Reinami
Reinami
About
- Username
- Reinami
- Joined
- Visits
- 6,317
- Last Active
Comments
-
@WishIcouldmain said:
Yeah they're the same
1.Both are completing the objective as fast as possible. While ignoring other things.
2.Both are legitimate and fair strategies. With enough in game and perk counters.
Honest opinion
For the health of game, BOTH need to be fixed.
-
@Rivyn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2302660#Comment_2302660
I wouldn't say she's overrated. She earns her spot as second best. Yet like every other killer, there is a certain ceiling she cannot pass. This is it.
Which is why Almo was bonked for his statement about Nurse not being the top killer. I really would be curious as to see what the devs thoughts are against matchups like these. Not for balance sake, you can't/shouldn't balance against the top !%. bit kist om general. Matches like these gives a good idea of how a map is played.
@FregglesFred said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2302672#Comment_2302672
Almo thinks Huntress Lullaby is OP.
I don't think he deserves a spot for an opinion.
Almo, you know, 50% of a DbDs balance team? He said on stream before they nerfed freddy that they don't know WHY freddy has a high kill rate, just that he does, and that's why they need to adjust him.
They literally don't know why things are broken and then just "nerf" freddy by "nerfing" the thing that isn't the reason he is strong.
Not that i think freddy was actually broken, he's not, at the highest level only nurse and spirit can compete so in my mind every killer needs buffs.
-
@oxygen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2302705#Comment_2302705
Why wouldn't they? When you're playing something competitively, as in tourney level, you'll do everything you can do to get any form of advantage that isn't against the rules.
They should just add an FOV slider and call it a day, or ban people for doing this. It gives an unfair advantage from something you can't do inside the normal settings.
-
@Stardust1998 said:
Seems pretty obvious I mean. At the tippity top against a team like Oracle, you will probably a very strong killer like spirit or nurse.
yeah, they should fix it.
-
@zeplore said:
A lot of players think the speed burst a survivor gets when Nemesis first infects a survivor with his tentacle is laughable and makes Nemesis have to hit you 3 times to down you instead of the typical 2 for any other killer power.
For reference, survivors do not get a speed burst when plague pukes vile purge (green) onto survivors, nor do they speed up when hit with a doctor shock.
Some survivors may argue that 3 hits for the first infection and down are okay since of what nemy can hit over and what he can do with his power, but being able to vaccinate 4x times and needing to hit all the survivors 3x times with tentacle to down, then 3x times more again if each one of them vaccinate, that is 24x tentacle whip hits and still only 8 hooks.
Do you think the speed burst on the initial infection hit by nemesis is justified? Why or why not? Do you think this was intentional from the start, considering the -20% MS hindered effect that lasts for 0.25 seconds upon initial viral infection?, Which is completely negated entirely by the current hit-sprint-burst?
He really shouldn't give them a speed boost unless they are actually getting injured.
They also need to fix the zombie AI. Countless times i have seen a zombie walking with it's arms out like it is chasing someone, then i go there and a survivor is behind the zombie running the other way. They don't even attempt to turn around, they just put their arms up when a survivor is in the area. I think they should at least face the direction of the survior.
-
@egoxeno said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2297328#Comment_2297328
Yikes! Those totals are much worse than I guestimated in my mind.
Here is the actual math behind it.
- There are currently 95 survivor perks and 84 killer perks.
- Each perk has 3 tiers
- It takes about 1.5 million BPs to level a character to level 40.
- After level 40 it takes ~50k per level of the bloodweb if you spend it wisely so the entity takes like half the web.
- There are 27 survivors and there are 24 killers.
This means, to get every perk on a single survivor, you would have to:
- Level 27 survivors to level 40 at 1.5 million bloodpoints each
- You'd get about 45 perk levels out of the required 282 on your preferred survivor (it would be 285 but i'm counting that you get 3 for free for your survivor)
- You get 2 perks per bloodweb after level 40 (most of the time)
This means:
27 * 1.5 million = 40.5 million
282 - 45 = 237 perk levels left
237 / 2 = 118.5 = 119 (round up due to entity taking) bloodwebs needed
119 * 50k = 5.95 million
This is a total of:
40.5 million + 5.95 million = 46,450,000 bloodpoints to get a single survivor with all the perks, no prestige
Now let's do the killers:
- There are 25 killers you need to level 40 at 1.5 million bloodpoints each.
- You get about 45 perk levels out of the required 249 for each killer (again already removed 3 for the already learned perks at level 1)
- You get 2 perks per bloodweb after level 40 (most of the time)
This means:
25 * 1.5 million = 37.5 million
249 - 45 = 204 perk levels left
204 / 2 = 102 bloodwebs needed per killer
102 * 50K = 5,100,000 bloodpoints per killer
For a total of:
37.5 million + (5.1 million * 25) = 165,000,000 Bloodpoints to get every perk on every killer no prestige.
TOTAL:
You need 46,450,000 + 165,000,000 bloodpoints to get every perk on every killer and every perk on 1 survivor. This is a total of 211,450,000 bloodpoints.
Let's say you earn an average of 25k bloodpoints perk game (survivors earn a lot less normally too), this means it would take you:
8,458 games of DBD.
If a game of DBD lasts about 12 minutes (factoring in queue times, loading screens, etc.) It takes 1,691.6 hours to do this.
-
@latinfla4 said:
Do any of you play haddonfield right now? My game dcs everytime right now 😉 that and last minute key changes...you want a quick game and I am helping you achieve that(to bad about other survivors using offerings).
If they burn an offering, i will facecamp them until they die or escape.
If they don't burn an offering i'll usually try, but if they turn out to be "hold w pre-drop every pallet, gen rush gamers" then i also facecamp them.
-
@TruffleTurtle said:
I swear blight is the only killer I see with the same 3 perks without fail each time. Always ruin, undying, tinkerer, with a 4th perk that's usually bbq. Not asking for a nerf. Just a mini rant I had to say
Because when you play against top tier teams (just watch tru3talent vs oracle on youtube) you basically have to take 2-3 gen perks and if you play even slightly off meta, you lose.
-
@Purgatorian said:
I was the same as you, totally up for the grind when I first started. Just like you, and countless others, the tedium of the grind possibly started to show within the first 100 hours for many others, probably not all though. It did however take me longer to get sick of it, maybe 200-300 hours, and a lot of new players are going to be initially drawn in then get bored of it when they come to the same realisation.
Bhvr think it's the grind that keeps players coming back to the game, in some respects a small part of that is correct, but as it is now people will some of those new players will leave.
Yes, bhvr would have gotten their money from what the bought however will also lose future revenue from them too.
They should make it easier to get perks and for those that want the grind, make more prestige options available with proper incentive to entice others to maybe at least want to try prestiging too.
You need to stop defending BHVR, it literally takes 1.5k hours to get every perk on every killer and every perk on 1 survivor. That's not even with Prestige. It is ridiculous.
-
@xenotimebong said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2296919#Comment_2296919
Running to another loop how? What key do I press for that again? ;)
There is a difference between running to another loop and just holding shift w and running to the opposite end of the map. Maybe a stamina bar that resets when you vault or drop a pallet or stand still for a few seconds.
-
@xenotimebong said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2296853#Comment_2296853
I think you’re failing to understand what I’m saying. I’m not saying that Trapper is OP or on the same level as Nurse. I’m saying that these killers have anti-loop powers which encourage survivors to drop pallets early or forego looping and try to make distance. If Trapper traps a loop, then how the ######### do you expect a survivor to use it? Come on dude, at least try to understand the point I’m making instead of arguing against something I never even said.
If you can’t anti-loop a survivor as Doctor, Clown or Freddy then you’re not using their powers properly. “He has to hit his bottles” is not a good counter-argument; I’m assuming a baseline level of competency with a killer’s power. Doctor can throw on a Discipline add on, or just, idk, get good and learn the timing, it’s not really that difficult. And survivors typically can’t use clocks to wake up when they’re being chased.
They run to another loop. Trapper require setup, as soon as you know a trapper is in the game, you know the area, the one opposite you spawned from, is probably trapped, so you should tread it carefully and disarm traps.
Freddy and Clown are the only ones i agree with you on. All the other killers you listed earlier have some way other than just dropping the pallet to counter them. Doctor has a very thin shock and you can dodge it. It also slows him down when he uses it, meaning if you dodge it, you have plenty of time to vault a window or still drop a pallet.
-
@xenotimebong said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2296665#Comment_2296665
There was no whataboutism in my post. I was simply arguing that this strat is popular now for very good reason.
If you “fix” this, you make certain killers extremely frustrating (even more so) to face. Can’t loop, can’t stealth, can’t run away.
Like, the solution would probably be to have rebalanced the maps so that pallets are not totally unsafe and not totally safe either, but have some mindgame potential and playability. You know, make it a more interactive chase where both sides try to read each other and make the better play. The devs didn’t go this route though so instead you have maps that are either still hilariously survivor sided (Haddonfield, Fractured Cowshed) or filled with short low wall loops and dead zones (Dead Dawg, Shelter Woods, some Autohaven). You can’t play the pallets on Dead Dawg against a killer like Pyramid Head or Deathslinger if they’re even half decent so you basically have to make distance and break line of sight all the time.
If you “fix” the issue of holding W, what do you replace it with against killers where that’s the only real way to play against them? Survivors need to have SOME means of prolonging their death, otherwise any not garbage tier killer who plays with half a brain will 4K almost every single game which is a completely unreasonable thing to expect.
Literal whataboutism.
I say, holding w, and just dropping the pallet is boring, too effective, and leads to only nurse and spirit being viable.
you say: But what about all these anti-loop killers.
That is literal whataboutism.
Stop being a Scott Jund sheep and realize that you can fix more than one thing at once. Either fix hold w or make gens take longer. Something needs to be done.
-
Just got out of a game as huntress. Solo queue survivors, some console, and hold w, drop pallets, 5 gens done in 4 minutes. Nothing i could do. They just move between junk tiles and hold w.
-
@xenotimebong said:
What do you expect survivors to do? The devs keep adding more and more killers that cannot be looped for any meaningful amount time, and the reworked maps have more and more dead zones and unsafe pallets, so survivors apparently did what killers always asked them to do and adapted.
It’s not very fun to play this way as survivor either. I’d rather use my brain a little in a chase but I also don’t really want to try to loop the really fun and interactive anti-loop killer, go down in 10 seconds and doom my team. So, sorry but until survivors get something else to work with, I’ll just hold W. Fun.
What do you expect killers to do? Survivors can waste 48 seconds of a killers time by holding w, no windows, no pallets, no nothing. 48 seconds. Factor in picking that survivor up, finding a hook, walking them to it, actually doing the hooking. And you probably just lost 3 gens. Now imagine if the survivor knows how to press spacebar at pallets.
Like, at this point you are saying that, if survivors play this way, it is boring for them, and the killer is usually lucky to get 1 or 2 hooks, let alone kills. If survivors don't play this way, killers are too strong at anti-loop at survivors die in 2 minutes and it is boring for killer.
So why do nothing? We all agree these are serious problems, let's fix them instead of throwing whataboutisms at each other. Like, lets fix the game.
-
@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2296461#Comment_2296461
BTB or SP would NOT counter Stridor 100% of the time though. Outside of their active periods, survivors running these perks will still be affected by Stridor the exact same as any other survivors not running Iron Will.
I don’t see the problem with these perks simply being silent against Stridor, exactly like they say they should be in their descriptions, for their very brief active periods.
Fair enough, but my point still stands in terms of Iron Will, which is the general complaint.
-
@TheClownIsKing said:
“When healing, you and the Survivor you’re healing make NO NOISE, INCLUDING GRUNTS OF PAIN.”
There’s no percentages here. It’s says NO NOISE. It’s just for the healing action. Make the sounds hidden, or don’t bother making the perk remove any noise. I’m tired of this crap.
This goes the same for Self Preservation. The description specifically says scratch marks, blood, and grunts of pain are HIDDEN!
Stridor Spirit is already strong enough without including MORE ways it CAN’T be countered.
(For clarification, both self healing AND healing somebody else was performed during the match. Grunts of pain we’re still made, albeit quieter. I already know Bite The Bullet doesn’t work if someone else is healing you, unless they have it too).
Survivors have 16 perks among them on a team, killers have 4. Killer perks should be stronger than survivor perks. Killer perks (or their powers for that matter) should not be 100% countered by a single perk)
-
@th3 said:
"The long standing (and wrong) argument of "it's not every team that does this so you can't fix it" is no longer the case anymore and it needs to be fixed."
It's still the case when you only look at your games and what happened during them. DBD has millions of games happen every week if not every day, and you aren't the only killer playing the game. All I see this post as is you are going against more teams playing in a way you attribute to the Oracle vs Tru3 video.
Explain to me what a killer should do against a team of survivors that holds W and immediately drops every pallet? I can abandon chase and find another, and then that one does it? Then 3 gens pop before i land a single hit. There is no counterplay for like 75% of the killers on the roster.
Gens take 80 seconds to complete, if survivors just hold w, and don't even drop pallets, it takes 48 seconds for the killer to down the survivor.
-
@Gaffy said:
Yes, definitely believable that your going against top 5 swf teams every game.
You need to re-read the post again. Obviously i'm not saying that they are all the best in the world. I'm saying they are mimicking their play, which isn't that damn hard considering it's just, hold w, drop every pallet early.
-
@Chewy102 said:
Watched 1 of those videos and peeked at the rest. Did he only ever do Wraith against that team? Wraith isn't the weakest Killer but he doesn't have much of a tool kit either. So most any decent team should be able to deal with a Wraith without much worry as he can only really do M1s.
Got no proof other than personal opinion. But Id think Demo, Billy, Deathslinger, Huntress, Nurse, Spirit, Oni, Exe, Nemmy, and a few other Killers should be able to do much better against a team like that. Mainly due to having tool kits that gives more options than M1s. Can't win every game but you'd have better odds at least. Wraith I see as one of the weakest Killers due to his power offering almost nothing or even being a downside at times instead of being a viable choice.
Using Wraith is just the wrong Killer to showcase the strength of Survivors. It only shows the weakness of Wraith.
Only nurse and spirit can compete against teams like that. It is the reason that competitive play is just nurse and spirit every game unless the tournament has rules against them.
-
@White_Owl said:
Have we come to complain about survivors running in a straight line and not loop? Strange times we're living in...
Well everyone agrees the fun of the game is the chase and mindgames, which if survivors just hold w and throw down pallets immediately the game is just extremely boring.
-
@VexTheHex said:
Err, not sure I'm that worried about a Nurse main being upset that some Survivors are playing in a way they find more effective is less fun for the Nurse main. I mean... you're just as guilty as them.
Can we not with the whataboutism please? It isn't product or useful. Stay on topic.
-
@VexTheHex said:
Err, not sure I'm that worried about a Nurse main being upset that some Survivors are playing in a way they find more effective is less fun for the Nurse main. I mean... you're just as guilty as them.
I'm only a nurse main because its the only way to compete against these types of teams. The worst part is that they can still win. I'm also one of the few nurse mains who will say she not only needs a nerf, but a complete rework, but not until we fix survivors.
-
@Mr_K said:
What? Survivors found out? #########
I blame tru3ta1ent. Although ironically, my hope is still that they fix this.
-
@WishIcouldmain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2296021#Comment_2296021
Well simply not every killer can compete yet against these kind of survivors. So only S tier and A tier will cut it.
That's kinda the point of this thread. It needs to be fixed. The game is fundamentally broken when survivors play in the most boring and safest way possible outside of 2 killers that survivors constantly complain need a nerf.
-
@WishIcouldmain said:
Which killers are you using?
Look, i have 2k hours in this game, not looking for a lecture, or some excuse about certain killers. If you must know, i cycle through most killers but i main nurse (for this exact reason)
-
@gibblywibblywoo said:
The majority of your matches are you playing against the best known survivor team in the world?
Now you are being hyperbolic. Read my OP again, they are playing in that exact boring way where i basically am forced to hope i get a hook before i lose 3 gens then proxy camp and tunnel.
No, i mean they are playing in the "hold w" never actually loop anything just immediately throw down the pallet way.
-
@BrokenSouI said:
You realize that's been the meta for a long while. Way before that video right...? It's the same reason why I've been using blight way more then Freddy latley
It's not how my matches used to go before that video. Maybe one out of every 50-100 games or so was like that, the rest were what i call "normal survivors"
-
@Harold_Shipman said:
If you have gained enough distance from them making a mistake and then they are pressing E to avoid your attack, they are literally using the perk for its intended purpose and you failed to bait it out, so no, you didn't outplay them on the loop at all.
The most common complaint with Dead hard is being used for distance to get from loop to loop or to get another run of a loop in, because this is what many consider to be unavoidable on the killers part.
That's not what people use it for, nor what is a problem with the perk. The problem is using it for distance, which has no counter.
-
@MadLordJack said:
Some perks do need nerfed precisely because they impact solo que way more than SWF and always, no matter what may come in terms of direct solo buffs, will.
That's not how you balance a game. If things are bad at high level play, and too strong at low level play, you rework that thing completely or leave it alone as players typically improve the more they play the game.
if something is too strong at high level play and weak at low level play, you nerf it. Because it is already "weak" in low level play, it doesn't really have any impact on those players because they aren't able to abuse the thing in the first place.
-
@Chilli_man2400 said:
You can’t nerf the tombstone addons because the achievement evil incarnate wouldn’t work
Achievements can be changed as long as they are no longer possible to achieve.
-
@BenZ0 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2291561#Comment_2291561
The difference is that the second chance perks of survivors arent that heavy of a impact in the match as it for the Killer. Since it is a 1v4. I wouldnt mind a second chance perk, but something that isnt so annoying and frustrating and boring. For example Cope de Grace is a PERFECT second chance perk.
Dead hard for distance isn't impactful? A single dead hard for distance gets you to a pallet you shouldn't have, extends the chase by at least another 25 seconds if you just hold w and if it happens in the first chase basically guarantees you lose 3 gens.
Noed is a terrible perk and people shouldn't use it anyway. But at the highest level play where camping and tunneling is required, you gotta give the killers something.
-
@DrFruityLoops said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2291989#Comment_2291989
He needed something? so he needs 0.35 second wind up time on the whip, 1.25 second cooldown after canceling it, being 4.6m/s killer. Yeah he has a lot going for him and this linger hitbox is not needed
Yeah he does, especially since he has to hit survivors 3 times with it to down them, all while they keep getting speed boost. Literally just hold W against him and predrop every pallet and oh look all the gens got done in 3 minutes because he has no map pressure. Pretty good job so far.
-
@Orion said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2291677#Comment_2291677
A good player who's trying to win will do so in the most effective manner possible. Yes, shift+W is very simple, but it doesn't mean everyone who does it is unskilled, nor does it mean you or I are better than them just because we use strategies that are more complicated and less effective.
This is what competitive gaming looks like: using the most efficient strategy to win.
I agree. But what i disagree with is the sentiment of "99% of survivors aren't like this so if you fix it it'll ruin the game for them" or the idea that it isn't a problem.
If the most efficient strategy is extremely boring, then the game isn't fun. It needs to be fixed.
-
@Voodoo_Thirsty said:
Out of 10 killer matches, 9~10 killers carry BBQ.
Out of 10 survivor matches, 1~2 survivors carry WGLF.
Why is that? I thought both of them give bonus BP? Why's BBQ > WGLF?
BBQ is easier to get stacks with and is not reliant on your team.
with WGLF, people can come snag the hook from you, survivors might kill themselves on the hook and it is heavily reliant on your team.
BBQ generally just happens to get 4 stacks from just playing the game normally.
-
@TheeclumsyNinja said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2287062#Comment_2287062
Watch how many times you go against a pro team in ranked lol 1/1000 matches maybe if that even. 99.9 percent of matches are not even close to that
That's not a valid argument. How often do i go against a pro CS:GO team? Do they still balance the game around them or me?
-
@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2287044#Comment_2287044
You watch a lot of videos. :) Have thought about cutting back?
...not really relevant to the current conversation. How about you watch that small 2 minute section and you will see what i mean.
-
@TheeclumsyNinja said:
The problem is True calls any situation he gets outplayed in “swf”.
Here we go again.
Who cares about any of that. Watch the match, watch the one with Dowsey.
-
@David_Leon said:
Hello. The end game chat could be disabled for PC players and replace it with predefined chat lines.
Predefined end game chat lines like:
- Good game / Bad game.
- Good job.
- Thank you for the match.
- We did it!
- Add me as a friend!
- That was easy / That was hard.
- Another one bites the dust.
- Better luck next match.
- Have a nice day!
- Piece of cake!
- My gaming chair was outstanding!
There could better lines to reduce the toxicity. Those could be assigned to the 5 to 0 keyboard keys and D-Pad for console players.
Pretty please ❤️
Or they could allow you to remove the language filter as an option. Then if you don't like the things people say in chat you can just turn on the filter, or turn off chat.
Removing chat isn't going to fix things.
-
@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2286973#Comment_2286973
I think the DEV will always continue to move in their slow, glacial way to achieve a rough balance for the MOST Players. Do I think they care about the highest level? No. Their job is to make sure the balance works for the majority of Players. The highest level of play is tainted by SWF, and that is why only certain Killers have a chance. Again, you are mixing apples and oranges. I think that once MMR is in play, they will take new steps to either up more Killers to that level, or slow Survivors down and nerf those Killers.
Dead by Daylight is always going to be a work in progress. It is a chaos engine with so many variables that nothing can be altered without countless other unexpected (and often unwanted) consequences. I think you are just parroting the stuff you saw on a stream, and you need to consider the source. They only care about them. The DEV care about the majority. The highest level is a small minority.
You can balance the game for both high and low level play.
Tons of games do it. if DotA releases a new character that destroys low level players but is terrible in high level play what do they do? They buff the character, and then change the design of them to make it so they aren't as good in bad player's hands.
What about the flipside, a character who is really bad in the hands of bad players but really good in the hands of good players? You just nerf the character, because it doesn't affect low level players because they can't actually abuse the character that way. Look at this video and how it talks about the base jumper item in TF2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1p42KtZOCw&t=3m23s -
You are basically saying "he only plays KYF so it doesn't affect you" but like, it does, because good survivors still exist in queue, SWF still exist in queue. I'm being hyperbolic when i say remove SWF. Are you going to also say that they NEVER play in regular queue like EVER EVER EVER? Of course they sometimes do.
There are still people who play like oracle does in regular queue though. And it is extremely frustrating when playing against that, no matter how rare it is. Because it is as your video said, nobody is expressing any skill, they just immediately drop pallets, and gens get done, and the game is boring.
Why would you NOT want to fix that so that the game can be fun for not only the average joe who plays the game while also being something that at high level has some great expression of skill. Why do you think the tournament scene for this game is a joke? What if the game was balanced, and fixed, and made more fun and more expressive for high level players? Maybe we could have a massive esports scene for this game like you do for other games like CS:GO, LoL, DotA, Starcraft etc.
The problem is you just come in, or make videos and say "BHVR is too dumb it can't be done" when that is a copout. They have the ability to make these types of changes, because they have done it before. They need to come out and talk about these things more openly honestly.
-
@ScottJund said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2286982#Comment_2286982
But he doesn't stomp everyone he plays. His competitive team only does KYF games. They don't even interact with the general population.
At that point you could make the argument that these people are playing 2 different games.
So why not just eliminate the ability to play with SWF and say if you want to play with friends go do KYF.
-
@ScottJund said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2286948#Comment_2286948
I don't think its ridiculous at all. He knows that almost no one is at that level so its not relevant.
Right, so he gets to continue to stomp everyone he plays right? Think about that for more than just 1 second.
-
@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2286954#Comment_2286954
Or if you don't automatically assume the sky is falling, the DEV will simply work on other Killers to make sure there is more variety at that level. The issue you are highlighting isn't an issue of MMR but rather of Killer parity. Don't mix apples and oranges.
Nurse and spirit are the only viable killers at the highest level, and survivors want both of them nerfed. What do you think is going to happen? There is a spirit thread here every day, top level streamers keep saying she needs nerfed with the exception of tru3 and look what happened to him for saying that...
-
@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2286795#Comment_2286795
Really? You think MMR will be the downfall of the game. Somehow making sure people don't play people too good for them is a bad thing? Odd, that is the same crazy argument some of the Streamers make. Again, they don't like MMR because it might show them as no better than any other person with thousands of hours.
Yes, i do. Because if high skill survivors only get matched with spirit and nurse every game (which will be a fact) then eventually they will get bored and quit. On the flip side, high level killers will probably get tired of having to sweat every single game, so they might quit.
If one side's top tier players quit, the other side's top tier players have to eventually get matched against someone. And then they will go against people far worse than them, and then those people will get upset and the cycle repeats.
This is, of course, assuming they don't actually balance the game at the top level.
-
@SkeletalElite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2286901#Comment_2286901
Even if you think DBD should be balanced around top % there is another fundamental issue. These top % SWF teams are all using comms and in some cases discord screen sharing on a second monitor to share information.
No matter what you do as long as the devs refuse to give survivors basic information (without needing perks) + voice chat, then balancing around these top level teams will make the game unplayable for anyone who isn't doing that.
Let's loot at the dota example. Pro dota teams of course are talking to each other, but even casual players can see information about their other team mates (like their build and current performance in the match), can see everything their team mates can see, have voice chat, text chat, and a quick chat.
Of course in dota it's fair because both sides have that information, but that show's scott's point. Because killer is basically a different game from survivor. In order to get it to be balanced the amount of large sweeping changes you would need is nearly impossible.
You'd first have to close the gap between a team of randoms and a premade team so there isn't quite as big an informational gap (WITHOUT USING PERKS, premade teams don't need perks to do it, why do solos)
Then you'd need to balance killers around the new power level.
Then you'd need to get all the killers at the same power level.
At the rate BHVR changes those things and their unwillingness to do a lot of it, it's never going to happen
Again, fix these things. Stop saying "It can't be done because the devs are bad" they can fix them.
-
@ScottJund said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2286901#Comment_2286901
From what I've spoken to Xeno about, he said that the game should not be balanced around their level. Specifically we were talking about Spirit and although they have no problem beating Spirits, he agrees she needs a change for normal matches, for example.
That's kind of ridiculous if you ask me.
"We are able to stomp basically everyone, so the game shouldn't be balanced around us"
-
Has anyone talked to Oracle about this? What do they think? Do they think the game is fine, do they have suggestions on what they would do to fix things?
-
@Moundshroud said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2286015#Comment_2286015
Except that there are people here who probably have double if not triple the hours Scott does; they just don't stream. Look, Streamers are a valuable resource (well some of them are) and I watched most of them as I was learning. I still watch a small handful because they are entertaining. A few are still teaching me new stuff. However, you have to understand that there are problems with the opinions Streamers give and all has to do with bias, i.e. how their bread is buttered. Consider:
- Streamers are, as you pointed out, doing this game as a job. That means that it is important to them that they look good. The only Streamers that really carry themselves (or did) on Dead by Daylight are the best of the best. That means they aren't (as a rule) really a fan of skill based matchmaking. Fighting other people just as good as them on a regular basis would make getting the content they want harder. In short, their motives are suspect.
- The advice they give is based around the level of play they face and that is NOT what most people play against. Their critiques of the game are based on the problems they have at the higher end of play. The game can't be balanced around the best Players because if so, as another pointed out, you won't get any newer players. Moreover, the advice they give will probably get the average player killed over and over again. They rarely target their advice by level. Some do, but most don't. They are like everyone else, seeing the game only as it applies to them.
- People tend to be blinded by celebrity, even fake celebrity. Remember ANYONE and I do mean anyone can, with 15 minutes of setup, be a Streamer.
So again, i bring back my point. When you get sick, and visit a doctor, do you question everything they tell you as well and assume they are wrong? Or do you have some baseline level of trust that they know what they are talking about?
Secondly, the game CAN be balanced around high level play, the devs just choose not to which will eventually lead to the downfall of this game, especially if MMR actually gets implemented.
-
@ScottJund said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2286577#Comment_2286577
And every single one of those games is not asymmetrical. People REALLY underestimate how much that changes things.
I work with game designers. just because it is asymmetrical does not mean it can't be done. All sorts of games have some level of asymmetry. Hell even CS:GO is hella Asymmetrical. Both sides have entirely different objectives to win, and have different weapon sets. Yet somehow that game is balanced. Sure, they both shoot things, but that's really the only thing that is the same for both sides, shooting and movement. the actually gameplay and strategy for both sides is vastly different.
-
@FrostySeal said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2286607#Comment_2286607
I just brought up Deathgarden, a competitive asymmetrical game that you apparently choose to either not read about or accidently skip over. Oh yeah, what about that other infamous game Evolve? The asymmetrical game that tried to be competitive but also failed?
Also the difference between those competitive games with casual players and DBD is that DBD started out and still is a casual game, those games started out as competitive games so players knew what they were getting themselves into. Turning DBD into a competitive experience would require so much work and effort that by the time everything was done (hypothetically) most players would be turned off by how much the game would have changed and how it is STILL imbalanced. I've told you this multiple times but it is impossible to balance asymmetrical games, you can't ever do it. The only way you would ever make DBD into a competitive game is if you removed every map except for coal tower, removed all the RNG from that map and made it static, kept only Nurse, Spirit, Blight, and Hag, and made it so they can only have the most competitive build, and the same thing for survivors too. Does that sound like a fun game to you? Do you think that people would still play DBD if it turned into that?
Smash bros is a party game too, yet they still balance that.