Omans
Omans
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@Marik1987 said:
No, they are not. Soon the killrates will drop dramatically after Unbreakable-Basekit comes live. A lot of kills results in the Endgame Collapse thanks to a lot of slugging and thanks to a lot of Altruism by the survivor-teams.
Best example: One is hooked, all gens are done, so the killer facecamps the hook (of course, what else should he do?), then he manages to grab a survivor and drops him to secure at least a 2K, sometimes I get a 3 or even a 4K with this in the endgame with 4 hooks before the Endgame begins. This Major-Killrate-Booster-Strategy will die and so all killrates will go down at least 5% or even more, so killers are - on average - maybe at 55% and thats totally fine.
Thread can be closed.
Unbreakable-lite basekit change will have not even close to the impact you think it will.
At most it will prompt a change to the Unbreakable perk itself as it might make self-pickup a little too quick.
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By pretending she is not part of the killer roster.
Some killer concepts have been clear misses, like Hag or Trickster.
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@ProfoundEnding said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3232505#Comment_3232505
But good nurses are so few and far between. If good nurses were a majority, then her kill rate wouldn't be so low.
They are not few and far between at high MMR. Most Nurses you face there have enough knowledge of the character that her broken mechanics allow easy wins.
There are so many players at low MMR. That is why her kill rate is low.
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Honestly? Skill issue.
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She hasn't been nerfed because the devs aren't very good at game balance. It took them years to nerf keys and moris, both of which were so ridiculously OP for each side. That should tell you everything you need to know about the devs and their view on balance.
The people saying they enjoy facing nurse are players who can't gauge how good the opposing player is (or they are nurse mains). If you are skilled at the game and you enjoy facing nurse it means the nurse you are facing is less skilled than you. Period. Or you are running an equally OP tourney-level SWF.
This is compounded by the fact that Nurse requires probably the most effort/time to get decent with her. That's not to say she is the hardest killer, though. She isn't, so she certainly doesn't deserve to have the potential to dominate as hard as she does.
SWF is broken too, of course. But the main reason that Nurse is a more pressing balance issue is accessibility. The killer player is alone, so all you need to do to unlock her OP power is practice with her. To unlock the OP potential SWF has you need to have three other strong players on your team. Even one weak link makes the game super easy for a skilled killer.
The stats show that a full SWF is very rare, and as a top tier killer and survivor player myself I can say that the number of 'tournament level SWF' I have faced in public games pales in comparison to the number of Nurse players who decided they just wanted to win no matter what the other side can do.
Nurse is the most broken role in DBD right now. There are other things of course, like SWF, Maps, some perks and addons, that need to be looked at. But Nurse is the biggest balance tragedy in this game. The only thing sadder is the number of players in this thread defending such a broken character.
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Spending bloodpoints feels awful. The best QOL change they could do would be adding a button that auto-spends the web you are on.
But it has been suggested many times, and the devs never respond. Maybe they like the grind.
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The easiest and most skilless strategy for killer is also the strongest. If you play that way as killer you can beat a team of players who may be on average better than you.
However, if you play 'fair' and spread hooks which is a far more skilled way to play, you are only putting yourself at a disadvantage, and it allows survivors who may be on average less skilled than you to escape even if perhaps they shouldn't have been able to.
It is a serious design flaw in the game, one that the devs either don’t know how to fix, or don't even realize it is an issue.
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Yeah, it is probably the most unhealthy killer perk right now. And, no surprise, it is in most killer's loadouts.
Similar to that Hyperfocus combo for survivors. Too much upside.
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@almofan1001 said:
Why do survivors insist on saying that camping and tunneling is "0 skill" "braindead" "bot"?
As far as I can see, it's infinitely times more skillful than holding M1 on a generator and talking to your Twitch chat in background while checking your monitor every 10-15 seconds for a skill check. You don't even need to watch out for killer most of the time as terror radius gives you an indication when you actually need to start paying attention. Hitting good skill checks can be mastered after 10 minutes of the gameplay time. That's all the attention span and skill it takes to do your objective while the reward is immense.
At least when you tunnel you need to end the chase fast. You take a big risk and if you fail, you get punished heavily by basically losing the game on the spot. A sole survivor literally gets a chance to win a game for their team on their own. A successful tunnel is much more skilful activity than holding a button on a generator.
When you camp, you need to constantly look for other survivors, don't hit the wrong person, time your M1 to grab, avoid body blocks, and make sure to watch all angles so you don't miss anyone coming for rescue. It's at least 5x more actions for a killer to do (successfully) in order to gain benefit from it.
So please, survivors, when you complain about no-skill gameplay, have a bit of self-reflection. Your objective (generators) is literally the lowest risk, lowest skill and highest reward in the game to exist on both sides.
This is the worst take i've ever seen on these forums. And I've seen people say nurse is fine.
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Map offerings used by either side shouldn't be a thing.
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It is a bit bugged right now. 2 times now I have grabbed an injured survivor at the gate and I pick up the survivor, but the game says they have escaped. Meanwhile I am holding them and can take them to a hook. I don't get the kill, though.
If they were at the gate and left on their screen but not on mine due to ping I would understand, but this is before they are at the barrier, I slam them against the wall and it says they escape. Rather frustrating.
It isn't every time, though. Other times I have grabbed them and they don’t escape, and I hook them.
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A full SWF is the minority of all possible configurations.
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@Devilishly_Rowdy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3205010#Comment_3205010
Half of those are probably rage quits lol
Those are not included.
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People in this thread complaining about a killer they don’t even play just to have something to complain about.
The devs already said Twins are being changed.
Come on, there are actual real balance issues in this game to talk about like Nurse, Prove Thyself, SWF still being able to stack the same perks, healthy hook grabs, Blight's broken addons, that new busted quick gen perk combo (don't know the english name), first hook camping/tunneling being the best 'strat' even though it is the least skillful 'strat', hackers, map issues on both sides.
Don't pretend to care about Twins just because your "side" got a "nerf."
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@SuzuKR said:
This is literally one of the worst ideas BHVR has ever put out.
Devs, if this poster says the idea is bad, it's probably at least decent-good.
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@FizzieSprite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3203118#Comment_3203118
You got 4 and a half thousand hours on killer and have been playing since early release? man i'd love to see some proof to back that up.
"two hooks within hooking distance"
too many times I've played as nurse or huntress and had no hooks close enough to reach. I'm not running Agi + iron grasp every match cause I need other perks instead. Don't try and show up strangers on the internet, you just make yourself look like a clown. The fact of the matter is this: all players have different experiences, most share experiences. the most shared experience is that there are multiple hook deadzones that survivors constantly exploit, especially if someone's dead and there was only one hook in that corner or if you're on midwich and a hook spawns downstairs in the hallway but not upstairs. "I've got more playtime in killer alone than you do overall" you're not all mighty and powerful, kid, lets calm down x3
Not quite more hours just on killer, but not too far off.
Are you doing a little dance for a few seconds after you pick up the survivor before you look for the hook? Not being able to reach even a single hook is a very rare occurance. Having 2 or 3 within your reach is the norm. 4-5 if you use the perks mentioned.
Currently the game map is the only map with any real hook spawn issues.
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@FizzieSprite said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202681#Comment_3202681
uh oh, someone's never played killer before
I've got more playtime in killer alone than you probably do overall. Try again.
So many players on these forums with very little game experience talking like they know what they are talking about...
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The problem is these killers got to where they are by playing that way. They are super boosted and shouldn't be at the mmr they are currently at, but if they play any differently they will start getting trounced by survivors who are better than the killer. Camp/tunneling the first hook every game gives them a chance to play against better players and still maybe win.
It essentially turns it into a 1v1 game, killer vs survivor being tunneled. Super boring playstyle, but it is the strongest way to play right now, and there are lots of killer players on this forum who need to win no matter how balanced a match is, so...here we are.
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@ad19970 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202129#Comment_3202129
I seriously doubt that Unbreakeable will make it to the live game with 100% increased recovery speed. The basekit 45 seconds unbreakeable will be very good for the game, but I also agree that the buffed Unbreakeable will be a huge problem. And I kind of doubt the devs won't notice that in the ptb.
Here we are. A post that makes sense.
Too many people saying the sky is falling, but in the vast majority of games for killers who play properly not much will change.
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@Carth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202681#Comment_3202681
The fact that you don't think a hook deadzone is a thing or sabo plays benefit from this speaks volumes. "Lol survivors playing smart and using perks intelligently? No dude!! They're all gonna swarm the pallet and you just get them to drop it and pick the guy up! EZ ez!!!"
Just for fun please describe what to do vs the new unbreakable + soul guard with another survivor saboing the hook after around 8 seconds of travel.
Ah, you’re one of those killer mains who thinks every match is a 4-man sweat squad on comms. Enough said.
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@Carth said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3202149#Comment_3202149
Sabo plays? Boil over? Hook deadzones? Or are you a magical killer player who never encounters any of the above?
Sabo plays and hook deadzones? What..? There are almost always at least 2 hooks in hooking distance. Boil over? Lol.
A couple areas will need to be looked at/altered, but all the doom and gloom is really unwarranted.
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Apart from SWF's who go down on a pallet, and Unbreakable probably being a bit too fast, this change is almost wholly good.
It's nice to see a bunch of killer-only players telling on themelves and their playstyles, though.
I probably have more hours in killer alone than many players on this forum have in the game, and apart from what I said above, this is a good thing.
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3200364#Comment_3200364
You do realize slugging is a major part for Nurse, Spirit, Blight, Oni, Twins, Plague during power, Myers during T3, and any killer when multiple survivors are nearby right?
If you are playing against survivors who don't pick up a slugged teammate before 45 seconds is up then you don't need to be slugging them at all because they aren't very good.
Good to know that's how you play your nurse, though.
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Interesting changes. Having every game end with a slug for the 4k is obnoxious, so if this change reduces that then it is a good change.
It is very rare that a good killer should ever need to slug for more than 45 seconds. Only thing I can think of is if you are facing a sweat squad and one survivor goes down under a pallet. Now, if you pick that survivor up you get hit with the pallet, if you don't because of survivors circling, you don't get the hook.
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Are there any plans to streamline this process. I got tired of doing it that way a long time ago. There are way too many cheaters for players to spend their own time repeatedly reporting that way.
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@foxsansbox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3199635#Comment_3199635
If you can't read this thread and understand why I made that tongue 'n cheek comment then I can't fix your comprehension issues.
A trend others have experienced with you, I'm sure.
Wasn't very good as a tongue' n cheek comment, and I already know your stance on Nurse hate.
Good try, though...I guess?
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@Roaroftime said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3199929#Comment_3199929
so basically what little solo queue players have left to make their rounds tolerable, nerf it
The ones using those things to an extreme are not solo queue players, they are swf.
I think swf should be nerfed, solo buffed, as well as all those things listed above.
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3199902#Comment_3199902
You are exemplifying why education is so important. You claim dumbassery about cherry-picking when you don’t even understand controlling for factors is important in statistics. Rate of education in the US have gone up over time. So did the number of people in the US dying. Your logic is like saying the increase in education is killing people.
Please take a stats class before you potentially endanger someone in the future with your ignorance.
I don't think you actually read people's posts. You just need a sounding board to bounce whatever ideas you are thinking off of.
You seem pretty hung up on defending killers (and nurse) no matter what, but like for the strangest things. Killers were undeniably buffed in many ways. Survivors weren't. The kill rate went up. My experience at high mmr shows a higher kill rate on average, as do the posts of basically everyone on this forum (except you, apparently). You don't need a stats class to understand what that means..?
Really hoped you wouldn't push it with the name-calling, though. Now the forum mods will come and shut down this post.
Nice example, though! Next time try to come up with one that is actually accurate and/or relevant.
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Gens too fast? At times, yes.
Toolboxes? Should be nerfed along with medkits.
Brand new part? Yeah, nerf it.
Prove Thyself and that new gen speed perk? Yeah, get 'em.
Cheaters? Huge problem, but devs don't care.
But, Maps...? Ridiculously survivor sided? What??? Some can be, yes. And just as many can favor killer. I spawned onto a macmillan map today with 5 gens on one side. Two on the other side. It was the free-est killer 4k I've ever seen. I'm not saying many Maps aren't bad. A lot of them are really bad. But bad for both sides. Spawning into a map and having literally nothing on a whole portion of the map is a common occurance. And especially with killers spamming call of the Brine and explosion (don't know the english name of the perk) it is clear how either side can take advantage of how bad many Maps are.
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@SuzuKR said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3199883#Comment_3199883
It’s called "stats that result from combining every single possible factor are next to meaningless". Every single skill level, all regional playstyle differences, every killer, solo/SWF/any mix thereof, all builds, all maps, all tile/gen/etc spawn RNG, etc. Literally one of the most fundamental principles of statistics is that you need to control for other factors so they don’t impact your results when testing any given factor.
But yes, go ahead and make it about "us vs them" stupidity I guess.
Didn't mention or even imply "us vs them."
I'm disappointed you say that, too. I've been very consistent in my posts about balance for survivors and killers.
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@StarLost said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3199881#Comment_3199881
Not so much 'more', more like 'structured differently'.
I really like the idea of rewarding people for sticking it out on hook, because holy crap do people just suicide or DC on a dime.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3199883#Comment_3199883
Be nice.
What he's saying is that the median kill stats BHVR gives us can't be taken as gospel because a lot of that comes from extremely new players (killer has an easy time of it at low MMRs). This is 100% correct.
With a caveat, of course..new players were playing before the patch, and new players are playing after the patch. The increase will undoubtedly show an increase at all mmr levels. Like, without a doubt.
It was more a dig at that poster, though - he spends a lot of time making false narratives.
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@SuzuKR said:
The 61% number means basically nothing anyways.
"only the numbers that fit my bias/narrative mean something." all other numbers mean nothing.
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@AcelynnBen said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3199841#Comment_3199841
thank mr/mrs nurse main i will take your advice to heart and hook everyone as a D tier killer main ty <3
Definitely not a Nurse main.
End game collapse is already favorable to killer now that many survivor perks are deactivated in EGC.
As long as you don't hook too close to the gate (which you shouldn't be doing anyways), or have already killed at least one survivor (which in the majority of cases you should have done at that point anyways), then you are already all but guaranteed a kill in EGC. More, if you brought STBFL.
You might want to rethink how you view EGC if you think it is unfair towards killers. Or, take STBFL if you want a 100 percent guaranteed kill in EGC.
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Unfortunately for a lot of killers on here they are super boosted. Camp first hook, tunnel first hook. Rinse/repeat.
Playing that way allows lower-skilled players to get better results than their skill should give them.
Survivors are Plenty boosted too, usually by SWFs. Weaker member who should not be escaping are escaping due to being hard carried.
Many killers on here don't seem to want to accept that they are boosted at the role. Fact is, unless you are playing against tournament level SWFs on comms then the reason you are losing 'easily' is a skill issue.
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And one more thing, put all the survivors on hooks if all the generators get finished.
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The Korean server has been plagued by hackers for *years* now. It doesn't get better. Devs either aren't capable or aren't interested. Lots of time to make new outfits, though!
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Hitting hit by a huntress shot can feel bad, but getting hit by a lunge by Nurse that looks nowhere near you feels much worse. And even if you dodge well, Nurse can just do a spin while blinking and hit you anyways. Getting hit while you are behind her is so frustrating.
People who defend nurse in her current state either don't understand balance or enjoy the results that come from playing a busted killer.
Either way, it will be so enjoyable reading their responses when nurse finally gets what is coming to her.
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@Kirahie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3195532#Comment_3195532
Legion was factually stronger when she could down people with her power. Nurse blinks have counter play.
Factually wrong.
@foxsansbox said:
Nurse hate has died down so hard that even the thread about Nurse hate has gone off the rails.
What..? Nurse is as hated as ever. I see another thread on the front page, and undoubtedly more are coming.
You've had some time to reflect and get better at the game and you still think nurse is fine...that's disappointing.
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That's what they said. Sure doesn't seem like it though. Maybe they increased the chance better items will appear by 0.05 percent every bloodweb.
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Winning as nurse is like getting a 50 meter head start in a 100 meter race.
Nurse mains in here acting like they are the ones starting further back.
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@FriendlyKiller said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3192468#Comment_3192468
If Nurse gets nerfed which killer will survivors start on after that? If I recall correctly it went Legion,Nurse, Spirit, Deathslinger, Hillbilly(for some reason) and now we're back to Nurse.
As long as survivors lose games there's always going to be demands to nerf this killer or that one. I honestly don't even pay it attention anymore.
Where were all these demands to nerf post nerf Nurse when Spirit and Deathslinger were the flavor of the month? She's literally the same character.
Don't make stories. There hasn't been a time when nurse hasn't been the strongest killer (OP), and there hasn't been a time when nurse hasn't been complained about.
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@hatchetChugger said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/347094/nurse-hate
y'all have never even tried to learn how to play against her. Just cry and moan until your 'problem' is fixed. The only thing all this complaining is doing is producing more complaining, which amplifies how strong she is to an absurd degree. This constant 'Nurse OP, gg go next' mentality is only harming your own experience, fun, and skill. Learn how to play against a non-M1 killer and stop treating every nurse match as a hopeless endeavor that will only end in a 4k.
If you actually put in effort to play against a nurse, your dbd experience would be way more enjoyable.
Players much better, with way more hours, and more experience in the game than you realize Nurse is not good for balance. You should just listen to them.
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It has bugged me for a long time that very often the more optimal play is to just do nothing, and sit by the hook.
It can, and very often is, rewarded way more than actually skillfully downing multiple survivors as killer.
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Topic: true
Also true: it is no wonder solo survivors try to do gens as fast as possible, because even a second not on a gen means a full team wipe because the killer decided to hard tunnel the first hooked player and the resulting 3v1 is an easy 4k for even a bad killer.
This game has balance issues.
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Not when simply taking your hand off the gen for whatever reason (maybe to avoid a pain res, maybe to heal a teammate, maybe to go make a save, etc) already has such a high chance of causing an explosion that you just have to accept.
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Which part?
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@GrimoireWeiss said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3192768#Comment_3192768
It really isn't. I've been playing this game since 2018 and the only time Nurse was consistently complained about was before her rework a few years ago.
https://youtu.be/XZTHHELEHrA put on 21:30, just an example of a content creator saying she was fine not too long ago.
That very video: "nurse is one of the biggest problems dbd has, she gatekeeps many of the developers decisions."
I've been around just as long as you.
She has always been viewed as too strong, so....
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@GrimoireWeiss said:
That's just how the DBD community works, a few months ago it was Blight and his addons, then Artist and DMS, then Bubba and his facecamping, then AFK Pig, then Legion after his rework, then Nurse. Now we're in a transition phase where we're all searching for a killer to hate, wouldn't be surprised to see something like Condemned Sadako here.
It has pretty consistently been nurse for years and years. There has never been a time where nurse hasn't been complained about, deservedly so, of course.
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@danielmaster87 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3192626#Comment_3192626
I don't know where to begin. You think Wraith and Freddy can beat survivors, even under the best circumstances, that Nurse and Blight would lose to? Forget it. And you only go for 12 hooks and are 'confident' at killer? Sure you are. My point still stands that survivors' mistakes and misplays boosts the kills the killer gets, not killer being like "imma camp here" and suddenly they get 2 more kills just like that. You even admit that it's hard for killer to go for 12 hooks, which is entirely contradictory to what you said at the beginning, so I really don't know what your stance is. Is killer easy or is it hard? It can't be both.
A common theme I keep seeing with y'all is that you're survivor-centric in your thinking, in all the wrong ways. "Survivors can't do much against X strategy." Yes they can. "X shouldn't exist because it ruins the game for the survivors." By 'ruin' you mean make it harder to win. Survivors don't have to put in much work to get good results consistently. Killers have to put in tons of work and get failure consistently.
It was pretty clear to follow. Going for 12 hooks as killer is like cleansing all totems as survivor, opening all chests, doing all the other little things survivors can do and still expecting to 'win.' I'd much rather play that way, winning chases through skill and mind games and 'lose' a few more games than I would if I got my first kill on my third hook every game, which so many (bad) killers rely on.
You must have misunderstood about Wraith. Nurse and Blight are much better than every other killer, but saying Wraith is a killer that will struggle, or even get steam rolled, which you seem to be implying, is so far from reality.
In fact, the only way a killer can get steam rolled at any mmr if the killer is playing to 'win,' is if the survivors are a 4-stack of tournament level players. If you get rolled by anything else it means you didn't play well enough or dirty enough, or just weren't good enough (or the map/pallet/window spawns went against you...but that can happen to both sides).
I go for 12 hooks because playing the way most killers play (hard tunneling the first person hooked while proxy camping that first hook) is so, so easy, skilless, and if the devs realized it the game would be so much healthier.
The last paragraph is just wrong, so I'll just ignore it.
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@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3192610#Comment_3192610
That you want to make it harder for killers. The "arguments" you used to justify it, like players capitalizing on errors or making mistakes, could also be applied to survivors making mistakes.
Even more with challenges. Where every solo survivor has a different objective, that might be totally counterproductive. Or do you think that a survivor that has to spend 120 seconds next to the killer, without getting caught. Or using SC and escaping, or escape through the hatch contribute to the overall teamplay? Challenges is what sabotages teamplay. Salty players, that suicide/dc is what sabotages teamplay. That doesn´t mean that killer has to become harder.
In my experience the vast majority of players doing challenges will only go out of their way to do a challenge if the game is already won or lost.
I'm happy I don't get matched with players you get matched with. I almost never see this sabatoge, and at least on my region d/c's almost never happen.
I've seen you use this argument a lot, but I don't get it at all. I don't watch NA or EU streams very much, but if I do, I don't see players acting as you say, either. Certainly not enough to warrant any significant drop in percentages for kill rate/survival rate.