Raptorrotas
Raptorrotas
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Isnt the skill expression for tunneling "winning a chase twice on the same target" (regardless if there was a different hook, according to some survivors)
So lets punish free choice of target and ddoing the thing survivors deem the best part of the game(chases)? Uh, what?
Failed to hide twice, lost two chases and optionally got unhooked right in the killers face; doesnt sound like a killer skill issue to me.
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I know this dabbles in chances instead of the actual rates and thus is purely theoretical, but remember that we cant just say that a 50% chance to escape is fair. It's more about the chance to win as a killer being the same as for a survivor to win. A survivor wins when they escape and the killer either wins with 4 kills or "3 or more" if you swing that way.
If the escape chance per survivor is x, then the chance for them to be killed is (1-x). A 50% chance to escape would mean a 6.25% ( (1-0.5)⁴ ) chance of a killer win if you only consider 4 kills a win or a 18.75% ( [(1-0.5)³+(1-0.5)⁴] ) if you consider 3+ kills a win.
An equal chance would be ~27.5% if you only deem a 4k a killer win and ~38.2% if you deem 3k+ a win.
Obviously i could be wrong and should have considered survivors as a team but even the game doesnt so why should I?
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I feel like the whole "3v1" argumentation is disengenious. Everyone's treating a removed survivor like the game started as a 3v1, which indeed would be inbalanced. But before getting removed from the game, they already did some stuff or had the possibility to do so. Cant be a 3v1 if the 4th had influenced the trial already, even if its just wasting the killers time by getting chased and killed.
The argument of "too weak and too strong killers" is the same too, because on the survivor side we only get "too weak", and "just right as all survivors should be", atleast according to our community.
Now, I probably should add something less disliked by the survivor community to my reply: This kinda Idea of a Live-Pool was atleast 1 nail in the coffin of Deathgarden. well, the Scavengers instantly respawned instead of crawling around for the whole duration of "X lives", or dangling on a hook like in this proposal. Still, this idea killed the scavenger-scavenger interaction of rescuing from the "hook", making them only focus on doing collecting blood. Translated into DBD, this will make it so survivors will only rush gens till chased themselves even more.
While I won't say the devs will never consider this, Deathgardens development should be taken as an example why this "might" not work.
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Uhm no? Every player is free to do their thing from the start. If we start adding restrictions, they should be on both sides.
Anyone wanna add something to stop survivors from tunneling/ focusing on gens when theres no sacrifice yet?
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3311156#Comment_3311156
The other guy pointed it out, but I will be more specific: how do you not see the contradiction in what you just said? You say that neither side should be balanced around top-level play, yet you fully support nerfing Nurse, whose kill rate is insignificant. She wasn't even top 5 according to the top MMR stats- she clearly is not a problem statistically. Yet because apparently .001% of Nurse players are unstoppable, she needs to be nerfed into the ground. I wish more people would acknowledge this complete double standard.
The community is heavily survivor biased.
- Solo swf gap ( difference is player mentality and software outside the game) : "buff solo to the level of swf."
- Killer tier gap (mechanucally better characters are better than weaker ones, duh): "nerf the top killers."
- " Average survivor is a potato and even most swf are bad" vs "the average nurse is marth level". No one cares for the badplayers playing nurse lol.
- How about focusingobjectives down as a strategy? "Tunnel bad, genrush doesnt exist and if it did its not tunneling"
Of course good/sifficiently prepared players can pull off strategies better than bad player or people who forgot to bring a tool. ("Its not genrushing if i dont bring bnp")
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@Mr_K said:
That didn't last long.
I think i joked about it lasting 2days, it seems i was right.
Nerf nurse threads, roll out! lol
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@Murgleïs said:
As predicted, as long as my girl can blink over pallets, survivors won’t be happy.
Shhh, enjoy the 2 days without nerf nurse threads. Oh wait, already complaints about it not being enough lol.
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@Tsulan said:
This will change little to nothing. Survivors will still complain about her, simply because they can't run her in circles like other killers.
Cant wait for the calm and reasonable survivor crowd to start chanting their Nerf Nurse! mantra in a month again.
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Well if knight had an actually useful ability they might be able to express their skill.
So buff him lol.
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I mean its BBQ with losing tokens again, should be easy to implement lol. It all depends on the actual perk effect base value and scaling per token. Goodboy nice killer perk.
Too weak, killers wont run it. Barely too strong and it'd be gutted like thanatophobia.
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Tunneling is only "easy" against bad survivors. The narrative falls apart once there arw actually good survivors involved.
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Oh please, once icons are implemented permanent bond will be the next big thing to bridge the evergrowing chasm between "solo" and "swf".
You cant solve bad players being bad or hatch-vultures deliberately not helping you by throwing info at them.
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@SmolBlob said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3306645#Comment_3306645
You have it backwards. Nurse is what it should be. Directly rewards skill and outmindgaming the survivor, and not screwed over by dumb RNG. While all killers are viable in basically everything outside of comp, the majority are handicapped and need to go way above and beyond just to achieve the same result. Which is a problem with them, not Nurse. A high skilled killer player SHOULD be a problem for survivors. Just like how good survivors are a problem for killers.
A standard M1 on a long wall jungle gym will never ever have an even starting ground ever against a decent survivor. Likewise, a survivor against a M1 in a complete dead zone will also start way disadvantaged. Regardless of personal skill, the map RNG has played a tremendous factor in how anything will play out there.
Nurse can’t brute force a tile because she can’t just walk up to a survivor, so she has to win a mindgame to land said hit. But on the other hand, she also isn’t auto screwed over just because of a strong tile. It comes down exclusively to mindgaming, which is personal player skill.
It shouldn’t just be "Oh I got to this tile so I’m guaranteed safe for next 30+ seconds" or "This is a dead zone so I auto-go down and I can do nothing about it." The problem is the majority of people don’t know how to play against Nurse, and the game doesn’t give any help really in teaching how to do so.
Community survivor bias in a nutshell:
Buff "soloQ" (survivor, bit often used for "bad players") to "swf" (still survivor, but used for "good players", often with third party voicechat), but nerf top killers down.
Fairness would either be buffing weak killers up to par with strong killers ( the solo-swf mentality) or nerfing the survivor character ( the "nerf nurse despite noobs sucking with her" -mentality). But this community isnt unbiased lol.
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@Little_Kitten said:
I am always surprised that some people are extremely critical of SWFs🤔
Basically, "SWF" is just "having fun with your friends" ... how is having fun with your friends wrong? 🤔
People will tell me: "SWFs are much stronger and/or have an advantage over SoloQs".
Well, in that case, give SoloQs additional ways to get information, in the form of graphical elements included in the HUD 😉
And in this way it will be possible to buff (more or less, depending on the case) some of the weaker killers 😊
And don't forget that SWF =/= power.
If you put in voice 4 people, with the best perks / items / addons / offerings, on Ormond / Garden of Joy ... if they have the level of mastery of a potato ... in voice or not, they will not go far 🤣
And even in teams of 4 that play vocal, it is quite common to find 1 or 2 weak links, which are easier to fall, if necessary 😉
Well, back in the days survivors always told people that comms are only used for smalltalk and offer no advantage ingame. Here we are nowadays with survivors demanding " all the comm advantages be added to basekit".
A single " the killer is in chase" or a hysterical screech of a panicking survivor (for example "arrewwaraghh nooooooooo goooo awaaaaayy, eat bill instead") is enough of a warning for every other survivor that the killer is actually not close and they can focus on gens. Of course this is just a mild example of advantages provided.
Comms arent obviously a cheat that gives 30% movement speed, there are other third party tools for that. But comms are a force multiplier, meaning that better players get better results when using vcomms because they can actually use the info received for strategies while worse players get the info or orders by teamleader, but cant act on it.
As for your jab at the killer balance. Therrs actually no reason to not buff the weaker killers towards the top, regardless of the state of survivors. Unlike on the survivor side, there wouldnt even be a risk to also overbuff the top killers when we buff the bottom killer.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3306556#Comment_3306556
How are the stats misleading? Either she gets kills (like everyone claims) or she doesn´t. Starstruck Nurse that downs everyone at 5 gens (like a video showed) would indicate a high kill rate. But when the other nurse players don´t play optimally, it drags the overall kill rate down. So its actually an exception and/or the survivors playing against her were simply bad. People have been complaining that she´s braindead easy, when she has actually one of the highest skill ceilings.
Remember that nerfing a character when good players stomp with said character is only applicable to killers. Cant be nerfing survivors because good survivors perform well in in groups that may be in voicechat. Also, according to survivors the average nurse is atleast at "marth" level, evidence be damned lol.
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Tunneling is a strategy, it cant be skillless unless you talk about its execution.
Good players on good killers tend to do better in chases and thus can get downs faster, be it on one oe muktiple survivors.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3305706#Comment_3305706
To be fair, matchmaking is horrible (increasingly so since 6.1.0, imo), and if you're a good player matched against a good killer but you draw a potato teammate (or two or three), you really are kind of screwed.
The problem often is that people aren't are that willing (or able) to recognize when it is they who are the potato. Dunning-Kruger effect and all that. A lot of Spider-Man meme style finger pointing.
But yeah, surv main copium comes in layers like an onion, from the often legit (terrible matchmaking) to pathetic straw grasping ("surv requires Omega skill and killer is OP, therefore you suck and I am better than you even though I am dead").
Heh. Im not even contesting that matchmaking just isnt accurate.
But check the forums and notice the usage of "solo" instead of "bad". And that kinda people then turn around and treat nurse like the average nurse skill level is "marth"
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Imagine if killer players were allowed to hide behind their "bad" players; like survivors do behind "solo" they already falsely associate with "bad".
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Such a well formulated argument for nerfs and such a willingness to debate.
Prime example of an anti nurse crusader.
Lol.
Buff weaker killers to nurse level instead. Unlike survivor buffs, its actually possible to buff bad killers without touching good killers.
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So why does nurse have to be changed if we could just ... Buff the actually clunky or "weak" killers?
There was a thread a few days ago, about the theoretical situation that all killers except nurse were buffed to be on blights level. No one there actually thought about the theoretical situation and kept repeating the "lets gut her or break her even more" ideas.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3301961#Comment_3301961
You're forgetting the first rule of the DbD forums: in any imagined scenario, the killer is awful at the game and the survivors are perfect. Many will claim that chasing and downing survivors is this monumental task that should be rewarded with 30+ seconds of game delay on each gen with Eruption.
Not very accurate calling survs perfect or claiming people do if most people urge "poor bad solos" to get buffed.
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Just buff all other killers to her level and compensate survivors somehow.
I mean that logic works for the survivor side, so why wouldnt it here?
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If all killers are campers and tunnelers, how can these perks guarantee a win? 🤔
Guaranteed wins sound too strong, ergo we gotta nerf those perks!
Checkmate survivors, thanks Meg 👌
Naaah just trolling a bit, nice art as always.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3298608#Comment_3298608
You can usually see after 1 survivor die, even with 4 Gens done, the game become downfall for them and the last Gen may not be even complete in the end. I would still do the last Gen if my last teammate is in chase though. But 2 survivors with 2-3 Gens left? Nah.
This game is weird, because 50% chance to win for killers is not equal to 50% escape chance for survivors:
- Many killers only see 4K as winning. Even 3K is a lose
- Which is, they have 4 matches of 4K, and 6 matches of 3K. They killed 34 of 40 survivors in 10 matches, and they still consider they lose 60% of the time. If you know what I mean.
The difference between 3 and 4 is kinda why i said there might be extremly livid debates about it. It's also about the binary nature of survivor ( dead or escaped) and killers variable killcount.
Personally I tend to agree more with the 4k crowd, but if killers think 3 is fine too, good for them, even if the game doesnt give a win-bonus.
My problem probably is that Survivors tell Killers to be happy with doing 75% and then letting the last go. Now, Imagine the outrage if killers decided to start telling survivors to be happy with only doing 6/7 (85.7%) or 5/7 (71.4%) of their objectives. Well, hatch exists so screw survivors doing their objectives or die trying anyways.
It's a weird debacle, how can one make the" chance to escape" for an individual survivor the same as "the chance for 4 (or 3) not to escape"
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While i agree that the solo swf gap needs adressing to a degree, you cant just expect to buff a character because some people just dont wanna learn to play that char.
Because if you do, can we buff nurse too because 70% of her playerbase sucks but wants to perform like pro nurses too? But make sure to add tools the pros can also use. Thats how certain survivors sound yelking at clouds for "solo" buffs.
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@C3Tooth said:
If you think about this.
To achieve 40% escapes (12 killed / 20 survivors ; which mean 3 matches of 2 escape and 2 matches of 1 escape) mean survivors have to complete 5 Gens 60% of the match.
Increase Gen time would just make survivor use more Gen rush build because if not, the Gens will never be done.
If Gens can not be ever done, means only 1 escape through hatch every match.
If every match guarantee 1 escape, why should survivors do Gen? They can just hide and wait until they're the last one alive to get hatch.
As far as I am aware, that has been a popular strategy for a while, "just letting all others die to get hatch". Factually its often the approach of the last two survivors, regardless of generator progress.
I think theres potential for extreme debates concerning the optimal individual escape chance, especially if we want to give killers the same win chance as survivors escape chance, for 50/50 fairness.
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I remember the times when survivors denied the advantages of comms and told everyone its just used to "chat".
Yes, give survivors tools to move info from survivor A to B, but be careful which info you spoonfeed to A. Comms never did magically give the info to A like "free unconditional bond" would do. Also the elusive and never discussed Killer Compensation would need to be... adequate if we gave survivors UI icons ,plus Aura, plus comms, plus chat wheel (people who dont wanna use comms) and optionally a ping tool.
But dont cry if every Killer ability needs to be buffed to the level and blight, thus invalidating yearlong complaints about nurse, lol
Edit: SWF's also partially play differently because they know each other and actually care to help each other, creating a mindset or delusion that it'S suddenly a teamgame and they have to get people beside themselves out the escape line. still only escape score for yourself, not when others get out lol.
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Edit: Deleted
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@Predated said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297242#Comment_3297242
The issue with the shared responsibility argument is that its not really. There isnt any communications, so there is a lot survivors cannot do being blind in the game without it being basically a guess. In SWF, shared responsibility is by far the biggest argument you can make for preventing a tunnel. In soloq, not really the case. In DBD, you'd be surprised how many people are unwilling to tank a hookstate, even though they havent been hooked at all, just to grant some more time for someone who has been tunneled. You need basekit comms for the shared responsibility argument to make full sense.
Hence, the gap between solo-swf being a lot more important. Personally, I dont really see a huge issue with giving aura reading on teammates as a basekit, the other option would be giving something similar to killer instinct and HUD info, which is basically equal info. The only issue I see with it right now, is that it makes a LOT of perks obsolete or a lot less functional(Better Together/Situational Awareness, Empathy, Empathic Connection, Aftercare, Bond, Kindred(kinda), No One Left Behind(kinda), the 2 key addons). All of these are perks that arent used by SWF, because they basically have the same info already. Giving them aura readings, you can see where they are, what they are doing, and guess whether or not they are being chased. The main benefit I can see for SWF is that they can optimize the time needed in meeting up, but overall, that can be mitigated by giving killers Fire-Up as basekit.(also, Blindness magically becomes a lot stronger as survivors start to rely on that aura reading more than gamesense in the long run)
AKA, you can close the gap between SWF and SoloQ relatively easily without really affecting the killerrates. And its a lot easier to buff killers when the gap between soloq and SWF is much smaller.
Besides, there is 1 easy argument to make why its basically impossible to buff killers right now(other than Fire-Up basekit): Nurse exists.
How does nurse's existence make it unable to buff pig? Unlike survivors there's not just the shared basekit on killers. But I've seen another thread of people complaining about nurse even in a theoretical situation in which all other killers were on blight's level; So i dont wanna go in depth here.
I also remember the quote about mistakes being different, especially second chance perks covering said mistakes and 1 killer mistake costing the game.
Also: I'm not surprised survivors play selfish beceause I know thats what the game is about. the few times I played survivor i also did the same. Maybe I was just wrongly associating shared responsibility with my point about survivors being angry at losing a player and suddenly calling it a "unwinnable 3v1" despite the 4th player having played in that trial. But a selfish player not wanting to "tank their healthstates" shouldnt complain about losing a teammate.
As for the swf-solo gap.There are no ingame mechanical differences between solo and swf, this premise is kinda ignored by a lot of people, the devs LITERALLY cannot nerf "swf" without touching "solo" too. They also decided to not ever try to do so.
I think I'm just a salty Killer because some survivors want all that UI-icons or free aura reading in the name of emulating comm's advantage when comms dont even do that stuff that freely. Comms are a tool to be used akin to chat wheels or a ping tool like deathgardens arrows. Survivors should be more honest and say "give me free aura reading additional to the comms-emulation stuff". Or like already said I see them through my bias and theyre already that honest.
@Ryuhi also has some good points in their answer to my post.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3297192#Comment_3297192
The risk is that gens can (and often are) done in the time it takes to tunnel one person out. It's a chicken and egg scenario which you keep trying to only focus on one instead of both. Ironically the best anti-tunnel measure is to be good at looping and wasting the killer's time, as it forces them to either disengage and look for a weaker link or punishes them disproportionately for their sunk cost investment. Time To Down is a built in counter measure in itself, the problem is people are unwilling to take shared responsibility for their shared agency with their teammates, which is in itself a double edged sword. They can be extremely (in)efficient on gens, just like they can be extremely (in)efficient in chase.
You've listed a bunch of things that survivors need because SWFs can exploit that information, and have not offered a single tangible thing that killers need to bring them up to the level of the SWFs that you want solos to merge with. Even just adding time to gens does not provide a realistic degree of benefit, as gen times themselves have far too large of a variation in either direction due to perks/items/etc. Lopsided adjustments like that with a "we'll fix it later" mentality is extremely unhealthy for a pvp environment, you need to take the core issue and focus on resolution for both sides evenly in order to address the opposing sides of arms race scenarios.
I like the argumentation about the shared responsibility. Its funny how everyone is ignoring everything a tunneled/camped out person did before their demise. Like if the game only started with 3 survivors, which isnt what happens when someone gets tunneled out.
The "something" as compensation for solo-swf-gap closing" mentality sadly is strong in our community because nobody knows or can agree to what that something can or should be.
Theres also the issue SWF(strategy, mentality) + Comms(3rd party tool) being untouchable regarding nerfs. Thus we can only buff solo upwards, while many people actively dont want to fairly/equitably apply that logic to the killer side too.
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Great do we get a deterrent to genrushing while theres no hook/kill?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296997#Comment_3296997
But clearly there's a way to do them right, see Huntress. She still has stat-boosting addons but she didn't get them nerfed. She even kept her Exhaustion addon.
Honestly got no idea how that works with the Huntress, havent been to interested/invested in her.
The thing is I acknowledge that I am killer biased. Surely there are ways to get it "right", but what i see as right is not what the "killer shouldnt be strong"-crowd sees as right. When the combination of stat boosting addons are the bvest choice in every situation, then the basekit should maybe be buffed. but then the crowd which complained about the strength of the addons will complain that basekit is now "too overbearing" or "unfun".
I mean this discussion exists because they nerfed "the best balanced killer" suddenly while claiming to like his performance in those nerfnotes.
Im probably just tired of this community demanding the solo-swf gap be closed upwards (which even I agree to*) while simultaneously rallying to nerf all killers above the "just above average"-tier.
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@Omans said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296269#Comment_3296269
"Nurse is only a problem because the low tiers are so much worse than top tiers"
Please tell me you've just been trolling this whole time. That would be so much better than you actually believing what you just wrote.
Amazing as always, lord commander of the anti-nurse crusaders, coming here without argument and choosing to dismiss me in person instead my arguments. Truly astounding you found your way into a nurse related thread where all the nurse
defenderscrusaders flocked to. You can also spare the effort to call me a nurse main or defender, I never played nurse due to hating her fatigue.In your words: lol
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The fate of strong killers lol. Gutted because popular.
- Remove the roar
- Adjust the camera sensitivity at the start?
- Remove the roar
- Better steering?
- Addon rework highly advised.
The problem he had and actually shares with all killers is the fact that " stat boosting addons" are in almost all cases better than conditional or meme addons. Chargespeed, range, cooldown will always be better than some random nonsense. ( see nurse outrage lol)
I'm probably too killer biased to give detailed "balanced" ideas.
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3296385#Comment_3296385
Lol no, these are not comparable at all. You have no other way to dispatch of your opponent in shooters, shooting is the main mechanic other than things like grenades etc.
Your objective in DBD is to prevent gens getting done and kill the survivors... how you do that is up to you.
I see who I play against, I often play with the same people so I know their skill level. But pressure, mindgames and game sense all win games and you can do it without playing in a scummy and unfun way.
People just want to make excuses for their scummy conduct
In CSGO you can also plant / defuse the bomb or rescue the hostages, I dont own GO but i think the VIP may as well just go to the evacuation spot.
BTW the comparison is good. "Dont tunnel but go for 12 hooks" ~ "use a bad pistol instead of AWP bodyshotting."
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Once all Killers are in that "Blight" range of power, she just doesnt stand out enough anymore to warrant changes. Nurse is only a problem because the low tiers are so much worse than top tiers.
We dont need to hammer down the nail sticking out when we pulled the rest up to its height. It's stupid this stupid metaphor doesnt click for Survivor Mainsᵀᵐ when its applied to killers.
@Monlyth said:
110% Killer, one Blink, longer Blink recharge, shorter maximum Blink distance (Nerf the blink distance addons especially). If the ability to phase through walls (Along with anything else a Survivor might normally use to avoid being hit) is core to her kit, fine. But no more double blinks, give Survivors a longer grace period before the next Blink, and its utility for map traversal should be roughly at Wesker's level.
I consider Wesker to be Nurse's concept done right. Fast and nimble, but still has to play by the game's rules in most respects.
"sloggingly braindead follow a survivor and then blink over the pallet they try to drop" . Your idea for a nurse change just describes the Huntress strategy many people loathe: "sloggingly braindead follow a survivor and then chug a hatchet in melee range".
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Aura reading is way more precise than "like omg he standing right there fam,". Comms do not magically instantly show you the killers or your teammates position like auras do. That might actually be one of the reasons the devs are so slow/relucant to add some "changes survivors demand to close the comms-gap which are actually stronger than comms".
Lol i remember the times when survivors feigned ignorance or vehemently denied the advantage of comms instead of demaning that advantage to be made basekit.
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Well, we could simply remove the option of NOT having items in a round. Removing brown items from the bloodweb and giving all survivors a infinitely useable version in the inventory basekit. Technically we could go a step further and remove all different versions of an item and move the lost power into addons: 1 "power/items", multiple addon rarities. This would turn survivor item balancing somewhat similiar to killer addons, except survivors having multiple "powers" which would need to be shown to newbs so they dont get confused at the start.
When survivors have to bring an item into the trial, the trial can be balanced around survivors having items. Obviously, the addon gap would still exist but thats the same on the killer side.
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Swf most oftem means communication tools which arent part of the game. They do get an advantage of it.
I remember when Survivors were defending comms, dismissing it as just using to to talk about "their days, the weather, news or cute boys". But then it swapped from " its not cheating or even advantageous" to "its advantageous, so give it to all survivors"
As for complains about swfs or "swf hate"? Well these complains are about actually good players playing in a good team using comms for good strategies. Of course they get complains by people who lost to such a competent team. People complain about Nurse too although bad nurses ######### suck. The difference is that SWF is nerfproofed because the devs do not want to tweak swf but only "survivor". Its simply a fact SWF is always using "Survivor" or "Solo" as shield.
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Its an acceptable "nice killer" mindset to have.
I personally am not accepting it because many people are forcing it on all killer players, and the game itself doesnt actually reward a "3k win" like it does a "4k" aka real win. A survivor who doesnt escape doesnt get an "escape" reward too, right?
This community is also hypocritically only applying such a... "restricting", for the lack of a better word, win condition only on Killers. No one is telling Survivors to not escape after doing 70-75% of their objectives, right? That'd be "obviously stupid" when applied to survivors. Equally stupid would be to delegate 1 survivor per trial to just off themselves because 3 are enough, afterall Survivors would still try to escape all the time and delegate the 1 enforced loss by "nice survivor mindset" to the other survivors.
Slightly off topic, but Killers apparantly are supposed to hold back till 1 ( or 3 simultaneously) gen gets done. Are any survivors holding back when a killer has 0-1 hooks? Naaah only killers are sweaty tunnelers at 5gens.
I know my opinion might get flak but it's simply not fair to hold the killer to a higher standard than survivors.
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@TWiXT said:
- Add Voice Communication for survivors as a built in feature. Not a perk, not proximity based, and not implemented over services like steam, epic, windows, or whatever, but just a part of the game that is on by default for the survivor players, but gives them the option to mute if certain players are being annoying/toxic over comms. BHVR have been doing everything they can to make perks and adjustments to the base kit for solo queue survivors that will bring them up to par with SWF, but lets be real, the only and fastest way to do that is to give them voice comms. The fact that BHVR have been trying to give them the advantages of voice comms via non-verbal communication through perks, add-ons, and in game mechanics is just frustrating for both solo queue and themselves at this point. After doing this, they'll have to adjust all the perks and mechanics that having voice comms eliminates the need for, and they'll have to buff killers to adjust for advantages of voice comms, but overall this will be the thing that finally puts solo q on equal footing with SWF.
- Remove the "Training Wheels" of DbD after "x" many times encountering a perk or mechanic, but leave people the option to toggle it on or off in their settings. We have more than enough visual and audio queues built into the game via progress bar color, skillcheck windows, that noise and effect when exposed, status effect icons, etc... at some point having the perk icon, and name cluttering up out hud every time it's active against us just feels like condescending coddling. I know when ruin is active just by seeing the gen instantly start regression after I get off of it. I know Coulrophobia Is slowing down Healing progress by the red healing progress bar every time I try to heal in the TR, and I know the Killer is using Perks Like Huntress Lullaby or Dissolution the first time they start working against me. I don't need the perk icon popping up in the lower right, and I don't need the perk name notification cluttering up my screen, there's already more than enough info that's given through visuals and sound effects, or the very nature of the perk. For new players, encountering these for the first 200 or so times may need all that bloated coddling, but for myself, and many of the players who have well earned gamer instincts and can flush out when a killer is using BBQ&Chili without any of that crap telling us, it's insulting. This game is Mature rated for adults, and yet the devs insist on treating its player base like a throng of mentally challenged children. To be fair, with all the juvenile antics on these forums, and overall bratty, entitled, or toxic ways we lambast them over the smallest changes, we may deserve to be treated this way, but the least they could do is give us the option to turn off the training wheels in the settings as a courtesy, so we don't always have to feel like the devs regard us as complete idiots.
- Incentivize going for Hooks over Kills, and Overall Team Performance Rating over Escapes. You want Killers to stop camping and tunneling? give them a reason not to. You want your solo queue teammates to stop Hook suiciding, DC'ing, and intentionally sandbagging you? Give them Motivation to be actual team players. Incentivizing hooks over Kills with an additional BP, XP and Emblem progress bonuses, may be all the motivation killer players need to go after multiple downs and hooks since going only for kills will make ranking and lvl'ing slower for them. Offering similar incentives for how well the team performs in order to maximize everyone's gains, may be all the solo queue survivors need to get their head in the game and cooperate towards the win together. Who knows really? All I know is that, it's at least worth a try.
I agree on 1. and 2. but am not sure on how 3 is gonna play out.
Survivor sure could do with ping tools or a messagewheel to give some basic info relay abilities, or even maybe real comms. But i dont think the game does need to spoonfeed free info via "just give permanent bond to all survs lul", unconditional aura is way more precise than comms ever be.
Your idea of actually customizing the info the survivor has actually shown to him. But remember, Killer basekit and indivual abilities ( more for lower tiers obviously) would need to be adjusted for such a huge change on survivors. And it'd be weird to not buff the killers just because some prosurvivors would turn 20% of the new features off.
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Thats a ragequit.
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Yet here we are again in a thread where the discussion of abolishing a trick to delay a disatvantageous game state is only directed at killers. This community is so anti-killer/pro survivor its not even funny anymore. "Slug to delay hatch bad, 99ing gate good."
Why is noboy ever talking about the 4th survivor not rescuing the 3rd? "Killer not hooking bad, survivor not helping good?"
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@BlightedDolphin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3290123#Comment_3290123
Or maybe this just shows that both Nurse and SWF are overpowered compared to the rest of the killers/soloq and both should be adjusted?
How do you adjust "Survivor" x4 ( optionally + comms) without busting "Survivor" ? The devs probably wont ever make special rules for group play. Conversely, any buff to "Survivor" will also affect SWF, I'm also pretty sure that SWF will utilize any Information buff Survivor will receive better than "solo" can. SWF being stronger than "solo" will always be the case.
As for the Killer side? We obviously could gut the top killers like we always have done, but maybe we should start adjusting killers like we are survivors; by buffing the weaker Killers upwards. Anyone disagreeing with this while wanting the solo-swf gap closed is a hypocrite.
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I laugh at the people claiming a survivor needs to do five gens and open a gate themselves to exit.
In reality they have to outlast 3 others, dont help the 3rd slug on the ground and just hop out the hatch. Or open the gate thats been gratefully been powered for them, skipping 1-5 gens they failed to repair as a team.
What we are talking about survivors as a team escaping? Then they shouldnt have failed to do gens, no?
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Just rework him into the hell ember from IdV lol.
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50% chance at escape are unrealistic if you're trying to go for a "fair" 50/50"concept of giving killers and survivors zhe "same" chance to win. An individual escape is a win for that survivor but a killer needs 3 or 4 kills to win, depending on if you think that not doing all objectives is reaching the goal . Remember survivors are still not judged as a team in the game.
With 50% escape chance would mean 6.25% for a true killer win.
Escapechance: X per survivor
"4k is a win"Killerwinchance (1-X)^4
Ofc you can modify it with giving the last survivor a modified chance with hatch. Set h=0,c=0 if you think the last kill doeant matter because 3k is a win already;
killer win chance: (1-X)^3 * (1-(X*h+c))
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No.
Buff the other killers to her perceived level instead. Afterall thats what the community is all about for survivors.
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@Seraphor said:
The core of the issue here is, you don't deserve to kill 4 survivors, just because you killed the first 3. You haven't earned 4 kills, you earned 3, now you have to earn the 4th on top of that.
The game should not be constructed in a way that the final survivor doesn't have a chance.
Why is only the killer expected to not go for easier choices and earn the goal? Shouldnt survivors be content with what they achieved in atrial too if they failed the gen phase? It seems quite hypocritical, but maybe its just my bias (or the communiity's)
Survivors are literally given up to 6/7 interactions needed to escape ( the 7th) for the collossal work of... being the last man standing. They somehow deserve to escape despite not doing the gens or open the gens? Not to mention the third chance if the hatch gets closed.
Although my opinion differs, I dont think the hatch can change as survivors would potentially go back to stalling games once an escape becomes unlikely.
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Oh if survivors didnt actually wanto to be in the red stain then surely being in the red light would be tenser/scarier, but this implies balance adjustments.
Well this isnt really about "scary", but maybe a lighting/shadow engine like in left 4 dead? Although I'm not sure just making maps darker and giving survivors a toggleable pipboy/chest mounted flashlight and killers a flashlight-red stain/nightvision/killervision is the way to go. But having characters cast a shadow when infront a lightsource might be quite atmospheric.
Weather also can influence a mood, be it fog, wind, rain or thunder.
Music can influence stuff too, compare yet again L4D getting choked by a smoker or hunter to hanging on a hook in dbd. Opening a chest also lacks the epic zelda jingle.