Mr_K
Mr_K
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- Mr_K
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Comments
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Not for me. Information perks are my bread and butter. Distortion wasn't a big deal either. Those token did run out. While auras are nice there are many ways in finding survivors without them too.
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Blindness affects solos more than SWFs.
We take that to mean that blindness affecting solos is bad. Instead, it just show SWFs breaking another game mechanic.
Also, I find it odd people didn't know Empathy was a direct counter to this perk. But I guess I shouldn't be. Lack of empathy is normal in DBD.
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In these cases it's a quick win. All die trying to prevent one hook state.
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The glove toolbox addon will prevent notification. You can get many stealth breaks that way.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3868664#Comment_3868664
Sorry for the double ping; one other thing I forgot to mention is that my suggestion for fixing tunnelling was stated above. Slower gens while all Survivors are alive followed by faster gens when Survivors start to die. Reduce the snowball by allowing the Killer more time to establish a foothold and spread hooks while giving Survivors a comeback mechanic so it's not a virtually guaranteed 4K if a Survivor dies before 3 or 4 gens are done.
I read this after my reply but somehow already answered it.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3868664#Comment_3868664
I'm not suggesting items from outside the thread; I'm suggesting what I've suggested. There's no point in discussing suggestions outside the thread as they're not relevant to my point.
And solos did not at any point in time in the past communicate more effectively than now. What happened is that survivors had more tools to combat tunnelling than they do now. An FPS analogy would be if damage and rate of fire was normally on a scale of 1 to 10. If both sides have guns that rank 10 out of 10 then it's fair. The guns are really strong but it's fair. If one side has their guns nerfed to 5 out of 10 but the other side has guns that do 10 out of 10 then it's unfair. It's not a 'skill issue's for the side with the 5 out of 10 to struggle; it's a game mechanics issue.
That is what happened to Survivor. They're the allegory with the 5 out of 10 gun. Pre 6.1 DH, release CoH were all things that Survivors could use in the past to counter tunnelling. Those things no longer exist. There is nothing now that is really strong on the Survivor side. However, Killers can still tunnel.
But no, Survivors did not magically communicate better in the past. Survivors just had stronger tools to counter the really strong stuff Killer has and the Survivor toolkit has been overall nerfed far more than the Killer toolkit (of which the only really egregarious and overpowered tool left is tunnelling).
The point of bringing up outside suggestions was because I don't know your suggestions and didn't want to attribute what was listed onto you.
Tunneling wasn't the issue before. Camping was. Not many chances to tunnel when they never get off the hook. While bhvr mitigated camping, it is still possible to do so. While you can plea with bhvr to tunneling less enticing it will still occur.
Let's bring up another option. Lets say repair speed increases with each hook state or dead survivor like in 2v8. Well then its detrimental to kill off survivors right? In other words, it's incentivised to keep survivors alive but unable to progress their objective. In other words slugging. Slugging will become the meta and you will be making threads about how slugging is killing the game. (Like others are already doing)
Also survivors in the past were more likely to actually play the game instead of giving up at the first inconvenience as they do today. Most DCs occured on their final hook or to spawn hatch. Even when there wasn't any real penalty in doing so.
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4 gens in 2 minutes? Maybe, depends when you started keeping track. Three survivors on three gens can get three done under 80s with great skillchecks. All three can do a fourth in ~43s. So minus travel time four gens can be repaired in 123s (2m 3s).
Not to say your assumption of them being cheaters is incorrect.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3868389#Comment_3868389
I'm not arguing the Killer has to ignore the target; I'm arguing it's better for BHVR and DbD if tunnelling is removed and BHVR should change it. You're reading too much into my posts if you feel I'm putting the onus on the players. If you're unfamiliar with my arguments I've made (which is of course reasonable as nobody is going to keep up with the nuances of every person's position on a forum) I've stated multiple times (many for years)
(1) DbD should be balanced off of hooks
(2) The best way to achieve that is increased gen defense or slowdown while all survivors are alive and gens speeding up as each survivor dies
(3) Tunnelling is a crutch that lets Killers get to a higher MMR level than they should and that's harmful in the long term to Killers
(4) Tunnelling also increases win rates so much it hurts Killers who don't tunnel as BHVR looks at win rates in the aggregate and Killers may be underperforming when they don't tunnel but tunnelling disguises this. This prevents Killers who may need it from getting buffs.
(5) Tunnelling prevents Survivors from playing the game. It is completely reasonable to want to play the game and both sides need to have fun
(6) Ultimately, BHVR has to make the changes as you cannot rely on an Internet community to self police.
Your statement, though, about how we wouldn't expect that in any other game is flawed. There is a social contract even though it's easier for online players to ignore it. Gankers and twinks in PvP in MMORPGS are looked down upon just as hard tunnellers are in DbD. If DbD were a face to face recreational activity all the people who argue 'why should I care about the other side's fun' would be sitting around alone with nobody to play with. The only reason that doesn't occur online is that the Internet removes the social consequences of such an attitude. However, people who use unfair advantages are looked down upon.
Also, the forums are rife with gaslighting about what Survivors should or shouldn't do. Attempting to say a group of four people who have never met each other, never practiced together, don't know each other's perks and can't communicate can overcome tunnelling is ludicrous. It is not possible for that to consistently occur. That's also an issue as game mechanics never should give such an advantage to one side.
You're arguing from a 'me at this point in time' perspective while I'm arguing from 'better for the game and players overall' perspective. If you want to say it's better for you personally to tunnel of course it is. However, it's not better for the game overall nor for the community and, unfortunately, the social consequences that discourage such behaviour in real life are removed in the game setting. However, you were the one who falsely stated that the arguments against tunnelling were all emotional when there are many logical arguments against tunnelling; they just require being able to look beyond 'me at this moment in time' to acknowledge them.
You are missing one fundamental piece of the game and that's choice of action.
You cannot remove tunneling because tunneling is a choice made by the player. The best bhvr can do is make that decision harder to make. But in doing so you give agency to the survivor to abuse the system. For example using suggestions from outside this thread.
Make the survivor invulnerable for a set time or action taken. We've seen this played out with old DS and release BT. Instead of escaping the survivor chooses to interfere and unhooks were performed unsafe outside of reason.
Make a hook state not count if too soon after being unhooked. Same issue. If there are no consequences there will be abuse.
I'd ask how bhvr can "fix" tunneling where it's fair for both sides. (I'm sure you have somewhere.)
As for four random survivors playing well together. Believe it or not there was a time when survivors could and that was without the perks or UI to help.
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I feel there needs to be some form of skill in chases besides aimlessly moving from loop to loop. Check spots fall into that category for me. It's not impossible to catch them it just takes a bit more than normal.
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People keep calling for reworks to their favorite killers while ignoring past reworks.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3867673#Comment_3867673
Those aren't emotional arguments unless you're incapable of seeing a point of view outside of me at this moment in time. As an example, I said Tunnelling is as much of a crutch as pre 6.1 DH. Pre 6.1 DH gave a statistically significant advantage that no other perk can achieve. Tunnelling gives a statistically significant advantage that no other strategy or perk can achieve. Pre 6.1 DH was used the higher up the MMR curve just as tunnelling is used. Pre 6.1 DH was extraordinarily difficult for a new Killer to overcome. Tunnelling is extraordinarily difficult for new Survivors to overcome. Because of pre 6.1 DH Survivors could hit MMR levels that they couldn't without. Because of tunnelling Killers can hit MMR levels they couldn't without.
Those are facts. If you're saying repeating facts is an "emotional" argument than perhaps the one who is emotionally reacting is you.
Your comment about number two is non-sensical considering what I said. Tunnelling, in the experiment I did with solo queue with 175 games at time intervals that were a year apart, gave less than a 10% win rate (for survivors, over 90% win rate for Killers) when applied against solo queue. The 60% kill rate mention you made makes me doubt you even considered your argument and just went straight to a stock answer. From the data I examined the win rate without tunnelling was actually a bit behind what BHVR wants. The win rate with tunnelling was over 90% and tunnelling made it look like Killers were over performing if amassed together. That wasn't true; tunnelling was making Killers look as if they perform better than they actually do.
The third argument is as non-sensical as your second as you didn't actually address my point but deflected with an irrelevant point (the 60% kill rate). I'm not discussing that; I'm discussing how tunnelling substantially increases the win rate by statistically significant levels.
Your fourth argument is an emotional response to a business fact. If businesses cannot keep their customers happy they will suffer and may cease to function. Your argument is essentially the same as the people who say 'look, it snowed today in this one area and therefore climate change doesn't exist' except applied to business. That DbD has customers now doesn't preclude that customers also left due to being unhappy nor does it preclude that the best move BHVR could make is keeping all of its players happy for as long as possible.
Your fifth argument could have been used to argue against nerfing pre 6.1 DH. There is nothing you stated that wouldn't have supported keeping pre 6.1 DH.
If you wish to say one side is being emotional and the other logical than you probably shouldn't use double standards. As it is, your arguments sound like the Killer equivalent of the 'just bait it out' arguments that were used to argue against nerfing pre 6.1 DH.
As a side note, if you're unfamiliar with the data set I'm referring to here's a link
You are arguing that a killer must ignore an easy target because the survivor may feel bad. It's like me saying survivors must stop repairing gens if they power 3 before the killer gets a hook. Cycling through survivors making sure to evenly hook everyone is asking to play at your own detriment just so no ones feeling are hurt.
Do you expect players to get better being treated with kid gloves?
Here, I'll help you. Killers shouldn't tunnel because it will boost their MMR higher than it should be. At some point they will begin to face survivors who can punish the tactic. They will start to lose and feel the game is unbalanced.
There are many ways to deal with killers that tunnel. Because survivors don't use them doesn't make it the killer's fault. You can't expect for an online PvP for one side to go easy. We wouldn't expect it from any other game.
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@TheSubstitute said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3867449#Comment_3867449
That you're not acknowledging the logical arguments against tunnelling doesn't mean they don't exist. As a quick, non-inclusive summary
- Tunnelling provides as much as a crutch that pre 6.1 DH does. If the win rate by using a tactic that only one side has access to increases win rates by a significant amount (my sample gave close to double the win rate by tunnelling versus not tunnelling) then that constitutes an imbalance in game design.
- If the win rate by one group (solo survivors in the matches I recorded and posted) drops to less than 10% by using a tactic that one side can access and the other cannot that constitutes an unfair advantage.
- DbD is a video game that is played for entertainment. Anyone taking it more seriously than that has issues with perspective (with the caveat that streamers, etc whose income is derived from DbD have a much greater stake). Nobody can reasonably say that expecting one side to have less than a 10% win rate is an enjoyable experience.
- A videogame that does not provide an enjoyable experience will eventually suffer and may cease to function (eg the Teens in VHS killed VHS by blocking any improvements to the miserable Monster experience. I see a lot of parallels to how the Teens in VHS acted to how some of the Killers in DbD are).
- The same criteria should apply to all roles by the developers. If something is nerfed because it gives a statistically significant win rate increase that is unfair to the other side (ie pre 6.1 DH) then the same should apply to both sides (tunnelling in this case).
If you're fine with tunnelling but don't believe it's an essential game mechanic or to you essential implies a greater than 60% kill rate you're acting the same as and just as logical as the people who said 'just bait it out' with pre 6.1 DH.
- Is an emotional argument. You are using shame to stop someone from tunneling.
- It can be argued that many factors lead to that 60% number. One being the high rate in which survivors give up over the smallest inconvenience. Leaving teammates with the aftermath.
- Emotional argument. Sure, games are played for entertainment. But how someone enjoys the game is subjective. A 10% win rate. For every win streak there's a lose streak to balance the numbers. Note every killer wins 60% of their matches. It's an average where the center of the bell curve is 60%.
- Do you know what game you are playing? The very existance of DBD being around this long is the counter to this argument. You think any of this is new? It's the same regurgitated complaints year after year. Even when bhvr tries and does something, it's never enough, doesn't go far enough, and is now worst than it ever has been.
- There's no slider for balance. A 4v1 is inherently nearly impossible to perfectly balance. Tweaks to one killer only affects that killer. Tweaks to survivors affect every killer. What is too strong or weak varies by player region, time of day, and skill level of the players.
If you may, give a logical argument why someone shouldn't tunnel someone out in a match from a killer's point of view. Provide an alternative strategy that provides better results in a match.
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@bjorksnas said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3867487#Comment_3867487
its a feature now, specifically added to the game
I don't agree with it much either
That's.... so bhvr
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Wait, dream pallets stun Freddy now?
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@You_Are_Irrelevant said:
This won't change anything in high MMR or comp settings. Freddy Krueger will continue to struggle.
Comp doesn't matter. If he starts annoying the casual base too much he will be nerfed again.
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If a killer does it, its an exploit.
If a survivor does it, it's a tech. 😉
I don't really see it as an exploit but poor coding on the Devs part. Gameplay issues like these need to be given a higher priority and fixed before they become too ingrained into players playstyle.
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It's the difference between an emotional and logical arguments.
Most that talk against tunneling make emotional arguments. It's not fun to go against.
Most that say tunneling is needed are making logical arguments. A 3v1 is easier than a 4v1.
If you want someone to stop tunneling then make a logical argument against it.
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@DragonMasterDarren said:
Sometimes I ask myself if posts like this are written by ChatGPT just because of how little sense they make
Remember that AI is trained by actual user input.
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It's only hopeless because you made it hopeless. In my 5k hours in this game I've seen comebacks where the killer (me or against) was actively trying to kill.
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If you didn't realize it until a content creator told you, then maybe it wasn't really an issue.
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If you want slugging gone then remove the requirement to pickup and hook. You are asking the killer to risk flashlights, pallet stuns, or anything else that bhvr thinks of. Plus dragging your wiggling butt to a nearby hook that can be blocked or sabo.
It's a big time sink and sometimes leaving you on the floor is the best option.
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You are encourge to play how you want to play. The play loop is simple to allow different play styles. Even so, players will always gravitate towards a meta. It's just nature.
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It's been a year since the last Pjg nerf? No that can't be. We've had to had updates since then.
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If you're an old player returning, you can set that in game now. An engine update a while ago changed which ini file you need to change. Just use the ingame setting.
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@Sngfun said:
Probably an Anti-tunnel measure since the bar lowers independently of the normal one...
Wait, wasn't this legions original deep wound? Where if you didn't mend before the timer you died?
I'll laugh so hard if that's the case.
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Sounds like the killer is having fun and chillin. It's the survivor sweating and losing hope.
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Well thoughtout and leaves no room for abuse. 🤣
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I don't think the engine is to blame.
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@tjt85 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3864449#Comment_3864449
Of course it's still trying to find a good match, but past a certain point it "turns off" in the sense that it stops trying to find a suitable match for you once a certain amount of time has elapsed and can match you with anyone. That's my understanding anyway.
Please send some of those low hour noobs my way for when I play the Killers that I hardly ever touch, because the ones I get aren't so much different than the ones I get for my main. Not that I trust playtime these days, what with cross progression being a thing now.
Stop killing and eventually you will get them.
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@tjt85 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3863845#Comment_3863845
They don't, but when the queues are long for one side (and likewise instant for the other), it doesn't just "feel" like SBMM is turned off, it really is turned off.
I've had some of the most miserable DBD games of my life playing the event mode today. Just nothing but the strongest builds and Killers back to back. I do not escape often enough to justify facing Killers like this. I somehow even went up against a 12,000 hour Deathslinger in Japan that probably had more hours in the game than my entire lobby (I'm on the UK servers). I've also had Survivors in my Killer games that were either way above my skill level or way below. So yeah, SBMMR is not working today.
It is not turned off. I have killers that I purposely keep low MMR that get low hour noobs and my main killers get high hour swfs.
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@BorisDDAA said:
It could be a setting in the ini like when people used to change vsync and fps cap manually.
The ini file only affects the engine settings exposed by the Devs. It does not affect the game in this way.
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Salt kills slugs faster
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You are talking about two different things. Seeing the killer tip would imply direct manipulation of the game files.
Just report them an let bhvr sort them out.
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Events don't increase/decrease your MMR score but it is still used for match making. When queues are long you will see a broader range in skill level. So it can feel like SBMM is turned off.
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Those are just people who only play during events and they typically play with friends.
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People sign up for a PvP not a PvE. The bot being there is to lessen the bs you just dumped on your teammates.
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@biggybiggybiggens said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3863597#Comment_3863597
Was waiting for a childish response. The FNAF community thanks you as this type of response makes them look like the adults….
No you
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The answer is clear everytime its disabled.
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@Prometheus1092 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3861629#Comment_3861629
They work when close enough and if there any to hand but the point to Myers is stalk from a distance. Impossible to throw snowskulls at a snowman that far away lol when stalking from distance lots just hop in a snowman. Just adds an extra something for Myers to overcome I suppose. Shame Myers can't stalk when hiding in a snowman.
It's a solution to
can't Mori and have to hit the snowman
You can work out the stalking issue
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Snowskulls
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If the survivor picking themselves up is the same as a hook state then you will find killers that will choose to only slug. One of the drawbacks of killer is having to pickup and hook a survivor. You run the risk of saves, stuns, and sabo plus it takes time to do.
Getting multiple slugs will pressure survivors into taking that hook state. A hook state the killer doesn't need to risk to spend time doing. In the end it will only encourge slugging outside downing near a hook.
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@Mooks said:
if they use slurs or anything they can still be reported though so it’s not like they are actually protected from punishment..
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3860629#Comment_3860629
I want my team members to be able to judge whether I fit their skill level based on my steam profile
Do people actually do this? Based on what??
All the +reps of course. 😆
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Must be that time of year again.
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Maybe due to the 20 minute wait times.
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Coup de Grace really? You know it's token based perk where you have to lose a gen to gain tokens? You also lose the token if you miss or could of gotten the hit with a normal lunge.
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If the current NOED isn't good enough then the prior reworks were failures. Just revert the changes and make it permanent, unremovable, and with the old speed boost.
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@Chilli_man2400 said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3851994#Comment_3851994
I’ve been here since 2019
That's 5 years buddy. Face it , you're an old timer.
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You've been around long enough to have seen this suggested 20 or so times.
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@AetherBytes said:
https://forums.bhvr.com/dead-by-daylight/discussion/comment/3851371#Comment_3851371
I didn't actually ask for a nerf, in fact I think this is the most well rounded "powerful" build I've ever seen or used on her.
The title includes "how broken" implying it needs to be fixed.