Roco45
Roco45
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M1 Killers are outdated and also are the most susceptible to all the cheating going on, there's so much cheating, so most people don't play them anymore as what would be the reason? Either you encounter cheating or SWF squads that ruin the match with the occasional SoloQ match.
lmao I've been playing Tombstone/Tuff Myers with enduring and spirit fury, there's been many many instances where a Surv will be right in front of the pallet and enduring cuts that time by 50% so I'll be moving through the broken pallet 1 second later with the surv directly on my groin, but then I get to watch as they use their speed hacks to boost them to the next pallet or window, often more than 15m away lol I usually DC and ofc in endgame, not one Surv has anything in their Kit to facilitate that, like smash hit.
I just had a match like that. Someone was playing that new surv, they were my first chase, they pallet stun me twice. I eat those two pallets and earn my spirit fury and on the third pallet stun after spirit fury took it and enduring cut that time to 1 second, I was directly behind the Surv and watched them get faster to outreach me and then go back down to getting slower and then faster again, like pulsating speed, all the way 15-20m to the next pallet. I dc'd and their SWF tried to flame me in the chat as if they were legit.
It's no surprise given the game climate, Killers pick the easiest and strongest Killers.
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Nah the fatigue cancel also needs to be increased. Most of these maps have been gutted to have majority dead zones, save for a very few maps. It's incredibly cheap for him to dash across the map at you to take a health state and then dash cancel while you're surrounded by literally nothing since you made no distance.
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@cheapslurpiee said:
What do you call an online PVP game that includes a "team" aspect into it as a core mechanic, adds in additional abilities dedicated to teamwork and camaraderie, but breaks or is complained about if said team communicates with one another and is good at being what they were designed to be?
Because if that were really the case, then Survs should be able to have in game voice comms and also be able to see eachothers loadout in the lobby with the game balanced around that. You don't see the balance fallacy of what you posted? SWF can be on comms while other Survs cannot be, the game can't balance out 3 different (SoloQ, SWF, Killer) sides while masquerading two of those sides (SoloQ and SWF) as being on equal footing when they're actually polar opposites in terms of gameplay.
They're refusal to add actual teamwork mechanics that all players can utilize and theyre refusal to nerf the teamwork mechanics that SWF get, is why the game is atrocious rn for everyone aside from a 3-4 man SWF.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909960#Comment_3909960
Could you specify the difference between what you mean when you say punishments but not balance?
Like the meat of what was brought up in that "health" patch. DC penalties for Survs that "go next" as that doesn't affect SWF, in fact DC penalties of any kind don't really pertain to SWF in DBD since they stay in the matches with their friends. The proposed hiding nerf also hits SoloQ survs, especially late game SoloQ matches, while it doesn't matter to a SWF.
All in all, majority of changes and proposed changes just make SoloQ more unfun and more riddled with issues, while not addressing in the slightest why SoloQ is the most unfun gaming experience in a PVP game and why no one wants to be in these matches. Not to mention all the ways the game has become watered down thanks to SWF not being touched in a decade, from maps to perks to Killers. -
@thedeafmime said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909745#Comment_3909745
True… however, what about the beta testing? Was it for nothing? Or to collect data on how they think sales will go after negative feedback except for those that play him?
BHVR releasing OP DLC Killers to boost DLC sales that they then nerf after initial sales run dry? Oh wow, this is so brand new for BHVR, they never ever do anything like that…. eyeroll.
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In a sense that the game was better, yes. The game rn is pretty awful unless you're sweating your cheeks off every single match, don't care about losing every single match with almost no bloodpoints, or play in a SWF for easy carebear mode.
Also, we need an actual MMR system back in place, I'm getting tired of being paired with Survs who don't touch gens while I'm in a two minute chase, that ######### would never happen when MMR was controlled by season rank and I was past bronze. I'm getting tired of being put against 4k hr TTV Blights/Nurses/Twins that claim they are on 100+ win streaks while I'm getting SoloQ teammates that literally seem brain dead.
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@bathwatergrill said:
I'm against removing dc penalties, but till they nerf ghoul they should completely remove dc penalty. 99% of the games are hard camping and tunneling ghouls that trash solo lobbies, most of the games we don't even get to play the game cause of so many people instantly leaving or rage quitting. This killer single handedly ruined this game for so many survivors. You wanna counter ghoul? Okay here's the 4 perks that are actually useful against it. We literally can't even change perks to our liking now.
This game shouldn't have a DC penalty at all aside from a max 5 minute one, this isn't an esports game and the game balance is completely out of whack on both SoloQ and Killer. There is no justification for bans that stretch to 72hrs and beyond, as if this game is the holy grail of PVP and requires the upmost respect and commitment.
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Yes, they shouldn't be able to and that would be a great QoL change to then further balance the game around. SWF already get a bunch of perks for free, just by being on an actual team, they shouldn't then get to stack the most meta perks and it would encourage them to use other perks.
People also claim these groups are rare but almost every match I go into as Killer is against a SWF team with items and add-ons, very rarely do I go against a SoloQ and when I do, it's easy peasy mode where I'm refraining from doing too much because it's so easy.
The gap between SoloQ and SWF needs to be fixed and limiting SWF perks would be a great first step.
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@H2H said:
2v8 was also good for catching blatant cheaters with all the basekit aura reading. Tons of survivors just zipping around at 1000 mph.
Last night I was playing survivor and watched a teammate go down and then crawl at light speed away from the killer. Completely shameless.
Yea, I saw a lot of cheating Survs in 2v8, when I was both Killer and when I was a Surv. The cheating is rampant and there's a lot of Killer using aura hacks and there's a lot of Survs not only using Aura hacks but also slight speed boosts.
I do find it pathetic that BHVR has such a steep DC penalty system in place in tandem to a game with 0 quality control.
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@LordJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909995#Comment_3909995
I feel bad for deaf people.
I mean, who doesn't, but hearing is a crucial part to any video game, so this bug really doesn't change much
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@LordJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909968#Comment_3909968
Survivors adapt real quickly to this bug. Every Nemesis I gone up against used nothing but this zombie invis bug because of that they only adapt faster to it.
There's really not even any adapting necessary, you just have to listen to the audio, which everyone should be doing anyway lol The skillceiling in this game is on the floor.
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Can confirm, Nemi's zombies still aren't useful, even invisible. Maybe they get a hit or two during the match if Survs can't listen to audio.
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Maybe Nemi's zombies will finally be useful?
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3909154#Comment_3909154
"Wrong again…u guys want buffs for killers exclusively for swf…and that's 3% of your matches,"
If you seriously believe that's only 3% of matches I suggest you watch my streams. You are far from the truth.
" the rest is solo Q who struggle IMMENSELY"
They aren't. The game is balanced around solo queue. I do solo queue survivor mostly and I win the majority of my games.
"On top of all of that, you get Ghoul… how much more crutches do killers need to decimate even further survs?"
It's a killer that just came out, relax. An adjustment patch comes soon after release.
The game is not balanced around SoloQ, the punishments are balanced around SoloQ since most SoloQ matches have people dropping out like flies; while uninformed community members scratch their heads on why because they think the game is perfect lol
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Experience as a Survivor is he's pretty cringe, op, and overall lame to go against. As others have said, he's hitting from the other side of a rock, tall debris, or walls so I'm not sure if this chapter is just badly coded or the Devs just decided to give him legit wallhacks, idk.
His map traversal is just the latest addition of BHVR not knowing how to actually balance their game; this Killer is on top of us 2 seconds into every match and traverses these small maps with ease after hooking, they're also great at proxy camping. The only way to win against this Killer is to get a person who's having their first match as them
Also side note, this killer really isn't scary and doesn't really seem to fit in the game; when they're chasing me I'm not feeling the least bit tense and honestly, watching their tentacles, it just looks like I'm being followed by a Pokemon lmao
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Are you playing SoloQ? The game is balanced around SWF so if you're playing SoloQ, you're unfortunately just in for nothing but wasted time. Also the rank MMR change was one of the worst changes DBD added, the new MMR is void and never works, you can lose 50 games in a row and still be paired against TTV's that have 100's winning streaks.
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You pick one of the op Killers that ignore the vast majority of game mechanics, get good with them while also tunneling/slugging/camping. This is what everyone does or tries to do.
This then leads to other issues, such as you getting used to this baseline of play and then carrying that over to SoloQ matches which cause the plethora of issues that people then complain about on here, and why the game is going nowhere.
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@TieBreaker said:
I was watching a streamer earlier, and they had a few matches in a row where they had a teammate go next at five gens. They also went next after the first survivor was dead. Shortly after, they questioned whether the new system would punish them for not wanting to play through a three vs one at five gens.
Thinking about it, I don't know how I feel about the game forcing survivors to play through a match in those circumstances. If a survivor is dead at five gens, the entire match is ruined for the remaining survivors. Tossing some free BP at them isn't going to be enough to make that experience worth playing through.
I think if a survivor goes next at five gens, everyone else in the match should be able to just leave without being punished.
Almost as if punishment isn't the way to go and almost as if BHVR should start fixing the actual game so that SoloQ Survs want to stay in the match instead of express leaving it lol
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892081#Comment_3892081
As a killer player I would much rather wait a bit longer and face a SWF than deal with all these DOA matches where people go next right away. I'd rather take the hit to my win percentage than have half my matches be a farce, and it would waste less time than longer queues.
As a survivor player, my teammates bailing is by far my biggest issue with solo queue. Tunneling/slugging absolutely pale in comparison when it comes to ruining my fun.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892120#Comment_3892120
Tunneling is never getting fixed. Ever. The reason why is that it is a player problem first and foremost. And making it so tunneling is tantamount to throwing the game isn't gonna work, because it already is for most people that do it. There's no magic bullet to stop tunneling, and if that is what people are waiting for, they may as well just quit the game. It isn't coming.
And some people must not have been paying attention for the last eight years, as imbalance is the name of this game. It will never be perfectly balanced, Thanos isn't the lead dev at BHVR.
That is just to say people saying "fix your game and there won't be a reason to go next" might as well just move on if balance is what they are waiting for. It certainly isn't sufficient justification to bail on every match you don't like.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892100#Comment_3892100
Beating dead horses is what drives traffic here on the DBD forum, lol. Like half the topics posted here are just echoes of arguments that have been going on for years.
That's a you issue. When I play Killer I don't camp/tunnel/slug so I don't have SoloQ players going next or really even that many DC's. When I can tell that they are not doing so great, even if they are in a SWF, I even ease up so that they can actually play the game a bit, which I know is probably a shocking concept for someone like you.
IDC if you'd wait longer for a SWF match, that has nothing to do with what I posted. The issue with SoloQ is not the teammates, it's that the game lets Killers treat SoloQ like it's a SWF. I'm not going to blame randoms for not wanting to waste some of their life in a random online match that they don't want to be in and I'm also not going to blame Killers for playing ultra sweaty because they are used to SWF matches, I blame the Devs for allowing the game to get this horrible. It's up to BHVR to make the game fun and worth the time, not the players.
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@SnakeManvsArbok said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3892688#Comment_3892688
Killer main here. I agree slugging is boring, but I also feel like it's kind of a necessary evil sometimes, especially when dealing with SWFs. Plenty of people make entire team loadouts designed around denying hooks. Stuff like Decisive Strike, Background Player, Breakout, sabo builds, flashlights. There are a LOT of ways to deny killers hooks, and killers don't have nearly as many options to block the survivor equivalent of generators with the gen kick nerf (Granted, I'm not advocating for Chess Merchant meta either).
I feel like it depends pretty heavily on the context of the match. If the survivors are tryharding, there's nothing wrong with the killer tryharding as well. If it's obviously a match with a bunch of solo queue players and a killer bleeds all four out, yeah they're a dick.
The glaring issue is that the game doesn't differentiate between SWF and SoloQ, so Killers using scummy tactics to even the playing field with SWF's then use those same tactics against SoloQ which destroys SoloQ. In fact, most Killers get accustomed to using those tactics just so they can have the best chance possible for an easily controllable match.
That's why people advocate for SWF nerfs and then changes to tunneling/camping/slugging. You can't balance a game around three different perspectives, especially when two of them are constantly being forced into one. BHVRs new "health" patch is just further proof that they have no idea ######### they are doing with the game and are just desperately trying to keep it afloat for the next DLC.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3891902#Comment_3891902
This isn't really a Solo Qvs SWF thing. A SWF not wanting to screw over their friends with bad behavior doesn't mean they have an advantage over a selfish Solo Q teammate who doesn't care about their teammates. This is a behavioral thing. You shouldn't be doing this whether your teammates are on comms with you or not.
None of that has anything to do with what I stated or of reality. SWF's don't "go next", they play until the end or (very rarely) all DC at once, they don't give up on hook at 5 gens, 10 seconds into the match. SoloQ though is who "goes next" and I stated, because you didn't even respond to what I actually said, is that the penalty being rained down onto SoloQ is just simply going to deter people from playing altogether and Killers are going to be left with SWF matches and probably increased queues times as well.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3891786#Comment_3891786
Were never going to get to the point where everyone universally agrees every perk, addon, killer, and map are perfectly balanced and fun. You kinda have to just do what BHVR is doing and setup both a penalty WHILE tweaking balance things instead of waiting for AFTER perfect balance is achieved.
The penalty for giving up on hook is specifically targeted at SoloQ, SWF don't do that so it's something that is only going to make SoloQ even more miserable. Guaranteed, people are going to stop playing SoloQ Surv, literally because of the penalties they'll get and because of the possibility of penalties ontop of no actual improvements to the game balance in any meaningful way.
What's going to be left? Killers facing even more SWF's, which is going to continue to worsen game quality as it's quite clear that BHVR has no interest in actual health improvements for the game, just on preserving their own behinds at the expense of the community. We can check back if these changes are implemented after some time and see how much worse the game has become for Killers and SoloQ.
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@XtremeDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887420#Comment_3887420
Maybe no one wants to read what you have to say since its so ######### long? Also why would you expect anyone on forums to know how the dc penalty works? Like i said, no one here dcs from any matches intentionally, besides you clearly, you must really hate the game if ur dcing 5 or more times, which you've seemed to have proven.
Regarding the gen speed, that misinformation is something i learned from a Kyto video explaining what the red bar means when stacking. It actually does both, the speed increases (Obviously), which in turn increases item consumption rate. Obviously the gen is being repaired faster, otherwise there would be no point to stacking, which there already isn't a point in doing so since splitting pressure is better.
Someone needs to read up on dbd wiki, get to it chump
https://deadbydaylight.wiki.gg/wiki/Dead_by_Daylight_Wiki
Edit: i blocked you so i can escape the nonsense you spit
LOL, Why would I expect anyone on the forums to know the game mechanics to which they keep trying to butt in and talk about to shill for? Yea IDK why I expected that either and clearly a lot of you don't know how the game actually works and how it actually plays lol My bad, I thought people who spend all day on a video game forum would know about said video game. Oooops.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887420#Comment_3887420
I'm not mentioning other games because they're irrelevant. We're not talking about other games, and we're not even talking about the balancing of DBD, we're talking about a very specific thing: Should people be allowed to DC multiple times in the span of a day without a severe penalty.
The answer is, of course, no, no they should not.
Do you know what makes my solo queue games miserable most frequently? It's people leaving matches. Giving up on hook especially, but even DCing can put a team on the back foot since the DC bots aren't that good. People feeling entitled to just give up at the drop of a hat and doom the rest of the match is what makes games miserable, and does need to be kept in check by penalties. It's also why this "go next prevention" mechanic they're talking about is a good idea (in theory, depending on how it's done), because a lot of people don't even have to deal with the penalty on account of just leaving the game via hook instead.
The problem with invoking the idea of "looking at why people are going next" is that if you ask ten people why, they'll give you eleven different answers, and eight of them will be nonsense. There's no objective measure of what supposedly makes the game miserable- there isn't even a unified measure of what most people would agree makes the game miserable in their opinion.
Still, all of that is a moot point, because obviously BHVR are trying to improve the experience, that's what the entire back half of the roadmap is for. It's just very, very silly to be arguing in favour of lesser DC penalties when people going next is a big chunk of what actually harms the game.
Nope, other games are completely relevant. If the vast majority of the gaming community and all other asymm games don't have these issues that you claim DC penalties need to combat, especially DC penalties this severe, it is completely relevant. You just don't want to talk about it because it highlights your flawed logic and you'd rather stay on your straw horse.
There also is an objective measure of why people are going next lol You can attempt to state that SoloQ does that for every reason under the sun, but that is false and there are common majority reasons why Survs either DC or go next. There is also a clear cut reason why slugging has become so common place that BHVR is scrambling to fix it.
I find your unwillingness to talk about why the game clearly isn't fun for SoloQ players or Killers and how to actually fix that, not conducive to an actual discussion. You can stay in fantasy land, I'm not going to reply to you anymore lol
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@Nomade said:
I dont really see the phase 1 changes as being anything other than QOL stuff that benefits everyone. Preventing salty people from holding the match hostage is a good thing for everyone. No one likes spoiled sports. Go next prevention isn't somthing I really want to comment on, because its kind of poiintless. If a survivor wants to leave the match, a go next prevention only slows it down. they could just stay slugged on the ground or afk, which arguably hurts the team even more until they realize what is happening.
The only thing that survivors are getting nerfed on are spawns and lets be real here, most survivors arent really taking advantage of spawning behavior right now anyway.How doe any of the "QoL changes" benefit SoloQ?
You are right that Survs that don't want to play will just go afk or stay slugged, until you all whine even more and BHVR adds in another mechanic that if you die while having afk crows, you get a DC penalty, which I can totally see on the horizon with how the game is going.
Punish players but don't treat the actual issue, this community is hilariously bad.
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@XtremeDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887331#Comment_3887331
You have to really hate the game if ur dcing that much
These things are problems, but i wouldn't say they're frustrating enough to make someone quit a match.
Do you? Because 5 really isn't that much, especially if you know actually anything about how the penalty system in DBD works, because it doesn't have to be five consecutive DC's either. Though you were in another thread not even understanding how the penalty for gen speed works when multiple survs are on a gen, so that's not surprising.
@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887311#Comment_3887311
The DC penalties are competitive? How does one make a penalty competitive?
Considering people have been "going to next" for a variety of reasons from semi reasonable such as 3 on hook with 4th chased to unreasonable such as the killer daring to play legion/Freddy/whatever killer they don't like, where's the line drawn where people can say "What the hell, not cool"?
You should re-read my comments, I'm not re explaining because you skipped over everything I said. Don't respond if you aren't going to actually read. Try again with another alt pls.
@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887311#Comment_3887311
DC penalties don't exist to enforce some kind of e-sports level commitment or whatever, that's a very warped understanding of the situation.
DC penalties are one of the systems that exist across most multiplayer titles (exempting stuff like battle royales where it doesn't really matter) to make it so that players can't completely screw over every other player's experiences because they ragequit. Some games opt for a backfill mechanic where applicable - Overwatch was one of those - some games opt for a DC penalty, some games opt for both. DBD primarily favours the DC penalty, but the bots exist as a pseudo-backfill mechanic too.
If matches of DBD are unfun miserable slogs for you, then you shouldn't be queuing. If matches of DBD really are consistently this bad, you should be railing against the balance, not asking for ways of making sure everyone else's matches are that bad on the regular.
The DC penalties do in fact need to scale that hard, because otherwise, people will DC more. Regardless of why, that's a bad thing.
DC penalties to this severity, exist only to keep a game functional that's in a highly competitive state, mostly always esports games. That's a fact. Name another asymm or pvp game, that's not esports, that locks players out for 72 hrs after 7 DCs or have penalty time limits that deescalate only a single level of severity, after 24 hrs, taking an entire week to deescalate 7 DC's back to start. Then explain to me why DBD needs that, but doesn't need competitive balancing.
Clearly DBD is unfun and miserable, that's why BHVR has to urgently do a "QoL update" and halt actual content, because most Survs don't want to be in a match (Most Survs are SoloQ) lol You also never answered, why aren't all PVP games filled with bots or empty lobbies if DC penalties are soooooo needed yet almost all PVP games lack DC penalties? Maybe it's because other PVP games are actually fun and engaging, hmmmm?
You and I both know that BHVR should be focusing on fixing why people are DCing and going next, not further penalizing players because they don't want to sit in a unfun match and no amount of force is going to do that. Also let's be clear, the going next epidemic is a SoloQ issue and the penalties that are going to be handed out to those who die at 2nd hook phase, is an issue that is solely going to decimate SoloQ even more, SWF don't do that.
If your intent is to shill for the game until all that is left are sweaty S-Tier Killers and SWF groups, then keep on trucking, you will surely get that!
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887302#Comment_3887302
Okay, so, two things.
1: You are invoking this to heavily imply that it would be better for the game to have lessened DC penalties. I am asking you, directly, why you think that. What's the benefit of following other games here? What do you hope/think will happen after this hypothetical change?
2: Some other games do actually have that issue, for the record. My experience with old Overwatch and League of Legends from around the same time period included a lot of people ragequitting or moving to surrender (in League's case).
You asked me personally if I would DC more if the timer is lowered, as if that was some sort of gotcha question. I didn't even want to waste time on that because it's mute. I would not, I don't endorse DCing nor do I want to DC. I don't even DC in PVP games where there isn't even a base DC penalty, which is most PVP games lol So?
Old League of Legends and Overwatch are the only games you can come up with? Those are also two highly competitive games and also are esports .99% of the gaming industry doesn't have this issue, so maybe you should start focusing on where that issue stems from and less on the punishment. People don't want to sit in matches of DBD because they are unfun and a waste of time when they are meant to be the complete opposite; that's BHVR's fault and that's also your fault, along with people like you, for not holding BHVR accountable for how toxic this game is and how subpar BHVR has been.
My point is, BHVR can't implement highly competitive DC penalties as if their video game is an esports, yet at the same time they completely drop the ball on balance and refuse to balance the game competitively. Now they're going to hand out DC penalties for going next, which isn't going to stop that, that's just going to stop people from booting up the game entirely. It's going to demolish player retention. Most of my matches in SoloQ someone DC's and even in 2v8 people are DCing, on both sides.
You're so focused on a punishment and not what's causing people to want to gtfo of a match.
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@Nomade said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887290#Comment_3887290
Survivors do that to killer players too though. You cant really argue that. This entire slugging situation has happened as a result of survivors stacking multiple second chance perks, nerfs to hook stage timers and repeated nerfs to basically all killer gen regression perks. Killers were simply adapting to the nerfs that the devs have done and the the meta perks survivor brings.
Survivors need to do the same thing and react to the meta. You can bring any perk you want but if you are gonna ignore the prevalent playstyle that killers are using then you really dont get to complain about what may happen as a result of that. It is like sticking your hand on a blistering hot pan and then getting mad because the pan is hot and you got burned.
There is a difference between choosing to take off meta perks or play in a goofy way and BhVR swinging the mighty hammer of hard player agency removal like they have done with killers in the past and are now wanting to do again.No, the entire slug meta is not a Surv issue, it's a SWF issue, not a Surv issue. You guys have to stop conflating the two.
It's an issue when SWF stack those perks because they have super coordination from comms to pull off moves that BHVR can't balance around. It's not an issue when SoloQ uses those perks because they are less coordinated and the chances of trolling the Killer are extremely low. Hell, the games been out for a decade and BHVR haven't even added the ability to see other Surv perks in the lobby so you can coordinate with your random teammates, yet SWF get a free pass to do whatever they want at the expense of the rest of the community.
Killer adjust to facing those SWF matches and then let all hell break loose during SoloQ matches to feed their ego from the sweaty SWF matches they constantly face. It's a cycle that starts and stops with SWF.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887288#Comment_3887288
If you don't have an answer, that's alright.
Well I see you don't. You want to discuss semantics about DC penalties as a strawman, yet why does every other PVP game not have an issue with DCing?
So again, what keeps every other pvp game and every other asymm game, from having full bot lobbies or lobbies that abruptly end (since we're about to get a surrender option lol)?
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887278#Comment_3887278
That's not what I asked, I asked if you'd DC more with lower DC penalties.
You're not supposed to be DCing unless you absolutely have to for real-life reasons, remember, so what's the benefit of lowering DC penalties?
I asked you, what prevents every other PVP game on the market from having full bot lobbies or lobbies that just abruptly end?
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887273#Comment_3887273
I mean… yes?
Let me ask you this: If it were lower, would you DC more often?
So then what prevents every other PVP game in existence from having lobbies full of bots or lobbies that just end?
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@XtremeDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887260#Comment_3887260
I mean, people who go next don't stop playing, the people who have to experience teammates going next stop playing. If they're so selfish enough to leave a match then they should be punished, and while they're banned from matchmaking, that's one less ######### ruining games for on average 24 other survivor players per hour.
They're not gonna stop playing the game entirely, they gotta keep that ego nice and big and fragile so that when they do quit because they simply got outplayed, they're punished justly and hopefully learn their lesson to not do that again.
Assuming this penalty is big enough to save more people from the offending players, hopefully it gets bumped to an hour minamum and they put measures in place to detect unintentional dcs like crashes
No one knows what 5 consecutive penalties do because people here for the most part actually think abt their actions and stick their games out. Do you know because you've dced 5 times in a row? Was this an experiment you ran or did you purposely do it?
Minimum*. It's minimum, not minamum.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3887260#Comment_3887260
…If you DC 5 times in a row within 24 hours, shouldn't your penalty be super high? Surely a DC penalty isn't functioning as intended if you can DC as much as you want and not care about the outcome?
Does a DC penalty need to lock you out for 24hrs and then take almost an entire week to get the timer to reset to 0, for a DC penalty system to be functioning?
There is 0 logical reason for such high DC penalties in this game and a static or maxxed out penalty of 5 minutes would be fine, especially if they are going to start handing out DC's for going next. Actually, the overwhelming vast majority of PVP games on the market and ever released in the history of the gaming industry, don't have such harsh penalties.
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@XtremeDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3886678#Comment_3886678
Thankfully operation health is in order, so these issues will be resolved for DBD's double digit anniversary. Something still needs ti be dine about SWF's though, since they can coordinate powerful builds that make killer super unfun, when the games already survivor sided
Yea okay, people are going to stop playing when they get DC penalties for missing the 2nd hook phase skill check lol Or when every match of SoloQ turns into getting slugged and then voting to end the game. All the while, SWF is neither addressed properly nor is tunneling/camping/slugging. Band aid fixes for a wound that requires stitches are just going to keep on bleeding and assuredly will get infected.
Also, I think a lot of people aren't aware of how astoundingly awful the DC penalties are in this game, a game that's not even competitive. Someone DC 5 times in a row within 24 hours and report back what your accumulative penalty is, I already know the answer to that, but I know that 99% of the people on this forum have not a clue.
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Because BHVR balances the game around SWF but even then, they do a half assed job at it. It's really just that simple, they buff Killers to compete with SWF and Killers can still barely do that, all the while Surv gameplay gets watered down even more but SWF still adapt thanks to comms, but SoloQ just falls further into hell.
It's hilarious to see BHVR talk about implementing a "give up" mechanic for bleeding out, yet are going to hand out DC penalties to people going next on hook. These proposed changes are a waste of time, BHVR should be getting to the root of why no one wants to play the game as it was mechanically created to be played and what they can do to get that back in line, not implementing a give up mechanic after being slugged but then handing out DCs to those giving up on hook. Irony.
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@Rudjohns said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3886674#Comment_3886674
Anything "SWF nerf" is gonna kill the game
Aren't SWF a minority in comparison to SoloQ players? And why would balance changes targeted at SWF kill the game?
Seems like what's killing the game is pandering to SWF and pretending that everything else is an issue, so much so that BHVR needs to do emergency QoL changes that are just going to make everything worse.
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@XtremeDBD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3884780#Comment_3884780
I agree, swfs need to be nerfed and so do gen speeds. But at the same time as these changes, anti slug and tunnel machanics need to be implemented so all boring playstyles on both sides are gone
Exactly this! SWF need to be nerfed with gen speeds, tools, and perks. When that happens, they will be closer to SoloQ level, making the game easier to balance for everyone and guess what, I bet the SWF groups will be miserable dealing with a game closer to the SoloQ level.
Then once SWF are nerfed, real anti-camp and anti-slug mechanics can be put into the game and it won't blow the game up for Killers facing a SWF because they will be nerfed.
For instance, mechanics like the anti-camp meter is always increasing and varies speed depending on how close the Killer is and doesn't get voided by a chase happening near the hook (only gets voided by insidious), so while the Killer is hard camping because they have no skill, the person on hook can unhook themselves when the opportunity arises and the person occupying the Killer near the hook can continue to do so and possibly escape.
But anyway, we are getting crappy QoL changes from BHVR that are just going to make the game more miserable and more spiteful while not addressing the real issues with the game that have snowballed into what we have now.
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The announced updates are literally so crappy, its actually insane that any "competent" dev team would even suggest them lol It's really like they want this game to die through no player retention and to make the most unfun on rails game they can possibly ever create.
How about they throw up some SWF nerfs into the PTB and actually do something about the balance of this game and where that imbalance stems from. Then they can directly address slugging/camping through real mechanic changes and then I guarantee that SoloQ Survs will stop Dcing every other game or "going next". This wasn't even a real issue until late, but SoloQ Survs have had enough of this ######### and won't tolerate crap matches; when the matches get even worse, people will stop playing and new player retention will continue to drop, all that will be left are sweat Killers and SWF.
All these proposed changes are nerfs to Survs as a whole and increase the difficulty in making the game balanced since there are three sides to this game yet they keep trying to hamfist changes that affect two of those sides completely differently, making a circular balance issue.
Oh well, the quality of the game will continue to drop and the same people will keep defending it lol
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Yea it's another bad bandaid fix from BHVR instead of them addressing the issues with the game in any meaningful way, SWF need a nerf, then Killers can be rebalanced as tunneling/camping/slugging can then be addressed properly. The game is all out of whack and people are intentionally being obtuse about the real issue with balance.
@Darkage said:
I don't understand what the fun would be to get 3 of your mates, bring plot twist and no mither and surrender as soon as possible.
Doesn't that ruin the point of the game?
No, if Survs want out of the match, they will do that, especially in SWF if the game isn't going their way. Slugging/Camping/Tunneling and SWF in it's current state, already ruin the point of the game, but it's rampant rn, same with DCing and SoloQ constantly going next on hook.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3883767#Comment_3883767
we're genuinely curious, how much of the things of the things you repeatedly spout do you actually believe?
Who's we? Your alt accounts?
So then why do Killers slug? Why does that P100 Blight slug at 5 gens or why does the p100 Nurse slug at 5 gens? In fact, why is every Killer in DBD constantly slugging…. or camping/tunneling if they even do hook? Why in comp DBD, is the Killer pretty much required to tunnel out one player in a nerfed SWF?
The game balance will always be ######### if SWF are not brought back down to earth where the rest of Survs play, which is why this game has gotten more unpleasant as time has gone on. You're all aware of that though, you just ignore it because you want your current power role playing with friends, I'm not going to be bullied by people like you for simply stating reality.
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@Shroompy said:
Agreed.
SWF is the biggest factor when talking about this topic, and even then its not as black and white. Not every SWF is playing as if they have a gun to their head, theyre just casual gamers havin a good time with their buds. Its like saying everyone who plays Nurse or Blight is an absolute sweatlord, or everyone running X build is desperate for a win. And we all know that isnt the case.
Everyone who plays Nurse and Blight is absolutely a sweat lord, the difference is that sometimes you get Nurse and Blights who are still learning, so they aren't at optimal efficiency yet, but they are still in training to be sweat lords.
Doesn't matter at the end of the day if a SWF are playing like they have a gun to their head or not, they still get information that was never intended for Survivors to have, which throws off game balance and creates this three body problem for DBD. The game is balanced around the avg SWF which ruins SoloQ while also not elevating Killer to deal with comp SWF's.
The game is SWF sided, not Surv sided or Killer sided.
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@CLHL said:
Not really. Just because the survivors run in circles doesn't mean they are at a disadvantage.
I know this comparison is not popular around here, but just look at any competitive game to see the reality of the game. The matches usually are camping and tunneling the first survivor to death, killing a second one and praying to catch a third one with NOED. And that with all the limitations of perks and maps they usually use.
Another example is in the current 2v8, where survivors have basically everything at their disposal. Maps full of pallets, you can repair these pallets, erase your marks, instantly heal, recover hook stages, the generators fly... And I have yet to play a match where a single survivor manages to escapes me through the gates.
The skill floor to be a competent survivor is much higher, and many are not even willing to get there. A bad survivor is usually enough to swing the game to the killer's side, but that happens in any team game. You can't blame the game balance for that.
Killers needing to tunnel out 1 Surv in utlra comp SWF matches where the SWF's are also nerfed, is a good example of how atrocious the game balance is. The game has SWF's dominating, then Killer, then SoloQ. People who think the game is Killer sided are SoloQ players and those who think SWF isn't OP, are SWF players who like their advantage and easy games.
Overall it's a toxic cycle of imbalance where the majority of players aren't having fun; most matches of SoloQ has the Killer camping/tunneling/slugging at 5 gens while Survs DC and go next on hook lol SWF and S-Tier Killers 9that ignore most of the game mechanics, like blight, nurse, billy) are the only ones really enjoying the game. Though often those S-Tier Killers will mostly slug and tunnel in their matches against SoloQ, they're always primed to face a SWF sweat squad.
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@Reinami said:
Basekit unbreakable is just going to punish killers harder for things out of their control and faster bleedout just encourages the slugging more.
They need to fundamentally go back to the drawing board and look into WHY killers are slugging and WHY survivors hate it and address it more intelligently. They can't just bandaid fix this because all that will happen is killers will go to the next "annoying thing"
They need to realize that spending years giving survivors buffs when they get unhooked through perks, and basekit mechanics. While also nerfing killer perks around hooking while also increasing the hook timer, while also making survivors on the hook actually safer than ones not on the hook is obviously going to lead to "not hooking"
They need to actively ENCOURAGE killers to hook by rewarding them, not by punishing them. They need to make tunneling fundamentally IMPOSSIBLE from a gameplay perspective, not bandaid it with more basekit mechanics. They need to do something about the "game is definitely lost now" for BOTH SIDES that just makes everyone immediately give up, and deal with the "slugging the whole team for 4 minutes" and "slugging for the 4k"
Killers do it because it's optimal, slugging wastes Survs time since going for hooks is a detriment and hook spreading is severely punished in SWF games. Killers also do it because it's the most toxic thing to do as it removes almost all gameplay and they are all tilted from their unpleasant matches with SWF groups.
In the current game, any nerf to slugging would benefit SWF immensely and any buff to hooks will destroy SoloQ even more. The issue always starts and ends with the balance around SWF being completely out of whack and ruining the rest of the game, preventing real solutions for the games many problems.
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@ProveKa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3883486#Comment_3883486
You're talking about this. You reference yourself and then you say, look, I'm right.Who told you that they included these killers into the game for SWF?Where do you listen to this nonsense or how do you form it in your mind and believe it?You are really strange people
You stated that there are some Killers that can deal with SWF, we all know who those Killers are and why those Killers are allowed to be in the game when they circumvent all normal game mechanics that Surv gameplay is based around, it's not a secret and it's also not rocket science lmao Anytime there is a call to balance out Nurse/Blight/Billy there is immense outcry about dealing with high MMR SWF groups, but those Killers aren't limited to just playing against those SWF groups and often do not, they often face SoloQ and then destroy the gameplay for all the Survs involved.
Strange people? I'm a single person, I don't have alt accounts on here like some others do.
@Leon_Loves_Cheryl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3883524#Comment_3883524
Every Buff to SoloQ is a buff that can go towards SWF
No. What kind of info does pinging, text chat, basekit Bond, basekit Kindred give that SWF doesn't already have? Your argument is nonsensical - there are plenty of ways to buff solo survivor that doesn't affect SWF to a significant degree.
Basekit anything goes right to SWF and SWF will streamline the hell out of it. Basekit Kindred? Now SWF have that to aid their comms, basekit unbreakable? Same thing. Every buff to SoloQ goes right to SWF and every nerf of Survs affect SoloQ the most, which is why SoloQ is in an unbearable state rn. Also congrats, SoloQ now has basekit #########, now Killers will demand to be buffed to compensate and the cycle just continues, it's again, not an answer to this issue.
A solution is balancing SWF and then actually balancing out the rest of the game. Being able to add in a real anti-camp mechanic and anti slug mechanic that wouldn't be overkill for SWF's to abuse because they would be brought down a few pegs by hyper specific SWF nerfs that wouldn't affect SoloQ gameplay, unlike all the other balance changes to Survs to make the game more palatable for Killers to face a SWF. The game would be easier to balance and better for all.
Also text chat? Yea let me stop to text chat during a match, as almost every Killer has lethal or some other aura perk and is slugging everyone on a nerfed map where the game is progressing so fast at 5 gens that there isn't even time to open a chest or bless a totem, but sure let me text chat lmao Why not voice chat? Why only advocate for text chat or useless pings? Because you people don't want real changes, you want cannon fodder.
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@Leon_Loves_Cheryl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3883498#Comment_3883498
You can't do that. You'll make people feel punished/weaker for wanting to play together. And not every SWF plays at the top 1% competitive level.
It's not fair to bring them down. Bring everyone else up.
No that's people projection of what will happen, not what will actually happen. The entire rest of the game is made to suffer because of SWF, it's not unreasonable or insane for BHVR to balance SWF. Every Buff to SoloQ is a buff that can go towards SWF, nerfing SWF wouldn't impact SoloQ, that is the easiest way to start achieving some semblance of balance.
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@Leon_Loves_Cheryl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3883486#Comment_3883486
This is why I said earlier in the thread that solo survivor needs to be buffed to the level of SWF and then buff Killer to compensate.
It's especially important because older killers such as Legion have been left behind since new killers have been built with SWF in mind (such as Dracula and Wesker) so we have a large discrepancy in the Killer roster between "first generation" and "second generation" killers. Consolidating this discrepancy while buffing solo survivor with more information (more HUD details, ping system, maybe text chat, etc.) will set up a better foundation for the game's future in my opinion.
You can't buff SoloQ players to the level of SWF, it's an impossibility due to the core mechanics of the game. SWF should be brought down to the level of SoloQ by nerfing aspects of SWF to compensate for all their inherent advantages, that would then not impact SoloQ players and Killers/Maps/everything should be rebalanced off of that. We'd have a much more balanced game if all actions took longer for SWF players based on amount in SWF and if they weren't all allowed to bring in the same perks.
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@ProveKa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882357#Comment_3882357
Your gashlighting doesn't work anymore.There are killers stronger than SWFs in this game.Everybody knows the game balance ruined because of these killers.
Yes there is lol That isn't the rebuttal you think it is though, those Killers are allowed to stay in the game broken and ignoring almost all game mechanics that DBD is built around because of their viability with SWF. So now what happens when they vs the majority of Survs, which is SoloQ? Overtuned. Which even so, those people aren't having fun, almost every single Blight I play against in SoloQ, is slugging/camping/tunneling at 5 gens and the same for every single Nurse, they can't even ease up on SoloQ to have a normal match.
So yea, thanks for reiterating how unbalanced the game is and how it all ultimately comes back around to how unbalanced SWF is and how that's ruining the entire game! You people, the point flies right over your head.
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@NarkoTri1er said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3882634#Comment_3882634
comp still exists, but average player has a mindset that it's for "sweats" while that same average player wants to establish the best possible outcome from their match by the most casual kind of learning. Not to mention terrible state of soloQ with people still being allowed to blatantly give up at the start and griefing in general still not being properly addressed.
People are giving up in SoloQ because the game is balanced around comp SWF, SoloQ has literally never been in a worse state in all of DBD history. Most matches of SoloQ are a complete waste of time which drives people to DC and "go next" because the games are for the most part, unwinnable and more importantly unfun, since most Killers just slug/camp/tunnel as if they're playing against a comp 4 stack SWF. The MMR also doesn't actually do anything and the mm was way better when they relied on rank, not that they should go back to that, but they need to ditch this current lame duck iteration of a sbmm.
People are so damn quick to want to punish SoloQ players for their actions, but most people gloss over what is causing SoloQ to be a nightmare and it isn't people wanting out of a match, that's a symptom of a much larger issue. SWF has remained unchecked and Killers have to rely on truly game mechanic breaking Killers to even remotely get anything done at high ranks against sweat SWF's, so ofc SoloQ is miserable since Killers need that baseline and then carry it over to SoloQ matches where it's absolutely not needed in the slightest.