Neaxolotl
Neaxolotl
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- Neaxolotl
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It's actually difficult when survivors are competent
most of the time they are not
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@Mag1cian said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697189#Comment_3697189
"Having counterplay doesn't mean anything" lol, yes it does actually and you cannot compare hug to heal tech, hug tech guarantees hits in almost every tile if Blight is experienced and knows about V1, heal teach on the other hand happens very rare and has sort of counter play.
It seems to me that you just don't know how to counter it and pretending counter doesn't exist
@SirXenomorph said:
Correct me if I am wrong but you could just have pick up the one already downed. But yet you decide to down the rest too. Sry but for that to have a change there when it was your own fault that all got out? Why? Just pick up the one person next time and be not so greedy. When you would have pick up the one they would maybe have tried to get her what would have you give more than enough time to get more of them.
But yet you was the reason they did that. Do not complain about something you open the gates for. You would have get at least one.
I am so done with killers who want all changed only they are to greedy. Also if that will be changed, than it must be changed, that you can tunnel, slug, camp, 3gening etc. ALL THAT WILL BE TAKE AWAY FROM YOU!
You are missing the point as no one complaining about getting 4 man out itself, he is complaining about getting 4 man out through unintended abuse of certain mechanics
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At this point just show them killer perk build
It'd completely kill certain perks and would make everyone to go for four slowdown perks but balancing will happen anyway
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@goodfriday said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697784#Comment_3697784
killer have exploits too they use and we are told to run x perk as well.
So survivors knows the feeling as well? nice
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New ultimate weapon is actually better, distortion is worse than calm spirit because it is more or less token based
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@Chaosrider said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696415#Comment_3696415
If the killer does bad, yeah. Otherwise you get hit for sure.
Nope
The projectile speed is actually slow enough to be dodged on reaction past certain distance, whether you get injured after that by m1 is different matter
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The only real answer is stop playing until it get fixed
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@GannTM said:
The problem with this is that it could have the opposite effect. If your teammates can’t see your aura with their perks, then they won’t know where not to go when being chased even if they’re trying to use those perks in a good way. I don’t really think there’s a good way to fix this issue, solo queue teammates are going to be hit or miss no matter what.
It's not that they NEVER want to be caught like that, it's that they do not want to be a target of griefing by toxic teammate
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maybe a hatch might be a problem
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You are never meant to waste usable slot like that
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@fussy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697721#Comment_3697721
Because all killer's pressure will go into chase aspect of the game. And short chases no matter what are not fun for anyone, because this is the most fun part of the game. And literally whole skill expression is in chases.
We should give some alternate playstyle to killers, who don't want to tunnel and throw the game at the same time. But i don't think there is a realistic way to completely delete tunneling from the game without killing it.I don't feel there is much pressure beside kills anyway
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@fussy said:
You sure you want this? Because you don't have to be a genius to understand that killers will get a giant buff after that. And big majority of survivors simply won't handle it and game will become boring for all with insta chases, like PTB Twins had.
Why not? I'll just play killers and be happy to play them without worrying about hooks
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@Archol123 said:
Thats a proper skill issue on the killer side... The counterplay is fairly easy.. You wait until they finish the heal and hit them, they backflip and get further away from the exit... And you repeat that until you can either down someone else and pick them up or get the pickup on the already downed survivor.
Having counterplay doesn't mean anything, hugtech was mostly counterable too
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
Misplays aside, I do think Billy needs some adjustments and Lopro needs to be completely reworked as that addon is utterly broken with zero counter play. If you are injured vs Lopro you either go down at a pallet or you throw the pallet and still go down.
I don't mind that Billy got a buff as I think he need it but I think it needs a bit of fine tuning (down)
hit the pallet or use windows
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@Royval said:
Basekit kindred… why does survivors want so much hand holding?!
Until literally all the aura perks are basekit
Why not? playing survivors would feel super chilly and actual advantage would be honestly minuscule
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696966#Comment_3696966
Pre 6.1 was the best for both sides. It may have gotten stale for many, but all the strong perks (other than DH) were fair. After 6.1 we deleted Ruin/Thana/Pop/Self-Care/Iron-Will/Calm Spirit/DS, and only now are they rolling back the nerfs on Pop/Ruin/DS, so hopefully the other perks (Thana and Self-Care please!!!) get returned to viable.
I guess a more specific time would be right before Mikaela's patch. CoH was just too busted, and not fixed until around Eruption was fixed also. Also old hatch allowed for punishing tunneling that still was a net win for killer. The Killer got a Win/Tie/Tie/Tie, so they won, but it was boring/anticlimactic. It was a perfect punishment for tunneling, as it was equally boring and anticlimactic as well.
Pre 6.1 had uncountable amount of seriously ridiculous things that borderline killed game
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Not using windows, not even predropping, wasting time wandering near slugged person without actually escaping, somehow going to progressed gen and instantly dies, all against billy
quite a lot going on there
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696502#Comment_3696502
I'm saying that any Killer can make use of cyclical hooking, and return to slugs and secure a hook while still providing pressure even with a basekit UB.
It doesn't kill it as a means of winning, as you need 6 downs to kill (with a 45s basekit UB). If you want to torture people with annoyances to win, then it should be proportionately harder to do so. The strategy isn't removed, but it is limited.Not having agency is the root cause of the majority of DBD's complaints. Addressing agency-less situations means less complaints, which means better game. Also hooked Survivors only lack agency in that they can't refuse an unhook. Being able to choose to wait or Kobe is agency, and only the foolish Mikaela unhooking in the face of the previously tunneling Killer within a deadzone is providing the Survivor soon to be off hook without agency. The arguable way to fix that is have an alternate 3 times longer unhook animation, but it fills the Survivor's anti-facecamp Kobe bar. That way the save was already done, it took longer to complete, but allows for the unhooking Survivor to run away from hook and the Killer can chase the unhooker or wait until the 59s mark to tunnel.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696858#Comment_3696858
(Points addressed in order of importance)
"Getting bleed out in my experience is mostly, because you annoyed the killer. I usually bleed out any survivors trying to go for saves with Background player." "I got bleed out few times … we went for Headon SWF, so that was definetly deserved."
So you purposefully ruin the experience of someone for using a normal perk within the game?!?! Are you alright IRL? I don't understand what would drive anyone to be so petty as to waste 4 minutes of their own, and someone else's life because they used a perk. This is especially why I think basekit UB should be a thing, to prevent this level of absurdist false justifications for engaging in these essentially griefing acts. Also if the SWF all died/got slugged, why did the Killer need to BM and bleedout? They simply could have not been a jerk and hooked the Survivors. This is the mindset that causes exit gate teabags against Killers who did nothing, because the last Killer bled people out for no actual reason.
At this point the only alternative to basekit UB is that 2m+ of bleedouts should be bannable (if you provide video evidence sitting under hook or crawling towards hook), because slugging at large clearly is only used by bad actors griefing people.
As far as 'push tunneling even more', that's just a self-report to not trying to learn to improve. I have a 74% winrate before the gens pop, I never actively attempt to camp or tunnel (unless they clearly tap a gen in my face, or I need the same Survivor for the 7th and 8th hook before a kill), and Ghosty/Clown/Legion/Myers are my most played/favorite Killers in descending order. It is possible to play (and win) without tunneling unless someone brainwashed the playerbase into thinking otherwise. Heck, C3 even did an excellent experiment where they purposely hooked each Survivor once, then each a second time, then finally went for kills with no gen Slowdown on Myers with a 68% winrate across 50 matches.Also normal Myers isn't even slugging heavy unless the Killer player is playing him to lose. See my previous posts in this thread on Oni math to see why that's objectively false. Can't speak to your specific Plague playstyle, but I've never needed to slug longer than 30s as Plague, even when trying to snowball with red puke, but I also learned to not overcommit, which most of the playerbase hasn't.
You are adding more complaints for killers by arbitrary buffs, not really sure if it actually results in "less complaints" after all
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@ohheyitsbobcat said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697111#Comment_3697111
IDK, that'd be in the same vein as arguing an AFK person is holding the game hostage since the killer can't play either. It doesn't really work that way.
In our scenario at least the killer can just grab them from the locker if they stay and if they don't then nothing is stopping them from breaking the turrets and chasing.
AFK person doesn't actively hide, so eventually crows will appear and just get hooked by killer, game will ends
This is with expectation of that survivor is seriously hiding and only doing things to avoid crows, if that's not the case problem would be different
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@ohheyitsbobcat said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696943#Comment_3696943
Those are two very different scenarios though. The person chilling in the locker isn't stopping the other 3 or the killer from playing. They are hurting their team by using resources selfishly but everyone can still play the game. It's just like if one person uses all of the Nemesis/Wesker cures for themselves.
A survivor blocking another survivor is the same as a killer blocking a survivor. It's preventing someone from playing all together which is where holding the game hostage comes from.
I should have worded my earlier statement a bit better as I didn't mean that was the only way to do it. It's just the only one I brought up. That's my bad.
Edit: Added to my post.
A survivor hiding in the locker is stopping killer from playing UNLESS other 3 survivors generously participate in game and allow killer to play the game
Seems very same to be honest
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@FatAngryB said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696969#Comment_3696969
Not necessarily, no. The thing with tunnelling becomes the chicken or the egg scenario. If you wanted to remove tunnelling, you have to replace the current system of generator repairing, hiding and playstyle of every single gameplay detail to make room for something different. Do you see why that's not easy? You're essentially flipping the game on its head.
Yes yes, exactly what I want, the flipping of entire game
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3697028#Comment_3697028
Sorry, thought I responded to this last night—must have signed off before sending my response!
"someone who want you to have a bad time", like can you elaborate what exactly is that
I could give dozens of anecdotes, but your best bet is checking out content creators who create videos about "toxic TTVs" or "salty survivors." Those videos should paint a pretty clear image of the vitriolic players who use DBD as an outlet for their own pain.
What percentage of the player base is made up of these people, I don't think we could possibly know. But no one can deny that there are players who are intentionally malicious and use the game to demoralize other people. It has been recorded, and it has prompted hundreds, if not thousands, of discussions on this forum over the years.
Ah the one reason why some people avoid streamers at all costs
Honestly I don't really know? they've removed face camping and all that nonsense that gives black hearts the power, and the SWF that used to mess up newer killers having lot harder times due to all the balancing between killers and survivors, game seems to be going in correct direction
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@KayTwoAyy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696801#Comment_3696801
You're the only consistent factor in all these matches so who knows.
…consistently sitting on the same gen being Pain Res, Popped, and Grim Embraced while my teammates fall like dominoes, yeah.
It's comical you'd come in here thinking you can talk down to me because I am the common denominator in my own anecdote; as if I was even capable of speaking on behalf of any other player's experience. No reason to be passive aggressive, unless my post offends you.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696811#Comment_3696811
I'll gladly turn on OBS next time I find myself in gen regression pergatory.
For the record, I'm less concerned with the scoreboard than I am with the player behavior behind it. Not much to celebrate about 4K at 4 gens, either—honestly, even 4k at 3 gens is pretty grim. But all that is besides the point; I don't expect anyone to believe I'm running into this "all the time," because I'm not.
BHVR has all the data they need to make balance changes without player feedback. They don't need me to tell them how many times I've died at 5, 4, 3, etc. gens. I'm trying to eject the human element into their decision making. I'm here to say "your data might please you, but players are still unhappy, and I believe this is one of the reasons why…"Uh, what is the "reason" you've described, it's really hard to understand what you are even trying to prove
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@OneGoodBoyDemo said:
Not really. Sadako seems to be a lost cause because she will either be useless or too strong due to condemned. The First Sadako wast to weak and the Second was too strong ( SoloQ issue ) and then they tried putting the two versions together, which didn't work out very well in my opinion.
It depends on how people want it. a killer faithful to the lore and fun to play but weak or a strong killer not very fun to play against if it depends on the strategy we all know. I find it very difficult to make both things happen in a way where people won't abuse.
Honestly I believe first sadako was actually stronger than what we have now due to addon difference
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@goodfriday said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696994#Comment_3696994
No self unhook needs to stay no one want to suffer a 3 gen boring merchant or some very try hard killer that acting like they is winning a million dollar prize or some team mate who's just opening chest/doing totems or urbaning all over the map not doing anything.
I love how people (not saying you) how distortion people are always hiding when it tends to be a total opposite for me, its the ones with no distortion be hiding cause the distortion ones will sit on gens since bbq wont let some high mobility killer like annoying spirits chase them off gens.
Pretty sure no one want to suffer guaranteed losing game caused by a survivor throwing tantrum against any of the smallest problem that's not even a "problem" to begin with
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Statistically speaking, DC penalty has been proven really effective at stopping people from "not wanting to play"
And pretty sure removal of hook suicide would do same
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There is no penalty in having tapes, and tapes doesn't protect anyone from condemn
Basically she has been completely dumbed down and pretty much lost any power she had
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It'd be nice if we had a minute or two of "reconnect" period
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@FatAngryB said:
Tunneling can't be removed because Survivors loop. Survivors loop and troll you into the earth and yet whine about tunneling? Then stop looping.
But I'm fairly certain these people don't watch horror movies. Good luck asking Michael Myers to stop tunneling through Laurie Strode's life. I'm sure he'll oblige. Or Chucky. Or Pinhead. Or Bubba. Or any other killer with an agenda for that matter. Or anyone whose actively trying to accomplish the games objective by hunting down, which means tunnelling in essence, and killing, the survivor.
Survivor mains must live in the ocean to be this salty I swear.
But when tunneling is removed, you don't care about survivor looping or trolling, as you'd have enough time to deal with them
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@ad19970 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696451#Comment_3696451
I really wouldn't want someone like you in my survivor team for sure, if you afk in half your matches.
Survivors definitely face some issues, mainly camping and tunneling, but it's also not as bad as you are making it out to be.
I mean, it would be as bad if everyone plays in the way he play
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@Alcuin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696950#Comment_3696950
He's a spam Killer.
Doesn't really matter when none of spamming realistically hit survivors tbh
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@Alcuin said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696925#Comment_3696925
They're making a lot of Killers too easy on PC. That's a fact. Huntress doesn't need 7 hatchets for PC when they have 120 fps. How hard is it to backrev a Survivor with Hillbilly on PC considering he has a non-existent cooldown? These Killers are busted on PC.
Hillbilly has fairly long charge up, which is honestly worse than cooldown
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@GolbezGarlandGabrant said:
Killers just want to 4 kill at 5 gens every single game. It's almost like a "flawless victory." All those slowdown perks and hard tunneling allows them to achieve that.
No one can 4kill at 5 gen against decent team even with all the slowdown perks
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@Moonras2 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696568#Comment_3696568
Yes but if they set all the turrets up there and stayed at shack, I'm not sure they were unfindable. I could be wrong, I didn't see the match. It sounds like they were just trying to be annoying.
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696560#Comment_3696560
See, I'm not sure how the developers see this though. It would be nice if maybe @Peanits could chime in. To me, seeing teammates crouch hiding behind objects and not doing anything is also annoying. Or someone doing tomes, chest, or totems but not touching gens. But these are not bannable or considered griefing as far as I know.
Someone taking all the turrets and using them to hide out at shack is selfish and would also be annoying. But not really any different than the former if they are doing it for survival.
Im sure they were doing it as you said, to be annoying. As well as going out of the way to do it. But in the unlikely event they were doing it to ensure their own survival, would it still be griefing?
I'm not trying to say what they did was right by any means. There just seems to be no clear definitions with what is what in this game or what is considered normal gameplay.
My other big question is how did they manage to get and keep all the turrets there before anyone else could place or take any?
It's realistically unfindable if survivors ONLY exits the locker with sole purpose of avoiding crows
If we go in technicality, we can always find survivors unless they are cheaters, but in reality it's impossible because killers can move and see only so much
@ohheyitsbobcat said:
It sounds rather annoying but I doubt it's reportable.
Not participating in normal gameplay really should be removed from the report because it's simply not true. Chest Protector, Farming, Sabo Squads that won't do gens and other meme-y things are not bannable so I don't see how this would be.
Holding the game hostage only applies if two+ people are actively hiding to prolong it. One person making a fort to hide in isn't holding anything hostage.
For griefing you'd have to prove he's doing this to try and hurt his teammates and not just protect himself. If someone wants to play super selfish they can; there are even perks designed around it.
Considering the billion challenges it could also be argued he was working on something specific.
If you banned people for hiding in lockers all game then brand new players would likely get banned.
Again, this is certainly annoying but I doubt it's bannable without the player themselves admitting to try and grief.
If that was the case, body blocking single survivor for an entire match would not be considered as hostage because other survivors can progress the game
I believe if you need other players to progress the game, that's enough for hostage
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Remember the day developer said this is a party game
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Deserves to be fixed 100%
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And give even more BPs
Yes
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Hook grab can pretty much guarantee a win with facecamping, yeah it was pretty useful for adept but not sure if it was actually fair or anything
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I never see point in DC penalty when hook suicide is a thing tho
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@Moonras2 said:
Im honestly not sure on this. I don't think there is any rule that can really apply unless the devs decide it can. It definitely isn't holding the game hostage if they could be killed and you knew they were there. I don't know how it could qualify as griefing either. There are no rules that say survivors have to play as a team or save resources for the others.
I'm also not sure what constitutes as normal gameplay. I want to say that I know but if it requires doing gens, helping teammates, etc... Then half the solo queue teammates I get paired with would be banned for hiding in corners all game or going for flashlight/sabo saves.
Killer can't kill or even find infinitely hiding survivors, locker hiding is enough to be considered hostage situation
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696519#Comment_3696519
Now you mean Devs should nerf weaker perks to the point survivors never use it but prefer using stronger perk to improve escape rate.
Thank you for confirming Hope and Adrenaline doesnt work 99% of time though.
I believe that WILL improve solo q experience nonetheless, so yes I guess
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@Pluto_1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696425#Comment_3696425
Who are you talking to? You're saying this is this and that is that as if you know the entirety of the killer base. You're speaking for yourself. Don't tell me what feels like a loss to me.
Huh? 3k is win, anything else is lose, this is pretty much a fact even from MMR perspective
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696506#Comment_3696506
Then it means it hardly change killing rate. Then why complain about Hope and Adrenaline?
Probably because they felt bad for it, what else really
If anything, it'd actually improve escape rate as people stops wasting their perk slot for that just doesn't work for 99% of time
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Pretty sure BHVR never mess with something that causes matchmaking problem
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@Ilikechips said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696382#Comment_3696382
They won't stop until survival rates are in the single digits. The devs are pushing solos towards that every update, so the devs are on board with them.
Removing endgame perks hardly changes survival rate
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3695842#Comment_3695842
The person was claiming (back during that PTB) the 45s UB prevents Oni snowballs. Technically the only way an Oni could snowball with all 4 downs is by having at least 1 multi-hit as the swing warmup and cooldown take longer that the 17s you have remaining after losing time for each down (so you would need Swing 1 downing Survs A+B, Swing 2 downs Surv C, Swing 3 downs Surv D).
A Killer would know where they downed the Survs, and be able to rotate accordingly. For example if I downed the Survs in the 4 compass directions. I can save massive amounts of time by hooking them at the next Surv's compass direction. Eg. Surv downed in the order of North, East, South, West. I can then pickup Surv North and hook them at East, pickup East and hook them at South, pickup South and hook them at West, then pickup West and hook for the win. (See hookmap below)https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/RK9QT5HPSJZ1/hookmap.png
Must find them: Again, if they crawled, they bought the Killer more time, and if they recovered, the Killer knows where they are. If they crawled for 10s, they only made 7m of distance, and the Killer can spend only a mere 1.5s extra to walk to where they got downed, then walk to their new 7m further location the Surv crawled to. Even if the claim was all 4 Survs crawled for 10s before starting to recover, that only cost the Killer 6 total seconds (~1.5*4), and cost the Survivors 10 total seconds. Net positive of 4s for Killer if Survivors crawled, thus I gave the worst case scenario for Killer with instant-recovering and no crawling, and Killer still being able to hook all Survivors.
It doesn't kill slugging as a form of pressure or slowdown, but it does make hooking more effective as a form of pressure. It also gives agency to slugged Survivors, instead of telling them to just AFK till bleedout. If someone wants to still bleedout for their kills, they need 6 downs (as opposed to hooking taking 3), so they are willingly taking a harder way to kill Survs, and the Survs are still given agency to play.I'm stating slugging isn't the oni limited strategy, your simulation works for oni but it only workst for oni and no one else
It kills slugging as a means of winning the game, it stays for pressure, but it seems plain wrong to remove perfectly valid strategy only because someone utilized this for griefing
We don't need agency for slugged suvivors just like we don't need agency for hooked survivors, just remove the capability of griefing and no need for more
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@Feneroe said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696449#Comment_3696449
I'm pretty sure they mean only one survivor at a time on any gen, with three others unable to touch a gen.
That's a buff for more than 80% of situations, sticking together is what killer want survs to do
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@Snowbawlzzz said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3696425#Comment_3696425
Actually nvm, disregard me
I don't want to have this conversation about why or why not the game should be turned into a participation trophy playground. If that ever happened I would just play a better PVP game.I don't really understand how you believe making game 4k or 0k only by forcing 12 hooks, making it extremely obvious whether you won or not, somehow makes "participation trophy playground" at all
It just makes this game more straightforward instead of current "you are playing four matches at same time" style, did you know this game was 1v1*4 and not 1v4 as we believe? I don't think you do
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@Orthane said:
And how exactly do you propose we accomplish this? Also should we also remove the ability for more than 1 Survivor to work on a gen at a time?
We can do literally anything to accomplish this, I don't care how
And I'm pretty sure removing the ability to cooperatively work on a gen is basically a buff for survivors
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Probably considered as holding game hostage, as it requires other survivors to progress the game