NuclearBurrito
NuclearBurrito
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Also an injured Survivor gets exactly 7.9 meters of distance which takes 13.1 seconds to cover.
There is no reason to just assume the distance, we know how much the boost is.
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Btw are we assuming you break the pallet in a pallet stun scenario?
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@Aneurysm said:
But it doesn't work like that? It doesn't take 75 seconds to down a baby meg running in a straight line at all.
This is because you can't run in a straight line for 75 seconds. You'll hit a wall.
That's why Survivors loop. Since a circle has a similar effect as a straight line would.
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@hahadrillgobrrr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1369168#Comment_1369168
I have Plague and I've been running IF on Billy and Oni. CI hasn't been in much use and DD I haven't used once. I can't wrap my head around how to use it.
Ah, OP didn't list her.
Basically you drop it on someone like Clown and then drop chase after you proc it to go for a different Survivor.
Really any primarily M1 Killer can make great use of the perk. Clown and Plague in particular.
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First of all: 4 Killers. Huntress exists too.
Second of all: Sure but only because we already have 4 Killers that do it. The idea behind allowing for baits in a power isn't problematic, but I'll grant you that it's getting old. So they should only not make another one because it's not a fresh gameplay pattern since they already did it 4 times.
That being said I do like playing against demo/pyramid head. I've literally never faced deathslinger since the PTB so I can't speak for him.
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Don't be silly. There is also the hatch ;)
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@Yung_Slug said:
Well, iirc when they changed the spirit's post-phase speed it also nerfed wraith unintentionally, and when they tried to fix the silent slug bug they completely broke survivor sounds. I would assume it's not that simple.
This^
The code for hindered is probably like 50 lines half of which are effecting other unrelated parts of the game and the clown uses like 10 different poorly labeled variables to make it all work.
Something silly like that.
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Also you should totally buy Plague if you want perks. CI, IF and DD are all good perks. Dark devotion being the worst of the 3 is still very useful in some builds.
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@hahadrillgobrrr said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1369095#Comment_1369095
Thanks for the answer! You made me curious about Hag though, is she fun to play? I don't mind her being hard.
Having not bought either Killer I also want to know the answer to this question.
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Running healing perks, including Well Make It, makes injured Survivors see you as the Killer.
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@JacksonWise said:
Demogorgon.
Place a portal next to a generator, kick the gen, and immediately teleport to an existing portal. You'll still have roughly 10 seconds of undetectable but you could be anywhere on the map. Basically the same effect as the red add-on without the cooldown penalty (for portals). Could also pair well with the other red add-on that let's you see injured survivor auras while traveling.
I haven't tried this myself, but it someone happens to, let me know how it goes!
The problem (also a problem with the addon) is that demogorgon is really loud. You can hear his feet stomping from pretty far away and he makes noise when exiting a portal. So while yes you can get a TR removal that way, it's not super easy to capitalize on Survivors that are paying attention. At most you might start the chase a little closer, which I guess is value? But not all that much.
I would however recommend trying it out on mint rag hag. She can do the same thing except she isn't loud and doesn't announce her teleport.
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Crossplay with everything besides mobile has been confirmed. This feature can be opped out of if you don't want to deal with the resulting balance issues.
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@gudmans said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1368384#Comment_1368384
The killrate is for op which keeps saying "survs op"
And im talking about streamers that play both sides and are not biased.
And wanna know why they dont come to the forum to discuss their ideas? cause people here at least are less biased and smart, they always say it in their streamers cause they're fanboys will always think he's right, that makes them feel better lol.
If that was the case I would expect them to say other things in the forums where biases aren't relevant. For example their thoughts on map asthetics. I would also expect that the other streamers that don't talk about Survivors being OP (ex: Not Otz) WOULD be on the forums due to bias against them being a non-issue in the first place.
They don't, therefor reality matches one where they have some other reason to not use the forums.
Also True3 is one of the most loud about saying Survivors being OP and usually alternates between Killer and Survivor. How many popular streamers do you know that are also on these forums.
If you disagree, then name 2 streamers with at least 1000 followers that are active on the forums.
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@gudmans said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1367531#Comment_1367531
Have you seen them saying survivor are just straight up overpowered and coming to the forums and making a thread crying about it?
Btw, 75% killrate
I don't see what your kill rate has to do with this.
I see some streamers straight up say that Survivors are overpowered. They don't come to the forums to say it, but I don't see how the format they are using to state their opinion matters.
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I'm having the opposite problem. I'm seeing him far too much and not enough of anyone else.
Don't get me wrong, I enjoy playing against him. But more variety would be nice, it gets old after playing against him for the 10th time in a row.
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@xxDeathwishDW said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1366719#Comment_1366719
Look.
In the past, the all players were stealthy. Now they all are aggresivly. I want to be stealthy. Because, it's the true way this game must played.
Okay, they can loop. But they are just looping every time, without trying to not be seen from the killer. That's boring. They and we should scare from killers. Not have fun with him/her.
Survivors can do:
Camouflage
Hide in lockers
Hide behind the objects
many more!
And if these things don't work, they can loop, okay. But now eveyone is playing aggresivly. I came here to be scared. Feel the horror. Not for a funny game.
Directly or indirectly, scratchmarks are the fundamental cause of all the issues you are bringing up.
Basically here's a few things:
- Just hiding on it's own isn't particularly engaging. Particularly for the Killer doing the searching. Stealth is at it's best in the transition between stealth and being found or vice versa.
- Scratchmarks make it so that once a Survivor is found it is obscenely difficult to lose them.
- The first point means Survivors being often found is good, while the 2nd means they will eventually go down since they can't properly escape
- Balancing around 3 requires Survivors to have a goal in a chase other than escaping it. The core mechanics of the game only allows for stalling to be the alternative.
- Said balance leads to all of the frustration issues and looping things that you are complaining about, and thus the Survivor's reliance on 2nd chance perks.
#removescratchmarks
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@gudmans said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1364904#Comment_1364904
If you're really that "good" you wouldn't be crying here.
Do you see otzdarva or good streamers crying about survivors being op? you're just trash that's all.
Yes. I do actually.
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Sure I guess
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Look. The strength of a Killer is generally measured by theoretical effectiveness, not by ease of use. Sure, bubba's instant down is easier to use. But Billy can get almost any instant down bubba can get plus a few bubba can't due to distance AND has a ton of utility through fast patrol times.
Easier != Stronger
Harder != Weaker
In fact, difficulty in Killers is correlated with stronger Killers. This isn't a hard rule or anything, Freddy proves otherwise, but it's a tendency
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Killer is easier. That's why high ranks see more escapes compared to low ranks, the Survivors generally have more room to improve compared to most Killers. There are of course obvious exceptions such as Nurse and Huntress. But better Survivors escape more relative to worse Survivors than better Killers kill relative to worse Killers.
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@Poweas said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1364336#Comment_1364336
Yes, Plague is actually incredible lol.
Her buff was just perfect. Love it
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Mine
B tier is where the Killers start being good.
Oni is placed there because of his reliance on getting those early hits combined with lacking a power to assist in that matter. He is by no means bad, his power once you have it is excellent and the early game changes that are supposedly coming out will likely bump him up several tiers.
Trapper has the exact same issue as Oni but even more drastic. The powers effect is excellent but the build up takes too long so he just gets gen rushed.
Legion struggles to get downs. If this ever changes somehow he's going to be much better. Plague used to suffer from this issue but no longer does since her recent buff (thank you so much BHVR for that).
The new Killer has great anti-loop and time saving functionality as well as some minor tracking utility, thus A tier.
Ghostface has the best Stealth power due to having full movement and the ability to attack directly from stealth
Huntress has the best chase potential due to low cooldown long range hatchets covering every aspect you'd want in a chase really well (anti-loop, capitalization, crowd control, gap closing)
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@Freudentrauma said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1363937#Comment_1363937
It's not the players job to fix game design issues. That counts for killer as well for survivors. And as long people can camp, they will camp.
And yes, the current state of hooks is a game design issue, which also hurts killers. Mostly because Devs have to consider camping and tunneling into the overall balance of the game, that leads to things like the current gen repair times and long chases.
In this particular case, this isn't on the devs.
The Killer needs to be physically capable of camping or else unhooking in general suddenly become free. The most the devs can do is ensure Survivors are informed about the camping and punish the Killer for UNNECESSARY camping (aka: camping when no one is going for the save). Otherwise they just cause more problems than they solve.
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Ye. He counters DS either way so it's not like THAT'S an issue.
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@GoshJosh said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1363827#Comment_1363827
There is no such thing as a safe unhook for the situation described above. The killer will NOT leave the hook. Say that player happened to be caught first thing in a match.. they get 400 chase points, hooked, then get to die? And again, let's disuss how many killers you can not even get Borrowed Time off of in camping situations...
1) Cloaked Wraith
2) Pig crouched
3) Asleep vs. Freddy
4) Ghost Face in Night Shroud
5) 'Tiny heartbeat killers' (i.e. Monitor and Abuse on Deathslinger)
The list goes on...
Right so do gens and don't do unsafe hooks. The alternative is giving the Killer 2 Survivors to camp, and that isn't helping the situation.
If everyone just does gens in response to camping then a lot less people will camp.
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For now I'm still trying Adept
Plz help
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@Schmiddy21 said:
Simplest option is just to remove ranks. But we all know how broken the game is any yet we still play it.
This is also the option BHVR is taking
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I means it's either repair gens while the Killer is camping 1 Survivor, or go for the unhook and let the Killer camp 2 Survivors.
That alternative isn't exactly any better.
Don't do unsafe hooks.
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@thrawn3054 said:
I would do David and Bubba first. Bbq and Wglf will help your grind immensely.
^^^^
This is important for grinding.
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Legion was changed from a bad Killer with an addon that made him busted, to a bad Killer with no busted addons.
Do remember that. He was bad before the update and was still bad after the update.
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@Peppa_Pigsaw said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1357176#Comment_1357176
Considering how the developers on the streams have stated before multiple times to not take the numbers seriously, I find it really ironic that you then turn around and decide to quote numbers.
The real salt in the wound is the fact that everyone with at least half a brain in the community knows that Legion is an absolute dogsh*t killer and the person who thought the last "rework" (it was a plethora of nerfs not a rework and if you insist on calling it a rework, I find your attempt to be really sad and laughable at best) was a good idea to be completely and utterly incompetent.
TL:DR Nobody cares about your numbers, stop bringing them up and actually listen to your community, because they clearly understand this game better than you do.
Actually you guys are the ones that insist on calling it a rework. The devs didn't call it one. The update was even called the "The Legion Update"
Contrast Freddy, which actually WAS called a rework.
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"if that red marker does not appear, the survivors have NO WAY of predicting your shot and possibly avoiding it"
While I don't disagree with everything else, the red marker is for reaction dodges, not prediction dodges.
So without the red marker Survivors can predict it... by making a prediction. They just wouldn't be able to dodge it WITHOUT a prediction. Kinda like playing against Deathslinger or Huntress.
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The other 2 can be gotten with shards, so save your money and use that.
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Where's the option for all hook perks working including the Killer hook perks but that technically doesn't include DS because that perk triggers on pickup which still doesn't happen?
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@NinjaDette1 said:
Can we just have an option to shoot the killers ?😒.
Hold my pebble
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1362511#Comment_1362511
It is both a consistency issue AND a balance issue. So no changing the description does not fix a damn thing.
It shouldn't work. PERIOD. It just shouldn't. I can't fathom how you guys defend that it should. It's broken and doesn't match what the descriptions say. You lose on both fronts. There is no arguing for this.
It would fix the consistency issue. The balance issue is separate.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1362466#Comment_1362466
No because it's still a broken interaction. Being able to cage and then mori is broken. You can't stop a cage. If you have torment the killer can cage you and there is 0 defense. If the killer has to hook you have defenses. Flashlights, bodyblocks, sabo... there are ways to stop a hook. Furthermore, you have defensive options saving from a hook. BT, DS, also body blocks, swarming. You don't get these defensive options with cages, the best you get is that the cage spawns far away but in every instance where I've been caged the killer has managed to still find me very shortly after being saved if not being right on top of me while I'm still in the cage. IT IS BROKEN.
So here are the FACTS:
1) Mori's specifically say "hooks". We don't need to change the descriptions universally to fix an interaction with one specific killer.
2) Devs have said that hook effects do not work with cages. Cage =/= hook. Therefore it makes no sense to have this interaction.
3) The interaction is broken because you can defend from being hooked or after a hook rescue, you cannot do the same for cages.
Your solution does nothing to fix any of these problems.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1362479#Comment_1362479
The only evidence we need are what I stated above. The offering says "HOOK", you don't need any other evidence. There are instances of the devs fixing the perk to match the description, in fact there are more of those instances than them fixing the description to fit the effect. The only ones that even come to mind are Myer's recent add-on changes.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1362489#Comment_1362489
LOL seriously? Consistency would be that mori's don't work with cages since no other hook effect works. You can't be real with this comment. This has to be a troll.
Yes. Hmmm. Cages don't proc any hook effects, except this one. Oh yea, very consistent. Like...
Description changes are rarer than effect changes because the description was written to match the intended effect while a bug causing a problem with the effect was not.
However, in this particular case we cannot just assume that this is an example of that, since Mori's came out long before cages did, and while they were explicit with the mechanics not working with hook perks, the devs never called out Mori's.
Now I'd imagine that if you checked the code for Mori's it would probably be making a check for the Survivors current hook state, and since hook states ARE effected by cages mori's work with cages.
If the wording reflected this then there would be no consistency issues what so ever. Cages effect hook states, that is something both hooks and cages share and any other perks that reference hook states rather than hook actions would probably have the same interactions.
I'm well aware that we COULD change the code itself to check for the hook action and not the hook state. But that's not the point and that's not why I'm asking, since in my ideal world cages would count as hooks for everything and mori offerings wouldn't exist.
The point is that you opened this entire discussion about a consistency issue, and I'm trying to ensure that this is ACTUALLY a consistency issue and not a balance issue that has an entirely separate consistency issue by shear coincidence.
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Don't run through the pallet if he's looking at you from behind while his sword is in the ground.
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I feel like someone says this every time a new Killer comes out.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1362444#Comment_1362444
*points out the unreliable thing in order to get it fixed*
"Can't base your opinions on unreliable things"
WUT
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1362440#Comment_1362440
The only fact here is that the offering says, explicitly, that you must hook a survivor and the cage does not work for ANY OTHER HOOK EFFECT. Those are all the facts I need. The solution is to make the cage interaction with mori the same as it is with all other hook effects. ON TOP OF THAT, the current way the interaction works is just broken. PERIOD.
Ok so if we change the wording, thus falsifying those facts you said you needed, then you wouldn't have the hook effect issue. Riiiiight?
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1362418#Comment_1362418
OR
They just make it so you have to hook to get the mori.
Why is so hard to admit that's how it should be? The offering is meant for hooks. Cages are not hooks. Allowing it to work with cages is just flat out broken.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1362419#Comment_1362419
"It is probably balance reasons. "
Which is the same reason that a mori should not work with cages, besides the fact the offering says "hook" specifically.
Answer my question. I'm aware that changing the mechanics is one way to solve a mechanics wording disconnect. However changing the wording is also ALWAYS a solution to a mechanics wording disconnect.
So either acknowledge this fact or give a reason to change the interaction that is independent from the offering using the word hook and stop acting like this is a clarity issue.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1362393#Comment_1362393
And then when there is some other interaction, maybe with a future killer, that contradicts the new text? You are changing something that affects everyone, instead of just fixing the interaction for that specific killer.
Cage =/= hook. It's as simple as that. You shouldn't be able to mori a survivor unless you hook them. If you play Executioner and put on a mori, you will need to hook them first. You already have a built in mori, it's completely unfair that you get a free mori when no other hook effect works.
Fine then, an alternative universe where the text says "If the Survivor has been hooked or caged you may kill them".
There, now it specifically references cages and thus wouldn't have any difference with any hypothetical other Killers.
NOW would it solve the problem? If not then why.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1362360#Comment_1362360
Dude it makes 0 sense to change an offering that effects every killer instead of just changing that one killer's interaction with said offering.
Explain why it needs to be a thing. No other hook effect works with cages, why are we going to make an exception for this ONE instance?
Hook anything doesn't work with cages, this is obviously an oversight by the devs if this interaction works.
The only reason someone would defend this is because they plan to abuse it. Sorry but there is no other way you guys could be arguing for this BS as much as you are. It's pretty clear that it's a broken interaction that isn't supposed to happen, and changing the offering for this one specific interaction makes no sense.
You aren't changing the offering. You are changing the text ON the offering. No mechanics are altered.
Lets put in this way:
In an alternate universe where the text on mori's is and always was "You can Kill a Survivor if their next hook would put them into the struggle or sacrafice phase", would you still have a problem and if so why?
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@ill_Boston_lli said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1362332#Comment_1362332
the problem is hook perks dont work out of the cage right??? as a matter of fact exhaustion doesnt even rest when thrown in the gulag why should a mori work when the requirement to do so is to hook someone???? yes it takes a hook stage but it isnt a hook. if your going to allow a mori you need to make all hook perks work as well thats the problem.
Ok so if we make mori's prerequisite "if the next hook would put the Survivor in the struggle state", thus making it have nothing to do with having hooked the Survivor in the first place. Then it would solve the problem, and any perks with the same wording would have the same interaction of course.
If this does not solve your problem, then THIS CANNOT BE THE ISSUE.
Whatever statement you use the establish this as an issue, in an alternative universe where the statement is false the issue must not exist.
"Hook perks don't work out of cages" is not enough to establish anything, since it's a non-sequiter by itself.
"Hook perks don't work out of cages AND mori's are a hook perk" is more legitimate. However if that statement is in fact the reason for the interaction being bad then if mori's were reworded to NOT be a hook perk (thus making the earlier statement false), then it MUST solve the problem.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1362292#Comment_1362292
No. Stop saying this. You're like the 4th person to say this.
Cage =/= hook. Therefore you shouldn't be able to mori if you only caged a survivor. THAT IS ALL THAT NEEDS TO HAPPEN. Changing the description of the offering might affect other things too. It makes more sense to just have cages not allow a mori.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1362294#Comment_1362294
I'm not ignoring what the description LITERALLY says. That's on you.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1362296#Comment_1362296
CAGE IS NOT A HOOK. It consumes a hook state but it is not a hook. If it were, then all hook effects would work. Either they all work or none do. There should be no exceptions. And yes, Ivory/Ebony states you need to be HOOKED for it to take effect. If a cage is not a hook for everything else, why is it suddenly count as a hook here?
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1362300#Comment_1362300
I agree but this is an entirely different discussion. This is about cages and mori. That's it.
Changing the description would change nothing but the description.
The whole justification for this entire thread is that the mori says hook which a cage is not. So if that is actually the problem AND it is taken away then there will not be a problem.
If changing the wording does NOT solve the problem that means it was never the main issue in the first place.
So if you don't care about the wording then what exactly is the problem.
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@thesuicidefox said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1361968#Comment_1361968
You guys are missing the point. So I will make it easy.
IF THE OFFERING SAYS "HOOK" THEN YOU MUST HOOK.
Period end of story. It is an issue and it's honestly mind blowing people defend it.
Ok so if they reword the offering to clarify the interaction without changing it then problem solved right?
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High B
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I think this would be a good Stealth Killer perk.
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@Rivyn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1361619#Comment_1361619
My original question was concerning why they couldn't divulge more. It just hits a sore spot when they say they have info, but won't share it. So, 'why' can't it be shared. NDA?
ooooooh....
NVM then. I thought you were asking something else
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@Rivyn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/1361490#Comment_1361490
Everything is speculation unless hard evidence is shown. Don't want speculation, show numbers that point to A, B, and C. Simply saying something without backing it up is speculation in itself.
I know. So why are you to ask them to justify the stats when we both know they can't literally go in and view all of the games to get that answer.