Nemesis: Speed Burst Removed on Initial Infection
A lot of players think the speed burst a survivor gets when Nemesis first infects a survivor with his tentacle is laughable and makes Nemesis have to hit you 3 times to down you instead of the typical 2 for any other killer power.
For reference, survivors do not get a speed burst when plague pukes vile purge (green) onto survivors, nor do they speed up when hit with a doctor shock.
Some survivors may argue that 3 hits for the first infection and down are okay since of what nemy can hit over and what he can do with his power, but being able to vaccinate 4x times and needing to hit all the survivors 3x times with tentacle to down, then 3x times more again if each one of them vaccinate, that is 24x tentacle whip hits and still only 8 hooks.
Do you think the speed burst on the initial infection hit by nemesis is justified? Why or why not? Do you think this was intentional from the start, considering the -20% MS hindered effect that lasts for 0.25 seconds upon initial viral infection?, Which is completely negated entirely by the current hit-sprint-burst?
Comments
When other killers that require multiple hits, (mainly trickster and Plague) don't give the survivor a speed boost, I don't really think it's necessary.
Trickster doesn't grant a speed boost until the Survivor is actually injured, and Plague straight up doesn't give a speed boost.
I don't think Nemesis' tentacle is as hard to hit as people say (even if the hitbox feels a little thin at time) but I don't think this would make him overpowered. He still has a fatigue afterwards.
But, if BHVR takes anything from this, it'd probably be "Nerf Plague"
I think 3 hits+vaccine is absurd in high level play. It's the equivalent of every survivor having two MoM procs per trial in a worst case scenario. Four high level survivors absolutely abuse Nemesis in his current form.
Honestly, just make the zombie interactions dependent on total infection and have the tentacle always injure. But having the tentacle be a 3 hit mechanic because a player *might* run into a zombie at some point is ridiculous IMO
I agree to remove the speed boost from a tentacle strike, however I think zombies should still keep theirs.
It really feels like the hindered portion is suppose to last 2.5 seconds to deal with the speed burst survivors normally get.
Wasen't this even the case in the ptb? I don't remember anyone mentioning how problematic the speed burst on the first tentacle strike was then. Like it would have been noticed if it was the same as in the life version right?
He really shouldn't give them a speed boost unless they are actually getting injured.
They also need to fix the zombie AI. Countless times i have seen a zombie walking with it's arms out like it is chasing someone, then i go there and a survivor is behind the zombie running the other way. They don't even attempt to turn around, they just put their arms up when a survivor is in the area. I think they should at least face the direction of the survior.
This is fine, zombies only really get hits on indoor maps where you can't maneuver around them easily in a room, they have little impact on a match, they can grant speed bursts sure.
It was the same on PTB I believe. 0.25 seconds of -20% MS, and that's only on initial infection. Any other tentacle strike hits don't grant the hindered effect. I'm not sure how many seconds or lack thereof the licker tongue add on adds to the hindered effect. I don't think the speed up is valid on the first strike, the cool down is long enough for the survivor to adjust accordingly to prevent getting hit a second time, with or without the 0.25s of -20% MS
Remove the speed burst. Like ASAP.
Even if the survivor runs in a straight line across the map, 3 hits takes quite a bit of time to down them.
Remove the speed boost on the infection and he'd probably be mostly fine.
The only time I see significant success is when survivors choose to stay at loops rather than use the speed boost and hold W to waste my time. 3x hits holding W should at least be 30-40 seconds, that's without thinking or doing anything as the survivor, just holding W and using the speed burst to hold W in opposite direction
Yeah, possibly nerf Plague is coming :d
Noone playing seriously on PTB, because of that real problems seeing in live.
There’s nothing wrong with the zombies AI. They’re supposed to be braindead. They’re ZOMBIES. The reason why they were going the wrong way when you arrived is because all we need to do is break their line of sight by going around a rock and run the opposite direction.
The Whip is not free (its range is very short 5m tier 1-2 6m tier3. So a smart survivor can just run straight away from you at a palette and you will miss the whip (which slows you down).
Survivor just have to adapt that unlike PH dodging away from Nemesis is the better option.
Just Sprint burst from initial infection to a loop where whip is not easily useable, or it's a 50/50 gamble at a pallet jungle gym. You will either still waste a large amount of the killers time before you get downed where any other killer with a power could likely down you beforehand, or get nemy to drop chase and vaccinate, undoing the effect of the initial whip in the first place.
This is how I feel.
A good team will exploit the vaccinnes and the infection hit to the max, but when Nem has that infected survivor at a loop.... that's pretty universally a free down for him, even if you go for an early pallet drop chances are you'll get hit over it as he can ready his power faster (and quieter) than huntress.
I get that right now he's weak because of this but I think removing the speed boost would be catastrphic and launch his kill rate into the skies, most likely resulting in heavy nerfs anyway. I'd rather he stay relatively fun/fair and mid tier then hated and constantly get DCed against.
Remove vaccinnes if you have to but removing that speed boost is removing his only counterplay right now.
He has counterplay. Hold Shift + W. If he is close, force him to m1. You can dodge him tentacle. You can make him run around pallet. He is same like PH. If you can play againts PH, Nemesis will not be problem for you.
It's very weird because even if Trickster misses, he has 69 other daggers to align into the survivors spinal column.
If Nemesis misses there's a long ass cooldown and you still have to infect the survivor before you can even damage the survivor with your power.
Not that I don't think missing shouldn't be punishing, it should, but for the risk of missing, the success reward is pretty mild.
Exactly, the infection speed boost IS his counterplay. That in itself is a problem because no one finds the shift W aspect of chases at all fun. And no, you can't dodge the tentacle if the player is good. When a survivor makes it clear they're attempting to juke you either go for an angle strafe hit and get it or you wait it out and they'll duck back into it. That's all there is to it.
Yeah but those killers have an added effect when they use their powers, you can't use pallets if doctor shocks you, you can't heal against a plague if she pukes on you, with nemesis...is there even a side effect when you whip a survivor other than turning their screen slightly blue on the edges of the screen? it should do more, give it an effect even a small one.
Since the first hit with Tentacle Strike doesn't injure the survivor and only infects them, they aren't in danger and shouldn't warrant receiving a speed boost. Since many things are changed for "consistency" I think actions that damage survivors(changing health states) should be the only thing to speed them up.
Having to use the tentacle to get initial infection and the survivor being healthy and getting a speed boost out of it is similar to old Freddy, how you can't attack them until they fall asleep. A killers power should be better than the m1, or enhance the m1 in some way. It is almost always more time efficient to m1+m1 to down as nemesis than to m2+m2+m2. This could be remedied by removing the sprint burst in initial infection though.
Ow you're gona love this licker tongue adds..... 0.15 seconds of hindered , for a grand total of 0.4 seconds... nwm the fact that the Hindered status effect is even applyed is not mention in the Power tooltip, alot of poeple on PTB were looking at licker tongue going "wait , when do i Hinder survivors?" ....
And it's the only addon that does this, no Brown -> Purple version. Aftertought much?
I'd agree, in terms of chase, we've seen comparisons over and over again about how much time u waste and how it's actually better to go for basic attack downs at the start rather then trying to use your tentacle.
I have a feeling Licker Tongue was originally a range add on, akin to pyramid heads line of range add ons, but they feared making him op or everybody using those add ons like with phead, so they opt out. Licker tongues are notoriously long so range would make more sense. For what it does in current state, it's definitely not a green tier add on, more like brown. It would have been cool if it added just 1 more meter, even if it was only to the T3 range of nemesis whip, then tone down Marvin's Blood and bump base mutation rate when landing hits without Marvin's Blood.