Orochi
Orochi
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- Orochi
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The game is supposed to be geared more towards Killer but really strong loopers and SWFs basically negate that. BNP also needs a rework.
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Legion, Solo or not.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3326104#Comment_3326104
So you don't see telling all the survivor nearly exactly what each other are doing at all times as "just making things stronger"? That is exactly what it's doing.
We can "also" say it is making the experience more enjoyable, but let's be honest, why is it more enjoyable? Because you can be stronger and more efficient from that information.
I feel like trying to call it just a QoL would be extremely disingenuous.
A QoL change would be something like having your loadouts pre-saved in order to waste less time. That isn't stronger, it's just convenience. That is what QoL is. QoL is feel good/convenience changes, not power.
Let's say they reduced all Exhaustion perks cooldown by 10 seconds. This would just be a buff because it doesn't make the game FEEL better to play, just easier. These changes make the game less crappy for Solo Q to play and help them play with people they have zero communication with. Yes it can be considered a net buff too, but the main intention is QoL.
Maybe this means we can actually tone down SWF in some way in the future, as the disparity between Solo and SWF after these changes will still have a big gap.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3326038#Comment_3326038
Devils advocate here:
So hypothetically if you gave survivors a 3rd health state "you" would say that "could" be considered only a QoL instead of a buff because a person could potentially just run into a wall and be dumb? Rather than it being objectively a buff?
That's clearly just a straight up buff. Come on now. QoL changes improve the gaming experience in different ways than just buffing. That was more the point I was trying to make.
Buff = JUST making things stronger
QoL= making things better and the experience more enjoyable
I see a difference but if you don't, hey different strokes I guess.
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@YOURFRIEND said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3326015#Comment_3326015
It completely obviates most aura reading perks and frees up those slots for survivors. Kindred is pointless now(especially after the gen progress icon), alert is pointless(you can see that the killer is in chase), bond is dead. It's got such a huge knock-on effects for everything in the game and seeing you try to downplay it is extremely frustrating. I'm thankful you're willing to sideways admit that it's a buff but I hope you factor average gen times into your statistics gathering and not just kills.
She's saying it that way because it can be considered QoL or a buff, depending on how it is used.
1. I've died on first hook plenty of times running Kindred. The only person willing to save gets found and the other two see it, yet still sit on their gens. They have the info and still choose not to use it and give the Killer two free hook states. Also the problem of multiple soloq'ers running it and wasting perk slots is gone, I see that as more of a QoL change than a buff.
2. Alert still shows you exactly where the Killer is and what area pallets are being broken in. That is still valuable. This perk is not run too much but it will still do its job after the change.
3. Like I said before, I feel Bond is used more for evil than good. So if it gets used less, that is a QoL change at least from my gameplay experience.
I'm not going to downplay it like it isn't a buff but again, can also be seen as simple QoL changes too.
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If they ever made Bond basekit, it probably wouldn't take long for me to stop playing SoloQ altogether. Too many Survivors use that perk for evil rather than good (ironic considering the perks name)
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I've been running Distortion for years. Way before the buffs. When I try not to run it, I feel naked. Even if it gets zero value in a match.
It's a good defensive and informational perk, especially in a SWF where you can relay them the info without them having to run it themselves. Lose a token start of the match? "Everyone hide, he's got Lethal!" Healing and lose a token? "Oh snap, Killer has Nurse's!" It's just so good, took surprisingly long to gain traction imo.
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After getting Adept Plague on old Haddonfield, I believe I can win any map as Killer. The hardest for me are the Badham maps unless I'm playing a teleporting/mobile killer, but still not unwinnable.
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As a mostly Solo Q player, I am saying no. Eruption is just an additive to the real problem, which is the massive amount of bad Solo Q players out there. A few classes of these players:
1. They think they are better players than they are, thus blame eveything going badly on everyone but themselves (even though sometimes it also the rest of the team performing poorly)
2. Are completely selfish and do everything that makes sure they live and who cares who else does. The type that do just enough all game to pip but not take any risks and then hide to get hatch.
3. People who quit when someone goes down too fast in the beginning. I'm even having other players do this, not even the first one to go down is the one that DCs!!
4. People who, even with Kindred on, will still have two people running towards the hook to try to get it first. Or let you die on first hook to sit on their gen it takes them 200 seconds to do. With zero hooks yet. With 4 players left. WITH KINDRED.
The list goes on. Toxic Survivor behavior will be the end of this game before anything else. Not some broken perks. Not tunneling/camping. It will be Solo Q'ing dying and Killers not just wanting to face SWFs as the only players left. But it is the Survivors themselves that are making the experience so bad for those of us who actually play smart, yet selflessly. The really bad ones are the most blind to this fact sadly.
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@Xernoton said:
If BHVR are biased towards one side at all, I think they don't realize. It seems to me they are trying to improve the experience for all players, killers and survivors. The problem is, that DBD is one of a kind. They can't look at other games and just copy their balance. They are pretty much pioneers in that regard, which is why a lot of things spiral out of control before they decide to work on that (like DH's 75% pick rate ore 6.1.0).
Pioneers, and I think they are doing a great job no matter what anyone thinks. A perfectly balanced game is a BORING game. Things have to be strong on both sides but there isn't anything so oppressive that either side can't win. They have done so much over the years and I feel a lot users on here don't even know the struggles for both sides dating back to like 2017-18...they would have a heart attack if they had to deal with the old balance and maps lol.
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Killer: Franklin's Demise. Lemme use my yellow medkit!
Survivor: Head On. I get it's fun leading the Killer into it and has it clutch uses, but getting hit by a Head On setup 45 seconds into a game by a SWF just instantly kills my morale.
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Really yucky feeling when everyone, coordinated or not, bring a bunch of point offerings everyone benefits from only to have the Killer go AFK. You're only going to get probably 1/3 of the points you could have gotten.
Seen a lot of Killers quit when they think point offerings we're coordinated by a SWF even when they weren't. Just another thing making Killers think they face more SWFs than they really do. Just play the game...you'll still get good points even if they all get out.
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We got those perks basekit because they were Survivors only defense against some of the strongest Killer tactics. They wanted to mix up the meta perks, and most Survivors felt running these perks was absolutely necessary, which for the most part it was.
The biggest problem Killers face is "gen rush", and they have 4 perk slots they use to deal with that already. I wouldn't mind if they gave them base Corrupt Intervention or something similar but then they would have to adjust the other perks so that stacking 4 gen defense on top of the basekit perk wouldn't be completely overwhelming to finish gens.
I'm all for it but only if they don't just shoehorn it into the game just because Killers think they deserve it. It has to be balanced.
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@Superbeasto1974 said:
Same energy as grade school kids getting tilted over a game of tag. 😂
Yeah, sounds like a lot of the Killer mains on this forum who find a way to complain about every single thing that gives Survivors any advantage or they deem broken and cheap.
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Sex sells.
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@Rovend said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3260603#Comment_3260603
Sometimes i get good games, but those kind of games are not the ones that people will open thread to talk about
Yeah that makes sense. People act so exaggerated and apocalyptic about everything. But mostly both sides just cherry pick stuff just to try and get the other side nerfed and it's annoying.
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Are people's games really this consistently bad like a lot of people parrot on this forum? And if so, I hate to sound like an ass but why are you still playing if it's truly that unpleasant?
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I've been trying Sprint Burst over Dead Hard lately and I find I so much more useful in the lot of situations. And you always get the effect, DH can be screwed up and get no value. DH is still great though.
Exhaustion perks are made to gain distance from the Killer, that's just the way it is.
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Absolutely. I loved using it and playing against it. No more fun "let's find the totem, guys" games anymore. Maybe some people didn't like it, but it was always one of my favorite things. Even back when Ruin was dominating and busted (call me a masochist if you like) xD
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Before I even read anything, Imma just leave this and head out:
No side will bend on the arguments in these Nurse threads, the horse has been beaten to a bloody pulp. Just move on...
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@Archol123 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3256806#Comment_3256806
Mostly yes, she is fine... Some addons might be a bit too strong, but basekit nurse is fine...
Agreed, honestly.
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@Shroompy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3256791#Comment_3256791
learning the map really isnt that big of an issue, the issue lies with tight corridors and making multiple killer powers simply not work because of it
Exactly...I thought Lery's was bad with Huntress but RPD took the cake. Granted I'm still brushing the rust and dust of my Huntress :3
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Cuz Nurse just gonna Nurse. But, you know, "Nurse is fine"
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@Dionysus42 said:
I have never had an issue with Nurse when I play survivor. My assumption is just there is a skill and ego issue on the survivor side so they commit to harassing the Killer, going for blinds and whatnot and then get downed in 2 seconds. Or play some weak perks and still expect to get 0 hooks + 4 man escape every single game.
A lot of complaints from both sides are caused by ego and skill issue. It's a big problem that can never be solved. I think the game is actually pretty well balanced for the most part right now.
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How does bad RNG one game make this map in any way Killer sided? The gens certainly don't always spawn that way. Blame luck or bad map design before somehow blaming the devs for making it a Killer-sided issue, please.
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@PB_TORCHer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3256581#Comment_3256581
I and others will still slug no matter what the base kit or perks are…again it will NEVER go away
Aaaand I'm talking to a wall. Hi Wall, I'm Nick. Nice to meet you. Have a great day :)
But in all seriousness, I said at the end I HONESTLY don't want slugging invalidated...but I'll end it there. No point in trying to have a friendly argument with a brick wall.
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@PB_TORCHer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3256552#Comment_3256552
That’s called winning. Slugging is going to happen Base kit or not - boon or not- unbreakable or not. I will still slug if I need to. If survivors swarm, sabo, or in a bad position I can capitalize on. I will slug you, they will slug you. It’s never going away no matter what.
Huh? Yeah of course it's a way to win. I slug as Killer also. But it's not an auto win if at least one or two have Unbreakable. That's my point. It feels like you HAVE to run it just so the Killer doesn't steamroll a match by slugging. If it's base, at least Killer will have to think a little bit about doing it instead of just going ham with little fear that someone will pick themselves up.
I can't control the other 3 Survivors to not misplay and throw the whole match by being too altruistic or whatever else they did to cause the snowball of slugging.
I would hope they could implement it in a way that doesn't just flat out invalidate slugging though, cuz that would be a bummer too.
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@PB_TORCHer said:
What s next?… survivors hate being injured and it’s too risky to be in that state so everyone get base self-care….lol
Many things are available to help aspects of the game you want to avoid. Run the perks = issue fixed
Being injured doesn't lose games. Getting in a situation where the Killer ends up slugging everyone (Starstruck Nurse for example) can lose games. Yeah we can argue it might have been on the Survivors side for making mistakes or whatever other variables, but it's still not something one can predict the Killer is going to do. That's why it feels necessary to run Unbreakable, because that situation is just a big bummer and it is your only hope of turning the tides unless Exponential just happens to be up and you are close enough to utilize it.
Like I said, I don't care if it makes it in either way because I know it will hurt Killer and I can still just run Unbreakable. But I get why they considered adding it because it just removes that feeling of necessity, just like it used to feel with DS and BT for tunneling.
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I don't even care about it weakening Killer or find slugging that annoying/oppressive of a strategy. I'm just tired of running Unbreakable in all of my builds in the off chance I do get slugged long enough to even use it. I actually like running fun, synergistic builds but having to run this perk that ends up being a wasted slot most of the time is what is getting annoying.
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The most picked characters get the most skins. Sucks for those of us that like the lesser used characters, but you just can't argue that from a business standpoint BHVR is making the right decision. Unfortunately the right decision is not always the most popular one.
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@NoOneKnowsNova said:
It was nice ^^
Didn't change up the game all that much but it didn't have to. Came with some nice free cosmetics and a super cute spider charm :3
Only complaint is that they announced limited time skins alongside it but oh well guess we can't always get amazing things.
I FORGOT TO CLAIM THAT noooooooo :'(
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Give us Species for a new female Killer.
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Says devs don't want the killer to feel good
Wants last two Survivors to be tortured and exposed by crows just so he can feel good
This is why developers shouldn't listen to salty killer mains. Or really anyone for that matter...since both sides (especially killer) really just want the other side to be miserable while they just have a blast kicking their ass. Just take it as it is, hatch is not going away.
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Guess what that will change? Absolutely nothing. People who are good with her will still wash people.
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@Kosturko92 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3243580#Comment_3243580
That's the issue
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/16EWCKJ4K9KS/image.png
Check this boy here, this is game i just played, he teabagged me after pallet stun, and after i downed him he dced, those kind of people are making this game looks bad, not killer or map design. It's selfish and toxic behaviour
Both sides make this game look bad in their own ways. We really acting like Killers can't be toxic, give me a break...
And you literally admitted to 80% of your games having at least one DC, how is that a good ratio of people not hating playing sweaty Nurses?
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Well get used to it because they can't nerf SWF without destroying Solo Q even more. The only way they can nerf it is to prevent SWFs entirely, which would be a sledgehammered nail in the coffin for this game.
Also every SWF isn't playing this game like their actual life depends on getting out the gate, I think most of us are just trying to have fun and do our best to get our friends out alive.
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Just use team coordination and you can usually get them off safely without getting grabbed unless a Survivor messes up. If you can't coordinate, well tough cookies tbh. Either keep on your gen or go for the gate, if the killer is sacrificing valuable time to secure a kill that's on them. Not everything has to be 'fair'.
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Dang, I specifically didn't prestige my Blight before the big update cuz he had like 20+ Flans on him. 100k bloodpoints as an apology doesn't nearly cover how much BP I will need to get him to the prestige level he would have had. Sadness.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3236045#Comment_3236045
ACTUAL counterplay is not what you’re implying. God pallets and structures actually have no gameplay or counterplay on the killer side. The killer is forced to eat through pallets, by which time a competent team has done the gens. Nurse is one of the few killers in the game that has actual mind games that give each side a chance to guess right.
See, I know the problems with survivor imbalance, and can fully own up to those problems. And I don't see Killers as a whole as a problem, just Nurse. Deflection in full force by going straight to a Survivor problem instead of explaining how to actually counter Nurse, which none of you ever seem to be able to do.
"Here's what Survivors do outside of gen rush to beat me:" said no Nurse defender ever.
If they nerfed her and buffed all the other Killers, I wouldn't even bat an eye.
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@woundcowboy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3236016#Comment_3236016
Guesses aren’t lucky: they require you to get inside of the other person’s head. If guesses were all about luck, pros from other games wouldn’t be consistently successful. The best players are always in the running, if not winning.
Okay? It's still a guess as opposed to ACTUAL counterplay. The way Nurse works, you basically guess rather than mind game since she defies all the physical limitations all the other killers deal with.
I honestly liked playing against Nurse before the big patch. It was a fun challenge, and I didn't even need Dead Hard to outplay her (which I think is a huge reason others are having so much trouble with her now). But to adjust so many things favorably for the Killer in general and not adjust the strongest killer in the game? She just feels gross to play against now, especially with exposed perks.
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@CoDismylife said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3233950#Comment_3233950
You just don't know how to read stats. It means nurse is hard to play and not many can play her. Look at 5% mmr and see how she's not the weakest anymore.
Yall bad at understanding these numbers
It reminds me of Cammy in Street Fighter 5. Worst win rate the entire lifespan of the game, but was undoubtedly a top 3 A+ character. She's just popular and easy to learn so noobs who sucked dragged down her win rate. Didn't mean she wasn't dominating tournaments.
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@Ryuhi said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3236008#Comment_3236008
All you have to do is do a gen, then boon the totem right next to it after you finish if there is one. By finishing the gen you have removed that portion of the map as a priority, as the killer generally wants to use their presence to slow down pressure of said gens. If there is a 3 gen for example, that first finished gen will generally be quite far outside of the killer's effective range, and will cause them to sacrifice the 3 gen pressure to deal with it.
Yeah I'm not saying it's weak, but it can be easily misused. Maybe cuz I was SoloQ'ing it felt underwhelming especially when you're the only one doing gens. But thank you for the advice, I'll consider that if I want to try a boon build again.
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Nobody is going to give you videos of them losing, stop with that crap too. Just because nobody gives you videos doesn't mean s*** either.
Counterplay to Nurse: make lucky guesses the whole match
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@Shroompy said:
CoH really aint a problem and wastes A LOT more time than people realize
what does need to be addressed, are medkits.
Exactly. I finally bought Mikaela as I was very against boons (as Survivor and Killer), and I felt like I was throwing games looking for a totem so long unless I brought a map. And then on top of that you still have to heal. Way better than Inner Strength but I just didn't like it, love Shadow Step though.
I have always brought Med-Kits almost every game since I started playing years ago and it is just so much more reliable. Yeah the whole team can't get the benefit but games are still very winnable without CoH on any player. And there is nothing more frustrating than a team who misuses boons and waste way too much time running back and healing or booning the same totem over and over as the Killer repeatedly snuffs it within seconds.
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If I see a Nurse try to start slugging right at the start of the match, there is no telling what I'll do. *shrugs* depends on my mood?
And I'm real tired of coming into these Nurse posts to see folks with a Nurse avatar always saying "Nurse is fine" NO she actually isn't, but keep living in your fantasy world that echoing your lies is going to protect her from getting nerfed/changed because it IS going to happen. Cuz she is certainly NOT "fine", every other killer is fair but her. Skill ceiling should never be a reason to let something stay busted, once you get enough practice with her it becomes second nature to use her just like anything else with a learning curve. Like learning to play an instrument.
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Survivors HAVE to do gens.
Killers, no matter how necessary they feel it might be, do NOT HAVE to camp and tunnel.
That's literally it. Sorry you're getting "gen rushed" but what the hell else are Survivors supposed to? Just sit around and let the Killer get a couple hooks before they sit on a gen? Come on now.
I'm also getting extremely tired of killers using examples that are just super optimized SWFs. Like that is really happening every game, stuff that probably only happens 1 in 100 games.
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So basically in your eyes, nothing Survivors do takes any skill, and anything they can do that prevents your 4k is bad. Gotcha.
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The only thing I'm going to chime in on is that it's high usage by Survivors isn't because it's really all that amazing. I think it is because most people are casuals, and this perk is available to everyone base game. And it truly is one of the best perks of the base ones available, and one of the most useful to new and/or soloQ players.
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@fulltonon said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3036715#Comment_3036715
I mean why survivors suddenly deserves to have a chance for escape literally handed for free in already lost game? killers don't have anything like that as a basekit.
I just don't get it, when survivors are winning they deserves to escape with four without any consequence, but when killer is winning there is still 50/50 RNG factor for 4k?
It just is what it is. There doesn't need to be a reason for it. You've already technically won at that point. Hatch is a fun mechanic for both sides IMO. Giving hatch to be nice, looking for it to leave/get the 4k...I dunno. Hatch was only problematic with keys and multiple people getting out. Now? Complete non-issue. Just another layer of DBD.