Reinami
Reinami
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- Reinami
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4077899#Comment_4077899
You said survivors are rewarded for failing their objective by perks and mechanics triggered by being hooked. Being hooked is not a failure. And someone else being hooked certainly isn't either. FT never rewarded the person being hooked. And DS and OtR aren't punishments if you aren't tunneling. They're non-issues. The only failing the objective is not getting the gens done, and there's no way around that. No basekit tmechanic makes them go faster or finishes them for the survivor. And even if they do finish that objecrive, there's a bunch of endgame killer perks that activate, and survivor ones that deactivate.
Maybe the exit gates should auto open when the gens are done. I mean, the survivors finished their objective and the killer is losing. It's kinda handholdy to have that extra step. Everything depends on the angle you look at it from.
It doesn't really matter, by DEFINITION, the objective of the survivors is to "survive" and getting hooked actively goes against that objective. Pretending that it isn't at least adjacent to their objective is disingenuous at best.
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@MashedBroccoli said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4077885#Comment_4077885
you could say 4 man slugging is abusing a mechanic in a way that isn’t intended.
4-man slugging is quite rare, but i wouldn't say that. If BHVR has listed it as not a bannable offense and not against the rules, then you can't say its abusing a mechanic in a way that isn't intended.
Something like that would be like, blight hug tech, for example, which is clearly abusing something unintended.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4077897#Comment_4077897
Well, you clearly didn't hear me. I already said DS, OTR, Basekit BT are not anti-tunnel, they are delay perks/mechanics, and you still bring those up as if they actually do anything game-changing.
Basekit BT isn't an anti-tunnel, it's an anti-instant-down-off-hook mechanic. Wait out that 15 seconds, and the Killer can tunnel that person same as before. Same with DS and OTR, you can wait them out. Those perks are easily counterable and easy to tunnel through.
if you can't get somewhere in 66 meters of free distance, you are playing the game wrong. you failed at that point.
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@Galafure said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4077903#Comment_4077903
It doesnt seem like you have recently played the other side at all.
Do i need to post my stats again that show a 55+% escape rate in exclusively solo queue? Cuz i will…
This is last 30 days:
Which really is only low in play count because of 2v8 which i have exclusively been playing so its dropped off a bit, but it was around 100ish a couple of weeks ago.
Here's my 2v8 stats to show i'm playing tons of 2v8 for receipts:
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@CTL said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4077889#Comment_4077889
One thing you forgot to mention is that comp also bans full slugging, but obv you don't include it because it makes the killers who full do it look bad.
The difference in Comp SWF's to casual players who want to have fun with friends is massive however the difference between Comp killers and killers that just play the game is nothing compared to Survs its like this:
Skill levels between groups:
Comp SWF's → ————-
I
I
I
I
Casual SWF'S →
I
Casual Survs ->
I
Bad Survs —→ ————
Killers:
Comp Killers → ————-
I
I
Casual Killers →
I
Bad killers → ————-
This is a very rough estimate on skill needed but you get the idea.
Just to counter somethings you said, yes we have base kit BT. I'm glad a killer can say on our arse and wait 15 seconds so good.
Dead Hard, a perk that have been nerfed and a lot of survs can't use due to ping, what killers will always have advantage on.
Off the record, Never used it, Perks that are "needed" against play style type should not be a thing, perks should counter perks, play style should counter play style.
Fast track, A perk that was claimed to be broken, however it was never brought up that it was bugged and that if you used a brand new part on a gen and try to use tokens of fast track at the same time fast track did nothing, meaning when people complained about it the perk was in actual fact doing nothing most of the time and the real issue was the fact that a whole team was running hyper focus and stake out and brand new parts, most vids I saw from streamers claiming fast track is broken and they tried to show case it they put up a little timer to show the speed and they did the gen quick but they didn't even have any fast track tokens, yet they made it seem that it was fast track, it was just another target and excuse for some killers to be no better way to put it arseholes. Best example I can give is the Hens vid on YT about fast track.
If you can't get somewhere to safety in 15 seconds of immunity, you did something wrong. 15 seconds gets you 66 meters of distance before the killer can hit you. Keep in mind that most maps are 98 x 98 square meters roughly (roughly t he shape of a square but sometimes more rectangular. When you factor in the edges of the map are around 10ish meters, that is ALMOST enough to cross an entire map. If you can't get to a pallet, or a window, or something in 15 seconds, i'm sorry, but that is on you.
Talking about full slugging in comp is not relevant here. I was simply talking about the basekit mechanics in play. I personally am not super familiar with the current rules of comp (for example i heard recently they banned noed for example). But i was merely explaining how a basekit mechanic that was added to the game to deal with camping is banned in comp, which i find interesting is all. I really don't want to go on a tangent about comp because that isn't my main point, i;d like you instead to stay on topic and focus more on what i said about the base mechanics of the game itself because comp isn't what we all play.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4077889#Comment_4077889
Since when is getting hooked failing at your objective? The survivor objective isn't supposed to be never, ever getting downed. It's often done by design. There are strategic places and times to be downed. Killers also have lots of perks that reward them for hooking, just like they have ones activated by gens getting finished (which, by your logic, is failing their objecrive). The difference is that survivors can't just ignore regular gameplay. They have to complete 5 gens to escape.
When did i say hooking was them failing at their objective? And what about the survivor perks that reward them for getting hooked? The point is that killer perks tend to reward them for doing well, and survivor perks reward them when they aren't doing well.
Here's a great example, look at Hex NOED. NOED has been nerfed multiple times now because its unfun, because killers are "rewarded" for doing badly. Can you explain to me how getting basekit bt is not being rewarded for doing badly?
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4077885#Comment_4077885
"Why can't we nerf Survivors more?"
"I want Survivors slowed down so I don't have to apply pressure."
Serious answer: Because tunneling, camping, and slugging remove gameplay from the Survivors, but doing gens is the gameplay. "Genrushing" is merely Survivors doing the objective efficiently, not some special tactic or cheese strategy. Killers already have gen slowdown/regression tools, but Survivors don't have tools to effectively stop tunneling, camping, or slugging. DS and OTR only delay tunneling for a short time, that's why these situations are treated differently.
They don't have the tools to stop tunneling camping and slugging?
Did you play DBD like 6 years ago? How about when they added:
- Basekit BT
- Atnti-facecamp
- You have tons of perks that deal with it
Are you even playing the same game? Do you even hear yourself? The tools are constantly given to you basekit. The "slowdown and regression tools" are all not basekit, they are perks. But survivors keep getting them added basekit.
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@Galafure said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4077885#Comment_4077885
All of this is from my gameplay experience over the last year. Tunneling happens ALOT. Slugging happens alot, the excuse of FT is weak. The number of times that I do well and get slugged for 4 mins to deny hatch is often times 4out of 10 games more some nights. Anti camp will forever be useless for the reason you said and it has to be accepted. There are too many high mobility killers for it to truly matter. Now for the gen rush, don't know i play killer with no perks for fun. Don't care. But I have seen killers accuse me and my solo queue of it when none of us had perks for gen rushing or even a toolbox. It almost seemed like alot of killers feel that running certain perks are enough. Those killers I mentioned never kicked a single gen that I saw. I wonder how many people are actually getting gen rushed and how many are just thinking that their perks will carry that aspect of the game.
The point is, that when killers say gens go too fast survivors say "just apply pressure 5head" so then killers apply that pressure through things like, slugging and tunneling and now suddenly they are the bad guys.
I want you to really try and reflect on this for a minute, really think about it we have today:
- Basekit BT on unhook
- Anti face camp mechanics
- Anti-3 gen mechanics through the gen kick limit
- Perks that activate on getting unhooked and unhooks like:
- DS
- Dead hard
- Off the Record
- Fast Track (was nerfed at least)
At what point do you stop and realize that this mess was literally created because killers are constantly punished for doing their objective, while survivors are rewarded for failing at theirs?
And what will happen when you add anti-slug mechanics? Killers will just move on to the next thing. At this point i get accused of "proxy tunneling" like what the hell does that even mean? I once got accused of tunneling someone while playing as sadako. Mind you i "tunneled" this person and never actually hooked them, and was just teleporting to TVs
And as always i need to add my disclaimer. I DO NOT THINK that tunneling, and slugging and camping are good for the game. They are not, they need to go. But not in some half baked mechanic that is just going to get abused once again by SWFs that is so bad that comp doesn't even let the mechanic exist (you aren't allowed to unhook with AFC in comp btw, did you know that?) there's a reason for it.
At what point do we go back to the drawing board and realize that this isn't something that you can just bandaid fix and you need to fundamentally look at the base mechanics of the game?
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@MashedBroccoli said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4077842#Comment_4077842
and base kit anti slug should be back on the menu. Imagine if all 4 survivors could just bypass doing gens to escape. 4 man slugging is for weak killers who just want to cheese wins.
Punishing people for playing the game does not solve the problem because any possible mechanic they could create to deal with this will be able to be abused in a way that its not intended.
They instead need to fundamentally rework the base mechanics of the game such that tunneling is not possible from a gameplay perspective, and that slugging would be worse than just hooking the survivor.
And why is that we need anti-tunnel, anti-camp, anti-3-gen and now anti-slug mechanics in place but not anti-gen rush?
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@MashedBroccoli said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4077838#Comment_4077838
i mean if they all abandon the end game chat is right there.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4077837#Comment_4077837
they claim it happens in 3-5 matches, not just one. I’ve seen an increase in 4 man slugging even after fast track got gutted.
Watch Choy's recent video, he talked about this months ago, its just taking time for the community to catch up. Slugging is back on the menu.,
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He needs a buff in general.
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@NeverSolus said:
I like this idea in principle, but cannot conceive of a practice to make it appropriate short of severe limitations.
What I mean by that is that Legion, for instance, would have to be handled differently than Pinhead, who would have to be handled differently than huntress and so on. I could see it working if you had to pick between three or four killers (for the first event anyway) and build it around them, not dissimilar from 2v8's limitations.
My main for instance, Huntress, would be fine on the mode. But I can see Blight, or Doctor, absolutely ruining the mode.
Outside of that you'd need to severely impact movement speed while propped for example to avoid people looping with tiny hitbox props. Some kind of nerfs while changed that would prevent people from just turning it into a troll festival which is what prop hunt basically is anyway.
I'd, ideally, like to see a scenario in which the pool of players (let's say 10 people) are randomly assigned the hunter role versus the hiding role. Could be good grounds to get some survs to try out cheeky killer shenanigans whilst killers have to try some spicy stealth tomfoolery.
Chicanery! Chicanery I say! Gad-zooks the unmitigated poppycock of it all!
(I'm done.)I mean, for a rotating mode or something where you just play as trapper with no traps or something it could be fun,
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@KrazyKat1011123 said:
I kinda like how dbd is going, but I miss when it was scary. Now it’s more arcadey/comp.
The game stops being scary after playing it for about 10 hours. Better to lean into the thing that has longevity.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
This is what I would want to see for her:
- Blindness status while charging blinks and while blinking (then gets removed when you go into fatigue). Given the Nurse's strength and that the only two main counters to Nurse are distance and breaking line of sight, breaking line of sight needs to remain a consistent form of counterplay against her. Auras are too disruptive to this in a way that no other killer has and there needs to be a limitation on this without having to nerf perks for other killers.
- Stuns reset blink charges to 0; recharging begins at the end of the stun
- Fatigue no longer grants immunity to stuns
- Addons:
- Fragile Wheeze (Mangled addon) reduced to 60 seconds to bring it into line with lower-end addons of this type (was 70 seconds)
- Bad Man's Last Breath (Undetectable addon) reduced to 20 seconds (was 25 seconds) and cooldown increased to 60 seconds (was 45 seconds). As is, this is just active a little too often especially for how strong this killer is
- Rework the following addons (for being too strong or unfair design): Heavy Panting (I know this just got nerfed but lunge increase for Nurse still shouldn't exist at all), Matchbox (4.4 speed fundamentally breaks the killer and is the worst possible version of her design-wise, even with only 1 blink), Torn Bookmark (3 blinks will never be balanced or fair regardless of whatever downside it has)
- Rework the following addons (for being useless/negative utility): White Nit Comb, Dull Bracelet
- Fatigue no longer grants immunity to stuns
You think you want this, but you don't. The fatigue timer is longer than a stun, you do not want stuns to cancel the fatigue.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4076511#Comment_4076511
How many of those are through hatch? 🤷♀️ besides, isn't it confirmed by practically everyone that the official dbd stats page is just wrong?
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4076516#Comment_4076516
"Officer don't blame me for going 120 mph in a 25, blame the car manufacturer for allowing my car to go to 120 mph."
Not quite correct, because speeding is against the law. BHVR specifically calls out tunneling as something that is not against the rules. So this would be like getting mad at someone for driving 60 mph on the freeway when the speed limit is 60mph because you want to go 50 mph.
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@MoZo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4076513#Comment_4076513
people like you need to stop assuming bhvr purposely kept legion killswitched for a month. the reason he was killswitched for so long was because the next possible update that the fix for him could come through was the recent midchapter patch. the devs go on a pretty strict release cycle of PTB→ Live Release after 3 weeks→ Bugfix 1 first week after live release → Bugfix 2 second week after live release → restart cycle with a new PTB one week after Bugfix 2.
What do you mean "people like me"
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@Wezqu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4076513#Comment_4076513
For what two days. The next patch is most likely out on tuesday. Also you can report them if they are doing it intentionally.
By BHVRs own rules, if something can be killswitched, they won't ban people for it, because they can kill switch it.
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@Raptorrotas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4076497#Comment_4076497
Why should it be in jest when its quite usable synonymously for "rushing" in dbd? Both is "doing the objective efficiently, effectively or tunnelvisioning or wearing blinkers" ( these things you put on horses for carriages so theyre less distracted by other stuff)
I think its the negative connotation the (survivor) community has build up with that word. They do not want their derogatory term for killers used against themselves.
Survivors cant "tunnel", its called "rushing" for them, but remember that "gen rushing" doesnt exist because its just "doing your objective"
Precisely my point. "Gen rushing" is not seen negatively because it doesn't exist and its just doing your objective and killer's should just "apply pressure". But tunneling is bad and toxic and isn't about "doing your objective" as a killer. When tunneling is literally the killer doing just that and "applying pressure"
The reality is the same. You are playing in a way to optimize and efficiently do your objective as fast as possible, as a player, there is nothing wrong with doing that. But i do like pointing out the hypocrisy of people who say one is bad and the person doing it is toxic but the other isn't for some reason and survivors for some reason can't just "apply pressure" to deal with tunneling.
And as always, i need to point out my disclaimer because everyone always assumes things about me. I think tunneling is bad for the game and needs to be completely removed from the game through fundamental game design changes. But you should be blaming the devs for allowing it to exist, not the players for doing it.
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@Wezqu said:
Its getting fixed in the next patch already marked as "Fix Incoming" so no they are not kill switching Scout.
So they killswitch legion for a month but we can't killswitch the scout as survivors are exploiting it and ruining games?
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4076471#Comment_4076471
"Tunneling gens." Killer propaganda is actually something else. If you think survivor is that much easier, I implore you to give solo q a go for a month straight.
Do i need to post my stats again that show a 50% escape rate as pure solo queue?
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@Raptorrotas said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/HXVMSJX6057L/grafik.png
Well then you have 3 Survivors complaining about you being a tunneler and 1 Survivor calling you boring.
There's a reason I tell survivors to stop tunneling gens. No matter what you do as killer if you don't let them escape somehow you are the problem.
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@CatManThree said:
Everyone knows the variety of licenses people request for all the time, but what characters/properties do you wish were in the game or feel would be a great fit that noone really talks about?
Higurashi
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@HoodedWildKard said:
Haven't seen her for a while but had 3 nurse games in the last 2 days and been unpleasantly reminded how absolutely cracked and unpleasant to go against she is. Got me thinking, she's universally considered one of the S tier killers, probably the best and easiest to get good with. Her S tier brother blight is recieving a pretty major nerf in the near future, and I think she needs looking at as well.
How to do it without absolutely gutting her? You can't really change her blink much without ruining it, and a full rework would just turn her into a totally different killer. So. Give her the xeno/wesker/nemesis/singularity treatment. Add a type of tool that spawns in the trial for her games that allows you to counter her power or supress it briefly.
The issue with her is that she has no counterplay, you can try and mindgame her a little but against a good nurse that chase is going to end mucho quickly. So make something that allows survivors to get a bit of decent chase time against her to give people half a chance to do gens.
Few different themed ideas:
An aoe that supresses her power similar to the emp for singularity, (could be some sort of charm or like a photo of her husband) could also be placable like xenos turrets as a one shot counter that fizzles after and has to be replaced.
An adrenaline syringe that can be used for speed bursts, maybe with 2/3 uses and a 20/30 second cool down in between. It's medically themed and adds an element of skill to countering her, making nurses consider speed bursts into planning blinks.
Some kind of stealth tool to allow you to temporarily hide from her, like turn invisible for 2/3 seconds, again with multiple uses and a sizable cooldown.
Fight fire with fire, a charm or artifact that allows the survivor to briefly copy nurses power and blink to avoid her. Probably a one shot.
Bring back lightburn: perhaps add guaranteed torch spawns or a specialised item that allows survs to hinder nurse during a blink, requires good timing and skill.
Would be interested to hear people's thoughts. I certainly don't want to see nurse gutted and nerfed into the ground. But it would be nice to have a bit of counterplay against her and not simply hope the nurse player is bad.
Nurse is a problem from a fundamental design perspective for 2 reasons.
- She is often the lowest kill rate killer in the game, because she is extremely punishing and difficult to play
- She is still often seen as the best killer the in the game.
These 2 things are basically mutually exclusive. So i'll say what i always say which is, what do you balance the game around, high level players, or average level players? If you balance around average level players, then nurse needs massive BUFFS and you can't get around that, but then if that is the case, why did we nerf blight? Blight was only getting 2k winstreaks with streamers who have like 10k+ hours in the game, so what's the problem. So you balance around the top level players (personally i think this is how games should be balanced) But then, by definition, you have to contend with the fact that, when played at the highest level, we have maybe, what 5 viable killers?
However, all that aside, as a person who is a nurse main with 5k hours, and an 85%+ kill rate on nurse, i think she needs to be completely reworked. There is no amount of nerfing you can do (that still keeps her decent) that brings her in line, because she is fundamentally broken from a design perspective. So, i would rework her, make her weaker in chase, but less punishing to play as. There is a total rework idea i have, but realistically i don't see BHVR doing that. So, for that "middle ground" approach they like to do, i would do the following:
- Increase her base movement speed to 4 m/s (was 3.8 m/s)
- Make the Plaid Flannel addon basekit
- Increase the recharge time of her blinks to 3.5 seconds per charge (was 3 seconds per charge)
- Increase the base fatigue penalty to 2.5 seconds (was 2 seconds)
- Reduce the attack fatigue penalty to 0.5 seconds (was 1 second)
- Basically just take half a second from the penalty for attacking only, and apply it to every blink
- Make it easier to stun her during a blink
- While blinking a ghost "husk" is created at the blink location and a ghostly nurse is seen teleporting from her original location to that husk.
- Stunning the nurse will remove all of her current blink charges
So the general idea is:
- Make her a bit easier to play
- Increase her movement speed to survivor speed, so she isn't as punishing for newer players
- Making the plaid flannel addon basekit so newer players can see where they are aiming the blinks better.
- These 2 changes aren't going to really buff her for players who know what they are doing because the movement speed doesn't matter, and good players don't need plaid flannel anyway.
- Make it easier to dodge her blinks
- The husk makes it so you can immediately see where she is about to blink to as a survivor, giving you a better change to dodge her.
- The ghostly imagine while blinking means that you can better time a pallet stun on her
- When you do manage to stun her, she can't blink immediately and you get a few seconds to get out of range
- Make it more punishing for nurse when she misses a blink
- Increasing her fatigue duration and taking it away from the attack means every blink now has higher costs rather than just blink attacks, making it so when the survivor does dodge her (which is now easier) the nurse is punished more even if she doesn't go for the swing
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@MissiCiv said:
They shadow nerfed his shock delay addons because they gave him a joke buff ( without saying anything in the patch notes )
The best part is, if you take both addons its a nerf from before the patch.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4076003#Comment_4076003
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4076005#Comment_4076005
I can grab a screenshot with at least 6.
Great, you should post it so the devs can see it and fix the issue.
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@Valuetown said:
I think there is a bug with nemesis zombie respawns in 2v8. Just had a match where there were 15+ zombies walking around at one time. I don't have a screenshot as it caught me so off guard I forgot to take one. I'm seeing a large amount of nemesis' being chosen, so I'm curious as to how many others are aware of this bug. Is there an ETA on the killswitch while a fix is implemented?
I have been playing him, there's only 4 zombies.
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4075285#Comment_4075285
When Googled:
Sportsmanship is the ethical, courteous, and fair behavior exhibited by participants in sports, encompassing respect for opponents, officials, and teammates, alongside grace in both winning and losing. Key examples include applauding an opponent, accepting decisions without complaint, and shaking hands after a game. It prioritizes integrity and respect over winning at any cost.
Key Aspects of Sportsmanship
Fair Play: Adhering to both the written rules and the spirit of the game.
Respect: Treating opponents, officials, and teammates with courtesy.
Graceful Losing: Accepting defeat without making excuses or blaming others.
Respectful Winning: Celebrating victory without gloating or taunting opponents.
So…some of this is being violated here. No integrity, likely no respect, no spirit, and definitely not treating the opponent with courtesy.
Tell us, why's it to much to ask for basic decency from the other players? Dbd is a cesspool yes but humans CAN be decent to each other, why not in a game with nothing at stake?
Also, i'd argue that you expecting someone to play unoptimally because its "not fun" in a competitive setting, is unsportsmanlike
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@Rulebreaker said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4075285#Comment_4075285
When Googled:
Sportsmanship is the ethical, courteous, and fair behavior exhibited by participants in sports, encompassing respect for opponents, officials, and teammates, alongside grace in both winning and losing. Key examples include applauding an opponent, accepting decisions without complaint, and shaking hands after a game. It prioritizes integrity and respect over winning at any cost.
Key Aspects of Sportsmanship
Fair Play: Adhering to both the written rules and the spirit of the game.
Respect: Treating opponents, officials, and teammates with courtesy.
Graceful Losing: Accepting defeat without making excuses or blaming others.
Respectful Winning: Celebrating victory without gloating or taunting opponents.
So…some of this is being violated here. No integrity, likely no respect, no spirit, and definitely not treating the opponent with courtesy.
Tell us, why's it to much to ask for basic decency from the other players? Dbd is a cesspool yes but humans CAN be decent to each other, why not in a game with nothing at stake?
Yeah, it says it right there, its about how you treat people and ADHERING TO THE WRITTEN RULES. I know you are going to argue "spirit" but again, i already said you can't do that when these set of "rules" that go against the "spirit of the game" aren't even able to be defined because they are subjective to everyone. People can't even agree on what tunnel and slugging are, and you somehow want to, before a game starts, with anonymous players that you can't even speak to before the game starts, somehow come up with a set of rules that you all are going to follow that will keep the game "fair" for everyone? That is never going to happen.
explain to me how we are going to, without being able to even communicate with each other, decide that "ok no tunneling this game, also tunneling means this very specific thing" and have that discussion when nobody can consistently define it?
And again, it brings be back to my other point of it being allowed. Are we going to be mad at the other team in baseball because they "stole a base" even though its technically allowed? But its unfair and "cheap" right?
And of course, why for some reason is the onus always on the killer player to be this paragon of "fun" and "fair play". Why do survivors get to bring 4 dead hards and use basekit BT to body block while forcing a DS? Why do they get to bring 4 fast tracks and commodius with BNPs? Why is it ALWAYS on the killer player?
Lastly, i'm not trusting an AI as any kind of source of information.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4075261#Comment_4075261
The issue is not "fictitious rules" it's about sportsmanship. Genuine human empathy.
Content creators, even ones i don't like (i won't name them) have tested this with polls and shown that people can't even agree on what the definition of tunneling even is.
Sure there's contextual tunneling by circumstance, and these definitions are not all encompassing (the issue with these polls), but ultimately they don't matter when people only mean the most obvious form of tunneling everyone can agree on: the killer immediately drops what they're doing in an attempt to rehook the most recently unhooked survivor.
In terms of "most players not playing to win" that again is a failure of the devs for not creating either a proper matchmaking system that can actually match players correctly, or by creating a ranked mode where the people who care about winning can play.
The devs can only do so much. People will always sweat in unranked modes and people will sometimes slack off in ranked modes.
That's not sportsmanship. Sportsmanship is like, not being toxic in endgame, or saying "gg" at the end. Shaking hands after the game, if it were. Sportsmanship is not "well technically this thing isn't against the rules, but because its unfun i'm going to be mad at you for doing it"
Expecting empathy from ANONYMOUS people who you will probably never meet again is never going to end well.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4075247#Comment_4075247
For every other game you listed here, both sides are on paper even in power level. Football: 11 players on the field for both sides, both take turns with the ball. Chess: both sides have identical pieces. Call of duty: all items can be used by all players.
For DbD, this is not the case on purpose. This invalidates all your examples. Also, the amount of resources survivors have for self reliant anti-slug is miniscule: Conviction: requires a completed heal on another survivor, you will go down again anyway. Soul guard: requires a revealed hex, so you would have to play at a disadvantage for whatever the hex does. No mither: you are broken for the entirety of the trial. Boon: exponential: requires totem RNG, only within a certain radius, killer can take 1 second to snuff totem. Unbreakable: you can only use it once, then it's gone. The only one of those with zero strings attached is unbreakable aka the only reliable anti-slug comes down to one perk. Yes this is totally the equivalent of someone leaving their queen unguarded, yes indeed (sarcasm).
I think you're right about not blaming players for using strategies to win, but when it goes so far that a majority of these players aren't even doing it to win, they're doing it to make the other team miserable, at what point do we have an ethics, integrity, and sportsmanship problem?
But you see the problem you have created. You can't create a set of made up fictitious rules that the game knows nothing about, and then expect another anonymous player to abide by those rules, especially when those rules are by definition subjective and different for each player.
Content creators, even ones i don't like (i won't name them) have tested this with polls and shown that people can't even agree on what the definition of tunneling even is.
In terms of "most players not playing to win" that again is a failure of the devs for not creating either a proper matchmaking system that can actually match players correctly, or by creating a ranked mode where the people who care about winning can play.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4075081#Comment_4075081
If the way they are playing the game is so powerful that it is uncounterable, then you need to be complaining at the devs, not the players for using it.
We've been doing that for, what, nine years? Almost ten? And several times the devs were about to address it, only to scrap it and give up on it. So yes, we're going to keep on complaining about it, and then maybe someday it'll get addressed. And that's a big fat MAYBE.
RIGHT, which should tell you something, it means that maybe the strategy isn't as uncounterable as you think it is. Or, because the devs realized its hard and its not a simple problem to solve (hint: its not). But the devs are the devs, they could easily announce tomorrow that tunneling is a bannable offense. But they don't which should tell you something.
As i always say in these discussions btw, i think tunneling is bad for the game.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4075093#Comment_4075093
Why do we keep acting like players don't make choices? The devs are partly responsible, and so are the players, if you're chosing to do something you damn well know is hated. People can take some responsibility for their actions.
Players do make choices, but why is it a player's responsibility to play in a certain way that you like? This is like complaining about people "camping" in call of duty. Or if i'm playing chess should i not take your queen if you leave it open because its "unfair" or "unfun" to lose your queen?
The point is, looking at tunneling as a strategy, one of 2 things is possibly true. Either:
- The strategy is hard for you to counter and you have a tough time against it. If that is the case, then as your opponent, would it not make sense for me to exploit a weakness in your game? If i'm playing against another team in football, and my team recognizes that your team does poorly if we just run the ball, does that make us "cheap" or "unfun" or "unfair" if we run the ball every play? At that point, the onus is on YOU to get better and learn the counter. If you can't do that, then you will continue to be a victim to it forever.
- The strategy is extremely powerful and very difficult, or perhaps even impossible to counter. If this is the case, then why would someone not use that strategy to win? If the strategy is so good, that it results in me winning all the time, and i'm trying to win, then i would be foolish not to use that strategy. If that is the case, then, and by the way i would agree with this, the strategy is too powerful, and needs to be changed to either be weaker, or not possible by the developers. But, until that is the case, and as long as it is still within the rules of the game to do, then the only person you should be blaming is the developers.
Blaming players for playing the game is never a good strategy.
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@MDRSan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4075081#Comment_4075081
If only there were a forum where we could discuss our concerns with the way the game is designed and how some players are abusing it…
But right there, your last statement is already incorrect "players abusing it". Nobody is "abusing" anything. They are playing the game within the rules of the game, the problem is you just don't like it. Which is fine, but you are blaming the players.
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@MDRSan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4074988#Comment_4074988
Killers don't want to deal with the hatch so they slug for the 4k.
Killers don't want to deal with survivor perks or mechanics around hooks so they just slug.
Sounds to me like some killers just don't like playing the game as designed and want to cheese their way to easier, low effort, steam roll victories.
At the end of the day, it's just backfilling an excuse to play like a jerk. They were always going to slug from the get go - this week's excuse just happens to be fast track.
Survivors don't want to deal with ghoul so they just DC
Survivors don't want to deal with any killer mechanics so they just complain until they get basekit changes.
Sounds to me some survivors just don't like player the game as designed and want to cheese their way to easier, low effort, steam roll victories.
The point is, you don't get to dictate how people play the game, if you don't like how they are playing the game, learn how to counter it. If the way they are playing the game is so powerful that it is uncounterable, then you need to be complaining at the devs, not the players for using it.
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@Brimp said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4074424#Comment_4074424
While yes it will be bad the time it gets added. It opens up the future to having better perks overall. Also yeah it shouldn't really affect killer powers as much.
Precisely why it shouldn't go live until its ready then. If it it "isn't good until other stuff gets changed" then why not wait to change those other things so that we can actually properly test it. Otherwise all the data will just be "it sucks"
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@TamaraLatte said:
Has there been a YouTube video on slugging billy or something? I keep getting matched with killers who slug at 5 gens, like that's the goal of the game. Anyone else getting them? I've just started going AFK now, cause trying to deal with that in solo queue is a nightmare.
Slugging is going around again because of fast track, its just yet another thing that survivors get when you hook them. So if you just don't hook survivors you don't have to deal with:
- DS
- DH
- BT
- Basekit BT
- AFC
- Fast Track
- Kindred
- Resurgance
- We'll Make it
Whereas with just slugging there's only a handful of perks you have to deal with, and they are far less common than the ones above. So its simple math.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4074803#Comment_4074803
The profile does not fit any of your description. Gameplay-wise there is 0 reason why the Killer should see the profile of the Survivors. And because of that, Killers are lobbyshopping until they find people with less enough hours.
It might not be possible to do anything about that outside of hiding it a bit better. I believe steam will show you who you are in a lobby with even if the devs turned the feature off in the game itself to like, click names and view a profile. And you already can't see profiles for people on other platforms anyway.
The tools already exist as a player to do this, you can limit viewing of your profile to remove things like hours, or even make the entire profile private.
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@Raptorrotas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4074097#Comment_4074097
Wouldnt an outcome of 40:20:40 make it a 40% winrate? Of 100 trials you only won 40.
Think of it like chess, a loss is 0 points, a draw is 0.5 points, and a win is 1 point.
40 * 0 = 0
20 * 0.5 = 10
40 * 1 = 400 + 10 + 40 = 50
50 out of 100 possible points, is a 50% win rate.
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@Wezqu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4074090#Comment_4074090
There is only 3 abandon options for survivors so don't know how that is "tons".
Tons is probably not the right word to use. The point is, that survivors can abandon in more scenarios than the killer, and the ones they can are more favorable to them, whereas the killer ones are still unfavorable for the killer. Abandoning as a killer when all survivors leave means you lose out on tons of bloodpoints, and having to wait 10 minutes of being held hostage before you can abandon is far longer than the "get slugged 3 times and you can leave" as a survivor.
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@TicTac said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4074087#Comment_4074087
Not all killer play on their best map. Only the weaker ones like Ghostface, Midwitch on Nurse would be a massacre.
But for the mainpoint: Hens no rule tourney highlighted which killer can deal with survivor on which map.
The results are not perfectly clear bc comp team strength varies + some comp player have little experience with things outside of the comp ruleset.
I don't really like hens that much so i'm not going to comment on any tests or anything he has run. I don't want to get into it as i don't want to break forum rules.
As for exact map choices, i don't follow the scene that closely, mostly just lurk in discord, so i'm probably wrong about the exact maps and perks but i follow closely enough to see the philosophy behind their chocies. But the point is that the restrictions on survivor are much larger than the ones on killer because generally "no holds barred" against most killers is going to result in survivors winning.
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@mecca said:
No such thing in a weak killer. All killers are winning a majority of the time which means they are too strong.
The problem there is you are looking at kill rate, which is not the same as win rate. The devs balance around a 60% kill rate not a 50% win rate. Which is partially to account for the 1v4 nature, as well as for hatch.
You have to keep in mind that a 3k and a 4k are both a "win". So if i played 100 games, and got say, a 3k in half my games, and a 4k in the other half, my kill rate would be 87.5% and my win rate would be 100%.
But in those same games, if i got 3k every single game, i would still have a 100% win rate, but my kill rate would go down to 75%.
So now, if i play 100 games say:
- 25 games i get 0 kills
- 15 games i get 1 kill
- 20 games i get 2 kills
- 30 games i get 3 kills
- 10 gets i get 4 kills.
This would be a win rate of 50%, i would have 40 games lost, 40 games won, and 20 games a draw. But what is my kill rate? 51.25%. So my kill rate is actually higher than my win rate. There are other scenarios where you can have the opposite. But given that a loss can actually be 0-1 kills, and a win can be 3-4, it makes sense to skew the "kill rate" balance to something higher than 50% when you account for the hatch mechanic which leads to wins being statistically more likely to be a 3k, and in general losses tend to be 1k (just due to the nature of the game)
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@Rick1998 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4073878#Comment_4073878
blight and nurse i'm jot sure if i agree on . Those are the only two killers that deserve complaints . Any other killer then yeah a comp swf has the leg up always .
Even against blight and nurse survivors still have massive restrictions placed on them such as no duplicate perks, no duplicate items, and the anti-face camp is not allowed to be used. As for all the other killers there are other restrictions like, eliminating certain perks or playing on the killer's best map (I.E ghost face plays on lerys and nurse plays on midwich).
There are some restrictions on killer perks as well, but generally they are removing the more "RNG" type perks, as well as free aura reading like nowhere to hide which basically eliminates stealth as an option.
Perks in general (on both sides) are usually banned in comp to deal with RNG (which is bad for comp) or just completely eliminating an entire playstyle (like nowhere to hide) which makes it hard to have interesting games.
The game is a mess for comp in general TBH, too many unfun things that lead to skewing game balance too much.
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@iloveandhatethisgame said:
Has anyone noticed the trend on YouTube where you just see videos of survivor bashing? What gives?
More us vs them TBH. For every one of these videos you are talking about i can show you another video of a survivor solo/squad laughing at killers they "make DC" Its all engagement bait because the us vs them thing is what gets clicks.
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@vol4r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4073532#Comment_4073532
Oh the fast track whining is actually important. This perk is terrible for killers right now.
Nurse doesn't need a total rework, just some nerfs. Disabling aura while holding m2 would be a good start.
We need to remember, that this killer is very hard on the entry level, but too strong if player is experienced.Dead hard is extremely easy to counter - you just wait few seconds.
Hyperfocus is strong, but only when paired up with stake out.
With more than 10k hours I can't ever keep the 6+ great skill check streaks. At 3-4 skill checks it's very difficult.First has great potential and can 2-tap people very easily… but he is kinda slow.
I kinda want him nerfed, because you can win 3 mind games and dodge the hits, but he can shoot to often and kill you easily.As a nurse main, she needs a complete and total rework. Every "nerf" you could possibly propose, doesn't do anything other than make her more out of reach for your average DBD player (which is most people by the way) and makes it so the ones who are really good with her aren't going to feel the nerf.
The only other option would be nerfing her to literal uselessness like Skull merchant, by like, halving her blinks or something ridiculous, and just making her completely bad and unplayable. Which that isn't really good for the game either.
Even the blight nerf is short sighted, because again, those top tier blights getting 2k winstreaks? They are still gonna get 2k win streaks. Its just going to hurt timmy who isn't very good at this game and will make him switch off blight. But timmy was never the problem.
On a slight tangent, i think a nurse rework would be one that nerfs her chase power, but buffs her map control, and making her a little easier to play.
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@Your_Dad_Playing_DbD said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4073835#Comment_4073835
Why? What is the point? Best case, you get everyone saying “GG” to each other. So we need to keep the ability for people to say GG so that the other 99% of extremely toxic post game chats can remain?
Because positive interactions do happen. I have met people, chatted with them, friended them after, and various other things. If the chat goes toxic, i literally click a button and move on. And you 100% completely have the option to opt out in a way where you would never know what people are saying.
The point is, give people options, let them decide for themselves.
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@Your_Dad_Playing_DbD said:
The post game chat just needs to go altogether. Its only purpose is to give people the opportunity to be super toxic. Don’t even give people a platform to do that.
Hard disagree, the censorship does need to be removed and made a toggle option. If you find the chat toxic, there is literally a button to click and turn it off so you never see the chat. If you choose not to use it, that is on you.
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@Filipino1490 said:
So lately I have been running in to perks like sprint burst, lithe etc. The other exhaustion perks are mostly fine while smash hit being the best designed exhaustion perk. But the perks i want to talk about are sprint burst and lithe. I"ll get right to the chase. They take ZERO SKILL AND REQUIRMENT TO ACTIVATE WHILE OTHER PERKS AT LEAST HAVE SOMETHING (except the overcome and balance landing) Meanwhile Most killer perks needs something to do in order to activate them while Sprint burst and lithe by just pressing two buttons and this creates a problem to the survivor gameplay and its that survivor gameplay is WAY TO AUTOMATIC and doN"t have to try while killers are sweating their sweats to get something while this game being an 1v4 game. So they should be completly reworked, give them a requirement in order to activate and probably decrease the numbers slightly example
Sprint burst: duration from 3 seconds to 2 or from 50% to 30% or 35% and maybe increase the duration of exhaustion from 40 to 50 or 60 seconds plus a requirement to activate.
Lithe: the same feedback as Sprint burst.
Balalance landing: from 3 to 2 seconds, from 50% to 30 or 35%, but to compansate slightly increase the amount of places to drop from on every map.
Overcome: Requirment to activate. from 2 seconds to 1 or 1.5 seconds.
Ghost notes: remove the 10% shorter exhaustion there is no reason for it to be here.
Rapid Response: from 2 to 3 or 3.5 seconds maybe even 4 seconds. from 20 to 30 to 35 seconds of exhaustion maybe even 40 seconds.
Smash hit: Is PERFECT.
Vigil: NEEDS A COMPLETE REWORK PLEASE NO EXHAUSTION RELATED.
Head on: perfect
iron will: PERFECT.
Dead hard: perfect.
Backround player: from 5 to 3 seconds.
Adrenaline: PERFECT.
Blood rush: Doesn"t need changes.
To me Exhaustion perks should be rewarding but also take at least some form of skill and not just pressing a button while also not being a abnoxious to face. Right now this feels that as a killer i am not playing against real players but instead against the perks. This really needs to be adressed. but because of those changes some killers could also get something to slightly compansate for survivors.
The best part about this post, is you complain about the ones that don't need complaining about, but think the ones that DO need complaining about, are fine.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4072979#Comment_4072979
The conversation I'm trying to start here isn't really about if Sprint Burst is fair to deal with, M1 killer or otherwise, it's about the comparative design space between these perks.
If they all have the same distance gain, then the perk that gives that distance with the most reliability and/or least effort will always just objectively be the better perk, and not picking it will always be a case of being willing to sacrifice less value for the satisfaction of running something different.
If, though, the amount of distance you gained was a balance variable, I think there's a fair argument to be made that there'd be more of a decision to make based on playstyle— do you take the most distance but play around trying to activate it, or do you pick the more consistent + accessible perk but make less distance per activation, that sort of thing.
Well that's precisely my point i think distance gained should be the same, and each one has different conditions to activate. This creates a situation where, you personally just take the perk that fits your playstyle the most. The problem you are talking about where people just take the best one, is what i'm saying about sprint burst. The problem is that each exhaustion perk has a downside in how they activate. But sprint birst effectively does not, because you can 99 it. So if you couldn't 99 it, then now it has a downside that is meaningful, in that, you have to walk around with it to not activate it early, or risk not having it when a chase starts.
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@jesterkind said:
To explain that title a bit, I'm looking specifically at four perks: Sprint Burst, Lithe, Balanced Landing, and Smash Hit.
All four of those perks trigger the exact same status effect for almost the exact same amount of time between them; it's always 50% Haste, and the only variance in duration is that Smash Hit lasts for 4 seconds instead of the other three's 3 seconds.
It's no secret that Sprint Burst has been one of the game's strongest perks since its inception, and Lithe isn't that far behind. Similarly, most would agree Balanced Landing is generally a step below those two, and Smash Hit - while still fairly usable - is a step below even that.
My question is this: Should a perk as broadly useful and easy to activate as Sprint Burst have comparatively identical effects to something as situational as Balanced Landing? Is it appropriate for an easily-activated perk like Lithe to give almost exactly the same distance as a difficult to activate perk like Smash Hit?
We already have some precedent for the effect varying, with Smash Hit's extra second, but I think it's an interesting discussion to consider if maybe the percentage could vary based on how easily accessible the perk is, alongside maybe the duration changing too.
I'm phrasing it as a question because right now it's just that, a question. I think there's arguments to be made both ways, so I'm curious what everyone else thinks!
I think its fine for them all to have the same effect with different conditions. It lets you pick which one suits your playstyle. The main thing is making sure that the effect is the same distance. For example smash hit lasts a little bit longer because you are stuck in the pallet animation. I'd also say head-on could probably increase the stun slightly, or so its less abusable, give you a shorter duration sprint burst when you come out, so it can be a bit more in line with the others.
The main problem one as mentioned is sprint burst. The problem isn't how effective it necessarily is at dealing with m1 killers, because with sprint burst you can also choose to not take the chase. The problem is that it can be 99'd and then used in a chase anyway. That is where i think its probably a bit too strong. Perhaps maybe if it had a condition that said that it went on a short cooldown while you in chase, like 5 seconds, so that if the killer starts a chase with you it can't be used in the middle of the chase unless you first drop chase. That way it can appropriately be used as intended as sprinting quickly away from a gen or something when the killer starts coming closer to you.