Peanits
Peanits
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- Peanits
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@Dwight_Fairfield said:
@Peanits Any chance you guys could leave it in? I think most people really like that feature. Even if it was not intentional.
In a perfect world, absolutely. Although people can (and do) use it to dodge lobbies, and that's not something we want to see return.
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@FalseFroggs said:
Level 2 had “unhook 15 survivors” but level 3 is unhook 10...
Correct. Since the node is right at the start of level 3, it creates a bottleneck where everyone's fighting for unhooks, making the challenge take even longer. We want people to get through that one sooner rather than later.
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@AhoyWolf said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/876517#Comment_876517
Did I saw correctly? You will be changing fatigue speed? That's nice! I hope you will surprise us all with more stuff about Legion.
Fatigue speed is not being changed, just the speed while Feral Frenzy is active.
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Eastern. It'll always be eastern unless we specifically mention otherwise.
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The smart move would be to chain hits together, then catch up to the last guy before ending frenzy. The time you spend in fatigue is the same either way, as is the distance they'll gain while you're in fatigue. You could either close as much distance as possible at 1m/s (soon to be 1.2m/s), or you can close it at 0.6m/s.
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The new system is meant to prevent exactly that- leaving just because you don't like something. You won't have a free pass to disconnect from certain things, that would defeat the whole point.
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I did the math and it checks out. 2 is indeed equal to 1.
For real, though, we have a fix on the way. Check the link at the top of the page for the full changes.
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I'm fairly confident we'd be able to do that, although it's sorta' nebulous. A Trapper can end a chase before it ever starts, a stealth killer can pop up and hit a survivor before they can react, and the Legion can run around and hit multiple survivors (counting as a chase), just to name a few. Not to mention that it's possible to drop a chase half way through and then get it back, so that would mess everything up.
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@Fibijean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/876144#Comment_876144
I was also under the impression that it was additive, so the 14% bonus would be 14% of what is usually referred to as 100% movement speed (4.0m/s), not 14% of the Wraith's base speed.
So I guess either @Peanits got his maths wrong, or we both learned something new today!
I'd have to double check on the NOED part, but the Wraith does indeed multiply his current speed by 1.1 to get his cloak speed (5.06m/s).
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@Fibijean said:
From my experience so far, it seems to only count one emblem per match, regardless of how many iridescent emblems you actually get in that match. Either it's a bug, or the challenge is badly worded. My money's on the former.
Correct.
We're hoping to have it fixed shortly.
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There is no speed cap, no, although since the speed modifiers are additive, you can only get it so high. To use the Wraith as an example, you start at 4.6m/s, and then it totals up you bonuses. If you have NOED and you're cloaked, you'd get 10% and 4% for a total of 14%. 4.6 * 1.14 = 5.24m/s.
Short version is: No cap, but there's not that many things that can increase your speed.
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@Kenshin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/874819#Comment_874819
i hope you guys change the tome 4 aswell. it got leaked and looked even more terrible than this one.
As we've said before, some of those are placeholders and were planned to be changed before it ever went live.
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I can't speak for everyone, but I've experienced it myself since the last update.
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@ASurvkillivorer said:
Can we please get a hotfix on this? This is ridiculous 15+ matches to get something done that would normally take me 5-6 matches.
Worse I get camped or something and get zero iri when the friggin match before I had 4 that I got no credit for....
That's the plan- we're looking to fix it as soon as possible. Don't worry, we're on it.
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@CrowFoxy said:
No the devs do not listen to feedback.
While we appreciate the vote of confidence, there are changes on the way.
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Is it camping? Yes. Is that a bad thing? No.
You didn't get a chance to leave a hook yet and they're already running in. You have no reason to leave, you did nothing wrong. Not camping in that scenario would be a bad move.
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We have. It's a known issue and we're hoping to get it fixed ASAP. It's currently giving you one point if you get any amount of iridescent emblems, which is not intended.
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@BunnyTheHutt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/874590#Comment_874590
"Nope, the target we aim for is 50%. The numbers they're actually pulling in are all over 60% right now. I can confirm that they are accurate."
This is a direct quote from you earlier in the thread, you literally say they are all over 60%, which is confirming that killers all are around 60% or higher, so if you are aiming for 50% and the lowest a killer is is 60%, with the highest being around 70% in the stats, then they aren't accurate.
Also, how can we start conversations when every time someone does a dev comes in and says "We said it in the stats post and I'll say it again here, you should not draw conclusions from those stats. They are about as broad as they get. They don't show details and account for any amount of factors."? What's the point of giving stats when it doesn't mean anything in the end and people can't use them for conversations? Will we ever get stats that are actually based for balancing so people can have conversations about them?
I'm not sure what's confusing you here, but saying that they are all over 60% is objectively true.
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It would definitely be very interesting to see, although I doubt it would stop people from questioning the stats. I'm not very good at Hillbilly (only play one game with him every now and then ever since mid 2016), so naturally my stats are going to be lower than the average. That doesn't mean that the stats are wrong, that just means that I'm not as good as other Hillbilly players.
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@BunnyTheHutt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/874485#Comment_874485
Why not simply give us stats that we CAN draw conclusions from? Why must the stats be so vague and inaccurate for when you make them public? When can we see stats that we can use for balance suggestions? When are we getting stats that are accurate and have all factors accounted for? Where are the survivor stats?
Also, if you're aiming for 50%, all killers are actually around 60%, but the stats posted have killers at 70%, there is still a massive problem.
I have never claimed that they are "actually around 60%". I've only stated that they are all at least 60%- which is true. Even the Clown, who is the lowest on those graphs, is over 60%.
Stats alone are not enough to make decisions on. Even we do not make decisions purely based on stats. We could go into very specific details, but there's always going to be a "what if". What if you counted this as well? What if you exclude that? What if you only look at matches with this perk?
Point being, the stats are there for fun and to spark conversation, not make conclusions.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/874412#Comment_874412
So every killer is getting nerfed then.
That's the takeaway a lot of people are getting from this.
No one is calling them inaccurate they are saying with this and no other information provided it's creating more confusion than it's helping.
This is why historical we have not released stats that often; when we do, even if we suggest not drawing conclusions, some people will draw conclusions.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/871403#Comment_871403
If they are accurate that would mean killers are averaging like 70% or more win rate and that can't be right, you said it was closer to around 50% for all killers.
That is the problem people have with it, on the steam forums everyone is freaking out saying nerf EVERY killer because every killer so so high above that 50% marker according to that sheet.
Nope, the target we aim for is 50%. The numbers they're actually pulling in are all over 60% right now. I can confirm that they are accurate.
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It's bugged and we're hoping to have a fix out soon.
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@Carlosylu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/874213#Comment_874213
YES! We need that! Sorry if I'm being dumb but, "technical limitations" means it will never work? Or that it just needs fixing?
Basically the forums we use don't really support something like that. We're using a different feature and trying to re-purpose it to do something it wasn't meant to do, so it's only visible to devs. Unfortunately we don't have control over that.
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@Carlosylu said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/874202#Comment_874202
I know dude, I was REALLY mad about this too, I made a specific post with more than 1K views on it in the past, I just hope they do the best they can. I kept the argument about them reading everything, but it would be nice if they had an "I read this" button you know? The problem is that if they added it they would have a bigger problem with the posts they didnt' read from there on, hehe
Like this one?
We actually have that button, but it doesn't show on the thread itself due to technical limitations, so it tends to go unused. I would love to have something like that, though.
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Two challenges sounds really nice on paper, but it probably wouldn't work so well in practice. Since the nodes are connected together and only unlock once the previous one is completely, chances are you're not going to be able to multitask much. You'll probably only have one survivor and one killer node available most of the time, and you can't do both of those at the same time.
Being able to select one killer challenge and one survivor challenge might be nice for those who switch back and forth often, though. That way you don't have to go back in each time you switch sides.
We hear you guys about the Rift being grindy- we're taking that feedback to the team.
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We are still taking in all of your feedback, we just don't have a chance to reply to every thread. This past week has been pretty busy for the CM team- we're working on some stuff behind the scenes that we're hoping to reveal soon- but things are ramping down and we're going to be more active again. But nonetheless, we are still reading feedback and bringing it to the team.
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I wouldn't worry too much about it. Your goal is to not die, and if throwing those pallets makes you not die, there's nothing to be ashamed of.
For higher level play, you'll want to conserve pallets as much as possible, though. Pallets are a finite resource. Once they're gone, they're gone. You'll ideally want to save as many as possible by using windows when you can and only dropping pallets when the killer is close. Using a bunch of pallets might keep you alive, but later in the match you'll have none left to use. Sometimes it's better to go down than to use a bunch of pallets.
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Nope. Some people just like to make up their own rules (respect the 4%, for example).
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Ruin would absolutely need to change if that were the case, otherwise the generator would regress back to 0 after only a few seconds of someone doing it. You could probably even get away with just camping the totem if the people you're going against aren't great at hitting skill checks. Add in the Doctor's madness skill check and you're gonna' have a bad time.
Though I don't know how much it would actually help. If someone is good at skill checks, they likely wouldn't have a problem hitting at least good skill checks. It might be a little to frantic to hit greats consistently, but the end result would be roughly the same. New players would probably struggle though. A rank 20 match would sound like a skill check minigun going off.
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There's a lot more to it than it seems on paper. If you make all perks overpowered, then none are overpowered- sure. But that doesn't make them any more fun to use or go against. For example, sure, we could take Prove Thyself and make it buff repair speed more, and we could take Resilience and buff that to ~30%. People would use them, but is that good for the game? Do you really want people to repair generators incredibly fast? Going crazy with buffs will make those perks used more for sure, but it's not good for the game.
As far as meta goes, there's always going to be some people out there who use whatever gives them the best chances of winning. To each their own, if that's your style, you do you. We'll do our best to make sure that there's no single perk that's too crazy, although we can't exactly change someone's mind if they're dead set on something being the best and wanting to use it.
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@BunnyTheHutt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/871403#Comment_871403
They can't be accurate and broad, it's one or the other. If they are accurate then everything should be accounted for, if they are broad with many factors that weren't checked, then they are inaccurate. The fact that the stats are mixed between console and PC alone make it incredibly inaccurate because it's two very different playstyles. Old Nurse was the best on PC, but the worst on console, if you mix those two stats together it would be a very inaccurate and not tell the full story.
This is a direct quote from you on a Demogorgon post:
You'll have to forgive me since I don't have time to read through the whole thing right now, but:
I only thought I'd address this now that I finally have the PROOF that Demo is not a powerful killer. As per the stats released, at red ranks, Demo fairs very poorly, having the SECOND LOWEST kill rate in the game, just barely above The Clown.
We said it in the stats post and I'll say it again here, you should not draw conclusions from those stats. They are about as broad as they get. They don't show details and account for any amount of factors. To give an example, he's just barely below the Nurse and the Huntress, two fairly powerful killers. Are they bad too? I feel like most people would say no, they just have a learning curve and there's a lot of people who don't regularly play them will pull those numbers down.
When you even say "They don't show details and account for any amount of factors." then you can't say they are accurate. You can't have no details and it be accurate.
They are both accurate and broad. I think they word you're looking for is precise. They are not looking a specific thing (e.g. Which is stronger, snares or fake pallets?), which is why you should not make a very specific conclusion with them.
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There's a graph for red ranks specifically, if that's what you're after. They're higher than the all ranks stats.
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@Kenshin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/871403#Comment_871403
tell me your logic pls. you say its balanced when two die and two escape. but you cant pip as killer with this logic (at least not in high ranks) explain pls thank you.
I'd argue that your gripe is then with the emblem system, not with the balance itself. Although if you get two kills, you shouldn't necessarily pip. That's as close as you can get to a draw. You should be pipping when you do well and not pip once you get to a rank where you're comfortable.
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They are accurate. The reason why you shouldn't draw conclusions from there is because they are very broad. They don't tell you what perks, offerings, or add-ons were used, what maps it was played on, etc.
To give an example, you shouldn't look at it and go, "Wow, Freddy is OP!" That's a blanket statement. You should only use it as we do, to see where a problem might be. Is it Freddy himself, or is it a specific combination of add-ons and offerings? Is it the snares or the pallets? These are the sorts of questions you should be asking.
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@FearlessHunter said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/868646#Comment_868646
That may be true but even you guys can't deny how rare it is to see him. Yesterday I saw a Demogorgon for the first time in two months. I see clown way more than I see Demogorgon and clown is easily the worst killer in the game. Something isn't right here... I'm not sure if it's because his addons suck or if people just don't know how to play him or if a lot pf people haven't bought the stranger things DLC due to it being the most expensive chapter but it's just weird how rare the Demogorgon is.
Not that rare, actually. I played against one last night. If all killers were played exactly equally, you'd see them in about 5.88% of matches, and it's just a little bit below that (as much if not more than a bunch of other killers).
Now the Hag, that's a rare one to see.
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@bendermac said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/865859#Comment_865859
Isn't this exactly what you guys did when you nerfed nurse and Spirit... Using stats?
Nope. Although some people would like you to believe otherwise, we do our research first and see what the actual problem is.
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@Spooky13 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/868587#Comment_868587
Any chance killers like Plague or Billy will have their power count for emblems? Plague's sickness damage and Corrupt Purge don't appear to count for emblems, and bringing a survivor from Healthy to Downed in one hit like with Billy's Chainsaw should count for two hits in Malicious. Makes ranking up and getting Adepts as these killers nearly impossible when using their power, I only got Adept Plague by completely ignoring her power altogether.
That would be the end goal, although it would need to be looked at separately for each killer so it would likely take a lot of work, so it's hard to squeeze it in.
@shadesofjoe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/868587#Comment_868587
Hey man. Thanks for clarifying. I'm totally cool with being wrong about ranking up if that's what the data says. Do you have any insight as to why killers feel like it's harder for them to rank up compared to survivors? I play both sides and it certainly feels that way to me. Is there something we are missing about gameplay on the killer side that we should be focusing on in terms of ranking up?
It's cool that you guys balance the game around other factors besides kill rates. I think it would be nice to see some of that data, though. Releasing only the kill rates sort of creates a narrative (game is imbalanced in favor of killers) that maybe isn't true if we had all of the information, since the message I'm getting from you is that the game is in a relatively balanced state from the developers' perspective.
Thanks again for the information!
A lot of it comes down to perception. As the killer, it's just you. You make a mistake, you're going to feel it. As a survivor, you've got three other people watching your back. You make a mistake, they're there to help you. Survivor can be a mixed bag, though. Sometimes you get a string of good teammates that do generators and work together well, other times you get stuck with people who hide in lockers for 30 seconds any time someone is hooked and self care in a corner. There's the good and the bad, and it averages out.
As for the rest, there's far too much data to just dump all at once.
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You'll have to forgive me since I don't have time to read through the whole thing right now, but:
I only thought I'd address this now that I finally have the PROOF that Demo is not a powerful killer. As per the stats released, at red ranks, Demo fairs very poorly, having the SECOND LOWEST kill rate in the game, just barely above The Clown.
We said it in the stats post and I'll say it again here, you should not draw conclusions from those stats. They are about as broad as they get. They don't show details and account for any amount of factors. To give an example, he's just barely below the Nurse and the Huntress, two fairly powerful killers. Are they bad too? I feel like most people would say no, they just have a learning curve and there's a lot of people who don't regularly play them will pull those numbers down.
The Demogorgon is in the same boat. His shred attack takes some practice to use well (timing, aiming) much like the Huntress. In the right hands, he can still do well.
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Gotta' chime in here; #1 is not true. There are also statistics on the amount of people ranking up on each side. The percentage was significantly lower on the survivor side when the emblem system first came out. These days it's much closer to what it should be.
That would also invalidate #2, although it's pretty nebulous to say in the first place since different killers earn emblems at different rates. The Legion, for example, gets a ton of chaser score because of their fast first hits and multiple chases. Meanwhile killers like the Plague, Hillbilly, etc. only hit survivors once to down them, meaning they lose out on a lot of chaser score, making them harder to rank. If it was just a matter of emblems, a killer like the Legion would be doing much worse as some of the people playing them would rank up further than they should and drag down the kill rates.
Anyway, long story short, we actually don't balance around kill rates alone. Kill rates are just one of the many things that might show us where a problem could be, but we do our research first.
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@Luke_Atmey said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/866704#Comment_866704
What is the kill rate for 1DC3kill? 100%? 75%? Or no count?
Not counted. If there's a DC in the match, the match is not counted.
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@TheHourMan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/866712#Comment_866712
So 75%+?
The devs saud a long time ago that they want it to be around a 60% kill rate in red ranks. Idk if they still stick to that, but these stats seem to fit somewhat well with that.
50% is still the target, although we're not against it being a little higher if it's still fun.
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The matches with DCs are completely excluded.
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@Go_Go_Roboto said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/866604#Comment_866604
They wanted to single out nurse I imagine because of the rework and how she's much more difficult to play with a controller.
Correct. We want to do general stats, but then also pick something specific (usually it'll be related to something that has changed recently, to see how the changes affect them).
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The final one is for PC specifically. There are some exceptions to the rule, namely Nurse and Huntress, but for the most part, the platform does not affect these stats significantly. It's within one or two percent in most cases.
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@Carlosylu said:
Dude, there's A LOT more to it...
I actually believe the kill rates are different from normality for killers... Since the Tomes arrived challenges make you run like a fool scaring crows whyle the killer needs to "kill 4 survivors in any way necessary in a single match" and that was Tome 1. The study was for 3 months, from Aug 21st to Nov 21st
So... Survivors get to play "off the objective" whyle killers make challenges to help them get the objective, the challenges promote Trapper and Claudette as main characters for your gameplay.
They're not too different than what they were before the archives, for what it's worth. It goes both ways, though. Sometimes the survivors have generators as their objectives while the killer is trying to hook everyone in the basement.
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The archives are part of the reason why he's so popular, but it's also because he's the default killer that's selected when you first play the game and also the "poster boy". He's the one on all the branding, the box art, etc. People are naturally drawn to him.
I can't say for sure since it's pretty much impossible to say just by looking at average numbers, but I would imagine that the fact new players and people who don't normally play him would bring those numbers down.
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@Fibijean said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/866479#Comment_866479
Wouldn't that mean that a pick rate of 10% would indicate that that killer was played 1 in every 10 trials?
You're right, I misread it. Edited my post.
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@Uxoricide said:
Thanks for getting back @Peanits ! Gotcha so upcoming change for console players, that's nice for them! Does this mean no upcoming changes for PC?
Not in the near future, at least. We want to see what kind of effect this has first and people are still adjusting.
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@EJmurdermain said:
I'm having a little trouble understanding, would 75% = 3k and 10 be 1/10 trials?
For the first, correct. 75% would be three kills (i.e. you've killed 75% of the survivors).
For the latter, no, it's a percentage of which that killer was picked out of all matches played. So if they were all picked equally, you'd be looking at 100% / 17 = ~5.88%EDIT: Wait, I see what you mean. Yes.