MrPenguin
MrPenguin
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3081626#Comment_3081626
The burger was an analogy to escaping.
The burger/escape being 5 dollars, while swf has 10 dollars, and solo q has 5 dollars.
If you remove 3 dollars from both groups, solo doesn't have enough to buy a burger, while swf does just cant afford to have fries with it anymore.
If your argument its impossible to escape solo now I have to disagree. There's still people escaping solo just fine myself included.
That's an exaggeration and also doesn't address the main point.
It doesn't mean they got nerfed harder, they just had a weaker starting point.
if we buff survivor does solo get a larger benefit because they started weaker? Of course not. Perks, for example, aren't stronger on solos just because they are weaker at base.
Being weaker at base doesn't necessarily make the changes affect them more unless they are specific to a reason why they are weaker. For example nerfing Kindred would be a big blow to solo specifically.
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@CluelessWanderer said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3081547#Comment_3081547
It's already been explained to you quite thoroughly that Solo Q was always at a disadvantage and borderline miserable. It was ALWAYS a lot more difficult, with a lot more caveats. I'm not going to explain again why that is, as numerous people have already done so painstakingly.
Any survivor nerf, or Killer buff will impact Solo Q far more significantly than a 4 man SWF which has always had a ton of extra perks even if only by virtue of communication, coordination, ability to pick team mates, learn how to play efficiently with said team mates, strategize etc. This is a no-brainer. Numerous threads on the forums have illustrated that people who play in SWF's feel their gameplay hasn't changed much. The vast majority of Solo Q players have seen a huge drop in their already abysmal escape rates, many claiming that in most their matches, they don't even see the Exit gates powered.
So I'm not really sure what you're arguing in this thread. Perhaps you just don't feel as impacted if you're a Solo Q player, idk. But your OP has been answered fully and completely.
Reiterating something doesn't make it true. There's also multiple people saying that they got nerfed the same amount and its just a general nerf.
Numerous people have also said that their solo que games are about the same as well around the forums and everyone complaining are just a bunch of babies, does that make that true because a lot of people said it? No of course not.
Just because solo que is weaker doesn't mean they got nerfed by a larger amount just because. The end result is they're just even weaker by the same margin. If we buff survivor in general, solo doesn't get buffed by a lot more than swf just because they're weaker. The counterpoint from a few just say "oh well solo was already worse and they got hit with general nerfs", which doesn't prove anything relevant.
My question has been answered in technicality, but that doesn't mean I agree nor that I have to stop discussing it. If I ask someone to explain why a triangle is the most stable shape and they tell me "because its a triangle", technically my question was answered but that doesn't really help. If I ask why DS got its stun reduced and get back "because it was too long" I don't have to just agree.
Asking why this hit solos harder and just getting back "because solo" isn't really an answer. So far only 1 person actually gave something that actually affected solos more, and some people are missing the point entirely.
Just saying they were weaker to start with doesn't prove anything.
People get told this and then continue to just describe solo que and why it was always bad. That is not the question nor the point.
10 secs per gen is not more than 10 secs just because of solo que. Killers didn't get 50% attack CD reduction if you're playing solo que. DS stun didn't get reduced to 3 seconds only if you're in solo que.
What in this patch is affecting them by a larger margin and why. No ones asking how solo is weaker than SWF in general, we already know that and that doesn't mean they got hit harder. They might be weaker, than before, but that can easily be because they started weaker, not because they got hit significantly harder.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3081552#Comment_3081552
Thanks for understanding what I mean.
They didn't say what you can't "buy" either nor what the burger is.
At least answer the question if you're going to post something.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3081303#Comment_3081303
No, that is important to the question too. You need to discuss how much that loss impacts each individual and why. In the hamburger example, both have lost the same amount but one can still buy the hamburger and eat while the other might starve to death due to that loss of money.
Anyway I'm not one of those who is all doom and gloom about the update so I'll leave it at that.
I can't really comment on that because when I asked the person who posted it to clarify what exactly they mean by "buy a burger" and what solos lost the ability to "buy" that SWF didn't they dodged the question and left.
Presumably because they didn't have an answer. So that points dead unless they decide to answer.
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@CluelessWanderer said:
Is it me or is this entire thread just someone splitting hairs and focusing on semantics to be ornery?
People don't literally mean the Devs specifically set out to nerf Solo queue as their entire objective. They're angry that the Devs gave absolutely no thought to how their changes would significantly impact the already disadvantaged (and large population) of players that cannot SWF. This thread is just about nitpicking how people express their incredulity that developers ignore the poor state of an entire group of players due to the strength of a minority of players ( 4-man SWF).
I don't think anyone is saying the devs specifically wanted to nerf solo que.
But I have seen a number of people saying "solo got nerfed by a significantly larger amount than SWF did", which is the contentious part because as far as has been discussed, that's not what's happening.
The most we got was 2 perks currently viewed as subpar hit solos a bit harder.
Yes solo que should be improved, I also don't think anyone is arguing that point.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3081437#Comment_3081437
I’m sorry but at this point the only reason you don’t understand why this update made solo q worse is because you don’t want to and I’m tired of repeating the obvious.
" I don't have an answer so I'm not going to say anything."
Solo did get worse... because survivor as a whole did.
You brought up losing the ability to "buy" something, then when asked to clarify because you never said what you were buying you dodged the question. That's a pretty important part of your argument to leave out.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3081303#Comment_3081303
Solo q lost the opportunity to buy food SWF didn’t
What did solo lose that SWF also didn't lose exactly? What is the "food"?
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@bigbeefynacho said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3081307#Comment_3081307
That was my point: even before the update, survivors don't use their heads, even in a swf. It won't change unfortunately. I just don't understand some of the complaints based on how poorly some of these survivor play.
I thought your point was "I can attest that this update does affect me more than a swf".
If it's actually not understanding the complaints because of the survs own gameplay then yeah I can 100% relate to that.
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@bigbeefynacho said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/336268/a-question-about-the-solo-que-nerf
While as a solo survivor, I can attest that this update does affect me more than a sef (I do play with my son as welland communicatiin is key to doing well), but I don't think the update was meant to nerf US particularly.
What I find problematic with other survivors is that they refuse to work on gens, even when one is 75 to 80 percent complete. Or if I a gen to go save, they jump off as well and follow me instead of sitting tight and completing the main objective.
The other issue, which has plagued this game for years is swarming hooks to farm someone, who immediately goes down.
I get that some survivors think it's "unfun" to do gens. I get it. I find it can be boring too. But sometimes you just have to suck it up and use your head.
All that was true before and nothing in the patch is making survivors not do gens or swarm, that's their own choice.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3081275#Comment_3081275
You need to buy a burger that is 5 dollars.
Someone has 10 dollars another one only has 5 dollars. You remove 3 dollars from each.
Who is gonna suffer with the less 3 dollars?
Solo Q here is 5 dollars and SWF is 10.
Sure but they both lost 3 dollars. The question is not what they can buy its how much did they lose.
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@tester said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3081267#Comment_3081267
No. Both Eruption and Overcharge just got buffed.
Eruption works the same way the numbers just got bigger. But SWF stayed at 0 while solo takes a bigger hit.
Overcharge does work differently so that ones also fair.
On further thought, I can see how those 2 perks are worse for solos specifically. At least those perks don't appear to be shaping up to be the meta, but time will tell on that front.
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@thrawn3054 said:
It is true that the nerfs don't specifically hit solo queue. The problem is the nerfs hit solo queue harder by virtue of it already being weaker. The extended gen times won't really effect swf, but those extra seconds will be very hard on solos.
No both sides got the same time increase, why would it not effect SWF?
Solo was already weak and got weaker sure. But it didn't get nerfed by a larger margin as far as anyone has shown.
Taking away 2 dollars from someone with 5 and someone with 10 doesn't mean the person with 5 loss more than the person with 10, they both lost 2 dollars. Could they afford it is a different discussion, but they both lost 2.
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@tester said:
How about this simple example: Eruption
SWF: "Going down!" Everyone stops doing gens for a moment. Eruption doesn't give 25 second incapacitated. And killer doesn't know that anyone is on gen.
Solo: People stand around and do nothing for 25 seconds.
Want another one? Call of Brine and Overcharge
SWF: "Killer is chasing me and my gen is regressing. It's at blabla". Another survivor comes and stops regression.
Solo: Gen is regressing...
Both those situations would have happened before.
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@Gary_Coleman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3081242#Comment_3081242
I've always done gens. That's how you open the gate to escaoe.
Let me be more specific.
Random teammates you get in solo que pretty much didn't do gens before.
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@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3081205#Comment_3081205
Nothing as direct as a ping. Just some way to let others know what someone is doing.
Like "I'm being chased" "I'm doing a generator" "I'm coming to save" "dont save me!"
Stuff that can be easily verbally communicated, and is, through some kind of chat wheel. Maybe a small bit of survivor auras in certain situations.
Something to help solos coordinate like the team they're expected to be.
I can get behind that. Although it'd leave out a very big advantage SWF has witch is knowing where the killer is exactly. Just knowing my teammate is being chased isn't the same as knowing where and if they're heading my way, nor will it help set up a flashlight save because I don't know where to go.
But it's better than what we have now.
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@Gary_Coleman said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3080912#Comment_3080912
Nobody is doing gens in the soloQ games I've played today. They're all too busy trying to find that new chase meta, I guess? I feel like the responsible dad who does gens so that the other 3 running monkeys can escape safely. The problem is that everyone wants to be the superstar champion hero, while the actual goal of survivors is to do gens and escape. Everyone had their egos nerfed and theyre upset about it. Thats the soloQ nerf.
No one did gens before, that's not new to this patch.
That's also the survivors fault not the games.
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@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3081147#Comment_3081147
Something that helps solos distribute information that the SWF already has access to would be nice.
I agree, but that would also makes SWF distribute information more effectively. Imagine instead if "hey guys the killer is by the 3rd tractor on the left side of the main building behind the hay bale" they could just go "killers here -ping-". Especially in those SWFs that aren't that great at communicating/understanding directions.
Now it would buff SWF less than solo, but it still would. I think solos do need it though.
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@Grandpa_Crack_Pipe said:
The idea is that a SWF.. or a good enough SWF, at least, can handle the nerf.
Meanwhile, Solo just had its other leg broken.
That's understandable. I just don't get the people saying thigs like "solo got nuked while SWF got a scratch". They both got hit by a bus this patch because general survivor did.
@Tsulan said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3081067#Comment_3081067
Well its hard to balance around solo and SWF. Since every buff to solo also benefits SWF.
And any buff to solos also benefits SWF unless they start doing que specific buffs/nerfs, which most people are against from my understanding.
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@Bwsted said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3080808#Comment_3080808
I'm honestly not sure you're serious or even baiting. Especially, in your last sentence.
This patch has literally buffed the killer chase across the board, from base interactions up to bloodlust. What base incentive do you want more to help a down, that you sneeze and the survivors fall to the floor?
You can implement how many incentives you want. The illusion that players will self-police themselves because 'incentives' is just that, i.e. an illusion.
The viable alternative to camping has been implemented. If players don't take it, then the task is not to overload that alternative, but to make camping not as viable.
Sure nerf camping if you can find a way to do that they doesn't have consequences elsewhere in the game, like giving survivors a bunch of free extra time or free unhooks and punishing the killer for defending from the save.
As far as I have seen no one has done that.
The chase buffs have nothing to do with camping directly. Just because killers are better in chase doesn't give them a reason to not camp. It just means they can down and then camp faster. If someone personally doesn't want to camp, like me, then yeah those buffs made their life a little easier.
What reason do they have not to camp? More specifically, what competitive reason do they have to leave the hook and go do something else? Because going for the 12 hook game and/or giving free unhooks is not it. Finding a gen to kick with the still small regression and subpar kick perks is also not it.
Before we at least had BBQ, Pop, ect. now what reason do they have to leave a hook for?
Also just to be clear I'm not in favor of camping, I would love for it to be reduced or outright gone. But there isn't really a solution available. Incentives are better than nothing, which is what we have now as far as I can tell.
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@Ink_Eyes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3080976#Comment_3080976
Its not like solos didn't hide and were super coordinated before. So that's not valid.
it is because it is something that didnt affect SFW squads because their coordination makes those 50 seconds safe and solos are exposed for additional 50+ seconds.
And solos weren't exposed on gens before?
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@Ink_Eyes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3080945#Comment_3080945
Yes but it is worse now becasue not only solo survivors are wasting time hiding, 90 + 20 + additional time added on the generator, something that again doesnt affect SWF because they know when the killer is coming so those 90 seconds affect more solo than SWF.
Thats because the example was for you to understand that ''giving the same weight'' to different people is not the same, solo queue and SWF are extremely different, giving ''the same nerfs/buffs'' to both can have different reactions because they are different. it was never about M1, we can all hold m1. Also is not 10 seconds is 50 seconds, 10 seconds per gen, so solos are gonna struggle more with more time added to the timer.
It's always team work, if I tell you to hold a 200 pound bag by yourself for 3 hours how would your arms feel? what if I put 5 guys to hold that bag for those 3 hours? not as bad as the guy doing it solo. it's not rocket since it's just logicall that a team with more advatajes than the other one will be less affected by a nerf than a one that's obviously weaker.
Yes solo is worse than before because survivor in general got weaker. Yes solo is worse than SWF, this was never in question.
But what about this patch is specifically worse for solo and not all survivors? What is true now, that was not true before for solo being a worse role?
Its not like solos didn't hide and were super coordinated before. So that's not valid.
SWF doesn't take away a gen, they both have 50 total seconds added on.
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@Ink_Eyes said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3080912#Comment_3080912
But solo was already weaker. yes so you can tell that putting the same ''weight'' on your weaker son is even gonna make it harder for him.
''I don't see how adding 10 seconds to holding M1 changes between solo and SWF. Both have to hold M1 for 10 more seconds''
Communication and coordination, communication makes it so that a survivor (playing with friends) doing a gen knows exactly where the killer is at all times, a SWF squad can have 3 guys doing gens and be perfectly safe because they know where the killer is always, a solo team who is not communicating will be more exposed to the killer suddenly comming in and downing a survivor that's on a gen, solo survivors who don't know where the killer is tend to hide and waste time, someting that SWF squads can completely ignore since they know where the killer is at all times, another example is that SWF can coordinate better to manipulate gen speeds, gen spread and unhooking, solo survivors don't have that advantaje either.
Information is everything not just in this game but all games, why do you think there's cheats that allow you to see where other players are on PUBG that are banned? knowing where a player is at all times provides you a massive advantaje on PUBG or here in dead by daylight or in any other game.
Ok but you're just describing solo que. This was true before.
In you're "son" example, he was already younger. When he was 9, the other was 29. Now they're a year older and got 200 to lift. Its not the 10 yr old got 400 pounds while the 30 got 200. This example also doesn't translate well because the 10 yr old physically cant lift it, while both Solo and SWF can hold M1.
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@Ink_Eyes said:
Because SWF squads strength lies in the fact that they are communicated and coordinated, and solos are not, increasing gen speed is way more detrimental for a team that is not coordinated over one that is.
Giving everyone the same ''weight'' hits different, tell your 2 sons to carry a 200 pund bag, ITS THE SAME WEIGHT FOR BOTH! but now take into concideration that one of your sons is 30 and the other one 10 and you will see that the ''same weight'' argument is not valid on people who are obviously different, Solo queue is the little brother here and gets hit harder with nerfs due to it's nature of having uncoordinated survivors, SWF squads could be nerfed even more and they can take it, solo queue can't.
But solo was already weaker.
I don't see how adding 10 seconds to holding M1 changes between solo and SWF. Both have to hold M1 for 10 more seconds. Being uncoordinated doesn't change anything in that regard as far as I see. If they spent 30 seconds running around before, they'll do it now.
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@Gorgonia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3080882#Comment_3080882
Did you read my post or not?
I didn't say not having comms was a nerf...
Well then I don't see the point of what you posted.
I thought you were responding to the question I asked since otherwise it added nothing and has nothing to do with what you quoted either.
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@Gorgonia said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3080869#Comment_3080869
Survivors were nerfed slightly but SWF compensates with information and comms. Solo Q don't have that.
solo didn't have that before, that's not a nerf.
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@EntityNea said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/336268/a-question-about-the-solo-que-nerf
A quick explanation to this phenomenon is that a lot of people can only see things from their own perspective.
So some solo queue players will exclaim that "solo queue needs to be buffed! why did they nerf solo queue so hard??"
While, the game has gotten boring and miserable for most people playing survivor now.
(by the way, im not saying only "solo queue players" are like this. a lot of people in general are fairly bad at looking at things objectively without putting themselves at the center of it)
So essentially there was no solo que nerf, the general survivor role got nerfed and they're just personalizing it. Alright then.
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I mean, that's one approach but we could also give survivors a ping system and potentially VC like VHS does.
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we just need a ping system.
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How is this different from before? Killers always camped. The killers who camped before will camp now.
Until we reward killers for not camping/tunneling in a way that makes it stronger than camping/tunneling, this will continue to happen.
Survivors also play into camping a lot, so that needs to change too.
Instead they took away BBQ bonus and nerfed the gen kick perks, so there's even less of a reason to leave the hook than before.
Killers need a base incentive to leave that helps them down/find other survivors.
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Very strong in SWF, good insurance solo, overall strong perk.
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They only have so much manpower. Maybe next year we'll get the others
At least they're letting the community choose rather than just picking 1 themselves.
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my killer ques are still instant
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@Moxie said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3075991#Comment_3075991
He is specifically mentioned to be gay after the fact, not bisexual.
Bi and gay are not the same thing.
Obviously. Just a potential explanation they can have in addition to the other ones, even after the fact of what they said. Just like him going from having a girlfriend to gay, they can tie them together with the "oh he's Bi" excuse to try and cover their tracks.
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@Friendly_Blendette said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3075991#Comment_3075991
Was it not announced that he was gay. Mybe Im misremembering but I thought it was like directly stated.
No that was their words but they also said he had a girlfriend. Just stating a possible explanation in addition to the other ones.
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@Moxie said:
No. It stated he had a girlfriend in the original lore.
Unless the GF was just his big, gay beard, he has been ret conned.
or you know Bi people exist.
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We have too many survivors anyway, some of them need to leave lol.
@CyberRoninX said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3075554#Comment_3075554
New survivors will lose their games to new killers every time because killer is so easy. So they wont stay for long.
That was true before and killer wasn't easy and players still stayed. New survivors always lose to killers until they learn a bit.
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@Alcuin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3074340#Comment_3074340
This is a multiplayer that is survivor-sided in spite of the killers approaching 300 wins in a row. Pro Vengeance won 1096 out 1103 matches. No other multiplayer game is so imbalanced. The killer complaints are unserious.
Again, its not "the killers" its Nurse.
If a Nurse is complaining sure thats unserious. However its not the same for say Sadako.
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Its 10 seconds longer, pretty much the same.
The real difference is survivors who crutched on DH going down faster.
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@Alcuin said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3073654#Comment_3073654
SupaAlf is approaching 300 consecutive wins as Nurse. Any sort of survivor streak that approached triple digits, it included keys and SWF that went out of their way to take hits. The idea that killers have to play this game religiously to consistently 4k is untrue. It's an easy game for both SWF and Killer. Solo is the only hard mode in this game. I'm a PS4 Deathslinger main, by the way.
"Nurse" and "Killer" are not the same thing. You can do a 300 streak with Nurse, you can't do that with any killer.
Similar to how "SWF" and "Survivor" are not the same thing.
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sounds like good changes, before you could predrop every pallet and still probably 4E. Hopefully this helps with the metric ton of pallets on a lot of maps.
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its only 10 seconds, it wont change much of anything. The big difference this patch is more so the perk changes.
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No, 10 seconds did not make gens go from flying to snails.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3074138#Comment_3074138
I disagree.
My survivor queues before were always instant and killer took 3-5 minutes.
Queue times has nothing to do with fun. It has to do with servers and timezones.
well thats great for you but for the vast majority that wasnt/is not the case.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3074133#Comment_3074133
Just because people are starving for bloodpoints doesnt mean survivor is ok.
Killer made more BP before and that didn't make the ques minuets long. People wont play the unfun role for BP.
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@Marigoria said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3074011#Comment_3074011
See that is my problem with this mentality is the "i agree this is bad but bhvr".
Killers complained everyday about things and got them changed, so why is it not ok for solo q survivors to also complain about things that aren't ok? Instead, we get other people just telling us to "get good".
Killers also got told to "git gud" a lot.
Things didn't change because killers complained, things changed because killers weren't playing the game anymore. It took months of the game bleeding players for BHVR to actually take their earplugs out. But I'm sure that's the narrative those type of survivor mains will push.
Considering the survivor ques were minuets long while killer ques were instant yesterday for the majority of players, it doesn't seem like survivor is hurting that much at all. But its still too early to say, survs need to adapt to both the new survivor meta, which appears to be endurance at this time, as well as the new killer changes.
Solo que needs pings at least tho.
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10 seconds did not make the gens go from flying to snails, my gens are pretty much the same.
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Overall positive. Not perfect but definitely better than before the patch.
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he can't compete with competent survivors, so that might be why you don't see him much.
I still play him, but I just like teleporting around and cutting the boring walk time out.
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Sadako and Pinhead aren't that strong so people just use stronger killers. Same with Dredge, hence why he died off so quickly.
Idk about artist, people say she's strong, but I haven't went up against any good ones nor have I gone against her enough to tell.
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@Biscuits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/3067051#Comment_3067051
What you are doing right now is still gaslighting. xD
No gaslighting is trying to make you believe something by making you question your sanity/memory.
I'm saying I don't understand how you went from someone telling you people will DC for a game not going their way to somehow DC's against Nurse aren't a real thing.
You're not explaining yourself, that's not gaslighting.