PickCollins
PickCollins
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@slimeslime said:
still ignores pallets - check
still ignores windows - check
still ignores walls - check
yep, pretty much still top tier
Old Legion ignored 2/3 of these things and he was still very much middle C tier
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@Mister_Holdout said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/747525#Comment_747525
How about the devs rework the add-ons that are problematic?
And not touch her basekit
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@ASAPTurtle said:
It's kinda funny how most survivors don't really seem to overreact when they get nerfed or changed, but as soon as The Queen of DBD gets looked at, everyone has a severe meltdown.
Literally the second instaheals were nerfed there were like 5 posts the next millisecond crying about it.
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@CrowFoxy said:
There isn't a ton to say, just that now Nurse is particularly add on dependent. I really hate it. She used to be good at base, but not really anymore. I don't wanna have to rely on Rares and Uncommons, I don't wanna USE ANY add ons.
She's hurting, this change is bad.
I'm glad to see you've come around.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/743704#Comment_743704
If you lunge as Nurse though, the recharge time starts at the beginning of the lunge and not the fatigue. So if you miss an attack, your two blinks are like one second after the fautigue back. It's really not cripplin at all. Once you've got your two blinks back, she can easily catch up to a survivor.
Also, the distance you describe is only possible if the Nurse stands still for whatever reason during her fatigue and until she gets her two blinks back. Nurse is barely slower than survivors so after the fatigue survivors will only gain barely any additional distance in comparison to what it was before. The only real change is that they have a better chance at getting behind some object to break LOS, the only counter they have to Nurse. So she doesn't need to cover even nearly as much distance when she misses a hit against Survivors.
So why instead of increasing her fatigue stun, add a whole new mechanic? If the intention was actually what BHVR claimed, a longer fatigue would have accomplished that.
This was a blatant kick to her map pressure, as Ardetha has said.
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@UlvenDagoth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/747090#Comment_747090
Oddly you will find alot of people disagree with other Killers being able to brute force there way through a chase. Also what you are saying now is going against the "Hyperagressive" style you mentioned earlier.
Also, Yes I like Legion and I can Still look at the bigger picture other than "Oh they nerfed my Killer! Riot!" The Devs are for the game. Not Killer or Survivor. The Game. What did I do when they nerfed Legion? I looked at it, sighed at the overnerfing then PLAYED THE KILLER. I got to be really good with Legion despite it all. I didn't complain, I only whined alittle, I got things done.
My best advice is to comment in the feedback for the PTB. I can't influence the Devs anymore than you can, of course. I think the best bet is to play the Killer, get used to it and then decide.
Also
I've already given BHVR my 2 cents. Plenty of people agree with me, the base power nerf was 100% not needed. You also do not seem to focus on this point at all.
BHVR promised if they changed her power, it'd be, using their words, "slight tweaks". An entire new mechanic that is basically a second fatigue stun is not a slight tweak at all.
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@UlvenDagoth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/747044#Comment_747044
Well, I just watched a video with OTZ praising not only the add-ons but the base kit change.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3O91_tO8v3c
Legion was a hyperaggressive Killer too, and look what happened to them. I still main them man, I understand why you are upset. But I honestly Don't think it's a big a deal as you are making it out to be. Nurse no longer is in a Tier of her own. That's it. She's not SSS anymore. She's more even now. This leaves room for not only easier map reworks BUT buffs to the lower Tier Killers as well. On top of that, it will be easier to balance gen times and such because now it's not like "Oh... but Nurse..." just like it's "Oh... SWF..." some times. They can't balance everything at once man. Give it time. Breathe. Just try and enjoy the game for what it is, and know that they are doing every thing they can AND looking at the bigger picture if they want to keep getting money from this game at all.
Remember, They are on the GAME'S side. Not Killer. Not Survivor. Do you think they want there cash cow to die?
No. They don't. But Legion isn't anywhere near what Nurse is. Legion was reworked because people were exploiting unintended flaws in his design to be as toxic as possible. Nurse was designed with a clear weakness and clear strength. She's a power killer, but ONLY a power killer. Every other killer can brute Force their way through a chase and not have to think. Nurse could not do that. She needed her power.
And I was clearly wrong about Otz, but I know for a fact that Tru3 expressed the "Base Nurse is balanced" sentiment. And he's not wrong. Base Nurse IS balanced. But Nurse is a killer where there is no such thing as a down the line middle road way to balance her. She's either gonna be in a league of her own, or she's gonna be a dumpster fire that needs major buffs. This rework is pretty clear that she's gonna be a dumpster fire. Her new addons are largely #########, at least 7 of them are either nerfs or unholy garbage that whoever came up with should be fired on the spot for (sarcasm but you get the point).
And I would think as someone who likes Legion, you would want to see less killer reworks like his.
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@UlvenDagoth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/747006#Comment_747006
Streams mostly. OTZ for example reviewed the changes. Thank you for being more civil now.
Most people on these forums have extremely negative opinions on these changes and I don't blame them. If I recall correctly even Otz said Nurses base kit was perfectly fine and didn't need changed. I know Tru3 has expressed the same sentiment. And not many people have been able to actually argue that base Nurse is OP.
The only "OP" thing about Base Nurse is that she ignores pallets and windows. But what so many people DON'T account for is that she does that bc she's designed to. She's slower than Surviviors so she needs to be able to do that. What happens now is that Nurse is now left with a power that even one tiny remote slipup cripples her for the remainder of the fight. That, to me, is incredibly unfair and should be undone immediately. Nurse is a hyperaggresive killer, and this new change prevents her from being hyperaggresive.
If they wanted to do what they said this change was aimed to do, and create more windows to escape her, they could have increased the fatigue stun and they could have accomplished the same goal. This nerf was specifically tailored to hit more than just her chase potential. Her chase potential, map pressure, and mobility all took an enormous hit here, and that's not a nerf a character like Nurse can come back easy from.
I hope you also can appreciate how frustrating it is to watch this unfold from the perspective of a Nurse player. I have dumped 100s of hours into Nurse, learning her. Winning with her, losing with her, improving. And not using her strong add-ons unless it's a bad day/I'm about to have a rough game. To watch all that time I put into this killer get effectively thrown away is heartbreaking and infuriating.
Yes I'm pissed with BHVR for thinking that the atrocity that is the nerf to her base kit was something that should have left the concept desk.
Yes I'm pissed with Surviviors that are revering these changes and acting like Nurse is still the best killer in the game.
Yes I'm pissed that killer mains, especially the ones that have been down this road, are not jumping to her defense. If Nurse was the last bastion against SWF, they did a horrible job making sure she stayed that way.
The add-on change was necessary and while some of them are pointless (Bad man's Keepsake, Anxious gasp) or flat out awful (Campbells, Spasmodic. Both of her red add-ons), some of them look good and fun (like Jenner's last breath, or Bad man's last breath). But the base kit change was completely out of the blue and completely unnecessary
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@UlvenDagoth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/746988#Comment_746988
I do believe that we have had a miscommunication, brought on by the lack of context in text. I have not and would not "Jeer" about changes or think of it as penance for a Nurse main. I am sorry you seem to think that i did, but I assure you that was not my intent.
I merely did not understand why everyone was freaking out BEFORE PTB and in fact have heard alot of positive things about Nurse at this point. Now, Can we let this misunderstanding drop and be civil or shall I just ignore you for my own sanity?
Idk where you are hearing positive feedback bc from what I'm looking at, most of it is very VERY negative. Any remotely positive opinion is shut out by the "the base kit didn't need changed #########".
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@dont_ask_me_again said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/745484#Comment_745484
A nurse could easily force it on Azarov’s resting place due to her mobility and situations come up all over the place.
That's one map with one killer.
Even if what ur saying is true that makes all the other killer/map combinations that end in 3 gen strats the Surviviors fault.
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@UlvenDagoth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/745085#Comment_745085
Yes but did I do any of that to you? Nope!
No you didn't. But sitting here and jeering about the changes like it's some kind of penance process Nurse mains now have to deal with contributes to the issue.
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@arslaN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/746033#Comment_746033
Those sweatfest teams are incredibly rare. You can't balance the game around them
That doesn't matter. Every killer Should be red rank viable, not green rank viable.
Bridge the gap between solos and SWFs, then buff bad killers. Do not nerf the good ones
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@arslaN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/746015#Comment_746015
You are bad if you think nurse is the only viable killer
She was the only good killer against the sweatfest tryhard SWF coms teams.
And now with the basekit nerf she's in the water.
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/745976#Comment_745976
Survivors are still the power role of this game. If you take a team of the best Survivors versus the best Killer, the Survivors will win.
Especially now. Nurse was our last hope that this game was the killers game and now she's been nerfed too hard.
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Nope.
If I don't get the basekit nerf to Nurse undone they can stfu about this!
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@Johnny_XMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/743119#Comment_743119
@altruistic Dont worry they will remember when the next survivor nerf takes place and survivors have something to say.
We don't need to remember there's already complaints about instaheals being removed
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Nuance is lost on Survivior mains here. They won't rest until she's 2.5 ms with a 5 meter blink that takes 30 minutes to recharge and even then they'll still say "she ignores basic chase mechanics hurbdur".
Increasing her fatigue stun would have been a "slight tweak". What we got was a hamfisted nerf.
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@arslaN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/745437#Comment_745437
It is an easy 4k to me. Most skill based killer is easily huntress imo
She doesn't need her power to win chases unlike Nurse
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@StupidButTru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/745483#Comment_745483
So what will be done about killer with insta down capabilities? You mean to tell me insta heals were too much but leatherface with easy cool downs, is perfectly balanced. Did you even think of how this effects console players at the very least considering they aren't on the same level as PC?
Nothing. You guys got your wish with Nurse being demolished so we get our wish with your instaheals.
You take from us we take from you. We lose our broken killer you lose your broken add-ons.
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@dont_ask_me_again said:
Base kit wasn’t fine because in a 3-gen strat nurse was abit too much like doctor... what I think the change needs is to not punish for successful hits.
3 gen strats are 100% the Surviviors fault.
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"her add-ons get a thumbs up from me".
Okay so.
Instantly blowing your second blink bc you fully charged ur first one is a thumbs up from you? (Campbells).
Having a useless scream if you pass a Survivior with your blink, which you aren't supposed to do, is a thumbs up from you? (Anxious).
Being reduced to a 115 killer with literally no power for 60 seconds for successfully blink attacking is a thumbs up from you? (Spasmodic).
Getting one extra blink at the cost of being neutered by a LOS block is a thumbs up from you? (Bookmark).
Losing one blink in exchange for being a 105 killer is a thumbs up from you? (Comb).
Really? Really?! These 5 add-ons are literal garbage.
You're even here saying "yeah this base kit nerf was unnecessary and they didn't really compensate her for it" and when you do the math it's borderline impossible to catch a Survivior if you continue chasing after a double blink.
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No. Addon rework was fine. Burning down her base kit wasn't.
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@arslaN said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/745349#Comment_745349
I can turn this around and say that killers want easy 4ks every single match by playing nurse and spirit. Nurse and spirit being way too powerful and killers like trapper,wraith, pig,legion being too weak ruins the balance. I play nurse and spirit and get 4ks almost every match. I also complain that they are way too powerful because it is too easy.
Both sides are childish in this community and whine about things constantly.
Nurse isn't an ez 4k. It might seem easy to bad Surviviors who get crushed by her, but Nurse is the most skill based killer in this entire game.
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@gantes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/745337#Comment_745337
Wow, you need to play well and hard to win? Who'd have thought
In the power role position, they need to outplay you, not the other way around like it is for the other kiklers
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@gantes said:
The only way to reach the conclusion that only Nurse and Spirit are red ranks viable is if your idea of viability = ez 4ks
No viability is the ability to compete with hardcore players. You need to sweat your balls off as anything less than the current top 3 to hope to win in red ranks even against less coordinated Surviviors.
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@AngryFluffy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/745127#Comment_745127
maybe some did. But I don't get why the devs listen to things like that. People will complain about everything, that doesn't mean that it is justified.
They should rather do something about the DC mentality instead of listening to exactly those people....
Then go tell them that. This blink recharge mechanic is unnecessary and stupid
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@gantes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/745256#Comment_745256
When survivors who have played this game at a high level for literal years can't counter those killers, I'm gonna say "their game" is unhealthy.
All other good killers make you adapt in healthier ways. Billy can curve around loops and punishes you in open spaces. Freddy punishes you for greeding pallets. Demogorgon demolishes jungle gyms and shack. Huntress punishes you between tiles and in short loops. Hag controls small areas better than everyone else. THOSE are healthy ways to make survivors play your game, and there's nothing wrong with that. And those killers should be the balance standard for the game, not Nurse or Spirit.
Then every single one of those killers need buffed to Spirit level. Bc every killer should be viable at red ranks. And if Nurse isn't gonna be their standard bearer then Spirit needs to be.
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@gantes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/745237#Comment_745237
I never said Nurse can brute force chases, she still has to use her power.
That doesn't mean I've ever watched a good Nurse player lose a game without messing up horribly, multiple times.
Good. This game is 4v1. It should be on Surviviors to outplay the killer, not the other way around. Nurse was the only killer that forced Surviviors to play a different game, to play HER game. That's how every killer should be. Instead Nurse is now in the pile of killers who play the Surviviors game.
You know I'd have been fine with Spirit and Billy getting adjusted if this Nurse rework wasn't gonna dumpster her. But it's pretty clear that it is, so Spirit at least Should be ignored. She's the only killer that comes anywhere close to making Surviviors play Her game anymore.
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@gantes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/745219#Comment_745219
I am a pretty mediocre Nurse who can still 4k in red ranks 3/4s of the time with no add-ons, which is obviously not fine. Hence why I think she should be nerfed.
People who are actually good with her are unbeatable, or close to it.
I don't believe you for 2 seconds. Bc you apparently think Huntress is way easier and a Nurse can brute Force chases just fine while Huntress is throwing if she tries.
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@gantes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/745182#Comment_745182
Huntress can brute force a chase, yes, if you wanna throw the game.
I'm not even gonna address the first point too much because it's entirely subjective.
HOWEVER, your logic on the second point is extremely flawed. Even if base Nurse was balanced (which I don't agree with), what you're saying implies that balance is a binary, yes/no switch, and it isn't. Post-rework Nurse can still be balanced, even if base Nurse is balanced right now. Balance is a spectrum.
And NO, being hard to play doesn't mean the character gets to be OP. No serious game balances things out like this. Playing a hard character should be a choice because you enjoy the character, not because you want something OP.
Most fighting game characters are 10x harder to execute than anything on DBD and they're obviously not all OP. A lot of MOBA characters are hard to execute and the devs still balance them.
In fact, for anyone who thinks Nurse is hard to learn, I recommend you to play literally any high execution fighting game. Spoiler: nothing is hard to play on DBD.
I really recommend you play Nurse and see how wrong you are. But I implore you to play her now while she's still good.
And sweetheart I play High execution fighting games almost every day. I have an MK11 addiction. Nurse is the only real skill based killer in this game and BHVR just gave us all the middle finger.
Being the best and being OP are not the same thing. Base Nurse was perfectly fine. She became problematic when add-ons entered the equation.
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@Yung_Slug said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/745170#Comment_745170
Alright, so if there were no add-ons to consider, I'd argue that nurse would still be better than most killers. Maybe spirit could be better, but nurse would definitely be better than hag or freddy.
Hag and Freddy are considered barely viable at high ranks.
This change just puts Spirit at #1 and Billy at #2. And these Nurse changes are hated. Mark my words they won't make it off the PTB like this.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/745150#Comment_745150
What exactly is the math? I've read this multiple times and I'm really curious now.
Let's say you hit a Survivior with your blink attack after a 2nd chain blink. They Sprint burst for 3 seconds, which gives them 18 meters on you while fatigued. So 18 meters.
You have to wait 3 extra seconds after that Sprint burst to get both of your blinks back, that's an additional 12 meters.
18+12=30. Meaning you hitting a Survivior gives them 30 meters on you, which is equivalent to one full blink plus a fully charged chainblink. Meaning it takes one tiny mistake to throw the entire game out of your control. As the "power role" in this game, that should not happen.
Or if you miss they will gain 24 meters by the time your second blink comes back, which is still requiring both of your blinks to catch them.
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@gantes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/745159#Comment_745159
1. Huntress is harder to play well 2. being hard doesn't give you the right to be op
1. No she isn't. Huntress can brute Force a chase. Nurse needs her power or she loses. This is how I know you don't play Nurse.
2. Being the hardest killer gives you every right to be the best. Base Nurse was balanced. The add-on changes are anywhere from meh to "I can't believe BHVR thinks this was a good idea" but Nurse didn't need add-ons previously. Now she's gonna rely on her add-ons that recover her blinks faster to resemble addon-less Nurse right now, which is balanced.
Meaning she's gonna need add-ons to be balanced.
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I Google searched "how to kill DBD" and this post came up.
You guys won. You got Nurse. Maybe take a sec to lube back up before you decide to ######### us again.
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@Yung_Slug said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/745150#Comment_745150
I agree with that second statement, but I'm trying to look on the bright side of things, since we've already got more than enough complainers before the PTB has even been released. What is your definition of "add-on reliant"? Because it seems like you mean she can only be at her full strength with add-ons, which would describe every killer.
"Add-on reliant" means the killer needs add-ons to be viable at the highest levels of play. Which is EXACTLY where Nurse is gonna land. And it's all bc of the damned base kit change.
Revert the base kit change and the feedback to this would have been overwhelmingly positive.
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1. BHVR promised slight tweaks to her power if they exist at all. The change to her base power is anything but slight.
2. Her add-ons were the issue, base kit was fine.
3. She's the hardest killer in the game, she should be the most powerful.
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@Yung_Slug said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/745135#Comment_745135
Nurse doesn't rely on add-ons. She's a high tier without them. Add-ons make her stronger, as they should. That's like saying she was add-on reliant before this change because she's weaker without omegablink.
If you do the math you'll know that she's gonna be an add-on reliant killer now. Base Nurse was perfectly fine, it was her add-ons that were the issue.
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@UlvenDagoth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/744438#Comment_744438
Hi Frozen! Did you see my post in Feedback? Also! You know better, not every Killer is like this! They are just freaking out, and also likely feel lied too cause BHVR said "Slight changes"
I honestly think they should wait for PTB and give good feedback if they want a change!
We gave feedback when Mettle of Man was on the PTB and it took them how long after it was off the PTB to nerf it?
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Yeah that's a problem. We need LESS add-on reliant killers, not more of them.
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@AngryFluffy said:
The only thing that was ever asked for, was to nerf omega blink.
Don't blame the survivors just because the devs make changes nobody asked for.
Oh no dude. They asked for WAY more than that.
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Say it in the back so the entitled Surviviors can hear it.
Thank god some Surviviors have some sense. There didn't need to be an independent cooldown ON TOP of her fatigue stun
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@Yung_Slug said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/743704#Comment_743704
With both recharge add-ons she'll have her first blink right away and her second blink will take 0.5 seconds to recharge.
Congrats. She becomes an add-on reliant killer like every other mid/low tier killer.
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@Danielgdp3 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/743704#Comment_743704
The Base Change was necessary with the new Add-on changes though and like I said you are already overreacting. Give it try I reckon you will not notice the changes as much as you believe you will.
The base change was actually terrible for her new addons. Look at Campbells last breath. Fully charging a blink will in essence auto consume your chainblink.
Blinks are a precious resource now so needlessly blasting your extra blink is gonna make it even worse.
Campbells is an addon that on current Nurse would be fine, but on this new iteration is complete garbage.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/743651#Comment_743651
Killers: Of course we deserve more Bloodpoints, we need Add-Ons.
Killers: Complain about using Add-Ons.
And yes, I think it is justified that Killers use Add-Ons. But some Add-Ons are way too needed, but this is not something the Nurse will suffer from I guess (e.g. Trappers Bags, you basically need them).
Do you not hear yourself? Add-on reliance is one of the biggest reasons certain killers are low tier.
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@grtf47 said:
@PickCollins we will have to wait and see. Minor tweak is possible but the deva have discoed the change so it will be a minor if any
Well In the meantime enjoy your ezmode. Bc if another high tier killer gets nerfed this game is dead.
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@grtf47 said:
@PickCollins I’m an experienced player and can assure you adrenaline is balanced as well as this change to nurse
Adrenaline is fine. What I said is a parody of people saying to just wait.
You have far more people saying this change is crippling than beneficial. Mark my words, this change won't make it out of the PTB, not without even a minor tweak
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@grtf47 said:
@PickCollins no man adrenaline is fine. Let’s see what the nurse can do and then comment on her
I don't need to see it. This is like MoM. You don't NEED to see how ruined/OP something is going to be. An experienced player can look at this ######### on paper and see it clear as day. And these changes even smell like #########.
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@NurseMainBTW said:
Don't be like this.
If anything, they'll change stuff on her that was too harsh or too strong. There's still a lot of time to make changes on her.
Good. But that won't happen unless we get pissed about it.
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@UlvenDagoth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/743714#Comment_743714
You can have your opinion. I'll sit over where with my patch notes and the fact you haven't even used the new stuff yet.
Nobody has bc nobody needs to test these changes to tell you they're trash. And when people go to test them and tell you that they're garbage, I'll sit here and laugh.
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@Mochan said:
Nurse players need to get even better then. It's a nerf that ensures skilled players get their man, while those who aren't as skilled need to git gud.
In other words, hit your strikes after the blink. If you can't, survivor gets away. Sounds good to me.
They get away now even if you do hit them