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@TrevorLahey93 said:
100% agree. An rng based game can t be competitive just make the damn game fun and give up the stupid dbd esports dream
It can have an e-sport side to it, but they really need to add a seperate gamemode for that. This game can be set in a tournament setting. In fact, I am certain that if there was a competitive gamemode to DBD, there would be more pressure into fixing certain exploits that have been in the game for over a year, because there would be a dedicated group that's going to seek all the exploits they possibly can to get the upperhand.
Having a competitive scene isnt bad, but the only menu button that supports true competitive play is "kill your friends". The MMR system would be fine as it is right now if there was a button called "ranked play".
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@TicTac said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2081248#Comment_2081248
There is a big discussion about a win in dbd, but if we are honest in other games you would say a rank up is a win and nobody would disagree. Just because many are not satisfied with that and make their own win condition (myself included) doesnt mean that their is no official condition. Now you could say every player could pip in the same match etc. But even a bad designed win condition is still a win condition.
But when we discuss about this we waste too much time.
So i will ask two questions.
What is the conclusion when dbd is not a party game?
And what are other party games? (Fall guys or mario party have a win condition)
"What is the conclusion when dbd is not a party game?"
I mean, the evidence already points to it being a party game. That's like saying "what is the conclusion when the sky is not blue". All the evidence points to the sky being blue.
"And what are other party games? (Fall guys or mario party have a win condition)"
This falls back to your previously mentioned "if we are honest in other games you would say a rank up is a win and nobody would disagree.".
This is the true win condition set by the game. You gain pips. There is nothing you gain by gaining pips other than bragging rights, you can face people who spend 500 hours playing the game having the same amount of pips as someone who played 5000 hours and they both would have equal chances of "winning". But what overal action makes you gain pips? That is what I mean with there being no real win-condition. You can farm all game as a killer and still earn a pip, you can rush kills and earn a pip, you can stand afk for 10 minutes for a NOED+Bloodwarden game and still earn a pip(it would depend mostly on how quick survivors finish gens, sure, but its still a pip). Not all party games have a single winner, not all party games have multiple winners. But only in party games can everyone win. If you were to have equal stars and coins at the end of mario party, everyone would be declared the winner.
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@Mr_K said:
Mario 64 is competitive.
Anything can be made competitive. Even if that wasn't the design.
It's speedrunning site is competitive. Which is a dedicated third party group. The game itself is not competitive, which is my point.
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@TicTac said:
DbD has no competitive playlist. But i dont understand your point. What changes that?
Competition requires something to compete for. The only thing you're competing for is an arbitrary definition you have set for yourself. This is why basement bubba protecting his chest being a "win" is a valid playstyle. I could win 10000 games in a row with basement bubba, and it wouldnt matter a bit.
As it stands right now, Tetris is more competitive than DBD.
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@MrSmashem said:
Dude, its PVP; PVP is inherently competitive. Imbalanced and not ready for tourney play sure, but definitely a competitive game by definition. No amount of RNG, imbalance or differing objectives negates the competitive nature of the game, they just dictate how fair the competition is.
Mario Party is also PVP. Yet not a competitive game. Opposition is not competition.
You can personally infer opposition to be competition, but that is a personal opinion. Competition requires something to compete for. There is nothing you're competing for.
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@Yords said:
Well BHVR sure treats it as one with the attempts at trying to give it a successful mmr or SBM system.
Those are attempts to make matchmaking more fun in general tho. I've had games as a rank 1 survivor facing a rank 13 killer. Or a rank 1 killer facing rank 20 survivors. Matchmaking needs some skill related search engine to prevent unfun games from happening too often. But matchmaking shouldnt be dictated by mmr.
Just like Matchmaking used to be dictated by rank and rank alone, it wasnt fun. Matchmaking in dbd needs to be a mix of playtime, skill and fun rating(yes, the fun rating post-match actually has impact on your future games, especially since the devs love to use those rating systems to see whether the game is fun or not, so anyone disliking current hag or spirit, make sure to rate it 1/5 every game).
If they simply add a gamemode that is purely about MMR, then all competitive players would have a place they can be, while also removing quite a hefty chunk of sweaty players from normal matchmaking. Making the average game more fun to play.
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@Phasmamain said:
When this game gets really competitive it will probably die tbh
I dont think it will, I think adding a ranked gamemode would increase the overall fun as competitive players have a place to play extremely sweaty builds. They have a working MMR system that could easily work in a ranked setting. Once they have competitive players seperated from casual players, that is when you can truly see the difference between perks and killers being balanced or not, because competitive players will only want to use the best builds and killers against each other, making it also easier to balance certain perks, items and addons.
Right now, statistics are a bit scewed, because extremely overpowered builds get hidden by the masses. Which is why they say Pig isnt a weak killer, even though she objectively is a weak killer. She is effective at getting kills, purely because her power allows her to extend the game much longer. But that extension is even more RNG than actual RNG because keys are guaranteed to be in a specific box, rather than a chance of the key being in any box.
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@bobspongesweatpants said:
Thinning the herd is a proven tactic in nature and in war.
This is not the issue, the issue is that it's already relatively easy on most killers to thin the herd, but on Spirit, her power seems to be designed to thin the herd more effectively.
If dying survivors gave surviving survivors a tiny buff in objective speed, giving players a reason to not rush the weakest player out of the match, would already make the game so much better. And I'm talking 10-15% increase per player per sacrificed survivor, which isnt too bad considering that only adds up to 30-45% of a player, meaning you still reduce the total power survivors have over the entire map while slightly increasing local power.
Sure, that would increase slugging, but being slugged when you're dead on hook isnt too bad in most cases. At least you end up having more time to earn a black pip before being rushed out.
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@Lord_Tony said:
killer should feel scary during EGC
the fact survivors can just tank a hit and head for the gate without fear is just ridiculous
The killer had all game to be scary. The EGC would make a killer more scary if the killer had been scary prior in the game. If the killer wasnt scary during the game, there is no reason for the killer to also be scary during the EGC.
I've had people practically ######### their pants and make them second guess my next move the entire match because the power being very strong as long as no one had the option to get out of the match, where the EGC meant they could finally escape.
All the EGC/post-last gen means is that anything goes. Bodyblocking the killer to help a teammate out of the game? No problem. Killers facecamping the hook with noed? They have nothing else to do, so why not?
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@TheClownIsKing said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2061764#Comment_2061764
I find them frustrating.
Pounce, miss, crush. Over and over again. It doesn’t matter how many different ways I try to bait or track the survivors movements, they just step left or right. That’s it. That’s all they need to do. No skill. Just immediately move left or right the second they see Victor initiative the pounce. They’re even doing this when I am right behind them.
I mean, the pound miss crush is something that happens on pc too tho. Victor isnt easy to aim with unless you hold his aim long enough that survivors could hide behind objects.
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@hardtimefun said:
MANY post saying he is weak, MANY videos saying he is weak, MANY saying ricochet should be base kit
MANY MANY MANY of everything, hey ricochet now ricochet twice.
MANY gived suggestions about how to improve the killer, gave ideas and suggestions to make the killer more unique and viable, it all got ignored ONCE AGAIN
I am done giving feedback to this game, or bug reports, I lost all faith in the devs, the fact they ignored feedback on this weak killer crushed the very little I had left.
I disagree with ricochet being basekit. It's a really fun addon, but most people wanted the ricochet addons to be basekit because it would hit twice the amount of lacaration. So essentially people wanted less lacaration.
Personally, him being as fast as Nurse when throwing knives is my biggest issue. A lot of maps dont even allow you to slow down a tiny bit, let alone sub-100%. If his knives could damage within 4 hits, sure, 96% movespeed is needed.
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Yeah, I feel like hits that Huntress and Deathslinger can make can make are hits that Trickster should make. Right now its neither.
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@Yoonz said:
Don't play the Trickster then. People also called Freddy bad and then he turned into one of the easiest Killers to play in the game because of a few people whining about it before even giving anyone a chance to learn the new Killer.
I mean, old freddy lacked an instadown in the dreamworld. It would have made sense too, first part of the chase he spends time dragging you into his world, second part of the chase he downs you.
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@AsherFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2060265#Comment_2060265
So take the agency away from the killer due to the Survivor's bad play? I don't think that's a good idea.
No, in fact, it would allow the killer to guarantee the unhooker to be injured even if there is a bt
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@NuclearBurrito said:
Why is he slower in his throw mode? I understand him slowing down if he flurries, but why the initial slowdown? Doctor is slower when shocking, sure, but at least he's only slower when shocking people, let alone that his shocking interrupts people.
Basically, in order for a windup to be meaningful you need to have a reason not to always have the ability wound up.
The thing about this Killer is that the singular knives are kinda nothing. The flurry is his power, the only reason to even bring up singular knives is for clarification purposes and QoL.
The Clown's power, and also Freddy's power, both were determined to not need a meaningful windup in order to be balanced, since they are non-damaging slows. This is especially since such a windup negates the entire function of a slow in the first place. As such Freddy and Clown are both expected to have their power readied at all times and can be balanced around that.
They made this mistake with the Plague who's power injures a target and quickly learned their lesson. The trickster has a lethal power, so some caution with this sort of thing is justified.
Why is there such a long time between switching knives and main weapon?
Deathslinger is at least 10 times quicker and he can deal damage, so why such a long time between something that doesnt even deal damage? Let alone that Deathslinger gives deep wounds.
Deathslinger's dexterity is his entire gimmick. That is the only reason why he's ever played over Huntress. Do not compare deathslinger to the trickster.
Here's the thing about the trickster. When evaluating him, first look at the big picture. Why would you want to play a Killer with this concept over the Huntress (huntress being a baseline ranged killer)? Don't worry about the numbers, balance and design are two different concepts and you should not mix the two up.
The trickster has 2 unique advantages:
- Main event occasionally negating the mobility disadvantage of attack windups
- He doesn't need to redo his windup after an attack
You know what this makes him good at? It's not the 1v1 but rather he's better at AOE. His addons heavily support this too.
You're trying to buff up his 1v1, but that road leads to yet another Huntress. He's more comparable to the Plague than the Huntress in terms of niche. The primary difference compared to the plague being his unconditional ranged downing potential.
He has his problems obviously, him being weak is not in question, but you're trying to remove his weaknesses when it's better to exaggerate strengths.
Except for the accuracy thing. Idk why that's there either, flurry or otherwise.
But anyways, things like letting him hold his main event once it's built up, increasing his attack speed across the board ect would make him better at utilizing his unique traits rather than just making him a weaker version of an existing character like deathslinger.
The reason to not be in windup is to hit an m1, there is a cooldown between modes, so there is plenty of reasons to not constantly be holding m2. His power chains too slow to gain quick hits and you need to be up close on most maps where an m1 would grant the same
As for the singular knives, being able to tap while decreasing distance to gain a quick hit can be done if his accuracy wasnt trash. It's not just quality of live, assuming both slowdown is removed and accuracy is increased, you could punish survivors that are not hiding and even get a health state out of it, giving reason to his 110% movespeed.
And arguably, Freddy's and Clown's slowdown can guarantee a hit since it increases the speed difference from 15% to 35%, where Plague leaves an infection that increases the longer you're in chase. We had the PTB already pointing stuff like this out, the PTB is meant to show how lethal a killer's power can be. Even in the PTB he was underperforming quite hard to the point that people rather played other killers with his perks instead. My expectations from the PTB were that they would address the lack of lethality that he obviously doesnt have. Let alone that, once again, Deathslinger has much higher lethality and doesnt slowdown much at all.
"Deathslinger's dexterity is his entire gimmick. That is the only reason why he's ever played over Huntress. Do not compare deathslinger to the trickster."
My entire point revolves around Trickster needing dexterity. Any excuse made for Trickster can be waved away thanks to the existance of Deathslinger. He's not similar in his power, sure, but Deathslinger doesnt have any slowdowns at all and even if you added slowdowns to his power, he'd be more lethal than Trickster. That is why the comparison is made.
"The trickster has 2 unique advantages:
- Main event occasionally negating the mobility disadvantage of attack windups
- He doesn't need to redo his windup after an attack
You know what this makes him good at? It's not the 1v1 but rather he's better at AOE. His addons heavily support this too."
Easy rebuttal:
- Main event still moves you at only 97% movespeed, which is only slightly faster than Nurse and isnt accurate enough to guarantee a hit.
- That's the only advantage, but it's not really an attack untill it deals damage and survivors have invincibility frames after a damage state(let alone a 150% speedboost).
But add on to that: he LOSES Lacaration for no reason. Plague's infection only increases over time. Heck, Ghostface and wMyers can 99% an instadown, Legion and Deathslinger have mending that force survivors to spend time removing a status effect after a hit. Not a single killer has the downsides that Trickster has without being insanely powerful. Without his downsides, he is mid-tier at best. Now he isnt even viable unless you run Devour and are on an extremely open map with RNG in your favor. And he would be the first killer to rely on a hex perk to be "viable".
"You're trying to buff up his 1v1, but that road leads to yet another Huntress. He's more comparable to the Plague than the Huntress in terms of niche. The primary difference compared to the plague being his unconditional ranged downing potential."
All killers end up being buffed in their 1v1 capabilities. Either that, or his AoE needs to reach insane heights of expectations where his knive can deal splashdamage that covers entire T&L walls. His AoE ability is weaker than his 1v1, even if his addons imply that. In fact, I think if he didnt have access to his m1, this could be the first 120% killer in the game.
"but you're trying to remove his weaknesses when it's better to exaggerate strengths."
Have you seen the way this game is coded? Increasing his strengths to a point of significance would take a year to implement. Removing his weaknesses might take a week or 2 as you're only removing things. Let alone that he already has some weaknesses that I didnt include here. These were just the weaknesses that prevented me the most from getting hooks.
And no, his power is unique enough to not be a weaker deathslinger. Deathslinger can zone places where Trickster cant purely because he is taller. Trickster can damage people faster than Deathslinger can pull them in. Trickster could punish people for not being behind cover, while you can sidestep a deathslinger when you're not under cover. Trickster doesnt even need to reload between hits. That is probably the initial reason as to why lacaration hits dont apply mending and why it decreases. But there is no reason to decrease it, as the accuracy and speedreduction make it so hard to hit multiple blades in a row, that it's near impossible.
And as for your AoE argument, that only really applies if there is multiple survivors in one place. Never are there multiple survivors in one place. They always scatter and even if the rare occasion arises that they are together, lacaration decreases anyway.
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@AsherFrost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2060098#Comment_2060098
How do you suppose they should fix it? Not allow you to unhook a survivor if the killer is too close? Would just encourage camping. If your teammates are going to go for an unsafe unhook, that's on them, it's unfortunate that y'all have to pay the price, but that's how being on a team works.
Nah, transfer the damage hit to the unhooker should be enough.
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@WiiFitTrainer said:
This is exactly how I feel. My biggest gripe is all the unnecessary slowdowns he has when using knives which is to punishing considering his default speed and how many knives it takes to change health state.
I dont think he's a strong killer even with these changes, but weak killers should be able to exist in this game too. If a weak killer can hold his own, then its much easier to balance out killers.
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@EvanRaven said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2059946#Comment_2059946
that's your teammates' fault for farming you, not the game.
I mean, the game allowing it is at fault. It's punishing you for an action you dont have any control over.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2052695#Comment_2052695
It makes the killer more fun to play against, while also rewarding skill rather than just being a handout.
I mean...would it though? Cause all I'd see is people slapping on sloppy and/or bloodhound and being able to track even better than before. Similar to how some people already run stridor now to counter iron will. Yeah you'll get cucked by grass every now and then but that's why we still have audio.
It's a huuuuuuuuge stretch to call it a QoL change when it won't even guarantee that it'll be more fun/fair for survivors to face, nor would it be accepted by all Spirit players (though who cares about their feelings anyway). IMO a QoL change in this game (in regards to killers) can be defined by making an underperforming, add-on dependent killer's basekit better (while balancing out their add-ons to compensate, to promote add-on diversity) or otherwise making the end user experience/control feel more intuitive/less clunky/less disorienting. Your proposed Spirit change just seems like a change, and not a very well thought out one at that.
"Cause all I'd see is people slapping on sloppy and/or bloodhound and being able to track even better than before."
At least they'd have to be good enough to keep you injured the entire game and get hits on you while you're uninjured, which is better than people phasing, following the wrong scratchmarks for less than a second and correcting themselves without any real negative consequences.
"Similar to how some people already run stridor now to counter iron will."
As I've played Spirit with Stridor in customs with a friend(I've been at this for a while, testing out what exactly makes her so easy to play), and Stridor only really helps locating if you have a general direction on where a survivor is, or if you accidentally run past a survivor which you could already hear without Stridor anyway. Stridor is kinda worthless on blood tracking spirit, as you dont know the general direction of a survivor. Making her phasing while survivors are uninjured guesswork for both the killer and the survivor.
"when it won't even guarantee that it'll be more fun/fair for survivors to face"
I mean, during testing, even though I consider myself quite a good killer, my friend was able to make more significant plays while I played blood tracking spirit even though I was faster than he was when I played scratchmark tracking spirit.
Sure, this is mostly based on the opinion of 2 people who did some testing in a private setting. But even with the added speed of Mother daughter ring, bloodhound and sloppy, it took me significantly longer to go from uninjured to downed. The time from injured to downed was much faster, sure, but from uninjured to injured was much longer too. Besides, they could even make blood slightly less visible during her phasing if it's truly too hard to counter.
I mean, otherwise my argument would go to "remove scratchmarks during her phasing", but that would make her learning curve a bit too steep.
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@Mat_Sella said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2052699#Comment_2052699
except sloppy also reduces healing speed, so no, its not a moot point. it would make an op killer require this perk and make her even better. Stridor and Predator dont extend the game like sloppy does or prevent the survivors from being able to heal, which would be the one weakness of Spirit using blood to track with.
I mean, sure on one hand, but on the other hand, the game has items, you have other survivors. All you need is a location to heal up, and you're essentially untracable again. And it's a way for Spirit to slow down the game as its harder to track uninjured survivors.
Stridor and Predator heavily decrease the time it takes for Spirit to get hits, in both the uninjured AND injured state. Sloppy would only work as long as you're healthy.
Twins also forces survivors to heal up, and Twins arguably has a similar power. Victor is pretty much as fast as Spirit is, doesnt have a TR and is extremely hard to locate while he has build-in Bloodhound. Yet if you heal against Twins, the odds of a 3 man escape is quite likely, even if she has Sloppy. It's near impossible for Victor to track uninjured survivors.
Besides, Spirit being slightly stronger doesnt really matter too much, it's counterplay that matters most. You can counterplay a blood-tracking Spirit while uninjured and be harder to trace, while you can do the same with the blood as you can do with scratchmarks already, but you have to go for coin-flip "counterplays" by dropping pallets early or run very specific perks that are quite unused to counterplay a scratchmark tracking Spirit.
Besides, I rather face a Bloodhound, Sloppy Spirit any day, as it takes up 2 full perk slots to do something she's already good at without tracing blood or scratchmarks anyway.
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@Kellie said:
This is more of a buff than a QoL.
I mean, in that same sentiment, her addons get nerfed. Besides, it's only a buff if you're up close anyway, at which point footsteps would be audible.
Essentially, with this in mind, Spirit requires more skill to actually get hits and track survivors in the first place, as tracing blood, while it can be easier, can be quite hard too. A survivor can still turn a corner quickly, decide to stand still near a corner making a Spirit think they have turned the corner or trace back. It allows for counterplay, and that is really what Spirit needs.
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@HellDescent said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2052568#Comment_2052568
Bleeding happens at intervals, it's not constant. Which map has grass everywhere? If you have iron will and injured, you are not making breathing sounds. On top of that healthy survivors breathe at intervals.
You make this change and the same day every spirit wil be using bloodhound and sloppy butcher. Now you don't even need to use sound.
But she dedicates 2 perks that only work if the survivor is already injured. You know what she can do now? Run Predator, have the same effect regardless of the survivor bleeding or not. I rather force a killer to use 2 perks to have the same effect as 1 perk.
And like I said, YOU CAN HEAR FOOTSTEPS.
Iron Will not giving breathing sounds is a bug.
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@Mat_Sella said:
Then she runs Sloppy Butcher and the survivor now has a clear, easily trackable path that drips so frequently the survivor might as well have red paint on their feet
Ah, not unlike running Stridor that clearly gives away where a survivor is. Or not unlike running Predator in the current situation that essentially draws a straight line to the survivor.
Sloppy Butcher is a bit of a moot point.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2052558#Comment_2052558
I respect you going out of your way to list a whole bunch of old patch notes just to debate semantics but I still disagree on calling this specific change a QoL change.
I mean, I agree with it having a lot of balancing implications, especially as it raises the skill floor significantly, but from a developing perspective, it is QoL.
It's not really a nerf or a buff on the addons, it's not really a nerf or a buff on the power. It is a change that affects some things negatively for the killer but positively for the survivor, while also being positively for the killer and negatively for the survivor. That is what makes it a QoL. It makes the killer more fun to play against, while also rewarding skill rather than just being a handout.
Besides, those "old" patch notes are not that old, most are less than 1 year old.
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@bjorksnas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2052558#Comment_2052558
Quality of life is generally refered to as small buffs or changes for the enjoyment of gameplay, as many of the changed aspects weren't fair or enjoyable but didn't need to be completely removed only fine tuned
This change isn't a quality of life because it just completely changes an aspect of it
for example if this was a quality of life it might look something like this
Fathers glasses: Also applies a moderate hemorrhage effect for more consistent blood tracking
quality of life isn't nerfs to the base tracking abilities of killer powers
Its not a nerf tho
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@HellDescent said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2052509#Comment_2052509
So what would you do if injured survivor with iron will starts walking back at some point over his blood trail when you start phasing? How would you track him if you can't tell where he stopped running?
Survivors can already do this with scratchmarks. And you can tell where he stopped running because the blood stops there.
Besides, you can see grass move, you can hear footsteps and survivors breathe(there is a soundbug with Iron Will right now that fully removes breathing for some reason). Again, good spirit players tend to use Mother-daughter ring, having no scratchmarks AND no blood when they phase, and they can trace survivors even if they have Iron Will. The only issue with Iron Will right now is that there is 0 breathing for some reason.
Relying on scratchmarks as a Spirit is exactly my issue with lower skilled Spirits. At least killers tracking blood have tracking skills beyond scratchmarks. Scratchmarks is why green rank killers can reach red ranks easily as long as they play Spirit.
This is not a nerf. In fact, as other people have stated: "it's easier to track blood than scratchmarks", which is 100% true. Except that blood only appears if survivors are injured, meaning "bad" spirits are not able to dominate in red ranks just for playing spirit.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2052474#Comment_2052474
i mean the change itself is "small" but it's by no means a "QoL" change and has massive balancing implications that have already been pointed out by other people in the thread
Let me grab a small list QoL that had massive balancing implications:
- Disturbed Ward Pallet logic reduced to 2 pallets.
- Badham Preschool fence loop: shortened.
- Haddonfield corner fence vaults: Removed.
- Bear Traps can no longer be sabotaged.
- Bear Traps can be (re-)set without picking them up first.
- Bear Traps go back to where they were originally set instead of where they caught the survivor.
- The Killer will receive a noise notification when a Survivor starts cleansing any Hex Totem.(Thrill of the Hunt)
- The Wraith no longer disturbs Crows when passing near them while cloaked.
- The Wraith now starts a trial cloaked
- the Wailing Bell ringing audio is capped at 24 metres instead of formerly sounding map-wide.
- the *Wooosh* audio following cloaking is capped at 40 metres instead of formerly sounding map-wide.
- when cloaked, The Wraith can now interact with Props, which cause him to temporarily uncloak during the interaction.
- removed the Movement Speed penalty when cloaking.
- The Wraith's can now immediately attack/interact after uncloaking instead of having to wait 0.3 seconds.
- reduced the footstep audio.
- when cancelling the cloaking interaction, The Wraith can now attack/interact immediately rather than having to wait for the bell-stowing animation to finish.
- The Wraith now only uncloaks the necessary bits when interacting with Props when cloaked, instead of almost completely uncloaking.
- reduced the Reload time from 5 seconds to 3 seconds.(Clown, just to show that making an addon basekit is sometimes considered QoL)
So yes, it would be QoL.
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@HellDescent said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2052472#Comment_2052472
How is it not? You are removing one of her tracking abilities
And swapping it with another, that's not a nerf. If you can only play spirit because of scratchmarks when good spirits dont even need scratchmarks, all that says is that you're not a good spirit.
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@[Deleted User] said:
"small QoL change" btw
It is small. Just swapping blood and scratchmarks is quite a tiny change. No mechanics are altered.
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@HellDescent said:
Somehow I knew it would be another "nerf spirit" post not a qol change
How is it a nerf tho?
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@bjorksnas said:
Thats not even a quality of life change thats just a regular change
its a tiny change that Spirit already has access to. That is a QoL. Wraith's windstorm change is also QoL. They dont mechanically change the killer, they just alter a tiny part of their mechanics to make them feel better to play as or play against.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/237382/small-qol-change-for-spirit
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2052327#Comment_2052327
The best way to fix spirit by giving her counterplay without actually nerfing her directly is to give counterplay but for both sides.
Spirit has a passive phase, just add that to her power as well:
- Her base power lasts 5 seconds. Make it so you phase back in 3 times for .5 seconds
- Once at 1 second in
- Once at 2.5 seconds in
- Once 4 seconds in
When phasing back. Spirit keeps the movement speed bonus of her power but becomes visible to the survivors. However, she also is able to see the survivors. This gives counterplay to spirit. You know when she is using her power, and you can see her periodically for a short burst. This lets you know what direction she is going and gives you a chance to make a decision based on that, creating counterplay. But, maybe the spirit knows that because you saw her going one way, that you are going to go the other, so now when she phases back invisible, she doubles back, and lands a hit. But next time, you now know that she knows. So instead of doubling back, you keep going. This creates a mindgame and counterplay around her power while not actually nerfing her, because she gets the benefit of it as well.
I mean, catagorically, it would be a nerf, as you add counterplay. And I dont disagree, I've just been playing around in custom games as a spirit with a friend and just asked him to do his thing. One with father's glasses and mother daughter ring, and the other one with neither. I've had a harder time finding him with both addons even though I was faster. Sure, the chase was shorter, but me being able to see scratchmarks across the map while I was phasing made it very easy to locate him and shorten distance. with Father's glasses, I couldnt find him during phasing. I had to be out of phase to locate and then start phasing. Which, thanks to mother daughter ring was much quicker, but if I remove that movementspeed boost, it would take me significantly longer to just locate a survivor.
Spirit is already strong inside the chase, this change would only mean it's harder for her to locate survivors in the first place. She'd be significantly stronger once she lands a hit on you, but that would fit Spirit.
Essentially, harder to locate survivors, harder to track them while they are healthy while making the chase post-hit easier would not make her easier to play. Because the lower skilled spirits cant track blood well anyway, they just get free hits thanks to scratchmarks.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2052330#Comment_2052330
Great idea. Let me just heal in a Chase after getting hit.
No, really, Blood is easier to track. At least for Scratchmarks you can stop running and walk in another way when she is phasing. This does not work with Bloodtrails.
Yeah, and that maybe buys you 5 more seconds in a chase. Her not being able to track you down long distance as she can only track blood up close would actually buy a similar amount or more.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2052330#Comment_2052330
How is that any different than now when most spirits run the addon that eliminates scratch marks anyway?
Because she'd only be able to easily down you while you're already injured and bleeding. Now she can easily hit you twice thanks to scratchmarks. See your scratchmarks from a long distance while she's already phasing, causing her to catch survivors who dont expect her to be coming. If she cant see scratchmarks, you can freely run around during her phasing as she can only track your blood if she's nearby.
She'd be essentially just as strong close counters, but less powerful mapwide. It would be harder to fool her closeby, sure, but its much easier to fool her if you gained distance. Once a spirit closes distance, she can practically hear you anyway.
And besides, she'd be running slower than the addon that removes scratchmarks.
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@GannTM said:
No, tracking by blood is actually easier than scratch marks because blood is literally a direct trail. It would make Sloppy Butcher OP af on her if this was implemented. The real QoL change she needs is to actually take skill to play and not completely miserable to go against.
Easy counter: heal up.
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@Reinami said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/237382/small-qol-change-for-spirit
This is not how to fix her, if anything this is a buff. Blood is far easier to track than scratch marks.
Blood is harder to track in most maps, let alone that you can still run back into your own blood to hide it and that you need to stand close to see it. Scratchmarks are visible on any map, from a very long distance.
Adding to that that No Mither would actually be a very strong perk against Spirit in this case, as you dont drop blood at all AND have quiter sounds.
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@NoOneKnowsNova said:
I think this would be a step in the right direction, and it shouldn't be too hard to code as Victor has code similar to this (or atleast I'd presume it wouldn't be hard).
Legion has it too when he uses his power, so I really dont see too much issue with this. It would make Bloodhound a better perk on Spirit than Stridor aswell.
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2018776#Comment_2018776
escape is optional for a pip where as killing is not optional. Kills have to be the most stupid thing to base this game off and anyone that plays killer would know this from some of the things they have seen.
You can get black pips regardless of your playstyle as a killer if the game lasts long enough, you cant get black pips if you're rushed out.
If you were able to black pip as a survivor regardless if you were rushed out of the game, I wouldnt really have an issue with it and probably argue the same that its easier to gain pips as survivor.
Except thats not the case, I can troll as a killer in 80% of my games, do absolutely terrible, and still get a black pip. For me to depip as a killer, I am pretty much forced to stay AFK watching a corner, or face a tournament squad. For me to lose a pip as a survivor, I only need a killer that isnt good enough to keep the chase going while teammates work on gens(which is why I argue that you should get emblems for gens, regardless if you are in chase or not). I've had games where I got followed by the killer for 5 generators, trying to force the chase to activate all game, but for the killer to lose the chase too easily and causing me to depip. I've never had games as a killer where I depipped because survivors rushed gens unless it was a tournament squad.
So lets compare:
On one side, easy depips if the killer is bad or decides to rush you out of the game, neither really need any skill to rush kills or be bad.
On the other side, you depip as a killer if you face a team that is so highly skilled or if you literally afk.
How is this even up for discussion?
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Secondary question:
If there is a survivor with 0 stalk points closer to you than a survivor with 10 stalk points, does the survivor with 0 stalk points block the stalk drain from a survivor that is further away, as Myers stalks the survivor closest to him, or is a survivor with 0 stalkpoints no longer considered?
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2041516#Comment_2041516
None of these can actually prevent survivors from gaining distane or reaching a pallet. Only Blight, Spirit and Nurse can, or as I see them, the trinity of mobility. Want me to break it down?
Trapper: Thats not how Trapper works. At all. You can't hide traps under pallets, and if they're holding W then there's nothing you can do.
Wraith: Not unless you are stacking windstorm add-ons together, and even then it only half-counters W and does nothing for predropping pallets.
Billy: His chainsaw does nothing for W/predrop, it's easy to dodge unless the billy is backrevving you and his cooldown gives you alsmot as much distance as he gains, sometimes even more.
Huntress: Sort of, but she still requires survivors to be potatoes because of the range.
Hag: same as Trapper. Her power is for trapping loops - if the survivors don't use them, you don't have a power.
Bubba: His power is literally countered by W/predrop. In fact, he forces that playstyle. That's the biggest complain survivors have about him.
Freddy: Same as Bubba.
Clown: Same as Bubba.
Legion: 4 second stun. 4. That's 16m distance. It's even worse than Billy.
Demogorgon: Same issue as Huntress. Due to the distance, he's easy to dodge. Probably the only killer in this list I have the least amount of practice trying to counter W/predrop with, though, so maybe I'm missing something.
Oni: His counterplay is also just W/predrop, however in his case it's to stop him from getting his power. Still, of everyone on this list other than the holy trinity of mobility killers he is the one that counters it the best, but "best" isn't "counters it well."
Deathslinger: Sort of, yes. The reason I mained Deathslinger was because he could do something about it, however W/predrop is still his main counterplay and still extremely effective.
Pyramid Head: Nope. W is his counter. He doesn't even get the predrop part most of the time. Just W. W, W, W.
Twins: I have been trying, and the results aren't great. Technically, yes, if you play like an absolute... Ahem, "lovely person" then they sort of counter predrop/W, however at that point you're just hardcore facecamping and tunnelling. I though Victor would be a good W counter but you need to injure them as Charlotte and she's a basic 115 killer. If you try to use Victor they just kidnap him and waste as much time as W/predrop in just as frustrating a way.
Holding W is maybe the biggest issue in the game right now. Assuming there's a 10m gap, which is very small, it takes the killer around 15 seconds to catch up. Add in predropping and teammates actually doing gens and it's just GG. And not the fun kind of GG. The kind where you basically didn't even get to play the game and just lost to cheesy strats.
Easy rebuttal:
Trapper, no duh, you PREPARE before a chase. If you're ill prepared, sure, Trapper cant do #########, but that's on you being ill prepared.
Wraith, it was enough to gain distance as fast as a killer with 3 stacks of PWYF or a killer with bloodlust 3. Let alone that his uncloaking allows him to lunge much further than normal killers that can only be dodged by a well timed stun or a well timed dead hard(which is a 50/50 and tends to leave you exhausted on the floor as survivor). Especially after the next update.
Billy, you predict predrops and remove a pallet from play, as for survivors holding w gaining distance, yes, his chainsaw is the perfect counter to that. Unless you mean survivors holding WA or WD while running in a loop, then sure, but that's not the same as holding W. That's using hitboxes in your advantage. Not including the fact while it is slightly harder than before, Billy can still grind along most walls and even some corners, which is extremely hard to counter unless there is a window or pallet nearby. But we're not talking windows or pallets here, we're talking purely W strat.
Huntress, nope, its quite easy to catch a survivor off-guard by throwing your hatchet through thin gaps as survivors assume they will be fine. Let alone that Huntress is essentially throwing spheres instead of sticks when it comes to survivors, while throwing sticks when it comes to the environment(essentially, a survivor can stand half a hatchet distance away from the "real" hatchet and still be hit, while you can throw through very small gaps without hitting the environment, hatchet hitboxes are heavily in huntress' favor).
Hag, she is literally an low S tier killer with the lowest need to enter a chase at all. She can easily trap a portion of the map that will be heavily populated and not even be present to get a hit. Her 110% might make holding W even more powerful as it is against 115% killers, but considering her only true counter is a flashlight, she can freely place traps unlike Trapper. "If survivors dont use them, you dont have a power" This is blatently wrong. If survivors dont use a loop, you have been the one to have made a mistake. You do not blame survivors for using a loop if you werent the one prepared for that loop in the first place. If survivors use a loop that you havent prepared, that's on you, if survivors dont use a loop that you have prepared, you either push survivors into that direction(which, really isnt that hard, survivors tend to try and go for the largest distance available, if that distance is towards a prepped loop, they will go to that loop. If they know it's trapped, they are forced to take a detour to a different loop allowing you to gain distance).
Bubba, I mean, my biggest complaint is that they overbuffed him, Bubba needed a buff, but not this much. As for predrops, same as Billy. As for holding W, well, not really. You're forced to find a spot to vault against a Bubba. Holding W is actually where Bubba thrives at. You want to avoid holding W as much as you can against a Bubba because he can easily gain distance on you if you're within 6 meters.
Freddy and Clown are literally anti loop. Let alone that they literally have the ability to slow survivors down. Freddy and Clown do not even belong in the discussion for "W tOo OP, pLz NeRf" as they have the ability to increase the movementspeed gap to nearly 30% by just using their m2.
Legion, addons, perks, let alone that you can move in that 4 second stun, during that time, he can bodyblock vaults and pallets. Granted, Legion is the worst on this list due to taking the longest time to down, but Legion also has the power to buy himself the most time out of all killers. That does make him a bit boring, as all that means is that Legion matches take roughly 1.5x longer than other killers, but that is besides the point. Besides, for Billy to be stunned, he needs to run into a wall, aka make a mistake. You cannot blame your own mistakes on survivor mechanics.
Demogorgon easy to dodge? Perhaps if you dont use addons(or if you're bad at predicting a survivor). But not using addons is a personal choice. His most powerful addon is literally grey and appears up to 6 times in a single bloodweb, with the average builds, as killer, you can gain 1 bloodweb worth of bloodpoints per match. Meaning you can literally afford to play 5 games using the same addon, get 5 bloodwebs worth of bloodpoints, clear 2 bloodwebs to gain an average of 8 addons while having 3 bloodwebs worth of BP left, play 8 more games for 8 more bloodwebs worth of points, totalling 13 bloodwebs worth of points at the cost of 3 bloodwebs. Your excuse to not use any addons on a killer that doesnt even rely on yellow addons is worthless. The game is designed for killers to use addons in the same way as the game is designed for survivors to run perks. Complaining about something not being possible in a killers' basekit and saying devs need to do something about holding w as it's too powerful, is the same as survivors complaining about killers slugging and saying the devs need to nerf slugging. Or is it suddenly different because survivors can rely on other survivors? I mean, you can cut off corners from survivors. Cutting off corners is the biggest counter to holding W. If you dont cut off corners and complain about people holding w, is the same as survivors not picking each other up when they are slugged and complain that slugging is too OP. Yes, holding W is powerful, but you have 6 usable slots to counter W plays, 4 permanent and 2 that are very easy to replenish to a point where you can almost permanently run a solid addon combo(its not permanent due to some killers relying heavily on yellow or even green addons, but on most killers you can) while remaining a surplus of BP. Survivors do have 7 usable slots, sure, but the 4 permanent slots but 3 of those slots cannot be replenished as there are too many variants. So perhaps in 10% of the games can they run solid combo's, but in 90% of the games their 3 slots wont really do anything at all. Let alone that they dont even earn 1 bloodweb worth of points for a game. Survivors cannot replenish their items and addons effectively, Killers can replenish with ease. So with that rant over, no, Demogorgon can actually hit quite accurately with Rat Liver. The bigger issue with Demo is his lack of map pressure even though he has an ability that allows him to teleport across the map.
The fact that the only counter against Oni in this case is not getting hit at all as a survivor, pretty much shows a bias here. Oni has no issues with W gamers. If Oni fails, the survivors predicted the killer 100% correctly while the killer predicted the survivors only 30% correctly. That is not an issue, because some survivors are simply better at this game than some killers are. Skill gaps exist. A red rank team of survivors easily destroys a green rank killer, then that green rank killer has no place in saying survivor mechanics are too OP. Just as a red rank killer easily destroying green rank survivors is not a reason for those green rank survivors to say killer mechanics are OP. If Oni fails, there is a skill gap. That's all there is to it.
Deathslinger only sucks if you play him without perks and addons. If you're going to complain about playing Deathslinger addonless(especially considering he has arguably one of the most OP combo's available, where he reloads so fast that a survivor cant even vault a window(STBFL, Warden Keys and Modified Ammobelt, makes you finish your hit cooldown and reload within 2.5 seconds at 8 stacks of STBFL, which is only 10 meters distance, allowing you to shoot a survivor, reel them in, hit them, reload and shoot them again within a span of 5 seconds). That's not enough time to W strat. Deathslingers biggest weakness is being seen before he gets in range. But on open maps, that doesnt really hurt him either, considering there is nowhere to hide behind.
PH, only if you suck at predicting, its quite easy to get a hit off as long as you force the survivor to think about where he can and cant go. It's quite easy to get a quick m2 for a long range hit. At which point survivors can only run so far before they hit a wall, allowing PH to easily corner them and get another hit. PH, again, is a case where the skillgap in mindgames decides if there is going to be a hit or not. If you cant get a hit as PH, that survivor mindgamed you harder than you mindgamed him.
Twins, I think you need to experiment with lesser used builds. You'd be surprised how effective perks like Predator, Unrelenting and Beast of Prey(4th perk obviously being Pop) can work on Twins(in fact, you'd be surprised how well Beast of Prey can counter OoO), sure, it might force you a bit more time on your first hit, but Victor is your sweep. Stridor and Sloppy are also decent perks on her, but another, often overlooked perk on Twins is Iron Maiden. Its often smart for healthy survivors to jump into a locker if they think Charlotte is far enough to get themselves out, but Iron Maiden can make that play impossible as it's just a free instadown. Twins has a very weird power that can be complimented with normally low-tier perks that no survivor would assume you'd run.
And again, holding W might be powerful in a straight line, but for survivors to force a killer to run a straight line for 15 seconds requires a map that gives access to a straight line for 15 seconds. 15 seconds is a straight line of 60 meters. The only map giving access to this is Midwich, which most of the above mentioned killers do not have an issue with due to having ways on lowering that time using their abilities. The rest of the maps either have ways to cut off corners or give survivors a loop they rather use, removing a lot of gained distance anyway.
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I mean, it really depends on what you personally consider to be win conditions here. The devs have even stated that if someone plays basement bubba with their own objective being to protect the chest, they are free to do so, even though its not an effective strategy to gain pips.
If your personal win condition is constantly stabbings survivors, Legion is great.
If your personal win condition is a 4k, then not so much.
If your personal win condition is 7+ hooks, then Legion is fine.
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@MadLordJack said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2040890#Comment_2040890
But now there is no looping, just the W and predropped pallets. The killer has no chance to catch anyone or end chases quickly.
A lot of killers actually DO have mechanics against holding W.
Trapper has the ability to surprise survivors with a hidden trap, capturing them and voiding all gained distance
Wraith has the ability to cloak and gain in on survivors.
Billy has the ability to literally run and even instadown survivors that run in straight lines, voiding distance AND reducing distance gained per healthstate.
Huntress has hatchets.
Nurse can literally teleport the distance away.
Hag, same with Trapper, voids all distance.
Bubba, bit tougher as his chainsaw barely gains him any distance, but its an instadown, so the distance per healthstate is less.
Freddy, as long as there are generators, there are ways for him to decrease distance. Let alone that some fake pallets or well placed traps massively reduce gained distance.
Clown, has bottles to slow survivors down and to speed himself up, gained distance isnt really a thing for him.
Spirit, basically Wraith except she can deal damage whenever she gets out of phasing.
Legion, can constantly use sprintburst to catch up.
Demogorgon, can use his portals or shred to lower distance. Probably the weakest killer for closing gaps on this list.
Oni, same as Billy, except more mobility.
Deathslinger, can damage you, shoot you and down you before you can even gain any distance with running a straight line.
PH, while not the strongest in this scenario, better than Demo purely because he can use his power to hit you through walls.
Blight, just bounces a bit to catch up.
Twins, well, if you're injured, she'll just gets Victor to down you.
That leaves Myers, Ghostface, Doctor, Plague and Piggy that dont really have abilities to take advantage of survivors running straight lines.
BUT GUESS WHAT? Maps aren't straight lines, they are squares. So the holding W only works very temporarily as 90% of the killers have a way of quickly getting a healthstate. Doctor can even prevent you from using a loop at all, meaning once you hold W, there is nothing really usable left..
Holding W is not an issue in the game. Survivors are slower than killers. I rather have 100 survivors using W strats over 1 survivor using 3 godtier tiles that spawned next to each other with windows facing each other.
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@Sonzaishinai said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2030708#Comment_2030708
I still got it.
It wouldn't really surprise me if people forgot what nurse iri addons do though. They are like meme addons without the bonus bloodpoints
I mean, one of them used to make it impossible to go through any objects, now it just makes it impossible to go through solid walls.
On most maps, this wouldnt matter tho, because it relies on line of sight, which means that if you can shoot through it as a deathslinger, you can blink through it as a Nurse. Having 3 blinks available while being able to go through most walls, is really good. It might not be as good as 2 blinks that can actually go through walls, but being able to blink 3 times with similar distances easily makes up for that.
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@Crowman said:
Technically we have many already.
Bloodwarden, No Way Out (new Trickster Perk), Remember Me - All perks that help keep survivors stuck in the trail once gens have been finished.
NOED, Rancor - Gives killer the ability to instant down when all gens are finished.
Fire Up and Coup De Grace - Give killer boosted strength for survivors completing gens.
Hex: Undying - Saves a hex totem from being cleansed once
The main problem with Killer 2nd chance perks is that making a build that works when gens are finished is just not a good strategy compared to building a build that helps you win chases, slowdown generators, or gives you information on where survivors are.
Thing is tho, survivors dont really have a built-in ability to deal with chases, hence they need perks to improve chasing. Most killers have a basekit ability that can massively reduce chase times(long range hits, pre-set traps, gapclosers etc), so their perks need to rely more on slowing the game down rather than focus on chase.
Survivors and Killers literally have an opposite basekit. Which is why you cannot give killers a "second chance" perk based around a chase to give them an easier hook, that would be like giving survivors the ability to finish a generator within 20 seconds alone because they missed a skillcheck.
This is why Pop and DS are compared together, because they directly affect the opponent's objective. This is why Dead Hard would be more equal to Dragons Grip(and why Dragons Grip needs a lower cooldown), because one extends the chase by an additional hit, where the other one reduces the chase by 1 hit. Yet a lot of killers refuse to believe that perks based around generators or unhooking are as good as perks that affect a chase, and why I believe a lot of killer perks are underestimated, and why a lot of survivor perks, like Camaraderie(especially against campers), are also underestimated.
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@ItzPixelYT said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2030719#Comment_2030719
A MMR based off NOED? It's not exactly skill based. I feel bad for the Killers who are in lower ranks who want to have fun and play and instead they get put with Red rank survivors who can run them for such a long time because they don't know how to counter it. I played 5 killers in a row with NOED. 2 Dc'd and the other 3 got 1 Kill...it's not balanced matchmaking in my eyes.
Ofcourse its not, it's fresh, it's new. It's not going to be balanced untill its already active for a longer time. Essentially, when this MMR was released, it means the system thinks you have 0 experience facing any killer. Just as the system thinks the killers have 0 experience facing survivors. Meaning that lower rank killers will face high rank survivors, just as much as high rank killers will face lower rank survivors.
This is simply the effects of a new system needing to set a standard. Personally, I would rather have it run on the background for 1 week before turning it on for a full 24 hours, because that way the system has enough time to gather some basic data. But beyond that, the claim that the matchmaking is not balanced simply because the matchmaking didnt gather enough data is a moot point.
That's like saying the invention of the telephone was not worth it because you could only call 1 person, even though it's now obvious that telephones are great. By the end of the 24 hours, I'll be fairly certain that you wont face the same type of killers you faced in the first 2 hours.
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I mean true, in this specific case, but my point was more that IMO it would be kinda weird if 90% of my games are against killers with completely different mechanics from another killer to the point of me having 0 experience against that killer, leading me to be utterly destroyed simply due to not having enough time in a single match to find out what is smarter to do.
For example, facing Spirits, you end up learning that dropping pallets really early while she is phasing is quite effective, yet dropping pallets early against most other killers will end up in a very different match.
When I play certain killers that are quite uncommon, I wouldnt really enjoy constantly playing against survivors that have not much experience in facing the killer I play. It would be fun every once in a while sure, as facing people who are amazing against your killer 100% of the time isnt exactly fun either, but there are certain killers I play daily that are considered uncommon.
This is why I personally think that besides a generic survivor MMR, it might be wise to add a killer specific MMR to survivors aswell, while a generic killer MMR might help there too(aka, when a new killer gets released, the combined MMR ends up experienced killers facing experienced enough survivors who both have no clue how the new killer works). Meaning you dont end up facing god-tier specific killers that you dont really learn to counter because you happen to face killers you're already good against, while still facing averagely stronger killers.
I get that on the long run, it might not make enough difference to be worth the additional effort. I just feel like anytime a new killer would be released, you end up having extremely experienced killers end up facing new survivors to the point that they dont learn to hone their specific skills because the survivors they face have not enough experience facing killers in general.
Which is still better than being forced to face very experienced survivors when you want to try out a new killer to the point of having no time at all to learn that killer, but having no oppertunity to really learn the killer untill you're already 50 hours in isnt that amazing either. To me, this is choosing between 2 frustration inducing extremes when there is a middle ground available.
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@TheDarkTyrant said:
I never really say stuff like this but this is a special circumstance... GET GOOD. Nurse doesn't not really need a change. Nothing about her needs a change. Add-ons? No. Her power? No. She is hard to play but not OP. Break line of sight with her. When survivors get demolished is not only because the Nurse is good, its also the survivor.
Nurse is definitely OP. Not having any legitimate counter is OP. To win from a nurse, you must read her 100% correctly and even then you need Nurse to be bad enough to not correct well enough with her second blink.
The only reason why she is fine as she is right now, is because it takes about 50 hours to start playing decent and about 100 hours to be a good Nurse.
"But tournament survivors can handle her" you want to know why? Because those survivors spend 2000 hours learning every single possible move they can do against a 500 hour Nurse alone. Any killer with 2k hours in Nurse could easily stomp survivors who spend 3k hours trying to counter Nurse.
In what world is a killer that requires 2k hours of honing your skills against that specific killer to even barely counter him/her a healthy killer?
Otherwise I could claim survivors are fine aswell, since it takes 2k hours in survivor hours alone to fully counter most killers. Yet then suddenly it's not fine because survivors end up with a mechanical advantage over most killers. Yet, Nurse is a character with a mechanical advantage over any survivor. So why the double standard?
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I mean, to be fair, they should also fix that survivors still get damaged after they finished vaulting a pallet or a window. On average, they kinda cancel out. If grab cancels lead to damage states being lost, then survivors should be guaranteed to not lose a health state once they are on the opposite side of a vault, as that is only because of hit verification granting the killer the benefit of the doubt. The same way that grab cancels are giving survivors benefit of the doubt.
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bump this up
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@Botiz said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/8OGTZ2U99M0B/image.png
I'm more hype for The Wraith and Blight changes than I am Trickster
I know someone's about to say "Tru3's community is only a fraction compared to everyone as a whole" I get that but even the constant criticism of the new killer over the forums and Twitter goes to show how many people aren't too excited for this chapter at all. Hey, at least we can wait 2 years before Trickster finally gets a power rework, amirite?
Thing is, I havent been hyped for new killers since every killer gets a PTB. The announcement makes me slightly hyped, but the thing is, even though I think Trickster will be a very fun killer to play as(note, being fun and being strong are not always synonymous), there are simply a lot of things I rather see being changed.
The perks in the new chapter are great and allow a lot of interesting builds, which I am kinda hyped for, but there are a lot of older perks and mechanics that should have been reworked 2 years ago that are still part of the game and are either really unfun to play against(iri head+infantry huntress for example), or are only fun to play with if the opponent doesnt rush their objective the entire game.