Raptorrotas
Raptorrotas
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The outlier grab is the vault grab which is the only injured only grab, any other grab is performed regardless of survivor state.
So for consistency's sake all grabs shoild be performable at any given time.
But for survivors who dont wanna hear it theres always the IdentityV alternative of just making survivors exposed during all actions....
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How about just ending the game if all survivors are incapacitated? Add a "can get up"-chck or whatever. Or make it a vote.
Give killer full sacrifice score or not.
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Going by survivor-swf logic, for fairness' sake:
Is wraith as good as nurse/blight/current "top killer in need of nerfs" of the month? No so he's a bad killer and in serious needs of buffs to bring him on par with the top killer.
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Well if chase music only was the only thing devouring sound effects. A single wall silences generators lol.
Whenever the devs touch the general sound setting, they make it like 10-20% worse for killers.
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@Bane_of_Games said:
The game already does "penalize" killers for hook camping. It's just that it does so by deducting points toward your Chaser emblem. And let's face it, if you're facecamping, you probably don't care too much about your Chaser emblem. It's something that feels really bad for Survivors and lets the killer feel like they have a chance. Do they need to do it? Usually no, but Surivors also don't have to efficency the fun out of the game by tunneling the gens so hard that 3 gens are done at the end of the first chase and the gates are powered at the end of the second.
Striving to make the experience fun for everyone is admirable. If that's how you have fun, by all means, keep doing it. Personally, my favorite games are when I 4k-without-killing-anyone by 2 hooking everyone, bringing each to the their death hook, smaking it and then droping them. But tell me this; how often are Survivors told that they should make sure to give the killer a kill when they 4 man out so the killer can have fun too? Why is it only the killers job to make sure everyone has a good time? They seem to have more power over it, but I'd advocate that if killers are supposed to make sure the survivors have fun, the survivors should also make sure the killer has fun. Is it fun for the killer to watch all 4 survivors teabag their way out the gates?
Funnily you point about the last survivor giving a pity kill is also pushing this forced empathy on the last survivor. Its not fair for that one too. We gotta adress the individual survivor, not just the team. Because there would be survivors who'd just let all other survivors be the "nice and fair" all the times.
If survivors were asked to play like they want killers to, all games would need to end in a 4k because survivors should be happy with doing 1-2 generators, maybe a chest and then just stop trying to escape and give the killer the kill.
If the last paragraph sounds stupid then it only shows what survivors are demanding also is.
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@C3Tooth said:
Ugh....the urge to post alot of drawings.
I'm not sure if it already exists, but how about "stupid sexy flanders" with a survivor and PH butt? Or any other killer of your preference 🤔
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@notyarbllewe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3420105#Comment_3420105
Okay, I can't see my comment so I'm not sure if I actually posted it or not (so sorry if I am just repeating it now), but there is just a lot of balancing the devs need to do; definitely maps. And yeah, there are too many tryhards on both sides, and they'd definitely disagree with me to actually balance their extremely strong items or add-ons, like Brand New Parts, Syringes, the Alchemist Ring, and the Tombstone Piece.
I just hope that people learn to play for fun rather than just to win; it is not healthy for people to play games to just competetively win, as it makes them angry when losing, and that only hurts them mentally as well as ruins the game for those they face.
A) i wrote to make items mandatory like killer abilities, so that survs can be balanced around always starting a trial with an item.
B) dont push your personally chosen restrictions onto an enemy if youre unwilling to follow them yourself. If you do as you preach you'd be fine with losing to a tryhard killer cuz you wouldnt want to try to escape yourself, chillax dude, why youre such a tryhard to escape bro just go for a gen and then twiddle your thumbs, you did your part by showing up.
I do hope its noticeable that B) went into sarcasm hard.
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I'd say balancing the maps would solve the offering problem, but thats an iffy topic. Devs cant seem to get it right and keep releasing maps swinging too far into the extremes.
As for items? Ooh boy thats a door you'd think you didnt wanna open. Opinions are gonna be split. Even on the "survivor weak,all killer op" crowd.
Personally.... I think survivors shouldnt be able to not bring an item. Its the same as with the comms problem, cant balance survivors between having it or not. Remove all rarity items, put lost power into nasekit izem and addons.
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Is getting help by another survivor really that rare?
I wish killers were this supported by the community in asking for good perks basekit or buffs to weak killers, lol.
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Totally agree.
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I'd rather have useable addons than 3 bad addons. Which would happen as stacking 3 good adddons would get those nerfed rather quickly.
I'd say we just get rid of all those +%-statusboosts, Make some/most/all of those lost potential stats basekit and rework the remaining addons to be mini-perks.
Addons which modify the ability strongly, like 1 blink nurse, myers mirrors or speed limiters/padded jaws should be turned into alternative abilities.
Obviously the new addons would need to work with all alternative abilities.
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@drsoontm said:
Survivors win when 3 escape or more.
Killers win when there are 3 kills or more.
That should not be too difficult a concept.
Wrong. 3 sirvivors win, 1 loses.
Unlike Identity V there is no team victory mechanic ( that game gives 30% extra points for 3+ escapes or kills)
@Agent_Himbo said:
Stop telling tunneled and facecamped players to just be happy they bought 3 random strangers time. They won the game at your expense, you get no reward, you're not given some medal for looping the killer for 5 gens but dying to NOED, BHVR doesn't send you a pony because you sat there being held hostage while a face camping Bubba stared into your soul.
I'm sorry you're so bad at the game the only way you have of winning is to take advantage a teammate is being tunneled and that's why you got a free escape, it's beyond disgusting to tell the player that got a loss, barely any bloodpoints and had a bad time to just be happy that You escaped.
If you think people play videogames to see random strangers win and get a defeat screen, then why don't you play killer and let all 4 survivors escape all the time? Oh right, literally nobody tells killers to enjoy losing because 4 random strangers won, nobody tells the crying baby killer to take pleasure on the wins of random strangers.
I don't play videogames so other people win while I lose, i don't live vicariously through other people's victories, i feel bad for people who do.
I'd like to point out something about Op's point about killers not getting told to enjoy losing.
"Be happy with 3k and dont even try for 4k you sweaty tryhard" is like one of the ten commandments of this community. EVERY ######### KILLER gets told to not go for the full kills.
You think its bad to be told that your death mighrve helped the others escape? Now imagine if everyone, even other survs would pressure you into accepting to deliberately not going for an escape afzer you did 1.2 gens.
Your gripe with dying is legit, no objections on my side. But the community wants to treat survivors as a team, for various reasons.
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@AVoiceOfReason said:
I never thought I would see the day when Blight was OP lmao.
Lets hope there wont be mass spammed nerf blight threads. Theyre not as alliteratively pleasing as the nerf nurse ones lol.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3411634#Comment_3411634
The HUD changes were added so solos weren't at a full disadvantage than people playing together on comms. Being on comms is still stronger, but not as much so.
A killer has yet to be nerfed over a single player being too good at them.
I probably shouldve mentioned i dont mean the current blight streak or whoever individual when I said outlier.
I mean the narrative that [Top killer name] is too strong and needs to be nerfed.
Please, dont say that solo was disadvantaged. That sounds like comms are the default. Comms ate a borderline cheat in a game thats designed arround no comms. Else comms would be ingame.
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@Crowman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3411600#Comment_3411600
Good players are not an issue that must be fixed with balance changes. No one should be making balance changes based on outliers.
Well survivor gets "QoL" changes/biffs because bad players are worse than good players in teams and using comms. Cant wait for "not enough" to kick in and sirvivors getting a radar or aura reading because good players are emulating it with (non ingame) comms.
On the killer side, outliers are instantly deemed to be nerfed instead of target of balance.
Swf + comms performs above whazs possible with ingame tools: community declares "all survivors should be that lebel".
Community choosrs a top killer of the month and rallies to nerf them down, then look for the next, repeat.
Nothing is stopping the devs to just try to buff the weaker killers up. Afterall its been stated they got leeway for buffs as "nurse and blight are performing sooo muuuuch beeeetttterrrrrr".
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@Coffeecrashing said:
What challenge do you have for survivors, where they get to make bad game decisions that lower their win rates, so the games are more fun for killers?
Or is this another double standard, where killers are should make bad game decisions for the sake of survivors, but survivors can do whatever they want?
Definitely the double standard.
Thread premise is about "wins", then talks soley about more than 2 kills being sweaty.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3410700#Comment_3410700
It's a shame people think so little of SoloQ players. You don't need comms to with with COH. I'm sorry but I just don't agree it's totally useless.
I also don't know why people keep jumping on my saying "Well there are better perks/combos". I'm not making that claim. I can still think a perk has its uses while still acknowledging there are better options.
I just seems on this forum, unless you say exactly what people want to her (In this case "Yes, COH is now dog ######### and can not be worked with outside of a SWF (if that)") they ######### all over what you have to say.
P.S. I'm a unwell grumpy old man today sorry.
It's weird to see people treat survivors differently depending if theyre in a group/on comms.
Now this might be my bias speaking but "solo" is often used to shield "swf" from nerfs. In context solo is also used synonymously for bad players.
As for thread question?
"If we nerf survivor because good players are too good with that character, the bad players suffer".
When theorycrafting nerfing killers here, this gets ignored because killers "can just swap characters".
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@Reinami said:
If this and supaalf are a problem, then you feel this game should be balanced around the top level players. So then why is this possible?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dtENJZ_z0zw&t=1s
So either:
1) This game should be balanced around top players, and we should nerf blight because of what you pointed out, AND ALSO, we should heavily nerf survivors because of the team i linked just now.
2) This game should be balanced around average level players, and blight is fine and also nurse needs a buff because she is by far the killer with the lowest kill rate in the game.
So which is it? If this blight is a problem, so are these survivors.
:"Buff character because bad players are worse than good players who also efficiently use third party tools on that same character". Only for survivor side lol.
Our community may not be just survivor mains but surely it is survivor biased.
On survivor side the outliers ( "seal team six on comms") are whst commonly agrred upon should be available to all players.
On killer side the outliers need to be hammered down. See the permanence of "nerf top killers" threads.
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Identity V has those and they work quite well. A single "focus repairs" can also be used as " Im camped" if used by a hooked survivor. The devs would need to be careful not to bloat that menu.
Its one of those fatures that would actually close the comms gap without also buffing the comms users.
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Well, just to nitpick, the "injured only" vault grabs are the outlier to the other "get caught during any action"-grabs.
For consistency, vault grabs should be performable on healthy survivors.
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@DaddyMyers_Mori said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3406272#Comment_3406272
Shared pool of hooks is terrible idea.
It's buff for SWF, sucks for soloQ. Do you really want one troll waste your hook states? I don't.
Unbreakable basekit went to hell. It was just attempt, but it didn't go well. They tried it along auto Mori system to balance it. Both were bad with mostly negative feedback.
Your issue is that you can't really straight nerf tunneling without buffing different aspects for killers.
Thing is: what alternative strategies do survivors enjoy?
3-gen? Nope
Camping? Super nope
End-game build? Nope
Tunneling? Nope
Hit&run (Legion)? Nope
Stacking slowdown? Nope
All those were nerfed, except tunneling. That's why you see it used that much.
Well, hit&run was buffed, but that's killer specific playstyle.
Only acceptable way for them is basically going for 12 hooks, but there is no way to balance around that. It's not possible. There was time when lot of killer did it and it was during BBQ, Ruin, Pop builds. It actually encouraged killers to leave hook.
All three were nerfed. There is simply not reason to go for different survivors, if you want to win.
Issue is that it's so hard to change killers overall when you have Nurse/Blight/Spirit on one end and Trapper/Pig/Myers on other.
It's also hard to change survivors when you have SWF on one end and soloQ on other.
Lots of good points. Lives pool just makes survivors ignore killed people and rush objectives, afterall theres X lives left. ( happened in Deathgarden too)
Personally i cant wrap my head around the "cant buff weak killer because good killer exists" narrative. It's funny that killers get refered to as a singular character and solo/swf as seperate.
Buffs to survivor will affects survivors n all team dizes.
Tweaking pigs eye-height in couch will... affect only pig.
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I wish people would apply all that "nerf top characters on x side" -energy to the whole game.
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Is there a Meg version for survivor second chance perks too or is this another peer pressure rhetoric against killers? It's also subtly implying that certain tactics are "bad". /s
Edit: Make her wear a headset for obvious reasons in "mmr boosting advantages".
Its surely appening on both sides but excuse my bias, it does feel like there are more complaints about killers doing it.
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Why do survivors sit on a gen before the first hook or sacrifice? As long as possible on the same gen? Dont they know its bad manners to do your objectives too efficiently? Afterall theyre always preaching it to killers.
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So Suupaalf etc can be cited when arguing for nerfing nurse but those guys arent an argument for tweaking survivors?
Double standard or am i just being a killermain? Lol.
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Well it depends if you judge the game for survivors individually or as team.
Either the winchance for each survivor is equal to the killers chance to win. Or the survivor team's chance is equal to the killers chance to win.
- Survivor escape chance = Killer chance to 3k or 4k. ( community normally agrees >2kills is the killer win)
- for tthe team based version it's the Chance for >2 escapes = chance for >2 kills.
The current judging system in dbd trends more to the latter, while IDV as example gives a 30% point bonus to the side with >2 escapes or kills.
Theres probably some stochastic stuff to get the detailed numbers. Too lazy to solve currently. E is the escape chance, K is the killchance, per survivor.
For the solo judging: E = 4EK³+K⁴
For the teambased: E⁴+4E³K = 4EK³+K⁴
E+K = 1 ( chance to escape plus chance to die is 100%)
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Disregarding what actually is happening in trial, wouldnt fairness be both sides having about the same winchance?
Its one of these kinda scenarios:
- Team-oriented: Chance for >2 kills = Chance for >2 escapes.
- Sole survivor oriented: Chance for >2 kills = chance for a survivor to escape.
IDV would tend to the first, current dbd to the latter, according to scoring etc.
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@Mooks said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3398572#Comment_3398572
How is that a double standard?
a 33% done gen can regress to 0%. A survivor with a hook state will have the hook state for the rest of the match.
sorry, getting genrushed is frustrating on the killers side, but it’s not directly comparable to tunneling, this is an asymmetrical game..
but i do agree with the statement that some people don’t recognize being hypocrites.
An injured survivor can be healed but a finished generator is done for good. 🤔
/s
It'd be probably better to compare finished gens with hookstates and kills wirh escapes. Atleast when comparing killer to individual survivor gameplay. Although, as you said, asym game, so game progression obviously differs.
Dismissing the 33% gen example proves a double standard for the choice of target. This concerns camping and tunneling.
Telling survivors to not focus down the same gen is nonsense, yet killers are told not to focus one survivor.
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Look at the reactions when killers use the example of "do a gen till 33%, then find another" or variants of those. Nobody is willing to put away the double standard, and in some cases dont even recognite theyre being hypocrites.
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Wait killer cannot do ######### for 60 seconds, not even pick up the survivor that was unhooked in his face, for the vile act of hitting the survivor that he hit and hooked just before? And a generator gets done? It better be the one with the most progress on it....
This is so unbelievably unbalanced survivorsided abuseable bullshit. Survivors call everything tunneling! How the ######### are devs supposed to get a condition coded that'll please the crowd?
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Hey dont you know survivors totally need swf comm cheats basekit? BT basekit?
Survivor favoritism denial and a alot of hypocrisy as always lol.
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"Survivor needs all those swf comm third party tool advantages basekit", "EWW NO FOV SLIDER".
lol.
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The thing you differentiate as "solo" and "swf" is still the same character and the devs have been cited here to not want to change that. Thus every change to "survivor" in the name of buffing " solo" will also buff "swf".
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Well they can't nerf swf because technically it doesnt even give game mechanical advantages.
- Comms
- Willigness to actually be a team
Not in the game but third party tools and player mentality.
There's simply no distinction between "solo" and swf. Thats why the solo swf gap stuff debate is kinda a perpetual problem and quite a slippery slope.
- "Survivor < Survivor with teamplay and comms."
- "Buff Survivor to match up then"
- Go back to 1. Because "Survivor+mechanics < Sirvivor+mechanics with teamplay and comms."
- Repeat.
Additionally i remember the devs being cited for explicitely not wanting to differentiate between survivor and survivor with friends.
Slightly off topic:
The sister-problem with solo/swf v lowtier/hightierkiller is that somehow the ideal balance for sirvivor is "cheating" survivors stronger than whats the most powerful possible with game mechanics while the killers have their proper balance, according to community, at B+ tier. Rant over.
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Ive watched some streamers play the beta/demo .ä, but didnt yet get the chance to try after launch.
The players quickly found out how to make annoying killboxes around the genmat. Like pick up the stuff and get shot from every direction instantly.
The timed shelf-life of your created levels also lend itself to spamming loveless creations.
You might wanna check out the MYM-area of this forum for more recent opinions.
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Why does everyone use "soloq" synonymous for "bad"?
Just say it.
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Never played dbd mobile but ive seen a clip of a skillcheck.
That UI for the check looked like ripped right out of Identity V. Visual TR, quick message menu, they mightve used that game as framework.
Or Im just paranoid lol
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@Pulsar said:
I think it's too late to change the win condition.
People have got it in their heads that a 4K is a win. It will be difficult to change that.
Its been pretty much cemented in this community that a killers win is >2 kills. A 4k is pretty much getting a 100%. Best outcome.
People also tend to get rather stubborn when constantly being told "3 is enough, dont do more or else you're a sweaty tryhard". Its like telling survivors to just like stop trying to escape.
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3388122#Comment_3388122
It is not valid and you have provided no argument to say that it is. Especially when you saying "no one ie saying you have to..." when this forum has posts made daily whining about camping, tunnelling, and slugging. Killers are absolutely told not to do these things, and are called names if they do.
The number of gens does not matter.
Im amazed so many people buy that 5gens argument.
Its jarring especially when combined with the good ol' "didnt play the game", like @Mane did.
Survivors dont have an arbitarily chosen time limit theyre entitled to "play the game". Getting chased and failing to escape still is playing the game. Additionally it's disengenious to ignore the stuff a survivor mightve done before getting found by the big bad camper.
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@Tostapane said:
The problem is that this perk needed A COMPLETE REWORK, not a nerf.
Even nerfed this perk maintain all the issues that this perk could bring.
So no, i'm not satysfied at all by this nerf since this perk should have never been existed in the 1st place
Well to be fair, when people normally talk about reworks in this game, they usually mean nerfs.
(See discussions about killer stuff, especially top killers lol)
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@Brimp said:
From what I heard it turned into quite the opposite where a single one of the runners could 1v1 the killer.
Fr real.
Once they turned individual lifes onto a pool the scavengers lost any motivation to do anything but rush collecting and depositing the blood.
Why go help the buddy if they can respawn 5 times anyways?
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Its funny how our survivor community both wants the advantages of swf+comms in solo but without the actual comms.
Gotta have all those instaneous UI widgets instead of actively using comms. Plus swf still being able to use comms to be even more precise.
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@Coffeecrashing said:
The actual problem is we don't know if the visual terror radius will respect loud noises like generators. If the visual terror radius literally pops up whenever a survivor is in an active terror radius or lullaby, then it's absolutely a buff.
If the visual terror radius only pops up if the survivor could realistically be expected to hear the terror radius (or lullaby) noises over the loud generator noises, then it will be fine. But I can tell you right now, that if I'm working on a generator, and there are far way faint terror radius noises, that I can't hear them over the generator noises. And if I get a visual terror radius, when I can't hear terror radius noises, then the visual terror radius is a buff.
Its funny/sad how your valid criticism gets shot down immediately.
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Ohhhhhh.
I laughed when the Mario Party comparisons were more common a few years back. Ever seen a kid bruise their root of the thumb bloody for spinning that N64 analog stick?
I do.
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@Caiman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3378771#Comment_3378771
Better yet, where's the killer perk that every survivor must be paranoid about encountering the entire match in every single match they play, and actively skews their playstyle because they have to be constantly prepared to play around it?
Well i remember there being some grievances about Noed.
But despite all the uproar and nerf-threads survivors didnt simply... play gainst it but kept getting "surprised" by it despite the claims it being in every trial.
The funniest complains were those that cited the games in which it didnt even activate.
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Well its complex.
The killer chance to win (>2 kills) should be equal to either
- A survivors chance to escape (individual focus like current game)
- The survivor team chance to get >2 escapes ("survivors are a team")
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3377461#Comment_3377461
Survivors are content with 40% escape rate.
Killers are the one that not satisfied with 60% kill rate.
No survivor asking for 4 escapes match all the time. They want half a match that they can escape. It would the same as Killers would want half of survivors they can kill. Which, return to the quote: Killers are the one that not satisfied with 60% kill rate.
Wait 40% is okay? I faintly remember there being an outrage when the official number was ~39%.
Well not that i have any clue myself, but what would you consider more "correct" ( tchnically they both could be):
- A fair game would be: Killer player win chance (chance for >2 kills) = survivor player win chance (each individual survivor chance to escape)
- Fair would be: Killer player win chance (chance for >2 kills) = survivor team win chance (chance for >2 escapes)
Its quite hard to pinpoint what a fair 50:50 is supposed to be in this game . Especially since we cant decide if survivors are a team or what a killer win is lol. Because according to community killing half the survivors isnt even a win for killers. While 2 escapes either means a draw or 2 survivors winning.
Im currently too tired and probably salty to try such math riddles lol.
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@C3Tooth said:
Killers with 3K every match is viable too, not just Killers with 4K every match.
Whats your opinion on buffing a character so that said character can compete with other characters versus buffing a character so noobs feel confortable on said character despite good players dominating with that character?
That said us vs them us vs them: why dont survivors just stop going for escapes and play for fun? Whys it so important that they escape? Just give up and let the killer get you!!!!!! - thats what the "dont go for 4k"-crowd sounds like.
Edit : ignore my rambling.
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@Entitled_survivor said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3376550#Comment_3376550
Lets not act like tunneling a person off the hook takes a decent amount of skill 😂 you already deny them their 1 health state because they start injured
@Desteriaa said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3376550#Comment_3376550
It doesn’t take any skill 😂… you won the second chase on someone who was vulnerable.. skill issue
Apprarantly survivors still have a skill issue with unhooking right infront of a camping killer who already proved more skilled than the survivor chased, twice.
Your skill issue seems to be more with facecamping and its consequences than answering my question how "winning a chase against survivor, twice" is considered skillless behaviour.
Good day to you and thanks for proving me survivors fuddling definitions again.
Oh and a survivors health state upon getting chased again is yet again, skill issue and failure on their part to get healed before running into the red stain like a blinded deer.
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You're right!!!
Buffing a character because bad players cant keep up with good players on that character is such a survivor thing to do, definitely not applicable to killers.
*long sigh*
Unlike with the swf-solo relationship we actually can tweak the weaker killers' abilities without touching any other killer. Making pig not suck wont make nurse overbearing.