NarkoTri1er
NarkoTri1er
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@Shroompy said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787955#Comment_3787955
thing is with 6.1.0 they did buff breaking speed and didnt touch Brutal. STBFL also took quite a bit to get changed despite having a hit cool-down reduction in the same patch
The increase hook timer with anti face camping is fine, 99% of the time you shouldn't be stickin around the hook that long anyway.
but hook timer increase literally has nothing to do with your-average-case of camping because average player can't get use of it due to lack of general game knowledge pr just simply giving up on hook instantly, while severely impacting gameplay at higher skill level.
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@Choaron said:
"Surely this must mean that we need to further buff killers, including already strong ones" - BHVR designers
i didn't know that leaving the match because you don't want to find a better way to cope with your general burnout from playing the game way too much is a balance issue.
If we actually balanced the game around fragile egos of people, imagine what a disaster this game would be
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@AnchorTea said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3788502#Comment_3788502
You're still creating an us vs them since you imply one takes more skill than another. While there could be debates about this, just appreciate your own accomplishments and respect others. Doesn't need to be deeper
but it technically is true? Especially when you take in mind that survivors are just skins and killers are actually different from each other.
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@IIITweedleIII said:
Do any of you believe going P100 really means anything? You could use any character after BP for codes, playthroughs, even gifted by streamers or such. It's up to the player to choose who gets their favorite character bloodpoints. To reach Prestige levels. I honestly don't see Prestige any special than just 🤷♂️
well, because of that, make it actually be result of skill rather than just farm n spend BPs mechanic
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@kosaba11 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787474#Comment_3787474
Considering how over powered killers are, there shouldn't be a penalty. Until BHVR does something to make the survivor experience fun again, survivors should be allowed to give up or leave - it's only fair, since BHVR is okay with killers being toxic.
you can't have fun experience in any PvP game if you expect that you can meet both "being bad" and "winning" conditions :D
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@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3788538#Comment_3788538
I would say its probably because Bhvr. realized they went a bit too far one way and are trying to balance it out again. And I have no idea what you are talking about "low-effort strategy" are you replying to the wrong comment?
which way did they go too far exactly? Because judging by you "balanced around killers playing inefficiently and bad" is plain wrong, when average killer player actually has more willingness for self improvement than average survivor has, while average survivor player gives up for slightest inconvenience because they find it easier than to actually learn how to play the game.
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@doobiedo said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787141#Comment_3787141
Right now the game is balanced around Killers playing inefficiently and bad. We want it more balanced.
if a killer is bad because they use a "low effort" strategy that doesn't work on skilled survivor players, but work on you, you know what that means?
And let's not start a whole story about game literally, and i mean literally being balanced around survivors, why else would we have increased hook timers brought with Dracula patch? why have hook grabs been removed? Why was anti-facecamp mechanic implemented (and people are forcing BHVR to make it counter any kind of camping)?
How can this game possibly be balanced around bad killers when we can literally see which direction it's going towards?
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easy fix: remove 4% unhook chance. I mean, when did it actually get used for actual unhook attempt now where luck.is.meaningless?
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@Efrost said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787570#Comment_3787570
What are you talking about. Nothing has changed, the devs have been removing almost all risk out of killers kit. That easily impacts the micro play level
what risk has exactly been removed out of killer kits?
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my honest opinion on P100 is that it should've never been about spending BPs to have that shiny red P100 badge.
Killers who P100 killers usually go their way to learn at least decent amount of gameplay with them, while people who P100 survivors are usually looking to farm and play this game for nothing else but prestige grind because "omg, high prestige".
Also, i don't understand some survivors flexing their P100 at all, specifically when they are players that are truly bad. What even is point to flex a number you've reached literally only by investing BPs into it and no skill at all
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imho only toxic kind of slugging is intentionally bleeding survivor(s) out, unless we are talking about sabo + Boil Over abusers
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@nam said:
This play style is rised in Asia servers. The Key perks are Knock Out and The Third Seal. You don't hock cuz the sacrifice bar is increased to 70s, which makes hocking make no benefit, instead, you hit one down, let him bleed to die, and go to find the next. Knock out and the Third seal will make survivors take much time to rescue others. The advantage of this play style is when you hit one down, and you are chasing the next one, another survivor has to run around the map to rescue which takes much more time than rescue from hook, while only one survivor can do the gens.
Knock Out is that kind of perk that basically doesn't work against SWFs but extremely impacts SoloQ because it's a perk that makes you rely on comms as technically only counterplay, which makes it extremely unhealthy. I would definitely not encourage using it nor practising that playstyle.
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i would be completely okay with game being free on Epic (why do people even use Epic when it's the worst platform in existence with the worst customer support and client ever) if DbD stopped relying on EAC (which is a terrible anticheat system btw) and video proof provided by player in order to punish cheaters and we actually had much better way to punish cheaters, something maybe like Overwatch system in CS2?
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@Hex_Ignored said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3787895#Comment_3787895
Learheface, trickster, huntress, hillbilly, deathslinger, etc. are all killers that can camp extremely well. I just picked leatherface because he is the most notable example.
In soloq, unless someone has kindred, there is no way to know a killer is camping until you have been there and seen it which wastes a lot of time.
Camping is a base feature. It requires neither a high amount of skill nor any specific perks (though there are camping support perks like deadlock), however for survivors without comms, as explained above, just getting the info that a killer is camping wastes a lot of time and the only real counter against campers like leatherface, trickster, huntress, etc. is, as you have said, perks or trying to pull insane stunts just to counter someone standing in place.
The amount of effort the killer has to put into camping vs the amount of effort and coordination survivors need to counter it are in no way comparable, which imo isn't good game design.
if by "camping extremely well" you mean getting a 1K as a punishment for playing terribly, then you could be probably right.
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being tunneled seems like so much frustrating experience, but after you learn all practical things about chase, it becomes…actually a fun experience to watch killer desperately trying to tunnel you. But honestly, look at every tunneling experience as a chance to learn, because unless you are playing tons of 1v1s, you won't be able to improve your chase skills as much as you do through getting tunneled in pubs.
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Blight's hug tech - removed, now he is just a basic version of himself relying on bump logic
Oni's shoulder/insta 180s - attempted removal, not possible on consoles
Haste related perks - idk why they are still being added into the game at all since haste by itself is already in an extremely unhealthy spot
Killer role has been dumbed down, survivor role has been dumbed down too. Unfortunately, i don't really expect community feedback to be listened to
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@Burniebotss said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3785571#Comment_3785571
that’s three gen perks
Corrupt is NOT a "gen slowdown" perk. It's literally early game zoning perk meant to help you zone survivors into a tighter area to make your search for them more profitable. Idk how is it possible that yall still consider it an actual slowdown.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3785638#Comment_3785638
Yeah that was kinda my point with 'what DC would have been spun positively (Survivor sided in this context) for the stats'. You got a quick double tap that basically meant you were so much more skilled than them, that it was your game to lose by AFKing by 3-5 minutes or something similarly extreme. It was going to be a 3K/4K (Hatch RNG/slug dependent), and now that Killer win is not being counted towards the stats.
I largely agree with the 3 points, but all of those skew in favor of Killer stats.
Matchmaking: I think game health was better under Emblems being the matchmaking driver, even if newer players who played too much, sometimes got to Red ranks in their first month. Also too many people are ego-driven, and think they cannot be assailed since they reached the tippy top of matchmaking. This game has the top 25% in the highest rank, whereas games like CS or SC or League or DOTA2 have at the minimum top 1% as their highest rank. That is such a huge range of skill levels. Where I think most Killer complaints come from is the 75-80% (the weakest of the top 25%) range, since by the time they reach the 85-95% range, they have too many weaker Survivors all but guaranteeing a Killer win.
Skill: I too think no matter what, I can outskill my opponents (or learn from my loss and know how to win the next one), but as a linked concept, I can't outskill my teammates for a positive result. Soloq will always drag people down (and to be quite honest, my SWF as well - we are having fun from shared enjoyment/goofing off, not winning). I do think that when a SWF is all individually skilled players, going to the extreme to call out clocks, they can be nearly unstoppable, I just find those too rare to concern myself with. I don't stay in my house for fear of a meteor strike or lightning strike, so I think I can survive the 5 minutes of a sweat SWF teabagging since it will be over quick enough.
Different goals: Yeah I think this is the most fair argument for kill/win stats being out of whack. So many Survivor tomes are outright 'throw the game' tomes. What is even worse, is that you never know if someone is catching back up on older tomes, which also are throw tomes. The most recent tome I gotta say had surprisingly minimal 'throw the game' type challenges, and I just hope more tomes aren't just made to artificially adjust kill rates for a short time.
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In regard to games being balanced/fun at both sides having roughly equal chances at high skill levels, I partially agree. I think its best when the game overall roughly matches that, otherwise you might have a game where there are not enough casuals to support the game. Even then, if we look at the last stats BHVR gave us, I feel like the opposite has happened.
https://us.v-cdn.net/6030815/uploads/FBWSHC6I5I0S/dbdkillrateslatest.png
Now I can understand if you were to take the argument that 4 SWF is close, but my argument is that soloq odds of winning drop too sharply. I mean heck, look at the difference between 3 SWF + soloq vs 4 SWF, 1 solo drops ~6% (additively). Even all skill levels have soloq dropping ~1% (additively). If anything, all High MMRs should be higher than their Overall equivalent, but never exceeding 50%.
Our current problem is soloq is too detrimental to win chances, so more information should be shared between Survivors. Stuff like perks seen in the pause menu (not lobby, since people might dodge adepts/No Mithers), anti-facecamp bar visible to all Survs, and a dialogue wheel with lines like "Someone help" and "The Killer is near me" to say when someone should head over or stick on gens.
Yeah that was kinda my point with 'what DC would have been spun positively (Survivor sided in this context) for the stats'. You got a quick double tap that basically meant you were so much more skilled than them, that it was your game to lose by AFKing by 3-5 minutes or something similarly extreme. It was going to be a 3K/4K (Hatch RNG/slug dependent), and now that Killer win is not being counted towards the stats.
Exactly, but guess what is the most embarrassing thing? Seeing actual players with 3k+ hours in the game getting two-tapped. And that is the case quite often.
Matchmaking: I think game health was better under Emblems being the matchmaking driver, even if newer players who played too much, sometimes got to Red ranks in their first month. Also too many people are ego-driven, and think they cannot be assailed since they reached the tippy top of matchmaking. This game has the top 25% in the highest rank, whereas games like CS or SC or League or DOTA2 have at the
minimumtop 1% as their highest rank. That is such a huge range of skill levels. Where I think most Killer complaints come from is the 75-80% (the weakest of the top 25%) range, since by the time they reach the 85-95% range, they have too many weaker Survivors all but guaranteeing a Killer win.
also true. The soft MMR cap in this game is so low that we can freely say there is no such thing as high MMR. You can be a player at the hard MMR cap and still be matched with people at the very bottom of soft MMR cap because game sees everything from 1600 to 2200MMR as if it's just 1600. The worst thing is that we won't see any improvement in terms of matchmaking because majority community just wants instant queues instead of accurate queues.
Skill: I too think no matter what, I can outskill my opponents (or learn from my loss and know how to win the next one), but as a linked concept, I can't outskill my teammates for a positive result. Soloq will always drag people down (and to be quite honest, my SWF as well - we are having fun from shared enjoyment/goofing off, not winning). I do think that when a SWF is all individually skilled players, going to the extreme to call out clocks, they can be nearly unstoppable, I just find those too rare to concern myself with. I don't stay in my house for fear of a meteor strike or lightning strike, so I think I can survive the 5 minutes of a sweat SWF teabagging since it will be over quick enough.
yeah, because survivor is a role driven by working as a team, and one player playing significantly worse than others can ruin the match for the rest. In terms of pub SWFs, majority of them are rather annoying than good and i think that they are way overrated in terms of difficulty to vs. when it comes to pub matches.
Different goals: Yeah I think this is the most fair argument for kill/win stats being out of whack. So many Survivor tomes are outright 'throw the game' tomes. What is even worse, is that you never know if someone is catching back up on older tomes, which also are throw tomes. The most recent tome I gotta say had surprisingly minimal 'throw the game' type challenges, and I just hope more tomes aren't just made to artificially adjust kill rates for a short time.
EXACTLY <3
Tomes and rest of challenges are outright the most unhealthy aspect of the game when mixed with soloQ. For example, i will do gens, be chased by killer and actually progress the match, while random Sable (sorry i just hate Sables lol) will go and search whole map for chests to open, or attempt to camp pallets in order to complete "stun the killer" challenges. While some other player will just attempt to farm BPs by working with the killer and sell all of us out.
Now I can understand if you were to take the argument that 4 SWF is close, but my argument is that soloq odds of winning drop too sharply. I mean heck, look at the difference between 3 SWF + soloq vs 4 SWF, 1 solo drops ~6% (additively). Even all skill levels have soloq dropping ~1% (additively). If anything, all High MMRs should be higher than their Overall equivalent, but never exceeding 50%
this is also a very big matchmaking problem and it's sheer inaccuracy. There is quite a low chance that you will get 3 teammates that actually match your skill level when you play survivor, meaning soloQ will just be a fest of losing. Regarding SWFs, i think stats are not as high as they should be because there are still many SWFs playing in the way just annoy the killer (sabo builds = all 4 getting bled out; constantly lurking for flashlight saves = not progressing the game because nobody does gens).
And i would again like to add some stats from DBDL 1v1 ladders (bandaid for DBD ranked not existing) and compare them with pub matches:
Average chase time per hook state against low mobility killers: 90s
Average chase time per hook state against high mobility/S-tier killers: 60s
Average pub chase time per hook state across all MMR: 20s
Average pub chase time per hook state at soft MMR cap: 22s (proving the statement how terrible matchmaking is).
Conclusion: Average pub player lasts 4.5 times less in a chase than an actual good player against low mobility killers and 3 times less than an actual good player against high mobility/S-tier killers.
Our current problem is soloq is too detrimental to win chances, so more information should be shared between Survivors. Stuff like perks seen in the pause menu (not lobby, since people might dodge adepts/No Mithers), anti-facecamp bar visible to all Survs, and a dialogue wheel with lines like "Someone help" and "The Killer is near me" to say when someone should head over or stick on gens.
Perk loadouts visible to every teammate in lobby is extremely needed, i would also be all for adding voice chat, but i think barely anybody would use it at all.
And yeah, more ways to share info with other teammates would be just as good.
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@Yoshirama said:
Funny how people always say “if they nerf this perk then I’ll run 4 slowdown perks” like, killers being doing that since ever lmao.
The combo needs some nerfs because how easy is to get value and is strong.
value gets cancelled completely by dropping item at the edge of the map where no survivors will come close to, and killer wastes 2 perk slots that way. The statement "it is strong" is same as if i said Devour Hope is strong while it is literally useless when you cleanse the totem (and countering Weave + Franklins is even easier since your perks give you much more value than items anyway)
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- The state of MMR in this game is similar as if it doesn't exist at all. Losing as either side within current MMR system is a skill issue.
- Sabo in general serves no purpose in this game, it's plain unhealthy and idk why has whole mechanic been buffed at all.
- Genrushing in general doesn't exist, it just looks like gens are flying fast in most matches, that means you need to work on generating better map pressure, also bring gen related perks to help you.
- Prove Thyself is awful perk because 2+ survivors being on a same gen = less pressure applied to killer.
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@arcaneGospel said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3785416#Comment_3785416
Huntress, Spirit, AND Wraith exist, man! I don't understand how SM and Knight are the ones people care about here.
fr, and also, Knight and SM are far more interactive in terms of counterplay than Huntress. Like please tell me how is it fun to be permazoned by Huntress constantly winding up a hatchet during the chase. Wraith is at least more interactive, agree in regards of Spirit. Ohh and, let's add one more killer on the list, Pyramid Head, especially M2 faking.
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i was bored of trying to find the real answer to OP post, but if it's really that difficult for you to drop your item at the edge of the map and make killer waste 2 perks, i don't know what to tell you.
Weave + Franklins is literally the most overcomplained perk combo in the game
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3785188#Comment_3785188
What match where someone wasn't fully feeling it going to ever be considered positively towards the stats?
My matches (where I never go in with the plan to camp/tunnel, and only match Survivor energy) nearly never have people hard give up unless I have say… 6 hooks at 5 gens. That match is already won by Killer, and Survivors giving up is merely speeding up the foregone conclusion.
I'm not sure I'm getting the last paragraph's point. If Survivors are so bad it makes the game ez pz lemon squeezy, then isn't Killer a near guaranteed win? That would be annoying to play Survivor with a near guaranteed loss, wouldn't it?
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Overall my complaints are that Survivor's negative extremes are too low (like -3/10 instead of 1/10 like it should be), and those extremes need to be minimized. If a baby teammate is tunneled, as you put it, they are going down in chase regardless, so if they give up, the Kobes did nothing to change the outcome, it already was a Killer win. When a Killer decides to bleedout a Survivor seeking the 4k, that forces 4m of wasted time, compared to exit gates tbags for 2m (not even accounting for minimum 2 victim's 4m being wasted in the bleedout scenario). When someone hard Kobes/DCs against specific Killers, because that Killer is so unfun to go against that a Kobe/DC is more fun, maybe that Killer should be looked at, or Killer bans in place to make sure that only fun matches exist (personally I recommend 1ban/5 Killers round down). That also ensures that Killers players are only going against people that want to go against that Killer (although Killers might need a map ban to prevent their own negative extremes like Ghosty on Autohaven or Billy on RPD, with map offerings negating a ban, but only placing the map back in the pool, not forcing it, or simply refunding the map offering and doing nothing).
here is my recap from last 5 matches:
3 of 5 matches, first survivor got two-tapped after i found them quite fast into the match. Immediately after got downed, boom, i hear sound cue and bot exchanges them. The remaining of two, only one person in both matches was skilled in terms of chase, others were so terrible they didn't even know how to hug environment objects in loops.
Which draws my answer to your question regarding my last paragraph. What makes killer get an almost guaranteed win and survivors almost guaranteed loss. Your answer hides in 3 things:
- matchmaking
- skill
- different goals in the match (win, xy amount of glyphs, random challenge)/simply griefing.
First of all, matchmaking is awful, thanks to community that wanted very low queue times and paid the price of very inaccurate skill level of people in their lobby. This means that your soloq matches are pretty much going to be pretty colorful in terms of players skill.
Second, skill. A huge paradox in dbd that is mutual to both low and high hours players. People lack basic ingame skills, especially regarding the strongest and most important one, chase.
Average chase time per hook stage of a high skill player (info from DbDL 1v1 ladders and tourneys) against A-D tier killers is 1min 30s. Minimum chase time against S tiers is 60s (2 perk slots taken only)
Now let's compare that with average pub match.
~60s average individual chase time...per whole match woth full perk loadout. Meaning average survivor lasts 60s in chase for all hook stages total, average skilled survivor lasts the same in just one chase against S-tier killers as average survivor lasts in whole match. That draws conclusion that skill is the biggest problem of survivors performing so bad.
Lastly, regarding fun, it's a very subjective term so balancing around "fun" is not possible in any game because everyone has different definitions of fun. Games are meant to be balanced around both sides having as close to 50% winrate on high skill levels.
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i think 2 gen perks are pretty much enough.
I stopped using aura perks long ago since you build up game sense with time, and i managed to have a final go-to build consisting of Pop-PainRes-Corrupt-Agitation
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@SweetbutaPsycho said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3785146#Comment_3785146
Yeah I see it the same way but apparently the survivors that play this way mostly dont (according to many endgame chats I had when facing this combo)
Ur just supposed to eat the DS and take the unnecessary timeloss that is more or less forced on you since you didnt even tunnel and then after you got hit, go chase another survivor and have the cycle repeat cause otherwise you're breaking the rules.
For me personally this viewpoint just makes no sense and it amazes me that it is apparently so widespread that this is what's supposed to happen in that Situation
deciding to intentionally tunnel a survivor that does this is literally just letting ego take you over and lose you the match, i will also never understand the viewpoint
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both are overhated.
Huntress literally exists lol
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@LadyOwO said:
Usually the first survivor I find is quite good at looping me so I just make sure I get them out of the game as fast as possible. Running apot of slow down perks helps alot when I play doctor. Especially on maps like RPD Where surge is really handy
if you manage to get a good looper out of the game fast, they are not a good looper lol
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@Seraphor said:
This is an invitation to tunnel. They want you to remove them from the game as fast as possible.
It can make tunneling a little less effective, so it could feasibly help their teammates escape. However eliminating that one survivor early still grants you the upper hand. Less of an upper hand if they didn't have OtR and DS to waste your time, but an upper hand nonetheless.
So tunneling them out is the correct play. It's what they want after all.
if they are very well aware of what they are doing, you are going to lose against them most of the time, since anti-tunneling builds are the most powerful builds in existence when used aggressively.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3785079#Comment_3785079
You are right! It would be foolish to simply say kill rate = winrate, lets do some math! Wait, I just did the math in another thread!
Hmm, we get 50% Killer, 22% Survivor, 28% Draw. Or if you want to take out Draws, ~69% Killer, ~31% Survivor. Heck, even if you want to be favorable and give the Draws out as 50-50 (14% each) for both sides, that still is 64% Killer vs 36% Survivor. So when you do the math, it actually is even MORE Killer sided.
As far as the inflated numbers concept, I agree. When DCs don't count towards the stats, and Survivor DCs are far more common, that would mean someone who had to actually play through a match with a teammate DC felt the loss, but their pain was discounted/ignored by the BHVR stats. In other words, DCs mean the killrate is even higher than stated/aimed.
That's why I think using a killrate = winrate is actually a generous metric when speaking against Killer specific complaints, because it is the most favorable to Killers. I would do the same when speaking against Survivor complaints, to give them the best odds when I oppose the specific complaint being voiced.
(Also as far as MMR specific things, it is based on the MMR of each person, and reduced per subsequent person. That means if you kill a babysurv first, you get the least MMR. Also if you kill a godsurv first, you could theoretically go positive if all the other Survs were also godsurvs [with your loss against a godsurv making you lose the least amount of MMR].)
Edit: Fixed some mistyped numbers
don't forget that only matches with DC don't count. Every other kind of match where survivors forfeit in any other way is counted into stats.
My matches as killer, honestly even after a break, i saw survivors giving up even more (depipping removal had even more impact on it). I chase a survivor, they get...stuck at object during chase and get literally 2-tapped. I had a chase just like that against a 4k hours survivor yesterday.
But when you look at average total chase times of individual survivors (for all both hook stages during which they are alive) per match are around 1 minute, you just realize how bad average survivor is.
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comparing DBD and TCM is like comparing e.g. Need for Speed and Forza Horizon franchises, they look similar, but are completely different games so there's no point in the "which one's better?" debates
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3785066#Comment_3785066
Oh, so survivors are bad for not wanting to have to pull off all kinds of extra stunts to counteract a killer going AFK at hook, but it's fine for killers to throw a tantrum when they don't want to adapt to their free kills coming in 20 seconds later.
average killer actually looks for way to adapt, while all i see from average surv when they lose miserably is DC/hook suicide and then go for a -rep on killer's profile.
So tell me which side is the pettier one then
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@Langweilig said:
I can completely understand you, but many people me included want to get value from their perks and when the killer doesn‘t tunnel those perks are wasted, so you throw yourself in the killer to get them to work. Not the smartest move for shure. At least I did not complain about it as I did it.
if you are skilled at chases, it's actually an extremely smart move.
But honestly, majority of survivors expect this combo to be like "pray to god killer will expect you to have it so that they avoid going for you"
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@ImWinston said:
- Devs have an obsessive attention to killer gameplay for the last 2 years, they think that if a killer has fun, then the survivors will have a good game too. How many years has it been since a single new object has been introduced for survivors? How many years has it been since a new "mechanic" was introduced in survivor gameplay? (can we consider "chemical trap" a new mechanic?) even the 2Vs8 mode from the point of view of survivor gameplay was an absolute bore, eliminating practically everything and reducing survivors only to doing m1 to heal teammates or m1 to repair generators. how many years have they been asked to add simple "text lines" to help the Soloq. in the recent PTB there were hundreds of reports asking for a buff new survivors perk... they literally didn't touch anything. I'm starting to lose hope.
chase, the most fun aspect aspect of the game is literally still a very strong meta. OTR, DS, exhaustion perks, there are so many non gen related perks in game that are very strong, but average survivor just refuses to learn how to use benefits properly.
Only ones i've seen talking how "survs are just supposed to heal and M1 on gens" are Distortion users
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@Predated said:
Already predicting this because more and more survivors are legitimately getting tired of it.
So 85% of games:
Pop, pain res, grim embrace. Almost a neccesity on low mobility killers, removes all interactive options for survivor on high mobility killers.
So a quick chaser like blight, even if survivors do 3 gens seperately, pain res applies to the highest gen, block all gens when they run off, pop once its unblocked.
The counterplay to this? Hiding. Waiting till the killer has left, finish a gen, hide again. No chases, no running around the map. Just hiding.
I miss the days when gen regression was mutually exclusive with Ruin and Pop like Exhaustion perks. Cant wait to see regression perks become mutually exclusive again. Individually buffed, but exclusivePop got kicked out of meta, it's now solid A-tier on high mobility killers that can afford to PainRes + Pop gens across the map, while it's now B tier at best on rest of the killers, and definitely not your gen protection option for M1 killers lol.
Gen regression meta in general now is not even nearly strong as it used to be, but it's still meta because gens im general are still the main problem for killers across all skill ranges.
And honestly, gen regression meta is definitely nearly as lame as people try to present it, you definitely don't want things like Endfury to become true meta again
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@Aven_Fallen said:
What does it matter if the killer is slugging for the 4k, you practically already lost so just tab out and do something else.
And the Killer already won. The Killer is basically just slugging for a 4K while already winning the game, just for the Ego, wasting the time of others.
with this logic, three remaining survivors trying to save that one hooked survivor during endgame are also egoing
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3783368#Comment_3783368
Hmmm the people who see their skin the entire match, or the people whose opponents see the skin, garsh that's surprising! /s
As far as tunnels, I think this is based on intent. If the Bubba is autopiloting towards the closest Survivor, that's fine, but when he purposely slugs the person bodyblocking to get the tunnel on the other person, that is what people mean by 'sweaty'.
For 'playing fair', the game is designed around a 60% kill rate, so the game is Killer sided definitionally. Same with the perks, the Survivor perks are designed to have 1/4th the impact of Killer perks. I mean are you going to seriously make the argument that 16 No Mithers would be more powerful than 4 random Killer perks, simply because they have 4x the perks? There has to be a calculation involved in perk strength, and you just ignored that.
At least you did learn your lesson and uninstall. I'm foolish enough to still play this game on occasion with friends, and am often miserable as a result.
game has 5 possible outcomes for killer: 0k, 1k, 2k, 3k and 4k. Count each outcome as 20%. Technical killer bare win condition for minimum MMR points gain is 3k, meaning if average killrate is 60%, winrate is close to 50%. Nobody focuses percentage for the game to be killer sided (even though it is still far from killer sided), it's just that players don't understand basic math behind killrates and that killrate ≠ winrate.
And let's not forget how many additional factors impact killrates and are counted in the percentage, such as failing to kobe and intentionally speeding up dying process on hook and griefing teammates by working with the killer.
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if you add that kind of accessibility thing, what would be the point of playing her at the end? Honestly i've never seen e.g. CS2 having accessibility features for people hard of hearing in terms of direction of sounds
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3785026#Comment_3785026
'This tactic is so broken that it makes people quit the game. Imma complain about measures taken to counteract it.'
Forum killers, man.
"killers chase power is too OP because i don't wanna learn how to loop them" kind of analogy :D
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@ArkInk said:
I think it's a great change tbh. Whenever I see a survivor hit second stage or die because of the timer, it's usually because of Solo Q uncoordination or active meddling from the killers part that I don't think should be encouraged aside from a couple context dependent instances.
The extra 10 seconds isn't groundbreaking, but it lessens an annoying scenario as survivor without really changing strategy or gameplay on the killer side of things.
ofc it isn't groundbreaking against average survivors who don't know what hook pressure is
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@BlightedDolphin said:
Your stats show my main problem with solo queue perfectly. Balance wise, aside from some QoL changes, it’s fine for the most part but most games just aren’t fun.
Give some base kit form of anti-tunnel, deal with slugging for the 4K, and please do something to stop everyone giving up over nothing.
this perspective of soloQ is very dangerous for game balance because it lacks depth of looking into the problem.
You see, the only actual game balance related problems with soloQ are bad matchmaking (because people wanted shorter queues) and no pregame loadout visibility to other teammates.
Other than that, everything is purely related to players.
Tunneling, camping and slugging wouldn't be nearly as successful as they are against any at least a bit more skilled soloQ team, but they are successful against average soloQ teams because you will always have people getting 2-tapped in chases due to lack of chase knowledge, making camping look op because they cobe at 1st hook if killer camps them, make tunneling look op because of 1st reason and make slugging op because they are too scared to go and get their teammate up.
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3785026#Comment_3785026
'This tactic is so broken that it makes people quit the game. Imma complain about measures taken to counteract it.'
Forum killers, man.
"i DC because xy = killer is OP because of xy" is the worst and most incorrect analogy i have yet to see in this game
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@Firellius said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/424562/increased-hook-timers-is-a-bad-change
Gen regression doesn't factor into camping.
70s hook states will give survivors more time to work gens, more time to reset and move in to trade, more time to apply reassurance.
If the killer camps, yeah. That's the point. An anti-camp change is not supposed to spare camping tactics.
this overall makes killer pressure worse
Not if you don't camp.
let's not use "camping" as an excuse when yall would just try to kobe in front of the killer just in order to go next anyways, making this change barely noticeable, this change will literally be noticeable the most in high skill matches even with no camping since a survivor with actual skill knows what hook pressure actually means.
And anyone presenting this change as anything about camping definitely has very bad understanding of the game.
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soloQ is not free for all, it's what community made every other community member believe into
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@GolbezGarlandGabrant said:
Don't realize that SoloQ survivor is selfish even without the perk.
It's every man for themselves and the other players owe nothing to you.
Don't like how you're playing? People will turn on you and sabotage your game.
Run perks like Empathic or Better Together and that information will be used against you.
Hooked during End game? You're not getting saved. They won't even bother.
SoloQ survivor is a dog eat dog world and there is no guaranteed cooperation from the other players.
It's probably why there is a team based rating based on escapes because it's so bad.
this mindset is why soloQ is terrible btw. Everyone playing each for their own instead of playing as a team.
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@Unusedkillername said:
I don't get it.
Pop and pain res were the best 2 perks in the game on killer when they were nerfed. Let them stay a little weaker or if you are feeling spicy nerf them again
All the best killer perks are related to slowing gens down directly or indirectly. So let them be nerfed.
Distortion is being talked about because Otzdarva stated the obvious (being able to avoid the killer and let your team soak pressure is unhealthy) and it also broken and overshadows perks like shadow step that do a similar job but worse. players are defending it it should be nerfed.
WOO is the most used perk on Survivor according to Nighlight and it gives you perfect valuable info on everything that is up or down near you in Chase stop saying it is a perk to learn the game and not op it should be nerfed.
Every strong build has an exhaustion perk if it does not it's not as strong as it could be but we won't talk about how that hold back perk variety on survivor. They should be nerfed.
The only thing I think is acceptable to be out of line when it comes to strength are harder killers being stronger than the easier killers and vice versa the degree can be argued but its good that blight is better than ghostface or that hillbilly is better than knight if it was the other way around this game would not last as long.
The point is some things in this game are disproportionality strong. Stop saying stuff like,
Well actually [insert perk here] is actually pretty weak because [insert reason here] and that's why I use it every game. bruh stop.
edit small grammer mistake
Pain Res was literally the most healthy killer perk in it's previous state, Pop was a bit overtuned, but only 5% would do the work.
However, did gen slowdown stop being the meta? No, but not because it's "still strong" but because gens are still in a state where you actually need perks in optimal level of play in order to handle those speeds.
On the other hand, on killer side we have perks like DMS and Pentimento that are the actual problem due to which many non overpowered perks were nerfed.
Ohh, and let's talk about way too strong survivor perks/perk combos/item/addons that are being safe from any nerfs:
Plot Twist + Power Struggle (lose-lose situation for killer)
Plot Twist + DS (another lose-lose situation for killer)
OTR (all those effects chunked up in whole 80s?????)
Bardic + Hyperfocus + Stake Out (does it need any further explanation)
any Sabo related perk/item/addon
Syringes on Medkits
etc.
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@MaddieMage said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3712409#Comment_3712409
we’re not talking about tournaments. We’re talking about normal gameplay in which the vast majority of matches don’t go the way you guys are describing. Youre all describing high level, coordinated SWFs who are running very specific builds all together which only happens in the top MMR games, according to BHVRs own stats.
In the low and mid tier games survivors aren’t going into matches to play like this and especially not at solo Q levels. It really seems like killer mains are taking that 1-2 matches where they got destroyed by survivors running DS, OTR, BU, FTP and using that to argue this “weaponizing DS” theory.
Even so, the OP is correct. Survivors do not want to be slugged so if you slug then even IF they have unbreakable (which they can only use once) it takes time to recover. It’s not an instant stand up. If you slug the person who may be running DS, you still have 2 survivors occupied and if they need another teammate to pick them up, that’s 3 survivors occupied which is a win for the killer.
For the “but I’m trying to play nice and not tunnel” crowd. Thats admirable BUT (and I say this as a survivor who hates all the constant tunneling) if you’ve got a survivor who is throwing themselves in your face, body blocking and trying to get you to eat their DS: tunnel them out. It’s one thing to tunnel someone off hook at 5 gens who isn’t in your face. It’s quite another to tunnel someone who is clearly going out of their way to get your attention on them. They want your attention so give it to them!
you can literally do the same in soloQ.
And if you think we should look at the things and balance them around the average skill (terrible btw), we shouldn't.
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@Junylar said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3712408#Comment_3712408
In SoloQ, there is no such thing as "team". Your "teammates" are more often than not more dangerous for you than the killer, sometimes even cooperating with the killer to lead him to you and kill you, taking hatch as a payment from the killer. I never had to hide from the killer as much as I regularly have to hide from a teammate who is trying to lead the killer to me. Even MMR does not count survivors as a team, for MMR it's literally 1v1v1v1v1, everyone for themselves, it's not even a joke. So why should soloQ players care about their opponents when they play free-for-all? Until this situation is fixed, there is no point even talking about "team" in soloQ.
this is not about the game, but about the mindset of players lol. You can actually play with some quite decent team that literally play as mid level SWFs.
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My hot takes:
- Game should actually be balanced around highest skill level of play, because balancing it around lower levels makes it far worse.
- Comp scene is actually much more fun than pub matches, people hating on it are just bad.
- Quad anti-tunneling build survivor team is much more powerful than genrush squads.
- Tunneling is not OP strategy, people are just way too used to giving up so fast and not learning game basics in order to win.
- Aura reading perks remove game sense aspect from the game, but are not overpowered (NTH exception).
- Saying that you are using Distortion just in order to know which info perks killer has is just an excuse for being bad at chases.
- Old Ruin + Undying / Eruption + CoB were much worse meta than the current Pop + Pain Res will ever be.\
- Sabotaging hooks and all perks, items and addons that revolve around it are extremely unhealthy for the game.
- It's much more fun to play against a quad slowdown killer than against an Endfury + Coup killer
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Let's give a proper clarification on why OP's post is completely false and how weaponizing anti-tunnel perks is the most powerful strategy in the game when you have at least some knowledge of how to properly play the game.
First of all, we have three of the most popular DS synergies:
- DS + OTR
- DS + Plot Twist
- DS + OTR + Plot Twist.
Each one of these synergies is very powerful, and third is extremely powerful. But for now, let's stick with the DS only.
If an unhooked survivor bodyblocks another survivor and gets downed while their DS timer is ticking, killer's time is already being wasted by being forced into a situation where they have to either eat up the 5s DS, waste 20m of stun distance + chasing that survivor or slug the DS survivor, start a new chase and have the downed survivor be fully reset by another survivor. Remember that during this process, at least one survivor is left peacefully doing a gen.
DS combined with OTR makes you gain even more distance because you can bodyblock with endurance from OTR and then force a DS down. That means almost twice as much time already wasted than just with DS.
Now onto the DS + Plot Twist. You won't get bodyblocked with DS + Plot Twist, but survivor will down themselves usually right before you are able to get a hit. Either eat up the DS and continue the chase with too much time wasted, or slug the downed survivor while they are able to reset themselves completely without other survivors (yes, using Plot Twist while DS timer is active doesn't cancel DS), meaning bye bye map pressure.
Third combo, DS + OTR + Plot Twist is literally a mix of all of the above and is considered one of the best perk combos on survivor side. Now, you can also add Deliverance or Wicked into this equation, and any team that is at least kinda good will destroy 99% of the killer roster by having at least 2 people run anti-tunneling builds offensively.
Sooo…you can't weaponize DS?
Once you understand how wasting killer's time and learning how to chase is much more powerful and beneficial than trying to stick to 24/7 sneaky gaming and getting scared of the killer as soon as you hear TR while you are doing the gen, you will realize.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3712409#Comment_3712409
Even if it's net neutral it still isn't in the survivor's favour. It's still not successfully weaponising DS because they don't get anything out of it from DS. All they get is the extension to chase that the bodyblocking gives them at the cost of being slugged, which uses up some kind of resource or requires someone else to peel away from generators if they want to undo it.
Also, I don't care about tournaments, I care about real games.
saying "you don't get value from DS if you don't get picked up" is the same as saying "you don't get value from Corrupt Intervention if you get an early down" lol