NarkoTri1er
NarkoTri1er
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3712404#Comment_3712404
Because you were never going to hook that survivor. You're ignoring them and continuing the chase you were actually interested in to begin with, and if they let themselves get downed to try (and fail) to get your attention, you now have two occupied survivors instead of just one.
That survivor just got unhooked, of course you weren't going to hook them again. If you were we wouldn't be having this conversation because DS would actually warrant activating. The survivor you're interested in for this hypothetical is the unhooker, who you are now completely free to chase unimpeded by someone trying to bodyblock.
please check some high level gameplay, especially tournaments, and see how slugging a person with DS doesn't create nearly as much pressure as you think it does
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because killer players understand the trouble for the team having one player leaving prematurely, while the survivor leaving doesn't care at all. SoloQ thing
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@Moonras2 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3712291#Comment_3712291
I may be wrong but doesn't plot twist require the survivor go down without being hit? I've never ran it so I genuinely don't know. If that's the case, they aren't wasting your time with having to make a first hit or if endurance is in play, a second hit. It would be even less beneficial as now you are going to be even closer to the first person you were chasing without the distance loss from the hit.
The unhooked survivor wouldn't have wasted my time by denying a hook with DS. I never intended to hook them to begin with. My goal was the unhooked person. The free down from the hooked person is just someone not doing anything but wasting a few more seconds of my time and not doing gens. They can't mindgame me, they can't run me to another loop, etc... As they were never my target. Their only option for bodyblocking is to get in my way and make the hits free.
That being said, whether ds was in play or not. The scenario is still the same with 2 people possibly on gens except now there may even be 3. You also may not have the pressure from the slug and may still be in chase with the person you started with.
I'm not directing this next part directly towards you but it's starting to feel like people think survivors shouldn't be doing gens at all. A killer shouldn't be able to keep all 4 survivors off gens while they are chasing someone. There is/should always be at least one person on a gen but one or two is much better than three or four on them.
yes, Plot Twist works withoug getting downed, meaning you can use Plot Twist after getting unhooked, or provoke killer into a chase and Plot Twist right before they are about to hit you, meaning easy value out of it.
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3712377#Comment_3712377
That's not a lose/lose situation. That is a lose/win situation, because having one survivor slugged and one in chase is better for you than just having one in chase.
It used to be a lose/lose scenario because ignoring the survivor with DS meant they could progress the game in your face. Now, if you ignore them and they want to bait you, they have to waste time running around after you and trying to bodyblock.
how is it a lose/win situation if you are denied a hook after downing a survivor and are forced into another chase, especially if the unhooker was a healthy survivor?
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@jesterkind said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3712291#Comment_3712291
Remember that the alternative to this situation is the unhooked survivor not bodyblocking, and instead going to work on generators.
In the alternative scenario, you have three survivors consistently on gens while you're in chase. I'm sure you'll agree there's at least some amount of extra time in chase that would be worth it in order to cut down the gen efficiency by a full third?
you can have just 2 survivors working on gens and be much more effective as a team than 4 survivors going for gens :D
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@Moonras2 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3712269#Comment_3712269
You are looking at it wrong. You won't be wasting time finding another survivor because you will have been chasing them the entire time. The point is that if someone tries to bodyblock with DS, you keep chasing the first person you were after. If they block you in some way, just hit them and continue chasing the first survivor. If it's an endurance hit, then still, keep chasing the first survivor and repeat step one.
You shouldn't be losing the first survivor you were chasing because someone tries to bodyblock with DS. They are basically giving you a free slug while still chasing the first survivor. In some cases they may even run their DS out in the time it takes. All this chase you have 2 survivors not working on gens. It may cause the initial chase to take longer but shouldn't cause you to lose that person during the chase.
now look at it actually from the killer's perspective.
You are chasing the unhooker. Unhooked person goes their way to bodyblock you with basekit BT or just simply waste your time. You down them, you slug them. Now the unhooker is the one that is being chased while unhooked survivor wasted your time denying a hook. There is still one survivor peacefully doing a gen, or even two if the downed survivor with DS has Plot Twist (yes, DS with Plot Twist is an ultimate lose-lose for the killer).
This means you have huge chunks of your time wasted while you have 1-2 survivors doing gens constantly. Keeping pressure on survivors to hold them off gens is 100% reliable against survivors bad in chase who don't know the value of wasting killer's time, but against teams that know what they are doing, you are pretty much going to be cooled by having 1-2 survivors constantly and successfully waste your time, while the other ones do gens.
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@jesterkind said:
I've seen a fair amount of discussion around the forums lately about whether or not survivors weaponising DS is a problem, or how to fix the problem of survivors weaponising DS, and rather than toss a response out into the sea of answers in a thread that isn't really about what I have to say anyway, I figured I'd make my own post.
My problem with these threads is that the central claim is rarely examined, so let's do that here. Can survivors currently weaponise DS?
No.
They can certainly try, they can run directly into your face and start trying to bodyblock, but they can't actually force it anymore. The best they can do is try and make themselves enticing bait, but it's always on the killer to fall for it, and the killer can always avoid eating the DS.
If you're in this position, the counterplay is extremely simple: Ignore them. If they're in a tight doorway, hit them, then ignore them. That's it. Weaponising DS no longer exists.
Worst case scenario you're slugging one survivor and chasing a second, which is obviously more in your favour than if that first survivor went to go do generators somewhere- and that's the worst case scenario.
so, the killer can avoid the DS and waste the time on finding another survivor while the one that bodyblocked with DS gets to be reset? That's literally still a lose-lose situation lol
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Oni without Splintered Hull/Wooden Oni mask.
Singularity without Soma Family Photo (an addon that gives true power to this killer)
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so, DS will now truly have 5s stun (instead of 3.5s apart of animation), what does it mean?
- Blight, Nurse and Billy will be next to completely unaffected with this change, while killers that lack mobility will be hurt so much .
- Aggressive use of DS with perks like OTR, Plot Twist and Unbreakable will be even more powerful (already is extremely powerful)
- Skill needed for using perk? Gone, 5s stun removes the part with knowledge of where to force a down. Now you will avoid getting punished for getting downed in a deadzone.
People truly don't know what kind of power 3s DS holds, nor will ever know, you will always see the generic "just don't tunnel" replies which prove even further how clueless big part of community is.
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@Valuetown said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3703855#Comment_3703855
Just because they take "skill" to perform doesn't justify the fact that they are bugs and glitches. Wesker hug techs are not just for "style points." They allow you to get m2s in places where if they didn't exist, it would be impossible to do so based on the design of the power.
have you ever heard of bhopping and surfing in CS games maybe?
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@100PercentBPMain said:
Plague and Legion definitely feel S tier. Slinger though seems really spicy and scary.
Getting speared and Tombstoned sounds horrifying.
Legion feels still too weak to pull up a steamroll together with Plague despite her infection. On the other hand, Oni would literally not have to worry about Blood Orbs economy nor having to get first hit
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@dwight444 said:
yes, despite this ppl will make threads as if:
- they face it every game
- it's successfully pulled off in every game that they face it in
most of the time it's nothing more than 2 wasted perk slots
the fact that many people just plain use it wrong doesn't mean it shouldn't be addressed.
It pushes killer into a loss-loss situation and gives 40m of free distance to two survivors, which is actually insane when survivors actually have skill
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2k is considered as a draw by core game SBMM.
Community has various definitions of a loss, tho the most well known definition is that 3k+ gate escape is considered as loss
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@sinkra said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3701837#Comment_3701837
I've been saying this, making the game so killer sided doesn't make it make more enjoyable for killers. Winning game after game without much effort gets old fast. When many killers feel the need to handicap themselves to make it more challenging says a lot.
that's when they actually switch over to tourneys and scrims where they actually have a huge challenge and handicapping yourself becomes a big "NO"
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@Ilikechips said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3701665#Comment_3701665
Every killer is receiving buffs. See the various reworks aka buffs to killers over the last bunch of patches. There will continue to be reworks aka buffs to various killers in the future. Anything to push the kill rates even higher that they are now.
Overpowered twins are on the way.
Haddonfield nerf aka killer buff is on the way.
You are under the opinion that certain killers need buffs. That's fine.
When does it end though?
When kill rates are 60%, 65%, 70%. When killer gets so easy you can tap your little finger on the mouse a couple of times for an easy win and some cheap endorphins?
When is enough enough?
I always say, it's only going to get worse for survivors. This is a fact. Solo escape rate was 38% before huntress buff, twins buff, Haddonfield nerf etc etc. It's going to be around 30% soon.
Solo is awful to play. It will only get worse.
You will get your killer buffs. The devs want the game to be easy mode for you, so they are on the way.
last time i checked, people were saying that they play for fun and don't care about winning and game balance "didn't matter". Now the same people are constantly bringing up killrates that are literally heavily pumped by them and are complaining about killer sided game (it's still survivor sided at the top skill level with 0 restrictions on survivor side) and game balance.
Why did balance not matter in old dbd when you could literally steamroll killers with the least amount of skill possible, why does it have to matter now?
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Plague would literally be a best support for Oni, since you either choose to cleanse and give her stronger power or you choose to play injured and give free power to Oni.
Other killers are kinda meh, you don't get that much of benefits
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@VomitMommy said:
Issue is SBMM use basically only worst things it can bring.
It simply makes game "sweatier", but you have nothing to get from it as a player. You can't see it, you don't get anything for it.
It's more like a punishment than reward…I am not saying ranks were perfect, but they separated regularly playing from new / after break players. That seemed good enough for me.
first week after rank reset would be literal hell for every newer player
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@Brightened said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3701440#Comment_3701440
That's not true in a solo queue game with 3 other random players. But I think that makes my point exactly.
what does killer have to do with your teammates? They didn't choose who you are gonna play with lol
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Youtube>How to chase as survivor>Search button
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@Reinami said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700761#Comment_3700761
Its not esports that is the problem. Esports was around a long time. It is skill based matchmaking that is the problem. And not just with DBD, its an industry problem.
Back in my day, there was no skill based matchmaking. You just joined a random CS server or Quake Clan Wars server, and your teammates and opponents were whoever they happened to be. You queued up for a match of CoD and you just got matched with whoever you got matched with. If you got destroyed by some really good player, you didn't complain, whine or cry about it, you thought "damn that guy is really good". If you were playing CoD and a guy was destroying everyone in the lobby dropping nukes every game, you generally WANTED to be in that lobby to watch what the guy was doing so you could learn their tricks, or you'd pay attention to the weapons he was using or what perks etc.
If you were that guy, people would compliment you on your skills and sing your praises for being really good. And if you got tired of losing to the guy? You just left the lobby and found another match. Maybe in that new lobby it would be you destroying everyone. Maybe you would take some of the things you learned from the previous lobby and put it to the test in this new one. Maybe you'd start unlocking all the attachments and perks that guy was using in that lobby so you could give it a try. Yeah, you'd probably lose a bunch of games because you never used the UMP before and you don't have attachments. No big deal, you'd grind out a few games and get them so you can start using it.
All of that changed when skill based matchmaking came out. Back then it was called "Trueskill". People started really caring about that number next to their name when it was called trueskill. Before that, the number was just a number that you could grind out if you spent enough time on the game, because the number was usually just XP or some other mechanic. If you were good, it went up faster, but even if you weren't, it still went up every game. But now, people started getting upset when other players in the lobbies were really good and destroying them, because it meant that the number next to their name would go down instead of up. Now suddenly people wanted "fairness" to trump everything in terms of matches. Because if the match wasn't perceived as "fair" then they would start blaming the game for that number next to their name going down. And if they started blaming the game, they'd stop playing, and they'd stop buying. So now the developers honed on on "fairness" against all other qualities.
Once fairness reigned supreme, it meant that when some cool "thing" or "tech" (as we call them in dbd) was discovered, it had to be patched.
Gone were the days of playing MvC2, and having an Iron man do an infinite combo on you and thinking "damn how did you do that?! That was amazing!" Why? well because an infinite combo would be unfair, so we can't have those, gotta patch them out.
Gone were the days of being able to stack killstreaks together in CoD because people found out they can camp good spots, keep safe, and work themselves up to a chopper, and then be able to get a nuke if they focused on getting kills and not dying instead of going for the objectives. Why? well because someone getting 25 kills in a row was seen as "unfair".
Gone were the days of someone figuring out that the Model 1887 in CoD actually had some decent range, and if you dual wield them, it made it so the weakness of it being a single pump action shotgun was mitigated, meaning you could one tap someone if you had good aim. Can't do that because being one tapped would be "unfair" Now the TTK is significantly longer in these games and you have to spend half a clip to kill someone.
Gone were the days of playing Quake, and bunny hopping around a map and using rocket jumps to fly around and timing when the armor and health would spawn so you can show up at the exact right time and gain control of the map. That would be unfair, because bunny hopping was hard, and timing weapons was hard, so we had to add timers for you, and give you auto-bhop.
Gone were the days of playing Halo, and starting with the Pistol, the best OVERALL weapon in the game, that allowed you to take on anyone assuming you could outaim them. Despite the fact that, the shotgun was better at close range, the rockets were better at mid range, and the sniper was better at long range. The pistol could do it all, decently, but in the hands of a skilled player was a deadly weapon. But spawning with a weapon so strong is "unfair" after all.
Gone were the days of playing Halo 2, and having a ton of glitches and "techs" like BXR and BXBB and quad shot. Because those are hard techniques to pull off and not everyone can do it. Making it really "unfair" to those who couldn't.
And lastly. Gone were the days of Super Smash Bros Melee, where you had crazy techniques like wavedashing, and L cancelling that allowed combos to exist, turning this "party game" into a serious and viable competitive sport that was really interesting to watch. Instead we make it so you can just randomly "trip" in the next game for no reason, and remove all of those things so that we can emphasize the "party" game, because after all, wavedashing and L Cancelling are hard, and not everyone can do it, making it really "unfair" for them.
I could continue to go on, but i feel you should get the point at this point. The pursuit of "fairness" and skill based matchmaking has created a situation where games are stale now, everything is the same, and everything is a constant struggle-fest where everyone is doing everything they can to win. Instead of just joining a CoD lobby to have a little fun and mess around with a shotgun, or mess around with care package and maybe get a lucky chopper after only a couple of kills. At the end of the day, you didn't care if you "won" the match, because you still got XP, you still leveled up, you still earned attachments, you still earned perks, you still earned prestige and you still earned achievements. just a little slower than if you had won the match.
This pursuit of "fairness" didn't exist when your "rank" was just tied to how long you played the game for (I.E. CoD prestige) because you were just grinding a higher number and if you were really good, you got it faster, but eventually everyone would get it. Once that number started getting called "Trueskill" people took it as an insult when that number was low, and they started caring. Thus fairness became the supreme god that every developer would continue to push for, without realizing that they were slowly killing their games.
yeah but, the thing with CS is that you had unlimited amount of pub servers with various modes (knife only, zombies, deathmatch, classic, surf, deathrun), while in dbd you have just regional servers with possibility of custom matches, but you truly have to manually find people for those.
And CS 1.6 with all those servers was literally what we can call a party game that didn't need SBMM at all
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the most embarrassing thing for BHVR and definitely most concerning is that these people who are obviously scripting and messing up with jconfig to gain true advantage (and are even recording themselves doing that) are literally not even hiding their names in many cases. That truly shows how terrible anti cheat system in this game is and how easily accessible and edible core game files are.
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@Archol123 said:
Data miners have figured it out pretty well, if you still need an in depth explanation let me know, but roughly it only counts kills or escapes, but nothing else and is viewed as 4 different 1v1s, the killer against each survivor.
pretty much this, tho there are many premises that affect the final MMR points gain/loss per match. I was investigating it and actually managed to come up with my own guide on it. Once you realize how it works, it doesn't look complex at all and pretty much explains why everything feels so bad with it rn.
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@HerInfernalMajesty said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700676#Comment_3700676
What specific things are banned from comp? What about them is broken? I’m just genuinely curious.
For survivors:
-sabo related perks
-luck related perks
-RNG perks in general
-boon perks
-genrush perks (literally genrushing)
-aura reading perks
-Reassurance
-Deliverance, Unbreakable, DH and some more perks are banned against every killer except Nurse, Blight and Spirit
-also, stacking perks is not allowed and depending on killer, you get limited to less perk slots
For killer:
-aura reading perks (excluding Eruption)
-obsession shifting perks
-chase perks that make pallets worthless in some cases
-gen blocking perks
-killer specific restrictions slowdowns wise (only for Blight, Nurse and Spirit
There is much more to cover up here, but consider this as a short version.
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@sinkra said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700989#Comment_3700989
I thought the soft cap started at 1800? 1600 seems low, in other games that means basically intermediate.
it used to be 1800, but due to community complaining a lot over queue times, it got lowered to 1600. Now we have lower queue times and vastly less accurate matchmaking.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700946#Comment_3700946
You are being ranked whether the number is visible or not. And many players are treating it like ranked whether the number is visible or not. The biggest failure of SBMM in DbD is pretending that this isn't a half-baked ranked mode while also not giving players an option for more casual games.
the fact that you are being ranked just for the purpose of being matched with someone with similar skill level to make the matches more fair for you doesn't mean you are playing anything like true ranked mode.
E.g. if you play soccer with your friends for some pure fun, should you be accused of trying to play it like you are in a tournament when you try to distribute players with different skill level even between both teams so you can all have a fun and fair match? Of course not.
And, to be honest, old grade based matchmaking was more of a definition of ranked than SBMM with hidden MMR number will ever be, since back then, you were playing for a clearly visible grade and you were matched with people of similar grade, which made it also much easier to smurf.
Having a hidden MMR/elo number never meant it's a half-baked ranked mode for a game, even the most casual PvP games have it.
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3-4 kills is treated as a win by SBMM for the killer.
Escape is treated as a win by SBMM for the survivor.
You can get max 20 MMR points per match.
Here comes the big problem now, once you reach 1600 MMR (soft MMR cap) you will be matched with everyone between 1600 and 2100 MMR points, and there are already way too many players of different skill levels in that range.
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i love comp scene of dvd, i watch DbDLeague tournaments regularly, but as you noticed, the environment for comp matches is pretty artificial and there are plenty restrictions made in order to balance every aspect out Now, problem with this in the very core game ia the fact that many players won't like it. Not because "omg sweaty comp fest", but because classic pub player will be worse and will complain a lot more than they are now.
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@Halloulle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700942#Comment_3700942
Maybe I'm tired - but I don't quite follow. How exactly does the worst killers having the highest killrates prove how bad the average survivor is? Also what exactly do you mean by balance?
Cause I'm pretty sure I'm missing something here. If not this reads a lot like "everyting is fine - survivors just need to git gut" … which I don't exactly consider constructive.As for the other point: In theory, sure. - But how exactly do you picture four strangers with no means of communications and no means of sharing information and coordinating to play as a team? (I ask because I can't picture that at all. - I can, however, picture people who want to have comms, information sharing and coordination to form premade swf on e.g. discord servers dedicated to swf-ing)
because the worst killers are the ones that basically have no kind of antiloop, proper map pressure and are weak overall against both good soloQ and SWF teams.
And despite i'm all in favor of implementing voice chat into dbd, it actually won't change anything. Comms won't help you in a chase between you and the killer, which is pretty much the most important aspect of survivor gameplay. I was flabbergasted when i once heard a 5k hours player ask me what checkspots are.
What does it tell you? Is lack of comms really one of the biggest problems in dbd? No, it isn't, because in most cases, you wouldn't even be matched against a godtier killer player in terms of macro gameplay knowledge playing a very strong killer. Is this a proper argument because i'm talking about "average" stuff? Not quite, but when you take in mind pickrate of killers that would actually require you to have comms and the extremely low chance of you getting matched against a very good player playing that killer.
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@mizark3 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700932#Comment_3700932
If my matchmaking is tied to a number altered based on my wins/losses, I'm playing ranked. The dev listed in OP's video showed how unranked allowed for highly skilled and unskilled (high winrate/MMR players and low winrate/MMR players) to be in the same match. Saying it isn't ranked doesn't make it true, as you literally are ranked on your results.
The main problem isn't the MMR cap, it's the win condition. The win condition is a blanket kill/escape, instead of the more nuanced gradients that Emblems provided. When we defend MMR, we endorse "we're ignoring how you got there", and making a colossal mistake. Assuming people will 'play nice' was a mistake, and we are foolish children that need to be encouraged with the Emblems guiding our hands.again, having an invisible number determine who you are going to be matched with based on your skill is NOT ranked. It's just about making matches more fair by you not being matched with someone way better or worse than you. Ranked is a mode where you are playing for something visible to everyone, fully optimally.
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@Halloulle said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700724#Comment_3700724
Though: If either of those two is happening a lot of times that should be a clear indication of something being off on the dev/mechanics side, no? You win some, you lose some. - But if you consistently lose you should get to a place where you lose less and get back to the equilibrium stage of "you win some you lose some." Sure, there are petty people who think it's "you win all, you lose none" but overall that's not the complaint people make. The complaint many people make (at the very least many SoloQ players) is that they consistently lose and "lose streaks" are way too long / never really ending.
it would be a problem of game balance if the worst killers weren't having highest killrates. This pretty much proves how bad average survivor is.
SoloQ itself would be much better if people just collectively changed their mindsets and actually played as a team.
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@mizark3 said:
SBMM is ranked, and ranked is only good when you have ranked QoL. Ranked QoL has things like map and Killer bans. SBMM would be fine if I could choose to never face another Plague or Oni or Skull Merchant again. It would also be fine if I could never go to Badham again. Without that basic QoL, we are playing ranked without what makes ranked 'playable'.
This has been my opinion on MMR long before this video came out.**Apr 2024 (before the vid came out), Feb 2024, Oct 2023 (Ranked), Oct 2023 (Bans), Sep 2023. 5 is good but I could probably find more if I put more effort than ctrl-f on my comment history (which only shows the first paragraph more or less).
Edit: playing ranked what → playing ranked without whatSBMM is NOT ranked. Example, League of Legends. Even unranked matches and the literal RNG mode aram have SBMM, ranked is mode where you play for a rank that is visible to everyone.
Back to the main post. I wouldn't say that SBMM has to go. The problem is that soft MMR cap is too low and the 1600+ MMR zone is way overflooded with players of many skill levels. Just tighten MMR up a bit and it will be much better.
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i want to be honest, i love techs in this game and i think crouch tech is one thing that should also stay in the game.
I was always against removing killer techs because they add more skill expression and increase the skill ceiling of a specific killer. Same with survivors, they also have techs and i think crouch tech should be removed only if e.g. Blight's hugtech truly gets removed.
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@solarjin1 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700607#Comment_3700607
i don't know what world these players be living in but no one q up to consistently lose. The whole horror theme gimmick only works on new players for first 100 hours max
tho people love to use it as an excuse when they clearly get outplayed and lose the match.
Remember, my opponent wins and i lose = "they don't play for fun, i didn't have fun"
I win and my opponent loses = "ggez, ur so bad at the game"
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@zacmangaming said:
I get a P100 epic games store cheater, DC with the entire lobby of survivors confirming they're cheating and I'M the one punished with a 15 minute penalty… Thx, BHVR!
15mins happens when you DC from 3 matches in 24h timestamp :D
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@Chaosrider said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700302#Comment_3700302
A strategy that got rise cause of comp players is sure a noobstomper. (though i dont even care for people playing by their own rules) But those arent noobstompers. those are serious gameflaws that are handholding to bad killers to give them some nice times.
comp players are literally not the ones who pushed this strategy in pubs.
And strategies people mainly choose to DC, hook suicide or just simply not learn to counterplay when playing against are NOT gameflaws, it's all about mentality of an average survivor player
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700082#Comment_3700082
Agreed. A huge part of what made playing comp so fun was that it was consistently good players vs good players in an even match. That rarely seems to happen in public matches.
Games usually seems to be a runaway in either direction. I'll have a game where a teammate is found in basement at 5 gens for no reason, or a game where we 4 out and the killer has 3 hooks. It feels like they're matchmaking for a kill rate and not for gameplay.
And maybe they're not. Maybe MMR is usually really close between players in a trial. But it doesn't feel like that, and we have no way of knowing that. I would think you want to be transparent with a well-functioning system. It's not like SBMM is some industry trade secret that other devs are going to steal. This isn't a new problem BHVR is trying to solve. So I don't understand the smoke and mirrors surrounding it. The feedback on it seems to be consistently negative. I'd think you'd want to prove that it's functioning correctly to counter that feedback.
since whole MMR range between 1600 and 2100 is stuck together, you will rarely get someone that has similar MMR as yours.
That's why tournaments and DbDL are much better place to actually expect to play with/against people of similar skill.
The big problem with SBMM is that people would complain when it gets tightened because "boohoo, longer queue times".
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@Chaosrider said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700283#Comment_3700283
So you think tunneling, proxycamping and stacking slowdowns is skillful? Its not.
in what world does losing to a noobstomper strategy make you good and opponent that is using it bad?
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@Chaosrider said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700035#Comment_3700035
So then explain to me why bad killers can easily win against better survivors, but not the other way round? Let me help you: its because the game is unbalanced. Bad players should never win against better players unless those make mistakes.
how and when did those bad killers win against good survivors? How can you tell that killer was bad and survivors were good? And let's not call someone bad because they were tunneling/proxying/slugging that's jus a tantrum thrown as a reaction to killer using strategy survivors don't like.
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@jajay119 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/410960/survivors-hiding-taking-game-hostage
When they address slugging for the 4k this will die out. Let's examine both sides of the coin.
you are comparing stalling the game by not ever progressing it with killer actually running for 4th survivor while 4min timer is ticking for the slugged one
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@Ilikechips said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700002#Comment_3700002
I understand how data works. Like I said 60% Kill rate means that most of the time survivors will die and most of the time killer will kill.
That means that killer is baby mode easy and survivor is horrible.
Yet you want the kill rate to increase even more.
Simple.
yeah, let's completely ignore the fact that hook suicides, throwing matches, SWFs playing simply to annoy the killer without the goal of advancing the match and various other non-balance related factors exist.
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@MagicDragon said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3699344#Comment_3699344
of course survivors trying to survive would be a bannable offense🙄🙄🙄. i don't even hide when there are 2 left on the rare occasions when i play survivor (i just do a gen and if i get found first so be it) but that's so ridiculous. survivors hiding with multiple gens left is annoying but it's not that annoying that i'd want anyone banned for it
it's literally holding the game hostage, same case as it was with the old SM.
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@Sarrif said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700101#Comment_3700101
Okay and that's irrelevant, survivors still are put at a disadvantage by doing their objective. So why is it bad for killers to be at a disadvantage for doing their objective but okay for survivors?
disadvantage of the killer's side here is literally them being taken hostage by survivors refusing to do their objective and waiting either for server to crash or for killer to DC (if killer is short on nerves)
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@Sarrif said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700094#Comment_3700094
… No it's literally always how the game works. Three genning is a worst case scenario but even a best case still has significantly limited the area that killers need to patrol. Have… have you played survivor before?
i have played and i still am playing lol.
limited yes, but making right gen decision still leaves huge zone that killer has to patrol.
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@Sarrif said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700083#Comment_3700083
Survivors actively get punished for doing their objective by reducing the area that killers need to patrol.
this stands only if you finish up the wrong gens and eventually lock yourself into a 3-gen, otherwise it's incorrect
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no, i mean soloQ teams where someone will at least read pregame chat where you announce you have it (and i hope we get ability to see perk loadouts in lobby so console players can actually have it easier too)
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@C3Tooth said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3700049#Comment_3700049
Reassurance doesnt work on Solo.
it does when you actually have a team when understands you have it (same as with Deli/Wicked)
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1. Do gens
2. Go for the save when hooked survivor is about to reach the second hook state and trade hooks
OR
use Reassurance on the hooked survivor earlier and give the remaining 2 players who do gens more time for it.
3. Enjoy killer getting 1k at most, with decent chances of making a save for the hooked survivor that traded hooks with the first camped one.
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something should rather be done about the last 2 players not touching gens and wasting your time rather than rewarding them for being bad
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@MaTtRoSiTy said:
I am not sure if it carries killers to higher MMR as such but it is definitely a crutch for bad killers.
it's all about the mindset of players using it.
Bad players use it as a crutch, thinking (omg, this perk means ez 4k in endgame no matter how i play through the match).
Good player use it as a small source of endgame pressure and to secure a kill in endgame (mostly used in tournaments)
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if a perk that is supposed to give you a bit of endgame pressure and is meant to secure 1 kill in endgame actually gives much better results and turns the match into a 3-4k, what can we say about survivors in that match then?