Phasmamain
Phasmamain
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- Phasmamain
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I literally don’t see any issues removing perk tiers. Obviously I don’t know the coding/design involved but it would improve the grind immensely, make perks easier to design (no more discordance situations) and make perks easier for new players to understand
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@Name_Unavailable said:
Nurse and Blight almost the same. Very hard only at the start but then they are easy to play.
Hillbilly is the hardest to master imo, And all the ones who master him is from 2016-2017. No new Billy mains which makes them also very rare.
Yeah billy definitely has one of the highest skill ceilings in the game. Still not as high as Pinhead imo but definitely at least top 5
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@PlaysByShady said:
In my opinion there are killer I think have a higher skill ceiling. The main one I’ll mention here is Pinhead. His possessed chain has a similar summon to a nurse blink and also requires that you hit a precise projectile. All this and you aren’t even guaranteed the hit and have to use your basic M1 mechanics to secure it. This is already more of a skill ceiling than nurse and that’s not even taking into account box management. Skilled coenobites using Lethal pursuer can figure out where the box spawns correlating to survivors positions.
Oh dear, here we go. You're missing a number of crucial points.
1) Pinhead is a 115% killer. Even if you never use his power, you can literally still chase survivors down as per normal. Nurse is completely dependent on her blinks... and specifically getting accurate blinks to hit the target. Therefore, Nurse requires more mastery as she has more obstacles.
2) Pinhead's possessed chain, whilst fair enough requires you to aim and hit a target, cannot be equated to Nurse's blinks. He can literally see exactly where the chain will open, and there's a long window where he can look around and aim with it. In contrast, Nurse (by default) cannot see where her blink will land and has to commit to it anyway, with a very short window to do anything about it. And after the blink there is a punishing cooldown where she cannot see the survivors, nor can she use her power again, nor move. Therefore, Nurse has more obstacles to overcome and has a higher ceiling.
If you want to equate the chain to something, it's closer to Huntress hatchets and Deathslingers rifle where you can just aim and shoot, and carry on chasing... except they're 110% killers so Cenobite still has a movement advantage on top of them.
3) Cenobite literally gets free slowdown during the course of the match. At least one survivor has to get off gens to find and solve the cube. When this happens, Cenobite can instantly transport to where they are (no mis-transportations, etc). If he's successful at capturing the box, or the survivors don't get the cube, the survivors literally get harassed by chains where it's very difficult (impossible, contextually) for them to complete objectives. Nurse gets none of this. Whilst she's in chase with a survivor, the other survivors are free to complete objectives without hindrance.
4) Nurse's ability comes with a lot of restrictions... one of which is the inconsistent blinking out of basement. I can't tell you how many times this week alone I've just had my blinks swallowed and been trapped down there... forced to suffer fatigue, wait for the recharge and just float up the stairs, losing a lot of valuable time in the process. Cenobite doesn't need to go through any of this.
Exactly how balanced and fair were you being when you came up with this position of yours?? Seems to me your analysis was exceptionally shallow.
Firstly I’m talking about the time/practice required to play these killers at the highest levels. Pinhead being 115% is pretty irrelevant when we are talking about mastery since you can’t rely on that to win matches.
I think you’re forgetting the projectile part of pinhead’s chain. Not only do you have to place to gateway close you have to actually hit the chain. With nurse firstly you have a second blink and secondly hitting the lunge is easier
Teleporting to the box is actually a whole other facet to his skill ceiling. It comes with the risk of resetting progress so you have to think quick about which option is better. This is not to mention learning the spawn algorithm and tracking down the survivor who has it.
Bugs don’t apply to a skill ceiling imo. They are something you can’t plan around or get better with really
As @Mooks said you are confusing her skill floor with her skill ceiling
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Legion as a killer will just never be fun or engaging imo. His power focuses on stalling the game and actively avoiding chases a lot of the time. Plus mending as a mechanic is just m1 simulator
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Agreed. A god nurse to me is more so someone who is exceptionally good as opposed to someone who literally never misses a blink.
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@Blueberry said:
Yeah I'd definitely put a few killers above Nurse for skill requirement to perfection. People conflate Nurse as the hardest simply because she gets the most results out of reaching her skill cap. However we're just talking about the skill cap of them, not how rewarding they are when you actually get that skilled. Pinhead as you mentioned is definitely a good example of this. He has a very high skill cap but the pay off is trash.
Yeah her reward for reaching the ceiling is by far the best in the game but the actual practise/time required is lower than other killers imo
I didn’t even mention billy and slinger who both also have a higher skill ceiling imo. Slinger requires more precision and map knowledge while billy requires knowledge of every loop to curve effectively
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@Mooks said:
I think when people are talking about Nurses high skill ceiling they are also taking into account the actual power she is bringing with her that for example Pinhead does not. While he may be harder to master he just doesn’t have the same power potential.
Blight on the other hand is an actual contender. High skill floor (though due to being M1-able not as high as Nurse), but definitely very high skill ceiling and high power potential. Still i would say he is more map dependent compared to Nurse..
I’ve always thought of a skill ceiling as the highest level to which a power can be used. Sure pinhead is less powerful than nurse but to get to the highest level with him is much harder imo.
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Old slinger dI’d need changes but basically every change they made was in the wrong direction.
He needed a 28M lullaby imo just to stop MaA being too strong on him. Otherwise he was fine
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The grind has killed my excitement for new chapters personally. Why would I care about 3 mediocre perks that I have to grind for days to get on my other characters?
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And we wonder why the devs don’t listen to us 🤔
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@ThatOneDemoPlayer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2945561#Comment_2945561
Don't get your hopes up, we're talking about the people that thought RPD was a fit Map for DbD
That’s true but it should be an outdoor map which will help at least a bit
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@GoodBoyKaru said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2945561#Comment_2945561
I'm hoping for a patchwork type map where it's a bunch of different places stitched together, and the house is one of them. Also, each place is messed up (like a sideways house or a garage where you run along the roof, or an inverted store where the outside walls are decorated like the inside etc)
That could be cool! I always thought that the eyrie of crows should have went this route instead of just having ink everywhere
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Must be a new map then I’d bet. Let’s hope it’s actually balanced this time though
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Seems better to me
Also leprechaun in the hood obviously
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Nurse from a design perspective is a complete mess. Dbd is designed around pallets and windows for chase. Nurse ignores both of these and was made because those 2 things were too strong back then.
Hell she’s so strong she is the only killer who has to be slower than 110% (which is a balance metric for strong powers) to be “balanced”.
Nurse is an issue that is only going to get worse as time goes on and the game gets more balance changes
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Swear everytime I want to come back something like this happens. No dbd for me
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@Mooks said:
But I still can’t draw. Or have any ability in designing whatsoever. -.-
also.. we all know this Jeff cosmetic should have won last time.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/AN7982QQAHTC/9aa16f21-e862-44cb-ae49-cc3c9f8f10f0.jpeg
https://www.reddit.com/r/deadbydaylight/comments/mcwbsz/cosmetic_contest_submission_jeff_johansen/
We were robbed last year (love the elodie set though). Let’s hope it’s the year for our boy
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Anyone remember the description for that one bucket of candy perks charm?
“A bucket of candy perks. No one seems to have touched the This Is Not Happening Candies”
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Yeah they definitely should. Also killer cosmetics should probably be cheaper since you can’t see them in 90% of the match (besides weapons)
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No clown :(
If not for nurse he could be the best DH user. He can interrupt cleanses and get m1 hits pretty easily. Not to mention the 5% movement stacks with both of his bottles for easy hits
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I don’t generally dodge unless there is 3 default skin free characters on my team. No point playing when I already know the outcome (not that I blame newbies for being bad though)
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2942437#Comment_2942437
tournaments with complete zero restrictions have led to the nurse getting a negative killrate average
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/297338/statistical-evaluation-of-an-interesting-tournament (6 losses, 5 ties, 3 wins, 1.92K average)
Tbf that’s very close to a 2k when both sides are using busted perks/items. I want both sides nerfed here but the discussion is on nurse add ons. For example if DH was nerfed (4 we’re used in most matches) that kill rate would be much higher
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@drsoontm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2942437#Comment_2942437
As SuzuKR said.
Not even the best Nurse can win easily against a good team, especially not without addons. As for a bad match (say, a good Nurse against beginners), it would still take more than "20 seconds", unless they are really really bad and run to the Nurse or DC. But we aren't seriously considering that, are we?
Since it would be foolish to consider games of players with different skill level, we can consider relatively similar level.
A low skill Nurse will most likely lose.
An average Nurse may win or lose depending how much the opponents know the killer's weaknesses (plural). As a survivor I'm in that category and I don't fear Nurses.
An high skill Nurse will be in trouble in all big maps unless she has range add-ons to help a bit (given how slow she is) and will most likely lose to both gen speed and unpredictable survivors. Nurse is very easy to read after all, she literally screams and shows her action with her left hand.
(And god Nurses do not exist, legend, survivorship bias variant, ... I'm fed up explaining that one).
Afaik nurse without add ons is essentially 115% when taking blinks into account. Big maps don’t hurt her as much however due to how she ignores pallets and buildings (especially with 2 floors)
In average lobbies nurse can exploit the 1 or more people who don’t understand her little counterplay much and then proceed to tunnel them easily (DS and BT are negligible to her). Not to mention how basically any solo group will be destroyed if the nurse slugs
A good nurse won’t have much issue with “unpredictable” survivors especially on more open maps like eyrie, blood lodge, ormond etc. She has 2 (potentially 3) blinks so you can use the first to get close and the second to course correct for the hit. Only issue is DH but even I know that perk is busted and needs a nerf just like these add ons
Also if god nurses don’t exist then by your logic god SWF’s don’t exist either correct?
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@drsoontm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2942375#Comment_2942375
Except that Nurse doesn't exist. However it has been shown many times the teams beating even the best Nurse exists.
Any evidence for that? Most tourneys I see have the nurse end with a 2k and that’s without these add ons. Sure you could say survivors have handicaps too but besides DH nurse doesn’t give a ######### about the meta
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Unlikely but not impossible. Far cry 6 recently got the ST license so it’s likely between bhvr and Netflix themselves
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2942170#Comment_2942170
SWFs does just fine against fully stacked addon nurse anyway though, what is your problem?
If you gonna think about best of best nurse, opponent should be also best of best SWFs.
If this is the hypothetical best nurse then the survivor is going down in like 20 seconds max since they can hit every blink. Sure SWF can power through gens but I’d say nurse has a pretty great chance there especially with perks like DH, ruin and starstruck.
Sure best of the best survivors can pump out gens ridiculously fast but they have no options in chase besides holding W until they die (which against range add ons especially is pretty useless).
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2939624#Comment_2939624
Then leave the only killer that has a sliver of a chance against them alone. they deserver each other at high mmr. SWF don't deserve diversity in killers if they want to try hard while running on full easy mode.
Nurse does just fine against SWF’s without them anyway. All they do is make bad nurses have a much easier time since it gets rid of her already little counterplay
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while sadako is weak saying she has “no power” is a bit ridiculous. Anyway I’d rather the devs make a unique but weak killer than “mr mid range anti loop number 673”
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You mean the maps killers can basically guarantee a win on so long as there is a decent 3 gen? Yeah no thanks
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@Leachy_Jr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2939266#Comment_2939266
I get the others but recharge? If anything I'd make double recharge base kit and delete her other stronger add ons.
Not really removing counterplay but since nurse’s power is so strong missing it should come with a big punishment. Recharge essentially removes the nerf they gave her during the same patch
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@Zozzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2939581#Comment_2939581
What's the counterplay for 4 man swf on coms that are dead set on winning against legion?
Irrelevant to the discussion at hand. Anyway balancing playing with friends/comms is a lot harder then some add on changes
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@drsoontm said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2939266#Comment_2939266
Basically the only addons that allow her to compete against good teams?
You mean the only add ons that remove her counterplay? Yes those ones
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2939265#Comment_2939265
Devs also said that killers shouldn´t feel forced to use gen slowdown perks and that those slowdown perks shouldn´t stack.
Yet, the last 4 killers all came with 1 or 2 slowdown perks.
So i´m not really sure where they are going with the statement and their actions.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/VKN8BCTQ0SXK/soon-tm.jpg
That’s fair. They also tried an anti camping measure way back when afaik which didn’t work so I doubt that helps things
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If anything they should nerf range, recharge and triple blink
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@Tsulan said:
Camping has been a intended game mechanic from the very beginning. Nothing changed in that regard.
The only thing that changed, was how efficient survivors became with doing gens. Losing 2 or 3 gens during the first chase isn't uncommon. So the killer feels like he has to camp in order to secure 1 kill.
Just equip BT and go for the rescue or finish the last gens and get out.
Didn’t the devs say recently in a QnA that they dislike camping and are adding measures against it?
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2938402#Comment_2938402
I’d rather Trapper keep the default theme cause he’s the very first killer. I’m think Wraith to cause he was released with trapper but Billy got his own theme so. Trapper should keep the default theme. Wraith and the rest should get new music.
Honestly I think the old theme fits wraith better than trapper although ideally I’d like all killer to get unique ones
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Trapper could use one imo. Using smithing tools as the percussion could be interesting since he is a blacksmith
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@Momentosis said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2937944#Comment_2937944
Deathslinger and Huntress are both ranged so that's why the comparison is there.
This is like two people talking about why not just use a sword over the knife and then you come in shouting "WHY DON'T YOU GUYS JUST USE A GUN?"
Completely missing the point of the comparison.
Obviously there is a comparison to be made but they are distinct pros and cons to both with huntress being the overall better pick. Deathslinger can still get hits at most loops and is much harder to play around at certain tiles. His hitbox is smaller which can be a blessing and curse and he can’t actually run out of ammo mid chase instead just having a short reload.
I definitely agree slinger in worse (in some respects) but they both excel at different things. Huntress is better in the 4v4 and has better slug and snowball pressure while slinger’s 1v1 is better
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I thought that was pretty obvious. Clown is basically all the killer clown and creepy serial killers combined into one. Even gacey went by different names as a clown just like Kenneth with his different personas (mr puddles)
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I found the idea of billy strapping a brick to his chainsaw pretty funny tbh
Also when does clown use “that” add on? Presumably before the trial but then how do the benefits remain?
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@WishIcouldmain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2937931#Comment_2937931
That can change if they deliver the promised Solo Q improvements
All the info in the world won’t stop people mending in TR against a legion
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@squbax said:
Why play slinger when huntress exist tho, just play her, you avoid the bug and play an actual decent killer its a win-win.
In that case why doesn’t everyone just play nurse?
Although if this is the case that needs a fix ASAP
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Sure a Ruin/undying/PR/Starstruck/agaitation/DH nurse sounds totally fair and fun!
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I don’t really like him because he punishes you pretty heavily for your teammates mistakes similarly to a tombstone Myers for example. Just isn’t a fun experience for solo players tbh
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Now you can finally play the game! /s
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It’s a slippery slope because how do we know who needs the extra speed. Not only that but an extra 5% speed isn’t going to help control the map (clown’s antidotes are 10% and absolutely suck for map pressure)
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@RoboMojo said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2937752#Comment_2937752
A lot of people don't read lore though. Might not have generated the same buzz. They should've had lgbt+ rep from the start so them announcing it through Twitter 6 years after the game's release feels a little... insincere maybe? Better late then never I suppose. Still great news regardless.
Yeah it’s great to have. I don’t want to speak for lgbt people here but I feel like finding it out through reading the archive that slowly developes would feel much better than them just saying “yeah he’s gay” basically
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Only issue I have is the tweet tbh. Letting people figure it out through reading the tome would’ve been better imo
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@squbax said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/2936369#Comment_2936369
How is that a guaranteed down, isnt he still an m1 killer therefore easy to dunk on while on chase?
If you 99% the stalk and then expose you should already be fairly close. By that point you’re moving at 125% so it should be easy to catch them
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That’s enough forums for today