Orion
Orion
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- Orion
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@dhealy646 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1347130#Comment_1347130
Pandering? Straight people don't give an f about sexuality that's why it's annoying when all this pc stuff is dumped on us.
If you don't care, why are you complaining about it?
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@EverflowingRiver said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1347117#Comment_1347117
I pointed out the error in your attempt to point out his "error" and you responded trying to monopolize science
Why are you trying to make this thread go off-topic?
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@dhealy646 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1347108#Comment_1347108
Once again it's not about the big gay it's about the blatant pandering and irrelevancy of it. It's needless pc bs being forced on us like everything these days. No one cares if a character is gay or identifies as a helicopter. Also funny you mention leprechauns because I'm Irish and I see one every day
If you don't care, it won't affect your enjoyment. We have heterosexual relationships shoved down our throats already and I didn't see you complain. Blatant pandering to heterosexuals is everywhere.
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@EverflowingRiver said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1347101#Comment_1347101
Bro you've officially driven this thread off topic. I was giving you an example how just saying "science is on my side" doesn't mean science is on you side. There are plenty of people who can make the case that sexual orientation is a choice. Just because it doesn't fit your world view doesn't change this fact.
Also, it used to be established fact that the earth was the flat center of the universe.
This all detracts from the topic at hand of if/how character lore should be created.
I pointed out a tiny error in someone's comment that they acknowledged and said would correct. You're the one still talking about it like I advocated genocide or something.
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@thesuicidefox said:
Keep politics out of video games.
LBGT, SWJ, BLM, Trump, Brexit. IDGAF. It has no place in games.
This is a major reason I decided NOT to pursue a career in game development when I had the chance. Too much political BS. Also ######### working conditions and not job security.
There's nothing political about including people with certain characteristics.
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@dhealy646 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1347069#Comment_1347069
They didn't shove them down our throats. The only mention of any relationship in this game is joey and Julie. Now we will have nothing but all these lgbct characters all over the place just ruining the immersion. I know tons of people and 1 gay person. It's extremely rare so why should every new character have some quirk about them and why does it even matter. This is a game about slaughtering people in an endless cycle not some woke game with deep political messages
There are multiple mentions of relationships in the lore. I think the Nurse was the first one to explicitly mention her heterosexual relationship.
You're right, it doesn't matter, so why are you making such a big deal out of it?
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@EverflowingRiver said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1347075#Comment_1347075
It is when science is questioned. I'm not even saying I disagreed with your point; your point just added nothing to the conversation. Science is used to support both sides of the abortion argument, doesn't mean it needs to be brought up here.
Nobody brought up abortion, it's simply a well-established fact that people cannot choose their sexual orientation.
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@SquirrelKnight said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1347052#Comment_1347052
Also this. Im kind of annoyed seeing games add gay characters because "Hey look we are inclusive!" I dont care what sexuality people are. Dont wanna hear about it, dont want gender politics thrown in my face. So why would i want to see games i play regularly, especially ones with as toxic of a community as this one can be, flooded with gender politics. Honestly this is a dumpster fire waiting to happen
Well, they already added heterosexual relationships. Where's the outrage?
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@Straiden said:
Survivors are all bland and interchangeable. Why bother with backstory on them anyways?
Exactly, just don't read the backstory if you're not interested.
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@Haroharo05 said:
I could really care less about such things in video games and I think it's dumb to make a big deal out of it. Some things should be kept unknown and the person playing that character is more than welcome to believe, to them, they are what they are. Instead you're forcefully taking what some people may already do and forcing them to accept their favorite character is this, or is that, and all of their cosmetics in the future become heavily based around it for all we know.
So, I guess what I'm trying to say is I wish this type of political garbage was left out of a platform that it has no real reason in being in outside of pleasing groups of people. In my experience the people who complain about there being a lack of, say, LGBT things in a video game, are the same type of people who are the kind of people that give LGBT people a bad name. They're the kind of people who force their opinions and beliefs onto you but then hate when you do it to them. And they're the kind of people who say "Bisexual is fine, if you're with someone of the same sex, not opposite." This type of behavior only leads to more problems and more divide.
Just my opinion, as I have experience with that community
There's nothing political about mentioning a character's backstory. Nobody's forcing you to accept anything, as @ABannedCat already proved.
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@EverflowingRiver said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1347036#Comment_1347036
Way to insert politics even more into this thread chief.
Science isn't political, even if certain parties would like it to be.
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@dhealy646 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1347048#Comment_1347048
That's not how they'll do it. Hillbilly just so happened to be from the country. If they add an openly gay character it's all their lore and cosmetics will be about while shoving all of this pc stuff down our throats. They won't make a character that happens to be gay. They'll make a gay person that happens to be a character
You know you don't have to play a certain character, read lore, or wear certain cosmetics if you don't want to, right?
I do wonder where your outrage was when they shoved heterosexual relationships down our throats, though.
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@Straiden said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1347032#Comment_1347032
I just think there is no reason for any character to ha e their sexuality focused on. It is an avenue for grief in a game meant to be a mass murder simulation. Has zero to do with the game. Don't give people the extra avenue to be pigs. BHVR. never thinks of consequences though.
I agree. That's why I want all characters to be shapeless, transparent blobs with no backstory whatsoever. I mean, why do characters have to have their overall body shape, species, and skin color focused on? They're just avenues for griefing.
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@dhealy646 said:
I see it as more pandering rather than diversity. Let's be honest if you're looking for "representation" dbd shouldn't be the game to go to. You don't see me begging and complaining that there isn't an Irish survivor so pushing political agendas in games really shouldn't be as common as it is. But that's just my opinion
Yes, the political agenda of "this character happens to have this characteristic". Who can forget the Hillbilly, for example, who only exists to pander to people from rural areas?
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@NightmareReborn said:
I should start off by saying two things: First off, I'm am a straight male, and I have no experience with the LGBT community. Secondly, I believe that all sexualities are perfectly 100% acceptable. It is your choice to like whoever you want, and under no circumstances should you be discriminated against for who you like.
I may sound like a broken record here (since many people have also said this), but I am perfectly okay with the addition of LGBT characters into the game. On the other hand, I kind of preferred the way that BHVR was handling it before (just leaving it up to the player's imagination), since in my opinion, leaving anything to the player's imagination helps them connect to the characters more (Just to note: this isn't exclusive to sexuality). Ultimately, it's something that won't affect me too much since I tend to only vaguely follow the lore of characters.
However, I feel like this is a case of Forced Diversity vs. Natural Diversity, and that's what is making people a little bit concerned. As I already said, I am perfectly okay with the addition of LGBTQ characters, but I also want to make sure that these new characters bring more to the table other than just being LGBTQ.
Remember the "All female heroes" scene from Avengers: Endgame? A lot of people criticized that for being strictly for PR, and not actually progressing the plot in anyway. The same thing sort of worries me here. I don't want another case of "this is here strictly for diversity purposes". A character's sexuality should be a characteristic, not their entire character.
My point is, LGBTQ people are just like anyone else, and I am perfectly okay with more LGBTQ characters in the game. However, if more were to be added, they should be represented as more than vessels of their sexuality. Otherwise, it would seem like forced diversity.
Pro tip: sexual orientation is not a choice.
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@MadArtillery said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1346887#Comment_1346887
So am I and it's not like it doesn't bleed over a lot past the border. Pride month ends up happening just as much here as the states.
They have pride month in Quebec? Huh.
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If the killer literally admitted to it, that's an easy ban. It's like a thief walking into the police station and saying "Hey, I robbed someone. Well, see ya".
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@MadArtillery said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1346857#Comment_1346857
Honestly I hate pride month. Having an entire month dedicated to how different you are kinda sucks. Having companies spontaneously declare characters gay on pride month for publicity is just plain irritating. Makes it blatant that it's just corporate.
BHVR is Canadian.
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@Bovinity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1346824#Comment_1346824
What a dumb question. I expected better.
Besides, I already explained why I find the statement disappointing. Go read up on concepts like rainbow-washing.
There are no stupid questions.
BHVR makes public announcements all the time. Like every other company, they have someone (or multiple someones) to draft and publish them. Why are you only making a big deal out of it now?
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@thefallenloser said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1346356#Comment_1346356
Steven Universe lol
The show that famously had many of its scenes censored in certain countries?
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@SpaceCoconut said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1346656#Comment_1346656
I'll believe that they support minorities when I see an Indigenous Person as a Survivor in their game. IPs are notoriously discriminated against in Canada and since BHVR is based in Canada, that would show more support for diversity than supporting lgbtq+ during pride month.
For reference on the topic, particularly the Indigenous Rights section:
https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2020/country-chapters/canada
All in my opinion of course.
Call me crazy, but given the history of indigenous people after settlers met them, putting them in a situation where they're doomed to be brutally killed forever might not exactly be the best way to include indigenous people.
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@Bovinity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1346812#Comment_1346812
What decision?
Like I said, just doing it. Not having legal draft up the most corporate-sounding statement ever and putting it on social media to announce, "Hey, now that it's June, we thought we'd let you know what a good company we are!!"
It's why members of the gay community are often the first to call out companies for simply "Rainbow-Washing" during the month of June rather than actually being supportive.
And yes, I'm sure every individual at BHVR is a fine person. But companies usually end up being less than the sum of it's parts when it comes to human issues.
BHVR has made announcements before. Why is this one making you upset?
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Isn't that the game that's currently infected with hackers?
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@Ghostwithaface said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1346776#Comment_1346776
Yeah behaviour i think will handle it better, due to being able to learn from others that did it poorly or these who did it correctly. Since well to bring up manga. They have a whole genre of boy's love and girl's love. Lots of quality stories that handle it rather well from japan. Which in both of these cases, use new original characters to tell a story and thanks to quality story telling it works. For they handle them like everyone else. Write a character who happens to be x and bang. It works. For the character is just treated like a character.
I think BHVR will handle it better simply because they employ LGBT people. If you want a woman to be written correctly, you hire a woman. If you want an L/G/B/T character to be written correctly, you hire an L/G/B/T person.
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@Bovinity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1346793#Comment_1346793
I literally never said that anyone would "ONLY" be able to play a character.
That was never said, at any point.
Good job projecting the strawman part onto me, though.
I'd say the same thing to people who say, "I can play X now that I'll know I'm being represented!"
Did you just...not play anyone before?
Sure sounds like that's what you said.
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@Bovinity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1346784#Comment_1346784
Because it's just cynical marketing and pandering.
They don't actually care, but they want credit for caring. That's why tome fragments about Dave and his boyfriend didn't just appear to fit into the character, but rather BHVR took the opportunity to have legal draft up the most corporate sounding "We like inclusion now that it's June, guys." statement ever.
Don't get me wrong, if some people are made happy by it, then that's great. But do not look to Corporate America for your heroes and role models and representation. There are plenty real, genuine, heroes out there taking real action. If you want people to look up to, look no further than them. Not some hand-crafted, sanitized, token fictional character shoved into a game for Woke Cred.
Show me one person who said they were looking to "Corporate America" (BHVR is Canadian, just so you know) for their heroes and rolemodels.
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@Bovinity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1346774#Comment_1346774
Oh, yes, no one said those precise words.
Just ignore that people have said or intimated basically the same thing. But no, not those exact words.
You got me good.
Nobody said "basically the same thing". Some people said they would enjoy playing some characters more (meaning they already enjoyed playing those characters) if they could relate to them more. You said some people were saying they would only be able to play some characters if they could relate to them to begin with, which is blatantly false.
You made a strawman argument. Own it, apologize, get past it.
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@Bovinity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1346761#Comment_1346761
Guy over on page 3 mentioned something to the effect of how it'll be nice to have a gay survivor when they choose to play survivor.
Some people are very much prone to identifying with characters, personalities, figures, and so on. Other people aren't. No one in DbD "represents" me, regardless of color, gender, orientation, etc.
Besides, it's a pretty trivial thought process to follow. Changes like this are only made this explicitly because companies know some people look to fictional characters for representation. It's the point I was making in the first post that you dismissed.
That's not what you said. This is what you said:
I'd say the same thing to people who say, "I can play X now that I'll know I'm being represented!"
Did you just...not play anyone before?
Show me one person who said that they can play X now that they'll know they're being represented.
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@MadArtillery said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1346753#Comment_1346753
Highly doubt you'd see complaints if it's a gay ex either. That's as previously stated an actual part of a characters history and gives a reason to bring it up if it's going into that part of the backstory. Honestly haven't seen anything about relationships at all so far but haven't gotten through all the archives yet. It's when it's brought up just because I hate.
I'm sorry, but if you highly doubt you'd see complaints about a gay couple, you just haven't been paying attention to this thread.
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@Bovinity said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1346752#Comment_1346752
I'd say the same thing to people who say, "I can play X now that I'll know I'm being represented!"
Did you just...not play anyone before?
Show me one person who's saying that.
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@MadArtillery said:
I'm very confused why'd they'd bother bringing up what the characters are sexually attracted to. Leave it up to the weird fanfics n stuff imo. Far too often characters get turned into just some stereotype where their identity is litterally just their sexuality. Unless something in particular romantic comes up it's as irrelevant as it is for 90% of everyone else you meet in life.
I mean, they mention exes in lore all the time. Never saw any complaint about those. Then again, those were all heterosexual couples...
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@Sonzaishinai said:
I personally don't care about characters or people's sexual orientation
But if it makes people able to connect with a character better and able to enjoy the game better i don't see a problem with it
All the more power too them
Finally, someone who says they don't care and actually means it.
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Exactly, it makes no difference, so why are some people getting all worked up about this?
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@MiniPixels said:
I personally think they should've just kept leaving it up to the players imagination, obviously with the exception of licensed characters, defining an original characters sexuality heavily complicates the whole finding someone you relate to thing and decreases your options if your gay and or straight, this then brings up the problem of balancing the number of gay and straight characters in the game and just overall screws everyone over. I would like the inclusion of more flamboyant characters and personalities, but they shouldn't outright confirm a characters sexuality in order to keep the peace in the community.
How does knowing more about a character make it more difficult to relate to them? Also, why do you want gay stereotypes, but no actual gay people?
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@Pulsar said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1346517#Comment_1346517
What he seems to be saying is that it is foolish to pander and retcon existing characters. Just make new one's X sexuality, that way it fits into their backstory better.
What character has been confirmed as heterosexual? Not hinted at or implied, but blatantly confirmed.
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@MichaelAMyers said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1346695#Comment_1346695
Lore is just text.....it has nothing to do with the gameplay.
the concept of what I said didn't truly set in....they are doing it now all within this span for Marketing to the LGBT community and you just learned about this one tweet? thats alright but from what people are telling me it's just PR/Pandering.
this is all I got to say to you Orion, I hope you have a nice day.
Lore has to do with the game, though. They made an announcement for the Rift and often speak of lore. Why aren't you complaining about those announcements? How about the announcements of the prizes they've received? Prizes don't have anything to do with gameplay.
Trust me, I know very well what you're saying and trying to do.
@Mikeadatrix said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1346683#Comment_1346683
And I'm saying that having an opposite-sex partner is not indicative of being anything other heterosexual.
"Indicative of" is not the same as "Confirmed as", which is what I was saying. I'm glad you agree.
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@MichaelAMyers said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1346671#Comment_1346671
Because that has to do with the actual game?....and it's different because why donate to LGBT now in this month and not every month? why market/indicate so much that you are so "LGBT" now and make this a thing?....
Lore also has to do with the game, which this is.
Why not donate to LGBT this month and then donate to other things in other months? Is there something wrong about this month? Is the weather not right?
And today I learned that one tweet is "marketing/indicating so much".
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@BigTimeGamer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1346674#Comment_1346674
the idea of kate running around with a backwards maga hat on is a good meme and would be funny
I'd rather not add real-world politics to the game.
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@Mikeadatrix said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1346676#Comment_1346676
Not every character is bisexual and that's A-OK.
-A bi dude
OK? That has nothing to do with what I'm saying. I'm saying that having an opposite-sex partner doesn't mean you're heterosexual.
-Also a bi dude
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@Mikeadatrix said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1346546#Comment_1346546
Ace is a womanizer, Sally had a husband, Frank and Julie are in a relationship, David had an ex-girlfriend, etc, etc. Orion, this is not a hill I recommend you die on.
What is bisexuality?
No hill, just pointing out that sexuality isn't just heterosexuality/homosexuality.
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@BigTimeGamer said:
i want a maga hat cosmetic for diversity
Why do you want real-world politics in the game?
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@MichaelAMyers said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1346617#Comment_1346617
Because it didn't need to be publicly mentioned as if it wasn't a pandering agenda?....I made that clear already.
They also announced they were adding a Silent Hill chapter, crossplay, EGC, and more. Have you considered that they just announce things before they do them? Why is this any different?
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@Dolls said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1346629#Comment_1346629
I never said that.. I said I dont like it when creators dont mean it. It's using people in a way...
Why not include. Just to include. Cause its the world we live in. Why does things have to be political. Care about people.. dont use people.
That is what they're doing, including just to include, but you're the one saying it's political and saying it shouldn't be done.
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@Dolls said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1346614#Comment_1346614
I don't understand your response...?
You said you didn't want inclusiveness, so let's get rid of it. All of it.
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@MichaelAMyers said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1346598#Comment_1346598
I understand the "People wanna Identify" but this is why fanfic exist...people don't have to accept the canon sexualities whatsoever.
Exactly, so why are you making such a big deal out of it?
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@Dolls said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1346303#Comment_1346303
I just personally...dont like inclusiveness if its just a gimmick. It feels so cheap to me. And can even feel falsely inclusive. Like they REALLY dont care as a creator.
Dev rolls 20 sided die
D8
*checks list*
"Kate's Queer" well..on to other things ...
Maybe its just my way of seeing things...maybe im not even explaining very well....
You're right, everyone should be transparent, neuter, and shapeless blobs. No inclusiveness for anyone. Also no cultural themes, so the maps will be empty voids.
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@Vox_Nocturne said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1346533#Comment_1346533
I don't follow. Nothing is stopping me deciding anything, so not sure what you're getting at. Could you elaborate please?
I meant @ABannedCat makes up their own stories regardless and doesn't feel constrained by lore, so why can't you do the same?
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@Mikeadatrix said:
It's June, y'all, yknow, Pride Month? I'm not surprised they're doing this because they've made it clear in the past that certain characters are a part of the LGBT+ community, all I'm saying is if they pull it off correctly, ie: not retconning previous lore and making it an added attribute and not their sole personality trait, I see no reason to complain.
Thing is, not a single piece of lore confirmed a (non-licensed) character's sexual orientation. Not one.
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@Vox_Nocturne said:
In all honesty, whilst the lore for Dwight with Rose recognises a heterosexual individual, it could also be said that it never mentioned he liked men too. Maybe he was uncertain, sought Rose, but at another point in his life (before or after - I haven't finished his lore) he realises he is bi or gay. Heck, he may end up realising he had no sexual desire at all!
I like the idea of making a character fit whatever the player wants! I'm straight, and perhaps I identify with Dwight more because of his appearance and character I imagine him with one of the girls, but equally I don't want to be told that's canon. He should be whatever anyone wants him to be, and if people prefer to see him gay or anything else, they should have the ability to do so, rather than being dictated this individual is something else.
Way better to allow your imagination to create how you wish the game to be, than be told there's no room for wriggle.
That doesn't stop @ABannedCat, so why are you letting it stop you?
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@MichaelAMyers said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1346453#Comment_1346453
I care because LGBT shouldn't be a promotional concept for things that don't determine the game itself.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1346455#Comment_1346455
The minor backgrounds for the characters were fine enough to be vague and to have fans explore.
That's not what you said, though. You said you didn't care about a character's race or sexual orientation.
@Dead_by_Gadfly said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1346471#Comment_1346471
This is simply false. Id like something that stays out of politics and social agendas altogether. Dbd was that
There are no politics or social agendas here, just more lore.