Reinami
Reinami
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1481322#Comment_1481322
I think part of the problem again, is that these videos more or less become “opinions”, when you start to see the way he plays.
You could virtually put somebody else in that same match with those same survivors and probably gotten a different result. Because yes, while gens popped fast, it is also evidenced that he could have made different choices. In terms of which perks he chose, which way he decided to patrol, who he chased and for how long. All those things matter in a match where you are responsible for applying pressure.
The only pressure you can apply in the beginning of a match is patrolling gens. You do not have a hook, or a down at that point.
No one is trying to discredit your argument but when (especially on these forums) it’s nothing but tru video after tru video, I think it leads one to believe if it’s just the fact that he has that many hours and so he is bound so see more of those matches because of it. I don’t know him personally but I don’t watch him. This is just the feeling I get from comments I have seen and the fact that like I said his videos are predominantly shown as “evidence” on here.
There was literally a guy who came in and posted something like "its a true video, didn't watch" its not just an "opinion" people are literally ignoring the video because of who the person is playing the game.
On top of that, people have pointed out that yes, mistakes were made, but does 1 mistake deserve to make you lose the game as killer? Especially when survivors can make so many? Nobody has yet to refute that point.
On top of that. Its not fun to lose 3 generators on the first hook, period. It is not fun for either side if survivors just sit and m1 at a generator for 80 seconds. It's not fun for the killer to be down so far behind in the early game and have to tunnel, and camp, and slug in order to stand a chance at coming back. Nor is it fun for survivors when that happens. For the health of this game, they need to fix this.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1481251#Comment_1481251
That’s not it at all. See this is the type of attitude that turns me off about some of the people who are fanboys/girls. You can’t expect people to really be like “Oh I agree with everything because said streamer said so”.
Thousands of hours doesn’t mean they know everything about the game or they are any better than people who have a different opinion and present said opinions.
Im sitting at over 4K hours with a devotion 16 and I don’t for one second pretend like I know everything. Nor do I expect people to think that of me. I do however, use my own judgement and experiences when expressing my view-points. Even though there are streamers I watch that share different opinions than me.
I think the whole “this video proves blah blah blah” is what people get tired of.
The problem is this community has the opposite affect. Look at everyone here, we present some video evidence that shows maybe there is a problem, and generally a lot of people think there is, and whenever anyone posts evidence, they go "saw a true video, didn't watch" They literally see the popular streamer, and then ignore evidence solely because of who it comes from. A literal logical fallacy:
Ad hominem (Latin for 'to the person'), short for argumentum ad hominem, is a term that refers to several types of arguments, most of which are fallacious. Typically this term refers to a rhetorical strategy where the speaker attacks the character, motive, or some other attribute of the person making an argument rather than attacking the substance of the argument itself. -
@ins0 said:
If the most OP killer in the whole game, that NEEDED to be nerfed into the ground, including addons and basekit - CANNOT contain this issue, then what hope do we mere mortals have?
Also, as I am not linking a tru3ta1ent clip, but one of the Saviour - I'm sure people will now focus on the issue being presented and NOT on the person who presents it, right? RIGHT?
No, because they think that any streamer who plays this game literally as a job is apparently trash at the game.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1480894#Comment_1480894
And as I said, that would have wasted time regardless. Heal or work on a gen injured.
The turn was very obvious to me, maybe because I don’t do that. I (in my own playstyle) would have suspected the rest of the team would go on a gen because they saw an injured icon at the bottom. Effective teams will hop on a gen immediately. I don’t know about you but I would rather chase someone off a gen who has it over 50% progression over someone who has to heal and then wonder if it is safe enough to start on a gen.
That’s one of the gambles you take in this game. You can’t protect gens you didn’t even bother to patrol.
Not nearly enough time. It is simple math. If he had stopped the first survivor and ran to patrol gens as soon as he hit them, by the time he found another survivor, that one would have healed. 2 other survivors would have finished and you would have 2 gens gone, then the one he was chasing wouldn't be on a gen sure, but their gen would have nearly been done. It is likely that the guy who just finished healing would have run to go finish it. It wouldn't have amounted to much.
The fact that the survivor had a medkit changes everything.
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@Johnny_XMan said:
You forgot the part where he overcommitted to the First survivor who also took him BACK the same way he came from, meaning that all the patrolling he started to do he threw it out for that one survivor.
This is why if I don’t bring corrupt, I will hit someone and let them go. That causes them to have to make a choice whether to heal or work on a gen.
Clearly someone with as many hours as he has would get a feel for this, because it is something that is expected if you leave a big chunk of map without patrolling properly.
The survivor he chased had a medkit, if he left them they would have immediately healed and hopped on a gen. It would have taken him easily another 10-15 seconds to find another survivor. All that means is instead of having 3 gens gone, he would have had 2 gens gone and 1 at 90% and instead of having someone on the hook he only would have gotten 1 injured and another freshly healed from their medkit.
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@BubbaMain64 said:
Tru3 isn't a good player. I'm not saying it to discredit him but in almost all of his videos he uploads he makes dumb plays and in this one he over committed to a survivor, so of course gens are going to fly.
1v1 him bro.
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Another video true posted today where he analyzes the game and talks exactly about this kind of thing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hWejEncSZ2w -
@burt0r said:
Welcome to the world of online games where nobody gives a crap about decency towards teammates or other players.
It's the same in nearly all online multiplayer PvP games. Prime example is my go-to game league of legends or rocket league. Enemy teams gets first kill or goal -> instant DC
Sadly people don't care for morale or responsibility towards others as soon as they are protected by their anonymity online.
If this would happen in a well known circle of friends, at some point noone would invite them to play ever again.
Except in those games they don't just stop you from queuing for 5 minutes. They will actually ban you for several days, or weeks at a time. Permanently even if you do it too often.
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@FizzieFTW said:
I encountered someone in a game that brought a Mori, and prob the most toxic build he could. I ask his reasoning and he claimed it was because he knew we were a SWF (we weren't). He started ranting about how there was a "rebellion" starting against SWF. This whole thing made me really mad and I started thinking about it. Why do people complain about SWF so much. I understand if you're going against a really toxic 4 stack that bring flashlight and borrowed time and we'll make it and such, but that's not often the case. He complained about SWF groups having "comms" which I feel is something so utterly dumb to complain about, mostly because it should be a normal thing to have game chat between survivors. And isn't communication and teamwork the only way you could really make it out of the trial? Anyway, I just think it's ridiculous that people actually complain about others wanting to play a game with their friends and "having comms" out of all things like jesus are you really complaining about a mechanic that should be in the game by default? Haven't killer mains ever thought that maybe we wouldnt have to squad up in a discord if they just added game chat, or even a radio like in Friday The 13th? Now listen, I could say a lot more things but I have so many rants ready that I am losing track of what I'm saying already, so listen, I am not a killer main and barely play killer, maybe I am missing a part of the puzzle, so If you disagree with something I said, please comment and tell me. I want to see your side of this.
Stop whining about killers bringing a mori and "the most toxic build"
You know that he wasn't talking about pre-game chat. He was talking about survivors being on discord together while playing the game and being able to communicate things to each other that perks in the game do. You know there is like 14 perks that survivors have access to that only give information to and about what other survivors are doing? All 14 of those perks are given to survivors when they use discord to communicate with each other.
You aren't wrong though, i personally think that fixing SWF is not about nerfing them or allowing killers to not play against them. The way to fix SWF is to buff solo survivors by giving them more information and then buffing killers to compensate.
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@Jukenobi said:
This was just a poorly executed killer game. He made a lot of mistakes and gens got done with ease. Sometimes the survivors are just better than the killer as well. The game is hilariously easier for killers these days. They still come on here to complain about not getting their "deserved" 4k every game.
How does ending the first chase by getting 2 hits with only 1 pallet thrown and no window vaults or loops equal a lot of mistakes.
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@Veeramid said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1478865#Comment_1478865
Eh complain about it ig the game isn't balanced around 4ks every match the devs even said that.
Nice strawman, i never said that i expected the game to be 4ks or that it should be balanced around that.
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@Veeramid said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1478268#Comment_1478268
Well for starters the survivors spawn usually next to gens. True could have brought corrput intervention so no gens would have been worked on that fast. Then once he found them he could've used ruin to start regressing them. Gens are perfectly fine. True applied zero pressure to the other survivors to force them off of gens. What do you want them to do? Sit there and no do the objective 😑. Honestly true, zubat, and Scott jund all say gens are fine but you still link clips to complain about YOUR problem with them not theirs.
It should not be required to bring a perk every single game, there is a reason that they changed ruin, because it was used in 80% of games. And there was a reason for that. Just switching that out for using corrupt every game is terrible design and highlights a problem.
Explain to me how he is supposed to "apply pressure" i'm tired of the jUsT pReSsUrE gEnS fOrEhEaD argument. You can't pressure 7 gens against 4 survivors who all spawn on 4 different gens. It's not possible.
All of the players you mentioned actually say the opposite whenever i watch them play. Hell, scott even brought up that something needs to be done and came up with the whole "early game warmup" idea to begin with, so obviously he doesn't think it's fine that early game doesn't exist, or he wouldn't suggest they fix it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LVnWIe-5Lcs
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@AGM said:
This thread is bizarre.
1) The survivors are competent. Ideally, less skilled killers will get matched with less competent survivors.
2) His build is trash, he even acknowledged this. Corrupt, Sloppy, Infectious, BBQ. All you need.
3) Just because you can't recognize the killer's mistakes doesn't mean they don't exist.
4) This guy doesn't know how to play Pyramid Head. First, you get close. If they are trying to loop around a pallet/window, plant your sword. If they drop/vault, hit them while stuck in the animation. If not, M1. He missed his first special attack and was much too far away when the Dwight vaulted the long wall. His first chase should have been over much more quickly.
5) The first 3 gens go quickly by design. It might feel bad to lose them, but the game should naturally slow after the first down. If you can't get a down by 2 gens left, you're having a bad game, and/or doing something wrong. Learn from the mistakes, and move on. Going into denial and demanding changes to a system you don't understand nor want to learn about isn't helpful.
6) Even with all this stuff going wrong he still got a 12 minute game and a kill out of it. Expecting to 4k with poop perks, a killer you don't know well, and a bad start to the match is unreasonable
1) So competent survivors should always 4E? not sure i see what you are getting at.
2) Name another build that would have made him not lose 3 gens in the first 1:45 seconds of the game. I can't, hell corrupt is the only thing that even stands a chance of doing that and even then that's not much.
3) Name the mistake he made, what i see, is someone who initiated a chase about as fast as they possibly could, make 1 small mistake that let the survivor get to the pallet, then played the harvester perfectly, then made an amazing read to get the second hit.
4) I'm pretty sure true knows how to play PH, hes got more hours in this game than probably most of the people in this thread combined.
5) Correct, and my point is that it is bad design. That is the entire point of this thread, it is bad design that an early game doesn't exist anymore.
6) Because at that point the survivors were messing around, and on top of that, this is true, he has like 5k+ hours in this game, if he DIDN'T recover i would have been surprised.
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@Milo said:
I actually doubt people would use it without BP. And i don't think it's too op. It's good, but no op for sure.
This.
If it didn't give BP, i'd use something else, like thrilling.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1474734#Comment_1474734
I agree that gen speed is broken right now. Just saying this video is not a good example to demonstrate this because Tru3 barely gets a hit before the 2 minute mark (which is normally around 1/5 of a game, so that's pretty bad) and he obviously makes a lot of mistakes in the early game. A good example would be someone that actually downs people in less than 30 seconds and still have 2-3 popping in less than 2 min.
Are you even watching the same video? He gets his first at about 45 seconds into the match. When you factor in the first chase time and finding the first survivor, that is pretty fast.
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@Veeramid said:
I like your breakdown but true highlights the problem here instantly. He states that the build has zero gen pressure. He knows it isn't a good build and that he's likely to lose. The problem with saying gens need to be nerfed or fixed is that if they balanced around zero slowdown perks like true has in this build. That would make this game a nightmare to play if you had a spirit or nurse with all slowdown perks. Pyramid also isn't S tier so there's no reason to not run slowdown.
Requiring a specific perk or killer to play is not balanced. There is a reason ruin was used in 80% of games, the fact that i was basically required was stupid and everyone knows that. Now i'm not saying that you should balance the game around no perks or addons, or that every perk should be viable. But i shouldn't have to run pop/BBQ/Corrupt on every killer.
Also, please rewatch that first few minutes and tell me what "slowdown" perk would have done anything in that case? Maybe if he ran corrupt he only would have lost 2 gens and 1 almost done, but the point still stands that he completed 8% of his objective, while survivors completed 60% of theirs.
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@Terra92 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1472410#Comment_1472410
These arguments of high rank group play is so niche though. Like out of the hundreds of players in red ranks, so few of them are groups. I get it, it sucks, but it's like me complaining about getting mori'd almost every game for a couple days. I'm just unlucky with the matchmaking. It's anecdotal at best.
The argument that the potential of a group doing this is real, but the reality of it is that it's not common, not fun to play this kind of style for more than a passing moment, as a gag or just to feel "pro." It's just not fun in general, which is why the vast majority of players don't use these playstyles, and if they play as a four person group, it's usually just to mess around, play meme builds, etc.
This forum seems to give off the impression that all survivors, duos, trios, four person groups, are all trying to sweat the P3 blood off their clothes as they abuse every mechanic in the game to beat them. When the reality is that the player you couldn't catch that one game probably got the crap beat out of them the last game, and might have that same experience the next. It's not a consistent experience for players. Stream highlights and YouTube videos only show the best three games they had but in reality they probably played several before, several in between, and several after, all which didn't make the cut.
As a rank 1 killer with 1000 hours, you don't have to be a SWF in order to be "organized" this can happen at high ranks against good survivors.
Also, this is a terrible argument:
"Let's not fix this problem cause it doesn't happen that often" i could say the same thing about iridescent head huntress with mori, but it's still stupid and should be fixed.
Games should ALWAYS be balanced at the highest level, or there is no point in improving. There are things they can do to be smart about how they balance to make it so it doesn't hurt low level players. Low level survivors aren't looping the killer around efficient tiles like the killer shack or jungle gyms like crazy, they aren't playing on gens perfectly while they crouch across the map or self-care in a corner. You can nerf high level survivors without affecting low level survivors.
This video talks about how they did that on TF2:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X1p42KtZOCw -
@wildcardyo said:
Split gen pressure by 2-3 survivors doing individual gens far away from each other is way too powerful. The repair speeds are too fast when taking into account the distance to travel between the gens and the time it takes to catch a single survivor.
The limits on killer mobility for all but several killers and how long a survivor can last being chased with the number of pallets/windows/safe houses is mathematically flawed. Even just the ability to just hold w after being hit and last another 20 seconds as the killer wipes his blade and chases with w is too much. This doesn't even account for the ability of a survivor to juke, hide and vanish during a chase or outplay the killer through loops. Even carrying the survivor to a hook and then proceeding to travel across the map to the now completed gens is silly. The math is just imbalanced overall.
Stop with this "whataboutism" I'm not saying they shouldn't fix other things. I'm saying this is a big problem that needs to be fixed. When they nerfed ruin, they waited a while to change toolboxes because they wanted to see the affect. I'm saying there is a problem here that needs to be fixed. If they need to make adjustments after that, then so be it.
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@gofu said:
Killers, I know you're harder to play than survivor, and sometimes stressful. But please, if you finally kill that last tbagging scumbag, rather than nod aggressively and shut hatch in his face, give hatch.
And i know it sounds ridiculous, but that's the challenge behind it. You show that toxicity doesn't affect you really, and trust me you'll be the winner in the end when you're surprised by a thank you from someone you would have never thought said it. You'll feel good and like a man in control rather than following instincts.
I know a lot out there are just scared of having hard games and have the habit of tunneling someone out of the game at 3 gens, please don't let it be the baby Meg or Dwight queued with the clearly superior players. Try going for someone who at least knows fundamentals of looping. Or better not do it at all unless you clearly have to (4 survivors 2 gens etc..)
Survivors, I know sometimes you tbag at pallets and click clack to get the killers attention making time for your team.
But especially with visibily green/yellow rank killers, please don't. Think of the many unfun matches they had to play before yours due to the broken matchmaking.
You could try crouching and nodding, it looks cuter and funnier, and certainly not as annoying and dishumilating as tbagging. You don't want him or her camping you at the end of the day.
I'm hoping one day we all get along and ditch the DS/NOED arguments because of one bad match we had.
No thanks, i play to win and when people want to cry about it that's their problem.
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@Veen said:
I'll never understand why people take youtubers as the best killers/survivors around and want to balance the game around THEIR experience.
Probably because those youtubers have thousands of hours played and are easily the most experienced players in this game?
Who has more evidence to backup their situation? The guy with 100 hours, or the one with 5000 hours?
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@Dsalter said:
i mean both are clearly over-performing if they are in pretty much every build, spine chill especially breaks the ability of stealth of several killers while BBQ allows you to pretty much counter any form of stealthing, especially doubled down with either iron maiden or doctor's powers.
i mean the whole idea of DBD is that its considered a horror game, doesn't having a perk that works from basically just beyond most killers terror radius and know if they are looking at you sort of take the "horror" from the aspect of a horror game? at least premonition has a cooldown.
BBQ not only rewards you for hooking someone with more points but simultaneously rewards you for hooking by letting you find other survivors for a whole 10 seconds just outside of most killers terror radius taking away some of the skill of tracking along with denying other survivors any real stealth, seems kind of cheesy right?
my solution for both of these is:
nerf spine chill to 12/16/20 range for it to activate so you can still get the "oh no im being found" aspect of the perk without completely nullifying a good portion of the killers ability to ambush you and upgrade the speed boost to 8/16/24% so you have that risk reward of finishing what your doing now or legging it before they grab you.
reworking BBQ so that instead of revealing survivors outside the hooks radius it reveals them INSIDE the hooks radius allowing you to know if anyone was following you to attempt to break hooks or borrow time unhook and maybe even while revealed they suffer from the exposed status so that they are punished for trying to follow the killer rather than fearing them which in turn will buy the killer some time knowing that a survivor is not nearby or if they are they get a chance to punish them for trying to unhook so soon.
now your probably wondering why BBQ didn't retain its bonus blood points? i personally think perks that boost your gains outside of matches influence how often something is used to much and with the possible buff to blood gains in future maybe its about time we change those perks to be more functional, speak of...
surprise rework idea for distressing perk for killer and we're gunna live forever!
We're gunna live forever can actually encourage people to play quite destructively, selfish or toxically due to the bonus blood points, so instead of speeding up healing or bonus blood points i suggest that if the survivor unhooking is healthy they are blood bound to the injured survivor, if the healthy survivor takes a hit within 12 seconds that survivor is put into the injured state and the injured other survivor is healed by one health state.
if the unhooked survivor is hit within 10/11/12 seconds of being unhooked the blood bound healthy survivor instead takes the damage and is put into the injured state and the killer is flashlight blinded for 3 seconds.
this rework will discourage tunneling and rewarding sacrifice and protection over the current "i want my blood points" mentality it currently provides.
Distressing now not only increases your terror radius but survivors will breathe 50% louder or 100% louder if they have been inside a locker for 7/6/5 seconds or if you are looking their direction (including inside a locker)
this will make stealthiness harder around distressing without making it impossible and reward a killer with good audio perception similar to how whispers is the spine chill for killers this would be the premonition for killers
Spine chill is fine and BBQ is overrated. I run it on every killer, but not for the effect, for the extra bloodpoints. If BBQ didn't give bloodpoints, i'd just run thrilling, which is better anyway.
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@Terra92 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1465498#Comment_1465498
The game tends to halt at two gens usually. Once the killer gets the ball rolling, at least three people are on first hook, usually at least one is on death hook, and probably in a chase. Once one person dies(usually at two gens left, sometimes three, sometimes one), the game basically halts. You often end up with a constant rotation of one person being on hook, the other saving them, and a third being chased.
Usually. I find most of my matches end up that way, even if there's a rushed feeling. Often times it's rushed because everyone did three generators that were close together, leaving the last four pretty close together.
Killers shouldn't lose 3 gens in the first chase, yes the game does slow down a bit, but not nearly enough against organized teams at high ranks. Even so, it would be better for both sides if they evened it out a bit more and slowed the game down a bit in the early game, but sped it up in the later part of the game.
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@IIITweedleIII said:
Isn't that already a thing? I love seeing (as a Killer) Quiter Bonus.
To be honest I dont much pay attention how much BP it gives but still. It Is a thing. If I'm not mistaken 🤷♂️
You only get 625 points and its in brutality. A single chase that leads to a down typically is
200 for spotting + ~75 for the chase + 300 for the hit + 200 for spotting again + ~70 for chase + 300 for another hit +500 for hook.
When someone DCs you get 625, which is less than you'd get in a single chase against them.
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@Onyx_Blue said:
Yet again, another post showcasing that people have no clue what pressure is. You have literally spelled out the massive issue all you boosted players have as killer: you hard commit to the first survivor you find. When really, he should be hitting them, seeing that they're just holding W and should switch focus back to the gen areas he knows people are in.
You cannot complain that early game and gen speed are too unfair for killers when you're using examples of, and most likely doing so yourself, bad gameplay - ie wasting your time trackig a survivor across the map. Ever heard of gen pressure, love? It isn't a myth nor a meme people sheep that it is, it's something good players execute and exhibit frequently and consistently in their killer matches.
I already addressed that in 2 posts i made:
The amount of time he spent going after that guy was also partially patrolling because he was near gens, on top of that the total time spent was 28 seconds. It would have likely taken him another 15 seconds alone just to abandon and find a different survivor to chase. Which means instead of a hook he would have gotten 2 survivors injured, 2 gens completed, and 1 gen nearly complete (>90%). Not much of a difference.
The guy he was chasing also had a medkit, so if he left him alone he would have spent ~15 seconds healing himself, wasting about 40 seconds of his time to gain 15. So likely he would have abandoned chase, found another guy on a gen, injured them in the same time he took to down the first and would end up with 1 injured, 1 freshly healed, 2 gens gone, and one at 90%. So no, abandoning that chase would have been the mistake.
The guy he was chasing would have started healing himself, he would have found a guy working on a gen that was almost done, probably around 80-90%. He would have likely injured that guy, and then those other 2 gens would have popped.
So he would have.
1 Injured survivor
1 Freshly healed
2 gens done
1 gen at 90%
I don't see how that is a better situation then
1 survivor on hook
3 gens done.
Also, if you are going to legitimately think that killers should just hit a survivor and let them go because they can hold w, this game has even more problems than i thought.
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@Valor188917 said:
He played like #########, where is this a good example? Watch Scottjund destroy ppl with m1 speedlimiter bubba if you want to watch somebody play near perfect, true is garbage considering the hours he puts into this game, it feels like he's burned out and bored of dbd but it's basically his job to play it.
He had 1 chase where the survivor got to 1 pallet and then the second hit was baited so they didn't get to it. How is that garbage?
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@Kira15233 said:
So, sometimes, it takes me a few gens to find 1 survivor and I get gen-rushed so hard, I wonder, is tunneling and camping tolerated if all gens are done? I do it thinking it's totally fine since it's escape time. I just wondered y'all opinion about it.
@SloppyKnockout said:
The only ones who don't "tolerate" tunneling and camping are survivors. Fortunately, there are no rules that say you can't tunnel and camp. The devs have even said they are legitimate strategies.
Don't let survivors try to brainwash you with their survivor-written rulebook for killers.
What this person said. Survivors that complain about camping and tunneling are by definition a scrub. Play to win.
http://www.sirlin.net/ptwSmall little section from the book on this topic:
The derogatory term “scrub” means several different things. One definition is someone (especially a game player) who is not good at something (especially a game). By this definition, we all start out as scrubs, and there is certainly no shame in that. I mean the term differently, though. A scrub is a player who is handicapped by self-imposed rules that the game knows nothing about. A scrub does not play to win.
Now, everyone begins as a poor player—it takes time to learn a game to get to a point where you know what you’re doing. There is the mistaken notion, though, that by merely continuing to play or “learn” the game, one can become a top player. In reality, the “scrub” has many more mental obstacles to overcome than anything actually going on during the game. The scrub has lost the game even before it starts. He’s lost the game even before deciding which game to play. His problem? He does not play to win.
The scrub would take great issue with this statement for he usually believes that he is playing to win, but he is bound up by an intricate construct of fictitious rules that prevents him from ever truly competing. These made-up rules vary from game to game, of course, but their character remains constant. Let’s take a fighting game off of which I’ve made my gaming career: Street Fighter.
In Street Fighter, the scrub labels a wide variety of tactics and situations “cheap.” This “cheapness” is truly the mantra of the scrub. Performing a throw on someone is often called cheap. A throw is a special kind of move that grabs an opponent and damages him, even when the opponent is defending against all other kinds of attacks. The entire purpose of the throw is to be able to damage an opponent who sits and blocks and doesn’t attack. As far as the game is concerned, throwing is an integral part of the design—it’s meant to be there—yet the scrub has constructed his own set of principles in his mind that state he should be totally impervious to all attacks while blocking. The scrub thinks of blocking as a kind of magic shield that will protect him indefinitely. Why? Exploring the reasoning is futile since the notion is ridiculous from the start.
You will not see a classic scrub throw his opponent five times in a row. But why not? What if doing so is strategically the sequence of moves that optimizes his chances of winning? Here we’ve encountered our first clash: the scrub is only willing to play to win within his own made-up mental set of rules. These rules can be staggeringly arbitrary. If you beat a scrub by throwing projectile attacks at him, keeping your distance and preventing him from getting near you—that’s cheap. If you throw him repeatedly, that’s cheap, too. We’ve covered that one. If you block for fifty seconds doing no moves, that’s cheap. Nearly anything you do that ends up making you win is a prime candidate for being called cheap. Street Fighter was just one example; I could have picked any competitive game at all.
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@Dwinchester said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1465424#Comment_1465424
Lol, you can't possibly believe that. Abandoning the chase would have been incredibly stupid. First off, its rotten fields, so just getting to another gen is going to take more time than he "wasted", the survivor is going to dip at the first sound of the terror radius, putting just as much distance as the guy he would have left, he had nothing like ruin, so the one gen he pressured wouldn't regress.
Stop to kick the gen and you waste even more time, and it's likely that someone will be right back on, including the guy he abandoned. Sooner or later, you have to commit to a chase, might as well be on the injured person.
Even assuming that he did make a mistake, which he didn't, why should one mistake cost you the entire match?
i think he is trolling.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1467836#Comment_1467836
Can you give me an example of when tunneling and camping was done with the intention to not be toxic?
Also I guess if the killer is farming, teabagging and flashlight clicking can be seen as friendly, otherwise it's just annoying.
I had a game the other day where it went down like this. I hooked someone and turned around to get use my pop on a gen. Within 5 seconds, they unhooked the guy. This happened twice. So both times it told me they like to hook save very quickly. So the 3rd guy i hooked, i camped. And what happened? Someone was right there waiting for me to leave, and started looping me around the pallet next to the hook, i hit him and as i do i see the other 2 survivors running for the hook save. 1 of them does a hook trade, and it repeats.
At the end of that game i was yelled and cursed at for "camping" like a noob. When the reality was, they were being overly altruistic, and camping was the best play there.
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@xenotimebong said:
People who could see the frustration of these scenarios have been saying this since people started complaining about survivors doing co-op gens quickly: if the survivors split up and work on three different gens they will win, as long as the fourth survivor can last long enough. And since at the start of the game survivors have maximum resources, any survivor with more than a handful of hours should be able to last long enough. I’d much rather have 3 or 4 survivors piling on one gen early game.
I really don’t see what any killer can do to stop 3 survivors on 3 gens. Even if you get a fast down, it’s not like they have to unhook instantly. You can’t abandon every chase that lasts longer than 10 seconds. And you can only be in one place at a time. Even mobile killers struggle.
Yeah, the problem has never been survivors doing the same gen together, it's when they split up that it's a problem.
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I love how there is an entire thread here of people arguing that this isn't a problem.
You are right, its not the biggest problem in the world but it is hard to see, but it would be nice for them to add an icon above the survivor's head that shows what item they are carrying in the lobby.
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@TruffleTurtle said:
While playing yesterday and today I've noticed that my mmr hasn't raised or anything. For survivor, its a mixed bag but its relatively getting me in better matches. For killer however, I keep going against rank 20 over and over and over again. Its been like this be4 the announcement happened and its just getting real sick of versing rank 20s who dont even know how to run. Is there like a certain amount of matches until you get better players?
MMR is almost always an elo system that has modified k-values or slightly different calculations.
Based on that knowledge, elo typically takes about 25 games to get good. Outside of that the more games played the more accurate your rating is so every game played makes it better.
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@AChaoticKiller said:
we all know pig has received nerf after nerf with this one being considered by the devs to be defining what a "basic attack is" and im going to give a few reasons why it should be considered one
first off it is only a extended lunge with no special effects like giving deep wounds like legion or being able to break pallets or be activated quickly like demogorgons shred. It is literally just a extended lunge that even gives survivors a warning before it starts and i also don't think that just because it needs to be charged to start should make it no longer a basic attack. now lets look at a few other killers power's that are considered basic attacks.
- nurse lunging after blinking
- spirit lunging after exiting phasing
- wraith lunging after uncloaking
- ghost face lunging out of shroud
- death slinger spearing and hitting a survivor.
- and the biggest offended to this myers in tier 3 since his attacks not only insta downs but his lunge is also longer.
now a lot of you will look at that list and say "hey they all used the regular lunge to land hits" and your right but here's the thing their power interacted with their lunge to land the hit and all power's in that list affected the lunge in some way while and or made it easier to land a hit. all pigs ambush is is a extended lunge it doesn't apply deep wounds and it doesn't insta down or can even be activated on the spot. the least the dev's can do is make it a basic attack so perks like make your choice which is one of her perks work with her power.
now for the other two buff idea's
the first one is simply making her crouch speed faster to that of ghost face's and making her FOV slightly higher so she can see over grass. this wouldn't be on par with ghost face since he can attack right out of his shroud and he can crouch faster than pig. the FOV being raised is something im sure everyone wants and would just be a very nice quality of life change.
The second buff is to make it so her roar when starting ambush instead starts after she charges it when she starts her ambush. I know this idea isn't original but im including it anyway since it does nothing but tell the survivor your thinking of trying to ambush so they can get a head start with sprint burst or if at a loop they can just move to a safer spot at it or abandon it.
This would nerf pig heavily, STBFL is one of her best perks because of this, especially if you are using the ambush charge speed addons.
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@frysauce01 said:
Moris: You can't live with 'em, you can't live without 'em. We love to watch our favorite killer inflict some gory punishment on those darn toxic survivors. But let's be honest: moris just aren't fair. So, here's my suggestion to try and balance those bad boys:
- Cypress Mori: Leave as is. I think this one is about right.
- Ivory Mori: "Allows the killer to mori survivors who have been hooked twice." This would make it similar to Pyramid Head's Final Judgement. It's strong, but not TOO strong.
- Ebony Mori: "Grants the ability to kill one survivor who has been hooked by your hand during the next trial." This is the old Ivory mori. In my opinion, taking a survivor out of the match early enough is pretty darn strong, and should be an iridescent offering.
What do you all think? Are moris too strong? Are they over hyped? Should my Ivory and Ebony ideas be swapped? Just some ideas for ya. :)
Everyone always makes the same stupid suggestion requiring 2 hooks to mori. If you do that, bringing a mori not only becomes pointless, but is actually a bad thing. Most mori animations are longer than hooking someone, on top of that you miss out on using perks like BBQ/Pop etc from using it. The only reason it works on PH, is because he has an entire power built around it.
Fixing moris and keys is simple really.
To fix keys:
- Make it so keys can no longer be found in a trial, they must be brought in.
- If a survivor is sacrificed while holding a key, that key is removed from the trial.
- A key now only allows 1 survivor to go through the hatch before the hatch immediately closes.
- Once a key has been used, the hatch cannot be opened for 60 seconds
To fix moris:
- Yellow mori is removed and becomes basekit (its fun, and has no real bearing on gameplay, since the last survivor is dead anyway barring the extremely rare circumstances of them having a DS or something right at the exit gate.)
- Green mori and Ebony mori now work off of a token system. Every time the killer gets a hook, the killer gains 1 token. Every time a generator is completed, the killer loses a token. Once the killer has received 3 tokens, they are able to mori a survivor.
- Green/Ebony mori make it so a survivor can no longer be moried within 60 seconds of being unhooked
- Green mori allows for 1 mori in a match.
- Ebony mori allows you to do 2.
This fixes keys by making it so you don't lose a game due to a survivor RNGing a key out of thin air. It also gives keys counterplay, becuase they can be removed from the match permanently. it also means that a killer can prepare and plan for a key. Keys also no longer become a free win for the whole team just because 1 person has a key. If multiple people have a key, the killer now has time to hunt them down before the hatch can be opened again.
This fixes moris by giving them counterplay. A survivor team can actively take away tokens from a killer to prevent them from getting moried by doing gens. It also prevents a killer from tunneling someone off the hook due to the 60 second rule. Also, 3 tokens, is the same number of hooks as someone being killed in a match, this means it doesn't accelerator the game too far into the killer's favor unless they actively sought to hook 3 different survivors.
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@Blueberry said:
There are many matches as killer that simply aren't winnable unless you're on certain maps, using a certain set of killers. That isn't good design.
i agree.
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@Khakuate said:
Gens are a problem yes, but if we want to fix gens we should fix camping and tunneling too.
Btw you could take a better example, tru3 did a really big mistake at early game (typical of him) and then wonders why gen pop like crazy
This is what we call a "Whataboutism"
Whataboutism, also known as whataboutery, is a variant of the tu quoque logical fallacy that attempts to discredit an opponent's position by charging them with hypocrisy without directly refuting or disproving their argument.[1][2][3]Instead of addressing the problem you just say "what about x" I think all of these things should be fixed.
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@Guiltron said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1465428#Comment_1465428
Yet your math doesn't make sense. So it takes 87 seconds for 3 survivors to finish 3 gens despite the fact he wasted 20 seconds to catch up to someone running in the open? In those 15 seconds he could've found another survivor and denied a generator from being repaired.
That's my point. So if instead of continuing the chase, lets say he went for another survivor and patroled.
The guy he was chasing would have started healing himself, he would have found a guy working on a gen that was almost done, probably around 80-90%. He would have likely injured that guy, and then those other 2 gens would have popped.
So he would have.
1 Injured survivor
1 Freshly healed
2 gens done
1 gen at 90%
I don't see how that is a better situation then
1 survivor on hook
3 gens done.
Both situations are extremely terrible. And prove that early game doesn't exist.
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@Guiltron said:
He literally made a critical mistake the first minute of the match by committing to the dude holding W instead of patrolling.
The amount of time he spent going after that guy was also partially patrolling because he was near gens, on top of that the total time spent was 28 seconds. It would have likely taken him another 15 seconds alone just to abandon and find a different survivor to chase. Which means instead of a hook he would have gotten 2 survivors injured, 2 gens completed, and 1 gen nearly complete (>90%). Not much of a difference.
The guy he was chasing also had a medkit, so if he left him alone he would have spent ~15 seconds healing himself, wasting about 40 seconds of his time to gain 15. So likely he would have abandoned chase, found another guy on a gen, injured them in the same time he took to down the first and would end up with 1 injured, 1 freshly healed, 2 gens gone, and one at 90%. So no, abandoning that chase would have been the mistake.
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@AngeloMerte said:
I'm not denying that gens can go fast... BUT dude, he got his first hit at 1:45, that's waaaay to late. What do you expect the other survivors were doing? Memeing in the basement? Ofc gens go fast when you can't apply pressure in the first minute. That's just how dbd is.
And thats the problem. Its so easy for the first survivor to just hold w and waste a good 50 seconds of your time, thats not even factoring in loops or pallets. Now throw in pallet looping and them not taking chances and just throwing the pallet early and you are guaranteed to lose 3 gens in the first chase against a coordinated team.
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@alleycat012 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1463299#Comment_1463299
I get that, but imagine 2 survivors doing nothing but sabotaging hooks while the last one is off repairing gens. They would be coordinated and know where you are headed.
If you literally cant kill survivors through hooks and only have to stop you from getting the magic number of 10, they have nothing to worry about really by buying time.
Your idea is good but it would introduce a new unbalanced meta that would make SWF especially nearly unplayable and result in 0 kills 99% of the time.
If sabo was reworked again somehow and nerfed even harder, your idea might work though.
Sure, 2 survivors can go off doing nothing but saboing hooks, now there are 2 survivors doing gens, only 1 if i chase someone not saboing. On top of that a saboed hook takes 30 seconds to respawn and is limited, toolboxes run out eventually and the cooldown on the perk is long.
I fail to see how my suggestion makes sabotaging any stronger than it currently is.
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@Angelicus23 said:
https://twitter.com/JaneRomero_/status/1285286538360893444?s=19
https://twitter.com/JaneRomero_/status/1285286538360893444?s=19
So here we can see the clip of a normal run where the survivor is getting chased and she decides to go down and get inside again of the asylum, but for her surprise, the killer hits her from one part you normally shouldn't be able to get, and you can't say this could have been countered by looking where the killer was because it's obvious the part you should be looking is at your back where the killer is suposed to be coming for you so you can try to prevent getting shot, you don't have a 360° cam to look everywhere.
Now you can tell me this is just like a tech or a bad design of hitboxes of the wall, but if this was a survivor doing something similar and the killer wasn't a huntress or deathslinger so you wouldn't catch him, that would be called an exploit.
Not really,
It's no different than the tractor tech where you can m1 to get on the hay.Should it be fixed? Probably, but that building is extremely OP anyway, should they ban for it? No.
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@alleycat012 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1463285#Comment_1463285
This is a clever idea but all that would happen is you would see sabo squads every game. SWF would be even more nightmarish than it is now lol.
Sabo is pretty terrible these days, often times i can see someone doing it and if i'm close enough i can get a free hit or trade the down if they insist on it. if i'm close to another hook i can easily go there or i can just drop the survivor and slug, now there are 2 survivors not doing gens.
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@Orion said:
The rules:
- Your idea cannot be based on punishing the killer for being close to the hook, regardless of the conditions you want to impose, since that was already tried and failed.
- Your idea cannot be based on making any sacrificial stage last indefinitely, regardless of the conditions you want to impose, since that was already tried and failed.
- The forum rules.
Enjoy.
Make it so survivors can no longer be removed from the trial permanently from hooks. Increase gen repair times or add an extra gen survivors need to repair. Make it so every time a survivor gets hook it reduces their action speed (gens repairs, heals, cleansing etc.) by 10% (stacking) max 3 stacks. Once the killer has gotten 10 hooks, he can mori every survivor.
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@KRG said:
Title. Why is this allowed? We can't see killers name. Today had a few games with friends where killers automatically leave the lobby and one also left just at the start of the match cuz we put 3 petrified oaks. He said he doesn't want to play against swf. Okay bro, i guess you'll play alone if they remove swf cuz this game would be dead in 1 week. And we are totally chill team, not even that good like people are talking about that bAd sWf.
But without it then i wont be able to dodge an obvious hacker when see someone with legacy and look at their profile and they have played 10 hours of DBD
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@Accullla said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/172228/please-make-early-game-exist-again
This is a cool story, but feels like you've missed out several details maybe because you want to build a specific narrative.
Firstly, reading between the lines it sounds like it took you forever to find your first survivor. You said that no gens were being done, but if that were the case and noone started working as the match began, then they wouldn't have had time to finish the 3 gens in the time it took you to land your first hit. My take from this is that you took a bad patrol route and when returning to your original spawn point found the one guy who wasn't doing gens. If you struggle with finding survivors i strongly suggest using whispers. It's probably the single strongest tracking perk, way better for early game pressure than corrupt.
Secondly, based on the situation you described it sounds like they started holding w as soon as they dropped the pallet. You should observe what the survivor does before mindlessly kicking every single pallet you see. If it's safe and the survivor stays to play it, then kick. If they abandon it, there's no reason for you to kick it, unless you plan to go for a different target right after that. Also, sounds like you broke the pallet on the same side - loop around and push them back to where they came from - you know they've already wasted resources in that direction.
The point is, don't blame the game for your mistakes. Nobody's perfect, but by blaming the game you rob yourself of the opportunity to understand what you did wrong and get better. I know it's easier to chalk it down to "bad map design"; "survivors holding w is OP" or something along those lines, but most of the time people just fail to acknowledge their own shortcomings.
Last bit of advice - try to think for yourself and stop drinking up popular streamer's words like gospel. Doing so is a great way to find excuses for your own mistakes instead of learning from them.
I'll tell you what though, since this damn near happens to me every game the past 2 days, tomorrow when i play i'll record all my games and upload them so you can see what i'm talking about.
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@Customapple0 said:
Think about it from (Solo) survivors perspective. They are against the clock to get the gens done before the killer sacrifices someone.
Now throw in killers that have huge pressure (Freddy, Billy, Nurse, Spirit, Oni) and then it’s literally do the gens or gg.
Freddy's pressure is overrated. His power is basically a worse clown that can teleport to gens.
Billy is getting gutted.
Nurse is still the best killer in the game by far, read my above post doing the math, and it will show you why i'm a nurse main. And is the only one who actually has a chance these days.
Spirit is useless given that sounds are bugged half the time with people randomly getting iron will.
Oni is the only one who actually makes sense on. He loses those 3 gens, but does build up a lot of mid-game pressure. But if survivors play safe and don't try to get extra loops, they can just run from pallet to pallet and make sure he never gets a hit, just throw the pallet early and he won't have his power for most of the game.
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@Accullla said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/172228/please-make-early-game-exist-again
This is a cool story, but feels like you've missed out several details maybe because you want to build a specific narrative.
Firstly, reading between the lines it sounds like it took you forever to find your first survivor. You said that no gens were being done, but if that were the case and noone started working as the match began, then they wouldn't have had time to finish the 3 gens in the time it took you to land your first hit. My take from this is that you took a bad patrol route and when returning to your original spawn point found the one guy who wasn't doing gens. If you struggle with finding survivors i strongly suggest using whispers. It's probably the single strongest tracking perk, way better for early game pressure than corrupt.
Secondly, based on the situation you described it sounds like they started holding w as soon as they dropped the pallet. You should observe what the survivor does before mindlessly kicking every single pallet you see. If it's safe and the survivor stays to play it, then kick. If they abandon it, there's no reason for you to kick it, unless you plan to go for a different target right after that. Also, sounds like you broke the pallet on the same side - loop around and push them back to where they came from - you know they've already wasted resources in that direction.
The point is, don't blame the game for your mistakes. Nobody's perfect, but by blaming the game you rob yourself of the opportunity to understand what you did wrong and get better. I know it's easier to chalk it down to "bad map design"; "survivors holding w is OP" or something along those lines, but most of the time people just fail to acknowledge their own shortcomings.
Last bit of advice - try to think for yourself and stop drinking up popular streamer's words like gospel. Doing so is a great way to find excuses for your own mistakes instead of learning from them.
Bro, i have 1000+ hours, this isn't me asking for advice. Early game is a problem. Everyone knows it. If it wasn't a problem the devs wouIdnt be talking about doing some kind of early game warmup like EGC. I wasn't recording at the time but i wish i was, but i do time my games. It took me 25 seconds to find the first survivor, during that time they weren't doing the gens on my half of the map i spawned at, because they don't spawn there. I patrolled every gen on the map, and not a single one was being done, they were playing immersed, so i loop back around to where i think they spawned, and i find one on a gen.
Within 5 seconds, they waste shack pallet, which is a god pallet. Don't tell me to "wait to see if they play it" its the ######### shack pallet. You have to break it, any moment i waste not breaking it is wasting time, because the instant they see me not breaking it, they can just stand there and do nothing.
They hold w to another safe (certainly not a god pallet) and i did wait a second, i know because they teabagged me. So i broke that one. Then they hold w and run in a straight line, its mother's dwelling after all so there's plenty of room.
There was no "they just held w while i broke the pallet and i didn't wait." There was either no point in waiting (shack pallet) or they ######### teabagged me at the second one. It was literally 25 seconds into the match that i found the first survivor. Keep in mind that this is the biggest map in the game, and takes nearly 40 seconds to cross the entire thing.
This game is a math problem its basic math, you don't need anything else. Lets pretend for a minute that loops, windows and pallets don't exist, and all they do is hold w. Killers and survivors spawn on opposite sides of the map. If every survivor immediately hops on the nearest gen to them the following happens.
Takes 20 seconds to cross the map, lets say maybe it takes survivors 10 seconds to run up to the gen. Now lets do the math.
10 seconds to find the first survivor.
20 seconds for the first hit.
They hold w. Takes 20 seconds to catch up. I know, because it's long enough for bloodlust to start.
Get the down.
Look around to make sure no flashlight/pallet saves coming for about 3 seconds
Pick survivor up 2 seconds
Walk to hook and hooking them 10 seconds.
Now time to add.
10 seconds + 20 seconds + 20 seconds + 3 seconds + 2 seconds + 10 seconds
10 + 20 + 20 + 3 + 2 + 10
50 + 5 + 10 = 65 seconds.
At that point, you got your hook, by the time you figure out where to go next and start walking there. Ding, ding ding. 80 seconds has gone, and so has 3 gens.
Now factor in that looping exists. And that pallets and windows exist. If a survivor gets to an unsafe spot, add another 5-10 seconds to mindgame it.
If it's a safe/god pallet, forget about it, it must be broken and now you need to spend another 25-30 seconds catching up.
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Another match as pig. Crotus Asylum
Spawn in, entire team on 1 gen,
it damn near pops before i get there.
Hit 1 off the gen.
Hit another off the gen.
everyone scatters.
Pick an injured guy to chase. Gets a god loop inside the asylum, (have to loop 3 times to block the window) So i leave him.
move on to uninjured guy walking by, hit him immediately.
He holds w. Loops me around the center building once.
Mindgame, got him. Trap, and hook.
Ding ding
2 gens pop, i hear a guy working on a 3rd, go up and pop it. He drops through and abuses the god loop, so i go back to the hooked guy to catch someone unhooking.
Catch an injured guy unhooking. Trap and hook.
hooked guy removes trap on first box, find another injured guy. He abuses the loop
Ding. another gen. (the original one they spawned on)
Why bother? I landed like 6 hits, got 2 downs and a hook and everyones immediately got their traps off, abusing a god loop in the middle of the map and 2 gens pop as i get the first chase.
PLEASE MAKE EARLY GAME EXIST AGAIN.
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@MusicNerd_TC said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1446406#Comment_1446406
On Ormond, it can be impossible to stop a generator from being done, even if you know where it is.
Same with mother's dwelling.
Just got out of a match, 23 pallets i counted. 8 of them were god pallets.
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@tippy2k2 said:
I just got the Demogorgon and barring a few ######### messaging me about how I'm a high ranked killer but I suck so therefore I must boost or some #########, it's been an interesting few games.
What I want to talk about though is his power, The Surge. For those that don't know...
"Putting a survivor in a dying state with a basic attack causes all generators within a 32 meter radius to instantly explode and regress 8%"
This perk seems super awesome but no one ever seems to use it or even really talk about it and I'm curious why. I've only played the handful of games with Demo so maybe it's one of those perks that seem good until you've used it a few times or maybe there are similar but better perks (I've only been playing a few month so a lot of perks I just don't have unlocked) or maybe just no one likes poor Demo because he's not a Top Tier Killer so everyone has ignored his perks.
What are your thoughts on Surge?
I use it a lot on killers that always down with a basic attack, and even some that don't depending on circumstances.
Generally i'll use it on:
Nurse
Clown
Legion
Wraith
Myers
Ghostface
Deathslinger
I'll also throw it on pig even though she sometimes downs with her power. Generally i only use the power to get the first hit, or to hit the obsession to save STBFL stacks.
On most killers i have been running a build of BBQ + Pop + Surge + Surveillance. Generally you down someone, surge goes off, and if it stays white, you know nobody is there. If it goes yellow, you know someone is there repairing. So you can get a good pop on it. If not BBQ shows you where to take your pop too and now you know exactly when that gen is being worked on.
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@PrettyFaceKate said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1446644#Comment_1446644
BHVR tried to fix camping and tunneling and it didn't work. They abandoned any attempt and since then the official position is that those are intended mechanics because they can be punished by rushing gens when done at the wrong time.
I disagree, especially considering the experience of Deathgarden, but this is how they want their game. So, at the end of day, you have to accept that sometimes you have to play 'unfairly', because that is how the game is intended to work.
They never tried to fix camping or tunneling in a smart way. Like there are some simple design mechanics you can do. Maybe survivors just get a speed boost for 60 seconds after getting unhooked, to discourage you from tunneling. But also during that time, they repair gens much slower.