PetTheDoggo
PetTheDoggo
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4063832#Comment_4063832
Im fine with that. I don't know why it removed charges anyway.
Mainly because it's useless without it… Just dropping an item is trash effect, they should have put some secondary effect to it.
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You can use apples, or iri addon to gain your power even if survivors don't want to cleanse.
Also you have two options regarding builds to make her more fun. Either use Thana, or something like that, which makes it less optimal for everyone stay injured, or some chase perks, so you don't really care if you are without power (PWYF, or Coup are good options)If you want to tryhard a bit, then proxy camp often forces at least one survivor to cleanse, because they just can't go for unhook injured.
Also double hook a survivor even if you don't want to tunnel them out of the game works well, because most survivors have rule to start cleansing on deadhook. -
@Emeal said:
Currently, the Skull Merchant feels quite monotonous to play as and against.
8 second undetectable whenever you want.
Survivor Movement Slowdown/ Inconvenience by drone placement
Survivor wastes time by hacking.
Failure from survivor side = free injure and broken for
Clawtrapped Survivors free aura reading on radar.
Drop Drone in loop for 5% haste in chase for 8 sec.What kind of definition of monotonous are you going by, because there is soo much you can do in a chase?
I would say main issue is things she can do in theory and reality are very different. Most things she can do are limited and often depends on survivors related to how effective it is.
Even after her changes she is very weak killer, which means long list of things she can do clearly has some flaws to it.
I personally dropped her after her stealth nerf. I simply liked more stealth on deploy for ambush playstyle and I am too lazy to recycle drone for infinite undetectable…
So I hope we get ANY rework for her at this point. -
I personally like endgame chat, sometimes I get very fun conversations there.
But it would make sense to have settings that can just permanently disable it, instead of hiding it. -
@Rokku_Rorru said:
Yeah even though people are downvoting you, I think a visual indicator on the outside of the screen would go a really long way of the hard of hearing.
Actually I think there is that audo visualiser setting? Although I don't think it does directional audio or does it?Issue is everyone will turn it on and this would hard nerf Spirit, if it would be precise.
and if it's vague information, then sure, it will basically tell them Spirit is nearby, so better than nothing. At that point just make it count as lullaby and that would fix the issue. (I am not sure if it doesn't do that already, haven't played against Spirit in a long time) -
@PetTheDoggo said:
My and friend I play with both claimed all twitch drops, but still didn't have them on our account…
I made post about this and people commented way to fix this issue, so you can try
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@Sp00kyb0b said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/465136/please-start-running-ds
DS rarely does anything but extending the tunnling process.
Yes, that's the whole point of DS. So it clearly does something…
You want to extend the process as much as possible so your teammates can try to finish gens before you die.
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I'm tired of playing survivor games and having my team complain about getting tunneled.
Yeah, that's why I run Babysitter, or Shoulder the burden….
I don't really care, if killer tunnels me and doesn't happen often anyway. So I rather help my teammates.
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That would be very broken…
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I don't think DBD is that bad, if both sides are close regarding skill (knowledge).
But yeah, DBD is one of least noob friendly games I know, so of course killers will seem overpowered, when game doesn't tell you in any way how you are supposed to be playing against them…For new players Sadako (best example) will definetly seem broken, but when you know what to do against her, she is actually quite weak killer.
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@TheResidentEvil said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062870#Comment_4062870
that'd be good too! I think DBD mobile had something like that iirc but I didn't play mobile so idk. I know they had a thing where you saw your teammate's perks as you loaded into the match
Yeah, they had both.
It's kinda funny how at some things DBD mobile was more advanced than PC version, I would expect it to be the other way…
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I would prefer they add chat wheel with basic call outs. That way players still have to put some effort into it, but there would be the option for them to do it.
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@Zuiphrode said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061833#Comment_4061833
And what would he even have then? Moving fast is useless if you have nothing else you can do with it. Literally every mobility killer has something.
You could make it so his power is more about getting near survivor for M1.
- reduce fatigue to like 1 second
- remove losing tokens on pallet break
- increase range
They won't do anything like this, but it's possible.
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@sentience said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062528#Comment_4062528
"ghoul haters never cease to amaze me"
It seems you are good at dodging questions. Let me rephase it for you.
You can’t make a balance argument around completely perfect conditions that are set up entirely in the killer’s favor. And by “perfect” I mean literally perfect, a situation where everything is already arranged for you to die. Same exact logic as the example I gave: if you’re fully trapped inside shack with the killer right on top of you, obviously you’re not doing anything there either. So what, does that mean Trapper needs a nerf?
And just so you know, Wesker and Xenomorph also kill you in that exact kind of setup if you throw the pallet in their face.
Also please stop turning this into some “us vs them” thing. I never said ghoul’s vault is fine and should stay as it is. I personally think it should be changed or reworked too. My previous reply was only pointing out that your argument about his vault doesn’t really make sense in the context of balance.
My issue is with his kit, he shouldn't have even an option to be in situation where his power is guaranteed down. Yet alone when it's supposed to be one of most save loops…
I don't know about you, but standing on other side of god pallet is not perfect condition to be in for most killers.
Also Wesker wouldn't down me there, because his vault is slower and doesn't hinder survivors.
Sure, get Ghoul vault on power level of Wesker and I have no issue with it. But right not it's way stronger, which doesn't make sense for killer with free injury and counter to hold W. -
@sentience said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062474#Comment_4062474
Out of all situations, you have chosen the perfect one that favors ghoul in every aspect.
1. Ghoul is close to you
2. There are no other fillers near
3. He is enraged
4. The ability isn't on cooldown
I mean, well, trapper can trap the pallet and you won't be able to do anything with it. I guess we should nerf him too?Lol, Ghoul defenders never cease to amaze me :D
You really want to compare Trapper with Ghoul?Sure Ghoul vault can stay, if he needs to walk around the map and pick up tokens for his power….
Also how exactly are we going to disarm the Ghoul next to a pallet? I have not heard about this tech. -
@top500spiderman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062472#Comment_4062472
If the mechanic beats you without the killer doing anything, that’s called a self inflicted outplay.
Well, so revault can stay :)
You wouldn't want to be beaten by mechanic… -
@top500spiderman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062461#Comment_4062461
You realize there would be no fatigue? I DIDN'T USE POWER YET
So doing it later does nothing, outcome is vault for free down :)
He was sitting behind the pallets hitbox in his power. you could have just ran around and vaulted. You dropped it way to early.
I can't learn something that doesn't work..
It works its just a skill issue, me and many other have no issues countering ghoul.
Well, I will just wait for next game… That worked so far well for me, Ghouls are not happy about it
DC’ing because you can’t counter a basic mechanic right after posting a clip that shows the misplay is wild 😭. The killer didn’t even need to outplay you, the mechanic already did.
The killer didn’t even need to outplay you, the mechanic already did.
That's exactly my issue, I am happy you finally understand :)
Player (Ghoul) doesn't need to do anything for it… -
@top500spiderman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062428#Comment_4062428
I know you are beginning in dbd, but when Ghoul walks to a pallet, he has secret "tech" of vaulting with his first dash. Which he can easily cancel, or M1 however he likes
Which you can easily counter aswell 😂
Well, I don't know how to play against Ghoul, but at least I am able to watch a short clip correctly :D
At least you admitted it thats step 1. Step 2 is being willing to learn something outside of shift + S
Oh, right. That's why I wasted my time in custom trying his limits.
You went in customs to give yourself a excuse to why you cant counter him
Would be nice if there was a valid counterplay, but there is none…
Il just copy and paste the help i gave you.
if Ghoul pulls his power at a pallet, you keep running or double back for a pallet stun. Ghoul can’t grab on reaction unless you drop the pallet too early like you did in the clip.
In order for Ghoul to grab you, he can’t get stunned by the pallet. So he either has to commit and assume you won’t drop it, or use his power outside of the pallet’s stun radius. That’s the entire reason he has to guess — it’s not on reaction.
Nobody just sits at a pallet across from Ghoul like you did in the video
I already explained the counterplay. I can’t make you learn it — you have to want to. But I wouldn’t wait around for a nerf just because you don’t feel like figuring it out. 😂
That clip is like uploading a clip of you trying to loop a knight minion to prove he cant be countered lmao.
Ghoul can’t grab on reaction unless you drop the pallet too early like you did in the clip.
You realize there would be no fatigue? I DIDN'T USE POWER YET
So doing it later does nothing, outcome is vault for free down :)I can’t make you learn it — you have to want to.
I can't learn something that doesn't work.. This can be used on shorter loops, definetly not the one in clip. You can't greed such long loop, that's like trying to greed shack pallet: you die
But I wouldn’t wait around for a nerf just because you don’t feel like figuring it out.
Well, I will just wait for next game… That worked so far well for me, Ghouls are not happy about it, so I guess that means counterplay of "go next" works very well
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@top500spiderman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062298#Comment_4062298
I actually went into full depth explaining why your clip makes no sense and shows none of the counterplay against Ghoul. But you ignored it, because you can’t counter something you don’t understand — or didn’t even know existed.
Especially when it seems like you don’t even care if you can counter it. Your clip made it pretty clear you just want to pre-drop pallets and feel untouchable while you run away in a straight line like a lot of survivors do. 😂
Before you even learn how to counter Ghoul, you should probably learn how he actually works. Learn his different techs. You really posted a clip of yourself standing on the opposite side of a pallet from a Ghoul while he’s in his power… just to prove you don’t know how to time a pallet drop against him.
At this point there’s not much left to say. You pretty much proved it yourself that it was a skill issue.
I actually went into full depth explaining why your clip makes no sense and shows none of the counterplay against Ghoul.
Oh, yeah the infamous cancelfake… Mythical tech of ghoul
You really posted a clip of yourself standing on the opposite side of a pallet from a Ghoul while he’s in his power…
I know you are beginning in dbd, but when Ghoul walks to a pallet, he has secret "tech" of vaulting with his first dash. Which he can easily cancel, or M1 however he likes. I know, very advanced, but you can get there.
Which means on long loops, it doesn't matter what you do, if he doesn't miss play, you are dead :)You pretty much proved it yourself that it was a skill issue.
Well, I don't know how to play against Ghoul, but at least I am able to watch a short clip correctly :D
Especially when it seems like you don’t even care if you can counter it.
Oh, right. That's why I wasted my time in custom trying his limits. That makes sense.
Would be nice if there was a valid counterplay, but there is none… -
@Chilli_man2400 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062281#Comment_4062281
like I said I’m not saying they were perfect but every YT which I can’t name threw huge tantrums and said killer and dbd will die and BHVR has killed dbd
All they had to do was just make it so if you kill a survivor before 4 hooks the other 3 gain a 25% repair speed bonus. You can still kick and block gens but since you tunneled early your punished and the bonuses would be disabled
Bam perfect with some minor improvements
But nope all the “people better than BHVR” grifted and made so many clickbait grrr BHVR bad BHVR no good videos all from the whiny killer mains who are Stuck in 2017
if you kill a survivor before 4 hooks the other 3 gain a 25% repair speed bonus
This would be perfectly fine, but changes on PTB were way more than this…
What you suggested is something completely different to what BHVR tried to implement. -
Operation health was supposed to focus on bug fixes in first place, not trying to create massive balancing features that need to be reverted.
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It would be good enough, if it didn't eat regression charges like crazy…
It's not good enough to use on it's own, but it's good in combination with other kicking perks like Nowhere to hide.
Buffed pop will also make it better, where you have chance survivors will not let go and reveal aura for you, so you can then go there and pop the gen (if you wait a bit, then also apply eruption to it again). -
What is your reason?
I hate myself and this is my punishment.
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@top500spiderman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062290#Comment_4062290
It definetly seems like you are, or just didn't pay attention to patch notes. Nothing wrong with that.
😂 I think it’s pretty obvious who’s new, going by the clip you sent. Not to mention how you just segmented a piece of my explanation showing why the clip you presented makes zero sense in the context of what you’re trying to argue.
At this point, it’s hard to take what you’re saying seriously anymore. Nobody with any consequence of the game is going to watch that clip and see a balance issue, they’re just going to see a clear lack of in-game knowledge.
Ah, not going back to you talking about the clip with completely wrong assumption. "Issue is you drop early", lol
Not really early when killer can M1 you :DThen trying to came up with new tech of cancelfake, noone else ever talked about, just to try make your comments legit.
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@top500spiderman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062242#Comment_4062242
Lol, if Ghoul pulls his power at a pallet, you keep running or double back for a pallet stun. Ghoul can’t grab on reaction unless you drop the pallet too early like you did in the clip.
In order for Ghoul to grab you, he can’t get stunned by the pallet. So he either has to commit and assume you won’t drop it, or use his power outside of the pallet’s stun radius. That’s the entire reason he has to guess — it’s not on reaction.
Nobody just sits at a pallet across from Ghoul like you did in the video unless he leaped. And even then, you just time his animation. If he’s in leap like in the clip, you just run away. You’ll gain distance because of his movement penalty. Or you can double back and pallet stun him.
All the clip you posted really showed is that you don’t understand the basic fundamentals of looping or Ghoul’s mechanics.
You just proved it to truly be a skill issue.
Are you new to DBD, so you don't know how devs use data (kill rates)? That would explain things
You do realize there’s data the devs have that they haven’t shared with us, right? People have been asking for that information for years.
They don’t balance killers based only on public data. Did you actually think that’s all they look at?
If that were the case, Nurse would have been buffed.
And you’re asking me if I’m new?
Nobody just sits at a pallet across from Ghoul like you did in the video unless he leaped
Yeah, I think I know where is the issue. You failed to notice I didn't leap there… I just pulled my power when we got to the pallet.
Sure, it works if Ghoul dashed to you, because he will enter cooldown, but you are completely wrong on this one. You could see I have all tokens ready.Also in situation, where he did dash there, it's better to just drop pallet anyway as soon you see he canceled the power. Why would I greed to be forced into 50/50 later when he will have power ready?
You do realize there’s data the devs have that they haven’t shared with us, right?
Ok, what data could that be? Based on what data can you actually estimate power level of the killer?
Players do it basically on personal experience, how would you do it if you only have access to outcomes of matches?We have seen them talk about kill rates so many times related to their balancing, but now they definetly started to use something else… Source: "trust me bro"
And you’re asking me if I’m new?
It definetly seems like you are, or just didn't pay attention to patch notes. Nothing wrong with that.
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@top500spiderman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062082#Comment_4062082
Yeah, no.. I went to custom and tried it again. The moment I pulled my power after that cancel, I could as well M1. I have no idea what you are on about with cancel fake…
Now you are just making things up. But hey, feel free to create a clip showing what you mean.
Lol, no you couldn’t. You have to completely leave your power to M1. Pretending like you don’t know what a Ghoul cancel fake is after doing it in the video means one of two things:
Either you really don’t play Ghoul at all, or you’re pretending you don’t to maintain a broken point. (Which won’t be taken seriously as feedback anyway, so it’s pointless.)
I don’t need to make a clip. You cancel-faked in the video, then turned around and said you don’t know what that means. That alone is enough proof that you don’t even understand how Ghoul works — which also explains why you don’t know how to counter him.
Lol and based on what you think they are doing it? Spoiler alert: it's just kill rates
The devs have all the data. public Kill rates aren’t the only thing they use to judge how a killer is performing. If that were the case, Nurse would be getting buffed.
She was definetly never in top 3 highest kill rates, which does not reflect her power level….
Nurse’s kill rate is high among top players, just like Blight. Can we see that exact data? No. You could argue that I’m assuming, but we all know Nurse is one of the strongest killers in the game, if not the strongest.
If the devs judged killers purely off public kill rates, then why have they never said Nurse was a mid-tier killer across all MMR brackets like they said about ghoul?
That alone suggests they look at more than just raw kill-rate statistics when evaluating how strong a killer actually is.
Lol, no you couldn’t.
Yeah, I just went to custom and tried it. At point I pull up power after cancel, I can as well M1. Just don't be lazy and go into custom and try it.
If you actually watch the video, you can see the icon + "Charge Kagune Leap" after the cancel. At that point I can also M1…So just making things up so your counterplay seems legit, or what?
If that were the case, Nurse would be getting buffed.
They are not that oblivious, but killers who were not really that strong got nerfed because of their kill rates. Simply because their power was noob stompy… Sadako is good example
Also very weak killers are often not buffed, because their kill rate are good enough for devs → Trapper.
Devs actually said, he is in a good spot with his kill rate. Otz was not amused.Are you new to DBD, so you don't know how devs use data (kill rates)? That would explain things…
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@top500spiderman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4062012#Comment_4062012
No, the only reason you were able to bring it back up that quickly was because you did a cancel fake. If you had actually canceled the power fully, there would’ve been a delay before you could bring it back.
You anticipated the fake working because you knew he would drop the pallet for the clip. If he had read the animation correctly, he would’ve just dropped the pallet and you wouldn’t have had enough time to grab and close any meaningful distance.
Between that and the many ways survivors can mind game Ghoul at pallets, this really just comes down to a skill issue.
Also, the devs never said their evaluation was based purely on kill rates. They said he performs as a mid-tier killer across all brackets.
And Nurse absolutely does have a high kill rate in high MMR.
No, the only reason you were able to bring it back up that quickly was because you did a cancel fake.
Yeah, no.. I went to custom and tried it again. The moment I pulled my power after that cancel, I could as well M1. I have no idea what you are on about with cancel fake…
Now you are just making things up. But hey, feel free to create a clip showing what you mean.
And Nurse absolutely does have a high kill rate in high MMR.
She was definetly never in top 3 highest kill rates, which does not reflect her power level….
Also, the devs never said their evaluation was based purely on kill rates. They said he performs as a mid-tier killer across all brackets.
Lol and based on what you think they are doing it? Spoiler alert: it's just kill rates
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@top500spiderman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061997#Comment_4061997
Lol, there are a lot of things wrong with that clip.
- You dropped the pallet way too early — the timing was completely off.
- Ghoul was standing with plenty of distance from the pallet while in his power. In that position you had a few options, you could’ve double-backed for a pallet stun, or simply wrapped the loop and vaulted.
Ghoul suffers a movement speed penalty while he’s in his power. That’s the entire reason he has to guess when you’re going to drop the pallet.
If he pulls out his power, he slows himself down. That means if he fakes it and commits to the chase, you can easily double-back and pallet stun him.
And if he guesses wrong on the drop timing, you just keep your distance and continue the loop.
The interaction only works in his favor if the survivor misplays the timing.
That’s why a lot of Ghouls get pallet stunned while in their power. If they sit back waiting for the drop like you did in the clip and the survivor doesn’t commit, the survivor gains distance.
You can mindgame a Ghoul heavily because his mechanics are very straightforward.
Who exactly is more hated than Ghoul? He is definetly in top 3
The devs themselves said ghoul is mid teir in all brackets of mmr.
You dropped the pallet way too early — the timing was completely off.
That doesn't make any sense. If you drop it later, then I will have my power ready even easier… Ghoul can pull power on reaction against pallet drops.
You seem to think of him as huntress, but his wind up, cancel are way faster and he moves faster.Yeah, you list all mental gymnastic about what you should do against him as survivor. Well, it doesn't feel right to me with how little he needs to do in comparison.
Your way of dealing with him is not reliable, because it's 50/50 at best and I would say Ghoul needs to suck for it to work, but hey you do you.
I will stick to counterplay of not dealing with him and just go next…The devs themselves said ghoul is mid teir in all brackets of mmr.
I didn't ask about his kill rates. Players know for years kill rates don't mean much.
Skully was I think in 9th place even after she was nuked into Z tier. Nurse was never even close to being highest kill rate killer.
Kill rates simply don't reflect how strong the killer really is.Who is more hated than Ghoul right now? There are other candidates, but none of them have high pick rates unlike Ghoul.
Well designed killers don't see DC every other game… -
@top500spiderman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061817#Comment_4061817
The devs have said ghoul is mid in all brackets of mmr.
But he can do it faster than you can react and drop the pallet, so outcome is exactly same as if you would just drop it in front of him.
He can’t. What’s happening there is you’re getting mind-gamed.
There’s only a short window where he can pull his power back up for a fake, and there’s a clear animation difference when he actually cancels it fully.
Once you understand that distinction, it’s reactable.
And in a lot of mid-sized or smaller loops, you don’t even have to greed the pallet. If he pulls out his power, the slowdown alone can give you enough time to wrap the loop again and maintain distance.
So the interaction isn’t unavoidable — it’s just about recognizing the animation and playing the loop correctly.
My conclusion is he needs changes. I have no issue with buffing some of his other aspects.
I can respect that take. My main issue is with players who push for nerfs or buffs based purely on emotion while refusing to adapt to the mechanics they’re dealing with.
That said, I still disagree that he actually needs changes.
If there were real proof that Ghoul’s kit is somehow toxic from a design standpoint — not overpowered, but genuinely unhealthy for the game — then I wouldn’t have a problem with adjustments. But those changes would need to preserve his current strength and difficulty.
In other words, keep the same level of effectiveness and skill requirement, just expressed in a different way.
The problem is that doing something like that isn’t easy. Reworking a kit without altering its overall strength or skill curve is extremely difficult to get right. Also ghoul with his current kit is a extremely fun killer to play.
https://youtu.be/GG89BNOvWgAHe can’t. What’s happening there is you’re getting mind-gamed.
I canceled my power, she dropped the pallet on reaction when animation showed it (I was watching on stream to make sure my power is not bugged again), I just can pull it immediately back up to vault. No mindgame there…
You can't win this unless Ghoul for some reason tries to swing under pallet instead, but there is no need for that. Only reason why Ghoul would do that is he doesn't know how quickly he can pull his power back up…So sure, let's give him cooldown on his power when he cancels, make him lose 1 token. That would fix it and I would agree that becomes a counterplay,. but this just doesn't work right now.
If there were real proof that Ghoul’s kit is somehow toxic from a design standpoint
Who exactly is more hated than Ghoul? He is definetly in top 3. That wouldn't happen if his design was good.
Being hated is not reason for direct nerf, but it's a reason for changes in my opinion. He is becoming next Skully and as we could see with her, there is no coming back from that.I would like to play Ghoul, because his techs and mobility are really fun, but I don't want to deal with DC/give up every other game. So change him so he is at least bearable to play against…
In other words, keep the same level of effectiveness and skill requirement, just expressed in a different way.
The point is to incease skill requirement, because skill floor is very low for Ghoul right now…
I fully believe his vault is main issue, because it screws whole premise of free injuiry with having difficult time to down survivors like Legion. -
@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061919#Comment_4061919
It doesn't matter, devs have decided already and fixed it for ghoul it should also be fixed for the others.
Or if bugs become features i guess we should bring back blight hug tech too?
i guess we should bring back blight hug tech too
Sure, but I would prefer Dracula hugtech
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061892#Comment_4061892
Its literally part of the definition of their power, and in the case of wesker he is literally designed to automatically hit a survivor if they are close to the vault. That is the design of his power. Its a bug/oversight that it doesn't work if the survivor positions themself a certain way and then completely counters the power.
he is literally designed to automatically hit a survivor if they are close to the vault
So? I would do that too in design, just so it's not easy to do. But it should be possible with correct timing… Skill check
Its literally part of the definition of their power
Not the primary use of their power. It's an alternative ending of their power, which makes sense. It would suck to be stuck on one side of the god pallet while survivor is making distance.
Its a bug/oversight that it doesn't work if the survivor positions themself a certain way and then completely counters the power.
So? Look at Knight, bugs can clearly become a feature…
Like sure, remove revault, but then also make the animation slower and don't hinder survivors in case of Kaneki. His vault is simply too effective, while revault is the only thing you could do against it in safe loops.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061820#Comment_4061820
I think it should be removed for the others as well. It is literally a function of their power, it should not be able to be countered that way.
For none of them it's the primary use of their power.
Legion needs so he has chance to chain hits. For Wesker and Ghoul, I would say it's so their power feels better and they just won't get stuck on the pallet all the time, also so they won't be in situation where they have to cancel power, wait fatigue and then vault. It's just alternative to end your power.Even if survivors can revault as they should in my opinion, it means they have to stay close to the pallet for this and are not gaining distance if you break it.
It should be there just so power feels better to use and positioning, not to get you free downs.
Power level of Wesker vault is good, survivor needs to fell for your mindgame, otherwise it's unlikely to get your down. Ghoul's vault is way better than it should be.Wesker wouldn't be one of most popular killers in DBD, if he would regularly be downing survivors with his vault, because it's cheap and survivors hate it…
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@random1543 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061719#Comment_4061719
Be careful what you wish for, I thought the community was against balancing things purely based on stats that's how we get stuff like onryo nerfed.
People are for/against it based on how it fits their narrative.
So hey Ghoul has normal kill rate, but so does Nurse…He is still obnoxious, so that at least warrant changes, it doesn't have to be strict nerf.
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4059361#Comment_4059361
The other way around also has no counterplay. If you can just revault the pallet then vaulting the pallet becomes useless. At least with this at shorter loops survivors have time to get around to the pallet on the other side, similar as they would say wesker.
It was always free revault for Legion. It still works and is easier to do against Wesker.
Yet it's no issue for those, but somehow it is for Kaneki… -
@top500spiderman said:
I’m struggling to believe your results reflect what you’re describing.
From the outside, it feels like the conclusion, “Ghoul needs nerfs”, is already decided, and the argument is being built around that.
I’ve gone into customs to test this. Multiple people in my Discord server have as well. When Ghoul cancels his power and uses it again, the animation clearly plays. There is a visible distinction between faking the power and actually leaving it.
And yes, you can react to it, unless the animations are bugged.
The only example being cited is this so-called “Armint” tech reported by a YouTuber. But no one I’ve tested with has been able to replicate it following the instructions provided.
That raises questions.
If it were a consistent, reliable mechanic, it should be reproducible in customs. The fact that it isn’t suggests either:
- It’s extremely inconsistent,
- or It’s ping-related
The idea of a “new tech” being amplified without consistent proof starts to look less like a balance issue and more like momentum-building, possibly creating fatigue around the killer so that a rework becomes more appealing.
A developer has already stated that the data shows Ghoul is a mid-tier killer.
If the counterplay were truly bugged or unreliable the way it’s being described, Ghoul would not be performing at mid-tier levels. He would be overperforming significantly. And the gameplay videos I posted, which show his counterplay working as intended, wouldn’t have played out that way.
So either:
- The mechanic is consistent and reactable (as testing suggests),
- Or it’s an extremely rare edge case being treated as a core balance issue.
If it’s the latter, that’s not justification for nerfs.
My conclusion is he needs changes. I have no issue with buffing some of his other aspects.
When Ghoul cancels his power and uses it again, the animation clearly plays
You can usually see it, unless it gets bugged... But he can do it faster than you can react and drop the pallet, so outcome is exactly same as if you would just drop it in front of him.
So basically only chance you have is predrop before he gets in LoS…
data shows Ghoul is a mid-tier killer.
So is Nurse, just saying…
He is not overperforming, so I can agree he doesn't need direct nerf, but he does need changes. The longer you wait, worse it gets. You might end with Skully situation, where even if they nuke him, survivors will still hate him…
I think Ghoul has potencial to be fun killer for both sides, but right now he is only fun to play. As to play against, I would say his is definetly in top 3 hated killers.
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I don't think he needs full rework, I kinda like his unique playstyle.
If they want him to just become better, there are several options in his addons that could just become basekit…
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@top500spiderman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061316#Comment_4061316
There is no “workaround” for Ghoul against his counters. He can only mindgame around them.
If you actually understand how Ghoul works, you’d know his pallet vault is only effective when you grab someone who is right next to the pallet. Trying to grab on reaction is pointless — by the time you pull out your power, they’ll already have too much distance. It has to be predicted.
That’s not broken mechanics. That’s a read.
It doesn’t matter whether the clips were cherry-picked or not. The videos showed simple, repeatable counterplay that directly worked against Ghoul’s core mechanics.
You still haven’t shown proof of a Ghoul consistently bypassing his counterplay without relying on mindgames.
If the only way he secures downs through his supposed “counters” is by out-predicting the survivor, then that’s not an imbalance — that’s normal killer gameplay.
So unless there’s evidence of Ghoul reliably ignoring or invalidating his own counterplay without reads or prediction, the argument that he’s oppressive just doesn’t hold up.
Not really, you don't need to be 0.1% for that. I am pretty sure to learn how to outplay shack with Ghoul without bamboozle in like 20 minutes, because I am used to that movement from Blight.
Sure, doing that on short tiles can be impressive, but on longer tiles it's not that difficult.
It’s extremely difficult to pull off because it requires near-perfect precision and very fast reaction time. If you don’t execute it cleanly, you waste time and lose pressure immediately. That’s exactly why it’s impressive when it works.
Only something like 0.1% of Ghoul players can do it in a somewhat reliable way.
At Shack it’s not that hard — but that’s the point. It’s extremely loop-dependent. Shack is probably the easiest loop in the game for Ghoul to block effectively because of the structure and spacing.
Outside of very specific loops like Shack, consistently body-blocking with leaps requires:
- Perfect spacing
- Perfect timing
- Immediate reaction
- And a survivor who doesn’t pre-adjust
If any of those conditions aren’t met, it falls apart.
That’s not an oppressive, universal mechanic. That’s a high-execution, situational play that only works in certain layouts and at very high skill levels.
I never called him broken. I called him obnoxious.
I simply don't like there effectivness of Ghoul compared to difficulty of achieving that result. It's just too easy in my opinion and skillfull plays are not required for him.
Hes a m1 killer he definitely needs skill. You would only think that if you dont know how to counter him. Which is a skill issue.
Yeah, I went to custom with my friend to test your counterplay and it's just bunch of cope that works on Ghouls who have no idea what they are doing.
- you can't medium vault a window, or vault a pallet faster than Ghoul cancels the power and grab you
- ghoul can cancel and prepare his power faster than you can react to it, drop pallet and run (so it's always down on safe loops)
Funny thing during our testing, I got bugged three times where my tentacles didn't display I have my power ready…
So whole "greed" based on animation simply doesn't work with how fast he does things and often there is no animation in first place.
Also if you are not standing directly in the middle of dropped pallet/window, I can just lunch directly on you and prompt steal.So yeah, your whole counterplay works, if Ghoul has a skill issue. Not really viable in my opinion.
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@cogsturning said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061638#Comment_4061638
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061641#Comment_4061641
Genuinely curious, are you enjoying playing while feeling like you're obligated to bring certain perks? Like, is that fun?
If you want to win, you play what's optimal for that. That works for any game…
In DBD perks are "fixes", you are supposed to use perks that will help with your weakness, or fight something you don't like.It's up to you what you consider fun. I don't need perks to have fun in the game, but I know situations I want to avoid that will make it "unfun" for me and so I use perks to prevent those.
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Results vs Difficulty do not match with Ghoul at all…
He has easiest injury in DBD, best vault in DBD, one of best mobility powers, mending for slowdownI personally hate his vault so much. When I play duo, we usually write in lobby Ghoul is go next.
I don't mind strong killers, Billy and The First are my favorite killers to play against, but I need to have respect for the effort killer put into the game. I just have none for Ghoul… Why should I try, when Ghoul doesn't need to try?
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@ImWinston said:
- Yes guys, what OP says is true, but seriously, how many times can this happen in the life of a killer player? It requires an organized SWF, with communication, and EVERYONE on the team must have a gen-rush build. (There are some speed record attempts on YouTube.) But in comparison, how much more effective and frequent (and easier because it doesn't require any organization) is tunneling on 4-5 gen? We can safely say that the ratio is easily 100 to 1.🤣
Edit: It's like when you stack We'll make it + boon "circle of healing" + Orela perk with 2 stacks + 4 stacks of Desperate Measures... a full heal takes about 4 seconds.... but objectively, apart from funny videos on Youtube, how many times can this happen in the "real life" of a DBD player?🤣
If I bring 0 slowdown perks, then games that will end around 4-5 minutes will be way more likely. So that's why at least 1 slowdown perk is kinda mandatory unless you play Blight/Nurse. If you don't do that, you are not trying to win…
Exactly same for survivors. Complain about tunneling, but don't do anything against it. They don't even play around it and unhook while killer is still nearby.
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I consider myself a killer main and I would say it depends on situation…
Killer can feel easy overall simply because of matchmaking, but as soon you get group of decent survivors it can turn from easy to difficult or even impossible based on your killer/perks/addons/map.
But I can also bring best killer, addons, perks and go for tunnel whenever I can. At that point I need to basically get near comp level team, soloQ have almost no chance.
I can also play Ghostface with 0 slowdown and suddenly one bad chase means I lost the game…You can make both sides easy, or difficult.
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@Mandy said:
what would you suggest? If kill rates and dc rates are average - where do you suggest we look data wise to see where there's a problem? We do know a few bugs with the character also contribute to a few issues, such as the animation problem.
Nerf part which makes him frustrating to go against and buff other aspects of his kit.
Ghoul has options for skill expression, but currently it's not needed.I personally despise how strong his vault is, it's way above Weskers. We have seen exactly same thing with Chucky and Krasue. Strong vaults that regularly lead to downs are highly disliked, because it's just easy to do and not much to do against it, especially on safe loops.
If he somehow becomes too weak for that, you can buff back his range to improve his mobility more. It would also become slightly easier for bodyblocks, because you are less likely to get out of reach…
That's more work, but I liked the bug where he could continue with his leaps after vault. So you could change his vault to something like Legion vault, where lethality just from vault is low when revault is free, but he would have option to continue with his power and use that to get near survivor / bodyblock.
So survivor can try to stay close to the pallet for revault, but if they try to get distance, then Ghoul can easily catch up. -
@top500spiderman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061175#Comment_4061175
Those two videos I posted show how most Ghoul players actually play.
The montage you showed was one of the best Ghoul players in the world going for clips, not playing normally, not playing for consistent wins. I even linked his stream where he literally says he’s just going for clips because winning consistently is hard right now.
That alone disproves the idea that body-blocking with leaps is some reliable, standard tech Ghoul players use in normal matches.
If that mechanic were truly oppressive and consistent, the best Ghoul players in the world would be using it regularly when they’re actually trying to win. They don’t.
Instead, you’re ignoring the two gameplay videos I posted because they directly show Ghoul being countered with the exact tips I explained. Those weren’t highlight montages, they were normal matches showing practical counterplay.
All that’s been presented against that is a 0.1% highlight montage of body-blocking clips. That doesn’t prove consistency. It proves it can happen in ideal circumstances.
Right now the argument boils down to complaints and exaggerated claims rather than evidence. If Ghoul were truly broken, there would be consistent gameplay showing unavoidable pressure, not isolated montage moments.
If the best players can’t reliably use leap body-blocking to win consistently, then it’s not a realistic balance concern for the average match.
Instead, you’re ignoring the two gameplay videos I posted because they directly show Ghoul being countered with the exact tips I explained.
The guy didn't know how to play LT wall… Counterplay is not valid, if it works only against players who have no idea what they are doing.
That's why I want to test it myself in custom, to see if it works when killer know what you are trying to do.
For example greeding doesn't work, if Ghoul is able to just pull his power on reaction of you dropping a pallet/fast vault.
It doesn't work, if he is able to cancel and swing, before you can medium vault.
etcThose weren’t highlight montages, they were normal matches showing practical counterplay.
No, they were cherry picked gameplay, where they get somewhat decent chase.
All that’s been presented against that is a 0.1% highlight montage of body-blocking clips. That doesn’t prove consistency.
Not really, you don't need to be 0.1% for that. I am pretty sure to learn how to outplay shack with Ghoul without bamboozle in like 20 minutes, because I am used to that movement from Blight.
Sure, doing that on short tiles can be impressive, but on longer tiles it's not that difficult.If Ghoul were truly broken, there would be consistent gameplay showing unavoidable pressure, not isolated montage moments.
I never called him broken. I called him obnoxious.
I simply don't like there effectivness of Ghoul compared to difficulty of achieving that result. It's just too easy in my opinion and skillfull plays are not required for him. -
@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061151#Comment_4061151
My question is, why Legion vault is fine to have free revault, but Kaneki needs to have vault better than Wesker?
They are different killers with different strengths I guess. Wesker can down/ injure with his power relatively easy+ good mobility + passive infection, legion can easily injure the whole team + down with his 4th hit and kaneki can easily injure one + catch up. The vault is not that useful in most cases, but gives a little bit more playroom to all of them.
Since kaneki released I said they should nerf his auto-aim free injury and make it more of a skill shot. With that he should be mostly fine and I‘m glad they make the hitbox less forgiving with the next patch. Now they only need to make the time he has for initiating another leap shorter so he doesn‘t just follow people around loops with his power up. The main problem of kaneki always was that he didn‘t require too much skill to be effective and that he needs to be able to mess up more. I‘m kinda hoping they reduce the minimum required leap distance to 3m from 5m, so you can use his power in a more skillful way around loops with more potential to mess up.
Thing is his injury will never be skill shot, because it's hit scan. It's not like Deathslinger where you need to lead your shorts based on distance etc. you just have to aim at the survivor and click.
Reducing aim assist is buff for PC players at least, because they will have easier time to dash in front of survivors to bodyblock them.If vault is not useful as much, then just get rid of it. Match Legion's vault, so you can still use Bamboozle, but at least he won't ignore god pallets anymore.
If he is somehow too weak for that, buff back his range, that would help weaker Ghouls. -
@top500spiderman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061133#Comment_4061133
You just proved my point with this entire post i guess you didnt see this in my earlier post
As far as him body blocking not only is that extremely hard to pull off and isnt realistic. kaneki players quite literally make montages of the tech on youtube its essentially going for clips.
That video you just posted, is one of the best ghoul players in the world and this was literally the title of his stream 12 days ago
https://www.twitch.tv/videos/2700738455
Hes one of the best if not the best ghoul mechanically, and even he doesnt block loops consistantly in games. Its quite literally the reason he makes montages of it, because of how hard it is and how your average ghoul cant do it. Which is why they get so many views.
If you watch some of the best ghoul players they dont rely on that tech and most of the time there going for clips. Because everytime they mess up its just a waste of time. He does it for content.
And were talking about the best ghoul players in the world. Your average ghoul player isnt doing any of these things in loops.
I doubt you even play ghouls who do this consistently or even play him. Given this post.
I doubt you even play ghouls who do this consistently or even play him. Given this post.
No, I have rule to not use what I don't want to play against. I just stomped survivors to get his achievements and was done with it.
I would want to play him, because I am kind of person to learn all possible killer techs and his techs look very fun, but he is just too obnoxious currently.
Sorry, but especially on large loops like Shack, his bodyblocks are just not difficult (at least on PC). Any decent Blight player will be able to get that, because it's just about fast camera turning.But why would Ghouls learn this, when they can just vault and get same result…
From your videos, two Ghouls clearly had no idea what they are doing, so I will ignore that.
I will try "greed window" and "greed pallet" which was in one of those, but I am pretty sure you can't medium vault faster than he can cancel and swing, but I am willing to try at least. (I wonder if Ghoul can just prompt steal against that) -
@Langweilig said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061131#Comment_4061131
All I‘m saying is there wouldn‘t be an auto injure if it wasn‘t intended. It‘s also not intended for Wesker, but on the flip side for legion it is as he is the only one who doesn‘t have the auto injure.
Making it guaranteed down for safe loops is really not better.
That‘s the Point of the vault. It only really works at strong/god loops and is total ######### at small/middle long loops. There it’s totally fine that he downs you and the vaulting back thing is dumb as he can‘t even swing while you vault back.
There were so many wrong things "intended" in DBD history… It doesn't mean it makes sense.
he can‘t even swing while you vault back.
If you are fast enough, you can grab injured survivors.
My question is, why Legion vault is fine to have free revault, but Kaneki needs to have vault better than Wesker?
Kaneki is similar to Legion on concept of free injury, so it would make sense to have about the same vault as Legion does, not best in the game… -
@top500spiderman said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/4061098#Comment_4061098
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/2-kyUGhVnTs?feature=share
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/0vc98x2kWKY?feature=share
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/wEzOlZ9OfKA?feature=share
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/Mzta0vI86rY?feature=share
Nothing being done in these videos is professional-level gameplay. These players are simply exercising his counters and being rewarded for it.
They aren’t running in a straight line and pre dropping every pallet the moment the killer gets close. They’re not burning every resource instantly and then complaining when they get punished later. These are the kinds of players you don’t see on the forums asking for Ghoul nerfs.
It’s 2026. At some point players need to stop masking “I’m not winning” with “this is unfun.” Asking the devs to reduce the speed of his pallet vault because it’s “unfun” just sounds like an excuse to avoid being punished for lazy looping.
Let’s be honest, most Ghoul players rely heavily on his pallet vault to secure downs. And survivors want that nerfed because they know that’s the most realistic way he’ll down them. It’s counterable, but it requires discipline and timing.
Meanwhile, people bring up body-blocking with leaps and his hitbox like it’s some consistent oppressive strategy, when maybe 0.1% of Ghouls can pull that off reliably, and even then it’s extremely loop-dependent.
If his pallet vault gets nerfed again, what is he left with? A mediocre M1 killer that nobody wants to play?
The devs should ignore emotionally charged complaints and focus on actual data and logical reasoning. Nerfing a killer because he annoys people isn’t healthy balance philosophy.
And the players disconnecting against him at the start need longer penalties, instead of catering to those type of players they should be either suspended or given longer deserters.
When you like to post videos, here is link for you, so you can learn how to play ghoul properly:
https://youtu.be/KIdBjmT0708?si=psd6JBLN9E6zjf3d"exteremely hard" and "unrealistic" :D
Imagine trying to preach about his counterplay, when you don't even know what the killer can actually do.If his pallet vault gets nerfed again, what is he left with? A mediocre M1 killer that nobody wants to play?
If that's what you are left with, you are just bad Ghoul…
Free injury and one of best mobility powers is pretty good start.
If you actually find some skill and learn how to use his power in loops, then even better. As long he can just vault for downs, there is no reason to even try to get better with him and just crutch on easy playstyle with Bamboozle instead. -
@Langweilig said:
Why should this not be intentional? It was always intended that you can‘t vault back, otherwise he would have never injured/downed someone by vaulting.
Making it guaranteed down for safe loops is really not better.
Before survivor had at least chance to try and get the timing right for revault…I am pretty sure you can still do it against Wesker, whos vault is worse overall compare to Kaneki.
Legion has easiest revault ever, because how far he vaults from window.It's not an issue for them, but Kaneki somehow "needs" it. Free injury is not enough, he also needs free down.
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Well, there is a chance we will never seen Skully rework, because devs will just say her current state is good enough in their opinion…
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If it is supposed to be 3-gen perk, then it would need requirement to work only on gen with X amount of regression events used.
Otherwise it's not anti 3-gen perk, when it works all the time on all gens.3-gen is really not an issue anymore..