Pulsar
Pulsar
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691436#Comment_3691436
"You literally said, "survivors have extra time" and that was that. You can't prove it and the burden of proof lies with you."
And you literally just said "survivors don't have extra time". How's that anything different? Provide the proof.
If you really want to go into numbers in the game we can, but that's a large conversation. If you add up chase times, pick up times, walk and hook times vs gen times the comparison between each sides objectives in terms of time is not even close. While the exact numbers can vary as we would be making approximations and averages, the general difference in times as far as conclusion is objective.
"They're essentially replacing Corrupt with something stronger. Survivors
HAVE to cleanse every totem. That's not somehow better for them.""HAVE" to cleanse every totem is wrong and simply a hyperbolic statement. You are stating the WORST case scenario. They could get the hex on the first totem and now the killer wasted a perk slot for basically nothing, that's awful in the other direction. HIGH RISK/HIGH REWARD. That's their point. Also, finding and clearing all the totems is extremely easy with all the totem finding perks (one of which is a common perk for everyone btw) and maps if they want to go that route.
You are also basing your entire argument on DH. Let's say this change also brought a change to DH since you're going to the extreme scenarios. DH is an exception to how it would be strengthened in this scenario compared to others. Taking DH out of the equation the others are not having issues like that.
"MMR doesn't work"
We can say MMR is heavily flawed and does give you potatoes every now and then but to say it doesn't work at all is just factually untrue. "Generally speaking" it does work. Exceptions don't disprove a generality.
"This is gonna kill regular Survivors OFTEN. It will feel terrible to play against and be far too strong for them as is. "
MMR adjusts them to where they would not be losing more than they are now. Also, as I already mentioned multiple times, there are multiple totem finding perks and maps.
"One thing being bad doesn't excuse another and certainly not on this
level. This is beyond even original 2017 DS levels of threat. This is,
"If you don't spend four minutes cleansing totems you will get
insta-killed by my Devour.""Common…4 minutes..seriously?This is another hyperbolic statement. You know as well as I do it's not taking 4 survivors 4 minutes to cleanse 5 totems, and again that is the worst case scenario, not how many they would realistically be cleansing.. Also as I said above, let's stop using DH as a scape goat for this entire argument. Let's say DH gets reworked as well so we can move that to the side and focus on the points. I also don't think one bad excuses another, but you have generally in the past been completely fine with those other examples, that's why it's relevant here. You have a double standard on, "the free value just from the threat of something". If you thought they were both issues then yes I would agree it's not worth bringing up.
I am not the one making a change with the potential to decrease Survivor time allowance. I like that you're very confident about this, but the fact of the matter is that nobody is that hyper-efficient in normal matches. I'm sorry, maybe I could stream for you sometime and you could see what I see, but that's just not how it works for us mere mortals.
They don't know when the Hex is cleansed if it's not already active. Oh good, they can run Small Game and get tunneled out. Adding more perks that Survivors need to run in order to have a tolerable experience isn't a good feature. Even if the Survivors somehow teleported to every totem; that's a bare minimum of seventy seconds. That's not accounting for travel time, looking for the totem or…you know, THE KILLER
MMR absolutely does not work. The current Survivor experience proves it, as does the Killer experience. It's set up based off of speed, not fair matches and we know this for a fact.
Name something.
2017 DS? Bad. 2019 DS? Bad. DS after it didn't work in the end-game and had the Conspicuous Action? Good.
FTP + BU? Strong, for sure. Devastating in tournaments. Could stand to have a nerf now that it's functionally being replaced by DS.
Old old DH? Horrific perk. Old DH? A problem, but not something terrible. New DH? ######### perk, not worth running.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691407#Comment_3691407
"If you're just going to insist your right, why even post?"
I never just insisted I was right, you just didn't have an answer to my points. Those aren't synonymous.
"I'm trying to point out issues and it feels like you're just saying, "Nu uh""
I gave actual responses to all your points. You've basically just said "survivors don't have time", that's basically a "Nu uh" answer.
You literally said, "survivors have extra time" and that was that. You can't prove it and the burden of proof lies with you.
As for your points....
They're essentially replacing Corrupt with something stronger. Survivors HAVE to cleanse every totem. That's not somehow better for them.
MMR doesn't work. This is gonna kill regular Survivors OFTEN. It will feel terrible to play against and be far too strong for them as is.
One thing being bad doesn't excuse another and certainly not on this level. This is beyond even original 2017 DS levels of threat. This is, "If you don't spend four minutes cleansing totems you will get insta-killed by my Devour."
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691192#Comment_3691192
"You aren't proposing anything to mitigate the time lost by Survivors. "
I have. They're running less gen slow down perks if they're running hex perks. On top of that I'd argue survivors have too much time at the moment anyway, even if I hadn't proposed anything.
"This is going to absolutely murder the casual players whilst providing
free value for Killers by simply having the THREAT of a Hex."MMR adjusts for casual players. If they lose more mmr will adjust them until they're winning/losing the exact same amount.
"free value for Killers by simply having the THREAT"
You realize the amount of survivor perks that exist giving survivors value by the THREAT of their existence right? This isn't new. It already exists.
If you're just going to insist your right, why even post?
I'm trying to point out issues and it feels like you're just saying, "Nu uh"
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@RaSavage42 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3690982#Comment_3690982
I hate to do this…
But having to find, chase, down and hook 4 survivors 3 times while the Survivors have Gen progression perks, Toolboxes and Second Chance Perks
To say otherwise is nuts
60% KR.
Needing to potentially cleanse five totems would skyrocket the KR.
Their heart is in the right place, and their brain is too, but it's just not the right idea.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3691077#Comment_3691077
Literally equip one totem finding perk out of the myriad available or a map. You make this sound so difficult and overbearing when it's not. Survivors have the extra time.
You aren't proposing anything to mitigate the time lost by Survivors.
This is going to absolutely murder the casual players whilst providing free value for Killers by simply having the THREAT of a Hex.
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@squbax said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3690571#Comment_3690571
If most people cannot get to a loop after a 5 second stun, that is a MASSSIVE skill issue and they deserve to go down again. Thats like the people with 4 slowdowns complaining their gens went too fast, at that point perks cannot play the game for you, either you get better or continue to get Ls.
It's completely possible against movement speed Killers and new maps being absolutely filled with deadzones.
Keep in mind the stun is 5 seconds, but that's not how much distance you get.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3690982#Comment_3690982
That is absolutely not the majority.
To say hunt 5 totems while the killer is stacking slow downs is extremely disingenuous. How are they running totem perks and stacking slow down? They aren't. You don't get both. Also how do we immediately jump to the worst case scenario of 5 totems? They could be getting it on the first totem.
"To even say otherwise is nuts. Even at high skill matches, it's going to
be INSANE if you don't know what totem you need to cleanse. Could you
imagine Devour Hope in that sort of lobby? You'd have to assume it's in
every match because as soon as you figure it out the match is already
over."You mean like the secondary objective the community has been asking for ages? Literally multiple totem finding perks and items.
And once again, that's one perk.
Devour, Pain Res, Pop and Grim. Have fun, I sure won't.
The idea you came up with is not the right one, but you are on the right track.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3690881#Comment_3690881
Currently survivors have lots of extra time, we can simply look at time ratios between objectives to see that, like they’re not even close. Unless you’re talking about low mmr survivors.
No, I'm talking about the majority of the playerbase.
You don't have time to hunt down, potentially, five totems whilst the Killer is either tunneling or stacking slowdowns.
To even say otherwise is nuts. Even at high skill matches, it's going to be INSANE if you don't know what totem you need to cleanse. Could you imagine Devour Hope in that sort of lobby? You'd have to assume it's in every match because as soon as you figure it out the match is already over.
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You'd need to adjust the rest of the game speed as well.
Currently, Survivors don't have time to go totem hunting.
I agree that totems need some changes, but I don't feel that this is the right direction.
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@Xernoton said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3690541#Comment_3690541
Wesker has issues, yes. And they should be fixed. But he is not overpowered.
The DS buff will nerf the strength of tunneling. The issue will not go away but it's a start and definitely a step in the right direction.
I didn't say op was the one with a skill issue. It could go both ways. Either their team mates didn't do gens or op lasted about 5 seconds in chase. Either way it comes down to skill issue.
I didn't say he was overpowered.
The DS buff isn't going to do much for most people.
I also didn't accuse you of saying OP was bad, just remarked that it might not be the player who is dead at five gens fault.
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@Xernoton said:
Wesker is not overpowered, there are no ranks anymore (grades have no impact on matchmaking), DS will receive a buff, which also makes tunneling weaker as a result and if you die at 5 gens remaining then that's a skill issue.
To counter, Wesker is a bit too good at tunneling, DS will get a buff but it won't really change anything and dying at five gens has almost nothing to do with you and everything to do with your team.
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@Blueberry said:
Even more so, protection hits. Solves the abuse problems. If you're body blocking for someone you aren't being tunneled, you're trying to extend chases and progress the game.
Disagree.
What if you get hit off hook?
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@radiantHero23 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3689436#Comment_3689436
Set off way too much.
I'd just like for people to see what dbd is. A game. Not something to start a war over.
Playing dbd for this long really changes perspectives.
My statement to ds being buffed:
Overall good.
Is this the solution we have waited for? No. Game health should not be locked behind a paid dlc perk.
This is a start. Nothing more, nothing less.
Agreed.
A stop-gap at best, not a permanent solution
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Probably the only one to think it's OP
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Did people NOT know about this niche tech?
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3689545#Comment_3689545
I would highly suggest WoO its stupid how good it is. Literally got several 3-4 gen chases with it but not once could I do it without it lol.
I use it already, I've put like 4800 of my 5000 hours into Killer lol
It does not help if you're bad 😂
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3689496#Comment_3689496
So you think fixing this issue without negatively impacting the anti tunnel mechanics is very unlikely?
I do.
I also do not believe they are a permanent solution. Tunneling, and to a lesser extent proxying, should be addressed in the game itself, not via DLC perks.
Once that occurs, feel free to do with them what you wish.
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3689432#Comment_3689432
Every twenty games is crazy, maybe you're just a really good killer? I consider myself to be good, I still win the majority of my games but I can easily tell if it's a good team or not. Im defo a trash survivor tho, unless I run windows of OP and then I can easily loop for ages.
I'm pretty garbage at Survivor as well.
It's possible, I'm rusty but I've dabbled in comp before I took a break
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@Wiggles_Diggles said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3689416#Comment_3689416
I don’t disagree with the fact that SM should be changed I think she has too many things in her kit. She reminds me a lot of post rework Freddy before the nerfs that came his way which ultimately have me a little nervous if they go the rout of just flat out nerfing her. That being said I personally don’t think DCing against her is justified or ever really(life gets in the way sometimes and if cheaters are holding the game hostage come to mind).
As for solution just do what some other games and put you in a leavers que ifyou pressed the leave match button. Put you with other players that DC often and once some condition is met then you can be out of leavers Q. Specifically this needs to be if someone uses the leave match button because there are times when you get DCed against your own will.
So then people will kill themselves on hook instead.
Then You'll say, well we should remove that. Okay, then they let themselves go down.
You can't force people to play against something they find so unpleasant they'd rather not play at all.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3689435#Comment_3689435
I never said anything about not being able to delay a tunnel at all. That's nothing of what I've said.
I said people abusing anti tunnel mechanics to body block for the unhooker.
Yes, but it's likely that changing either of them will affect that ability.
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@Starrseed said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3689405#Comment_3689405
I hope you are right but if we sit here in 6 weeks with 5 posts daily about full body block builds every round I.dont want a single survivor complain if there perks get nerfed again
First off, chill with the us vs them.
Secondly, we will have those posts regardless. The mere fact that DS is getting buffed has already set people off.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3689419#Comment_3689419
Even with mmr being inconsistent it does still give you high mmr matches, regardless of if lower ones are thrown in here and there. I don't think that deters from my point.
If you agree it would be bad in those scenarios why would you be against changes to this at all? Nothing I'm mentioning changing would be affecting anyone but the people trying to abuse it. I can't see anyone being against this unless they want to be able to do these scenarios themselves.
Because I think you should be able to majorly delay a tunnel.
Until something changes in the games "basekit", I think it has a place. I'm also willing to see how DS affects it, and make changes accordingly, because it's not an issue currently.
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3689413#Comment_3689413
A team who is always spending time on gens when not in a chase. Split up on different gens too. Not afraid to letthere mate sit on hook and pop the gens out out more others on them. Bringing really strong perks as well. It’s pretty rare on killers I don’t play alot but for the killers I spend the most time on I would say it’s about 6/10 games are really good survivors. During events/ certain time of day it can be like 8/10 games. SWF is not a requirement, I’ve read into plenty of good solo queue teams as well.
Hmmmmm
For me, personally, I get a team that challenges me maybe every twenty games or so.
It's really the macro play that separates them.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3689405#Comment_3689405
I would argue those scenarios are much more common the higher mmr you go.
That would probably be relevant and a very good point, if MMR worked with any consistency
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What do you want them to do?
Can't raise the DC penalty, it's already a ######### mechanic but raising it more promotes toxicity.
Apparently we can't change SM since the cult defends her and she's fine. Some reasonable people understand she needs changes though, so it's not everyone who plays her.
I feel like everyone knows her reputation at this point. Hate to say it, but if you queue as her, you kinda have to accept that. Nobody likes to play against her.
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@HexHuntressThighs said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3689028#Comment_3689028
Killer is only easy if you’re playing Nurse/ Blight, that’s it. Either you’re just really good at Killer or you don’t play enough to get good teams, it’s that simple.
Two questions.
What constitutes a good team and how often do they occur?
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In that worst-case scenario, yes.
Thankfully, a lot of things seem OP in the worst-case scenario, but aren't in practice.
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@ExcelSword said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3689228#Comment_3689228
What exactly are you doing that is making killers "turbo tunnel" you? I know you've been playing this game for years like me, so I expect you can probably run most killers for a while. Most good killers that are playing to win won't go after clearly strong players, they will leave you to target weaker players, unless you are annoying them in some way.
I am a Killer main I am PAINFULLY average at Survivor.
Oh, as for what I did, P100 Steve. Should never have done that.
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@xltechno said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688494#Comment_3688494
If a person is always making mistakes and is always hanging on to the hook, then there is a problem with that person. Also, if he quits after just one or two games, he probably can't play any games. That person should enjoy movies and dramas, not games.
The lack of empathy for new players is absolutely astounding.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688910#Comment_3688910
True… dare to explain how any of that contradicts anything I said?
A game that withholds information, doesn't have much skill transfer from other games and has a "permanent" death system means the new player experience is particularly #########.
Losing doesn't necessarily equate to a bad time in other games. It almost always does in DBD, especially when you don't know what's going on and feel like you're set-up to fail.
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@BlightedDolphin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688658#Comment_3688658
You don’t need 20.
Deja Vu, Kindred, an exhaustion perk and then any perk of your choice is more than enough to make most solo queue games bearable.
I usually run those 2 and then Sprint Burst and Vigil or Chem Trap and my games are honestly much more fun.
While I wish Kindred was base kit so I didn’t have to use a slot on it, it absolutely makes solo queue feel like a different game.
If I run that, I'll get turbo-tunneled or I can't play my main.
The fact of the matter is, if you're trying to " cover you Solo Q bases" like OP said, you need more than four perk slots.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688882#Comment_3688882
Way to shift the argument. Some things also matter more than numbers. We always hear about “improving the survivor experience “, followed by hand holding mechanics and perk changes. Killer gets essentially nothing. BHVR has said that killer should feel like an unstoppable force, and nothing could be further from the truth against a good survivor team. Loading into the game against a gen rush group doesn’t feel good. Loading into leary’s as huntress or deathslinger feels like garbage. Numbers don’t tell the whole story.
Perhaps not.
You weren't arguing that though. You have continued to maintain that the game is Survivor-sided despite massive amounts of evidence to the contrary.
This leads me to believe it must be a personal experience. Are you losing the majority of your matches? Somehow, I doubt it.
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@Unusedkillername said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688658#Comment_3688658
I didn't say you need 20
Trust me just run 1 perk to minimise the problems most players who complain about Solo Q have very valid complaints but they never try to work with the game as it is and instead treat it as the game they want it to be and assume everything is going to work fine and it never does. It's like if killer players complained about gens going too fast but refused to run pop or pain res. Solo Q will always have its issues so at some point as a player you have to learn to minimise them however you can.
The issue is that I need to run OTR, DS and DH to stop tunneling. I also need Reassurance or Camaraderie to stop camping. I also need Kindred, Deja Vu, We'll Make It and Bond.
See the issue
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688884#Comment_3688884
Well, that's even better: That argument can be used in any game with a long enough queue time where you can lose the match. Even F2P ones. You know why? Because it is a risk you take in every single competitive game the moment you click the "Join game" button.
Do you know where you can get a guaranteed experience without having to worry about wasting any minute looking for a match that you may lose and / or having a bad time? Single player games. Maybe even PvE cooperative games, if you play with friends and don't get salty with them if you get wiped out.
Just saying.
Except DBD is rather different.
It's not mechanically like other games, the tutorial doesn't really teach you much and if you lose, you aren't allowed to contribute at all anymore. No respawns, no ghost mode, nothing. You're dead, you have a bad experience and you get no BP.
The game is extremely hard to pick up and is very unforgiving.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688638#Comment_3688638
I'm going to guess you meant "twenty dollars", because otherwise it doesn't make sense.
Either way, it is a multiplayer competitive game. Your personal definition of "fun" (winning games, your way) is not included in the price. Like I already said, you either like the game and like getting good at it so you don't lose most of the time, or you don't. If you don't then yes, probably you just wasted 20 dollars.
There is nothing else you could tell them.
I meant twenty minutes.
Get a group together, queue up, sit in queue, probably get dodged a couple times, load in, look around, do a bit of a gen, get chased, go down and die. Wait for your friends to play out the game without you.
Boom, twenty minutes gone for a horrible experience.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688690#Comment_3688690
48% is much higher than 40. It’s basically half and half. I don’t call that killer sided
If Survivors escaped 52% of the time, you'd be the first to proclaim how unfair that is and how Survivor-sided the game is
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688635#Comment_3688635
The threshold for high MMR is low. The majority of the playerbase is low because who knows how many people try out the game or play once or twice a week. I’d bet that the majority of people who play consistently are at high mmr. The stats that you mention also clearly show that a full SWF at high mmr has a much higher win rate than the 40% BHVR is aiming for.
But they still lose over two people on average; meaning it's STILL Killer-sided
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If I had twenty perk slots, that might work.
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@Batusalen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688500#Comment_3688500
That's like playing Fortnite and uninstalling it because you don't know what you are doing and get killed not even one minute into the match because, well, you are a noob that doesn't know what you are doing. The reason to keep playing the "trash" is to get good at it. When I started playing DbD as killer, if I had said to stop playing because I lost I wouldn't have lasted a week playing either.
I mean, I get it, competitive games are not for everybody but you should blame the player, not the game.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688494#Comment_3688494
That he is wrong in the "enjoying losing" part, but right in everything else. Nobody likes losing, but it is part of any competitive game, and talking like you are right now only makes you look like someone who thinks they are entitled to "have fun" (win) in a multiplayer competitive game just because "you paid for it".
I hardly think that telling them they wasted twenty minutes for that experience is going to be much of an encouragement.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3688158#Comment_3688158
The stats reflect the average level of play, which is low. In top level matches, it is clearly survivor-sided.
We have high-mmr stats and they say otherwise.
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@Archael said:
There is one thing - stop playing this game. And honestly, i would, and i will if such things will be more common in my games. I find campers and tunnelers very rarely, maybe one in 10 games as surv, and 0 when playing as killer :o yet its still very frustrating to make one mistake in first minute of the trial and spend test of the game hanging on a hook, not being able to play a game i payed for... But yeah, those are rare ocasions in my mmr. I can play and have some fun.
What would you say to someone who tells you that "making a mistake and hanging on the hook for the rest of the trial" is the game you payed for and that you should be enjoying yourself?
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687727#Comment_3687727
The majority of maps favor survivor
Most maps are fair, actually.
Likewise, we have over a sixty percent kill rate on average, so the game factually doesn't favor Survivor.
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@Nick said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687720#Comment_3687720
You completely missed the point of the post, Pulsar. As did the 21 people who liked your reply.
"You know how killer’s “meta” builds are basically 4 gen slow downs? Well this is the survivor equivalent of that, but you don’t see survivors running this or is even considered meta, why?"
- He's didn't say prove is good, he's asking why the killer's meta is 4 gen slow down, but the survivor's meta isn't 4 gen speed perks. Well, that's because survivors have “DS, OTR, DH, Adrenaline” (as he mentioned straight after). And then he continues with:
"Now imagine killers have the opposite equivalent of “DS, OTR, DH, Adrenaline” basically 4 perks to ensure you can tunnel out a survivor. Oh ya and now imagine the killer have that times 4, that’s survivor meta for you."
They literally argued that Prove was good.
Survivors aren't running gen speed perks because they need to stop themselves from being deleted out of the game within the first three minutes; and as for the final point, that's literally what we have now.
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@concubined said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687743#Comment_3687743
- first of all, no way you just compared prove to shattered hope, you see a boon maybe once in 15 games and you waste a perk slot to “counter it” when they can just put it on another totem which you then have to waste time destroying again but there are 7 generators in every game and 4 survivors chances are likely there’ll be times where two are doubled up on a gen and if you think gen progression perks aren’t viable and not worth running then don’t worry about gen regression perks.
2. I watched his stream, him reviewing the game and his after thoughts. He was giving it his all. Let’s be real here, a comp team having ds otr on each and everyone of the survivor is an unwinnable game for even the top tier comp killers, that’s why in competitive settings there are rules implemented. And no way Momo would’ve lost if they didn’t all have ds otr, and I know you at least know that.
3. “Dh is bad” another opinion that’s subjective. Definition of the word subjective from Oxford language dictionary : based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions.4. Thank you for agreeing. If you somehow debated with me on that that’d be concerning
1.) Yes, I did. If Survivors are using Prove consistently, they aren't being efficient. It is NEVER efficient to group up on any gen besides the last one. Prove saves VERY little time, something like seven seconds. It's a TERRIBLE perk and is a complete noob trap. It's something that both Killers and Survivors see and go, "Here, this one speeds up gens, it's the problem/solution!"
2.) He didn't take them seriously at first. After they started winning, he started malding and got tilted. I can't really blame him, I'd be pissed as ######### too, but he let that affect him and it shows. He beat teams like that before with little to no difficulty, so cherry-picking a single game out of two thousand is laughable and disingenuous.
3.) If you're gonna be nitpicky semantic about opinions, literally every point you tried to make in your original argument is an opinion.
4.) Yeah, that was literally my point in bringing it up. There's supposed to be some difference in power, but not the gulf that we have right now.
- first of all, no way you just compared prove to shattered hope, you see a boon maybe once in 15 games and you waste a perk slot to “counter it” when they can just put it on another totem which you then have to waste time destroying again but there are 7 generators in every game and 4 survivors chances are likely there’ll be times where two are doubled up on a gen and if you think gen progression perks aren’t viable and not worth running then don’t worry about gen regression perks.
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@BlightedTrapper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687768#Comment_3687768
I'm curious what you would consider a "bad" perk? A very experienced player like Otzdarva considers it the 12th strongest survivor perk. Would you argue he's completely wrong, or is any perk outside of tippy top tier bad in your eyes?
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/XY513W2I9YDO/otz-tier-list.jpeg
Because Otz isn't ranking based off of usefulness in an average match. He's basing it off of his own experiences, which, fair enough.
To your point,
Is Hyperfocus OP when used correctly? Yes, but it's inconsistent and difficult to use, so it ranks below a perk like Dramaturgy. Dramaturgy is not weak, it's not strong; it's consistent. That's how I view DH, strong in its ideal perfect world, but not worth it over safer options.
I do not agree with a lot of the perks on his list. I'd drop Deli and UB and put in FTP, Buckle Up and Background Player, for example.
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@Yagot said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687823#Comment_3687823
What? DS is comfortably meta at the moment. It's an S tier perk already, so that's why it's strange to see it getting buffs
DS is maybe B-tier against someone like Trapper and F-tier against any Killer higher than B-tier.
This DS won't be much better, but it's something I suppose.
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@BlightedTrapper said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687637#Comment_3687637
But Dead Hard is still good? Maybe not absolute top of the meta like it was for half a decade, but still powerful.
It isn't.
In a total vacuum, it's good, not in actuality.
You either need to make a read, which is extremely difficult or react to an attack which is even more difficult. You also need to have been hooked, you can't be Exhausted, it can't be against certain Killers, you can't be in Deep Wounds and if the Killer has ping over 90 ms it won't work.
So yes, the perk is strong in a vacuum, but it's highly restrictive nature kneecaps it's consistency causing it to be bad.
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@concubined said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687720#Comment_3687720
”prove is not good lol” , an opinion, subjective
“tunneling isn’t good for the game” an opinion, subjective and differs based on the situation presented“Can’t be solved via perks” but a killer tunneling someone with ds otr dh basically just loses way too much time so he goes to the next guy, oh looky he also has ds otr dh, next guy, next guy, next guy, oops the gens are all gone? Prime example is Momoseventh losing his 1900+ blight win streak because everyone had otr ds (and that’s with the 3 seconds ds for future readers)
killer perks has to be “stronger, by design” because survivors 16 perks while the killer has only 4Prove isn't even decent unless you are all stacking on a final gen, in which case other perks do it better. Saying that's subjective is like you saying, "Shattered Hope is not good" and then me saying, "That's an opinion actually, the perk is good!"
Momo lost because he threw. He didn't take them seriously and he got complacent. If you have multiple people with DS and OTR up, YOU ARE WINNING THE GAME. DH is bad, any perk that relies on ping is fundamentally bad.
Yes, obviously they need to be somewhat stronger by design.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3687631#Comment_3687631
If you’re talking about the quantity of changes, don’t bother. Survivor changes are almost always more impactful. Survivors get basekit BT, DS, off the record (which will 100% be abused by sweat squads), and maps generally favor survivor. Meanwhile killer gets .2% gen kick speed
Maps do not generally favor Survivors. Specific maps favor specific sides.
I honestly think you haven't played since 2018
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Prove is not good lol.
Tunneling isn't good for the game, it can't be solved via perks.
DS has a shorter stun time than listed due to the animation. It's something around 1.5 seconds; which is literally nothing.
Killers already have that meta build. It's called stacking four slowdowns (stronger than Survivor perks, by design) and then tunneling someone out immediately.