Small QoL change for Spirit
I think it would be a very healthy move to remove scratchmarks while Spirit is phasing and instead show blood as blood is harder to track than scratchmarks. Swapping Father's Glasses blood tracking with scratchmarks instead and Mother-Daughter ring instead of removing scratchmarks, removing the blood.
Because a good spirit never really relies on scratchmarks or blood anyway as they listen to the environment.
This only raises her skillfloor, and doesnt lower her skill cap, let alone that there actually would be some decent counterplay that survivors can pull against lower skilled Spirits.
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I think this would be a step in the right direction, and it shouldn't be too hard to code as Victor has code similar to this (or atleast I'd presume it wouldn't be hard).
This is not how to fix her, if anything this is a buff. Blood is far easier to track than scratch marks.
Legion has it too when he uses his power, so I really dont see too much issue with this. It would make Bloodhound a better perk on Spirit than Stridor aswell.
Blood is harder to track in most maps, let alone that you can still run back into your own blood to hide it and that you need to stand close to see it. Scratchmarks are visible on any map, from a very long distance.
Adding to that that No Mither would actually be a very strong perk against Spirit in this case, as you dont drop blood at all AND have quiter sounds.
No, tracking by blood is actually easier than scratch marks because blood is literally a direct trail. It would make Sloppy Butcher OP af on her if this was implemented. The real QoL change she needs is to actually take skill to play and not completely miserable to go against.
Easy counter: heal up.
Blood is easier to track on pretty much every map except for old ormond. Scratch marks can appear in a spread that makes you think the survivor went somewhere else, but blood leads directly to the survivor.
How is that any different than now when most spirits run the addon that eliminates scratch marks anyway?
Healing takes up time my guy. It’s less time on gens which is already beneficial for Spirit, so please don’t say that healing is a counter.
Great idea. Let me just heal in a Chase after getting hit.
No, really, Blood is easier to track. At least for Scratchmarks you can stop running and walk in another way when she is phasing. This does not work with Bloodtrails.
Because she'd only be able to easily down you while you're already injured and bleeding. Now she can easily hit you twice thanks to scratchmarks. See your scratchmarks from a long distance while she's already phasing, causing her to catch survivors who dont expect her to be coming. If she cant see scratchmarks, you can freely run around during her phasing as she can only track your blood if she's nearby.
She'd be essentially just as strong close counters, but less powerful mapwide. It would be harder to fool her closeby, sure, but its much easier to fool her if you gained distance. Once a spirit closes distance, she can practically hear you anyway.
And besides, she'd be running slower than the addon that removes scratchmarks.
The best way to fix spirit by giving her counterplay without actually nerfing her directly is to give counterplay but for both sides.
Spirit has a passive phase, just add that to her power as well:
When phasing back. Spirit keeps the movement speed bonus of her power but becomes visible to the survivors. However, she also is able to see the survivors. This gives counterplay to spirit. You know when she is using her power, and you can see her periodically for a short burst. This lets you know what direction she is going and gives you a chance to make a decision based on that, creating counterplay. But, maybe the spirit knows that because you saw her going one way, that you are going to go the other, so now when she phases back invisible, she doubles back, and lands a hit. But next time, you now know that she knows. So instead of doubling back, you keep going. This creates a mindgame and counterplay around her power while not actually nerfing her, because she gets the benefit of it as well.
Yeah, and that maybe buys you 5 more seconds in a chase. Her not being able to track you down long distance as she can only track blood up close would actually buy a similar amount or more.
I like it. This would definitely provide equal mind games for both sides and it would be a fun and interactive battle. That’s all I want out of Spirit.
Thats not even a quality of life change thats just a regular change
I mean, catagorically, it would be a nerf, as you add counterplay. And I dont disagree, I've just been playing around in custom games as a spirit with a friend and just asked him to do his thing. One with father's glasses and mother daughter ring, and the other one with neither. I've had a harder time finding him with both addons even though I was faster. Sure, the chase was shorter, but me being able to see scratchmarks across the map while I was phasing made it very easy to locate him and shorten distance. with Father's glasses, I couldnt find him during phasing. I had to be out of phase to locate and then start phasing. Which, thanks to mother daughter ring was much quicker, but if I remove that movementspeed boost, it would take me significantly longer to just locate a survivor.
Spirit is already strong inside the chase, this change would only mean it's harder for her to locate survivors in the first place. She'd be significantly stronger once she lands a hit on you, but that would fit Spirit.
Essentially, harder to locate survivors, harder to track them while they are healthy while making the chase post-hit easier would not make her easier to play. Because the lower skilled spirits cant track blood well anyway, they just get free hits thanks to scratchmarks.
its a tiny change that Spirit already has access to. That is a QoL. Wraith's windstorm change is also QoL. They dont mechanically change the killer, they just alter a tiny part of their mechanics to make them feel better to play as or play against.
What if, instead of phasing in and out, her husk simply moved to her location at set intervals? It would move to wherever she is every 1-1.5 seconds, complete with the trail she creates. Every time the husk updates its position, the phased Spirit get a quick, 0.25 second peak at what is actually going on in front of her.
Somehow I knew it would be another "nerf spirit" post not a qol change
How is it a nerf tho?
It is small. Just swapping blood and scratchmarks is quite a tiny change. No mechanics are altered.
How is it not? You are removing one of her tracking abilities
And swapping it with another, that's not a nerf. If you can only play spirit because of scratchmarks when good spirits dont even need scratchmarks, all that says is that you're not a good spirit.
So what would you do if injured survivor with iron will starts walking back at some point over his blood trail when you start phasing? How would you track him if you can't tell where he stopped running?
Let me grab a small list QoL that had massive balancing implications:
So yes, it would be QoL.
Survivors can already do this with scratchmarks. And you can tell where he stopped running because the blood stops there.
Besides, you can see grass move, you can hear footsteps and survivors breathe(there is a soundbug with Iron Will right now that fully removes breathing for some reason). Again, good spirit players tend to use Mother-daughter ring, having no scratchmarks AND no blood when they phase, and they can trace survivors even if they have Iron Will. The only issue with Iron Will right now is that there is 0 breathing for some reason.
Relying on scratchmarks as a Spirit is exactly my issue with lower skilled Spirits. At least killers tracking blood have tracking skills beyond scratchmarks. Scratchmarks is why green rank killers can reach red ranks easily as long as they play Spirit.
This is not a nerf. In fact, as other people have stated: "it's easier to track blood than scratchmarks", which is 100% true. Except that blood only appears if survivors are injured, meaning "bad" spirits are not able to dominate in red ranks just for playing spirit.
Quality of life is generally refered to as small buffs or changes for the enjoyment of gameplay, as many of the changed aspects weren't fair or enjoyable but didn't need to be completely removed only fine tuned
This change isn't a quality of life because it just completely changes an aspect of it
for example if this was a quality of life it might look something like this
Fathers glasses: Also applies a moderate hemorrhage effect for more consistent blood tracking
quality of life isn't nerfs to the base tracking abilities of killer powers
Then she runs Sloppy Butcher and the survivor now has a clear, easily trackable path that drips so frequently the survivor might as well have red paint on their feet
This is more of a buff than a QoL.
Bleeding happens at intervals, it's not constant. Which map has grass everywhere? If you have iron will and injured, you are not making breathing sounds. On top of that healthy survivors breathe at intervals.
You make this change and the same day every spirit wil be using bloodhound and sloppy butcher. Now you don't even need to use sound.
Its not a nerf tho
I mean, I agree with it having a lot of balancing implications, especially as it raises the skill floor significantly, but from a developing perspective, it is QoL.
It's not really a nerf or a buff on the addons, it's not really a nerf or a buff on the power. It is a change that affects some things negatively for the killer but positively for the survivor, while also being positively for the killer and negatively for the survivor. That is what makes it a QoL. It makes the killer more fun to play against, while also rewarding skill rather than just being a handout.
Besides, those "old" patch notes are not that old, most are less than 1 year old.
Ah, not unlike running Stridor that clearly gives away where a survivor is. Or not unlike running Predator in the current situation that essentially draws a straight line to the survivor.
Sloppy Butcher is a bit of a moot point.
But she dedicates 2 perks that only work if the survivor is already injured. You know what she can do now? Run Predator, have the same effect regardless of the survivor bleeding or not. I rather force a killer to use 2 perks to have the same effect as 1 perk.
And like I said, YOU CAN HEAR FOOTSTEPS.
Iron Will not giving breathing sounds is a bug.
except sloppy also reduces healing speed, so no, its not a moot point. it would make an op killer require this perk and make her even better. Stridor and Predator dont extend the game like sloppy does or prevent the survivors from being able to heal, which would be the one weakness of Spirit using blood to track with.
1 sec without movement before being visible again. that’s the solution
I mean, in that same sentiment, her addons get nerfed. Besides, it's only a buff if you're up close anyway, at which point footsteps would be audible.
Essentially, with this in mind, Spirit requires more skill to actually get hits and track survivors in the first place, as tracing blood, while it can be easier, can be quite hard too. A survivor can still turn a corner quickly, decide to stand still near a corner making a Spirit think they have turned the corner or trace back. It allows for counterplay, and that is really what Spirit needs.
I mean, sure on one hand, but on the other hand, the game has items, you have other survivors. All you need is a location to heal up, and you're essentially untracable again. And it's a way for Spirit to slow down the game as its harder to track uninjured survivors.
Stridor and Predator heavily decrease the time it takes for Spirit to get hits, in both the uninjured AND injured state. Sloppy would only work as long as you're healthy.
Twins also forces survivors to heal up, and Twins arguably has a similar power. Victor is pretty much as fast as Spirit is, doesnt have a TR and is extremely hard to locate while he has build-in Bloodhound. Yet if you heal against Twins, the odds of a 3 man escape is quite likely, even if she has Sloppy. It's near impossible for Victor to track uninjured survivors.
Besides, Spirit being slightly stronger doesnt really matter too much, it's counterplay that matters most. You can counterplay a blood-tracking Spirit while uninjured and be harder to trace, while you can do the same with the blood as you can do with scratchmarks already, but you have to go for coin-flip "counterplays" by dropping pallets early or run very specific perks that are quite unused to counterplay a scratchmark tracking Spirit.
Besides, I rather face a Bloodhound, Sloppy Spirit any day, as it takes up 2 full perk slots to do something she's already good at without tracing blood or scratchmarks anyway.
"Cause all I'd see is people slapping on sloppy and/or bloodhound and being able to track even better than before."
At least they'd have to be good enough to keep you injured the entire game and get hits on you while you're uninjured, which is better than people phasing, following the wrong scratchmarks for less than a second and correcting themselves without any real negative consequences.
"Similar to how some people already run stridor now to counter iron will."
As I've played Spirit with Stridor in customs with a friend(I've been at this for a while, testing out what exactly makes her so easy to play), and Stridor only really helps locating if you have a general direction on where a survivor is, or if you accidentally run past a survivor which you could already hear without Stridor anyway. Stridor is kinda worthless on blood tracking spirit, as you dont know the general direction of a survivor. Making her phasing while survivors are uninjured guesswork for both the killer and the survivor.
"when it won't even guarantee that it'll be more fun/fair for survivors to face"
I mean, during testing, even though I consider myself quite a good killer, my friend was able to make more significant plays while I played blood tracking spirit even though I was faster than he was when I played scratchmark tracking spirit.
Sure, this is mostly based on the opinion of 2 people who did some testing in a private setting. But even with the added speed of Mother daughter ring, bloodhound and sloppy, it took me significantly longer to go from uninjured to downed. The time from injured to downed was much faster, sure, but from uninjured to injured was much longer too. Besides, they could even make blood slightly less visible during her phasing if it's truly too hard to counter.
I mean, otherwise my argument would go to "remove scratchmarks during her phasing", but that would make her learning curve a bit too steep.