Omputin
Omputin
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@Peanits said:
70 perk tiers, yes, you'd only be given one bonus prestige.
Does this change also mean that P1 level 1 will become P3 after the update?
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Anyone know when the update is dropping?
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It’s so interesting that they say the grind is reduced but then also significantly reduce BP gains, add prestige tax and rise the level needed to unlock teachables. It’s like BHVR wants to say that they addressed the grind without actually addressing it. My theory is that they actually want the game to be as grindy as possible without the players actually quitting because of it.
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@Seraphor said:
I would say forcing new players to unlock BBQ/WGLF before anything else was a punishment.
Also "you gain half the BP now" is false. Unless you're assuming everyone runs BBQ/WGLF every game, always gets 4 stacks, and nobody ever plays a BP offering.
You're not always running those perks, especially as survivor (11% use rate for WGLF), and you're not always getting 4 stacks. As soon as you throw an Escape Cake/Survivor Pudding into the mix, the BBQ/WGLF contribution is reduced to 33%. Add party streamers, event cakes or bound envelopes and it shrinks even further.
On average, you're only getting about 25% out of BBQ, and less out of WGLF. And that's what you're going to be getting as a minimum from the new role incentive bonus.
Your calculations are bit optimistic. On average you are not gonna have BPS/Cake offering so BBQ would still be around half of your bloodpoints.
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@jesterkind said:
While I agree that Twins need some love (that they'll hopefully be getting soon enough, thank god), I think it's missing the point a little to say the cooldown should only be for punishing a mistake. The point of the nerfs was to stop Victor from slugging, which requires something for after he succeeds in downing someone.
Now, in my opinion, you should be able to swap to Charlotte during that cooldown. That is the only change his post-down cooldown needs, as far as I'm concerned, and the other aspects of Twins should get more focus.
Also, obviously Deathslinger needed nerfs, we don't gain anything from pretending otherwise.
Did he tho? Wasn't slinger just a middle of the pack killer at best even before the nerfs.
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No way should they nerf such a medicore killer. He needs buffs if anything.
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Brace yourself for the next patch. Grind is about to become even worse.
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Inb4 they remove the 50k prestige cost and then say they fixed the problem. I can guarantee they are gonna pull some dirty move like that.
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That combo doesn’t work. You can’t use pop on a regressing gen.
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I guess their silence makes it pretty clear that this wasn't just a misunderstanding but a deliberate move. It's just sad that a p2p game has to keep up such an artificial grind which resembles more the likes of a f2p live service game than a paid one.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3050153#Comment_3050153
To tackle your points separately:
1: At no point did I say there was no reason to want them. You called them core mechanics, and I was reminding you that they are not core mechanics at all, they are expressly optional. You don't need them to start playing, which was another thing you suggested was necessary. The grind for wanting them got shorter anyway; you have far more control over getting tier 1, and if you're prestiging your main, getting tiers 2 and 3 got much easier.
2: As long as my electricity bill was in fact 75% lower, I wouldn't care where those savings were incurred. That's the actual analogy here; it's like your electricity company saying your bill will be 75% lower and then you pointing to a specific use of your electricity that went up slightly instead of focusing on the actual final number. As I said above, it is the overall grind, for everyone, that was reduced.
But it's not overall. Overall reduction of 75% would be something like making earining BP 4x faster or cutting bloodweb costs to 1/4. Saying it's 75% reduction is disingenuous if it only applies to one very speific case which hardly anyone is going for.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3049961#Comment_3049961
That's kind of my point, though- should it be considered a "punishment" when all that's really happening is interacting unfavourably with a mechanic you don't want to engage with fully?
If the intent is to encourage variety for easier levelling, is it actually a bad thing, or somehow a mark of failure, if not following that encouragement makes things a little bit harder for you?
But it kinda is punishment. Leveling and earning perks in this game is already unbearably slow. Making that even slower is not encouraging no matter how you look at it. Why does p2p game need f2p mmo levels of grind in the first place?
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@Viskod said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3049649#Comment_3049649
New players will have it easier than before, since perks are automatically given to everyone at P1. Once you P1 the people whose perks you want, you have the perks. No grinding levels to "find" the perks you want first in a blood web. You have them, the grind is over.
What do you mean? You have to put extra 550k bp to get them to prestige 1 instead of level 40. In exchange you get their perks at tier 1. Does not seem worth it especially if you only want those perks to your main since you still have to find those missing tiers with bloodweb RNG.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3049553#Comment_3049553
Considering I played probably 3 times as much during the event than I do usually, which was usually 4-5 flans per game, and usually try to use a 100% BP offering every game otherwise (BPS, Escape Cake, Survivor Pudding, old anniversary cakes), plus then there's other players doing the same occasionally.
I'd say I probably get more value out of BP offerings than I do BBQ, which isn't a guaranteed +100%.
It’s true that those offering infact do bring more value than BBQ when used since they are guaranteed but the problem is that they are so rare that you can’t reliably get or use them.
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3049468#Comment_3049468
"Also do note that i am excluding BP offerings, if i included them the percentages will increase even more.
TL;DR = BBQ bp bonus takes up 30-45%% of your BP earnings, this increases a lot once you bring good offerings and play well"
You mean Decrease.
If you bring BP offerings, the percentage of your BP attributed to BBQ will decrease.
Example:
You score 30,000 BP.
BBQ (if you get 4 stacks) doubles that by adding another 30,000.
Bloody Party Streamers similarly adds another 30,000.
Your total is 90,000, with 33% attributed to BBQ.
2 sets of BPS would give you 120,000, now BBQ is 25%.
Once you factor in offerings, dailies, challenges, codes, monthly reset, bloodhunts and events, you'll find BBQ probably accounts for about 25% or less, with WGLF closer to 10%.
Guess what; the new role incentive bonus provides a minimum of +25%
How often do you have a game where you have flan or BPS offering let alone 2 outside of events? In most normal games BBQ provides half of your bloodpoints. This change is directly cutting your BP gains in half which seems weird if they actually wanted to reduce the grind.
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But why are they reducing bloodpoint gains in the first place? Wasn’t the goal to reduce the current grind not increase it?
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I think that's how BHVR wants the game to be played. That's the feeling I get when I look at the current balance of the game.
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@EntitySpawn said:
Title.
I'm not saying blight is too strong or anything but I feel these 2 aspects boost him way higher than anything else and I'm curious if others agree?
While all platforms can slide of objects and help get hits round certain corners, tiles etc. Only PC players seem to be able to go past the 90° flick without.
(Encase some players dont know you can slide off objects, while doing so turn your camera to face the object while still sliding which gives you a preemptive turn and then after the slide you can swing for an additional 90°)
Now this has been said to be getting changed/fixed as apparently the devs say its unintended but that now makes the gap between PC and console players even more different as pc players can still bypass the 90° cap.
Personally I dont care if its kept or removed, I just ask all platforms are made equal no matter what. Especially when the ability to flick more is stronger than anything else as it gets hits you normally wouldn't get.
I shouldn't be able to verse a blight and tell which platform they are playing on because they arent equal. I wonder if the devs can see which platforms perform better which each killer
As long as consoles are limited to controllers they are gonna be at disadvantage compared to pc. There is no way to limit mouse and keyboard to do only thing that controllers can without making the game super clunky to play on pc. We should hope they add mouse and keyboard support for consoles as well to even the playingfield.
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@Viskod said:
I'm happy with the new changes because I have a friend who wants to get into the game but its going to wait until this update.
All they'll have to do is get the characters that have the perks they want, prestige them once and there, done. They know all the perks they want then, and can just start leveling the person they want to play as normal and get right into games with us with the perks they want to use without having to worry about wasting tons of BP on bloodweb RNG.
Going to cut the grind down so much.
I’m sorry to tell you but this new system is gonna be way worse for you ”friend”. Not only is he gonna get BP a lot slower rate but he’s also gonna require a lot more BPs to reach presitge 1 instead of level 40. Your argument about bloodweb RNG doesn’t apply to new players since they got so few perks unlocked to begin with.
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@Chaos999 said:
I agree with you. Honestly I think people simply doesn't like it when they perceive they taking something away from them.
The logic is something like:
Pre patch, no BBQ: regular grind
Pre patch, with BBQ: 2x faster grind
Post patch as intended: 2.5x faster grind
Post patch with BBQ untouched: 5x faster grind?
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..
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Wait, give me back my BP bonus perks!!!
They don't realize they were prisoners of a perk or else and that a lot of players did felt that way, they wanted to run other perks, but alas, they just didn't want to renounce the BP gain.
Personally I like this aspect of the patch and hope it go's through.
But the thing is that the new system without BBQ is a lot slower compared to the current system for most people. I don’t think anyone would have an issue with it if they actually reduced the grind.
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@gilgamer said:
Red ranks don't exist anymore my guy, your rank isnt used for matchmaking anymore so it means nothing, so really the problem is that its very difficult to get a perfect game with MMR
Nothing to do with matchmaking. Your grade has an direct effect on how hard those emblems are to get.
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People aren’t happy because doubling the grind is not the answer when them game is already so grindy. They should have doubled bp gains to compensate for the change.
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@WesCravenFan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3042672#Comment_3042672
Unless I read it wrong the Shrine is now targeted. You will be able to just pick the perk you want and be done with it. So, if you want Blast Mine but never wanna mess with Leon you can just straight up BUY Blast Mine as an unlock.
From what I understand and seen on PTB there is still gonna only be 4 perks per week and on top of that they are gonna cost a lot more shards.
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@Beatricks said:
Yep. And for anyone mindlessly repeating that you can now hear her phasing so what? She'll still beat you to the loop with her speed advantage.
Isn’t killer supposed to have an advantage in a 1 vs 1 situation.
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@Jejune said:
If you wanted to nerf iron will. You could have made it so you get 100% quieter for 30 seconds everytime you get injured. (Amount gets reduced by 5 for everytime you go from healthy to injured)
Because now nobody will use iron will and on top of it they will have to rework spirit again.
Why would they need to rework spirit? Didn’t they add directional sound to her phasing recently?
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What do you mean? Remiving perk tiers would have been a lot bigger reduction to the grinding. This new system also misses the mark in regards to helping new players out.
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@keepingitril said:
"They removed the bo from bbq and that other perk for no reason."
They removed it because it's poor game and perk design. Perks are adaptations to game mechanics, not the scoring of said game mechanics.
It's the single best thing this update brings for the overall health of the game and should have happened long ago.
Then why did’t they add the bloodpoint bonus to basekit? Heavily nerfing bloodpoint gains in an already grindy game isn’t the play.
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This 100%. Now many more people will realise how much worse this new progression system is gonna be.
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Dredge need a buff imo. At least more lockers should spawn as base when playing him.
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@Thusly_Boned said:
If you are primarily concerned with getting your characters fully perked up, the grind is going to be waaaaay easier. And I may be wrong, I feel like more people fall into that group than those for whom the bloody cosmetics and charms are most important.
You're never going to please all the people, but I feel like this does a good job of addressing the major grind issues for most people.
It’s gonna be better if you want all character perked out but significantly worse if you only want to unlock perks for handful of characters.
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I doubt it. They seem to be looking for every opportunity to increase the grind.
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@TAG said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3024696#Comment_3024696
If you only play one character, for example, you can get level 1 of every perk on that character without having to hope you luck into it on the bloodweb by just prestiging the character whose perks you want. You're also not wasting any bloodpoints unlocking a character's teachables. That's a reduction right there.
Is that better tho? Firstly you need to reach level 50 instead of 40 like right now. Also you need to do that while earning a lot less bloodpoints as of right now. I don’t think getting 3 tier 1 perks are gonna offset those extra levels and lower BP gains.
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It’s more grindy if you don’t play every single character in the game. This update is gonna suck for most players in terms of grind.
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Ironically this whole grind reduction is gonna end up doing the exact opposite.
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@Tizzle said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3020347#Comment_3020347
If you want the perks on a single character Prestige them 3 times (You will most likely have everything by the time you even reach Prestige 3 if you prioritize non teachable perks).
All others you only need to level to 40.
How is this so difficult to understand?
That’s the point. If you only want perks on one character it’s going to take twice as long since bp gains are gutted to ”compensate”
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@Seraphor said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3020347#Comment_3020347
So prestige them all once?
You have to get them to level 40 now anyway, so just get them to level 50 instead. Just 10 more bloodwebs. (chances are you've done this already, I know I have, I get all my survivors to 50, because leaving them at 40 just feels wrong for some reason)
This removes a third of the perk grind for the one character you do want to level up, as well as removing any bloodweb RNG as to what perks you have available when you start playing them, because they will have every perk at at least tier 1.
That might remove 1/3rd of the perk grind but if you consider that bloodpoint gains are getting cut in half to compensate then it’s clear that this update is only gonna increase the grind for most people.
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@Viskod said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3020347#Comment_3020347
Why would you Prestige every character 3 times? I'm not going to Prestige every character three times. That's insane.
I'm going to unlock the Perks I want, get them at Tier 1, and then just keep leveling Felix as normal for Items, Offerings, and Add ons, and get the level 2 and 3 Tiers of the Perks that way.
If you consider that bloodpoint gains are getting halved that’s gonna be a lot more grindy than what we have now.
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@foxsansbox said:
That's not how it works. You only have to reach prestige 1 to get everything you need on all characters.
That's will take twice as long after this change goes live.
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@Rizzo said:
I think you are confusing completionism with actual grind.
The grind reduction is aimed at giving everyone the opportunity to have all the perks unlocked on the characters of their choice, it's not about having all the characters maxed out.
Wait. Isn't this this change excalty the opposite? The 75% reduction to grind only applies if you are aiming to have all perks on all charcters. If you want to unlock all perks to a single character the grind is actually increased since bloodpoint gains are gutted.
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@Alen_Starkly said:
Removing the bloodpoint bonuses from BBQ and WGLF was one of the best things they did.
As I mentioned above, I forced myself to run BBQ on every killer and in every match, 'cause otherwise I was missing out on bloodpoints (and the grind has been horrible). I (and many others) are now free to play with different builds that don't use BBQ. (hello fun builds!)
Also, people with WGLF would often unhook right in front of the killer while using BT, or even take stupid unnecessary hits just to get WGLF stacks. The former would usually result in tunneling the unhooked person, and the latter in the WGLF person getting downed easily. Survivors would really do stupid sh*t for those stacks. Good riddance to that!
And, if there will be a need for more BP income, then it should not come from these 2 perks (and obligation to always use them!), it should come from either buffing the BP gain in general, or reducing the cost of things in bloodwebs. Of course, the grind has been reduced significantly, so whether there's a need for BP gain buff is yet to be seen. We can only speculate right now.
Everyone keeps saying that the grind is reduced significaly but they have yet to provide any changes that would do that. For most player this updates is gonna increase the grind a lot.
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I 100% agree with this post. I can only imagine that they are being disingenious on purpose and most players are not gonna question them before it’s too late.
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I hope you don’t lose them since it would suck to lose access to all of your teachables that you have already unlocked.
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@Malkhrim said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/330145/upcoming-change-will-triple-the-grind
It won't do that at all.
The only thing the tiers 7, 8 and 9. will do is to unlock the perk icons as CHARMS. You know, those tiny cosmetics that whent unnoticed every game? The same ones that are complained about in the community for being pointless? So no, you won't lose anything if you don't want to prestige up to level nine.
Levels 4, 5 and 6 only unlock those bloody cosmetics that don't even matter that much anymore since there are much better cosmetic options in the game, many of them costing iridescent shards, so you don't even have to pay for them. Others are rewarded in events.
The maximum prestige is level 100, but you don't have to go that far. Prestige beyond level 3 is only to show other players how much you leveled that character, the skins and charms are just an extra bonus for your effort. The only ACTUALLY rewarding tiers are the first three ones, and after that you won't need to grind for that perks on any other characters ever. It's an improvement. Until a while ago people were asking for the removal of perk tiers to reduce perk grind, so the devs actually DID listen to the community this time.
Removing perk tiers would have actually reduced the grind. This change won’t do much of all except cut bloodpoint gains in half thus increasing the grind.
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Sadly I think that this grind increase is 100% intentional and many players will fall for it.
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@KnotEnthusiast said:
So BHVR has announced their new reworked perk and BP system, claiming that at long last they have cut down on the grind. How wonderful! But I do have one question: who has it cut down the grind for? Cuz from what I can tell, most players will actually suffer from this new system, as long as you're striving to have complete builds. An example:
Lets say I'm John Q Newplayer, and I just installed DBD. I really like anime, want to flex that I know what the word "kanabo" means, and would like the katana I bought at my local strip mall to feel like it was worth the purchase, so I want to pick up Oni! But I want to have the option to play any way I want, so I want all of the perks on him. How hard will it be for me to do that?
Well under the old perk system, it was a heck of a feat. I had to get every killer, level up to level 40 on each one. Then take my boi Oni, and just keep leveling him until I had all perks. With the current system, that means I have to buy every perk 3 times to get the max level. Since there are 97 perks including the generics, I need to buy 291 perks. But! After level 40, I can get two perks per bloodweb, doubling my progress. So after 39 levels I have 42 perks (you get your 3 t1 perks for free), which means I have 249 to go, which I can do in 125 bloodwebs. So my final level count to unlock all of this is:
40 levels on each of the 28 killers, which is 1120. Add the 39 and 125, and you get 1284 levels. Dang, that's a grind! Now lets see how much the new system reduces it!
Now, teachables are gone, and everything is dictated by prestige. Heck yeah! So if I want all perks on my boi Oni, all I have to do is get P3 on every killer, then get the 15 levels to unlock Oni's 4 perk slots, and I'm in business. Math is pretty easy on this one, just get every single killer to P3 level 1, which is essentially level 150. So 28*150+15 equals...
4215. Thats....a lot. Way way more than 1284.
"But KnotEnthusiast!", I hear you cry, "When you get all perks on one killer, you get them on everyone!" And that is true! But all you have to do to get all perks on every killer is the 126 bloodwebs (because you got them all to level 40 for the teachable, but buying the 2 teachables cost you two perks). So if you keep doing that, then you can get all perks on 23 killers before you even get close to the same number of levels as getting all perks in the new system:
1284+126*23 = 4182 levels.
But hey, at least that's something, right? While it might be worse at first, after 24 killers you're making profit! And there's also an argument to be made that the bloodwebs from levels 1-30 are significantly less expensive than those at 50 up, reducing the effect a good bit. But there's one issue:
BBQ AND CHILI'S BONUS IS GONE.
Because of the "reduced" grind, the BP bonus from BBQ is gone. So if you were someone who ran the perk frequently (IE, literally everyone), then congrats, your BP gain has effectively halved. So all of the levels required in the new system are essentially doubled, making the total even more ridiculous. Not to mention that addons, items and offerings now essentially double in price for the same reason.
Another example: a vet player with all perks unlocked, when a new killer comes out. If you want their teachables on another killer, then you need to level them up 150 times. Whereas beforehand, it was 40 times, then whatever killer you wanted their teachables on either 5 or 6 times depending on entity RNG. So again, worse case scenario you can get the new perks on 18 killers (40+6*18 = 108) before you start reducing the grind at all, not factoring in the BBQ bonus loss.
I hope I'm missing something, because honestly this new system with the loss of the BBQ/WGLF bonus feels worse than the prior system. Plus you can no longer level one killer/survivor completely then use them to grind, you have to do everyone at once.
TL;DR: The "grind" has barely improved if at all based on the perk rework, and if you factor in the loss of BBQ or WGLF, then it has actually gotten worse.
I 100% agree that this change is only making the grind worse. They’re basically offering you a bundle and saying it’s 75% better value while simultaneously doubleing the price of things you actually want.
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I’m also worried about the whole progression rework. At first glance it looks so grindy compred to the current system.
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@Marcavecunc said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3011388#Comment_3011388
From what I understood, you lose your perks, except the ones from prestiged characters, at their prestiged level. I might be wrong but that's what I gathered from the very little information we got.
I really hope not but if true that would be a huge increase to grind. Hopefully they are not planning on doing bait-and-switch with this whole progression rework.
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I think what OP is asking is if teachable perks that are already unlocked will stay available too all his survs/killers even if he hasn’t prestiged any of them.
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@N8dog said:
Self care isn't used properly. It's fine to use it if your side is far ahead, if you're on death hook or if you are about to go and try to open or escape through the gate but if you want to use it for every injury pair it with botany. This makes it take 19.27 seconds to heal which is 3.27 seconds longer but I think 3.27 seconds extra is worth not requiring 2 people locked up doing one heal.
Idk where you are getting your numbers but self-care with botany takes 24 seconds.
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@Aven_Fallen said:
IMO the first thing which should be looked at - is it possible to do on all Platforms? If not, it should be considered an exploit and fixed. Like, anything which messes with DPI should not be in the game because it is unavailable for console players. And this already shows that it is not intended.
For the rest, I dont really know what those techs mean, I probably know what the Blight player is doing in those scenarios, but I dont know which name describes which tech. But I feel if all of those would be removed, Blight would still be an S-Tier Killer, since he still has that insane mobility and can do some stuff at Loops.
Bringing up Nurse is a weak argument IMO, just because a design failure exists and will never be fixed, does not mean that other things should stay in the game.
You can’t limit everything to be doable on a controller. That’s fault of BE for not implementing mouse and keyboard support for console version to make it fair.