just fly at the start of the game. Basekit hardcore tunnel prevention would do wonders for survivors. And again, it's enough to only protect a survivor before any of the other 3 are hooked once. Then the system could get disabled for the rest of the match.
The only way this situation gets any better is if SWF have their mechanics changed. Gen repair penalties depending on how many are in the SWF party, not being able to bring in tools, and not being able to bring in the same perks.
Any buffs to Killer will continue to ruin the game for those not in SWF and any flat out buffs to Surv will continue to ruin the game for Killers and embolden SWF even more.
There are three sides to DBD and it's about time BHVR starts actually balancing them out instead of ruining the game all for SWF.
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Yea! Which is why I suggest multiple game mechanic changes to SWF that would balance out all the information they get just by playing together.
Also I firmly believe that tunneling/camping/slugging should be highly punishable, with the Killer receiving not only little bloodpoints, but in ways that the game mechanics heavily punish it. That can't happen though in the current state of DBD since SWF are insansely unfair, which again just ruins the gameplay for everyone else.
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@kit_mason said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3870912#Comment_3870912
I also don't care about your personal stats, you already have shown you're biased.
This conversation has proven unsalvageable. Bye.
No, that's just your contribution, not the actual discussion. There's plenty of people on this thread and on the forums that are open to actual discussion, instead of just trying to shut down every single conversation because of their own personal bias.
You've stated not only actual counter argument to how adjusting SWF mechanics would negatively impact the entire game and instead deferred to "It would just make me feel bad. Punishment bad :(".
@ShanoaLegendaryPlz said:
I tend to play the same way on both sides as you mentioned. Usually just bringing an altruistic healing build and helping people out where i can, barely ever touch flashlights unless im playing alan wake. 90% of the soloq survi or rounds are exactly as described, it gets quite tiring when the killer just mows someone down off the hook (usually me) till im dead and then its prettymuch hopeless and over and everyones bored and mad except the guy that caused the situation. And then on killer im either wiping the floor with people all the time or getting a swat team that might as well be playing for some championship and everyones experienced those by now lol the only in between would be an incompetent bully squad. But yea, its getting pretty sad that you only ever enjoy about 5% of your matches (in the entire day of playing). The soloqs blame the killers for playing how they do, the killers blame the swfs for playing how they do, the swfs just have fun while the other 2/3rd arent having a good time. Would be nice to see them change just something about swf so that its not causing this chain reaction. ill admit i play with my friend for about 2 days of the week, but they are kind of newer to the game and we end up with the soloq experience anyway.
Exactly! If SWF was changed, then Killers could stop being buffed and overtuned to deal with the most co-ordinated SWF as they exist in the game right now. That would in turn make balancing easier and more fair so Killers, SoloQ matches and bad SWF groups wouldn't be "punished", as some people like throw that word around lol
The entire game rn revolves around a very very very small percentage of the community and it's abhorrent how that's been allowed to continue ruining the game.
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@vol4r said:
Oh yeah, I tried solo que for past 2 weeks and it's terrible experience that I don't want to be part of.
I don't play without 3 people in my lobby anymore.
I am literally shocked why bhvr doesn't work on solo que experience, that should be really a priority because at that point bot filled lobbys will happen soon.
There is no way to buff SoloQ that SWF also wouldn't benefit from, which is why SWF needs to be mechanically changed so that it affects SWF and not SoloQ.
Longer gen times makes logical sense. Gens fly by in general, but especially with SWF coordination. Not being able to bring in tools and having to scavenge for tools, makes sense. It would entice SWF to spend time opening chests/bringing in perks for chests/offerings for chests. Not being able to repeat perks, makes sense. No more bully squads and all running the same 4 meta perks to slog the game down for Killer. All changes that would be quid pro quo for the advantage of being in a SWF. Killers right now are overtuned for SWF, if SWF would get changed, Killers should be reworked to balance everything out.
There are more Killer and SoloQ players than SWF, it makes no sense to ruin two out of three sides of a video game. The least BHVR could do is make some changes and release it on the PTB to see how it fairs.
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@Rokku_Rorru said:
6.1.0 was annoying, Dead Hard a perk beloved by many coz of what you could do with it was taken away from survivors, new DH I'd argue is more unhealthy for the game 0.5s endurance which is actually 2 seconds coz of the awful server tick.
But tbf I like the game still, it's just with all the buffs/nerfs and the ######### servers it feels awful, they need to fix the servers and networking and it'd be a much different game.Nah they need to start actually putting effort into balancing out SWF, which in turn would make overall balancing easy and then you wouldn't have the majority of the playerbase hate playing this game because SWF makes every other gameplay aspect, miserable.
The severs do feel awful though and hitreg is insanely bad in this game.
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@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3870338#Comment_3870338
I don't understand why you think it's "pointless" without disconnects included in the stats.
Given that survivors are generally more likely to disconnect, even by accident, and an early disconnect will usually mean the game is over already. So including disconnects is only going to show a higher kill rate across the board.
Now, including disconnects does show what the player base experiences as far as kill rates, so that might be interesting to see.
But I didn't think the current way they do it is "useless" by any means. The devs are correct to not balance around disconnect kill rates either, which is why they throw them out.
Let's be real, DCing "by accident" is incredibly low, stating otherwise is a fallacy made to try and refute what's actually happening. There are DC's that happen because of BHVR's servers, but that also is low. The majority of DCing, is from Survs placed in miserable matches or Killers placed in matches outside their skill set.
The reason that the Killrates mean nothing without the DC's, is because as I said, SWF likely don't DC because they stick out the match with friends, most of their games count towards stats. SoloQ has people DCing the majority of games, so the stats for SoloQ are completely skewed since SoloQ Survs stay in matches that are heading towards a win, not matches where they are being slugged/camped/tunneled…. which is on the rise.
BHVR could release completely separate stats of DC rates between SoloQ and SWF vs what Killers. They wouldn't do that though, as the numbers for SoloQ would be astronomical, which is why we have DC penalty times for a casual party game, that go from 15 minutes to +6 hours between two DC's and then 24hrs. You don't have DC penalties that severe unless a good portion of the playerbase was DCing.
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@vol4r said:
Hopefully they do something before all surviviors decide to stop playing
I don't think all will, but at a certain point it'll just be mostly SWF's and then Killers will hate the game even more. Rn SoloQ Surv is unplayable and when it's not unplayable, it's just a completely awful experience.
@kit_mason said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869703#Comment_3869703
It's a shame to see you presume malice in my words instead of just assuming that we disagree on the topic. Ad hominem attacks are all too common, but I will meet you at these accusations.
To do so, I'll provide some background. In the last 3 months, I have played 170 matches of SoloQ survivor - around two a day, albeit split into chunks of 3-5 games at a time. In that set of 170 matches, I've won 40% of them (0k, 1k) and drawn a further 8% (2k) - feel free to compare to your experiences to understand where I'm coming from for my SoloQ experience. As for SWF, I do play with friends from time to time, but I'm no bully. I run Object of Obsession, a perk I very thoroughly enjoy (and run in SoloQ as well), despite it being near-objectively a bad perk.
I consider your suggestions to be a punishment because they create two experiences of playing survivor - one where you play normally in Solos, and one where you play with many hands tied behind your back in SWF. You cannot run items, you cannot have the same taste in perks as your friends, and most importantly gen completion is made even more tedious, as you have to push not only through slowdown but also through a gen speed debuff limitation set upon you by the devs. Nerfs, by themselves, are not punishments. But creating an entire secondary, lesser experience for SWF simply for the sin of wanting to enjoy some matches with your friends is a punishment, especially when BHVR's own stats would imply that SWF outcomes are not hugely better than Solo outcomes are.
Please do not skip over that last part. Solo and SWF outcomes, according to BHVR, are not largely different. When we recieved stats on this last year, it was clear that only a tiny fraction of players experience major outcome changes playing in Solo vs playing in SWF. Balancing around this tiny percentage would cause more harm than good, as it would bring down SWF escape rates for All MMR.
To sign off I'll confirm that I would happily break down that bigger paragraph, but I want to wait for your reply to this message first, if that's okay. Given you have dedicated both a full response and an aside to making disparaging comments about me, I would prefer to minimise my wasted time if this conversation proves unsalvageable.
Look, the Stats that BHVR release don't really matter, they don't count DC's. SWF don't DC because they stick out the match together, meanwhile almost every SoloQ match has a DC, so it doesn't count towards any Stat; most SoloQ matches that add to the Stat are ones that go incredibly well. BHVR should release stats about the DC rate between SWF and SoloQ vs what Killers.
Also, it's just ironic that you stated playing SWF with the mechanics I suggested, would be like playing with your hands tied behind your back lmao Like read the room bud, SoloQ is an awful experience that is worse than having your hands tied behind your back, the majority of the time there's literally no gameplay. Or considering my suggestions as "creating two experiences of playing Surv" as if SoloQ and SWF already don't do that with SoloQ being severely nerfed in the current game.
That's precisely why you come off as completely biased and aren't here to have an actual discussion. You keep refuting my suggested mechanics with your feelings, not based on anything objective. I also don't care about your personal stats, you already have shown you're biased. If the mechanics I suggested would somehow make the game not fun for SWF, then they are bully squads, why would anyone care about any of what suggested if they wanted to have fair matches with their friends that weren't at the complete detriment of everyone else? There is no reason.
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BHVR's stats are pretty pointless when they don't factor in DC's. Chucky is one of the top Killers that players DC from. If I'm in SoloQ and it's a Chucky, someone DC's. If I pick Chucky to play Killer, Survs DC. The ones that stick out the match are usually SWF.
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Yea the aura reading is ruining the game. Killers have Aura perks for literally every single action and then some, ontop of most Killers being released with some form of Killer instinct in their basekit so they're already getting constant information anyway.
All of this coupled with immensely smaller maps, less loops, unsafe pallets if any, no fog, and bad gen placement, it has been making Survivor abhorrent to play. Every single match of SoloQ, someone is in chase less than three seconds after start. Lethal Persuer on high mobility Killers is also laughably bad balance as most times Survs spawn in complete dead zones and there's no way to prepare.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869686#Comment_3869686
- People already aren't playing DBD, they are queueing up and then someone "goes next" and then everyone sits in a miserable game
- The games are miserable because people are going next, there aren't that many matches that you don't want to be in, its just someone gives up so quick every time.
- Killer queues are already bad if you want to play a normal game, i don't count matches where someone "goes next" as a game
- Yes it is, running into the killer is bannable, they can detect people not progressing the game because crows are a thing that exist. They can detect missed skill checks. Yeah you might say "they might be bad" that's true. But if the system detects someone with 4k hours missing every single skill check in multiple games, obviously that is a sign that something is going on.
- Per the data, nurse and spirit are BELOW average in terms of killer, so not sure what you are on about there. Billy is slightly above average and blight is still a bit above that, but not too far off from the average. If you want to talk about overpowered killers per the data, they need to be nerfing freddy it looks like.
Think about this, if everyone just "went next" in 1 out of every 10 games, that doesn't seem like much does it? But now, each player on your team has a 10% chance to "go next" which means that statistically 35% of your games someone "goes next" That is a serious problem.
Hey bud, almost every match someone already is going "next", it's not one in every ten games, it's literally every or every other match lol
Also it's funny when people bring up Killer stats, yet BHVR doesn't factor in DCing and in most of my SoloQ matches someone DC's so most of my SoloQ matches aren't getting added into any statistics you love to quote about Kill rates. Like maybe Nurse/Billy/Blight killrates are so underrepresented because most people are DCing. Which is why the stats BHVR released about the escape rate between SWF and SoloQ are inflated because most SoloQ matches aren't getting factored in since someone DC's. Shocker I know. SWF are likely to stay in matches.
The bottom line is this game is going to keep hemorrhaging players until all that is left is SWF and angry Killers. BHVR should be focusing on bringing fun back to the game; changing SWF mechanics and then re-balancing Killers/Maps/Perks. They won't do that though, that would require immense effort, so they'll keep milking DBD since they know they won't have another successful IP without it being attached to DBD.
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@kit_mason said:
What is common is that most SoloQ (with 4 randoms) matches are a waste of time with almost 0 actual gameplay and near 0 bloodpoints
Is it truly that common? My SoloQ winrate (0k/1k) is hovering 40%, with another 8% in draws. That's about half of my matches where we get at least someone out of a gate - i.e. succeeding at the stated goal for survivors.
Then as Killer… …being matched with SoloQ Survs is such a slaughter
You have no confirmaton that they are Solos at any point. The only way you could ever presume this would be circular reasoning - "i won, must be solos". You can know when players are partied sometimes but you cannot for-sure confirm that a group is a SWF or a solo squad in any given match you play.
I try my best to just evade the Killer until endgame collapse is done; Killers also get extremely salty in endgame chat over it, so it justifies me more to do it.
us vs them, truly a continued dead horse of all time. "When the killer wastes my time, it's awful, but when I waste theirs? a-ok! They did it first!" Break the cycle, something you want to happen as we'll see shortly anyway.
Overall the game seems to be going in an awful direction fueled by extreme salt and trying to make the other party miserabe [sic]
…something you admit to perpetuating. As I just said. Break the cycle.
why has BHVR been focusing on buffing Killer and Nerfing Surv perks
This is simply untrue. Instead they've, in general, been decreasing overall perk impact in the game. We can see this in the downward trend of the power of both second chance (DH, DS nerfs, etc) and slowdown (Pop, Pain Res, Eruption nerfs, etc) since their additions to the game. This is good, as it brings the game to a level where meta and non-meta are closer in scale to one another.
nerfing maps (making them smaller, taking out loops, unsafe pallets, dead zones)
Plenty of maps maintain their position as survivor-sided. All five of Badham's variants, both maps in Withered Isle (provided you approach Greenville Square with proper macro), I could go on. Making them smaller does have an added effect of making killer more bearable on these maps, I don't deny that, but maps are in a better place than they were.
Why are you comfortable ruining the game for almost everyone else involved instead of being open to balance changes that would benefit the entire game and the community?
Because your upcoming suggestions would worsen overall game health. Speaking of…
I'd propose that SWF shouldn't be able to repeat perks in their loadouts [and] shouldn't be able to bring in any tools
This doesn't achieve what you want it to achieve. You're right in that it would expand the meta perk list into 16 perks, but it would also come with the implication that SWF are meant to be playing the game very seriously, as their loadouts come with heavy restriction. The game is meant to be for-fun, so restricting what a player can bring into the match sends a blurry message of the intent behind matches. No items starting out also outright kills a good chunk of item-focused perks (any 2v8 SWFs will confirm that sometimes the chests just dont give you what you want), which would further a stale meta for SWF of perks that are strong and guaranteed to bring in-match value.
But most importantly, only one player being able to bring one of each antitunnel, and only one player outright being able to have Unbreakable furthers unhealthy strategies for the killer, as a lobby with no items likely means they can slug and tunnel relatively unpunished. From the perspective of improving the game, throwing SWF onto a funeral pyre where they are for-free forced to eat unhealthy strategies seems like a terrible idea.
[SWF] should have their gen progression speeds changed depending on how many are in the SWF party
This is just outright punishment for playing with your friends, which you admit is the stated goal. And I want to pose a thought - that perhaps SWF is more important to the game than this would imply? If you punish SWF significantly enough, many groups are simply not going to have fun playing the game, and will quit, worsening the game's long-term prospects.
Look, if you want to have an actual discussion, then we can have one. This response of yours though, is not that, it's not even an attempt at that.
You state that mechanic changes to SWF would be a punishment, that already tells me that you aren't here to have an actual good faith discussion. Every single nerf in DBD is a punishment then, but we know that logically it is not and is an effort to maintain a balance so that everyone can enjoy the game.
You obviously play in a SWF and don't want the benefits of that to be lessened in an effort to make the game better for everyone else, you should work on your bias and see past yourself.
I could break down how as you say, 16 meta perks, is better than the same 4 being used every single match. Or how SWF shouldn't be able to bring in tools and would incentivize them to bring in coin offerings or spend time on chests or bring in perks related to item rarity. How increasing SWF gen times is something every Killer would like since gens flying by is the #1 complained about issue that Killers have and SWF offers a type of coordination that DBD was never meant to have. Then you state that all of this would make the game "stale" for SWF, when logically it would do the exact opposite and increase the unpredictability of their match.
Overall it's giving that you enjoy bullying Killers in your SWF and you'd like to not give that up. That's not very cool.
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@sickdeathfiend said:
I agree, I experience the same sort of things. Soloq survivor is an unplayable slog. Killer is now too easy and boring. Game is going to straight up die at this rate, no idea what the devs are thinking other than they dont care or are not paying any attention to what's happening. Might be bad leadership who knows, but they keep making it worse so I give up hope they know what they are doing or will fix anything.
Since they refuse to give soloq any sort of comm wheel or comms of any kind, I agree swf and soloq should have different under the hood rules to even it out. Somethings gotta be done because the game is awful right now.
I don't really think they have a plan besides band-aid fixes with paid perks and constant IP DLC to generate them money. If they had any sort of actual sense for development, they'd be working on getting the core game to a healthy state. They're also backed up by some of the community who will just ride along with them no matter what or because those players don't want their specific advantages taken away.
For instance the person above me, didn't really add anything the discussion besides "This wouldn't work the way you want because I said so", which is just a fallacy created to undermine any critique and suggestions for actual change that would be beneficial. Like they drone on and on about how changing SWF mechanics would make the game too serious for them, meanwhile SoloQ is literally in a state of scorched earth lol Or how mechanic changes are punishments, but all the nerfs Survs have received because of SWF or somehow not punishements lol
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869605#Comment_3869605
But if people are killing themselves on hook to get out of the game fast anyway and this happens more often than not, then why even bother queuing up to play the game.
And again, this isn't about "tunneling or camping" or anything like that. People will just kill themselves at the slightest thing, unless you are playing perkless trapper people are still gonna give up. And even then, some content creators were doing an experiment where they did just that and they STILL had people give up immediately. Like what do you want from people at this point?
That's the thing, people literally aren't playing SoloQ Surv as much anymore and queue times are getting longer. Yea people like to spout that Survs will kill themselves over "anything", but generally that's not true and it's due to Surv being in such an awful state that people don't want to sit in a losing match that has no benefits or gameplay, not even bloodpoint wise.
The vast majority of my SoloQ matches, someone either DC's or kills themselves on hook because the Killer is tunneling them out at 5 or 4 gens. It;s happening almost every single match. There's also a ton of nonstop slugging going on and people quickly DC out of that, not even caring about the DC penalty, because it's just not fun. Then Killers getting buffed to such insanely easy levels to be able to compete with SWF with the constant map nerfs and Surv perk nerfs, SoloQ has been decimated.
As other people brought up some good points. I see a lot of high mobility Killers using Lethal Persuer every single match and aside from Killers literally spawing ontop of Survs rn in most of these small maps anyway, with Lethal they B-Line to Survs who most times spawn in dead zones. So someone goes down 10 seconds later because there's literally nothing around and then they are camped or tunneled to death; it's not fun so they go next in the hope that the next match is fun. Then we have all these anti-loop Killers yet theres hardly any actual loops left in the majority of maps. I run WoO and it's crazy how most times there's not a pallet or window anywhere.
Also, all this talk about how Survs shouldn't be DCing or giving up on Hook because they should be considerate of the players in the match… is ironic. When people bring up how Killers are tunneling/camping/slugging it always get thrown around how Killers don't owe anyone a playstyle or shouldn't care about the fun of other players. Yet Survs get thrown under the bus and blamed for not wanting to be held captive in an awful game facilitated by awful Killers.
I play Killer just as much as I play SoloQ and I don't have anyone DC or give up on hook in my matches, I also never slug/tunnel/camp because it's skill-less and as the power role, I want to facilitate a good match that's engaging.
So many people here want more punishment for Survs when all that is going to accomplish is killing the game and having the majority of Surv players being SWF and judging by how many Killers lobby dodge if I spawn into a lobby with 3 other players who are on the same system as me so they think we are a SWF, they definitely wouldn't like most matches being against SWF.
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The hard truth that a lot of people don't want to talk about, is that the epidemic is because generally Surv is in the worst state it's ever been in. Sure the game is fun for SWF, because you're playing with friends, but in general, SoloQ is miserable and the worst it's ever been.
Every Killer is prepping for the worst match of their life (for good reason since SFW are unbalanced) and plays like they're expecting it, camping/tunneling/slugging. Maps have been nerfed and Surv perks have been nerfed while Killers basekits have been buffed/re-worked with buffs.
If BHVR tries to punish giving up on hook, the game will lose players incredibly quickly. You cannot force players to give up their most valuable resource, their time, when they're not having fun. Video games are for fun, not for being forced to afk or participate in miserable experiences otherwise they get a DC pan of three days.
What BHVR can do, is try to make the game more fun. Changing SWF mechanics to bring SWF more in line and close the gap of SoloQ vs SWF so that balancing overall is easier instead of changing everything to give Killers an edge over a 4-man sweat squad. There's a lot of ways to go about it, but players don't want to give up their unfair advantages, on both sides, and SoloQ regular Survivor players are getting all the punishment.
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Posts like this are hilarious given that Killers have so many aura reading perks at this point, they don't even have to actually look for Survs… not that they really need to anyway with all the crap map reworks. A killer sharting shows Surv aura's for 5 seconds, 10 seconds when they stand still to wipe the cheeto dust off their fingers, but yes, nerf WoO because it shows information on what window or pallet is around lmao
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3607585#Comment_3607585
Not sure wheee you're getting, "the game was not built with SWF in mind" because that's not true.
It's completely true. Unless you can provide some evidence that the game launched with SWF or mentioned SWF anywhere back in EA. The game was literally advertised as a 1v1v1v1v1 with no communication and stuck to that for a while. Aside from that, it's also mind numbingly true if you rub two brain cells together and take a hard look at the games foundational mechanics and current mechanics. It's really not rocket science to look at the dozens of perks that are useless because of SWF's, both on the Survs side but more importantly on the Killers side.
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@JPLongstreet said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3607585#Comment_3607585
The devs have stated many times in the past that SWF was always intended, and that as launch neared they could either have KYF mode ready or SWF mode, and went with KYF. Very soon after they added in SWF.
What I will say is I believe they strongly underestimated how use of comms & the ability to choose your mates could and did effect the game. The very things that allowed DBD to grow so fast and far, along with all the licenses.
You mean after SWF was released they said it was always intended? Oh wow, that totally clears that up lmao The game sold in 2016 as a niche asymmetrical horror game that was advertised as being a 1v1v1v1v1 where cooperation wasn't needed on the Surv side but encouraged, with a heavy focus on having limited information. I should know, that's when I bought the game. Yea that totally sounds like a game that had SWF in mind while developing it, totally backed up by all the Surv Aura perks that SWF have as basekit simply by being in a SWF as well as all the Killer perks that SWF completely negate lmao
SWF was a mechanic change to sell more copies and thus it did. Nothing more, nothing less.
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@H2H said:
Being in a SWF gives you an average 15% greater chance to escape, per BHVR’s own stats. It’s not an imaginary problem. I don’t know what the solution is, but let’s stop pretending like it’s just bad killers making excuses.
Why do people even quote stats anymore like this? DC's don't count, right? So every single game that players DC from, isn't counted.. and there is a lot of DCing that happens in this game. Are there any stats BHVR has released showing how many games there is at least one DC in?
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OFC SWF is a problem, the game was not built with SWF in mind and the foundation game mechanics that the entire game has been built on for almost a decade, completely contradicts SWF. Even worse, it's completely destroyed this community since Killers hate Survs because they often verse SWF, SWF's troll the Killer and anyone who wants to play as Surv with one friend or in SoloQ is heavily punished for it. Soloq is literally unplayable, it's an alt tab simulator. SWF literally null and voids dozens of Surv perks that were intended for years to be based around extremely limited information; which is also why there's so many ######### Killer Aura reading perks *oop the killer farted, show Surv auras for 15 seconds in a 40m radius*.
It's also hilarious that anytime a mechanic is proposed to deal with SWF people cry "But I shouldn't be punished for playing with friends", like babe, every video game is constructed around game mechanics and new ones need to be developed to alter SWF play to balance the game overall in a healthy way. There's a few ways to do that, that BHVR could implement:
- Limit the amount of perks available to SWF, to limit them all running the same meta perks in ultra coordination.
- Increase gen time and amount to do depending on SWF party.
- Rework the perk tree to change perk % values depending on how many players are in a party.
- Add optional voice comms to SoloQ
As a player since 2016, I can boot up the game in 2023 as Killer to either get ultra sweaty SWF players or SoloQ which I release all my frustration out from my prior SFW games and so I torment them. If I want to play as Surv I can get my friends together and we get easy games based off farming the Killer or I can play SoloQ and be alt tabbed playing a different game because I have no interest in playing against tunnelers/campers/bots (Surv Bots as when I play SoloQ almost every single game their is a DC).
The game is in a triangular down spiral and has been for years: SWF>Killer>Surv. Three separate groups within this games community when only two of those groups were intended from the start.
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@MoNosEmpire said:
It's usually down to being bad at looping. If you can't loop well enough then you'll most likely get destroyed in SoloQ. I mostly play SoloQ now and that's what I've noticed. Matches aren't always the best but you live and learn, or in this case you die and you learn. Teammates don't always do gens or come for a unhook or are scared and hiding but they're trying their best. That's all you can honestly ask for. If you take this game serious then you'll always be mad when in soloQ.
@UndeddJester So the exact same thing that happens in every other game?
No it's not, its down to every single aspect. This isn't the game BHVR sold to the public back in 2016 that was touted as a 1v1v1v1v1, that's long gone, yet still half the community has to deal with all the old outdated gameplay mechanics that were put into place to facilitate a non team game.
The moment that SWF was introduced, BHVR should have implemented either SWF nerfs or SoloQ communication to buff it up close to SWF. They did neither of that and the game suffers because of it and will always suffer because of it. Now I have no issue with SWF because anytime I play with my friends, the Killers usually DC from frustration; so it's just so stupid from a gameplay perspective to see SWF outcompete Killer so Killer destroys SoloQ as collateral and BHVR allows it. When SWF and SoloQ should really be close to the same and then Killers should be balanced around that.
It's really not that difficult and there's been many other asymmetrical games that have done it right, but ultimately fail because DBD has honestly stifled the genre for the worse.
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@kit_mason said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/399321/soloq-is-trash-fix-it
I've said it once and I'll say it again - voice comms will not fix DBD. Not in the slightest.
It might help sometimes, in lobbies on NA where many people speak English, and in lobbies with four people willing to talk to win. But in games where not everyone wants to talk, or in regions with a larger variety of spoken langauge, or where people have different mindsets, comms will do nothing, and if the game is rebalanced around comms those games will be harder and feel even worse than they already do.
Beyond that, I'd like to see how many of your actual games contain three bots. I can see one DC every once in a while, maybe two. But three, regularly? I doubt it.
Sorry, but every other asymmetrical game in existence disagrees with you on voice comms. You can stamp your wittle feet over the proposed addition to voice comms, but voice comms would absolutely help SoloQ.It would give players the choice of further cooperation that is impossible for SoloQ currently, but the game unironically relies on since SWF is what everything is balanced around.
Even just two people in SoloQ on a team talking, would benefit the team. Hell, even just one person talking and 3 being non responsive but still listening and taking in that info would be leagues better than anything that is possible right now.
Also the majority of my games I'm getting three bots and just about every single game there is DC. There is something seriously wrong with the game if near every single match of SoloQ there is at least one DC.