PickCollins
PickCollins
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@Peanits said:
I feel like I really need to stress this line from that post:
Please keep in mind that numbers are not everything; there are a whole bunch of factors that could influence these numbers.
To use the Spirit as an example, as we've mentioned many times before, we do not balanced based on stats alone. We make sure to do our research first and there's a lot of compelling arguments for why she should have been changed.
And again, there's a bunch of different factors involved. Is Freddy overpowered, or is it just a combination of perks and add-ons that make him that strong? These are all things that need to be considered.
So just to reiterate one last time, I really would not recommend drawing any conclusions from these stats. These are averages, not specific and incredibly detailed data that you should draw any conclusions from.
So can I ask why even declare Spirit as "overperforming" if you don't balance based solely around numbers? I agree balancing around numbers alone isn't the best solution to the problem. But why then would you put so much weight behind Spirit being statistically too strong as a killer.
And the question I really really want answered is why has the feedback on the Nurse rework been receiving no attention? Almo said on another post that complaints about something will draw attention to it. The Nurse rework got overwhelmingly negative feedback on the PTB and only two posts got any dev attention, one of which being a blanket "thank you for the feedback" and the other one being Almo trying to justify the viability of an addon that removes her power and boosts her MS to Trapper level for a minute. Myself, and many others have been expressing our opinions on the Nurse rework, to get absolutely zero attention. These stats show Nurse is not a powerful killer at red ranks, nor is she a popular one. Nurse mains have been all over these forums and Reddit talking about how she isn't fun to play as anymore, only to get dead silence. So I gotta ask one more time, are there ANY plans to actually look at Nurse and make her feel less un-fun to play as?
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@Fibijean said:
"Overperforming" was most likely never meant to refer to the Spirit's flat killrate, that was an assumption made by members of the community. There were likely a lot of things which factored into that label, including data which we don't currently have access to.
According to the stats, every single killer has a kill rate of 60% or above at red ranks, so I'm curious as to what you consider "not viable".
And Haddonfield is actually not the safest survivor map according to the stats - that honour goes to Rotten Fields.
Otherwise, interesting read. I myself would be curious to know some of the answers to those questions.
"overperforming" usually pertains to statistics by a very heavy degree. If Spirit was overperforming on a macro scale, then it had to have been her pickrate or killrate. Her pickrate does make her appear as an outlier, and her killrate being one of the best probably influenced that decision. Peanits did just say that they do not balance solely on stats, but they did say the biggest reason they decided to shift focus to Spirit was because the complaints on her led them to see that she was overperforming.
And yes you are right, the safest map for survivors IS rotten fields. I read the percentages wrong and assumed the numbers were escape rate, not kill rate. That is my mistake.
Also a killer that I consider "not viable" is a killer who isn't able to reliably 3K on average. Nurse, Demogorgon, Huntress, and Clown all have killrates below 65%, which means the concept of a 3K for them is not that much more feasible than a 2K, which is a draw. (according to the red rank emblem system, a 2k is a loss but that's a different story).
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@humanbeing1704 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/866233#Comment_866233
eh people find trapper more fun also it could be a factor that hag is 110 speed
I think the 110 speed has something to do with it. It might be that Hag has an over-reliance on her power and sometimes her power doesn't feel as interactive as the power of, say, Spirit, Huntress, Nurse, Billy, etc. Trap killers, in my opinion, are fun, but I think there is kind of this lack of interactivity with Hag's traps to make her fun. Maybe it's the fact that she's over reliant on her traps, maybe it's that trap killers just aren't popular.
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@SilentSpectre said:
Nice analysis. Let's hope some of these questions can get answered.
What shocked me the most was Hag being the least played killer at red ranks. Her killrate is one of the best too, so it can't be that she's weak.
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I used to run BL all the time bc of how strong it was.
I'm so happy it's getting nerfed. I can finally feel viable without it. I've been using Dead hard and Sprint Burst more, and I'm having way more fun.
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First of all, MoM in it's vanilla form was disgustingly overpowered. It needed a hard nerf like the one it got. Now the nerf went too far but that's almost only because of how inconsistent protection hits are at registering stacks of MoM.
Killers usually ######### about survivor perks if they are OP if I"m being completely honest. Decisive strike? Was pretty much 100% use rate. Granted a free escape that barely had anything resembling counterplay.
Mettle of Man? Same thing as DS. Gave a free hit for doing nothing but just playing the game and had zero counterplay.
Balanced Landing? The passive on it should never have existed. Exhaustion perks are not meant to help you during exhaustion. It made Haddonfield an even more survivor sided mess of a map than it already is.
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I hear the constant "we want to buff killers to match SWF power"
How? And when was this ever done? Spirit, the only killer post-Nurse rework able to take on SWF groups, just got nerfed and lost that ability along with it.
And I know I'm gonna hear the "If you need a BS OP killer to deal with SWF then you have an issue". No I don't. The fact that you NEED a BS OP killer to deal with SWF means SWF is the same levels of BS and OP. If it's not getting nerfed, which I don't think it should, then there needs to be some sizable killer buffs en masse.
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For a lot of very very vocal survivor mains, spamming noise notifications, flashlight clicking, and sandbagging the killer to try and get their DS to work so they can continue flashlight clicking is far more important than doing totems.
Thats why they don't like it.
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There's bigger fish to fry as far as balance goes than these relatively non-problematic killers.
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@aregularplayer said:
played nurse yesterday with her 115% movement addon, it was pretty fun. survivors had no idea what I was doing and why I was fast as f. also, far away hooks wasn't big deal on swamp
So it's more fun playing a powerless 115 MS killer than it is to play the killer with "the most broken power in the game" (reading from the Nurse chapter of the survivor rulebook).?
If that's at all true, then that proves what Nurse mains are complaining about to be 100% true. Nurse isn't fun anymore. ######### balance, Throw that ######### out the window. She could be F tier for all I ######### care. BUT SHE ISNT FUN.
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@beatddb said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/860454#Comment_860454
Keep the daily nurse threads going and hopefully they'll come out and say something. I haven't seen a single dev comment on a nurse thread after the nerf, I wonder why is that.
Simple. They're lazy. They'd rather spend time explaining to killers that you have the ability to unequip Ruin and play red ranks without it and therefore, it isn't mandatory, but none of them have the time to sit here and talk with Nurse players about why they did what they did.
And the reason why? Simple. 2 words. Survivor. Mains.
They don't like the idea of Nurse being a killer they can't loop around a pallet for 5 gens coming back.
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@Zoldyar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/856519#Comment_856519
You are saying it as if the killer can't position themselves in an angle in which the surivior can't do anything. If it really was that easy then no one would have been complaining about her add ons because her ability still stays the same.
Breaking line of sight would means the surivior would have to perfectly be near indoors or close to a corner in the timing the nurse was there. Not to mention that doesn't do much because the nurse has two blinks for a reason. You use the first one to put yourself in the position where you know what the surivior is doing and where he is. Then use the second one for the take down.
That depends on the nurse player because realistically the nurse has control of everything. Just like a surivior doing gens, they can't decide rather or not they want to do gens fast or slow.
To be honest, the devs has said that they would usually nerf a killer if they at over performing (spirit) and if there was alot of complain. Obviously, the nurse is not fun to play as or against (that's in my opinion), but just like a good surivior. If a good nurse player was to show up there is nothing a surivior can do which is why she has always been put high up in the tier list. That being said, the devs making the nurse less fun to play against wasn't a good idea(I think we did a pretty good job so far) and I don't mind the changes to make her fun. However, I don't like how people call her weak and say she cant do anything because that is very untrue.
You say all of that as if the killer would just let you do that to them multiple times. If that was the case they would have buffed the nurse not nerf her. Let me give you an example of how you would sound like if a surivior was talking about gen speed.
How to counter gen speed? Have map pressure, always make sure you are constantly on a surivior at all times to keep them off gens. You have sounds to know if a surivior is doing a gen so all of you have to do is knock down the surivior and hook them. You can also slug the surivior which can grant you a win no matter how many gens are left. Not to mention that because the surivior won't know the exact location of where you are, you can surpise attack them and knock down then down then hook them. Then just repeat the process of pressuring everyone and knocking them down then hooking them. It's easy to say, hard to do.
I mean unless you are saying the nurse is weak, I don't agree with you. But if you are saying she is unfun then this conversation is kind of pointless.
"You are saying it as if the killer can't position themselves in an angle in which the surivior can't do anything. If it really was that easy then no one would have been complaining about her add ons because her ability still stays the same."
What are you even talking about here? Yeah killers can position themselves in a way where survivors can't take certain escape routes. With Nurse your counter to her was to be unpredictable. Break LOS. Go for the clutch pallet stun every here and there. Vault windows. Use scratch marks. You had a myriad of ways to beat Nurse in a chase. Just because you never used them does not at all mean base Nurse needed nerfed. No informed opinion on Nurse rated her basekit as overpowered.
"Breaking line of sight would means the surivior would have to perfectly be near indoors or close to a corner in the timing the nurse was there. Not to mention that doesn't do much because the nurse has two blinks for a reason. You use the first one to put yourself in the position where you know what the surivior is doing and where he is. Then use the second one for the take down."
Or they just have to be nearby one of the giant structures literally scattered around the map. Also yes she has two blinks. One for gap close, the other for precision. If you break LOS effectively, her first blink to gap close isn't gonna put her in a prime position for her precision blink to actually land so she can hit you. And when you juke that? Congrats kiddo, you get a free window where she CANNOT TOUCH YOU. So use that window and run, break LOS again. Make distance on her. JFC its not a hard concept to explain. I've done it countless times as a red rank survivor and red rank Nurse player, so I know how these things play out.
"That depends on the nurse player because realistically the nurse has control of everything. Just like a surivior doing gens, they can't decide rather or not they want to do gens fast or slow"
So you're telling me the "power role" in the game actually has power? GASP the horror. Nurse is meant to be the killer where you say "the survivors are going to play by my rules now". I remember the day where Nurse was respected and feared. Where seeing a good Nurse made survivors afraid that they would lose. Now even seeing a good Nurse survivors couldn't care less. They laugh in her face.
"To be honest, the devs has said that they would usually nerf a killer if they at over performing (spirit) and if there was alot of complain. Obviously, the nurse is not fun to play as or against (that's in my opinion), but just like a good surivior. If a good nurse player was to show up there is nothing a surivior can do which is why she has always been put high up in the tier list. That being said, the devs making the nurse less fun to play against wasn't a good idea(I think we did a pretty good job so far) and I don't mind the changes to make her fun. However, I don't like how people call her weak and say she cant do anything because that is very untrue."
Blah blah blah your opinion which isn't telling of any certain majority until you say "I don't like how people call her weak".
LET ME EXPLAIN SOMETHING. Nurse needs to sacrifice one of the most important fields as a killer to use her blinks when she needs them, and that is map pressure. If you use ur blinks to patrol gens, survivors get away and you can't chase them until after their long ass 6 seconds of literal invulnerability against you. A killer with no map pressure is an F tier killer. End. Of. Story. Want proof? Old Freddy and current Leatherface. Both of them had/have atrocious map pressure. Nurse has to give up map pressure for chase power. And guess what? A killer with no map pressure is a bad killer. It doesn't matter how good their chase power is. Nurse could ignore every pallet in the game, see through walls, and instamori every survivor she touches. But if she only moves at 97%, good fkn luck trying to get that to work. No map pressure is what breaks a lot of killers. It's mostly why Clown is so bad rn.
"How to counter gen speed? Have map pressure, always make sure you are constantly on a surivior at all times to keep them off gens. You have sounds to know if a surivior is doing a gen so all of you have to do is knock down the surivior and hook them. You can also slug the surivior which can grant you a win no matter how many gens are left. Not to mention that because the surivior won't know the exact location of where you are, you can surpise attack them and knock down then down then hook them. Then just repeat the process of pressuring everyone and knocking them down then hooking them. It's easy to say, hard to do."
Map pressure is being able to go from one gen to another quickly. Map pressure is being able to quickly secure hooks before survivors get gens done. Gens get done in 80 seconds. That's long enough for one chase to blow out 3 finished gens even against Nurse. how on earth is that fair.
Second of all. Pressure is not "i find survivor I chase survivor". If that was true, 3 gen strats wouldn't be a thing. Basically what you do as killer now, especially with Nurse being a pathetic sack of bedsheets, is find the 3 generators that you really liike and try to tunnell down at least 1 dude before it's only those 3 remaining and hope to god they don't get a yolo key out of a chest or bring one in.
"I mean unless you are saying the nurse is weak, I don't agree with you. But if you are saying she is unfun then this conversation is kind of pointless."
Why are you even here? All you are doing is spreading misinformation and parroting the same equivocating bullshit that you see survivors in postgame lobbies try to pull to justify why flashlight clicking the killer was more important than doing a totem and NOED is just a 100% OP perk with no counterplay bc totems are hard. You are making zero sense.
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@FriendlyGuy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/857996#Comment_857996
Otzdarva is probably the only person having fun with new nurse right now. She's super unfun to play against good survivors without CD addons. And i thought the devs wanted to make her more fun to play and play against lmao. Do YOU have fun with new nurse? I doubt.
It's also very telling that Otz was always a bad Nurse to begin with.
@Peanits @Almo Is this the fate of Nurse that you guys are happy she's been consigned to? Rotting in an ash heap as a pathetic joke of a killer?
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@Omans said:
No need to address a change that was beneficial to the game's health.
Take the advice all you nurse players gave to survivors and adapt your play style.
You can't adapt to something that crippling. You either give up all your map control or all ur chase power. Either one of which autodrops you into an F tier killer.
So uh...please tell me how a 97% MS killer is supposed to ADAPT to her power being artificially hindered when she needed it to perform basic killer functions.
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I just 4k'd against a group of SWF buddies on the Game. They were all mad at me bc I used NOED to kill2 of them. They said things like "You did not deserve any kills" and "wow what a garbage player"
Back in the old days, before this rework, Nurse was feared. Nurse was respected. Survivors didn't make a trillion and a half errors against her and survive. Now they do. Now they don't fear her. Now they don't respect her.
If BHVR had a goal that they wanted to knock out 100% of the way, that goal should have been to reduce Nurse down to a joke of a killer. I'm ######### ashamed of these devs. From the developer team that gave us the Badham and Freddy rework, to turn around and give us this? Utterly and completely lazy and pandering. If I was a developer, I'd be ######### ashamed of myself for thinking ANYONE should enjoy these changes.
THAT is why I'm reminding everyone Nurse is miserable. Bc the hours and hours I put in to be respected as a killer are gone because BHVR doesn't know how to keep their damned word.
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@Sylorknag said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/853557#Comment_853557
It lacks play testing I would say.
The Nurse changes have proven that they don’t play test #########
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@coppersly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/858916#Comment_858916
While we're at it can we get some love for Nurse's teleporting sister Hag?
I vote trap teleportation range is increased and the little movement speed slow she gets after teleporting is reduced in duration.
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@coppersly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/858902#Comment_858902
Yeah it shows that no one on the team understands Nurse, and even less play her.
Not like we didn't give a TON of feedback on it either, yet the ONLY changes they made were to the cooldown addons... like wow they did the opposite of what we wanted lol.
ueah didn’t they nerf the cool down addons? I was banned for having too strong an opinion on this so I’m just recently back on the forums
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@Uxoricide said:
Agree, I check here on a daily basis to see if there are any news based off the data... I used to main her without add one and judging by the forum I'm not the only one who completely stopped playing her, swapped to survivor or uninstalled... She is so unfun now...
Same. My line of thinking is that if we complain enough about her like survivors complain about...oh what’s the list
new killer being OP (seen like 5 posts already crying about Oni), Spirit, Legion, Forever Freddy, Ghostface, Noed, and that’s just some
if we we complain about Nurse the way the hardcore entitled survivors complain about that stuff, I think we can probably get BHVRs attention
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@madds said:
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/894/81IVZAEUT4EF.png
Some people have fun with new Nurse. Some people don't. That's okay. Personally, I believe the place she's in is healthier for the game because it gives survivors more counterplay to her fundamentally BROKEN ability. She can completely ignore survivor defenses. Her old basekit was more fair than 5 blink or omega blink, but it was still ridiculously strong. Super good Nurse players did NOT need anything more than her base to completely decimate an optimal survivor team. Even bad Nurse players sometimes got rewarded because they constantly got a second chance at landing their blink.
Not everyone is going to agree with the changes, but a lot of people like them. The devs are not going to change anything unless they see that the Nurse is underperforming in matches. I understand that there are a lot of people around here who aren't satisfied with the Nurse changes, but you cannot say that she is criminally unfun for every killer player. She's still one of the best killers in the game, and the changes aren't so drastic that she feels like a different one either. I hate saying this to people, but please, for the love of god, just adapt to how she is now.
First of all. Barely anybody who played Nurse before the changes actually likes the basekit change. And the fact that she has Effectively Houdini’d Her way out of the game after this rework is absolutely ridiculous. It shows that this rework was too hard a nerf and that the devs gave this rework borderline zero thought
as someone who is struggling to find any fun playing Nurse, I feel insulted that BHVR thinks this lazy piece of garbage of a killer is a successful rework. From the devs who brought us the Badham rework and the Freddy rework, this Nurse rework is goddamned shameful.
And for ur last point about “just adapt”, yeah I’ll get right on that. In the meantime can you tell survivors to stop complaining about Noed/Ghostface/Spirit/Oni/Legion and just adapt instead of whining?
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@Almo said:
Complaints are a clue. If there are a lot of complaints we look at the thing in question. Sometimes we find the complaints have a good basis, other times we don't. But they are a good indication that something needs to be considered.
So survivors complain about Spirit, Nurse, Freddy, Legion, and now Oni and nerfs usually come pretty quick but killers have been complaining about Haddonfield, a bunch of old maps, and game speeds forever and we haven't gotten a lick of recognition.
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@Rin_is_my_waifu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/852397#Comment_852397
I mean the "crying for nerfs" trend now, is about these two perks
Again, when did the crying for nerfs start?
Noed, Ruin, Blood Warden, Franklins, Rancor, Insidious. Any of those perks ring a bell as far as "whiny survivors" go?
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@RIP_Legion said:
Btw for anyone wanting proof this is why they nerfed the mend time
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/945/NXU72RW6826B.jpg
That's a dev
Okay yeah @Almo Since when did Borrowed time need a buff?
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@avilmask said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/852389#Comment_852389
Bop gonna give "undetectable", not just hidden blood stain.
OH IT IS? I guess it's still kinda sucky that you need to get BL to use it.
@Rin_is_my_waifu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/852379#Comment_852379
Survivors are upset that legion will be finally viable with BoP and the nemesis perk, so they have already started crying to make the devs do something asap
Survivors started crying? Honestly when did they stop?
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@NuclearBurrito said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/852379#Comment_852379
hate? This is love.
Wait. wait.
I get it now. Nemesis inflicts Oblivious and Deep wounds...yeah I get it now.
But how does BoP help with that?
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/850066#Comment_850066
Sorta'. Only the person using the perk will see the auras when another survivor is hooked. When the person using the perk is on the hook, then everyone will see each other's auras.
The perk is already redundant and not useful for SWF but is too important for a solo to pass up. Why would you not just implement at least the survivor aura reveal to base kit?
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What's the sudden hate brigade agianst BoP for?
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@Zoldyar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/850800#Comment_850800
She is viable because she still has the power to end chases faster. The only problem is how patient a killer has to be while using her. For the map pressure, I don't think it's a big deal because even though she can cover less map pressure she did before, she can still get to areas very fast. If you saw the link I sent of a guy testing her teleportation distance. She can still get around the map well and catch up to any surivior.
As somebody who plays 50/50, I can tell you Nurse only ends chases as fast as you're implying if she is MILES better than survivors in terms of skill. If she is Miles ahead of survivors in skill. Then no, those survivors should not be escaping, at all. You face down someone leagues better than you, do not expect to win. And if you do expect to win, you are very entitled. As a survivor who also plays a lot of Nurse, I can tell you it is far easier to play against her now than it is to play against any other killer.
One juke against Huntress? Hag? Spirit? Billy? Myers? Plague? They stick on you. One juke against Nurse? Nope. She's peaceing out.
You keep arguing that patience is now the way to play Nurse. That is bad. Base Nurse already required patience. You are patient with ur blinks? You land on the survivor and hit them. You aren't? You miss and go through fatigue. This whole line of "The only problem is how patient a killer has to be while using her" is just a bunch of equivocating bullshit.
You strike me as somebody who doesn't play Nurse, at all. If she's such a great killer still, like you argue she is, why has she just up and Houdini'd her way out of red ranks. She borderline does not exist up here.
@Omans said:
Nurse has disappeared from red ranks because all the previous nurse players who were used to an overpowered, overtuned killer feel jilted even though she is still the best, possibly second best killer. If this cooldown is all it takes to make the nurse go from super fun to super boring, it sounds to me like you are not being truthful to yourselves. She isn't overtuned anymore. And that's why all those previous nurses aren't using her.
You strike me as somebody who doesn't understand that a 6 second cooldown to a power, divided into one 2.5 second cooldown and another 3.5 second cooldown, isn't fun or fair. Especially when that power is necessary for basic killer functions. Imagine if Clown or Legion needed to use their powers otherwise they're slower than survivors. Imagine if Huntress moved at 90% MS and needed her hatchets to down survivors. Would you still argue that those killers are still good? I don't think you would. She's out of red ranks where the metaslaves sit. Metaslaves don't main a killer bc they're fun, they main them bc they're good.
And by all means if you think Nurse is still the best killer in the game, please prove me wrong. Post a video of you grinding Nurse to R1 in one sitting. Prove to me that she's still the best. My guess is you'll realize how wrong you are once you leave rank 9.
@DepressedClownMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/104746/the-nurse-is-being-ignored
Nurse was very easy to play. Took me less than 10 hours with her to get 4ks in red ranks. The new nurse requires actual skill, and while I wont say she is fun because that is totally player dependant, she is strong and balanced, being the best killer in game if the person using her has mastered her ability
Yeha no. That is just a lie. Unless you had Omegablink or 3/4/5 Blink, you did not steamroll red rank survivors with only 10 hours of practice.
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@Zoldyar said:
You are saying it as if millions of people were even good while playing with her.
Once again, she kept her function of using her power just more drawbacks.
Once again, I said nurse isn't a fun much of an enjoyable killer and is from it if you read through my previous argument. It's clear that you responding means you highlighted one of the arguments I was in, but never bothered reading through it.
I also mention what you said about the duration not being fun and that is very understandable. However, you must understand that the devs are thinking of methods to make harder to learn, but enjoyable to to play once fully understand. This is to keep the surivior mains to stop making constant reports about a killer.
If that's you conclusion, then fair enough. I'm just here to be reasonable (somewhat). If you and many people do think it has a big impact and deed her as unfun then I can't what's fun for you and what isn't.
First of all the video you linked with Nurse literally states that if a Survivor notices you blinking directly at them, that hit is not possible, meaning you can get ran for the length of the Thompson house without concern from survivors bc you just wont catch them. So that video hurts you more than helps ur BS case that Nurse is still this S+++++++ killer.
You aren’t at all being reasonable. The point of this rework as the devs said is to make her more fair. But she *ISNT MORE FAIR*. She’s unfair, except now it’s unfair to play as her, not against her.
Nobody wants to play Nurse, she has disappeared from the red ranks where all the meta slaves live and the silence on her from the devs is very VERY telling. Clearly they are proud of this rework despite it being a lazy mess of nerfs and half baked reworks. From the people who brought us the Freddy rework, this is ######### shameful and I’m insulted that they think this is good.
She isn’t fun, she’s fallen out of red rank viability, and her counterplay is literally run in a straight line like a rank 20. She’s no fun and she’s no good.
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@Freesham said:
I mentioned this to friends and they seem to like to the idea.
NOED is no longer a hex perk. When all generators are complete, or when hatch is closed and end game is initiated, NOED gains tokens equal to the number of dull totems on the map when it activates. Every time a killer hits a survivor with a basic attack (could be a healthy or injured survivor), one stack is removed. When NOED runs out of stacks is deactivates.
So if there's only one dull on the map when gens are complete, killer only gets one insta down. Two dulls = two insta downs, and so on.
I used to want Noed reworked.
when I made it to red ranks as killer I finally realized how wrong I was.
Do the damn totems If Noed is a problem.
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@FriendlyGuy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/842847#Comment_842847
I'm a nurse main too. And the nerf was definitly a huge nerf, but she's still the best, i can agree on that.
enlighten me on how a killer is still the best when the counterplay to Them is to hold W and shift
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Yo dude if you’ve got time to comment on this you’ve got time to go address the dozens of posts about people not liking the Nurse changes.
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@Uxoricide said:
@MightyDwight Yeah I know what you mean lol but I'M STILL HOPING lol
regarding ur math quizz, the odd's are still 4 % aren't they? :D the chance doesn't decrease so for each hook there's a 4 % chance
Keep up the forum posts. Literally drown the forums in posts about Nurse and eventually they’ll be forced to do something.
Also. *speak with your wallet*. I’m not buying the new DLC until I hear news about reverting the basekit nerf and a timeframe for when it’s gonna happen. They didn’t respond to my question on this at their AMA, and they don’t respond to anything on these cursed forums but one day they’ll probably remember Nurse exists
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@AkiTheKitten said:
Honestly, if I hook someone else then get hit by DS, I'll tunnel the DS user. That's what you get for using a still-broken perk
That's some backwards logic you've got there. Ideally a survivor running DS is trying to get you off them with DS, then you should probably back down.
With this mindset I bet you lose a lot :/
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@kcwolf1975 said:
I hate the ds during endgame, you know it is coming so you can either eat it and watch them tbag through the gate or let them crawl out.
At least let them crawl out like the maggots they are lol.
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@LetsPlayTogether said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/846163#Comment_846163
Ah so why did so many highranked Nurses never used any Addons, if they would have been so easily jukeable? And still got their 4k? Nurse was too powerful even only with basekit. There is nothing to argue against this, cause this was a fact shown by data. Now you have to play around and cant blink mindlessly. So stop telling lies.
High ranked Nurses never used addons because they screwed with muscle memory. It's true that it was possible to 4k with her basekit, just like it's possible to escape without items. I fail to see why getting a 4k without addons is problematic when escaping without items is seen as perfectly fine.
Also can you show me the data of what exactly the killrate was for a Nurse with no addons. I'd love to know.
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@LetsPlayTogether said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/845963#Comment_845963
Also a basekit killer shouldnt be able to easy 4k. Thats how basekit Nurse was like. Now not. Thats totally fine. They just have to fix certain issues mostly related to dedicated server, thats all.
No it wasn't. Nurse with her basekit was very jukable actually. Now with her basekit good luck getting out of green ranks, you'll be miserable.
But even if you escape green rank, you'll still be miserable. That basekit nerf is crippling. No informed opinion on Nurse rated her basekit as too strong. It was just an appeasement attempt...
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@FriendlyGuy said:
I'm still playing her and i can say it's big fun, if you use cooldown addons..
A killer should not only be fun if you have the right addons.
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@yoi said:
no, becasue killers arent allowed to have fun in the game only survivors. sorry mate.
:(
Nurse was such a fun killer before this change. I understand the addons needed to be changed and I like that the problematic ones were removed, but I seriously wish that they would have left her basekit alone. It feels so unfun to play around.
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@dinocat2 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/844281#Comment_844281
Do you want them to remove being able to play with your friends?
I don't think anyone really wants a nerf like that to happen. But I think the problem is that the power level of SWF is too strong for any killer that isn't Spirit, Maybe Nurse, maybe Freddy, and maybe Billy. A lot of killers have a checkered history with SWF groups. Some of them are fine, but some of them are very unfun to play against whether they are toxic, abusing matchmaking, or just simply unpleasant to play with by abusing map structure or gen times.
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@Saitamfed said:
Nurse is not ignored and perhaps is not the spot the devs want she to be but it takes a lot of time to rework a killer, there is already a lot of issues and reworks that devs need to do.
That doesn't mean gut Nurse and move on. They promised us they'd handle her carefully and not nerf anything that was controversial.
As Zuko says in the Last Airbender, "what an amazing lie that was".
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@Zoldyar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/845426#Comment_845426
First off, the point was to explain the nerf on nurse, so I don't get the point of your first paragraph.
So you done your calculation, so why don't you calculate how long the chase would be if you land all your hits as Nurse. Also, you are saying it as if the nurse blinks can't catch up with the nurse which is untrue.
For what you said about the suriviors being unable to dodge the nurse doesn't make much sense to me. This is because if you are a good nurse you can put yourself in a position in which there is nothing the surivior can do to dodge. Also, that argument can be used as a way for suriviors to call the nurse a bad for missing there attack.
Nurse's power is too weak? Are we speaking about the nurse that can go through walls and ignore all defences that a surivior has? Capable of not only applying fast chase time, but also capable of applying map pressure?
The reason why people use Spirit is because she is a free, easy win without any challenge. Don't believe me you can just watch Scott jund who made a 2 hours video of him winning constantly as a spirit. He doesn't call himself a skilful nor main spirit which says alot.
The nurse I play as sometimes with what I seen of good nurse players are disgusting. To say she is unfun I can understand(but she wasn't really that fun in the first place without add on), but to say she can get bullied and is weak. Now you are just over exaggerating or haven't seen the nurse players I been against.
Okay ur first point was to try and justify a basekit nerf by explaining a problem that stemmed from her addons. So why you think you were justifying a nerf to her basekit by explaining an addon problem is beyond my comprehension.
"So you done your calculation, so why don't you calculate how long the chase would be if you land all your hits as Nurse. Also, you are saying it as if the nurse blinks can't catch up with the nurse which is untrue."
She travels 20 meters with the initial blink, 12 with a fully charged chainblink. At best she can travel 32 meters in one burst and then has to wait 6 seconds before being able to move at that speed again. Survivors run at 4.0 meters. In 6 seconds they can cover 24 meters. Against Nurse who runs at 3.85 meters. Survivors gain .15 meters per second. So by 6 seconds they gain over 1 meter on Nurse, this is not at all including her fatigue stun which kicks her movement speed down to almost 0 for survivors to get a free 9 meters on her. When you consider LOS breakers, the fact that Nurse is slowed while charging a blink, and the number of bugs/glitches that turn Nurse into "dead by dedicated servers", the counterplay for Nurse is boiled down to "Hold shift and W. Profit".
"Nurse's power is too weak? Are we speaking about the nurse that can go through walls and ignore all defences that a surivior has? Capable of not only applying fast chase time, but also capable of applying map pressure?"
The same Nurse that moves slower than survivors and needs her power to catch up to them? The same Nurse who has a 6 second cooldown on one power? Separated into one 2.5 second cooldown and one 3.5 second cooldown? Yeah, the very same.
"The reason why people use Spirit is because she is a free, easy win without any challenge. Don't believe me you can just watch Scott jund who made a 2 hours video of him winning constantly as a spirit. He doesn't call himself a skilful nor main spirit which says alot."
So how did she only start dominating red ranks after Nurse, the only other red rank viable killer, was reworked?
"The nurse I play as sometimes with what I seen of good nurse players are disgusting. To say she is unfun I can understand(but she wasn't really that fun in the first place without add on), but to say she can get bullied and is weak. Now you are just over exaggerating or haven't seen the nurse players I been against."
So your examples are the only ones that exist? I've seen dozens of people talk about how easy it is to bully Nurses right now. I've seen tons of people, including myself, who had fun with old Nurse with no addons, and now we're at least heavily considering leaving her because she isn't fun anymore. I have way more examples of people who are not a fan of current Nurse than you have of your own accounts. I'm a rank 4 Nurse. I continue to main her because I love her concept and character, but goddamn she is NOT fun anymore.
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@DevourOfSalt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/845462#Comment_845462
I cant even begin to understand why developers have gone silent are they hoping everyone will slowly forget the nurse if they say nothing ? Because if that the case its not going to happen.
There silence isn't helping anything and with new killer around the corner people will remember this and refuse to buy it (i hope)
You cant treat players like this and hope they continue to support you) at the end of the day there going to hurt them selfs later down the line.
I just asked on their AMA if they have any plans to change her. I have gotten no response. I doubt they will change her anytime soon but if there are no plans to change her, then I'm packing it up and going back to League. I love playing killer, but if I can't be viable with Nurse then I don't wanna play the game.
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@xllxENIGMAxllx said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/845378#Comment_845378
What the no items have to do with no add-ons. Why made add-ons if no one is using them in the first place. When survivors use items here by exemple toolboxes, All we get is gen rush right.
Killer having too much power with base kit make the add-ons too strong which was the case with old nurse with omega blink / thousand blinks. This make the huge difference if you can't accept that then they should revert old nurse both add-ons and basekit.
4s cooldown is nothing many can't accept i get it me neither i didn't want it but he could have been worse. Imagine a 20s cooldown with a slightly increase m/s from 96% to 100 is that all of you want.
Legion was bad and is even worse now. Nurse was the strongest killer and is still on top 3 for sure most of you only try her for a few minutes. I admit that my skill is not godly which is why strong teams destroy me however i do admit that she lose a lot of map pressure on maps like rotten fields , crotus prenn , red forest etc... but that's it she still have two blinks , have the same charge , same range but only 4s cooldown.
Conclusion : She is still strong but like everyone i wish her basekit was untouched. Her add-ons are interresting but could use some tweaks.
Nobody liked using Nurse's addons before the rework not because she was fine without them. We didn't like using addons because they toyed with our muscle memory. She WAS fine without them, but that isn't an issue. A killer should not need to run addons in order to be viable against a group of survivors who bring no items or addons into the game. Killers who play optimally should be able to match survivors who play optimally without items or addons for their item/power. Nurse being able to match no-item SWF groups without addons was not a problem. What was a problem was that a lot of her addons did not have drawbacks and gave her too many second chances.
"Killer having too much power with base kit make the add-ons too strong which was the case with old nurse with omega blink / thousand blinks. This make the huge difference if you can't accept that then they should revert old nurse both add-ons and basekit."
Omegablink was a problem because range addons did not have any actual drawbacks and blink charge was based on % instead of numbers. Now, with the new range addons, blink range is based on numbers instead of % to a fully charged blink. So now you CAN have 30M blink ranges if you so desire, but you now have to charge it longer to get there. That seems fair to me. 5 blink no longer exists. The worst it can get is 3 blinks, which has a giant drawback that is honestly not worth the extra blink.
"4s cooldown is nothing many can't accept i get it me neither i didn't want it but he could have been worse. Imagine a 20s cooldown with a slightly increase m/s from 96% to 100 is that all of you want."
So it's not a bad change bc it could have been worse? What kind of logic is that? Legion could have been left a 110 M/S killer and the deep wound timer could have been increased by 60 seconds so the rework wasn't that bad, it could have been worse! Just bc the devs had SOME restraint with the changes doesn't mean the changes aren't awful.
"Legion was bad and is even worse now. Nurse was the strongest killer and is still on top 3 for sure most of you only try her for a few minutes. I admit that my skill is not godly which is why strong teams destroy me however i do admit that she lose a lot of map pressure on maps like rotten fields , crotus prenn , red forest etc... but that's it she still have two blinks , have the same charge , same range but only 4s cooldown."
Okay first of all, "if you only try her for a few minutes" is more insulting than this rework. I am a rank 4 Nurse main. I know how to play her and I know where she stands right now. She's nowhere near top 3. I'd put her in top 6 to be generous.
"She is still strong but like everyone i wish her basekit was untouched. Her add-ons are interresting but could use some tweaks."
Some of her addons (Looking at you Spasmodic) need full blown reworks bc they are just that bad.
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@SirBassington said:
Red rank Nurse main here to insert my input. And before I start, remember we are talking about a killer who is rated as Hard for a reason so points can be valid from any perspective within reason. TL;DR in very last paragraph for the lazy killer.
I play Nurse heavily with no addons ever (before and after the changes), sometimes I run pure vanilla (no perks also) because I can and why not. I have been playing her since about 3 months after she came out (18 August 2016) as at the time I was a wraith main looking to switch for a challenge; ah the days of when there was 5 survivors and 4 killers, feels like yesterday that was a thing lol. I wasn't always good with Nurse, I started with the old addons of the metal spoon and wooden horse and stopped using them when I felt comfortable with her base power.
I taught myself that the Nurse should be played with patience, she should not be played on impulses or erratic behavior. I strictly kept my blinks to a formal pattern of waiting before blinking again as it doesn't make sense to keep going into a fatigue state and continuously wonder if I am trailing the survivors right as scratch marks can be dastardly on some maps.
As someone who plays 50/50 of both sides, it was really nice not having matches that were less than 7 minutes because queues can take a while, hence why I throttled my blinks to a minimal until I needed them. This Nurse change of a timer adds a feature/restriction that I have always used on my own and that managed to get me to where I play now in the1-6 rank range until rank reset annoys me again or I just stay lazy in ranks I clearly don't belong in haha.
Her addon change was done beautifully, before they changed I never actively used them because they changed Nurse's blink power too much which affected muscle memory when you want to learn and remember how to play her with or without said addon. Now the addons are much more natural that they don't overly contort her power while keeping them within a reasonable range of stability.
Overall the changes to Nurse from me are greatly welcomed as I have nothing but favorable opinions towards. No more excessive blink nurses with no cooldown besides fatigue, no more "I can't get out of her reach/sight" scenarios all the time. The Nurse didn't really change, all that really changed was the addition of a short timer (which starts during fatigue) and improved/reworked addons. She didn't change, she still plays the same, you just can't spam blinks all over the map now and I love that from both perspectives.
And sure while people can argue she still is overpowered in a way, lets remember she is the slowest killer by max base speed (with and without addons), cannot instadown survivors with her ability, ensnare them in contraptions to draw out the time of a match, stalk to an gain upper advantages, mind game by standing still, make them sick so even Iron Will is useless, etc etc. The Nurse only gets the ability to phase from point A to point B regardless of solid objects except those blasted outer walls or outskirts of exit gates. And yeah, you can get stuck on objects and even go to the wrong elevation on some maps and areas depending on how the blink goes through sometimes but that's okay, it's bound to happen eventually. Nurse is a killer where survivors can always watch as you make a move and adjust accordingly and further trick you into perceiving the wrong direction they plan to move. When played wisely, or dumb luck occurs, the Nurse is a lethal killer.
TL;DR If the Nurse is 'harder' now, then either: (A) you have been abusing her previous old mechanics (which just have a cooldown timer now). (B) you have been working off of impulses for pursuits, all because waiting is too much to handle. or (C) you cannot fathom why she is preferred when other killers have various clear advantages in other areas.
Okay yeah I sorely doubt somebody that intentionally hampered themselves the way this basekit nerf did made it to red ranks without addons. You wanna know how I know? Because the counterplay to her is to hold shift and W and boom, 2 maybe 3 gens get done before she catches you.
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@DevourOfSalt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/845378#Comment_845378
Thank you for sharing you pretty much some up everything. I and many other have frustrations with.
It not that nurse isn't strong, its how unfun she is in this state like you said we play games for fun, when u start making game unfun people will try different things if they continue to make killers unfun it wont be long before theres discussions asking (why does it take 2hrs + to find a killer or something like that)
Eventually people who enjoy playing killer will slowly stop if thing like this continue.
Honestly I have one word that sums up my opinion on this Nurse rework: Insulted.
I feel insulted that BHVR thinks this is the best work they can give us for the Nurse when they designed the Freddy rework and the Badham rework.
I feel insulted that BHVR thinks an addon that completely removes your power for using it well is a good or well designed addon to give to a killer that is supposed to be all about her power.
I feel insulted at how lazy some of her addons look and feel.
I feel insulted that BHVR promised only slight tweaks to her basekit if any at all and then proceeded to drop an anvil on her head.
This rework just feels like one walking insult.
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@xllxENIGMAxllx said:
@Peanits @not_Queen This thread is for you guys.
They aren't gonna check this thread. Based on their actions during the PTB for this change (being pages and pages of negative feedback about this), I highly doubt they're gonna chime in on this one.
Best thing anyone can try is to keep flooding the post with Nurse threads until the devs decide to concede. Which...This is a start.
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@Zoldyar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/104746/the-nurse-is-being-ignored
She wasn't that hard to control when using 5 blinks add on, even if you were new at this game.
How is she unfun and uncomfortable to play as when she still function the same? All you have to do now is be more patient with your blinks if you are always replying on using multiple blinks.
She still function the same as ever, so your reasoning for complaining about her makes no sense. Just because she is hard to use, doesn't mean she is unfun. It means you are just not good at using her unlike other players. Why don't you take your time and properly learn her instead of always wanting to constantly blink all the time?
Why should the nurse be able to move that fast when she is capable of ignoring all defences against suriviors? This isn't a complaint, it is just you wanting her to be like how you want her to play as.
Moreover, why would the devs monitor her still? There's plenty of gameplay out there to show the new nurse is srill capable of easily getting 3k all games if you know how to use her.
Okay hold on I'll go 1 by 1.
"She wasn't that hard to control when using 5 blinks add on, even if you were new at this game."
Which the basekit nerf on its own changed nothing about and was removed by popular demand since everyone agreed it was OP.
"How is she unfun and uncomfortable to play as when she still function the same? All you have to do now is be more patient with your blinks if you are always replying on using multiple blinks."
If you are always relying on single blinks you are playing her wrong or against some pretty bad survivors. You need your double blink if you are going to catch a survivor, having to wait an extra 3.5 seconds after ur 2.5 second fatigue stun gives survivors too much room to escape her. Even if you ARE more patient with your blinks, you are slower than survivors. You CANNOT afford to spend any more time than you did before the nerf walking around at 97%.
"Why should the nurse be able to move that fast when she is capable of ignoring all defences against suriviors? This isn't a complaint, it is just you wanting her to be like how you want her to play as."
I'd rather keep her at 97% but revert her base kit nerf. If you can't juke Nurse without omegablink, 3/4/5 blink, and reappearing during her blink sooner, then that's entirely on you as a player not being good enough, not on Nurse being overpowered. Right now people want her movement speed to be at least 100% or higher because her power is too weak to be a necessity, but IS a necessity. Stop acting like "ignoring all defenses for survivors" didn't come with a price.
"Moreover, why would the devs monitor her still? There's plenty of gameplay out there to show the new nurse is srill capable of easily getting 3k all games if you know how to use her."
From SOME streamers. If you were in red rank you'd see that she literally disappeared and was replaced with Spirit. She is pretty much not a killer above purple rank anymore.
I play 50/50, played against a Nurse yesterday before I went to work. Oh god the poor thing. She was getting bullied like mad. I could tell she was a good Nurse too. She was P3, had BBQ, Nurses, I'm all Ears, and MYC. Every single time she pulled a godlike play and mindgamed a survivor, she was either flashlighted or a gen popped. There are too many constraints against Nurse right now aimed at making bad survivors more viable against good Nurses, and this made good survivors untouchable against good Nurses. It's sad.
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@Spooky13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/845035#Comment_845035
I feel it should only disable when working on gens. Because working on gens allows you to progress the objective without worry, whereas hiding in a locker, getting healed, and breaking totems aren't that detrimental to the killer.
Ideally, DS should be
- Once unhooked, a 40/50/60 second timer will begin. If you are picked up during that time, successfully complete a skill check to escape the killer's grasp and stun them for 5 seconds.
- If another survivor is downed/hooked, the perk will immediately deactivate.
- Repairing a generator during this time period will also result in the timer deactivating.
DS is supposed to be an anti-tunneling perk, and it is perfectly fine in that department, but DS true problems begin when you can just sit on a gen while the killer is coming towards you with absolutely zero repercussions. It should be an anti-tunneling perk, not a "I just got unhooked, you can't touch me for 60 seconds while I work on gens." Which is all because the timer for DS lasts way to long.
You can still slug them. They aren't invincible. You slug them and you either force their Unbreakable or another dude wastes his time to pick his buddy up and by the time it happens, the DS timer is probably zero anyways.
If DS disabled when the killer downed/hooked another survivor, then the killer can camp a hook, survivor could pull a save, killer can hooktrade and then go after the unhooked dude, suddenly now the unhooked dude IS getting tunneled, but doesn't have the anti tunnel perk he needs in order to save himself from that killer.
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Alright the Devs decided I'm allowed to say things now so I'mma crack my knuckles and dive right on in.
@LordRegal said:
I’ve said this in a lot of threads, I’ll say it again. I freely admit Nurse still performs well when you’re working your ass off. The problem is that it isn’t fun to play her anymore. You get doubly punished for using her power. You have to wait (fatigue) and wait again (recharge) every single time you use your power. It just feels incredibly punishing and not fun.
I can still 4k with her. Doesn’t mean I want to play her when I could be playing more fun killers
This pretty much sums up opinions regarding the Nurse right now. Nurse mains are fleeing her in droves because of the basekit changes, she has virtually disappeared from red ranks and the power vacuum was filled with our favorite blue girl, the Spirit, who is now being nerfed after the DC campaign got their wish granted. It doesn't have to be because she's weak, honestly I would rate her in the top 6 or maybe top 5 for killers still, but the problem is that we play video games to have fun. If something isn't fun, we aren't gonna use it. Nurse isn't fun. It was fun to be able to trade base movement speed for a 100% raw skill power that you had to aim, project, predict, and have the muscle memory to work with. Any informed opinion on Nurse was that she was fine with her basekit. Nerfing her basekit was a bridge too far. She's not good enough to make it at red ranks anymore unless you are too good with her, which is a population that barely exists if it does at all.
@Aven_Fallen said:
"constantly only get one blink because u forget to hold it 1 sec longer"
If this happens quite often, not Nurse is the problem.
She is still the best Killer in the game. She is a lot harder to play tho because you cannot yolo-blink just after missing your first sets of Blinks. Now there is punishment for missing Blinks, which was not the case before.
I'm getting the impression that you haven't played old Nurse. There was always a punishment for blinking. Maybe the base fatigue stun of 2 seconds wasn't long enough, but to add a whole new cooldown on top of a cooldown for 1 power, is not the way to answer that problem. Expanding on Nurse's fatigue stun to make it either last a bit longer, make it more penalizing by blocking vision and sound more, or completely stop her movement, would have been a more tangible way to nerf her for survivors to adapt to the changes, but wouldn't have made a change that messed with muscle memory for Nurse players (keep in mind, screwing with muscle memory was the whole reason they adjusted all of Nurse's addons to begin with). The change BHVR went through with makes the counterplay to Nurse no longer "Break LOS and juke her. Keep her guessing" and is now "run in a straight line. It'll take so long to catch you that she'll give up". That is unhealthy counterplay. The side that is supposed to be weaker in the chase has to do little more than run in a straight line while the power role literally just cannot catch up to them.
To put into context how bad the basekit change is. The cooldown to get your second blink back is 3.5 seconds after your fatigue stun for a double blink. Base fatigue stun is 2 seconds and every chainblink adds .5 seconds. 3.5 seconds is the equivalent of 1(2 seconds)+3(1.5 seconds) which means there is the same cooldown on current double blink that there was on 4 blinks.
@xllxENIGMAxllx said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/841548#Comment_841548
Such a powerful killer that everyone make it weaker than she is. I mean sure she's weaker than before but at right hand you are still as strong as before. Add-ons are here to be used and old nurse no one were using them. Sure except omega blink and thousand blink combo but overall all good nurse weren't using any. How is that normal no one should play against the best players and win with base kit.
However i'm not happy with base kit change but could have been way worse. Sensitivity and framerate and why nurse is so unplayable. As a nurse main on PS4 i still 4k with her at red ranks just not against the best teams because my skill is not that high.
"how is it normal that a killer can play with no add-ons and win"
First of all, add-ons should not be the source of a killer's power. Basekit should be viable. If a no item Claudette squad is gonna load into my Trapper games, I should not need Stitched bag to have a shot at beating them.
So let me spin that question. How is it at all fair that survivors get to be 100% viable without items but somehow killers should need addons? If I spawn in as Nea with no items and just my standard perk build, a killer should not need to run addons so that they are viable against me and my team. It isn't at all fair. Is it fair because survivors lose their items halfway through? That doesn't mean anything since chests exist and can supply survivors with new items (plus unless you are overusing ur item or if it's a low rarity item you often aren't losing it during the trial anyways.), they keep their items if they escape, and besides items are far more impactful than most killer addons. Most purple addons for killers do absolutely nothing compared to the Styptic agent, for example.
Nurse being red rank viable without addons was also mostly a myth. It only was ever really true if survivors weren't playing 100% optimally. If they were, then you needed at least something to put some stock into.
@GrootDude said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/841686#Comment_841686
Because those go away mid-game. Unless you want Medkits, toolboxes and maps to last all game? Also, these items can be temporarily removed with a perk.
As I said previously, unless you are overusing that item, or it's a one time use item, you shouldn't be losing your item in the game anyways. Games don't last long enough for ur items to really get lost. Franklin's isn't very common unless you have a key or the killer fears some god tier items.
@Eleghost said:
Going to go with a hard no. for examples see legion changes.
Unfortunately this sums up how Nurse is being treated. Devs accomplished their set goal with this rework, they ended the complaints about her being too strong. Now any complaints about her being too weak are met with silence. That silence is rather deafening, ngl.
As a Nurse main myself, who has been against the basekit nerf part of her rework from the beginning, I am sad and heartbroken to see how right I was about this change being the nail in her coffin. She was not treated with the care that BHVR promised they would approach her with.