Reinami
Reinami
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- Reinami
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@supersonic853 said:
Been running into this combo a lot more recently. Just had a few games with all 4 survivors running it. Is it that good? Idk if this is a content creator thing or what. But it seems to work if I'm not a killer with a instant catch up tool. Might give it a shot on my survivor games.
Dramaturgy is old dead hard for distance and i have been saying that from the beginning, the difference is it works backwards, whereas dead hard only was usable while injured, Dramaturgy requires you to be healthy.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
It was obviously not needed to nerf the Perk to 4 seconds. It could have been at 5 seconds and would have been way worse than pre-0.6.1 anyway. 5 seconds nowadays are not the same as 5 seconds when Maps were much stronger for Survivors and Killers were weaker overall.
Especially if we consider that the Perk is a joke for most Killers. Back in the day it was only a Joke to the strongest Killers, nowadays a Killer should not care about DS and just tunnel through it.
(But to be fair, it was never planned to bring the Perk back to 5 seconds. It was 5 seconds for a short time, but with a much longer animation…)
People keep forgetting though that the perk was only ever originally made 5 seconds because it was affected by enduring, which made it worthless because the killer would stop being stunned so fast it might as well not have done anything. Then at some point it was made 5 seconds with the intent (as stated by the devs) that it would be reverted back when enduring was changed to only work on pallets.
Then the enduring change was made, and it was never made 3 seconds again. Then after multiple reworks, they made it 3 seconds again, and people thought 3 seconds was too little (partially true because it was bugged for half those patches where it didn't actually stun the full 3 seconds). And then they moved it back to 5 seconds, where again, it was just too strong against certain killers.
So moving it back to 4 seconds is solid.
You have to remember that not every killer is nurse or blight. A 5 second DS, gives a survivor about 16 meters of distance, half a terror radius. By the time the killer can catch up, a 5 second stun means that, unless you get stunned on one corner of the map, and want to move to the opposite corner, you can pretty much head to any part of the map you want.
At 4 seconds, it makes it about 12 meters, which means that the killer is still in a threatening range, meaning that you don't always have time to go immediately run to shack.
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@dbd900bach said:
So Dead by Daylight has dabbled a little in having crossovers with popular anime. This of course came in the form of Attack on Titan with several skins for killer and survivor, and the recent Junji Ito horror Manga collab.
With the additions mainly being skins, there is no bad collaboration so long as the skins remain tied to horror anime/manga, yet I can still see arguments made for shows like Bleach or Jujistu Kaisen with their creepy designs.
The main question revolves around if an anime collaboration should lead to a full chapter. The obvious answer is it depends on the anime but it can go a bit deeper than that. Anime is its own culture and style. While it has become much more mainstream and accepted, there is still a stigma given the cultural differences between east and west with the obvious worry of Behavior choosing an anime ill suited to the horror that is Dead by Daylight.
Trickster is a good example. While he was well accepted by Korean players, other players questioned how he fitted in the game with his bright aesthetic. A killer popstar doesn't scream horror, but to others it is an extreme rarity in their culture that captured their attention.
I'm hopeful to hear everyone's takes.
There's tons of good horror anime that would fit not only as skins but full on chapters. I would love for there to be a chapter or at least a skin line on Higurashi (a legion skin and a survivor or 2 would work pretty well), but i do know that for the non-initiated it would just be like "why are they putting cute school girls in this horror game" But in terms of atmosphere, brutality, horror, and violence, i think it would fit right in.
Outside of something like that, you could probably do things like Demon Slayer with tons of demons and characters to choose from, Elfen Lied with a potential for a really cool killer with the arms, or Hellsing has tons of bad guys (although all the good ones are literal Nazi's so it might be a bit harder to adapt), or the Butler with his strings, or even just Alucard (which might be a little weird with the other Alucard being in the game), or maybe even Death Note somehow that might be interesting.
But definitely just look up some of the "death scenes" in Higurashi and tell me that wouldn't fit in with DBD just because the characters "look cute"
Or that Lucy from Elfen Lied going on a killing spree and ripping peoples arms off and then beating them to death with the arms doesn't fit.
Or any of the demons from Demon Slayer that mercilessly kill tons of people.
All of these thing would fit quite well in the game, especially in a world where trickster, and Junji Ito skins and such exist.
I think when people say "anime" they think of things like, Pokemon, or Naruto, or things like that, that, yes, would not fit very well into DBD. But i think there are tons of horror anime that exist that would fit quite well, for fans and non fans alike.
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@Interrupt_Vector said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3872163#Comment_3872163
I explained it in plain text brother. You need me to spell it out or something?
Well, at least i tried.
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@Interrupt_Vector said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3872158#Comment_3872158
"Genrushing" is a specific strategy. Simply doing your objective can hardly be called "rushing".
Please explain what is wrong with the statement other than trying to drum up more "us vs them" type stuff on an alt account with 18 posts. Otherwise i see no point in engaging with someone on something like this.
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@Interrupt_Vector said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3872142#Comment_3872142
How is it genrushing when the perks are literally random.
Do you guys ever think before you post? It's like complaining that CT rush to defuse the bomb in CS.
I feel like you are thinking i mean it in some "insulting" sense. I'm stating that simply:
- gens fly because there are no gen defense perks
- survivors get tunneled because there are no anti-tunnel perks
- The game is balanced around both of these types of perks being in play, and simply highlights the issues of balance.
What exactly is the problem with that statement?
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@Aven_Fallen said:
Am I missing something or is Chaos Shuffle exactly the same like the two previous iterations?
I really hoped that at some point Map Offerings and Items/Add Ons are disabled. The first version was really fun, the second version a lot less since people started to sweat by bringing the best Items, best Add Ons and Map Offerings.
And I fear the same will happen again. In general, I dont really understand why no changes have been made - for 2v8 there were changes and the last time there were no Changes to Chaos Shuffle because the Devs wanted to bring the mode back as soon as possible, yet months later it is again the same?
(This under the assumption that I did not miss anything, I did not play in the mode yet)The mode itself is a mess.
Survivors just rush gens because there's no gen defense
Killers just tunnel because there's no tunnel defense.
It highlights the problems with the game in that it is balanced around killers bringing gen defense perks, and survivors bringing anti-tunnel perks.
The mode MIGHT be able to be salvaged if they created some semblance of synergy between the perks, like, ensure killers get 1 gen defense perk and survivors get 1 anti-tunnel perk. Then have 3 random perks assigned based on a "strategy" or build that sort of synergize together. So maybe one game you play as survivor you get like a healing build where you spend time healing your team, or another you might get a chase build where you want to spend time being chased by the killer. Or as killer you might get a heavy hex build where you spend time defending hexes, or maybe you get a bunch of undetectable stuff, so you try to play sneaky-like.
Something a bit more than just "pure random"
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@jmwjmw27 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3871617#Comment_3871617
Notable difference you are not mentioning that accounts for most complaints:
when everyone is hooked, then you take your attempts, and it doesn’t force you to wait the phase 2, you can move on instantly.
Not to mention, you usually are not hanging from first hook to death unless you are playing comp. People complain about that too, because sitting there for so long doing nothing is boring.
If you get slugged and the killer wants to be a jerk you are waiting at least 4 minutes. And if you alt tab or go do something some nasty people will pick you up and leave you on the shoulder until you start to wiggle, then mori/hook.
That's the point right there "you take your attempts"
The thing i'm getting at, is that the only reason people don't like being slugged, is because they can't "go next" and "go next" is an epidemic all its own that needs to be dealt with.
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@sizzlingmario4 said:
It's difficult to address because there's no one-size-fits-all answer to it. Sometimes slugging is obnoxious and/or unnecessary, and sometimes it's the only correct decision and anything else would be game-losing and/or giving a free save. It really just depends.
That said, reworking Knock Out would help a lot, that perk is a major part of the issue and should not remain the way it is
Reworking knockout won't change the playstyle, people will just move on to other perks that give blindness and are actually better than knockout. The strategy and build is now evolving beyond knockout.
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@KA149108 said:
Slugging is the most boring and pointless way to play, the killer is stagnating the game. Just hook people and get BPS, I'd rather just get hooked and go next then slugging at 5 gens with killer that wants to waste everyone's time.
Genuine question here
Outside of losing the ability to "go next" which i believe is a problem in itself, what makes being slugged more boring to you then being on a hook?
While on a hook:
- You can't do anything
- You rely on a teammate to come save you
- Killers can tunnel you off the hook
- Killers can proxy camp you
- You take 210 seconds to completely die and move on to the next game if your teammates don't save you
While slugged:
- You actually CAN move around, albeit very slowly
- You rely on a teammate to come save you.
- The killer can tunnel you off of being picked up
- Killers can camp you
- You take 240 seconds to completely die and move on to the next game if your teammates don't save you.
The main differences i see here are.
- While on a hook, you can do nothing, but while slugged, you can still move around
- It takes 30 seconds longer to die on the ground than on the hook.
- Camping a slug is a bit stronger than camping a hook because you can't facecamp a hook, but you can "facecamp" a slug.
- Camping slugs is rare though, usually its done when the timer is already near the end and you want to let them finish dying, the entire point of slugging is to save the time you would spend hooking to go chase another survivor, so camping the slug is a bit counterproductive there. If you are gonna camp the slug, you may as well hook then camp the hook.
So, OTHER THAN THE FACT THAT YOU CAN'T "GO NEXT" (which should be bannable IMO, but again, a different discussion entirely). What is so horrible about being slugged? You trade 30 seconds extra of bleedout for being able to move around, which is something i would take any day.
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@isthatmar said:
i've only encountered this three times and yet it actually irks me thinking about it. it's pointless yet effective against survivors and as a Killer main, i can't stand seeing people use these perks and slug people. like honestly this will be the first (and hopefully last) time i'll get disorderly on here. but actually, you disgusssssst me. stop it bro. and i bet you're pairing it up with face the darkness. actually stop playing this game. seriously. and i know someone is probably gonna say 'skill issue' or something. actually play a game with a Killer running face the darkness, the third seal, gearhead, and knock out. makes me wanna uninstall this game.
So, 2 of those are hexes, gearhead isn't really that great, and knockout has counters.
Secondly. With this build, the killer has no chase perks, and no gen defense perks, so those gens should be FLYING by. If you don't finish 3 gens in the first chase against this build then that is really on you.
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3870584#Comment_3870584
That's actually a pretty cool/interesting idea... 😅
I like that idea a lot… are you suggesting this instead of the global condemn or in addendum to global condemn? Cause this sounds like it might be a little oppressive with global condemn, sort of a damned if you do, damned if you don't kinda deal...
But would be nice with OG Sadako I feel in conjunction with the TV timer switch around changes and the condemn lock in changes.
I would say like, current sadako, but with this feature. Current sadako is fine if survivors don't HOLD tapes (obviously they need to collect them) but if you have 4 survivors who all immediately grab a tape there's not much you can do, a bunch of your tvs are off, you can't teleport around and you can't add condemn. From there maybe they could look at reducing the time tvs stay off, but basically yeah.
You can't hold a tape forever to prevent getting condemn unless you are actively running, which means you are getting chased, and that's fine. The problem is a survivor grabbing a tape, which turns off a tv, and makes them immune to condemn and then just doing a gen.
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@UndeddJester said:
Nerfed? She's a noob stomper, but so are all macro killers... she's struggling quite a bit, and doesn't need nerfing more.
A lot of people want the original version of sadako, but I'm less inclined to believe that will ever happen after the Freddy rework (and I like the Freddy rework, but still).
I also rather like a number of aspects of modern Sadako (however there are still issues)... So sticking with modern Sadako, I still maintain her 3.0 version should: -
- Give 0.5 stacks globally for survivors within range of a powered TV when Sadako teleports.
- Give 0.5-0.75 additional stacks for survivors within range of the TV Sadako teleports to.
- Picking up a tape passively builds condemn at a rate of 1 stack every ~45 seconds or so.
- Half the condemn on different elevations to address the issues on Midwich and the Game.
- Proper add-on pass...
This would make mindlessly spamming TP about half as effective, and not really worth the shut off of TVs. It rewards Sadako for making good reads and using her TPs optimally. It also means that at higher levels, shutting down her TVs immediately to deny her TPs comes with a condemn penalty that Sadako can capitalise on if the survivors ignore it too long, especially with the lock in mechanic, giving her an actual functional slowdown.
Really they just need to punish HOLDING the tape for long periods of time. There is no downside to holding it. I think something like, she needs 7 stacks of condemned to kill right? But we don't want to punish picking up a tape and running to a tv to put it in or being chased. So make it work like deep wounds.
If the survivor is running with the tape, nothing bad happens, but if they don't run, they gain 1 stack every 15 seconds. That way survivors can still grab a tape, hold it, and do half a gen before they get into the danger territory, but they can't just grab a tape and hold it forever. But if the killer is chasing someone with a tape, or the survivor is running to a TV, then they aren't punished for being chased by the killer, or for trying to do the tape.
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@WholesomeNebula said:
I get that she is weak, and she was buffed for good reason. And a lot of the time, she's okay to play against. But there is zero penalty for her to just spam teleport to mori survivors early. Its like Tombstone Michael, but far worse, because at least Michael has to do a boat load of stalking to unlock his power. I just had yet another Onryu match where the killer with a Midwich offering just spammed TP until she got a mori at 4 gens. I was playing solo, and post match the other random survivors thought maybe hacking, but I'm not sure.
Condemn should work the way Michael's Tombstone does. It shouldn't be possible to just delete survivors early in match.You are gonna have to explain this one:
" How has she not been nerfed " and "I get that she is weak" do not make sense, either she is weak, or she needs to be nerfed, you don't get to have it both ways.
Also.
Literally, just pick up a tape, as soon as they become available. There is no penalty to holding a tape anymore.
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@alpha5 said:
If lockers were that abundant Dredge would be pretty close to being a god.
The problem there is that lockers typically (map dependent) aren't near gens unless it is like, killer shack. And if you are getting chased, ideally, you want to run away from gens, you have a little time before your down to plan being near a locker.
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@vol4r said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3868659#Comment_3868659
dbd is not fighting game
the only fighting i've done is hitting wesker's face while he moris me, but I would not count that
But you are saying that "50/50s don't show skill" i'm pointing out that there is an entire genre built around the idea of 50/50s and his highly skillful.
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@exDbd said:
let’s talk about aura reading. Since the distortion nerf I’ve seen killers running whole builds of nothing but aura. While it could help them, there is little to nothing survivors can do since the distortion nerf. Bbq and chili, lethal pursuer, friends til the end, darkness revealed and even killer add ons that give them aura reading. Seriously aura is ruining the game. I miss old DBD when there were little to no aura reading. I already know I’m going to get comments like well at least they aren’t using gen perks. That’s besides the point. Having my location revealed every game has been such a hassle for me. I’m solo queue by the way. I don’t even know why I play anymore as killers have been getting nothing but hand outs. We used to use distortion to protect us from this but no the ones who run it just to hide all game got it nerfed for all of us. I don’t think it’s fair for us survivors. I wish DBD would work on helping solo queue out as it’s so unplayable recently. Please I’m begging…..
If a killer is running all aura reading perks, then they have no gen defense perks. Even if you are bad at looping, if you just hold shift + and run to a corner of the map, it will still take the killer a solid 45-50 seconds to down you and hook you. So without gen defense perks, the gens should be able to fly really fast.
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@Akumakaji said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869699#Comment_3869699
"Back in the days…"
… survivors played more casually and did totems and chests on the side.
… survivors felt safe enough with multiple layers of safety nets to fool around.
… survivors in general didn't hardcore split up and prioritized gens before everything else.
… one gen would pop per chase, till the gaming area shrunk down to size with two gens remaining.
… killers could stake out three close gens in the start and soft-patrol them.
The game has changed alot and both roles have pressured into more "perfect" and "efficient" playstyles, by the ongoing arms race, leaving very little room for error or playfulness on the side. A modern killer just hasn't the luxury of searching for a survivor behind every bush, in some games they will fail the game if they don#t find the next survivor and start a chase within 20s.
The meta of the game is ever changing and evolving and stealth now plays very much second fidel to everything else. I enjoyed the more relaxed playstyle of 3 years ago, but its gone now, and we must evaluate perks in their natural environment now, not in some artificial situation.
That is a result of MMR pushing games to be sweatier and sweatier.
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@Iron_Cutlass said:
Part of this is just a mini-rant that is not aimed at a particular person but moreso how discussions end up devolving on the DBD Forums that makes it incredibly frustrating to discuss anything.
Let's create a hypothetical scenario that breaks down exactly what I have an issue with…
- 1.) Person A has an issue with an ingame mechanic or perk. This issue has persisted for a long time and has created impacted the game in a negative way.
This is fine. Person A is just giving their opinion on a subject that should be addressed.
- 2.) Person B sees that Person A is struggling with something. Rather than proposing a way of handling the issue or fixing the issue, Person B stats how their side has an issue as well that should be addressed.
This is mostly fine.
Multiple things that are similar can be handled in the same thread, but it is important to note that there are times and places for posting stuff like this, so it isnt always the best idea to do this.
- 3.) Person B proposes that Person A's issue cannot be fixed until Person B's issue is fixed, or vice versa.
- 3.) Person B proposes the idea that Person A's issue must persist because it wouldnt be fair for Person B to still suffer from their issue, or vice versa.
This is unproductive discussion that gets us nowhere. No one's issues are solved, and solely exists out of spite.
Both things can be an issue, and both things can be addressed, the order at which they are addressed does not matter since both are issues.
- 4.) Person B proposes that Person A's issue is "balanced" out by Person B's issue, or vice versa.
This only serves to defend both problematic things being in the game instead of finding ways to tackle the issue.
These are the DBD discussions that I really, really hate.
They basically devolved into a Side VS Side, Us VS Them discussion over multiple things that can co-exist as issues, and it often feels like I am talking to a brick wall with how unproductive the discussion is.
I'll actually disagree with your premise that the first situation is "fine" it is literally a whataboutism and a logically fallacy. So when people do that, i just typically don't engage in the conversation, because there isn't a point. I'm sure i'm guilty of it as well from time to time as it is hard to avoid, but its generally not an acceptable form of debate.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3870029#Comment_3870029
People stick with losing matches in MOBAs, where the ability to forfeit generally isn't available until 15-20 minutes in, and games average from 30-60 minutes. In an elimination game like DBD where matches average less than 10 minutes, I will never understand this argument.
And no, MOBAs are not inherently more balanced than DBD. They have characters that have a wide variety of effectiveness, bad matchups and team comps, and characters that are aptly called "hypercarries" since they can have considerably more impact on the outcome of a match than both their allies and their enemies. And yet people, in an elimination based game where you losing generally means getting out of the game even faster, say they don't have time to play out their matches. Nobody is saying that any player's time doesn't matter, but I feel like some people really don't understand how far to the extreme they take it. If you can't stick through your matches and stuff like waiting for server shutdown isn't in play, you might honestly waste more time in queues than actual matches. DBD is a relatively low time commitment multiplayer game, even if its not as quick as stuff like fighting games or most fps (especially when drop in/out is present.)
I play DotA 2 as well, and its even worse there. I have legitimately had a game last 2 hours before, and there is NO surrender option in DotA and griefing and throwing games is MASSIVELY punished. And you get 1 free leave a WEEK (not a day) before you get put into low priority queue which you DO NOT want to be in, as you then get half hour long queues on purpose, must WIN a game, and if your opponents or teammates quit, the game doesn't count, and its filled with the most toxic players, and all the people who leave games, making that one win actually take 10+ games. And then the next time you get it, it becomes 2 games, and it just exponentially increases from there.
I never understand it was well, someone can't stick out a 10 minute match of DBD they don't like, but DotA players can play for 2 hours or get punished for it? Such entitlement if you ask me.
And the answer i always get is something about "asym games different" but they can never explain how DBD being asymmetrical suddenly makes it so its a horrible experience to sit 10 minutes in a match you don't like, vs over an hour where you have to hide in your base and die constantly because your team fed the enemy carry in the first 10 minutes of the match.
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@Roco45 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869963#Comment_3869963
Hey bud, almost every match someone already is going "next", it's not one in every ten games, it's literally every or every other match lol
Also it's funny when people bring up Killer stats, yet BHVR doesn't factor in DCing and in most of my SoloQ matches someone DC's so most of my SoloQ matches aren't getting added into any statistics you love to quote about Kill rates. Like maybe Nurse/Billy/Blight killrates are so underrepresented because most people are DCing. Which is why the stats BHVR released about the escape rate between SWF and SoloQ are inflated because most SoloQ matches aren't getting factored in since someone DC's. Shocker I know. SWF are likely to stay in matches.
The bottom line is this game is going to keep hemorrhaging players until all that is left is SWF and angry Killers. BHVR should be focusing on bringing fun back to the game; changing SWF mechanics and then re-balancing Killers/Maps/Perks. They won't do that though, that would require immense effort, so they'll keep milking DBD since they know they won't have another successful IP without it being attached to DBD.
That's actually my point, i'm saying that if a survivor individually decides to "go next" in 10% of their games, it amounts to every 3 games having someone "go next". In order for it to be every other game, you simply need it to be leaving 15% of their games. If survivors "go next" in 15% of their games, due to the nature of there being 4 survivors in a game, that amounts to 50% of games having someone who "goes next"
So when people say like "i only go next 1 in 10 games i play, or 1 in 20" it actually amounts to a larger percentage of games having a player like that than people realize.
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@DancewithmeKate said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869679#Comment_3869679
If they do that:
+ People will just stop play DbD which is no company would want. You are losing customers which is buying skins and dlcs to support your game.
+ Survivor exp will be more miserable. Because game is forcing you to stay in a match you actually don't want.
+ Killer queues will be so much worse since people either forced stay in a match they don't want or they just uninstalled game. Less survivor players in queues.
+ That's not solution at all. They still can ruin game for everyone with no ban risk. They can run to killer. They can just farm totems and chests and not progress the game. They can miss skill checks on generator to make killer find them. And you can't know if they were just trying to go next or bad teammates. No moderator can tell either. And no you can't ban people for being bad at game.
Your solution is just creates more problems. If they want to fix this game, it's pretty simple:
Nerf overpowered killers aka Nurse, Blight, Billy, Spirit etc.
Add limit to generator regression perks. They should not stack.
Rebalance maps and make them more fair for both sides. They should not favour killers.
- People already aren't playing DBD, they are queueing up and then someone "goes next" and then everyone sits in a miserable game
- The games are miserable because people are going next, there aren't that many matches that you don't want to be in, its just someone gives up so quick every time.
- Killer queues are already bad if you want to play a normal game, i don't count matches where someone "goes next" as a game
- Yes it is, running into the killer is bannable, they can detect people not progressing the game because crows are a thing that exist. They can detect missed skill checks. Yeah you might say "they might be bad" that's true. But if the system detects someone with 4k hours missing every single skill check in multiple games, obviously that is a sign that something is going on.
- Per the data, nurse and spirit are BELOW average in terms of killer, so not sure what you are on about there. Billy is slightly above average and blight is still a bit above that, but not too far off from the average. If you want to talk about overpowered killers per the data, they need to be nerfing freddy it looks like.
Think about this, if everyone just "went next" in 1 out of every 10 games, that doesn't seem like much does it? But now, each player on your team has a 10% chance to "go next" which means that statistically 35% of your games someone "goes next" That is a serious problem.
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@Orvarihusklumpen said:
Yeah but how exactly are you fixing this? A miserable experience in this game is a subjective thing. That mean we would have to let the devs decide what an "unfun" thing in this game
By making it not possible. Remove the 4% mechanic, and start punishing survivors who grief their team by throwing matches. No different than how it works now where you can report people for body blocking and griefing that way.
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@jmwjmw27 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869570#Comment_3869570
Yes but you made yourself vulnerable to flashlight saves and the amount of time to get one hook because of dribbling was massive.
True, but back then flashlight saves were much much harder to do because you had to be near frame perfect on your timing.
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@Roco45 said:
The hard truth that a lot of people don't want to talk about, is that the epidemic is because generally Surv is in the worst state it's ever been in. Sure the game is fun for SWF, because you're playing with friends, but in general, SoloQ is miserable and the worst it's ever been.
Every Killer is prepping for the worst match of their life (for good reason since SFW are unbalanced) and plays like they're expecting it, camping/tunneling/slugging. Maps have been nerfed and Surv perks have been nerfed while Killers basekits have been buffed/re-worked with buffs.
If BHVR tries to punish giving up on hook, the game will lose players incredibly quickly. You cannot force players to give up their most valuable resource, their time, when they're not having fun. Video games are for fun, not for being forced to afk or participate in miserable experiences otherwise they get a DC pan of three days.
What BHVR can do, is try to make the game more fun. Changing SWF mechanics to bring SWF more in line and close the gap of SoloQ vs SWF so that balancing overall is easier instead of changing everything to give Killers an edge over a 4-man sweat squad. There's a lot of ways to go about it, but players don't want to give up their unfair advantages, on both sides, and SoloQ regular Survivor players are getting all the punishment.
But if people are killing themselves on hook to get out of the game fast anyway and this happens more often than not, then why even bother queuing up to play the game.
And again, this isn't about "tunneling or camping" or anything like that. People will just kill themselves at the slightest thing, unless you are playing perkless trapper people are still gonna give up. And even then, some content creators were doing an experiment where they did just that and they STILL had people give up immediately. Like what do you want from people at this point?
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@jmwjmw27 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869496#Comment_3869496
tru3 states that dbd is in the most survivor sided state that it has ever been. He’s been playing the game since beta dbd.
So because tru3 states it, it is true?
And also, are you really so unaware as to think the current state of the game is more survivor sided than when DS was usable on no hooks, DH for distance was in the game, killers had longer animations and cooldowns, survivors got more distance on hit, gens were shorter, heals were shorter, and there were genuine infinites in the game?
Killer is in one of if not the best spots they’ve been in aside from broken metas like the gen kick meta.
You could also counter DS back then by "dribbling" the survivor.
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@iloveandhatethisgame said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869496#Comment_3869496
“tru3 states that dbd is in the most survivor sided state that it has ever been. He's been playing the game since beta dbd.”
Yeah the dude that wins most of his games yet complains about everything.
Yeah sorry I don’t care about his biased takesWell to be fair, back in beta we had things like, insta mori. And also people generally didn't know how to play very well. Back then "looping" wasn't really a thing because the game was more akin to a hide and seek, whereas now its more like a game of freeze tag.
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@DancewithmeKate said:
That what happens when you nerf mid tier killer to ground. But killers like Blight, Nurse, Spirit totally fine!
Well the overall killer average there is 56.46%, and nurse is 56.72% blight is 61.13% and spirit is 54.45%
So are you suggesting that literally every single killer in the game needs a nerf other than:
- Huntress
- Trapper
- Knight
- Ghost Face
- Trickster
- Chucky
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@Deathslinger1of2 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869184#Comment_3869184
Something that really bothers me is that the Devs say DBD is not a competitive game but they adjust it as one. A non-competitive game is fun bc everything is busted. But with a competitive game everything is made to be equal in a sense. (If that makes sense. I agree it’s leaning competitive.)
That is probably old information. Non-competitive "party" games do not use MMR. I don't think DBD was ever a party game, but even if it was, that died when MMR became the standard.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869255#Comment_3869255
i don't pressure gates. I am pressuring survivors. all i am saying is that you can get a lot more hooks in end game than you think you can.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869200#Comment_3869200
i don't think there is any killer sided maps. the maps that are killer sided look neutral to me while neutral maps are survivor sided. hawkin is a lot stronger than you think it is. i don't think the loops are favor for killer on that map. a good looper can waste a lot of time on that map.
I think we are talking a past each other here. Yes, you pressure survivors, so ok lets say 4 survivors are up, and 1 guy is on the hook right now. Ok, so you say you don't camp that survivor on the hook, and instead start going after the other survivors. A chase starts, lets say that the chase even lasts 10 seconds because it was super quick and they made a mistake. You pick that survivor up, walk to a hook, hook them. Or maybe you even slug them lets say.
It takes 20 seconds to open a gate. Even if you are slugging the survivor, it is not physically possible for you to walk to another part of the map to "pressure another survivor" probably not even on a blight, before they have the gates opened, and at that point again, if they have endurance, or are healthy, it is a free escape unless they are in the opposite corner of the map.
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@vBlossom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869263#Comment_3869263
I literally told you what BHVR needs to do to stop people from giving up, like what are you expect people to say?
Please stay on topic.
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@vBlossom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869251#Comment_3869251
But people already responded to you.
You don't want people to give up? Buff Survivors.
BHVR could see stats of the matches and see when people are giving up.
- If a lot of people give up/DC while playing against certain killers, do something about them
- If a lot of people give up/DC while playing against certain perks, do something about them
- If a lot of people give up/DC after some kind of situations, do something about that.
It's that simple, like… really.
Oh, this Steve loaded to match, was immediately hooked by Blight on lethal, then was tunneled and hooked again, then gave up on 4 gens left. Must be something with Survivor Entitlement™.
BHVR should just gather data about matches and analyze them to have some feedback.
Maybe then they won't have to beg to vote for DBD in some kind of Steam award and playercount would go up.
—Or we could just ban a lot of people because they give up, but that way they won't spend their money on DLC and skins.Please stay on topic, i'm not turning this thread into an "us vs them" I already blocked the troll account, please don't turn this thread into something its not.
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@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869227#Comment_3869227
I agree with this, but you should have started the post with that. Currently your post looks wild without last part, ngl.
Uh, i'm not sure how, i explained how it would be good for the game, and how it would not affect average level survivor play and nobody has been able to demonstrate that other than "killer bad" I have never heard any definition of a "Check spot" other than what i described in the thread, so again i fail to see the problem here.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869230#Comment_3869230
i am usually doing that before exit gates are open but sometimes you can continue down people even when exit gates are open and survivors get caught up in picking people up and healing. I am not saying this is good strategy or that it works vs elite survivors but i sometimes win by playing this way.
your right. it shouldn't work in practice but i make it work.
Well thats my point, if 4 survivors are up it is not physically possible for you to pressure both gates enough to keep them closed, and once they are open if the survivor is healed, or has endurance, it is a 100% free escape from nearly anywhere on the map other than the opposite corner from the free speed boost they get.
I should note that the exception here is an endgame build. Like, if you are running no way out, and remember me and such that changes the math. But as you stated you aren't running endgame builds.
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@vBlossom_ said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869238#Comment_3869238
Sure bestie, and people want to give up, demand fast bleedout option and are non-stop asking bhvr to do something with slugging and tunneling because they are just bored 🥰
Its fine, i edited, not going to bother responding to a troll account. I'd like to stay on topic with the thread anyway.
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@BuffDH said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869233#Comment_3869233
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869230#Comment_3869230
Bhvr need to buff Survivors. Why can't you understand?
EDIT:
nevermind, obvious troll account.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869208#Comment_3869208
that is not what Daniel talking about. He is talking about when last gen pops, a lot of killer go into defensive mode and camp hooks. in like first 20-30 seconds, i play super aggressive and sometimes turn 1vs4 into 3 kills by super aggressive hooking. sometimes slugging when need be. it is super risk strategy but sometimes i win by playing aggressive in the end game.
this isn't me running end game perks either like no way out or remember me either. it is just default.
Would love to see some video footage of what you are talking about. You cannot physically walk across the map fast enough before they can open the gate, and once the gate is open a speed boost from anywhere gives them a free out.
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@FearNoEvil said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/436447/check-spots-should-not-be-a-thing
How can they change check spots without breaking the game?
Basically by removing holes in walls (not windows) that let survivors see through them and making the red stain not go through walls in weird places.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869191#Comment_3869191
The hit is confirmed unless the Killer is bad. There is no Survivor skill expression there, the only way they delay the hit is due to a Killer misplay.
Strawman argument.
I can think of a LOT of maps that are Killer-sided. Here they are
Killer-Sided (or leaning):
- Aazarov's Resting Place
- Coal Tower
- Dead Dawg
- Father Campbell's Chapel
- Forgotten Ruins
- Cowshed (somehow)
- Haddonfield
- Midwich
- RPD East
- RPD West
- Rotten Fields
- Sanctum of Wrath
- Suffocation Pit
- The Game
- Borgo
- Hawkins
- Torment Creek
- Rancid Abattoir
- Lery's
- Wrecker's Yard
Neutral Maps:
- Blood Lodge
- Gas Heaven
- Greenville Square
- Grim Pantry
- Pale Rose
- Groaning Storehouse
- Ironworks
- Ormond
- Shelter Woods
- Thompson House
- Wretched Shop
Survivor-Sided:
- Badham
- Disturbed Ward
- Eyrie
- Family Residence
- Garden of Joy
- Mother's Dwelling
- Nostromo
- Temple
- Toba
A 3v1 at 3 gens is a win for the Killer unless they make a colossal and repeated mistake. That's as easy of a win as it gets. A 3v1 at 2 gens is also a Killer win 9/10 times.
I try to refrain from bringing personal skill into it, but you already did so…
If you have trouble winning a 3v1 at 3 gens, it's probably on you. If you think maps like Haddonfield are Survivor-sided, again, that's on you.
There is no way you can say that pallet city (The game) is killer sided. Half the pallets in that map are 100% safe pallets or god pallets that must be broken. There is no way you think that chapel is fine with that broken ass main building. Lery's is killer specific, so is hawkins and so is RPD and cowshed is killer sided?
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@UndeddJester said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869056#Comment_3869056
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3869024#Comment_3869024
I think you're both correct, but I believe this is an inherent problem of a Asym game, that I cant really see a way for it not to exist. It is a team of survivors vs a killer, and let's REALLY think about that for a second...
In any team game, you are by definition dependent upon your teammates; that's what makes it a team game. If you are on the worse team, then you should lose, and this is very common (in fact its the status quo) for every team game in existence... the team.that plays the worst, tends to lose...
Now you can have individual players who may be better or worse, but generally speaking the team with the best teamwork should win... so lets explore some team games...
A game like Counter Strike is high on individual skill, where a single great player can clutch rounds for their team and beat 5 players single handed... this means that it's possible, and not even uncommon to see 5 players who have good teamwork lose many rounds to a team with 4 poor players and 1 amazing player... however for the most part strong teamwork can and should keep up.
A game like Team Fortress 2 on the other hand, while still having a lot of individual skill, ultimately it's greater teamwork that wins most of the time. You might be a truly unbelievable Soldier, and a decent Pyro/Scout shutting you down and protecting their Medics and Snipers still have a good shot of beating you.
So what point am I making? Well in an asym like DBD, we aren't pitting teamwork vs. teamwork, we are pitting teamwork vs. a single player. That means the "teamwork" of the killer is always perfect, whereas as a survivor your ability to win is dependent upon the skill of your team. If you as a survivor are not very dependent on your teammates, it means that you are appropriately powerful to take the killer on 1vs1.
Since this game is 4vs1, then this must lead to a scenario where Survivors are overpowered, because if every survivor can effectively 1vs1 the killer consistently and not be in a hopeless game because 1 survivor threw the game hard, the killer is outnumbered and should most of the time lose... as such the balance has to be skewed so that the killer is stronger in the 1vs1, and by proxy it therefore must, by design, be extremely punishing for survivors if they make a mistake.
This isn't an example of favouritism towards killers, this is an inherent quality of an asym... Ultimately Survivors are pitting their ability to work as a team vs. the killers ability to catch them individually quickly and put survivors in difficult to coordinate positions... I don't really see a way you can make it so that survivors aren't dependent on each other, and aren't punished very hard for mistakes, without making it so that the game is heavily survivor sided.
I agree with this 100%. Everyone seems to want to treat the survivor role like everyone is just a solo player and not part of a team. They want the game to be balanced in the 1v1, but forget that for that to be true, it would inherently be unbalanced in the 1v4. By DESIGN asymmetrical games should always favor the 1 (or less) players, because with less players, they don't have to work as a team. If your team is bad, you should lose, and that is the point.
If people want 1v1, then they should be a 1v1 queue where its like a 1v1 chase and leave the team game to the teams.
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@crogers271 said:
I do wish BHVR would reduce / remove the first stage unhook. If they truly think that players would quit DbD without the ability to leave, let players DC on hook with no penalty, but I think just removing the ability to self unhook in the first 3 minutes would solve a lot of games.
That said, I think there are a number of issues that contribute to the problem.
1: Importance of the early game - a quick down from the killer basically seals the game. A single player who went AFK and got downed is such a huge swing. Now the early game is also very important for the killer, but the killer probably gains something from the early game if they don't get a quick down (such as elimination of pallets).
2: Slugging epidemic - as a survivor there have definitely been games I regretted getting saved, only to later be slugged while the killer search the map for the 4k. While I try to stick games out as much as possible, I definitely understand the feeling of survivors who want to get out before the game becomes impossible to move forward and risk being slugged while the killer searches the map.
3: 1v1 nature - BHVR sometimes encourages, as do many players, the idea that each survivor is playing just for themselves. So even if the game is still winnable for the other survivors, it might not be winnable for the person who is on hook. If a person has internalized BHVR's message that the only thing which matter is whether they escape or not, the hook suicide is much more logical.
I do agree that early game is a bit too impactful on both sides. The game is basically decided at the end of the first chase. If the first survivor goes down before a gen gets done, the game is probably over for the survivors, especially when there is slowdown perks in place. If the survivors finish 2-3 gens before the killer gets their down, the killer is probably gonna lose.
This would be mitigated if they just slowed the early game down, and sped the late game up, and then reworked the killer slowdown perks to do something else and buff the killer basekit regression so its all more normalized instead of people bursty on both sides.
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@joeyspeehole said:
The constant slugging and tunneling every single match is unenjoyable. Or when you have like six clowns in a row. And now, people are wanting guaranteed loop hits with this new Freddy build. It makes sense that people are just jumping to the next match.
BTW, creating loop-countering powers is part of the problem.The reason they keep creating anti-loop killers is because when they TRIED to create killers that had powers around map control everyone complained. Look at sadako, look at knight, look at skull merchant. These were killers where their power was bad at a loop, but it gave them great map control and macro gameplay. And what happened? Everyone complained and complained, and now we have a bad sadako who has a bad chase power and a mediocre map control teleport and mediocre slowdown. We have a knight who can't use his power in chase anymore, and the guards are a joke and can't hit anything on their own, and we have a skull merchant who was intentionally nerfed to being the worst killer in the game so they can revisit her in 2 years.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3868892#Comment_3868892
i agree. that is why the nerf killer mentality to fix rage quit is dangerous. stats are difficult to measure if there is a large amount of rage quit games and you will certainly get inflated kill-rate and win-rates stats.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3868945#Comment_3868945
your describing a lot of my killer end games where i will comeback in the end game. the risk for killer is high but can work sometimes.
the go next mentality for survivor makes solo survivor not as fun to play.
Those types of things only happen because the survivors let it happen. Think about the endgame in those scenarios where you "have a comeback" is it because you have 1 guy on the hook and the other 3 try to save them? If those 3 would "just leave"™ then it would be a loss for you.
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@vBlossom_ said:
Blame BHVR for this.
Every small survivor mistake can lead to losing match and with 3v1 you have no chance when there are 3+ gens to do.
And I'm not here to entertain killer, if I don't have any chance to win, what's the point?There are some fun killers to play against, but also there are killers such as Blight/Nurse with full meta build that would also slug you and give you attitude.
I don't want to sweat all game, I want a chill game.
Removing self-unhook would do nothing (it would harm even more things survivors can do and push them more into being just meat puppets to entertain killers), because if someone would want to leave, they would just go straight to the killer.
I do, and i'm asking them to fix it.
The game also falls apart for a killer if they make a tiny mistake too, maybe one chase that goes just a little bit too long. This game is a snowball fest on both sides.
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@joeyspeehole said:
If the timer runs out, the survivors get sacrificed to the entity. If you let the survivors bleed out, it’s different.
If the gate gets blocked when you hit a survivor while running in the gate, how do you account for normal gameplay, where a killer tries to hit the survivor on the way out?
Make it only work if they are hanging around the gate for some number of seconds. If a survivor is inside the gate for say 8 seconds, and gets hit by the killer, it should block the gate. This wouldn't impact normal gameplay, because it only takes you 3 seconds to leave from the entrance of the gate.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3868654#Comment_3868654
You brought up comp 🤣🤣oh whatever this isn’t worth my time
I mention comp in terms of high skill players, do you think high mmr players don't exist in normal queues? And again, you are attacking comp, i'm asking you to explain why removing check spots would be bad for the game.
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@Devil_hit11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/436447/check-spots-should-not-be-a-thing
i agree but i do not think the problem is check spots. it is red glow. red glow gives survivor wall-hacks for where the killer is in the loop. they can use red glow to determine where killer is in a loop which allow them to get extra reaction time in check spots.
there is also the fact that a lot of check spots are by product of the loop being too big/too safe and than there is just some loops where survivor can see through walls which is another issue. those type of mechanics gives survivor free wall-hack perks without using them and a person that knows where you are at loops does not allow any mindgames to occur.
I do agree with this, in general i think the red stain should not go through walls or structures.
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@vol4r said:
"It also promotes more skill-based gameplay where each loop is a proper 1v1 mindgame between the survivor and the killer, where the better player winds due to how well the killer can mindgame and trick the survivor, vs the survivor able to respond to the killer and make proper choices based on what the killer has done historically."
No, winning 50/50 is not skill.
Have you never played a fighting game before?
You knock your opponent down, they now have options, they can block, or they try and counter attack. If you expect their counter attack, you can block their counter attack, and now punish them and knock them down again, resetting the situation, if you don't expect their counter attack, then you likely get knocked down, and the situation is reversed to you.
It creates this back and forth mindgame where, someone does the counter attack 3 times, surely they wouldn't do it a 4th time right? And then they do, and they get a full punish that takes the round back. It creates situations where the game is about conditioning your opponent to do "A", and when they start doing "A", you start punishing them for it.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3868360#Comment_3868360
Comp players themselves flat out say comp needs to stay out of balancing issues. Hens, who plays comp, said something along the lines of "no true comp player would ever suggest balancing around comp." The only people who seem to want it balanced around comp are the people who don't even play comp. They just find the game difficult and want it easier.
Yeah, the comp players who are survivor mains would say that. Because then they get to make their next "watch me make this killer DC lol XDDDDD" compilation video and rake in the views.
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@OnryosTapeRentals said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3868336#Comment_3868336
You're. not. playing. comp.
Please, enough of this. Unless you're playing in tournaments, what happens in the comp scene is completely irrelevant. Of course survivors in the comp scene have a huge advantage, because:
- they're on comms
- have thousands of hours of practice
- know the maps they're playing on
- know the killer they will be playing against
- know what perks the killers are/aren't allowed to run
- know the teams they're playing against and what strategies they will use (given that they've likely competed before)
This is not true of the majority of public matches. Yeah you might get a SWF with high hours, but odds are they are just playing for fun and not doing clock callouts and all that nonsense. Comp is such an artificial environment that you cannot make any judgements of game balance from it.
If we balanced the game around comp, the game would die in like a week because no casuals would want to touch it anymore.
Comp players play in public matches too. And again, explain to me how this hurts the average solo queue survivor who doesn't know these check spots even exist. You have yet to explain anything around the actual point i'm making and instead are strawmanning the idea of comp.
Please, explain to me how my idea is bad and how it will negatively impact average level players.