ReverseVelocity
ReverseVelocity
About
- Username
- ReverseVelocity
- Joined
- Visits
- 8,155
- Last Active
Comments
-
Removing the BP bonus from Prove Thyself and then neglecting to improve BP gains for doing the objective was a bit insulting. It's really difficult to max the category.
-
@Sow said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787113#Comment_3787113
I did say I enjoy playing both Killer and Survivor. I'm not a "survivor-main" I see the problem from both sides. I'm not complaining about every Killer. I'm just stating why survivors are probably disconnecting. That's the literal point of the discussion here. I never said I feel a hatred for anti-loopers. I am having fun and making jokes in my statement lighten up. Although I can see the frustration when people DC against a good nurse. When a Huntress with great aim, hits every hatchet I can understand why players may grow frustrated.
Essentially when solo queuing the core gameplay mechanic that survivors have to buy time or counter Killers is looping. It's a bit of RNG with teammates so not every pick up has a flashlight save. So ya, when anti-loop killers are played optimally they can end a chase quickly. I'm not hating on Killers I'm just stating what players do. If you find that "nearly every killer" falls under this genre than you are just admitting I'm right. It's clear that Killers get slightly more love than survivors. That in no way means "I am not having fun" lmao.
As for your assumptions of me not enjoying survivor… You'd be straight up lying if you told me being Tombestoned out of the game prior to the first gen being completed was "fun". I've only had this happen once to me but I've seen this a few times when versing a Myers and sometimes the players just DC. I get it it's not fun and you feel you've been robbed of a trial. I see survivors just killing themselves on hook even to avoid certain killers which makes it a 3 man team early on.
I'm glad you do fine against anti-loop Killers; Technically that makes two of us then. Although not everyone does "fine" against these types of Killers.
For the M1 comment… I don't get how me saying anti-loop equates to M1? I don't get it lol. I love the majority of killers. I love versing nearly every Killer in the game. The literal only Killer I don't have fun against is Legion (boring) and Dredge. Although with Dredge it's not a hatred… I love how terrifying he is but the nightfall just hurts my eyes haha.
Please don't get offended when I state the facts. In games like these the top 10% tend to dictate how the game gets nerfed/buffed. As a result, from time to time the remaining playerbase is far more impacted than the top 10%.
I don't know why not being able to deal with some killers should give anyone a free pass to quit the game. That just leads to more ruined games and means the player in question will never be able to get to a point where they can in fact deal with those killers.
Hook suicides shouldn't be a thing. DCs already have a penalty anyway.
-
@Darth_Avr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787196#Comment_3787196
It worked like that before, exactly. With the good old Knight, and I didn't struggle with it. But now I do. Tandem with the guards? With the new hunt depleting timer? Sometimes my prediction tells me to drop a guard 3 meters from me, sometimes 7 meters from me, sometimes 19 meters from me, sometimes instantly. But now, instead of making the right choice I need to play not around the loop points but around the rules I got with this rework.
Nothing about his guard placement changed apart from the fact that you can't place a guard at your feet anymore. 10 meters isn't that long to draw a patrol path.
If you're struggling all of a sudden, that means you relied on that strategy to play the killer.
-
@Darth_Avr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3785662#Comment_3785662
If you are playing the Knight you should know that survivors can run away from guards very effectively. Or to vault away. With this rule the Knight became just m1 killer in chase, no freedom of tactic, no freedom to have control on its own power.
We always predict survivor movement and even when you drop a guard just instantly - there's still too much time between detecting, moving to the survivor and beginning the hunt. For now, with the new timer (when a hunt ends very quickly when you are in the range of 8 meters from your guard) instant drop is already nerfed (and I don't like it), but with this 10 m rule the Knight is literally bound and can't use his own power.
So you need Or to loop as an m1 killer Or to drop your guard and draw these 10 meters, and you will find that survivors just run away, you are losing time, you are in the cooldown etc… Then you say: ****, switching the killer for a better one and thinking: oh, why should I play the Knight, it's not fun anymore. Again, with the new 3x depletion mechanic insta drop is already nerfed, no need in the 10 m rule. Devs, let the Knight players feel free please.
I mean you're supposed to zone in tandem with the guards. You're also supposed to actually predict where the Survivors are going to go and spawn the guard there. Both of which you seem to struggle with.
@Darth_Avr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3785731#Comment_3785731
Is it fair when the Nurse can go through a pallet and hit you? Is it fair when Pyramidhead can attack through the obstacles? Even before the rework, switching from the Knight to the Pyramidhead I felt more relaxed, because it's just more easy to play and attack through the palets and windows then drawing patrol paths, planning, taking brief decisions how and where to draw and drop. But after the rework with all these nerfs… you got the point.
Pyramid Head has a skillshot, not a big radius, and Nurse is generally regarded as not fair, actually. Even so, she can only blink to a point, and doesn't instantly cut off a large area by pressing m2.
-
@Sow said:
It doesn't help that people love playing anti-loop Killers. I wonder why, they got looped on Nemesis and said nope!
Nearly every single Myers I verse runs Tombstone. I think players enjoy the mori mechanic but when you are robbed of a match before the first gen even goes off it's not fun. I died that way. Afterwards I watched the Killer's TTV for that match playing Myers. Refusing to hook survivors when they went into lockers simply because he wanted to mori every single survivor. The guys laughing and just overall having a great time, right. The guy wasn't sweating or trying very hard, just laughing and having a good time. Goes to show how easy Killer really can be but is anything done about it, naaaaaah. Survivor loops too hard, not to be tolerated!
Trapper on swampy grassy maps is just the embodiment of a nightmare. Freddie mains could learn a thing or two here haha.
Too much of the nerfs revolve around the top 10% of players. GGG did this with PoE by nerfing loot drops by 50-80%. Why? Oh well the top players in groups were farming currency too fast!
Same thing with DBD but in my opinion they favour Killers ever so slightly. Oh, this top tier survivor or SWF gen rushing is using "meta-perks" and is great at looping/evading the Killer OR gen rushing cause hmm I don't know Killer is bloodthirsty for a single hook! Those perks need to be reworked into oblivion. Oh, this Killer is camping hooks? We'll give a tiny little radius and if the Killer stand in this tiny wittle bubble you can escape for free! Killers, "OKAY! I'm just going to stand a bit over here and watch from outside that radius he-he."
Survivors, "I've practice for many hours I got good at mind games and hugging loops. I know how to loop these areas. Alright my hard work and game knowledge is paying off!"
Killers, "Anti-loop mother-supper!"
Overall I think the game has it's fun moments but it's hard to balance games like these. My opinion, it takes skill to loop and game knowledge to counter Killers. A killer will generally always get the hit, it's just a matter of time. I think too much focus has been put on catering to Killers… As a consequence many survivors are finding the game increasingly less fun. I read the average success rate of a survivor escaping is 40% give or take; Being 4 out of 10 games they escape.
Plague, no resets… defeats the purpose of healing in the game. Legion same thing. Anti-loop Killers defeat the who point of survivors having something to fight back with. Literally the only thing a survivor has to fundamentally counter survivors across the board is windows and pallets. When you remove one or more of the basic aspects of this game. It's no longer DBD it's just who can hook or do gens faster. Removing the chase or resetting factor is simply not fun. You think people are scared of Plague or Legion. Half the people just continue to work on gens after being frenzied by Legion. It's just these long boring matches that have little interaction with the core fun of the game. So I think people just DC more nowadays cause certain matches are simply not worth it and they probably should take a break from the game to cool off.
You're essentially complaining about nearly every killer on the roster lmao. Including Trapper for some reason? I don't think you actually enjoy playing Survivor.
I'm doing just fine running killers with anti-loop abilities. Do you want every killer to be pure M1 and nothing else? I don't get it.
-
@Akumakaji said:
Dayum! Poor Hens. As a Plottwist enjoyer, this hit close to my heart.
There should be a huge neon sign next to the portrait on the HUD for survivors when a survivor plot twists that says "DO NOT HEAL".
…then again people would probably still try regardless.
-
I think it's because it's a very strong effect, so they want to be careful how it applies. The Haste makes it a lot easier to get a hit, so if you somehow manage to make the killer miss with their increased speed, that power should be diminished somewhat.
At least that's the idea I imagine, whether that's a good thing is subjective.
I mean, if Coup loses stacks when you miss a hit, then I guess it makes sense for PWYF to as well. I don't think it'd necessarily break the game if it didn't, but it might end up being a bit frustrating to face as the killer would be stuck in that powered up state until they get a hit.
I wouldn't really call PWYF trash either. The effect is pretty strong, it's just kind of awkward and relies on other perks to reach its full potential. It lacks consistency, which is generally valued in a perk, but I think it makes up with it in power. I wouldn't rate it anywhere below decent on the majority of killers, it just really hurts when the obsession is stealthy.
It's not really a perk you can just slot into any build, though, and I guess that makes people forget about it (I kind of did myself until I saw this post).
It's a weird perk, potentially very dangerous to buff. I don't know how I'd change it, if at all.
-
It seems to be a consistent issue.
I'm using the Greek Legends body and weapon, and the default arm, if that helps. Although in the first game I was using the full outfit.
It doesn't appear to happen in Nightfall.
-
@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3786841#Comment_3786841
Getting rid of suiciding on hook will just make things worse. Like if they actually changed the game to remove that what do you think the reaction would be? Also most of these "competitive" PVP games dbd is compared to in threads like this are at least somewhat balanced "e-sports" type games. It should be obvious why dbd is in a different category.
If they removed hook suicides, some people would probably be really upset that they can't go next whenever they want.
Then, the people who were that bothered by the removal of the feature would realise that they don't actually really want to play the game and quit, either forever or for a while.
Most people would probably not care enough about it, though, and keep playing with the benefit that their random teammates won't leave on a whim.
-
@Halloulle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3786666#Comment_3786666
Because Skullmerchant games are supposed to be the odd one out, I guess— I mean, what is the likelihood of that many Skullmerchants in a row? 😅
"The maps are built in a way so you don't have immediate vision on spawns, though" being the key-sentence there. I think what most games that frown upon "going next early" have in common is that there isn't really a way to just cheese your way through or engage in intrinsically obnoxious and unfun behaviour. Which, imo, really can't be said about dbd. Some people say "that's just part of the game" - which might be true but that doesn't make it any better.
In other words: Do I think it's bad that this many people go next that quickly? Yes. Absolutely. - But I think it's important to not get cause and effect mixed up. - And at the end of the day I find it a lot harder to believe that that many players suddenly feel entitled if they play survivor (since most players play both sides to some extent afaik and we don't see the same on killer side, plus it's not like it has always been this way; something has prompted that change) than that something about the current state of the game is extremely unhealthy/unfun/whatever if you are on the surv side of things.I don't know. I think a lot of PVP games as a whole suffer from having cheap/cheesy strategies pop up often. It's pretty unique that DBD apparently finds it acceptable to have a function where you can abandon the game early without penalty.
In competitive PVP games, people will always find a way to be obnoxious, and it's the developer's job to mitigate the potential for that to happen. We've had a lot of updates pretty recently that make the most hated strategies less effective. You can't instadown someone off of a hook anymore, you can't AFK in front of a hook with no penalty, and now it'll be harder to camp a Survivor to the next stage after the latest patch.
I get that there are things that some people find obnoxious, but that shouldn't mean that they get a free pass to abandon their fellow teammates to peril if they encounter (or in some cases, THINK they encounter) something like this.
The reason that this is a majority Survivor-exclusive problem for the most part is because Killers don't actually have an easy way to go next. It's not that Survivors are more entitled than Killers, it's just they can affect the match easily by quitting the game early.
I really think suiciding on hook has to go. It's making solo queue extremely frustrating, and there is (rightfully) no killer equivalent of it.
Again, this should not be done instead of addressing player frustrations. It should be done in tandem. However, sometimes you have to treat the symptoms before you can treat the underlying cause. Especially in cases where the underlying cause doesn't have an easy solution.
-
Does anyone else remember the old pallet vacuum? I can't imagine going against today's version of a good looper with those kinds of mechanics LOL
-
Bots aren't really a perfect replacement for a player. They're better than nothing but they're not exactly very smart. Last bot I had in a survivor game got grabbed off of a gen by the killer. They weren't even undetectable and were walking up in the open.
We shouldn't be encouraging DCing.
-
This was on PC, and it's only happened once so far. Not sure if it's consistent since I haven't used any moris since then.
If it happens again I'll update the thread.
-
@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3786624#Comment_3786624
Do you really want Survivors to just stop playing? You want que times as long or longer then they were during 2 v.8? Or maybe you just want to play against bots? Just trying to understand the though process here. I will say it is very noble of you to prioritize other players mental health at the expense of your own ability to play the game.
I mean I don't want queue times to go up. That just might be how it ends up going, though.
I'm mainly really tired of my matches turning into 3v1s instantly. As killer or survivor (especially survivor, I don't really play solo anymore due to the frequency of which this happens). It's no fun to play a 3v1 as Killer, and practically unwinnable on top of that as a Survivor. I'd rather have slightly longer queue times if it means I get a full team of Survivors for the entire game.
If the game is really that unbearable for that many people as Survivor to which queue times significantly change if they're forced to play out a match, then that'll get BHVR's attention. It'll fast track improvements to the core gameplay loop if there are major issues with it.
I can also really empathise with people being burnt out of the game as well. I was in that position once, and I took a 2-3 month break and it really improved my outlook on the game as a whole. Playing DBD during that time was constantly unpleasant for me and I want people to avoid that.
-
@Halloulle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3786621#Comment_3786621
On a side note: oddly enough "the odd skull merchant match" happened to be four in a row (all of which borderline unbearable - so yes, when the sixth of that evening rolled around I decided I wasn't going to waste another 15 minutes on that).
I don't play that game, so I don't get the reference. - But from what I know it's one of those shooters? Quick question: How do people generally treat spawn-camping snipers and their victims ragequitting as a result of never getting further than a meter from spawn? Would these "rage quitters" also be laughed at?
Ouch.
If you had so many borderline unbearable matches in a row, honestly I'd have called it quits for the night. I really don't know why you'd go in for number 6.
As for R6, spawnpeeking is a thing, yeah, and people who DC after dying early in the first round do look kind of silly. The maps are built in a way so you don't have immediate vision on spawns, though. You kind of have to rush to the objective without paying attention to get hit with a spawnpeek. Anyway, that's besides the point, as the comparison doesn't really work if you don't know about that specific game.
-
I'm really hyped!
All of the content looks fun and I'm really looking forward to not having to hard lock Boat Key on Dredge.
-
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3786417#Comment_3786417
There's a huge variance in responses. Clearly being audited and swatted are hyperbole, but there are absolutely people who think that the player should suffer some real life consequences. The biggest one being "ban them".
There are a disturbing number of players in this forum who see it as their personal mission to dole out judgement as they see fit. And many of those players get insanely angry when survivors move on to the next match without asking the killer for permission first.
I see a lot of these survivor players as being burned out on the game and not realizing it yet. That's what happened to me right around the skull merchant release, and I eventually took a break from the game for a bit. Still refuse to touch survivor, because it's not gotten any better, so when I do play I play killer exclusively now.
And for players who are in the burnout phase, screaming for punishment is not going to help them. They will eventually stop playing, but an actual ban will just mean they never return to try the game again later.
And if the primary reasons for the burnout and frustration are core gameplay issues: such as not getting to play if you're the first one found, or having to complete 12 gens worth of progress to even try to escape, then there are certainly things that should be looked at. None of those things get any better by punishing the player because the state of the game is garbage.
I mean, getting banned for abandoning games early is generally standard practice in PVP games. We have that in DBD with the disconnect penalty, you can just sidestep it with hook suicides. I don't think people should be permabanned for ragequitting, but an abandon penalty should be followed.
People who are burnt out of the game shouldn't be playing it. They're invested because of sunk cost fallacy, and they're only damaging their own mental health. They also tend to ruin games for other people because of their attitude surrounding the game as a whole.
I'm not suggesting that we crash down on these kinds players with the fury of a thousand suns, but they shouldn't be able to ruin games for others by leaving early.
Ultimately, removing the ability to tap out early without getting a DC penalty will be a good thing in my opinion. It'll be the push some people need to realise "I'm actually really sick of this game and should stop playing it" instead of throwing themselves at lobbies in the hopes that they'll get a lobby that they remotely find fun.
If players stop playing because they can't stand actually playing a game to it's completion, then that's a good thing. For them and everyone else. They don't actually want to play the game, but they haven't realised it yet, like you said. It sucks that the game has reached a state that they can't personally tolerate, but that's just how things go sometimes. People change, things change.
I'm not saying that this should be the angle BHVR take INSTEAD of addressing player frustrations, either. They both need to be done together. The game being less frustrating is a good thing for everyone playing it, but if you can't handle it in it's current state, then please for your own sake and everyone else in the lobby's, pick up another game in the meantime.
-
@Halloulle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3786611#Comment_3786611
fair, I didn't see the "calling it quits" part.
The main point still stands though; in any other PVP game you stick around because "you know what you signed up for". - That's at least how I understand the mantality. So if that's a premise you don't agree with the rest is obsolete.However, given the myriad of things you could encounter at this point in dbd that is no longer the case for dbd. For all intends and purposes you don't even know what you sign up for when you Q up as SoloQ. - You only know once the match has already started. And can you really sign up for something when you don't even know what it is?
Add to that the common "I'm not responsible for your fun" thing (that's usually thrown around by someone who played killer and got a complaint from a survivor about their playstyle not being in any way fun to face) and I think we're getting close to what's going on. Sure, the killer can play whoever and however they like and they're not responsible for the other players' fun. - But the same is true for survivor.
Should people just not play then? - Probably. - But as I said: given the myriad of things you could face in a match the chances of facing exactly what you don't want to face are pretty slim. Quitting a game altogether because you might face something that makes you not want to play that match is like not driving because you might get into an accident.
There's plenty of other PVP games with a huge range of content you can potentially face up against. If I immediately ragequit a lobby of Rainbow Six because one of the defenders picked Clash, I'd get laughed at.
If I suggested being able to open the exit gates at 5 gens because I faced 4 Sprint Bursts as a killer or something, that'd be a ridiculous suggestion. I don't know why the same isn't true vice versa.
Either way, not knowing which killer you'll face shouldn't be an excuse to allow you to ragequit early without penalty. This just isn't a thing in other games.
Hook suicides shouldn't be a thing. If you can't take the good matches with the bad matches, then you shouldn't really be playing the game. I think quitting entirely over the odd Skull Merchant match would be a silly thing to do, but you shouldn't be able to be selective about it. You shouldn't really be able to pick and choose what you do or don't play against, that's generally not how PVP games work.
-
@Halloulle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3786356#Comment_3786356
Or maybe there are things in this game that make it pointless to even attempt to play the match normally that you can only see once you load in. Or maybe the first thirty seconds have a disproportionally huge impact on the rest of the match. - Or do you want to restrict your complaint solely to several people DCing ten or twenty seconds into the match being an epidemic? In that case: I don't observe that and I would love to see some recent examples. Maybe looking closer at the situation might shed some light on the situation.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3786358#Comment_3786358
Well, if you consider players playing a game wanting to have fun and not being willing to put up with everything that could potentially be thrown at them entitlement, then yes. I suppose survs are entitled. As is every other player who ever complained about anything that is mechanically possible in this game and they found no enjoyable in one way or the other.
Slight tangent but that is, imo, another thing why 2v8 was so popular: It being so limited in terms of what stuff you could get also meant you could make a good judgement call if you really want to sign up for that or not. There were only so many things you had to expect and be alright with. And at least from what I can tell while throwing did happen in 2v8 too, it was pretty few and far inbetween. — In normal game mode, however, there is just so much stuff that anyone could quite reasonably not be alright with they wouldn't play the game to begin with if they expected to encounter these things. - But the chances of it occuring are so slim that it doesn't justify not playing the game altogether. Kinda how the chance of getting into a traffic accident rarely stops people from driving.I never said you're not allowed to complain about things. You are allowed to not like something and be vocal about that.
You shouldn't, however, be able to ruin the game early for the rest of the players just because you don't like something in the game. There are plenty of killers I personally dislike playing against, but I will play the match out because I respect the time of the other players in the lobby.
I really don't know why people find this acceptable. In any other team PVP game, disconnecting/leaving when your opponent picks something you don't like is rightfully frowned upon, and generally not allowed in any way without an abandon penalty.
-
@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3786401#Comment_3786401
English is not my first language but I think you understand me. I feel you’re trolling me.
I am stating that it is killers who request BHVR makes the game worse for survivors, and this has consequently led to the issues OP outlines. Your suggestion to survivors not wanting to play is to punish those survivors, thereby making the game even worse for survivors. Because punishment (removal of self unhooks, for example) against any survivor affects all survivor. Survivors do not ask of BHVR that the game becomes worse for survivor. Killers ask of BHVR that the game becomes worse for survivor.
I'm not trolling you, I just didn't get your point. Your explaination in this post is a lot more clear, though. Thank you.
My suggestion for Survivors who don't want to play, is to not to play. Either do or don't, but don't try and do both. Don't "oh I don't like this killer or these perks so I'm going to quit THESE matches against insert half the killer roster here".
Qutting the game early is making it worse for everyone in the lobby. ESPECIALLY the other Survivors. You're basically handing the killer a free win. It prevents a fun and fair match for the killer (which believe it or not, some people value over just purely winning), and ruins all hope of Survivors escaping, unless the match is exceptionally unbalanced.
Removing the ability to quit without a penalty won't make the games worse. It'll make them better, as you'll actually have a fighting chance to keep a full team for the entirety of the match.
Not having the ability to leave the game instantly is not a punishment. If you think having to play DBD is a punishment, then please for your own sake find a different game to play.
-
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3786400#Comment_3786400
It's not common, but the typical "killer response" on the forums to "this game sucks" is to threaten the devs with crap like "the game requires 1 killer to function for every 4 survivors, so give us what we want or we all quit".
When survivors have a ######### experience, there's a common sentiment of "the players just need to suffer more, that'll fix it".
The entire point of me bringing up the afk killer is that no one has ever looked at that scenario and gone rabid and insisted that the killer should be banned, audited, and/or swatted for it. And yet we have basically that sentiment here in this thread for survivors. It's ridiculous.
I don't think anyone wants Survivors to be swatted over giving up. They just want them to play the game they queued up for.
If you abandon the game early, then you should get a DC penalty, for either side.
Again, if you think that playing a match to it's conclusion is suffering, then I'd advise finding a different thing to do.
-
@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3786395#Comment_3786395
I must have been unclear: I said survivors don’t ask BHVR to make the game worse for them, as in survivors. Survivor mains aren’t asking for longer gens, or to lose the ability to self unhook so they’re in timeout with nothing to do longer.
Then I'm not exactly sure what point you're trying to make? Are you saying that Killer players DO ask for the game to be made worse for themselves?
-
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3786385#Comment_3786385
Killers can and do just go stand in a corner until the survivors leave. Don't even have to be at your keyboard for that, and .. oh look, zero consequences there too.
Maybe, but this is far less common than Survivors giving up on the hook. I don't think the Killer going AFK in a corner is good for the game either.
Even if you make it impossible to give up on hook, Survivors can still technically just stand still until the killer kills them. However, it's generally less likely to happen. Doing nothing is boring, and the human brain likes stimulus.
I'm pretty sure they also made it so that it auto-disconnects you as a Killer if you're AFK for an extended period of time. Not sure if that only applies from the beginning, though.
-
@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3786385#Comment_3786385
Because it’s largely killer mains who suggest BHVR address survivor grievances are through punitive measures. Survivors don’t typically ask that BHVR makes the game worse for them.
But they do, though.
I see a lot of people saying that the killer should be "punished" for playing in a certain way, mainly around tunneling/camping, etc.
Measures have been implemented in order to "punish" the killer for playing in these ways. For example, you're punished for hitting someone too soon after they're unhooked, or you're punished for facecamping with a free unhook.
Are these bad measures? Absolutely not. They make things fairer in general. In game design, measures have to be taken to disincentivise certain actions in gameplay that are considered to be unhealthy. This is one of those cases. BHVR needs to take a measure to stop people from leaving the game early just because it doesn't necessarily favour them.
If playing a DBD match to its completion is considered a punishment to you, then I sincerely suggest that you do something else with your time. All that's being asked is that people play the game that they readied up for.
-
@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3786368#Comment_3786368
The killer main answer to survivor umbrage is always to punish the survivors. It’s thoughtless and myopic.
Why is this a "killer main this, survivor main that" thing?
I think it's a reasonable expectation that when people ready up and play a multiplayer game, that they have to play the match to its conclusion. That's why disconnect/abandon penalties are a thing.
The only reason it's focused on Survivors is that they're the only role with a way to leave the match early outside of disconnecting. If Killer players could open the gates at 5 gens, that wouldn't be good for the game either.
-
@TiredDBDenjoyer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3786372#Comment_3786372
I guess my question would be: How do you actually implement that without just killing self-unhooks all together and being forced to rework perks like Deliverance, Wicked, and Slippery Meat? Because if you just make it so self-unhook attempts don't diminish the Survivor hook state bar, people will just start spamming self-unhook until they eventually get it or go struggle phase. There wouldn't be any reason not to at that point.
I'm not exactly sure. I think a decent starting idea would be to halve the sacrifice penalty when attempting escape. So if you try to Kobe 3 times by default, you still have 30 seconds on your first stage.
There might be underlying issues with that idea, though, I'm not a game designer and I don't have the ability to test them.
What I will say, though, is you'd only really have to rework Slippery Meat and Up the Ante. Deliverance and Wicked could give the ability to self-unhook inherently, even if it isn't a base mechanic anymore. Kind of like how the anti-facecamp lets you self-unhook on second stage, even if that's not a thing you can normally do.
So if worst comes to worst, and they do have to remove the base self-unhook, I don't think there'd be too much collateral damage in terms of other content in the game.
-
@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3786358#Comment_3786358
It could be the killers you’re playing as, it could be survivors burnt out, it could be survivor pessimism. Whatever the cause, making the game more miserable for survivors isn’t going to change it. You just can’t force players to play out a game they feel hopeless about.
And Skull Merchant isn’t the only killer survivors dislike facing. A lot of them are overtuned in the eyes of survivors now (Hillbilly, Leatherface, Singularity, and more).
If you're burnt out and pessimistic, don't play the game. Go uninstall and do something else. You shouldn't be able to leave the game early without a penalty.
Just because you don't like the killer you're matched with doesn't mean you should ruin it for the other 4 players. That's a selfish way to think.
@TiredDBDenjoyer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3786358#Comment_3786358
I think all this would accomplish would just be extended periods of people giving up, this wouldn't deter people at all. They'd just go AFK after they get hooked and not do anything for the rest of the match and we're left with the same problem.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3786359#Comment_3786359
Sorry but I'm going to sound like Mathieu Cote for a second, but if it's not fun why queue up to begin with? If you're not having fun with the game, why not just play Killer or a different game entirely? You're not being forced to play the game, it sounds like your time would be better spent playing something that you actually enjoy instead of ruining matches for everyone else and perpetuating your own misery. Nothing personal intended, obviously.
I don't think so. Making it more difficult would deter people. There would still be people who go AFK, but I think there would be less people giving up overall.
I've had people who are currently giving up, but then I go save them before they miss their skill checks, and they continue playing like normal.
Path of least resistance, and all that.
-
They need to make it so you can't suicide on hook from the first stage. It allows you to leave the game while circumventing the DC penalty.
I know it won't solve every instance of people giving up, but allowing penalty free ways of leaving the game quickly is basically encouraging it at that point.
@Halloulle said:
idk, if it's that wide spread it seems like an issue with how the survivor match experience is rather than an issue with the players
Honestly, I think a good amount of it is entitlement. People getting upset that the match won't be absolutely perfect for them and then immediately calling it quits.
In a lot of my killer games people just immediately give up from the get go for zero reason. I'm not camping, tunneling or running 4 slowdowns or anything, they just immediately give up for no discernable reason.
Maybe it's because they don't like the killer I'm playing? Even then it's not like I'm a Skull Merchant main, I think I've had someone go next at 5 gens on every single killer in the roster at this point. I roll my eyes every time it happens.
It's probably one of the biggest things weighing down on my experience as a Survivor, and the only way to guarantee it doesn't happen is to 4 stack. Even 3 stack games can be ruined by the random tapping out early.
It feels like I'm spinning a roulette wheel as to if I'll have a full team for the majority of the game. It's so frustrating.
-
I thought the Trapped score event was 1000 BP?
-
Either the person who was hit to activate Face the Darkness was cleansing the totem, or the person who was cleansing your totem was in your Terror Radius when it was meant to activate.
-
Honestly I think both of Legion's Ultra Rares are good, it's just playing them without Bracelet + Mischief List is pain.
So I guess I'd make basekit Legion not terrible, fixed!
-
@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3785662#Comment_3785662
except it is not rewarding. what is the point of using assassin if the assassin get outplayed with 0 thought process. you fake vault, AI bug out. no hit.
Now you can't even use him because 30 second cooldown.
I don't really get people using the distraction mechanic against me often. Even so, it's tough to use while the Knight is chasing you as well.
@YamamuraVideoRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3785731#Comment_3785731
You mean like how skull merchant can just put a drone down on a loop and shut it down?
Or how trapper can just place a trap? Or hag?
Or how Freddy can put down a snare?
Or how clown can just throw a bottle on the ground?
Skull Merchant needs to tag you 3 times with a Drone to do anything (and people tend to hate playing against her + she's getting reworked down the line anyway).
Hag is 110% (and again, people also generally hate playing against her). You can also mindgame a Hag trap by skirting the edges of it. It also has a longer setup time than just dropping a guard.
Trapper can only realistically block one interactable with a Trap, not necessarily the entire loop. He also has to take much more time than Knight did.
Freddy…. is Freddy. I kid, but both Clown and Freddy's ability don't do direct damage. They both make it harder to loop, but don't directly kill you like the guards do.
-
@AmpersandUnderscore said:
Just make it 2 minutes. If the survivors haven't completed 5 gens in 2 minutes the killer clearly deserves a free 4k.
You have a strange tendency to defend people who hold the game hostage.
@HexHuntressThighs said:
Honestly 30 minutes wouldn’t be awful. I’ve never once had a match go past 30 minutes. But that might encourage killers to just stall as long as they can.
Yeah, they don't want it to be attainable in any sort of regular match. I think 30 minutes would be too short. It's meant to be really generous as a last resort kind of thing.
Instead, they need to improve AFK Crows. People who don't interact with the objective at all for an extended period of time should accrue them. I'm talking like minutes at a time, though. Something to prevent people from hiding forever and dispelling crows with items or a locker.
-
@BurnedHusk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3785174#Comment_3785174
can’t they broke grappling, leland has to run grapple perk to stand a chance, and choose not in that spec line
I mean yeah the game is super cooked right now, but before that…
-
Unlikely. This is probably just minor numbers tweaks.
-
@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3785744#Comment_3785744
Im not talking about double wind up, Im talking about green charge and yellow recovery.
At a short distance if you hit back to back hatchets, you can down almost as fast as double charge + tink
That also isn't anywhere near the same, either. It requires them to be in the open, you can still break LOS easily.
Machine gun was problematic because it allowed you to get guaranteed hits at most loops. This is not the case with Babushka + Haft.
-
@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3785694#Comment_3785694
Love how youre making assumptions already 👍
Huntress was regarded (still is) one of the most balanced killers in the game and the buffs were just out of nowhere. Her getting 7 hatchets is an understandable buff due to poor locker spawns, but is also lazy considering they could very well improve said locker spawns to not only help Huntress, but Trickster and Dredge as well (who are in a weaker state than Huntress, even after their buffs)
Her buffs also brought back sudo Machine Gun Huntress, since her recovery and faster wind up speed with Babushka and the yellow Haft can down just as fast. All this did was make her better at what she was already strong at: deadzones and camping.
Finally the movement speed buff, this Im actually fine with. On PTB though it was absurd
Bringing up MMR is pointless. If it was really anything to go by Nurse would be number 1 in killrates but shes still in the lowest even at "top MMR".
And finally, Ill admit she isnt my most played killer, but she is FAR from my least. And it doesnt take hundreds or even thousands of hours on each individual killer to realize what changes are good or bad for them.
Eh, double windup is nowhere near as fast as it was back in the days of machine gun huntress.
It's roughly the same as old double windup, they were nerfed to compensate for the basekit changes. Maybe like a couple of percent more?
Like babushka/braid + tink back in the day was legitimately comparable to current Slinger, it was that fast.
-
It's deliberate, so another survivor can't remove the protections for you.
Only actions you take will be able to disable it.
-
No, not really.
I still see more Blight players than Billy players, personally. I'd also much rather vs a Billy than a Blight.
-
@LadyOwO said:
Do you play survivor at all? I highly doubt you'd understand how absurd it feels to play against her. I can guarantee you that she's not balanced at all right now.
Yes, I do. I play a good amount of Survivor, and go against a lot of Huntresses (she is the most played killer after all). Her counterplay is largely the same, she's just a bit quicker winding up Hatchets and has 2 more.
I'm still looping her just fine. The only difference is it's a lot harder to make her run out of Hatchets, but I wouldn't say that's overpowered.
I'm not sure why you mentioned movement speed in the post either, that wasn't touched at all in her recent buffs.
-
Instantly dropping a guard at a loop and shutting it down entirely didn't really take any effort at all. Now you have to actually predict where the survivors are going to go. For that reason, I think it's pretty necessary.
-
50 Mage Hand cooldown??? hell nah.
-
@Ayodam said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3785474#Comment_3785474
I think Xeno’s tail attack cannot scale with Nemesis’ whip attack because the Xeno tail attack insta-injures while the whip only does so in mutation 3, when it grows longer.
I mean you can't disable the whip with flame turrets either. There's differences, but they're directly comparable.
The whip's Mutation Rate has nothing to do with when it injures either, it just requires a Survivor to be contaminated.
It's also longer than Xeno's tail even at Tier 1/2.
-
Is anyone running Bite the Bullet or Technician?
-
I'm not sure about a full rework, but yeah I agree Xenomorph needs changes. The tunnel system is cool and fun to use, but it's really the only unique thing about it.
Missing a tail feels incredibly punishing, and the range is extremely lacking. This is even more apparent considering the buffs to Nemesis, who's whip is directly comparable to the Tail.
I think Turrets in their basekit are too strong, and could use with Lambert's Star Map's effect becoming basekit.
The post-release missed Tail cooldown was way too forgiving, but I think it needs revisiting again. The range could do with an increase as well.
-
@Smoe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3785431#Comment_3785431
I wouldn't be too sure about that, after all, it's thanks to Clive Barker that we got Doug Bradley to voice Pinhead in DBD in the first place, as according to Doug Bradley's wife, Barker asked him to do for him as a favor. Also, if Clive didn't want to work with BHVR, then the Hellraiser dlc would have been pulled by now since both Park Avenue and Clive Barker have to agree to continue to renew the license bhvr have.
I believe the reason we don't get anymore cosmetics for Pinhead is more complicated than what you might think it is.
Oh, for real? That's neat.
Well, here's hoping for more Hellraiser content sometime in the future.
-
Windows, windows, windows. The #1 counter to Leatherface is running him on Windows, since the pallet game is heavily in his favor.
He's also a killer you want to be wary about being in his TR, always be on the lookout when you hear the heartbeat because being mispositioned can mean instant death. Take notes of the resources around you, and run early if you have to, he doesn't have mobility like Hillbilly.
Every Leatherface player knows Windows screw over his power and run Bamboozle to alleviate it. This might seem really annoying but it is super exploitable. Most Bubba players vault early to block the window, so when they get close to a window to vault it, run to the next loop pre-emptively and you'll gain distance on him.
Leatherfaces that fake a window vault with Bamboozle to mindgame are in the minority, most just instantly vault, but if you get a properly mindgaming Leatherface watch out. If they fake a window it can end up with you being mispositioned.
Advanced techniques to counter Bubba include learning how to utilize lockers against him (i.e: Learning the timings of when to jump out of a Locker when he Tantrums), and timing Pallet Drops in a way that stuns him, even if he's in a chainsaw sweep (this can backfire hard, though, so be wary).
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRbFGMgkz8wHopefully this helps you against everyone's favourite yellow-aproned maniac. Good luck, and happy looping.
-
@Smoe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3785326#Comment_3785326
Even if Clive Barker hadn't regained the US part of the rights to the Hellraiser 1, it wouldn't have changed the fact that BHVR would never have been able to use any of the other movies as they always only held the license to the first one.
I mean we could've gotten the other two Cenobites from the first film.
Either way, I doubt Clive Barker is all that willing to work with BHVR, which is a shame but I can't say I really blame him.
-
I think it's a visual bug.
Unknown is due an update soon. They're probably planning on giving half of the must-run addon to another killer's basekit, and then nerfing said addon, again.
Like can they please stop doing that, just make the entire addon basekit and then rework it at that point. -
Would be cool, but I'm extremely doubtful we'll get anything else Hellraiser related due to what went down surrounding that license behind the scenes.
Which sucks, I love the franchise and I'd love to see the other 2 OG Cenobites added as well.