Raptorrotas
Raptorrotas
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Im scared to ask, but how did the community come to the conclzsion that tunneling takes no skill?
Like "winning two chases on the same person" taking no effort?
Or does tunneling now include facecamping? Did they update the definitions again?
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@Sometimes_Sage said:
I love how Dead Hard is a nearly useless perk everyone with two braincells can easily counter, yet somehow sees use in almost every game, especially in high MMR.
I love how Dead Hard has a "counter" and that counter is "always be afraid of Dead Hard, assume everyone uses it, adapt your entire playstyle around it, waste time every single chase, pray that there is no pallet or vault or exit gate or hatch nearby, then you'll have a chance to "counter" it by having the Survivor use it wrong."
I love how Dead Hard 100% invalidates lunges and any power with a wind up.
I love how Dead Hard is justified because of Nurse, yet for some reason nobody campaigns to bring all Killers to Nurse's level, who apparently is the gold standard for balancing.
I'd also love to see what would be gonig on in these forums if any Killer perk would be as strong, oppressive and versatile as Dead Hard.
Im not sure if youre being sarcastic, but regardless:
Your point about the balance is wrong. According to the forums the ideal for survivor balance is to buff sirvivor till it reaches swf, which is never as swf also benefits from these buffs unless the buff is "dbd now has voicechat"
Im pretty sure many people consider the border between B+ and A- the "ideal balanced tier". Spirit still to strong for survivor mains.
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I'd rather have generators be made more "difficult" or engaging to do. Something that actually needs survivor attention than just waiting for a soundclue of skillchecks.
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@DBDVulture said:
-"what are your thoughts?"
There are two fair killers in DBD: Nurse/Blight. What makes them fair?
These two killers have a complete kit.
- They traverse the map quickly at all times (not some of the time)
- They have strong anti loop
- They are lethal in chase.
- Because they have all of the above they generate 4v1 pressure without some silly mechanic like a pig mask or a box.
Let's look at a killer like Trapper. How do you make Trapper no less than 15% weaker than Nurse?
- He needs a way to move faster; in addition all maps would need to be 9000m² or he cant play maps larger than that.
- His traps would need to be far more punishing.
- You would need to Nerf the hell out of Nurse/Blight
- Every killer that isn't Nurse/Blight gets massive buffs
What would each of those look like?
- You could make trapper move at 120% speed. If we did this to all non teleporting/non movement speed killers it would radically change the game. Suddenly you would need to pre-drop against every killer the first time around a loop because the spacing is wrong. Even at 120% speed there is no way in hell you could try to play a giant map vs efficient players.
- Trapper would need to start with 4 traps in hand and the rest would be in the middle of the map in an "X" pattern (not on the map edges #########). Base kit he now has Bloody coil (making his traps injure on disarm) and that effect would be buffed so that disarming a trap while injured gives you a deep wound. New iri coil addons could be something like (pick one) : a) traps cannot be disarmed except by stepping in them; b) the new addon makes traps invisible to survivors except within 1m before you hit the trap effect (they start to "fade" in and become fully visible via a slider transparency effect). Bear traps would need their "2016 Suck in" ability back. In other words the bear trap would have the old bigger hitbox. Purple sack would be reworked to give the killer +2 traps in hand and +1 more trap on the map somewhere near mid (maybe middle of the X).
- The only "buildup" killers in the game should be Nurse/Blight. Nurse starts with 1 blink. Blight starts with 2 charges. Getting a hit with your power or a regular attack gives you +1 blink/ +2 charges. Furthermore Blight loses hug tech (already planned and in the works) and can no longer break pallets with his power. Blight becomes 110% movement speed. Most of Blight's addons get gutted. Alchemist Ring is completely reworked. Adrenaline vial gives -2 charges instead of +2 charges. Compound 21 is completely reworked - maybe to something like you see the aura of any survivor within 6m of your bounce and all survivors see your aura if inside your terror radius). All killers will wipe their weapon after a successful attack (does not include Trickster, Trapper with beartraps, Nemesis zombies and Plague spit). A new animation is added for Huntress when she lands a M2 attack where she juggles a hatchet momentarily. Upon hitting with her power Nurse will wipe her weapon and then go into fatigue.
- Killers that are not Nurse/Blight should get 8 perk slots instead of 4 perk slots. If that is considered too extreme then Deadlock becomes base kit for everyone and a "rollback" effect is added so that completing two generators at the same time rolls one back to 99% with the block effect (perk is reworked to extend the effect by +30 seconds ). Shattered Hope would be reworked if the inferior killers were only getting 2 perk slots. Without the perk the killer can kick totems to break them at any time ; this also extends to boons but the killer has the option to break the bones in a second action after or not. Hexes get reworked so that they can be re-lit unless all bones are destroyed (note that Devour Hope would have its tokens reset when rekindled). Taking the Shattered Hope perk would destroy a survivor's boon perks upon kicking that boon; remove the arua reading nonsense and make that survivor play the rest of the game broken. Brutal Strength is reworked to add: once per 60 seconds your lunge attack will break a dropped pallet. A new perk is added - let's call it entity's insurance : Kicking a generator prevents the generator from being touched for 20 seconds and prevents the "workable" state. Furthermore gens continue to regress while blocked by the killer (would not work for repressed alliance). New Perk is added -Gen hard: once per game you can press "E" on a generator of your choice before it is completed. If that generator is completed it reverts to the "off" state and becomes inert for the rest of the game (cannot be completed). New game rule : Hitting a survivor with an attack (something to make you lose PWYF stacks)
Why would you nerf a killer if the goal is to match all killers to the newly buffed survivor minimum and maximum potential?
Just buff the weaker killers.
It's a laughable notion to recursively buff survivor to match survivor+comms+teamplay ( survivor is part of survivor+comms+teamplay) and then decide to nerf the top killers. Survivors gets their minimum and maximum potential buffed and killer gets the minimum raised but the maximum lowered?
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@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3366917#Comment_3366917
See, and this is the problem why nothing will change for both sides. Since neither one will see the wrong in their doing.
Dunno, after seeing some DH/nurse nerf discussions over the last year i kinda feel there are more reasonable killer-"mains" than survivor-"mains".
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@Zaydin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3365693#Comment_3365693
And how would you buff Killers to compensate for the increased coordination between solo queue survivors?
I'm not versed enough in most killers to give a detailed answer but simply put:
Do something similiar to the survivor side, buff all killers to be on par with the top 7 killers. Focus on rempving jank or clunkyness from their abilities.
Take any tier list of your liking, lets call it old list. Take all C-F tiers and cram them into A-B. A new list of S-F, done after a month of those reworks should fit neatly into the old list's S-B tiers.
And thats being generous to survivors.
Could be saying "do the same as on survivor" and add basekit stuff to buff all killers regardless if it also helps nurses played by giga-pros.
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- Bigger trap radius, survivors can tiptoe around them too easily
- Lesser trap radius or immunuty for trapper.
- Tar addons maybe map specific colors to blend bettet? Or make traps transparent for survivors.
- Maybe give traps the wraith zreatment and make them invisible outside a certain distance, transparent at a middle distance?
- Start some traps armed in places they might get some use.
I once had a hint of a rework for trapper thad made him able to rig some objects with traps or place beatraps on the floor, costing scrap as ammo. But that wouldnt change the core issue of him being setup intense and the traps being of questionable reliability.
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@bunnyfengenthusiast said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3365623#Comment_3365623
Here's the thing, the game is impossible to balance if there's two distinct sides of vastly differing skill. If you balance out the game entirely around solo Q, SWFs will shred through killers. If you balance the game around SWFs, killers will shred solo Q. The first thing to establish is a baseline for performance for the survivor side (regardless of solo Q or SWF); hence the attempts to bring solo Q to the level of a SWF. If it's found after the fact through meta-analysis that killers are underperforming, then killers will receive a blanket buff.
Moreover, I go out of my way to look for SWFs when I play Blight nowadays. Even using no perks (just Shadowborn) and no addons, I can still get 8 hooks (no tunneling off hook and no downing anyone who is still injured) by the time last gen pops. The game really isn't as one-sided as you make it seem to be, unless if you get some atrocious first chase against a 3 man BNP.
The ... recursive problem for a lack of better words is:
"How do you buff [Survivor] to be equal to [Survivor+teamplay+comms]?"
I left out the "bad skill" in the first bracket and the "good skill" n the latter, even though often cited in discussions ( "poor bad solos"), because it'd only make it even more absurd like "buff nurse because im worse with her than supaalf, even though it'd make it easier for him".
Mind you, I'm all for equalizing, but its a slippery slope.
- Do survivors need a realtimeradar/map WITH all objects once seen by any survivor? People on comms can use a clockwise system to emulate a map and can call out object locations.
- Should sirvivors at all times see their auras (bond basekit)? Good players are quite good at describing their location.
- Most additions ive seen are instant and automatic, both of which comms are not.
I thinka quick message system mightve been a less intrusive addition.
If a location ping system were to be added,or similiar to Deathgardens arrows, what do we add to killers because theyd be aura revealed if seen by any 1 survivor.
And while I dont quite want to make this us vs them.... community decision seems to be "base survivor should be whats currently the best of the best" "while killer power level should be somwhere around current B tier"
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Haha.
Nerf nurse and eruption threads were fine, so the DH "spam" surely is acceptable too, else it'd be quitr the hypocrisy.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3362525#Comment_3362525
I swear there is no more demoralizing feeling in DBD than seeing someone SB from miles away and knowing it's gonna take like 30 seconds to catch up
Bonus points for that not even counting as chase.
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3361319#Comment_3361319
I'd rather that addon be basekit tbh
I honestly think addons should be turned into something like true personal perks.
Integrade %-stat boosting addons into basekit, more transformive addons ( Myers' mirrors etc) into alternate abilities ( like survivor items) and turn the rest of the addons into something more like perks.
Although this concept might not mesh well with the current consumable and rarity system. But as it stands now stat boosters will always be prefered to other "meme" addons.
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Vegetable creamy soup is awesome.
And jane shouldnt be complaining when getting NA service *cough*
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@Spare_Them_Mori_Me said:
These DH threads have to make up like 40% of all posts lately.
Oh boy were you by chance not here when nurse nerf was announced, in ptb, and the month afterwards?
- NERF X UNHEALTHY
- HAHAHA suck it X's getting nerfed, cope harder losers
- WAAAAHHHH X not nerfed enough, nerf more.
Its a vicious cycle and strangely it's been more prominently anti-surv this time around.
Normally theres plenty of complains from both sides. Mayve surcivor throats still sore from the nursenerf-campaigning.
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As if the sound occlusion wasnt bad enough. Now lets deafen killers more.
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Isnt it kinda unfair to expect the killer to juggle the survivor hooks to make it "fair" for them while survivors generally finish their gens in one sitting if possible? Even *gasp*
tunnelingfocusing the first gen they spot. -
@Emeal said:
No. dont bring all Exhaustion perks to Dead Hards level, hammer dead hard down instead.
Its funny because thats the common survivor opinion about other killers in comparison to nurse.
It'd be nice if " buff the weaker to match the top" be applied to not only one side.
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3356616#Comment_3356616
Disagree. I think it’s important to have killers that are S tier when learned well; as well as your weaker b, maybe c tier killers that don’t require much learning.
Mhm. yeah your point correct but doesnt have to do with the power levels.
for a game to be balanced the killers all should feel equally powerful. sadly thats only applied to survivors and IF such logic is applied to killers its most often in the reverse direction. It's especially jarring because the difference with solo and swf is team mentality and external voicechat, its the same character.
its like "solo" is getting buffed from an old level of 75% to 90% of "swf"'s 100% potential with new mechanics, regardless if these also buff swfs, but killers get neglected even if they are at 75% of nurse's 100%. I'm not saying those killers gotta reach 100%, but they could be getting closer to 90%. (Disclaimer these numbers are arbitarily chosen and shouldnt be taken at face value). The reality is that nurse's 100% is more likely to be nerfed than others getting buffed to somewhat approach her.
I think the difference between killer-ability-mechanic-tiers is equally important to minimize as the solo-swf gap.
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@HugTechLover said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3355938#Comment_3355938
Too strong to be balanced?? Should we just have no killers that can put up a fight against a good squad of survivors?
It’s crazy you would even say that about spirit too. She’s so weak without addons.
*swipes tear after laughing*
Isnt it adorable that "Survivor with Friends+ third party tools+ skilled players" is the golden balanced spot all "survivor" should be? Then people turn around and say something like "Some B or C tier killer is what all killer should be balanced at"
If the community deems SWF+comms the balance target for Survivor, then theres only one correct answer for this thread:
Nurse. She should be the balance target of all other Killers. No nerfs for her, just buff the other killers already.
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what happened to the gen regression buffs killers received too? oh right reverted lol.
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Chat wheel? Why not. Show perks? If they can make it useful instead of just showing icons? Can be helpful or invoke salt by perk choice.
Im not really a fan of tools to show exact survivor locations or what they pointed at. Reminds me of the arrows used to highlight the hunter in deathgarden. Could be broken info.
I'd be careful with adding stuff "because swf has it". There are groups using a clockwise system to emulate a map and tell each other of certain locations, does that mean survivors need basekit bond and map that shows found objects ( pallets, totems gens etc)? Its a slippery slope of "not enough" when dealing with the gap between game and third party advantages.
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What does nurse's existence have to do with the power levels of other killers? Killers are a mutually exclusive element in this game.
Just do it like its happening on survivor side: just buff the bad killer characters without touching the good ones, unlike survivor side there are actual different characters/abilities to tweak without changing the top 3 or any other killer at all.
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Well we could change "cant do anything" to "can still do everything, but worse"
Like repair, heal, cleanse etc -30% speed; vaulting - x% , pallets take longer to pull down etc. Harder skillchecks and reduced effects of successful ones. (Snapping out or mending might need a different modifier)
Rename to "weakened" or "enfeebled", keep incapacitated for complete disable if some killers still need it.
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Only might work if it also transforms the otger survivors, with something like a madness/paranoia debuff. Abd even then its questionable, because status icons and comms.
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As long its not just "thwacks people with their ponytail" like Shantae does regularily. "Turning hair into a muscle suit to punch people with is more creative lol. (Sorry the babarriccia trial in FFxiv is awesome)
Hair is a horror stable, albeit I only recall japanese examples, but just look at our rin or sadako.
"Much hair" is a good tool as a base for many abilities: make a wall of it, clog up gens or pallets/door/windows. Deathslingers' harpoon mechanic can also be used.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3352178#Comment_3352178
For some reason, killers want to be buffed to equal to swf.
But dont want solo to be buffed to equal swf
Strangely ive seen more killers okay with closing that "bad solo - good swf on comms"-gap than survivors okay with closing the "bad killer(character) - good killer(character)"- by buffing the bad killers.
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3351332#Comment_3351332
66% Gen can be regressed to 0%.
What's option for 2 hooks survivor drop their hook count to 0? Since you making the comparison
Injured survivors can be healed?
Hookstates are kinda more like finished gens, chase/injury/hooktime are repair progress.
But of course its asym and there arent direct equivalents.
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People who want somezhing nerfed most often arent thinking with balance in mind.
Like every nerf nurse concept.
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Isnt the difference that "killer perks no one cant live without" get nerfed/guttered while BT got basekit?
Dont see other survivor players critizing survivors who want old DS back. Shouldnt they also git GUD instead?
It's actually nice youre good enough to not care a good perk gets nerfed but most players might be worse and need the good stuff to keep up.
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@EntitySpawn said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3349555#Comment_3349555
Game has never been a 1v1v1v1 V1. That's stupid dev talk, if that really was the chase you would be judged on chase alone for mmr but that isnt the case.
In a 1v1 the killer is meant to win, it's a 4v1 period. Play as a team to win as a team, you shouldn't win if your team is bad.
If you balance so you can win 2v1 or 3v1 then that makes any time it's a 4v1 way more imbalanced. And let's say we do balance for bad survivors you then have to balance for bad killers too! You cant do double standards but that's not the case at all, nurse got nerfed because she can be strong in the right hands but most nurse players are bad and casual hence her win rate is low, just like survivor its really strong in some hands but that dont mean buff it for the others or so many killers have to be buffed for casual.
I'm sick of double standards of balance for bad survivors but balance for really good killers it's stupid.
I think you mentioned this in this thread already, but its funny how survivors dont realize what crazy buff logic theyre currently getting.
- Buff a character because bad players are worse at using said character than good players that additionally use third party tool for advantages. Its also a perpetual cycle because good players on comms will still be better than bad players
Thats like saying we need to buff the nurse because i suck at her compared to a theoretical marth or supaalf thats also using hacks.
Its also wreird that the whole "closing the gap"-thing isnt applied to the actually different killer characters, but instead we are nerfing the top killers instead of buffing the bad ones. If both sides were actually using the same balance logic, either all killers would need to be buffed to get as close as possible to nurse or we had to nerf the survivor character to push comm users down to the default solo survivors.
As for the whole 4v1 turning into a 3v1 once a survivor dies argumentation... I think people forget that a survivor dying is a part of the game flow and doesnt mean that its now a 3v1, the dead survivor had plenty of chance to leave lasting effects on the trial, be it generator progress or just killer time getting wasted by their death, or a blast mine or coh-boon staying around. Its only a "futile 3v1" if the trial starts with 3 survivor; If a survivor "dies too early", they messed up, which is a skill issue, like as often thrown at killers who mess up too.
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Game would finally need to be balanced around comms. And that means most aspects of the game need to be adjusted.
You wouldnt need to close the soloswfgap with goodies that buff both because it'd be closed with just vc.
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Well good the nurse does average at about 115%.
Which means her blink needs to be strong else her kit is less than the "115% killer without ability".
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Feel free to judge their choice to group up while theyre busy judging the killer's choice of character.
Swf+comms btw arent the default game.
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Time for the good ol' "now if only all killers were as gpood as the good killers, there would be more variety"
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@Quizzy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3344107#Comment_3344107
But dbd isnt a comp game no matter how much u want it to be. It will never be fortnite. It will never be apex legends. The comp scene for dbd will never see traction because this game is literally rng dependent regardless if you have restrictions on perks.
Wow you should pick better examples for shooters if you wanna argue competetiveness only without rng. Random shrinking zone, random weapons....
Now back on topic:
Playing to win is normal, and if you dont want to play to win, dont expect others to have mercy on you.
As for the DBD community i feel the problem here is the "chill crowd" telking everyone to chill too, loudly, often and mostly to killers. When was the last time someone expected a survivor to kist stop trying to escape, be it gate or hatch.
"You did 1.25 gens and 2 chases, stop doing more, frigging tryhard survivors. Always trying to escape" (obviously /s)
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@Adjatha said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3341746#Comment_3341746
"but hard of hearing killers will not receive anything"
Yeah, this. It's all you need to know.
"Here have some loud cgase music to appreciate our chase music instead of being able to locate survivors"
Remember when they addd sound occlusion (or however its called) and now you cant hear gens through windowed wooden walls.
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@C3Tooth said:
I think items should be free but only have 1 version of them, the weakest one. So the furthest gap would be a Brown medkit and a Brown medkit with 16 charge + Styptic.
Currently you cant balance the game between a survivor has no item and the other has a Ranger, 16 charge + styptic
This is a good idea. Turning the consumable items into "survivor abilities" and tweak the remaining addons to adjust the lost potential strength to a new acceptable level. But i dont know which current item combination should be the new base level.
Because then survivors always have an item equipped which can be taken into consideration for balance.
As for the killer side, turn addons into mini perks that dont affect stats like charge time, range etc. Because those stat-stick most often are the bestr choice, which results in them gwetting complained about even if all other addons suck. Lost power during this teansition of addons obviously should be added to basekit to some degree ( somwhere between yellow and yellow+green statboosts lol).
Personally I think some addons like the myers mirror and other gamechangers ( 1 blink 110% nurse etc) should become alternate abilities too.
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@Gandor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3340496#Comment_3340496
Absolutely disagree. The game is designed around FOV. There are very few things survivor can do against stronger killers. One of those very few options is actually abuse their FOV. It's VERY VERY important. Sure not for a low or mid MMR. In those MMR's survivors are just unable to abuse it. But in higher MMR, it's essential to be unpredictable. And this one IS one of the tools.
The game also was designed around survivors having no information. Just saying this argument isnt good anymore.
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@HugTechLover said:
• Blight is one of the most balanced killers in the game. He’s got the perfect basekit and addon spread. Only thing to be looked at is alch ring and c33. Many people on here just don’t like killers that put up a challenge.
• Dead hard as it is is completely fair. It does not need anymore nerfs.
• The game should not be completely balanced across all killers. I think it’s important to have S tier killers and C/D tier killers. I believe it would be boring if each killer had the same potential to kill a survivor, and each game, survivors have the same possible ratio to winning or losing regardless of the killer. Achieving a 4k with Freddy or trapper is much more rewarding than getting a 4k with nurse. And vice versa, you get a much better feeling of escaping vs a nurse or blight vs escaping pretty easily against a trapper. Hot take, but I hope that makes sense.
• BHVR is a really solid game developing company, compared to many that we’ve seen.
if I think of more, I’ll edit.
Edit:
• camping and tunneling are legit ways to play, and should not be nerfed because one side doesn’t like it. Same for gen rush squads and heal squads.
Hahaha your third point hits me straight in the face (have an upvote) because of my personal maybe unpopular opinion:
- If swf (skilled survivor with good use of comms) is what basekit survivor should be, then nurse's powerlevel (as played by skilled players) is what all killers should be at.
Imo tier lists will always exist regardless how strong characters are, but the gap between killer tiers should be lessened by buffing the weaker killers.
- Comnunity is survivor sided. Solobuff to swf level good, nerf top killers.
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@DBDVulture said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3340236#Comment_3340236
-"The devs have stated multiple times they will not balance survivor/sef differently. Because why would they, its the same character"
Did you ever see the video of M. Cote playing in Korea? One of the people on the panel said to him: if you were better at the game then DBD would have better balance. I was implying that there has never been anyone on the dev team who could play both killer and survivor at high MMR and play extremely well.
I am not saying Dwight needs to have a different MMR than Meg.
The best person they ever had on the team that I had spoken to was Horvath (who designed the nurse). He was decent at playing killer but not top notch. Mclean was a step under that - from looking at his live stream. Most of the development team from what I gather plays a step below that (including M. Cote - if you ever watched him play trapper in 2016-18 when he used to stream). If for example you ever watch Almo you will not be blown away by constant 4k's against 5k hour survivors.
This is not a "bash the developer" post. You can verify for yourself how well the team plays when you watch them stream. You will notice a massive difference in effectiveness when compared to "professional" streamers.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3340376#Comment_3340376
Absolutely you can nerf SWF.
Allow no character/perk/item/offering resets. This would 100% stop bully squads. Lock character changes other than costume while in queue. Add hud feature to see perks of team members while in a SWF lobby.
It mightve been my wording and mentioning the steps in the next paragraph, but my post didnt intend to argue with the point of balance being better if they had a decent player on the team. (Thats an nobrainer and shouldnt be contesed by sane people)
You totally needlessy schooled me on the one subject we agree on.😂
Im just saying that currently the devs arent going to nerf swf or make players in a group functionally different from default survivor.
Its not even a problem theyre throwing those "qol" buffs at survivor to equalize survivor with comms, if only they did the same with killers instesd of constantly trimming the top killers and ignoring the rest.
Edit: restricting swf will maybe cause devoted squads to lobbydodge till theyre 4 randoms again. Alternatively If the devs can totally nerf perks because theyre "too good on nurse", then they can also be nerfed if theyre "too good if used x4"
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@Distortion_Enjoyer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3340276#Comment_3340276
The killer not seeing specific information is a balance and a design decision.
Hypocrisy, Survivors werent suppossed to know what each other is doing. Yet here we are with the new ui stuff.
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@DBDVulture said:
Step one: we need a highly skilled killer & survivor player on the dev team.
Step two : the devs need to be willing to nerf the best things in the game such as SWF Nurse and Blight.
Step three : DBD needs innovative ideas to reforge the current meta so that tunneling gens/survivors is not how every game plays out.
The devs have stated multiple times they will not balance survivor/sef differently. Because why would they, its the same character, but different mindsets and extrrnal tools.
So step two is utter fantasy as survivors are currently being buffed because ("survivor + stuff devs have no control") > "survivor", and nurse was just nerfed. Meaning Your step is only applied to one team.
Your step three sadly reminds me of Deathgardens brilliant idea to remove the bloodpost and use a lifepool for the scavengers, resulting in them ignoring kills and rushing their objective even more. (Imo one of the bigger balance fails that ended the game)
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@Blueberry said:
We need less nerfing of popular perks and more buffing of all the bad perks.
Well i sure hope they do this for both teams.
On the character balancing theyre only doing that for survivors.
But lets stay positive.
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A) dont give bp for messing up or I will demand killers be given bp for missed attacks "for giving a chance" and bp for escaped survivors.
B) does anything in the game treat survivors as a team? No score for making sure others get out. Currently zeamply, despite swf, is still optional.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3338246#Comment_3338246
"Survivors' POV messes the whole balancing, because it doesn't matter 3 people died, as long as I am out I feel like I won. Rather than a 4 vs 1 it feels like a 4 (1, 1, 1, 1) vs 1."
This is exactly why the game has the balance problems that it does. It is a 4v1 and should be balanced as a 4v1 in order to be in fact balanced, but it's currently "balanced" as a 4v1,1,1,1. As you mentioned, balancing this way generally speaking makes everyone feel like a winner, but completely throws balance out the window as you're making 1 of the 4 be able to stand toe to toe with the killer unreasonably for their experience to be more enjoyable.
This is the difficulty of balancing an asymmetrical game. The balancing required to have actual good balance hinders the enjoyment of the individuals in the 4.
Personally i feel the current balance should be:
Chance to 3k or 4k = chance for survivor to escape
Afterall currently soli is the default and sef plus thirdparty comms is ez mode. Its swf that distorts the survivor pov.
Once the game is tweaked to treat survivors as a team and actively scores them so (easist example escape bonus score depending on survivor esxapes instead of just your own., etc)
Chance to 3k or 4k = chance for 3 or 4 escapes.
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Hey definitely could improve the scratchmarks, fov and stop giving sleeping pills to crows.
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Haha I'd be surprised if there wasnt an overlap in "most banned" and "most hated by survivors because we all know nurse would be no1 on both lists.
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@Piruluk said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3337291#Comment_3337291
Exactly.
The rest of killer roster are underpowered, especially the m1 killers( sorry but I think Freddy is really weak) , but BHVR can't buff them as long as Blight and Nurse are around, because any buff would make those 2 even stronger.
Might I ask how buffing the abilities of other Killers would affect Nurse or Blight? With actually mutually exclusive abilities?
Unlike survivor and swf, you can actually buff Pig and it wont affect the other 29 killers at all.
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Its funny when the killer's own skill is ignored in such discussions. "Good nurses and blights roflstomp bad survivor players" would be more accurate to say.
Now just for fun applying current survivor logic and trends to the killer side these two arent in need to be tweaed but their power level is what the other killers should be buffed to. Bonus point: by survivor-swf-gap-logic we should need to buff nurse because I'm a bad nurse and cant perform like supaalf, so she needs to be buffed so i can perform like him.
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Now personally I think the chance for the killer to win should be the same as for a survivor to win.
But we gotta specify a) what a win is for both sides and and how you wanna correlate the equal chance. Do we weigh 1 killer vs a single survivor or against a team? The bloodpoint scoring currently seems to point more towards the former.
- Killer win ( 3 or 4 kills) chance vs a survivor win chance ( survivor escapes) ( "5 players with the same chance to win each")
- Killer win ( 3 or 4 kills) vs survivor team win (3-4) escapes with a 2 being a draw, which unlike IdV isnt acknowledged by the game at all.
I had a forumla/equation to broadly get some number down for the 1. idea but someone shot it down as wrong so i cant really give a real number.
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Theres no reason to do gens at 0 hooks, which is what most people who genrush do despite playing in a swf on comms .
If survivors only ever took a step back and look at all that hypocrisy they keep repeating.
On topic:
"Tunneling" most often means "i got found twice and i dont like it". Survivors play a game in which they can be permanently killed and expect not to be killed asap. They even say weird stuff like "i didnt get to play the game" when they fail to hide and evade the killer and then get killed. Imagine people in CS:Go going full "i didnt get to cross the road, why you snipe me?".