Pulsar
Pulsar
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3634849#Comment_3634849
But isn't that the current power dynamic with tunneling? Average survivors and killers might be even in power rn with tunneling, but if you take that away, thus nerfing killers as a whole, wouldn't it just favor survivors everywhere but low level play?
And what would happen to higher levels where it already favors survivors even with tunneling? They'd just get even stronger.
No?
People tunnel and raise their MMR until they start getting beat down by teams that are actually good, then they come crying for nerfs because tunneling carried them past their actual skill level.
It's possible to counter tunneling if you're good enough, but it takes a hell of a lot more skill to counter it than it does to perform it
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@Leachy_Jr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3634675#Comment_3634675
YES thats me and #1 pre nerf COH hater. MFT is why I started maining SM in the first place.
MFT is significantly different to SMs haste since she doesn't have it permanently, and is instead reliant on good drone positions and survivors messing up to get it temporaily. And despite the haste effects she gains she's still very much loopable if you know what you're doing and outplay her.
You are rewarded for playing well as SM and punished for playing bad on survivor. Idk chief that looks like pretty good killer design to me.
The hypocrisy is genuinely enjoyable, please continue.
The extremely skillful interaction of, "I placed this Drone in a loop and now I have Haste because the Drone knows your here!"
Either 3% matters or it doesn't, pick one.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3634672#Comment_3634672
I think their point was the same is true for scrim and comp killers having a gap with average killers as well, and if in an equal field of comp vs comp or scrim vs scrim the killers have to tunnel, then in an equal field of average vs average they would also have to tunnel. Because in both cases the skill level is equal.
So the question is, why would it be different when both teams are maybe not comp level, but still the same level?
Because there the balance of the game only tilts into the Survivors favor at the highest level.
At most other levels, it either leans towards the Killer due to perks or powers; or is relatively even.
I can almost guarantee that anyone who doesn't tunnel and is put up against a team of the same skill and the same mentality to them will be able to 2K consistently. I say almost because map RNG could change that in either direction.
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@Leachy_Jr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3634342#Comment_3634342
Standing still for 0.3s gives her around ~1.44m of distance on you. If you're getting hit from that then you're greeding loops and should play a bit safer.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3634230#Comment_3634230
That RNG absolutely does still happen.
She wouldn't be haste amped if the team didn't give her a bunch of claw traps. She got rewarded with haste because she did her job well with good drone placements and survivors messing up, so naturally the chase becomes harder. Both wesker and singu have a similar mechanic.
Even haste amped id still say its a 50/50 and a fair chase esp since it is entirely the survivors fault if she gets above 1 stack.
Idk people seem mad they can't loop a killer by predropping it into oblivion. The main reasons I started maining SM in the first place is because she can actually punish predroppers, and you have to be actually outplayed instead of "run to yellow, drop pallet, repeat".
Weren't you the self-proclaimed "#1 MFT hater"?
Somehow, 3% Survivor Haste is OP and uncounterable but Killer Haste doesn't make unsafe loops worse.
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@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3634299#Comment_3634299
They play literally the same game, with same gen speed, same chases, same killers. If your argument is "oh they nowhere near to pub teams", well, killers too. And they probably wouldn't have won 5% of the matches without camping and tunneling.
If it's necessary on best-vs-best level, I will surprise you, but it also necessary on average-vs-average level. If both sides play to win, of course.
I would advise you to try out for scrims and then report back.
The gap between "good" pub teams and scrim teams is massive. The gap between scrims and comp is also big.
OhTofu runs a scrim program, I've participated before under a different name. It's a really fun experience and I'd highly recommend it.
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He's cool but his perks are kinda ass, so probably not. Not really worth the money
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3634501#Comment_3634501
But that means, that i cant try?
You can, but I'm not sure why you would.
If being that competitive mattered, you wouldn't have chosen Freddy with bad addons and a bad build.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3634333#Comment_3634333
This is not just the build. Loadout is more than just the perks. It's the type of killer, type of survivor group, items, addons and offerings.
If the killer plays Freddy against a 4man that sends themselves to Ormond with 3 med kits (one syringe, one Styptic) and one bnp, all spreading on gens while the killer has brown addons, a BP offering and the build is : surge, Bbq, lethal, Stbfl, im certain, that despite the skill level (also a problematic term because what skill do we talk about) being equal, the killer will not be able to go for 6 hook stages before someone is out.
Caring to win is out of the question. We are playing a game. Of course we want to win. If we are talking bringing Nurse or Blight with quad slowdown every match, then yes. Tunneling is not necessary at all.
If you are playing a weak killer with a bad build with bad add-ons against a full meta squad...you should not expect to win.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3634302#Comment_3634302
If the other side is at your skill level but brings a loadout way stronger than yours, tunneling is necessary.
Maybe, yes.
Of course, there's likely a difference in ideas there.
If you care enough about winning to tunnel but bring a bad build, idk.
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@MegMain98 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3634228#Comment_3634228
So is she not supposed to have some sort of a tool to deal with loops and catch survivors and some point in time during chase? Are you supposed to loop her for the entire game?
And 60% of the killer roster cannot be conventionally looped. You hold W against Clown, Pyramid Head, Artist, so why are people so feral over SM when other killers do the exact same thing as her and do it better than she does…
I’m with you, she’s annoying to face and she needs some sort of a rework but people overblow how bad she is due to how bad she was when she launched.
Clown isn't hold W, he's drop pallet. He also gets a pass because he existed when it wasn't oversaturated.
PH can be juked consistently and irregardless of any external factor. His power is also a skill shot.
Artist has the same issue, but she CAN skill shot and cross map. You can definitely see people complain about her just putting crows down at a loop, but there's STILL jukes you can do.
DM can't be juked. Her power is an AoE. There is no skillful interaction there, no skill shots. If you place the power down, you win that loop. That's it. Maybe if you controlled the Drone, but you don't.
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@pseudechis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3634187#Comment_3634187
All that happened is some new players lost at a game that's it.
To come back and say people having adversity in their lives shouldn't have to face it in a game is just grossly melodramatic. I tell you the overreaction of this community to game mechanics is far more off putting than any game mechanics could possibly be.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3634184#Comment_3634184
Its a game. Its not lacking empathy to understand that a game has no obligation to help someone with their personal problems.
What you are equating here to a miserable time is simply losing. If you can't have fun simply because you lose, then games in general aren't for you because guess what...
You are going to lose a lot.
Especially when starting out, but that's how we learn, or at least that's how those who improve and succeed learn.
I point this out and the counter point raised is "people have enough hardship in their lives so games shouldn't be hard." As if a game has an obligation to take your personal hardship into account. It doesn't... it really doesn't.
If life is so hard that even losing a game is too much to handle then that's not a game problem. The best thing to do there is stop playing games and make some changes to one's life so that games can be without personal hang ups ruining the fun.
You chime in to say I lack empathy for pointing this out, but the problem here is you're equating loss with misery.
The "average person" doesn't tend to equate loss with misery. In fact many people can play games without any sense of misery, loss or otherwise. These kind of players are the most fun to play with, be it computer games, boardgames or sports. The ones who can be cheerful even if its not going well, rather than those who are just miserable because its hard. Because in the end its only a game.
Can the game be hard for new players, sure, but that doesn't make it miserable. Its only miserable for those who get miserable over loss.
One of the harshest truths in life is if you never lose you never learn. Furthermore being unable to learn from loss breeds perpetual losers.
You can't very well learn when your match is over on five seconds because the Killer saw you were new and targeted you lol.
No, the new player experience is absolutely miserable. You are thrust into a game with no real instruction, into an extremely toxic community in a game where you have NO agency if you're new.
You equating some emotional weakness to DBD reveals both your inherent biases and your age, respectfully. You sound like my grandfather telling me, "Just work hard, you'll be able to support yourself, what do you mean you hate your job? What do you mean your miserable? Your life is great, these kids today don't get to feel miserable, they have no reason to."
You view anyone unwilling to participate as weak-minded, which is not only wrong but extremely insulting.
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People who intentionally cuck their teammates go right to the top of my list.
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3634144#Comment_3634144
In some cases, it it necessary.
Proof me wrong.
If you are worse than your opponents due to poor matchmaking, tunneling is necessary.
If you are looking for an easy match, tunneling is necessary.
If you are looking to ruin one person's match in particular, tunneling is necessary.
I will allow these concessions. I feel they are legitimate.
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@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3634144#Comment_3634144
Tell this joke to killers at tournament. Where to the time one survivor is dead, killer barely could have equal game with 1-3 gens left and have CHANCE to win, even on Nurse. Even with limitations on perks and items. And it with keeping in mind that AFC system doesn't exist in tournaments as well.
If tunneling needed in pubs? Not necessary in most matches. But you never now if you queue up against strong team and if you started to spread hooks with them, you pretty much will lose.
You have no idea the insane gap of skill between pub strong teams, scrim teams and comp teams.
Take it from someone who has played against all three. Good pub teams are legitimately ass compared to comp teams. They shouldn't even be compared because they're playing fundamentally different games.
You cannot use comp matches to balance pubs. Absolutely horrific idea.
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@Leachy_Jr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3634189#Comment_3634189
Your issue is that you're viewing it in complete black and white and nothing else.
What if when I run away from the loop I have a chained window? No hit
What if when I stay I win pallet 50/50s? No hit
If we're going off when you WILL down someone, then every killer in the game doesn't have counterplay since you will eventually go down against any killer.
If you're going down quickly in every chase against SM, then that sounds like a skill issue tbh. You should try not getting scanned for a starters.
Okay, so bad RNG that doesn't happen much anymore.
A pallet 50/50 versus a Haste amped SM with no red stain is hardly a 50/50. It's more a 90/10.
"Don't get scanned" = "Wait out DH 5HEAD"
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@MegMain98 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3634189#Comment_3634189
The difference between old Legion and SM is that Legion was 100% guaranteed a three hit down with Frank’s Mix Tape with zero input from the survivor. All Legion did was stab, stab, fatigue, wait 10 seconds, the stab again and down. And there was zero counterplay because Legion could vault pallets and windows and could whiff a swing but still be in their power.
SM is a glorified M1 killer with a bloated base-kit due to all the status effects, but it’s not a guaranteed hit because you still have pallets and windows to work with and can chain together strong tiles. You have options in a chase. Yeah if she keeps setting up drones then you’re going to eventually get a claw trap, get hindered, and go down but isn’t that the point of the killer’s power that you’re supposed to eventually go down? And someone else also has the ability to hinder you and force you to drop pallets? Clown.
I’m not a SM defender, she’s not fun but she is far from a 100% “guaranteed hit” nor is she as free of a down as 2018 Legion.
Your definition of DM counterplay is essentially the same as telling people in 2018 to just stun or locker juke the Legion.
She has Haste, Undetectable, Tracking and Hindered. She cannot be looped, you MUST hold W or die. Holding W only prolongs the inevitable, which is why Overcome is genuinely S-tier against her.
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Not a bug.
Just uncloak.
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That's called ping.
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@Leachy_Jr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3634143#Comment_3634143
You can't moonwalk to guarantee a down, survivors can actually do something.
Survivors have so much they can do but no one does it because they don't fully understand how her power works
- Standing still/crouch walking for literally ~0.3s waiting for the scan lines to pass
- Avoiding drones outside of chase to make your chases longer and less 2 tappable
- Standing still/crouchwalking to force an M1 for more distance while healthy
- Standing under a drone for 0.3s to make it raise and remove its scan lines
- Pathing back into the drone so she's forced to walk under it and raise it
- Using vaults (which are her best counter similar to bubba, the main reason I run bam almost every game)
- Camping pallets
- Forcing pallet 50/50s similar to other predrop killers like clown and bubba
- Chaining loops with walls
- Keeping track of where she's been to run to non-droned locations
- Predicting her movement speed bonuses looking at the UI and seeing whos claw trapped
- Disabling drones to frequently ran locations
- NOT disabling certain drones so they become more predictable with visable scan lines
- Taking hits
- W keying
- Predicting laser tags/scan techs
- Running up to badly placed drones where the scan lines move slower
- Using main buildings
- Using map specific tiles/structures that have an absurd amount of LOS blockers that I would not be able to list all of (yamaoka gyms as example)
- Exhaustion perks extend chases massively (overcome my beloved)
Don't get me wrong, she isn't perfect, but I wouldn't say badly designed either.
Also if you saw and knew what SM is capable of then you would probably agree she has a borderline infinite skill ceiling. You can scan through almost every hole that slinger can shoot through so there's always a way to improve your scanning efficiency. You probably just think her ceiling is low because of how low her skill floor is, and that there is VERY few actual good SM players.
Lots of words to say the same thing.
Place power on loop.
Survivor leaves? They get hit and die.
Survivor stays? They die.
Survivors doing gens?
Place power on gen.
Hold 3-gen.
Excellent gameplay. She's both old Legion and WORSE. At least Legion matches were over fast. Here we have a Killer that WILL down you, regardless of your skill; who offers one, that's right, ONE whole counterplay, hold W. It's not really a counterplay, since she has Haste, UD and Tracking, but you die a little later so wooooooo. That's the EXACT same thing as old Legion.
Add on top of that, she can still hold 3-gens. Awesome!
She's a borderline skill-absent Killer. A true defintion of anti-loop brainrot and a perfect epitome of what a Killer should not be. Unengaging for all parties. Her best case scenario is a complete redesign ala Freddy.
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@pseudechis said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3634085#Comment_3634085
Oh for crying out loud, if a game is triggering to real life issues then you need to deal with your real life issues and play the game afterwards.
As harsh as it sounds, no game tutorial can fix someone’s perpetual self deprecating victimhood. That needs to be fixed outside of the game.
Holy lack of empathy.
Might be news to you, but people PLAY GAMES TO HAVE FUN!
There's no enjoyment in having a miserable experience whilst trying to learn a new game. There's no enjoyment in having agency removed.
If you can't see how that's massively unappealing to the average person, who likely already feels that way in their daily life, then open your eyes.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3634144#Comment_3634144
On that I'd disagree. At least if you're on an even skill level with the opposition.
Like I said if you outclass the survivors a lot sure. Which with the way matchmaking is, can happen more often than not for some.
If you always play a certain way then you will get put where that playstyle is effective. Myself for example. I'm probably well below where my skill level actually is in MMR, but that's because I DO spread hooks. So ideally I'm put where me handicapping myself is equal to the skill of the opposition.
Matchmaking could be better but that's the idea.
When I face good efficient survivors, they will roll me because I'm handicapping myself. As they should. But if we both handicapped ourselves we could both have better matches. But they don't want to.
No.
If your opponents are the same skill, you do not need to tunnel to kill two. You probably don't need to tunnel to kill three.
If your opponents are better than you, then sure.
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@MrPenguin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3633991#Comment_3633991
I think its kinda minimizing to say its just "survivors win sometimes by doing their objective". That's like saying "survivors are just upset that the killer sometimes win by doing their objective. Their trying to say 'killers getting kills' is a problem'". Its not just winning in general that's the problem. Its doing the objective in the mot effective playstyle for either side that's not fun for the other or sometimes both parties. From the killer perspective side, especially when they expect and often demand that the killer purposefully play in a very suboptimal way that in any serious match is throwing. It's not just people saying saying "doing gens at all is a problem".
I understand what you're trying to get at but tunneling and camping are not OP and overpowered. They are needed to preform at an even level in an evenly skilled match. Things like BNP were not needed to preform equally and they were unbalanced.
So maybe its more accurate to say "the game is balanced with these things in play/mind" which cannot be said for BNPs and such.
Sure, if you outclass the survivors you can spread hooks around. If you always play by spreading hooks, like myself, you should be in an MMR where you can do that and still win reliably. But that needs matchmaking to work well and we both know it doesn't for both sides.
"The handicap you're asking for on the survivor side is literally that they just throw the game."
Yes, exactly, and you're asking killers to do so as well. If both sides throw then neither side is throwing. The problem is survivors are asking killers to throw, while they themselves play efficiently.
I understand that "well we don't want to do totems and chest, it makes winning take longer and actively detrimental". which is fine, but if that's you attitude stop asking for the killer to spread hooks, because it's the same for them.
No ones asking for only survivors to handicap themselves while the killer tunnels, just that survivors return the favor when killers don't tunnel in their own way. But instead we get this attitude that "no we can't. We NEED to ONLY do gens and do so efficiently, even if the killer is giving us slack". Which is exactly the thing in the way.
I'll give you slack if you give me slack. This people will be a lot more willing to agree to.
You need to give me slack but I won't give you any. This people will not agree to and they shouldn't.
"Killer winrates are above where they should be."
I'm not sure where you're getting this data. Killer win rate should be around 60% so accounting for discrepancies in killer strength maybe 55%-65% give or take afaik. I would like to see where it's above those numbers.
Well, I can't speak for others but I'm not asking for a nerf to survivors alone and acting like weaker survivors = less tunneling because that's not true. Just like nerfing killers won't make survivors suddenly stop slamming gens.
If its coming from the game, both sides need to be slowed down. How that's done can vary.
If its coming from the community, the mindset of survivors needs to change to consider the killers side of the equation and their fun as well.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems like you want killers to not tunnel and purposefully make bad decisions while survivors continue to slam gens and play efficiently. To that I ask you, how is this fair to the killer player?
Tunneling is not necessary.
It's easy, efficient and EXTREMELY difficult to counter, ie, OP. That's why it's common.
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@Leachy_Jr said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3633650#Comment_3633650
If you think new SM is anywhere close to being as bad as OG legion you're either blinded by the SM hate bandwagon or completely forgotten how absolutely awful legion was.
Uhhhh, yeah, no she's just as bad.
She has the EXACT same issues, which is more than a little amusing.
At least the Legion mains kinda knew and wanted him changed, nobody really thought he should stay as is and nobody claimed he was a "infinite skill ceiling killer". Unlike a lot of the DM players
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@RpTheHotrod said:
If they were grouped with you, that's why. The person with the highest mmr in the group heavily influences the matching. It's hard to get new people into the game if you'll be playing with them for the first few weeks. The reason this is the case is to prevent high mmr players from grouping with a new account to just to completely demolish brand new killers. They'd essentially have to play on their own together until their mmr has some adjustments as they learn. Once they get some of the basics down, then you could occasionally group up with them to get a feel of the MMR waters with them. Grouping together on day one will likely stress them out of even wanting to play because they are getting dropped smack dab into a battlefield of experienced players.
And yet, it's equally demoralizing to be functionally banned from playing with a friend when you need them most.
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@GeneralV said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3633633#Comment_3633633
But there is a difference between suggesting an overhaul and suggesting a removal. BHVR will never remove a character that people paid for and then refund everyone, that is simply unreasonable.
The most extreme thing that can happen to Skull Merchant is the Freddy treatment. And while his rework was the worst change ever made to this game, at least in my honest opinion, maybe SM would be luckier than the Nightmare was. Or maybe not.
However, asking for a character to be removed from the game won't take us anywhere.
In this case. the overhaul would effectively be a removal of her current gameplay.
So, basically exactly what happened with Freddy, Doctor and Legion.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632992#Comment_3632992
Do we know that hatch escapes are considered escapes when it comes to kill rates? I really am not sure how this is counted because at least in terms of MMR it counts as neither a win or loss.
I think it's very rare that only one person gets out through a gate, so yes, I think Hatch Escapes are counted in the kill rate.
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@HamsterEnjoyer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3633191#Comment_3633191
You love trying to come at me and playing dumb while doing it omg lol
So I'm not allowed to trap certain areas unless there's no survivors there and if I chase a survivor I must do it purely as an M1 killer if I have no web set up?
Or
Do I set up the web up as I chase a survivor if they're running to places where it would be convenient for me to trap regardless of if I was chasing someone at the moment anyways?
I am not criticising you, except for playing her exactly how they described and saying otherwise.
It's ultimately not the players fault that such boring and unskillful gameplay is the most effective way to play her. That's why I pushed for a full rework, because you can't just take her problematic aspects away.
She's always gonna be really good at holding gens and now she's also good at anti-loop brainrot. Knight is the same way, minus the gens and more emphasis on chase.
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@mustdogen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3633193#Comment_3633193
What?no.
Gen defense build will only lead you to 3 gens situations = lose.
No?
You have eight uses per gen.
If you've managed to get through 4 PR's, 4 PGTW's and four separate Grim procs and still be in a losing position, more power to you ig
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Uhhhhh.
Corrupt, PR, PGTW and Grim.
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@HamsterEnjoyer said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632504#Comment_3632504
Tbf I play her with this ish but also as a trap killer. Survivors just run to places that make it better for me to trap. Chase and place drones at spots that are good for them to be at like if a survivor runs me to shack ofc Im using a drone because that eliminates shack from play, if they then run to main well then boom drone at main as well. Long loop that I can't mindgame? A drone will do great there!
So sometimes its just coincidence
....so you just play her exactly like how they described.
Survivor runs to loop. Drone goes up.
Survivor stays? They die.
Survivor leaves? They die.
Quite engaging and fun gameplay. Certainly the pinnacle of design.
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@Moman624 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3633039#Comment_3633039
Your acting like it's from 4ks all the time, and most of them are from noobie lobbies. Most quit because the game is far from balanced, we all know that. Smh, no need to get smart over a game.
I don't play Killer too much anymore, as that's all I play with DBD but I haven't lost on a non-meme build since Alien.
Now, I've probably only played 250-400 games in that time, far less than what I used to average, but it's not insignificant.
That's mostly why I'm losing interest. Survivor is miserable, Killer is just not challenging FOR ME anymore and the designs are getting boring.
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@Murgleïs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632091#Comment_3632091
Let’s talk about the massive amount of suicides in very winnable games first.
Does that change the FACT that Killers are still getting those Kills?
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632978#Comment_3632978
"The only exception is the "draw" condition, as even if a survivor draw with the killer (in other words, escape through the hatch) in game counts as a full escape even if their MMR doesn't move."
I never said that the system is perfect. In fact, in my opinion the hatch should be removed from the game and survivors only able to either win or lose.
I think the Hatch does a LOT to keeping the Escape Rate over 30%. I don't know that you'd want to remove that.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632965#Comment_3632965
It's not a personal perception:
https://deadbydaylight.fandom.com/wiki/Skill-Based_Matchmaking_Rating
It's literally how the MMR works.
Then you cannot count Hatch Escapes as a win.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632877#Comment_3632877
Yes, 2.4 kill per match on average to be exact. Which in terms of MMR means killers wins 40% of their games (3K), while survivors also win 40% of their games (Escapes in 40% of matches).
The key here is that just as the game, MMR is not symmetrical. Killers need a 3K to win, survivors only need to escape themselves to win. The only exception is the "draw" condition, as even if a survivor draw with the killer (in other words, escape through the hatch) in game counts as a full escape even if their MMR doesn't move.
Some people doesn't understand that, just as what happens in fighting games (a genre DbD have a lot in common in terms of balancing, among other things) even if you get to a perfect 5/5 winrate between two characters at high skill play in terms of balancing, there is no possible way of physically guarantee that everytime those two characters play against each other they would always grant their users a 50% win rate because a lot of factors (including the skill of such users).
That's why you have to center your attention on the mathematical average, which again, in DbD is a 60% kill rate on average, which would mean a 40% winrate on average for everybody, as for the killer the MMR works as a "1v4" where you have to kill at least 3 rivals to wins, but for survivors the MMR works as a "1v1", where you only need to escape by yourself to win.
In other words, if in high MMR there is a 39% escape rate that means that yes, the game is killer sided but just by a 1% more kill rate on average than it should.
I think it's more nuanced than that, as you keep saying wins and losses which is an entirely personal perception.
I will agree with your larger point, although I feel the game should trend towards 50 instead of 60, as you need to account for Hatch escapes, which is hardly a win.
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@Moman624 said:
If survivors are dying it's because there probably new since there's Alot of new people and older players leaving.
Prove it.
Pull up some stats, last stats we had from BHVR show that Killers are fine.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632878#Comment_3632878
If you connected my reply to whom I was addressing you would see my point clearly.
They stated survivors only had 1 meta perk to use all year but forgot to mention all the other meta perks as if they don’t exists. My point being is meta perks are gutted on both sides. I don’t agree with however MFT getting the nerf it did. It wasn’t even that drastic. Most people that complained about it were trickster mains running 4.4 but since that buff it’s irrelevant
...I was literally the person you replied to :(
I believe I was referencing NEW perks. FTP and Buckle Up are 3 and 4 years old, respectively.
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@MechWarrior3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632197#Comment_3632197
Survivors have FTP, buckle up... I could go on. That’s 2 perks in the meta right there. Let’s be real.
And we Killers have PR PGTW what's your point?
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632852#Comment_3632852
Not going to explain to you again, in excruciating detail, in any way and form possible, why a 60% ON AVERAGE kill rate means 40% ON AVERAGE winrate for both sides.
If the kill rate is lower than 60% ON AVERAGE, the game is ON AVERAGE not killer sided. Period. You could come up with all the mental gymnastics and fallacies you want, it's an empirical mathematical fact.
And even if it wasn't and you were right, then time for survivors to stop using that number to argue that the game is killer sided without even understanding how things work and what it really represents, like the person I was talking to ("According to Nightlight, the current Kill Rate is 55%. So DBD is Killer-sided on average.") or our friend Pulsar over here:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632823#Comment_3632823
"The last official stats we have show that Survivors have a 39% escape rate at 'high mmr'" That means the game is on average 1% killer sided in high MMR, so you just proved those 2 years of "massive buffs" was needed and it's just after those buffs that the game started to be balanced / slightly killer sided on average.
So congrats BHVR, you at last somewhat balanced the game and ended the survivor supremacy.
How does that work out?
Shouldn't a 60% KR mean that Killers are managing, on average, two Kills trending towards three?
Likewise, does a 39% ER not mean that one, trending towards two, Survivors escape the match?
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@Moman624 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632197#Comment_3632197
You got me with one meta perk, but that doesn't exclude all perks in general, no matter what anybody says, there are survivor perks that you cannot counter or are just drop dead unfair such as, getting unhooked and you still get healed and a body with Adrenaline.
Nothing takes the fact that the game is under the survivors favor, just like Friday for example, eventually there will be a point kill rates go down, worse case scenario.. the game dies.
How could the game possibly be Survivor-sided?
The last official stats we have show that Survivors have a 39% escape rate at "high mmr".
Killers have been massively buffed in the last two years. I would actually go as far to say that the game is Killer-sided at an average level.
Once again, I am asking you, politely, to prove your point. How is the game Survivor-sided?
Oh, also, Adrenaline activates once after every gen is done. It's a fine perk. Shouldn't wake you up against Freddy though.
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@Murgleïs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3630205#Comment_3630205
« Cheating ? Who cares ? Stop complaining, it’s annoying. By the way, you said it was subtle cheating but you can’t tell for sure ? So you are just a lying, you got outplayed by better survivors. »
It’s not like DBD has a massive cheating problem. "Just ignore the problem" is probably the worst advice to give. When I see a survivor faster than the others without reasons, I assume this person is cheating or at least very sus, I don’t tell myself "Well this person is obviously zooming all the time but let’s assume it’s just a skill diff ».
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=alKUMzjiP04
I mean, the Claude is just better right ?
Correct. There's nothing you can do as a player if people are subtle cheating. If you allow yourself to descend into that mindset, you'll start jumping at shadows. Suddenly, there's cheaters everywhere and their the only reason why you lose. It's just not worth the mental torture.
That's why I always assume people are better than me until I KNOW for sure that they're cheating, not a subtle speed boost or anything, but like teleporting or flying or eomething.
You have no power in those situations in-game. We all know BHVR's reporting system is....inconvenient, to say the least. The only thing you CAN control is your response.
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Unfortunately, you'll have to upgrade and be met with the same issue in two years
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@Moman624 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3632091#Comment_3632091
Honestly if your going to be bitter, just do not reply. Please and thank you, most kill rates now adays is from people throwing or people who are beginners in new lobbies, you'd be surprised.
So then the game is actually not Survivor-sided.
Either the data supports you or it doesn't, you can't cherry-pick information.
Survivors have had approximately ONE meta perk in the last year, which was absolutely gutted. To say that the game is Survivor-sided at anything except the HIGHEST level is wrong.
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I do think he's fairly fun to play with the CTA addon, but he's certainly never going to be fun to play against in his current iteration.
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I would advise you to look up Kill Rates and then patch notes.
I think you'll be surprised.
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5 seconds, no timer, keep the Conspicuous Action nerf and force it to turn off when another Survivor gets hooked.
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@Nazzzak said:
They've said before that they intended P100 to just be a personal goal. IIRC they felt if they attached a reward to it then it gives the playerbase the idea that it's a required achievement.
Which is rather rich coming from the NFT-promoting, FOMO-exploiting company.
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She shouldn't have made it past the design phase.
Now we're stuck with a horrifically designed Killer who often attracts the worst elements of the community due to their kits unique ability to be absolutely miserable.
The best thing we could do is remove her and start over, keep the name and some cosmetics, that's it. Total redesign
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@Adaez said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3630501#Comment_3630501
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kPFvjLhnqNA
At 105% is noticeable, but when they have 1 or 2% only and paired with wallhacks, its impossible to tell for sure, you just know they loop perfectly and you're always 1 second short from catching up before they make it to a loop.
So, once again, you don't know.
You keep saying that you are absolutely sure you're getting trounced by cheaters but then in the next sentence reiterate that they're Undetectable.
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@Adaez said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3630196#Comment_3630196
Running windows does not make you faster, and you do realize that experienced survivors make mistakes as well, cheaters that can see the killer at all times dont, you're closing in on almost defending cheaters while putting all the blame on killers pretty much saying just get better, experienced killers know there's no way they lose all the 50/50 and survivors have perfect pathing at all times so its obvious why veteran killers find if fishy when they go againts survivors that can do that while not being able to catch up easily
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3630198#Comment_3630198
Because there are all kinds of cheats available now and it has become a real problem that deters players from playing and ruins the fun left in the game.
Some cheaters can even make it seem like you're the one cheating, game absolutely needs a proper anticheat before it loses more players.
We saw that licensed chapters are not enough to bring players in and keep players, they seriously need to focus on making the game experience better, fov slider and 3 gen fix is good, but the anticamp mechanic is bad in the current state and needs to fix proxy camping as well, else it benefits the killer more.
BHVR biggest problem is the one that a lot of content creators touched on, they think they're always right and not listen to the playerbase enough which is literally the people who play the game and bring you money, if you're not gonna listen to those people that have a good ideea how to make the game better in general because they play the game, then on who?
Game needs better anticheat and a replay system to rewatch a survivor after the game ends, they really need to fix the spectate mode to not be so buggy if they're gonna do that.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3630205#Comment_3630205
This is such a flawed mindset, defending BHVR wont make the game experience better but just feed them the ideea that everything is ok, which is not.
Its bewildering that you can say and gaslight people that cheaters are not a problem when there's at least 1 in half my games and you cant even tell because they're all subtle cheaters.
I wont argue further because I think people like you will defend anything if you're gonna defend cheaters and say they're not a problem when there's plenty of content creators too that complain and are not afraid to give BHVR constuctive criticism where its due.
Your comments are too infuriating and it feels like baiting for a warn at this point, and infuriating for the players in this community that actually want the game to get better instead of just stagnate and keep losing players, believe me when I say that people that give BHVR valid and constructive criticism love the game more because they want it to get better fixing the core issues than those who will defend them for anything and actually contributing to the echo chamber.
" cheaters are not a problem when there's at least 1 in half my games and you cant even tell because they're all subtle cheaters"
So you can’t tell that they're cheating, but you just know that they are. Yeah, you're making massive leaps of logic here. Some players really are that good. Some people do get luck on their side.
There's no use in worrying yourself over it. There's nothing you, as a player, can do about people cheating. You have no power in that situation, only in how you react and perceive the world around you. If you believe everyone is cheating, you'll see cheaters everywhere.
I do find it extremely amusing that you say there's cheaters in at least half your games and then immediately say how you can't tell.