Pulsar
Pulsar
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A 4-man SWF with med-kits can be balanced, yes. How good are the players? What perks are they bringing? What map are they going to? What Killer are they playing against? What perks is the Killer running? What type of player is the Killer? Things are not so black and white. Unfortunately, you LITERALLY won't know unless you play that match. By dodging, you force someone else who (even by BHVR's standards) WAS NOT supposed to be there.
Could you try to state the last part differently? I do not understand it.
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@Beatricks said:
Pray do tell, why are we pretending in the year of our Lord 2023 that eScape Based MatchMaking is anywhere even close to functional?
I really hate how every month there's a different aspect that people latch onto as to why the games are so ridiculously lopsided. If a system works 0% of the time then it's not [temporary problem] that's causing the issue, but the design of the entire system. Even if you had a magic wand that ensured every single trial was between people with the same exact magical random numerical "skill" value, the end result would be laughably borked.
SBMM doesn't account for: killer, swf/soloq, playstyle (on both ends), perks, items, addons, maps, resource spawn RNG. Literally the most important aspects! Tournaments are basically played on the same 3 maps with incredibly severe restrictions because otherwise even the best Legion player in the world would maybe get 2 hooks if he is lucky.
The numbers don't mean anything and even if they did, which again, they don't, the system just ignores it altogether because the dwindling playerbase can't support 10 second matchmaking.
SBMM doesn't work, it has never worked and will never work, no matter how much people want to blame Killers for not playing Nurse with 10k hours and tunneling the first survivor at five gens with four slowdown perks.
I don't disagree that MMR is basically meaningless.
However, I HAVE noticed that my matches feel MUCH more fair when there are no lobby dodges.
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@Skill_issue said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372723#Comment_3372723
her chase builds are just as viable as any wraith/legion build, her stealth builds are viable as any killer who uses tinkerer or even wraith can do (just build a path with the drones and stay in the auras), and her protect builds put hag/trapper traps to protect hex totems/items to shame.
every build i listed in this post i have tried out and have had great success with all of them (usually 3 -4k)
i am glad you 4k most of your games and that you use a variety of builds. i agree with blight/wesker since they are high tier killers, nurse can't use exposed builds anymore (for the most part) and i not sure how you would use some of the builds listed with ghostface or myers. pyramid head i guess you could place his power around totems and items? not sure how viable he is at exposed/stealth builds (sorry i dont play pyramid head).
misunderstood the anti loop killer example my bad.
hey there are things i would like reworked as well but data needs to be collected
That was my point.
Most players aren't super good at the game. You can usually win games regardless of perks.
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@Skill_issue said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372709#Comment_3372709
i am glad you enjoy deathslinger...what builds do you use with him? is there enough variety?
well if you play enough i am sure you will face enough blights, nurses, and spirits with mostly the exact same builds.
so when you hate a killer you prefer they just disappear like the twins instead of rework them? circle of healing killed off a lot of hit and run playstyles(wraith/hag/twins) and i hate that perk because it has made tunneling (to not lose chase progress) more common.
if all you see is a just a 3 gen killer then can you explain all of the other builds that i have listed? I would love to see which other killer you can list as many different and viable playstyles and still be effective as a killer.
You can slap builds on any Killer. Literally none of the ones you've presented other than the totem one are remotely viable. Even the totem one is gimmicky. I can put all these builds on Blight, Wesker, Legion, Nurse, Ghostface, Myers, Pyramid Head and 4K most games.
I don't play Deathslinger. You asked if I would rather have another anti-loop Killer, I gave an example.
Oh, I'd like her to be reworked. Her design is awful and there's no salvaging it. Realistically, that's not going to happen at this point, not any time soon.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372694#Comment_3372694
It's not victim complex, it's actually understanding the games balance. Instead of having a rational discourse you chose to name and shame.
It's not players wanting easy games, it's you not understanding the games balance and instead deciding to shame others who take issue with it because you disagree.
I'm well aware of the balance of the game. It's currently slightly Killer-sided at the average level, fairly Survivor-sided at the top level and very Killer-sided at the lower levels.
Unfortunately, it really does come down to most people wanting easy games. Again, I get it. Losing isn't usually fun. A learning experience? Sure, but not fun. A lot of people don't have time for that and just want to hop on, play a couple rounds and win.
They'd rather damn someone else who is less experienced than try.
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@Skill_issue said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372703#Comment_3372703
yes i am being sincere i love a killer with this much variety...the player chooses what style to utilize and the skull merchant offers that variety (more than the knight in many instances).
would you rather have another killer with harder counter play like the nurse? or another antiloop/ranged killer?
once gen kicking regression is nerfed (just wait) you might not hate her as much
Yes, I would rather have Deathslinger than Skull Merchant.
Better looks, better atmosphere, better power and better lore. Literally a straight upgrade.
I'd rather have literally any other Killer other than release Legion over SM.
I won't hate her as much because she won't be played at all. She'll be like Twins after CoH. Completely dead and nowhere to be seen.
Her entire power revolves around holding a 3 gen. When that gets taken away, she'll just be an M1 Killer.
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@Skill_issue said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372689#Comment_3372689
she can use drones on franklin demised items and hex totems as well (i had fun running these builds last night)
any killer can make the game a miserable experience whether it is using a 3 gen build/tunneling/camping/slugging ...i am providing alternative builds which are to promote fun in playing the game
"bhvr honestly thank you for such a varied killer."
You are encouraging horrible design. You can certainly feel free to like and enjoy this Killer, but her design is objectively awful.
Using drones on Franklin's items is not a viable build. The totem build is SLIGHTLY better but not by much.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372683#Comment_3372683
I actually think it's quite selfish to expect that killer to suffer through an extremely unbalanced match. Stop blaming the victim and focus on the source, which is whoever is in charge of balancing.
You can usually tell more often than not if it's a swf. You also didn't address the item problem at all.
"Refusing to try" Just lol.
No, it's actually having a good understanding of the games balance and wanting a fair and balanced match where both sides get an equal chance of winning. You just want the killer to suffer so someone else doesn't have to suffer. That's twisted.
The rational response here would be to push for balance changes that would make killers not feel like they need to dodge in order to get balanced matches.
A little sad, but very informative.
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Adding my 2 cents, BHVR please never make a Killer like SM again.
She's created some of the most miserable experiences I've had and the worst part is that it's really her only viable playstyle. She EXCELS at holding 3-gens and is so ######### at everything else.
She can't even get buffed because any buffs will either make her into Knight or make her even better in a 3-gen.
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@Blueberry said:
I think it has more to do with items or looking like a swf than it does prestige.
"Personally, I think that if you dodge (assuming you don't see a potential cheater) you are knowingly and purposefully screwing up the system."
I disagree with this. The entity at fault is the game being poorly balanced and people having to dodge matches the game isn't balanced for. They're doing the work the balance team should be doing.
This would be like saying if I'm in a 4 man swf with 4 medkits the killer is the bad person for dodging, of which I whole heartedly disagree with. He is absolutely justified in dodging that. The game isn't balanced for that.
He's damning a (likely) less experienced player.
You don't have to dodge. You don't know it's a SWF. You're just refusing to even TRY to improve and have decided to be utterly selfish and search for an easy game while simultaneously screwing over FIVE other people.
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Couple of extremely high level teams have tried to break SM 3-gens. I think Otz spoke about it briefly.
None have managed it in less than twenty minutes. Most can't break them at all. Hens did an experiment to see if he could just hold a 3-gen until the server closed. Very possible.
That shouldn't be a thing. Hour-long games need togo, full stop, end of discussion.
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@Marc_go_solo said:
I rarely see any lobby dodging and I never dodge myself. However I don't see a problem with dodging lobbies, especially if someone has been having a crap time of it and the flashlights cause them some anxiety. It's if someone disconnects during a trial which vexes me (although sometimes that cannot be helped).
Dodging lobbies seems to massively negatively impact match quality.
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@kingcarl2012 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/368180/lobby-dodging-how-often-does-it-happen
For me it depends on a few factors,
1. If they use anonymous mode I dodge.
I'm a console guy, we not only dont have anon mode but also cant just change names on a whim, so identity integrity means something to me and if you hide yours I am gonna assume you are doing it for shady reasons
2. If they do the last second swap I'm out.
This is just straight scummy and you deserve it.
3. IF the incentive is at 100% on either side that can make MMR a crapshoot any ways, then I MAY consider dodging based on prestige or TTV depending on how my last several matches have gone, and what killer I am playing.
Half of my killers still dont have general perks or any add ons from prestiging pre patch to get P3 for tier 3 perks across the board, and since build strength and add ons arent factored in to MMR, I reserve the right to dodge with my add-onless Pig/Doctor/ Sadako/ etc.
Edit to clarify.
My highest killer is Demo at like P10, Surv is Kate at like P12.
When I say high prestige, I refer to 35+ which is in comparison to my own levels
At this point, I HAVE to last second swap because I'll get dodged to infinity.
I'm also on Console, Anon Mode is largely used by people who don't want to get flamed. If I could use it, I would.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372481#Comment_3372481
Do you actually ever get a lobby that suits your needs?
Yeah, that's not even dodging, that's lobby shopping.
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@Tostapane said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3372404#Comment_3372404
Then why it's so popular? This is the main question: if there are better perks out there, why most of the survivors out there will take this perk instead of choosing another exhaustion perk?
Idk, why do people still insist on using Self-Care
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@HugTechLover said:
There’s 3 p100’s in our SWF and we get dodged quite a few times. Upwards of 6-7 dodges sometimes before we get a killer that sticks.
The skill of the killer when this happens is usually not on the same level as our team and it can be a bit unfun.
It's unfortunate.
I've noticed my Survivor games are a complete crapshoot after the first dodge or two. We got someone with less than a day played on Killer the other day, which was very unfortunate.
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@RhodosGuard said:
"If you refuse to optimize you shouldnt be upset that the game isnt fun" is not as strong as an argument as you think.
Tell me, why is Knight oppressive in chases.
He is basically a M1. If he goes into his power, he doesnt see you, he only hears, and he goes into a static animation and you can just run. Even better if you just make a 90° turn any direction.
The main element of chases is pallettes (and maybe vaults)
At Vaults Killers are baseline disadvantaged because they cant rush or go fast unless you play specific Killers or take the Clown Perk.
At pallettes you have literally 0 power. You either need to win the chase before a pallette or be forced into a lose-lose every time. You Either enter Pallette and get stunned, you loop around pallette and can only win if the survivor is bad, they drop pallette early and you need to either break pallette, and give them a headstart to the next pallette (or get blinded), or you need to abandon chase.
You can play the game by flowchart and win. And while you are in chase the others pop gen after gen.
Rebalancing the game should be the core aspect when killers base kits are doomed to fail.
The problem isnt being bad the problem being that your performance depends more on surv skill than your own.
People like to say the game is about mindgames, but it isn't. It's a reaction game, and survivors are always free to react.
You wanna deny that survs are catered to, but when was the last time a killer perk became baseline and when the last a survivor perk became baseline?
If you aren't going to play optimally against optimal players, you shouldn't expect to win sorry.
Knight excels at making dead zones. Having a Survivor be chased by, essentially, two Killers is pretty strong. They are forced to leave loops and if they don't, they get hit. Carnifex breaks pallets almost instantly and Assassin is almost guaranteed a hit.
Pallets are also a guaranteed hit for Knight if the Survivor stays. I'd recommend trying to master Knight before you knock him.
You can force Survivors to react. It's something I'm good at. Stressing people out and forcing them to make decisions in a panic will almost always benefit you.
Also, Killers got two stacks of STBFL and part of Brutal Strength basekit.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3371174#Comment_3371174
and how do you know this?
Through playing the game for 5K hours over the last five years.
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@waffleminion said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3371276#Comment_3371276
I'm sure there's some way to block outgoing audio outside the application when the app is running. Enough reports a team member would review that survivor group. Stop asking stupid questions and use you're brain a bit
Ah, the hostility and for what?
DBD would need to exert an unprecedented amount of control over Sony and Microsoft in order to restrict party chat. I'm afraid that simply isn't going to happen. Likewise, the Steam player count numbers would PLUMMET if the game not only punished you for daring to have friends but also invasively controlled aspects of your PC.
What you've proposed is one-way express ticket to a dead game.
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@waffleminion said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3371269#Comment_3371269
Completely disagree, using a 3rd party means to communicate which in turn tips the balancing and eliminates the need for a ton of perks to help know where your team is so you can run a bunch of OP perks making the match just completely unfun for the killer should be 1000% bannable if a proximity chat was ever implemented.
Mhmmm.
So then why was it added?
And how do you propose we possibly regulate it? You can't circumvent Xbox or Playstations parry chat systems.
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These are all classic new player issues.
Using Discord or PSN or Xbox Live Party Chat shouldn't be bannable EVER. That's a terrible idea and it has been suggested ad nauseam for 7 years by people in your exact position.
The game is actually in a pretty good spot balance-wise. Definitely the best it's ever been. Against the vast majority of players, every Killer is viable.
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@NewPlayer100102 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3371176#Comment_3371176
No, its not.
Most mobile games use an incentive system to get players to engage with new content.
In this case, I said to pay with auric cells.
You could instead have a ladder with skins available for a rotating roster of the killers in the SWF mode. Both sides could earn the rewards. I believe players would line up to engage in this. They would gladly play harder matches for cool items, either via currency or directly via status skin reward. It doesn't make a difference how they incentive players to play the new match, only that they commit to doing it.
It would also be low cost for the developers, maybe a 3 month cycle and the top 100 get new skins in color A, top 300 in color B. and so on. Adjusting the system until numbers hit as required.
There is no punishment here, not even a nerf.
All this would do is set expectations for match behavior before pushing ready, and this alone would reduce complaints. People complain most when reality does not line up with expectations, not when they encounter some objective unfair system or concept.
As for idiots that chose to play downward and pick on casual players of either side in the non competitive mode no system is perfect, they will be around, at least they won't be rewarded for being dicks.
You're damning people to extremely long queues and permantely sweaty games because they dared to play with their friends.
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@Phasmamain said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3370378#Comment_3370378
Yeah that goes for both sides because for some reason people have trouble accepting losses in a game so laden with rng and unwinnable situations
Honestly if I notice a clear Cob overcharge 3 gen I just give up. Might as well save myself the time
Most of the time it's not worth the frustration of trying to break it.
So, agreed.
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@NewPlayer100102 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3371121#Comment_3371121
Ideally give them a separate Queue.
Start having Killers and SWF fight over auric cells, maybe like 4 available per match(In the SWF queue only).
My thinking is everyone will have better match quality, because you can decide to face the same style of team each time. Your skills will grow due to exposure to opposition.
That's an awful idea.
You can't punish people for playing with their friends.
There also absolutely no incentive to play against SWF, Killers will likely just sweat against Solo Q and decimate the EscapeRates in that queue while SWF's wait 20 minutes for a match
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3368526#Comment_3368526
You can play almost every single Killer at a high level and do perfectly fine in 95% of your games.
What does doing perfectly fine mean? What is the end score?
You can get a 2K+ with 7+ hooks in most games.
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I would say so, yes.
Survivor is more frustrating and Killer is more stressful
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@Tsulan said:
Every single big streamer i know about has been complaining about getting DDoSed for years. Most have been using VPNs for that very reason. Did they all stop using VPNs or what happend?
They've been either getting through the VPNs or targeting players in their games, ensuring that they cannot actually play DBD.
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I've been hit off a lot before.
It sucks, BHVR needs to get on this fast.
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@BlightedDolphin said:
Killers holding 3 gens for over 30 mins is a problem, and this is coming from a killer main perspective. If the best way to win is to bore everyone into disconnecting then there is an issue that I can understand people hating.
There is nothing wrong with playing around a 3 gen or playing patiently, it’s only a problem when killers drag the game out for longer than necessary or refuse to end it.
Their next line will be about how Survivors could just offer themselves up if it inconveniences them so much to let the Killer play how they want.
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Lithe, Distortion, Deja Vu and Windows.
Usually with a Common Med-kit.
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@bm33 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3370279#Comment_3370279
Every time I see someone call you a survivor main I can't help but laugh. Console optimization post majority of the videos you shared were you playing killer.
It's pretty funny, gotta say.
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@Devilishly_Rowdy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3370262#Comment_3370262
Yeah survivors just got basekit bt and not literally every information about the match on their hud right? "Game's shouldn't take 30+ mins" And gens shouldn't be completed in 5 mins either but they do don't they? Perks that enable 3 gen playstyle should be looked at closely according to you, but you say dead hard is fine. I wonder what side you main lol. Ignoring facts as usual and acting all righteous.
I'm sure you'd be surprised to learn I'm quite the Killer main.
Also, ad hominem and whataboutism.
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A Killer who finds three gens at the beginning of the match and never leaves is not something to be encouraged.
Any perks or powers that enable that style of play should be looked at closely. Games should not be taking 30+ minutes.
Likewise, Survivors got basekit BT. That's it and it can be completely negated by tunneling off of hook, ironically.
Honestly, these posts are quite entertaining. This is basically the Killer version of Sluzzy, RIP.
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@Nazzzak said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3369579#Comment_3369579
That chart was from Sept '22. The Eruption/gen kick meta really only became popular around Nov '22. I'd wager kill rates would have actually increased at that time and probably are falling back to around the same rates as the image
I suppose we shall see.
Until we see those stats, this is all conjecture.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3367930#Comment_3367930
I mean... Freddy was nerfed one week after his release. Solely because survivors mass disconnected against him during a free weekend.
Back then there was no dc penalty.
So one example from, what, six years ago?
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First off, us vs them, very cool.
Secondly, Killer in my opinion, only got into an acceptable state less than two years ago.
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Guarding 3-gens from the start of the game until the bitter end over an hour later needs to go.
Anything that enables that style of play should be looked at.
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Killers were buffed.
Latest stats show that Survivors have only a 38% escape rate at high MMR.
Due to the Eruption change and the buff to Solo's, I'd expect the Kill Rates to even out around 57%. However, that's completely speculation. I'd expect that the Devs will want to wait and see how the Kill Rates look. I'd expect changes in the next Chapter release or after, as that gives adequate time to allow things to settle in a post-Eruption world.
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All of those usage rates look fine to me.
No huge outliers at above 50%.
Also, NightLight isn't a good representation of the whole game. It's incredibly small and only attracts a dedicated group of people.
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I'm also having this issue on Xbox.
l'll let you know if I find a solution.
It's likely the issue is not on our end and there may be nothing to do except wait.
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3368690#Comment_3368690
No thanks. Get me classic Dracula instead.
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@Chocolate_Cosmos said:
You can fix her but you have to change lot of things.
First, make her drone zone buff Skull Merchant in chase, similar how her two very rare addons do, but better and more powerfull (Haste + Action speed bonus). Rework these two addons.
Second, make her drones cover a bit bigger zone (for loops and main buildings, etc.), However increase the minimum distance from each drone by a lot. So you can't just put drone one after another next to every close gen. You could still cover some gens but they would have to be some distance from each other (in 3-gen, max 2 gens covered by drones on avarage). Also increase her cooldown for getting the drones back and reactivating them (by few extra seconds) so she can't keep them online as offten.
Third, either keep the Lock On Exposed or rework it so it is easier to get Lock On but it doesn't expose anymore, maybe Hindres them instead for several seconds (30?).
She would still be area control killer but not so campy and also be able to chase people more.
So then she's basically just Knight?
I mean, I guess that's better but idk if Knight is the standard we should shoot for.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3368667#Comment_3368667
While this is true, Skull Merchant is the only Killer since old Legion which really let me feel that I dont want to play the game. Not that other things in the game have not been unfun either, but most of them involve the game being over pretty fast or at least in a reasonable time. (Being slugged for 4 minutes is still better than being stuck in a game for 40+ minutes...)
Due to my (somewhat) unique situation of playing on Console, Nemesis made me feel that way.
Play DBD and get your Xbox melted or don't play DBD and keep the Xbox. Wasn't much of a choice
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@Emeal said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3368674#Comment_3368674
A Dio inspired Mori would not be a bad thing.
Muda'Muda'Muda'Muda'Muda'Muda'Muda'Muda'Muda'Muda'Muda'Muda'Muda'Muda'Muda'Muda'Muda'Muda'Muda'Muda'Muda'
ROADE ROLLAR
WRYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYyyy
At that point, just get us Part 1 Dio as a Killer.
Sassy #########-talking British vampire? Yes please.
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@Emeal said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/H8MWVN43BFGL/image.png
bHVR has guts for stepping outside traditional iconic horror aesthetic.
at this point, i just see trickster as off-brand dio
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I'm one more 45-minute game away from saying ######### it and I want her to be nuked from orbit.
Ultimately, there's no way to fix her without completely re-designing her. No matter what you buff on her, you buff her ability to hold 3-gens and stall out games for an eternity.
That's a huge design problem.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3368637#Comment_3368637
Yeah i fear that too
Reminds me when everybody was doing the moonwalking thing with Legion and I who didn't plan to do that didn't get to play the game
I think old Legion was on a whole other level than SM.
Even if you DIDN'T play like that, Old Legion was still really #########
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@Wexton said:
Agreed, also old Ormond looks so much better that it's painful. I wasn't around in those days, and I still think Ormond still looks okay, but the old version looks just like a straight upgrade to the current version. Same with coldwind.
Visually, I'd agree with Coldwind.
I quite like Ormonds aesthetic right now though. It feels cold.
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Two seconds is being generous.
It's really like a one second loop. Just like that damn washing machine they gave to Ghostface