Reinami
Reinami
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@Your_Dad_Playing_DbD said:
I remember a while ago a patch that included a change to spawns so that survivors are supposed to spawn together unless a separation offering is used. I often run Lethal Pursuer and in about half of my matches, one or more survivors spawn separately from the rest without any offerings used. Can a community manager or dev confirm if this is intended? Thanks!
Yes, and it has been broken for like 8 months, and i had a thread on it with one of the devs that just decided to stop responding, and it has been reported multiple times and nothing is being done. Hell even Scott Jund made a video on it.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4083530#Comment_4083530
One of Decisive Strike's main appeals is its efficacy at preventing tunneling.
This one doesn't say what you want it to.
Horvath: We decided to put a timer on Decisive Strike as one of the solutions to Decisive Strike being used too often, we tried 2 minutes internally and found that players were able to use DS a long time after being unhooked, where it
no longer serves the purpose to protect you from being tunneled/ farmedThis one comes closer, however, a perk having a specific function doesn't mean that that function is its only function.
Additionally…
We aren't talking about the first iteration of it are we?
That post is 7 years old and pertains to a DS that didn't deactivate upon conspicuous action.
And before you say 'well it shows their intent': Just like the intent of DS was changed after its release, it has gone through changes and iterations since, and there's no indication that their intent for DS is still the same.
Again, I ask you: If it's meant to be anti-tunnel, why does it only fire once? Surely, if it's an anti-tunnel perk, it'd work if the killer chases you off-hook twice in a row, right?
Alright, i tried. I'm gonna bow out. If you want to completely ignore the devs literally saying that its designed for anti-tunnel, then there is no way i can have any kind of meaningful discussion with you.
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@Wyndsor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4083533#Comment_4083533
This still fails to address why killer should win all of their games at a high level and why the best survivors should always lose at the highest level.
If you can master a killer and stand a fair chance in most of your games comp or otherwise (this is the currently reality,) then there is no reason for any killer (character) to be as oppressive as nurse and blight are.
Mind you, the strongest swf's still haven't even come close to the strongest kill streaks.When have i said that? I think they should win 50% of the time which is what you would expect.
However lets flip the question on you, why should survivors win all of their games at high level?
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4083533#Comment_4083533
We didnt saw all killers kill rates since this
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/KBN1BLDGMD8N/image.png
but I bet they arent much different and nurse is still at the bottom of kill rates on average mmr and high at top or near top as you said. The nerfs like number changes would make her terrible because I remeber how newer or less experienced people play her they either dont blink or blink totaly off survviors location.
Only rework would work and good one but I dont think devs aim here, they have to rework so many characters before they can reach nurse just this year its 3 and I think they will barely make it and there are others that need it too so I dont see nurse rework (the only thing that can fix her without making her terrible for lower half of people) isnt coming soon.
I'm pretty sure they released kill rates more recently than that, they just don't do it the same way anymore
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4083508#Comment_4083508
Yeah, and a lot of killers could trash this perk. I could have sniped with Deathslinger, Huntress or Unknown. I could have caught up with Wesker or Ghoul. I could have tossed a yellow bottle at my feet as Clown, I could have teleported as Dredge. Cool thing about this game is that there's a huge list of characters. You choose the killer. You can't pick Trapper and then complain that you can't combat perks (the usage of which is often broadcasted) that other killers can decimate. If the game was designed around Trapper, survivor would be unplayable. Choose the killer, choose the experience.
What's crazy to me is you had one single bad game (that was still a 2k) and it requires a whole post about DS. I'd be posting 5+ times a day if I complained about every outplay or loss.
You are being quite disingenuous now. There is a big difference between a nurse or a ghoul or a blight being able to chase down that DSed survivor, and a clown throwing a yellow bottle. DS hurts low tier killers way more than the high tier ones. An the super high tier ones like nurse, blight and ghoul literally don't care that it exists.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4083126#Comment_4083126
I agree with this. In my opinion, nurse's power is fundamentally broken and needs a rework.
How a rework could look like? I dont know, but ive seen a lot of interesting concept over the years. One I liked was that, she could only injure with her first blink but has higher movement speed.
If a simple rework doesnt do it, then scrapping the idea of going through objects entirely might be the way.
@Rickprado said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4083126#Comment_4083126
Do you think numerical changes might ever be enough for her? TBH, Nurse is one of the killers i enjoy the least to go against - specially if a master Nurse main - but i wouldn't like her to be nuked or reworked into a much weaker and generic killer.
You could just make numbers changes to make her bad, like doubling her cooldown or something. But that wouldn't actually fix her it would just "delete her" the same way they did skull merchant.
The real question to propose is. She is bad at low level play, she is often one of the lowest kill rate if not THE lowest killrate killers in the game, often less than 50%. So she's actually underpowered when played in the average game.
But what about nurses like me who have thousands of hours? If i'm going against survivors with 300 hours, sure i'll probably win every time, but that is more of an experience mismatch.
What if you pit me against a team of survivors with 5k hours? Am i going to win that match every time? Probably not, and that changes things.
I for one am personally in favor of reworking the nurse, but i also think that the fundamental base mechanics of the game need to change to start making the FUN parts of DBD the actual rewarding parts and to start eliminating the unfun parts. But if you rework the nurse because you accept that she is "too strong in the hands of a high level player" then you must also by definition, handle "survivors who are too strong in the hands of a high level player" and the fact that at the highest levels of play, there are maybe 5 viable killers.
Therefore, i don't think it is as simple as "nerf nurse" or "rework nurse" i think fundamental base level mechanics of the game need to change first, to make it so nurse is not necessary when you are playing in matches with the best players in the world.
For example, if you took the best 4 survivor players in the world, and pit them against say, the best trapper player in the world for 10 matches, how many matches do you think that the trapper would win? Now do the same with nurse, how many games would nurse win? Do this with just about any other killer and you'll realize that most of these matches will end with the survivors winning more often, with the exception of maybe 4 or so killers who might pull out ahead, and maybe another 3-4 who might break even. Then realize that there are 40+ killers in the game.
Basically, i think nurse in her current form must exist, as long as the game exists in its current state. Until then, i think any balance discussions are pointless.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4083520#Comment_4083520
What makes you think it's designed for anti-tunnel?
Your main complaint is that it functions outside the anti-tunnel constraint you set for it. You internalise this as some kind of design flaw, rather than the perk's design space being wider than what you give it credit for.
Additionally, if it was truly meant to be anti-tunnel, wouldn't it fire on -both- unhooks, rather than just one?
I probably shouldn't but i decided to humor you and did a quick google search. And i found many instances of the devs literally talking about how the perk is specifically designed to be an anti-tunnel perk. So i'll post them for you to see:
Question: What led to the decision to put the timer on Decisive Strike?
Horvath: We decided to put a timer on Decisive Strike as one of the solutions to Decisive Strike being used too often, we tried 2 minutes internally and found that players were able to use DS a long time after being unhooked, where it no longer serves the purpose to protect you from being tunneled/ farmed
- https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/48381/design-decisive-strike
Camping & Tunneling
On the Survivor side, there is a clear preference for perks that grant a second chance. Borrowed Time, Decisive Strike, Dead Hard, and perks of that nature help a Survivor avoid certain death, leading to an extreme usage rate.
One of Decisive Strike's main appeals is its efficacy at preventing tunneling. In light of the upcoming base game changes, we expect Decisive Strike to drop in usage slightly.
- https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/kb/articles/337-developer-update-june-2022
Specifically and multiple times here, the devs note that DS is very effective at preventing tunneling, and literally said that if the timer is too long than it would NO LONGER SERVE THE PURPOSE TO PROTECT YOU FROM BEING TUNNELED
You cannot possibly get more clear than that. It is obvious in both the way the perk is designed and the devs have explicitly stated on multiple occasions that it's purpose is to prevent you from being tunneled and designed as an anti-tunnel perk.
So at this point, are you willing to concede that the perk is an anti-tunnel perk?
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4083287#Comment_4083287
You're saying this right after complaining that the perk is not sticking to that exact design constraint.
Additionally, the very first iteration of DS had nothing to do with tunnelling at all.
We aren't talking about the first iteration of it are we? We are talking about the current version, which now you are deflecting trying to not actually answer my question because you can't. You know the current version is clearly designed for anti-tunnel.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4083123#Comment_4083123
No, it's a survivor perk meant to confer a benefit to survivors. Nowhere in the perk does it specify that it's meant to be a purely anti-tunnel perk. That's something the community made of it.
If it was purely anti-tunnel, I'd be fine with it getting more tightly constrained to tunnelling scenarios, but it'd have to be basekit, too.
So you're going to honestly tell me that you think the way the perk is currently designed it is not clearly and specifically designed to deal with getting tunneled? If you honestly think that it is designed to do something else, i have a bridge to sell you.
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@wesker_shades said:
For starters, let's just try introducing blindness, so that aura reads doesn't work while charging blinks
As a nurse main with 4k hours. This will not do anything. What she needs is a complete and total rework. Any possible change you could do simply makes her harder to play for the average player, but does nothing against the high level nurse players.
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@Nazzzak said:
People like to say DS can't (or shouldn't) be used aggressively, but that's just more community rulebook stuff. There's nothing stopping people from trying to get the most value out of their perks.
I'm not saying they shouldn't do it. I'm saying they shouldn't be ABLE to do it. Its not meant to be used that way. Its designed specifically to stop being tunneled.
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@Semper_Fi said:
Dead by Daylight already provides gamma settings and colorblind options in-game.
So why are third-party visual modification tools like Reshade still allowed?
This is not about skill. A strong player will still be strong. But altering the game’s visuals absolutely provides advantages in certain situations:
- Better visibility in dark areas.
- Clearer scratch marks, blood, auras, and environmental contrast.
- Easier tracking on low-light maps.
- Sharper visual clarity compared to default settings.
- Console players cannot access the same tools equally.
At what point does “visual customization” cross into competitive advantage?
And if modifying visuals is acceptable, where is the line drawn?
- Audio modifications?
- Louder survivor breathing or footsteps?
- Sharper aura visibility?
- Brighter map lighting?
- Increased contrast filters?
Whether people want to admit it or not, changing how information is presented on-screen can impact gameplay and decision-making.
Dead by Daylight is built heavily around visibility, atmosphere, hiding, tracking, and visual awareness. Altering those elements externally affects competitive integrity.
So ask yourself:
- Is it truly fair to all players?
- Is it healthy for the long-term integrity of the game?
- Is it something that should be allowed in a competitive multiplayer environment?
- If the game already has gamma and colorblind settings, why are external visual modifications necessary?
- If these tools provide no advantage, why are they used so heavily?
Curious to hear honest opinions from both sides of the discussion.
Reshade can also quite literally set it up so you can see the red stain through walls that normally you would not be able to. It is straight up cheating.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4081916#Comment_4081916
Your solution is a buff to killers who either 1) are bad and/or can't deal with rescue attempts or 2) weren't egeriously slugging anyway but will still get free stuff. The issue is killers who are loading in intending to slug everyone and circumvent the entire core structure of the game (because perks or something). As it is, it's already getting easier and easier, with more and more uncounterable mini moris showing up, on new killers that are stronger and stronger. I once again don't understand why killers should be rewarded for bad behavior instead of nerfing the tools they're using, like Infectious Fright. Somehow I don't think you'd be calling for global survivor buffs if a subset of survivor players were abusing something.
My solution calls for changing the fundamentals. I'm not saying "oh this will be fixed if killers get remote hooks" I'm saying a system needs to be built around it that isn't just "bad killer for not playing how we want punish them" but actually have some thought into a system that looks at both sides and their issues and addresses them in ways that is fun and engaging for both sides and creates unique gameplay opportunities.
Thats also without even mentioning, my solution was something i thought of in about 10 minutes while i was writing that post. Its not something i have deeply thought about and i even called it out in my original post that slugging is harder than tunneling and camping, because there are actual core gameplay mechanics that lead to killer slugging a survivor (i.e. a teammate going for a pallet/flashlight save) that you can't just throw on unbreakable and call it a day. Because doing so could punish a killer for trying to stop a survivor from making a save, which is not how it should work. You you just slap on "oh 30 second basekit unbreakable" then it means that all a survivor has to do is wait out the killer for 30 seconds and threatening a save and then the original survivor goes free. SWFs can abuse it to save teammates that otherwise would not be.
And yes, once again, if you slug the entire survivor team because they are being overly altrustic leading to the killer to win the game, that shouldn't punish the killer for survivors throwing the game. You need to do it in a way that fundamentally fixes the issues on both sides, while actually addressing the complaint of slugging.
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@The_Count said:
We just ask for a minimal of respect BHVR.
Don't try to make a fool of us by gaslighting with this kind of thing.Thank you for posting footage of this, this clearly demonstrates exactly what the problem is with pallets right now. There is simply too many of them too close together.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4082001#Comment_4082001
If the SWFs' sole purpose is to "abuse" a mechanic like that, they're not going to survive. Unless it's endgame or something, in which case the mechanic could be deactivated.
I will be bowing out at having a discussion with you on this topic, you seem to not be willing to even consider the other side at this point. It's clear you are just looking for blanket buffs to survivors without any concern for what impact it will have on the other side. Hope you have a good day.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4081967#Comment_4081967
Does it really need to be complicated? It's a nerf to slugging. And what "issue" are you referring to here? The issue of slugging, or the "issue" of Survivors having perks that activate with hook states? Even if these Survivor perks were changed, Killers would still slug, which would then prove that the hook-based perks were not the reason they slugged to begin with.
Because its a nerf to killers directly and a buff to survivors. Could it potentially address the issue? Maybe? But its not gonna help the 4 randos coordinate a save from a killer slugging very well. But it WILL be abusable by SWFs
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@Ghostofsnow said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4081754#Comment_4081754
Well, i try to look at it from a number and effort perspective. Slugging feels awful cause even if its barely 30 seconds more to bleed out compared to being on a hook, being hooked has work and thought put in. imagine if there was some passive generator item that could repair on its own but slower(i believe we had event crystals before like that and i recall a lot of complaints about them). it's awful gameplay and has barely interactivity. if you don't have slug perks you just gotta wait the 30 seconds to save as a team mate or risk a 16 second protectionless pick up and for the downed guy you just get to crawl slow or afk 30sec to make pick ups easier.
Overall i think slugging needs to changed a bit so there's more thought involved and engagement. like any protections at all make it much more healthy, be it a bar that fills up and gives you endurance when a team mate picks you up or baked in tenacity so you can at least start moving right away instead of the dumb 30second afk time that encourages a killer camping a slugged body. those would be the easiest ways to balance the mechanic more.
my favorite idea i had personally was a way a survivor could prop themselves up but being environment based. like if you get a special slug timer bar full you can fall like balanced landing distance to land on your feet in the injured or deep wound state as a reset. This would be very map dependent but actually give crawling survivors something to do on their own like a killer is giving them a side objective. it also makes the killer have to think about their slugging more like location wise and time wise like 'could a survivor crawl to a drop in the time I'm away?' and you'd know where the bodies go too as killer 'ok i slugged this survivor so its oblivious they're going to the hill that was in front to try and reset'
the special bar would definitely need to take a long time and be halted with survivors near to avoid abuse but it would be something engaging.
Overall, i just want something that mitigates the worst part of the game. I've enjoyed this game for 3k hrs mostly just solo que having fun with perk build ideas. but just coming back from a break and my literal first match back is a singularity trying to mass slug at 5 gens and succeeding with this methodical flow.. it really just makes me and others wonder why we opened the game in the first place.So again, you just want a blanket buff to survivors with nothing that addresses any of the issues around how they would be abusable.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4081917#Comment_4081917
That was why I had the idea of basekit Soul Guard endurance (not the self pick up). The idea isn't to punish killers for slugging, but to give survivors some defense against it. That way you can still slug when the situation calls for it, and the survivor would still need a teammate to pick them up.
So just more endurance then. Your proposal also isn't just a "lets fix the abusive case" you are just calling for a flat buff to survivors as a whole without actually addressing the issue directly.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4081874#Comment_4081874
I still feel like you're misunderstanding that when we talk about slugging, we're not talking about the strategic kind (where you leave the person on the ground for a moment because the teammates are swarming around you). We're talking about the abusive kind, where killers just wanna slug the survivors from the get-go without even trying to hook them, just for the sake of bleeding them out just to be sadistic. And that other mindset you mentioned, "I don't want to deal with these survivor perks, so I'll just bleed them out," is also problematic. That's the same kind of entitlement survivors have when they say, "I don't want to deal with the killer's perks, so I'll just DC."
As for your ideas, it's hard for me to critique them without seeing them in game, which probably will never happen.
Which is precisely my point, how do you punish the abusive kind without punishing the strategic kind? And the only methods anyone can ever give is like basekit unbreakable after being slugged for x amount of time. But that very thing can and will punish killers when they aren't abusively slugging and is precisely what happened on the PTB when they had it and is why we don't have it today.
I will also slightly disagree with you. The entitlement of "i don't like this killer so i'll just DC" is different then "i don't like dealing with X system, so i'll employ a strategy that counters it"
That would be like saying that its toxic for me to say "well i don't like dealing with DS, so i'm just going to not tunnel the survivor" and then be mad that i didn't tunnel you to activate your DS. I am making a decision with my actions in the game to change up my tactics based on the scenario. DCing is just straight up quitting. There is a big difference.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4081874#Comment_4081874
Why do killers deserve free remote hooking when they can't deal with a situation? Just because you downed someone doesn't mean you're entitled to a hook.
I'm not saying killers can't deal with it, i'm saying that the way killers deal with it survivors don't like, which is slugging and then results in 2-3 or even all 4 survivors getting slugged and someone complaining about slugging. So can you tell me then what you would suggest doing that would:
- Still allow killers to punish survivors when they go for the save and they spot them
- Does not allow for slugging multiple survivors
- Is not abusable by SWFs
- Still allows survivors to actually try and go for saves
Again though, i'm not saying this is necessarily the correct solution, and its simply one i thought of in a few minutes. But it would be the type of thing that they should test on various PTBs. I don't really understand why the community has this massive aversion to just trying things out on PTB, and if they don't work, no problem, just don't release them. We have plenty of examples of the devs doing this at various points in the past through things like, removing bloodlust, the anti-tunnel system, basekit unbreakable, etc. Why is there some massive issue if we test something on PTB and then it doesn't work out?
And if you want to talk "dev resources" these systems i'd propose are already in the game, we already have things that remote hook, so it shouldn't take too many resources to wire the system up as a simple test, sure it might be jank, or animations might be weird or w/e, but the point is to test how it feels, and then go from there.
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4081754#Comment_4081754
So that begs the question: do you not see that as a problem? Do you truly enjoy playing that way? If not, what do you propose the solution should be? Aside from "nerfing survivors" even more, of course.
I have never said that slugging, or for that matter tunneling or camping or anything like that is good for the game.
Slugging is tough, because survivors have many ways to save a teammate while they are being picked up and so on. So i don't think slugging by itself is necessarily a problem.
The problem is more that hooking survivors is just bad for you as a killer. You unlock tons of perks and power for them, and it takes SO long to pick up a survivor, walk to a hook, put them on a hook, where all your pressure you are building up is gone.
Tunneling and camping, i have a solution for from a game design perspective, slugging is tough without negating a ton of things. You need to allow some amount of time for slugging to deal with like 1-2 survivors hovering around for the save. While at the same time, making it not abusable to slug multiple survivors. And at the same time, you don't want to take away all the killer's pressure. In a lot of ways, if there ARE survivors hanging around for the save, and i happen to down all 2 of them, i shouldn't be punished for that as a killer. So it really is a tough call on what exactly the correct solution is. But the solution is definitely not to just slap on basekit unbreakable and call it a day.
I would have to test it out against actual good survivor teams, but perhaps some compromise in the middle where like we do to picking up, walking to a hook, and hooking survivors what we did to pallet breaks, vaulting, survivor speed boost etc. and just buff it up a bit, while adding in a way to "send" a survivor to a hook if they have been slugged a while (to punish survivor teams swarming) while adding a function of unlimited basekit unbreakable, so for example something like this:
- Decrease the time it takes to pickup a survivor from 3 seconds to 2.34 seconds (same as a pallet break)
- This time hasn't change since nearly the game's release, and was tied to the speed it took to break pallets for a while, then they made it faster to break pallets, then they made it faster again. It's probably time to decrease this timer again.
- Make the timing on blinding a little more lenient again
- With the increased pickup speed if the killer gets blinded by the survivor during the animation, the timing on blind should be made a bit nicer for survivors so they are still able to do it even if they don't have the perfect position.
- Increase killer movement speed while holding a survivor from 3.68 m/s to 4.0 m/s and then nerf agitation (so like they do with addons, make agitation partially basekit)
- This puts them at the exact same speed as a survivor, so they still won't be able to chase a survivor while holding one, but it would increase their speed a bit
- Decrease the amount of time it takes a survivor to wiggle off by 1.3 seconds
- Right now it takes a survivor about 16 seconds to wiggle off, during which a killer could move 58.88 meters, if they make it take 1.3 seconds less and the killer moves faster, it still keeps the same distance of 58.88 meters so killers can't reach any further than they can now, they can just move to that point a little bit faster.
- Decrease the hooking animation from 1.5 seconds to 1 second
- New basekit ability: When a survivor has been slugged for 30 seconds, gain the ability to "send" a survivor to a hook without picking them up. This sending logic just "sends" them to the nearest hook (or maybe furthest? depends on what feels right) without having to pick them up. This ability deactivates if a survivor is downed (basically so they can't slug one survivor, go down another, then send the first one and go hook the second)
- This makes it so if survivors are swarming around for the save, the killer can chase them off, hit them, etc, but if they keep trying to go for the save and hover around, the killer can gain the ability to hook the downed survivor without exposing themselves.
- New basekit ability: Unbreakable (with no limits) that activates when another survivor is downed. The survivor is able to pick themselves up after 10 seconds of the ability activating.
- This way, you cant' down multiple survivors without some kind of penalty in place. You'll basically have enough time to decide which survivor you want to hook, but you won't have time to do both.
I think this could be a smaller middle ground where, killers feel like they are able to pick up survivors without losing all the pressure they have built up as much from picking up faster and more movement speed, encouraging them to hook more often. When survivors come for the save, they totally can still save, but if they start swarming for like a "bully squad" type situation, the killer gets the ability to just hook that survivor without penalty, and then immediately start chasing another survivor. While at the same time, you can't go and slug entire teams.
This is also just in a vacuum, i probably wouldn't do the speedup changes if the changes i would make for tunneling and camping that i frequently talk about became a thing, but if we are tackling JUST slugging specifically.
I don't actually know if this is the right answer, or if it is too much, or too little, but it would probably be my starting point of trying to look at slugging in a way that doesn't punish killers for trying to prevent saves, while also dealing with the more egregious examples of slugging. Doing some testing on this, and then tweaking numbers so they make sense.
- Decrease the time it takes to pickup a survivor from 3 seconds to 2.34 seconds (same as a pallet break)
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@supersonic853 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4081710#Comment_4081710
I acknowledge this is probably a bug and going to be fixed but it did have the nice side effect of removing the uncounterable locker saves being back. Because people slow come out of the locker so you either grab them. (Which doesnt give you the flashlight invincibility as normal pulling them out) or you have to back up and swing and down them normally but that forces you to slug them to chase after another survivor which creates a similar problem that locker flashlight invincibility intended to solve. Could we see the flashlight invincibility extend to pulling survivors out of the exit locker or slow enter locker prompts as well? Dont have a problem with backing up and smacking them to down them as its still the better move anyway but it seems weird you can still be flashlighted out of a locker when the whole intention was to remove that. Thanks!
Ah, interesting, i always wondered why it felt like sometimes i didn't get immunity from being blinded while pulling survivors out of lockers. THAT feels like something that should be fixed.
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@Ghostofsnow said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4080983#Comment_4080983
the time to effort mainly, a killer can slug a person in 3 seconds depending on the killer/perks then it's instant value and the killer can go on and chase others, patrol gens or at the worst, patrol those while keeping tabs on the downed survivor to try easily getting a win state from that simple down. more people trying to deal with the slugging=less people on gens too so even more value for the killer effectively skipping a whole part of the game.
a hook takes much more effort to do and time, but gets a survivor killed faster using a strike system and a faster timer. but it also comes with actual protections making it MUCH more preferable over just being slugged 4 minutes straight from the survivor perspective. on top of all this a hooked survivor can be unhooked in 3 seconds and gets 15 seconds of endurance. a slugged survivor needs to be healed for 16 or left on the floor for 30 and can instantly be downed again with no protection AGAIN for an easy snowball.
All in all slugging has absolutely no built in protections at all, is tedious and slow from the survivor side and just free value for a killer and way too time efficient for themselves being able to completly skip a whole gameplay mechanic the game is attempted to be balanced around (hook states)But those aren't the complaints i normally hear. Nobody is saying they hate being slugged because its "more efficient" as the killer, and it is rare for them to bring up the protections they get from hooks as a reason.
But, you do bring up a great point about the protections. My example if it only takes 30 seconds less to die from being slugged (minus the 3 hooks things) and survivors get tons of perks and benefits from being unhooked, that stands to reason that is the REASON that killers are slugging more.
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@Ghostofsnow said:
Like, no other game I can think of has 4/5 member's that can have all agency removed on them for 4minutes straight while still technically being in play. hell, I wouldn't even care if they removed the cumulative build up. a 2-3min prerequisite unbreakable would have just been nice to deal with some of the most boring matches possible without that abandon feature.
Can i ask you a serious question?
Why do you hate slugging so much, when it is essentially the same as being hooked, if anything you have MORE agency while you are slugged than while you are hooked.
While hooked you:
- Cant do anything to meaningfully progress the game.
- Can't move.
- Must be saved by a teammate
- Will die if left alone for 210 seconds (3 minutes 30 seconds)
While slugged you:
- Cant do anything to meaningfully progress the game.
- CAN move, but very very slowly.
- Must be saved by a teammate
- Will die if left alone for 240 seconds (4 minutes)
It basically seems that, while slugged, you take 30 seconds longer to die, but you can move (even if very slow).
So functionally speaking, both of these actions remove your agency as a player to really do anything. So why is it that you hate being slugged so much more than being hooked? I don't mean this as a "gotcha" or some kind of trick, i just legitimately want to understand your perspective and emotional standpoint that makes being slugged so much worse for you than being hooked.
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@Drunkenmunky said:
Make unbreaka-bill base kit.
SoloQ is already miserable.
Not having a chance at all is boring.
1v4 doesn't feel like it's worth playing at all.
Killers should try to just get better instead of exploiting mechanics.
I never complain when I get rolled as a killer. It makes me a better killer.
It's just a waste of time if survivors can't get to 2 gen.
At this point I'd rather play 4v16 than 1v4.
It's boring to not have the ability to complete actions to earn bp.
Ya can't just keep killers happy if no one wants to play survivor as you need 4x the survivors for one round.
People who complain about killer ques need to realize it's because survivor is so miserable.
(end rant)Have you thought about maybe considering the reason that killers are slugging rather than just immediately going to "we need to get basekit mechanics to counter it"?
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@MechWarrior3 said:
I have a nerdy question. How does the Spawn Logic work for Pyramid Heads Cages? Is it like Pinhead's Box?
I believe each map has 4 potential spawns for cages, and it just picks the furthest spawn location from you when you cage them.
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@weskersplaything said:
How much would u bet on it?
The Entity:
@Reinami said:
With all the teasers and stuff coming out, i want to throw in my theory so its documented somewhere and i can say "see i told you" if i turn out to be right.
The first set of teasers made it so the next killer "DEFINITELY" is Jason
The second teaser made it so the next killer "DEFINITELY" is Pennywise.
I suspect that the next teaser to be released with "DEFINITELY" show that the next killer will be Predator or Slenderman. And the one after that will be the other, and so on.
Ultimately for the big reveal to be, that the next killer will be the Entity. The entity will be a playable killer. In terms of power or whatnot, i have no idea. But my theory is that these teasers are all showing the "power" (not in-game but lore) of the entity to be able to bring in anything it wants, ultimately for the final reveal for it to be that the Entity itself wants in on the action.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4080407#Comment_4080407
Ah yes, the three god pallets that you can easily chain on every map. We all know those. They definitely exist. You're ignoring reality in favor of a math equation that assumes everyone moves in a straight, mechanical line, and the killer somehow has nothing to help them, while also breaking every (somehow unavoidable) pallet. Most pallets aren't god pallets—most pallets are bad. If someone predrops it and keeps going you just walk around it.You're also ignoring the fact that most killers have some way to hinder your journey on this straight line of perfectly spaced and stellar pallets. Killers have either mobility/catchup/dash (Ghoul, Nurse, Chucky, Spirit), a ranged attack (Deathslinger, Huntress, Plague, Unknown), an antiloop ability (Clown, Doctor, Dredge, Pinhead), or a pallet chewing ability (Oni, Bubba, Micheal, Nemesis), if not a combo of those things (Henry, Billy, Oni, Blight, Singularity, Vecna, Dracula). Plus there's instadowns on many of them. Oh yeah, and popular anti-pallet addons (Legion, Wraith, Wesker). That's not even bringing up perks. And once those pallets are gone, they're gone. You're also ignoring the reality of the maps themselves, like Ormond and Yamaoka, with areas of a bunch of useless rocks and nothing else at all. 70s for a down and all you broke was 3 pallets? If that happens you're bad, terribly outclassed, or you screwed up. You can pretend all this isn't the case, but I know very well that you know what reality looks like in this game.
The problem here is that this type of thing LEADS to killers adapting and using strategies that survivors find unfun.
The pallets were likely put in to help with tunneling, so survivors have resources to slow down the targeted attack. Half the perks killers are complaining about—like Babysitter, DS, and OtR—are anti tunnel perks that have zero effect on you if you aren't looking to double hook. If perks and pallets simply existing has lead to slugging, then slugging needs to be adjusted, not perks and pallets. You shouldn't be able to say you just don't like the proper gameplay and you won't participate in it until you get your way. That shouldn't even be possible.
In high mmr survivors often use these anti-tunnel perks offensively to force the killer into lose-lose situations. Its a very delicate balance and there's a reason that slugging is back on the table right now.
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@TinfoilHat said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4080407#Comment_4080407
As a killer main, this is amazingly true now the math is mathing. I can chase and they just run from pallet to pallet if I choose to drop chase then time is wasted esp if they pre-run you and do the same thing to you. Its a damned if you do, damned if you dont situation which is a weird way to feel as a "power role" and even more strange to make someone feel when its already 4v1 perks not even included
That's also not to say its impossible to deal with. Its personally why typically my strategy is to immediately drop chase after breaking pallet and going somewhere else. And i tend to play either highly mobile killers like blight/ghoul etc, that can get around quickly, or ones with great macro like sadako, knight etc.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4080246#Comment_4080246
I mean, if that happens, they'll be out of resources very quickly and have massive dead zones. Using Windows to braindead run from pallet to pallet and drop them without any looping is very bad playing. Killers get stronger as the game goes on and the resources dwindle.
This is not really true the way you think it is. Yes nurse blight spirit ghoul etc don't care. But we are talking about MOST of the killer cast not the top ones which are a different issue. So keep that in mind as you read this.
All it takes is 2-3 pre-dropped god pallets, and 3 gens are going to get done, let's imagine say, a legion, who effectively has no power after the first hit.
Breaking a pallet takes 2.34 seconds. A pallet covers about 5 meters from 1 side to the other (a little under a lunge which is about 6 meters). A killer breaking a pallet, if the survivor shift+w away, the survivor will gain 9.36 meters of distance for a total of 14.36 meters of distance. In order to hit that survivor, the killer needs to lunge at them, a lunge makes the killer move at 6.9 m/s for 0.9 seconds. the last 0.3 seconds of which they can hit, and then for a few frames after they are able to land a hit. The distance of a swing for killer is about 1 meter. Which means that the killer needs to be 1 meter away for the final hit. Because survivors move at 4 m/s, when factoring the lunge and the distance, this means that to hit a running survivor with the very tip of your lunge, you need to be 3.61 meters away from the survivor. (During that lunge the killer moves 6.21 meters and their hit extends out for 1 meter for a total of 7.21 meters, but during the 0.9 seconds the killer is lunging, the survivor is able to move 3.6 meters. Thus, 7.21 - 3.6 = 3.61 meters).
So in summary:
- Dropping a pallet and the killer breaking it puts the killer at 14.36 meters away from the survivor
- They need to close the gap to 3.61 meters of distance in order to hit the survivor at the tip of their lunge.
- This means the killer needs to close the gap by 14.36 - 3.61 = 10.75 meters.
How long does it take the killer to catch up to the survivor at 10.75 meters? Well the killer moves at 4.6 and the survivor at 4. So every second, the killer gains 0.6 meters of distance. So simply 10.75/0.6 = 17.916 seconds. To account for lag, and human reaction and to make math a little easiy, i think we can safely round this up to 18 seconds. And that is in the best case scenario.
So, in our scenario, lets say the survivor just shift+ws to a pallet and predrops it. No mindgaming, no looping, no nothing, just pure shift+w and predrop. Every predrop extends the chase by 18 seconds.
This doesn't factor in the time it took to start that chase. Land the first hit, find the survivor, any of those things. But, lets say the survivor predrops 3 pallets (keep in mind these days maps have around 20 pallets at this point), then they just shift+w to a corner of the map. This means, no looping, no mindgaming, no nothing, just pure, predrop a pallet and shift+w away as the killer breaks it.
In that scenario it will take the killer 3*18 = 54 seconds to down the survivor. Then they have to, wipe their blade, pick up the survivor, sit through the pickup animation, find a hook, walk to the hook, put the survivor on the hook, wait for the hooking animation, THEN they can start the next chase.
How long does that all take you think?
54 seconds + 2.7 seconds + 3 seconds + 8 seconds + 1.5 seconds = 69.2 seconds.
Again this factors in nothing else. This is assuming the killer starts their chase at 14ish meters away from the survivor, the survivor doesn't try to mindgame, they don't try to do anything, they just predrop a few pallets. And its a legion. So the survivor is assumed injured, but the killer has no power to speak of to deal with this in any meaningful way.
So by the time you do that, the other 3 survivors are 20 seconds away from finishing 3 gens? Now how many resources did that survivor "waste" oh 3 pallets? Well how many are left? 20? Oh so they still have 85% of the map to work with.
All of this to reason is WHY killers are relying more on tactics rather than pure "mechanical skill" to win games. And those "tactics" are the very things you don't like. Tunneling at the right time, slugging at the right time, hit and run tactics, playing a more macro game instead of a micro one etc. And these are the types of things that survivors complain about the most, even more so than blight or ghoul. Look at how many people complain about say, the knight, or skull merchant before they intentionally made her bad, or sadako who goes for condemn instead of hooks. I personally like to play a more macro style, and most matches i get tons of anger and vitriol thrown at me more so than if i play nurse and just end chases in 10 seconds.
So, this isn't really a complaint as it were about the situation, more of just an analysis. The problem here is that this type of thing LEADS to killers adapting and using strategies that survivors find unfun. The only fix to which is really fundamentally changing the core game to make chases and hooks more important than kills while making tunneling/slugging/camping etc not only not good, but just not possible to do. But this is too much of a task for the devs i think, which is why nothing will change.
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@ArcT said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4080209#Comment_4080209
Meta comes from the word meta, not an acronym. It's a Greek prefix, and literally means 'after' or 'beyond.' Metaphysical is beyond physical. Metacognition is thinking about thinking. Metagame is outside of the game. ie Analysis of strategies outside of the self-enclosed gamestate, and has been in use in that way for almost a century.
Fair enough looks like it was a backronym. But the point still stands.
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@wesker_shades said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4079934#Comment_4079934
Really now?
It's not impossible to do well as M1 killers if you just put your mind to it.
You just need to think outside the box, and not run the universal meta all the time.meta is called that because it is an acronym which stands for "most effective tactic available" that is precisely why it is "meta" because it is in fact the best thing you could be doing.
But i would like to know, what do you do on these m1 killers, can you post some videos? You can use OBS to record a video of a match totally free and then upload it to youtube totally free as well. Would love to learn what you are doing differently than everyone else, we could all learn something.
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@TropesDaMan said:
what killer needs a rework the most if any even do? my friend personally says Legion
In terms of killers needing complete reworks its probably Skull merchant.
There are several killers that need a lot of love, not necessarily a total rework, but definitely a giant pass to make them more interesting and that list is very large, but the big one there i would say would be Hag. If anything i think just make her 115 and make it so her traps don't work and have penalties around hooks like other killers have for their powers (like xenomorph coming out of the thing way slower for example). And then giving her a solid addon pass and numbers tweaks.
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@drag27 said:
Skull Merchant. she's needed one ever since BHVR took her to the back of the woods like lassie. SM released was balanced, 2.0 was her best version but not OP, and her last nerf destroyed her
When they gutted her she was already not very good, people just hated her because they had PTSD over the 3 gen meta with her. I really don't understand why they did that. And i am committed to not spending money on this game until they fix that.
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@Abbzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4080056#Comment_4080056
Deffinitely she was created for one purpose and that was to counter infinite loops but this is gone nowdays.
Not entirely, shift tech still exists and can create infinites against many different killers (only the low tier ones of course, nurse/blight/spirit/ghoul never care about these things)
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@Wezqu said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4079822#Comment_4079822
Yeah the customer service of this game company are real people. You can see it in the later responses that they make after you have basically already fixed the problem you had. Before that it usually is more monotonic macros.
Its a matter of statistics. If 80% of the issues are solved with a macro, you start with the macro, 20% of the time its going to be wrong or still need additional followup.
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@Chilaubis said:
May I ask everyone how I can apply for a human customer service representative? I keep receiving automatic replies when I send emails to customer service.
Contrary to popular belief, these are real people who are messaging you. What they use is something called a "macro" where they have basically a prewritten response that they reply to stuff with.
This is done for a bunch of reasons, often to save time. If the response to say, someone asking for a refund is always the exact same response, why bother writing that out every single time? Especially since they often have to follow a specific policy, which typing it manually gives more opportunities for a human to make a mistake.
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@shitney said:
You forget that the majority of the chase encounters for survivors end up being a 2v1. Therefore the sprint burst prompt is 100% warranted.
if every chase was a 2v1, you would be leaving 7 survivors to do whatever they want and would lose the same in probably 3 minutes.
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@Nicholas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4079137#Comment_4079137
I understood your point, but you confused yourself in attempting to make it. I said one side, I didn't say action. The point prevails, DbD unlike shooters, only favors one side.
Its fine, you agree with me, don't want to admit it, and somehow say you disagree with me. I understand, the internet has to be a giant chamber of disagreement. No worries bro, have a good day!
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@Nicholas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4078938#Comment_4078938
No, it's entirely true in this context. Most shooters are "Favor The Shooter," but it's not too bad, since everyone is the shooter at some point. The issue with DbD is that its network philosophy perpetually and exclusively favors one side over the other.
So, i explain to you why its not true, you tell me i'm wrong, then proceed to explain why you agree with me.
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@100PercentBPMain said:
escapist makes this killer completely pointless. Nemesis is kinda pointless too, but his 4 zombies act as slowdown that Escapists can't just ignore and pre run from.
there's a reason I crash out and ask for Ghoul in 2v8 this class is single handedly warping the entire game mode.
Honestly this a lot, i think the mode balance would go a long way if escapist wasn't just a free sprint burst every 20 seconds. With the way the gens are balanced, if you chase the person that sprint bursted away, you just lose.
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@Nicholas said:
DbD is the only game I know that rewards (favors) one side (The Killer) for lagging. The name of this system is Favor The Killer. Hits should be moved entirely from The Killer's end to the Server. SSHV only"validates" hits after a certain ping threshold, which is extremely generous and, well, using the devs' own term: Favors The Killer. It's a terrible system.
Its entirely untrue that it is the only game that favors "1 side" have you ever heard about "peakers advantage" in CS:GO? or basically any fps?
The reason why it feels so bad in DBD is because only 1 side can actually be the aggressor.
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@GeneralV said:
Greetings, friends of the Fog! I hope this discussion finds you doing well.
So, if you are familiar with my posts, you know that Freddy Krueger is a character that means a lot to me. If you aren't, however, allow me to quickly give you some context: Freddy Krueger has been my main killer in DBD from the day I started playing the game, which was all the way back in December of 2018. Most of my posts have been about Freddy and, if I may be so bold to say what I'm about to say, there is an association between my name and the character.
Now, as a strong defender of the original power design for Freddy, prior to his first rework in patch 3.1.0, I was definitely not happy with the direction his second and most recent rework, which happened in January of last year, took the character. To me, his newly reworked power didn't even come close to fixing the main issue with his kit: how boring and uninspired he feels.
Because of that I stopped playing him for a while, switching to Skull Merchant who had already caught my attention by then. However, once a Freddy main, always a Freddy main. At least in my case.
And after getting back to this killer that I care so much about, I've found that my opinion… actually stays the same.
But I've noticed that Freddy isn't really a hot topic these days, and I would like to get a general idea of what everyone is feeling about this killer as he currently is.
So that is why I ask: what do you think of current Freddy Krueger?
Remember, every opinion is welcome here!
I miss old freddy, i'm assuming you know the one. Where he pulled you into the dream world before he could hit y ou.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4077899#Comment_4077899
Well, friend, you brought up the question of "Did you play DBD like 6 years ago?". But that is your answer about basekit BT. It isn't an "anti" anything mechanic, it is something that has to exist.
Because, as you will certainly recall, every single survivor had to have BT because saving someone without it was straight up a death sentence for the person who just got unhooked. Basekit BT isn't a reward for doing poorly, survivors will most likely go down at some point (especially with the wave of anti-loop killers that we have), it is a way of stopping the killer from instantly hitting you as soon as you leave that hook.
Back then we didn't unhook when the killer was near, and if the killer WAS near you did gens instead. To be fair gens were slightly shorter then, 80 seconds as opposed to 90. But the hook timer was also 60 seconds and not 70, so i feel it does balance out. In general i have seen the quality of survivor play continue to go down as more and more hand-holdy basekit mechanics are added for survivors.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4077917#Comment_4077917
Do you really expect survivors to never get hooked all match?
No, i never said that. Would you expect killers to go the entire match without a gen being done? Their objective is to kill the survivors, not stop the gens from being done, but by definition would you not argue that if the gens are getting done the match i slowly turning towrads the killer more likely losing the match?
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@CrypticGirl said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4077925#Comment_4077925
Yeah, about 3/4ths of the Killer roster can delete that free distance in an instant.
And somehow they can all hit you through the basekit BT? You can't be hit during it, and if you are, then you get a speed boost that is going to give you about as much the same distance. The 66 meters is free because if they hit you, you get a speed boost. Any of those killers with the exception maybe of nurse there isn't going to immediately catch up to you post sprint burst.
But nurse should not really be considered in conversations of balance like this, because nurse does not play dead by daylight. She plays the nurse game, and its an entirely different beast and not really relevant to this discussion.
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@MashedBroccoli said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4077918#Comment_4077918
hyper efficient swf teams are rare, i get one maybe every 20 killer matches. 4 man slugs are not rare anymore especially thanks to recent events. Try not being a main for a change maybe then the game can get balanced.
Maybe not to you, i get them quite frequently, almost every other match. But people don't believe me, so i'll choose to do the same.
Did you not see me post my stats? I play both sides quite equally. But please, continue to assume.
Do i need to ONCE AGAIN point out that i think these things you are complaining about are bad for the game? I just disagree with the typical solutions to them. "Anti-whatever" mechanic is not the answer.
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@CTL said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4077913#Comment_4077913
Your longest chase time is 37 seconds, only just over half of the endurance.
Look at chase times as a stat doesn't work because dropping chase "ends" the chase, and in high level play (maybe you don't know this) shift-tech is the best way to usually go about things as a survivor because you can keep vaulting a window more than 3 times. And shift-teching intentionally avoids chases.
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@MashedBroccoli said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4077914#Comment_4077914
not anymore, 3 of my 7 survivor games i played waiting for my killer matches were 4 man slugs.
I'm going to respond to that the same way i get responded to when i talk about hyper efficient SWF teams being a problem and get told they are rare but then saying "not to me":
"Press X To doubt"