Monlyth
Monlyth
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@DelsKibara said:
SWF are never going to be nerfed because people don't want to be punished for playing with friends.
Can we please stop asking for SWF nerfs? What we need is to balance killers to be able to go up against survivors with comms, not balance SWF to be weaker just because they are playing with friends.
You know, according to BHVR's stats (Specifically, a post made by @Almo), SWF doesn't really affect escape rates most of the time, because they tend to get super-altruistic and refuse to leave unless they can get everyone out.
It only has a significant impact on escape rates with high-ranking groups that have been playing together for a long time.
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@DepressedClownMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/883401#Comment_883401
The perk is supposed to have an use, not give the killer a down after 14 seconds
The perk gives you 14 seconds to get away from the Killer and mend, or it forces the killer to waste an additional 14 seconds chasing you. Both are considerably better than the alternative: Getting downed again immediately after getting unhooked.
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I think Borrowed Time should activate no matter what, but the Deep Wounds timer should tick down even if you're in the Killer's terror radius. That way, it actually fits the perk's supposed theme of "living on borrowed time" instead of just letting the survivor take an extra hit for free.
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@DaGreenBolt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/878944#Comment_878944
Yet these stats the Devs released don't show the whole picture, for all we know, some of the kills may have been because of 3vs1 or 2vs1 games, where the survivor DCed. Since the stats don't show the whole story, they are unreliable. Also the devs stated to not take the stats literally. But if we go by stats, I guess the 80% escape rate at rank 1 really shows that survivors are the power role. Also survivors control how the match will end as shown with gen speeds and how they can give a killer little time to put enough pressure.
Currently only one killer can deal with a optimal and strong 4-man SWF, and that's spirit, which says a lot about the balance of killer.
No I don't have proof, but currently if we compared the numbers from May 2019, it has a 75,000 peak, with only 20,600 staying. Now most likely at least half are not new players, meaning that about 10,300 are new players. If we were the divide that number by its peak ( I will remove the current existing players (10,300) from the peak to make more crediable. Current the peak of that month was 75,000, if we remove 10,300, we get 64,700)
10,300/64,700 = 15.9% New player retention
20,600/75,000 = 27.4% Player retention
That's not a high number, but let's also compare another month to make this more reasonable stats. I'll do November 2019.
Current players are around 23,500, and peak is around 52,800. Assuming half are not new players.
New players are 11,750 and peak is around 41,050
11,750/41,050 = 28.6% New player retention
23,500/52,800 = 44.5% Player retention
Those New player retention numbers aren't exactly high, and if we compare it to games like fortnite, League of Legends, etc. they still get about a decent number of new players staying in game.
But you are right about that DBD that we do have a good amount of player retention, but we don't really have a good new player retention.
The escape rate at Rank 1 is 80% because if you get sacrificed, you almost always derank. It's why the devs used red ranks and not just Rank 1. A single depip brings you out of rank 1, and if you derank, your game doesn't count towards the overall escape rate in Rank 1. This skews the stats heavily.
Your math has several glaring issues. First, it's based on numbers that fluctuate heavily based on time of day. At 11 AM today, there were 35,872 players online. At midnight, there were only 21,757. So the difference between the player count in November and the current playercount is not as significant as it appears.
Second, you're making baseless assumptions on how many players are new players. That 50% proportion is a number pulled out of nowhere. I could come up with a different proportion and get a different answer.
I think it's a safer assumption that the high playercount in November was most likely caused by the Hallowed Blight event and the release of the archives, which would lead to a large number of veteran players all playing at once, not a large influx of new players. New players, after all, don't care much about in-game holiday events, because they're not invested in the game's progression system yet.
Also, the reason the game's population peaked in late April/early May was because that date coincides with Legion's rework, the addition of the Endgame Collapse, and the Blood Hunt in early May. Which would lead to a lot of veterans all logging in at once to see how it plays with the new changes and to farm lots of bloodpoints, not an influx of new players who know nothing about the game and aren't invested in its progression system.
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@DaGreenBolt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/877682#Comment_877682
Sure it also true the gameplay draws people in as well, but mainly its movie killers and movie survivors that draw people in. For me, both the gameplay, and movie killers and survivors are what drew me to the game.
Also yes a completely balanced game is boring, except the unbalance in DBD is that the survivors are the power role, and as a killer you are very stressed. As well as solo survivor is sometimes hard to play as due to a multitude of factors.
Also yk what DBD lacks than every other game you metioned, is if the best of the best played together, each gets a 50/50 chance to win with the best stuff, while in DBD if the best of the best played, mostly the survivors will win about 60 to 70% of the time against high tier killers. Against mid tier and low tier killers, they would get absolutely demolished.
The only reason DBD has a "high player retention" is because the people who quit are replaced by new players who want to try out the game. Not many stay playing the game after like a month of playing the game.
Based on empirical evidence, survivors are not, in fact, the power role. Every killer except the nurse has a kill rate of more than 50%, and at the highest ranks, all killers become more dominant, not less. Killers can't win every time, but saying they're not the power role is debatable at best.
Where is your proof that people aren't staying with this game for the long haul, and they're just being replaced by new players? Because it's very rare for a 3-year-old game to have a high enough influx of new players to replace all the veterans who quit, if the veterans truly are quitting en masse. Especially since quitting veterans will usually badmouth the game and give it bad reviews. Remember, I picked up this game because I heard lots of good things about it online.
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@YoosungKim said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/877669#Comment_877669
Didn't say price is a major factor
Just that the game is always discounted and it actually plays somehow its role into the bigger scheme :)
Don't be so salty only to defend a game that can't be defended.
At all.
Also I talked about general performance in f2p games
And many of them even if they have a small community, still do better than DBD.
Don't come for me.
Because you don't even have a point.
Sounds like a pretty flimsy line of logic to me. Discounts will only get people to buy the game if they're already interested enough to spend money on it.
Netcode and lag compensation are extremely complex for any game with first-person shooter mechanics; even AAA developers have the same issues as DBD when it comes to netcode. Peeker's advantage, rubber-banding, and more. What's happening on your screen often ends up being quite different from what's happening on your opponent's screen, and there's only so much you can do to address that when limitations like ping exist.
Many free-to-play games, even if they have a small community, still do better than DBD? Name some for me? Because most free-to-play games with a small community just don't work on new content anymore.
Giving feedback is all well and good, but if you overlook everything the developers have accomplished, and all of the effort they've put into improving the game, then your feedback comes off as irrational whining over something that the developers have no control over. You're asking the developers to give you something that they do not have.
No developer can meet all of their audience's expectations, all the time, because the audience always wants more, and the audience as a whole can rarely agree on anything. Saying that they're a bad developer because they don't act upon every bit of feedback is patently false. If you act upon literally every bit of feedback, you're not going to please anyone.
When one person says "Nerf killers", and the other says "Buff killers", there's nothing you can do that will make everyone happy. And if you focus all of your efforts on fixing the game's bugs, then people will start complaining that new content and balance changes aren't coming out quickly enough.
Nobody's perfect, and if anything, there seems to be an issue with BHVR's leadership not setting realistic deadlines for things to get done. But my point is, if you're going to give feedback, be constructive and be realistic with your expectations. I guarantee that the developers will be more willing to listen to you that way.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/877787#Comment_877787
Sure, Im not saying bugs dont run rampant on many successful games. Using Bethesda as an example though is a joke since that company is KNOWN to release back to back buggy messes. If you said "Even Blizzard has many long lasting bugs in their games" would be abit different, but mentioning Bethesda... lol.
Well, I'm not the one who originally mentioned Bethesda. The other person was comparing DBD's glitches to F76. Fallout 76 wasn't even functional upon release, to the point where people tried to file a class action suit against Bethesda, on the grounds of false advertising. Bethesda had advertised and promised a functional game in their marketing, and they broke that promise quite spectacularly.
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@LordGlint said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/877748#Comment_877748
Playing devils advocate here... Doing better than Bethesda on bugfixes isnt exactly setting the bar too high, lol. Bethesda's headline might as well be "Having bugs makes the game quirky, right?".
Sure, but even games created by developers that are famous for having a high level of polish and few bugs will still run into game-breaking issues fairly often, especially with older titles that have had many patches.
For example, even after 15 years of tireless bugfixing, you can still run into issues like graphical errors, UI glitches, game crashes, map collision errors and much more while playing World of Warcraft. Some of the bugs have been around for a decade or more.
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@BunnyTheHutt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/877710#Comment_877710
I know when a company isn't trying, it's happening in dbd. DBD has had bugs since launch that still haven't been fixed, there hasn't been a single update where the game didn't get filled with 800 bugs. They rarely ever listen too the community on anything balance wise (looking at you, rework Nurse.), and they even stopped the weekly dev streams where they actually communicated with the community. They are doing the bare minimum IMO.
And for another company, look at Bethesda's Fallout 76. It's pretty much Fallout 4 with 800 more bugs, micro transactions, looboxes, and a dumb yearly membership for content that should be base.
Do you have any idea how difficult it is to fix bugs, especially in a 3-year-old game that's had dozens of patches, big and small? A single typo in a single line of code, buried under years of band-aid fixes and patches designed to fix other unrelated issues, can cause a game to instantly crash, or completely break a core system of the game. Even the most polished modern videogames are not devoid of bugs.
Fallout 76 is not even functional half the time. It freezes and crashes constantly. Core systems of the game, like enemy AI, character animations or physics often stop working entirely. Not to mention that Fallout 76 is a full-price game that has its own pay-to-win cash shop. Also, Fallout 76 is a crappy game with terrible design and tedious, mediocre, cynically copy-pasted gameplay.
They may have stopped doing dev streams every week (Probably because it took a lot of time away from actually doing their job and working on the game), but they post regularly on their forums and reply to threads on a regular basis, which is more than most developers can say. Just look on the Overwatch forums, for example; the developers haven't replied to any of the popular balance-related topics on their forums in almost three months.
Not to mention that you're overlooking the countless instances where they actually listened to the community and acted upon their feedback: The community wanted Nurse changed, so they reworked the Nurse, twice. The community wanted Spirit changed, so they reworked Spirit, twice. The community wanted Legion changed, so they changed the Legion. I could go on and on; compared to its original launch, Dead By Daylight's gameplay is almost unrecognizable, as virtually every element of the game has been tweaked heavily since then, and nearly all of those changes were made based on community feedback.
And, in fact, just a couple of days ago, the developers made an announcement that they would be changing the level 3 tome challenges, in response to the community's feedback that the challenges were too difficult. During Thanksgiving week, no less.
Do you wanna know what the actual bare minimum is? Just maintaining the game's servers and never actually releasing any new content. It can be done with a tiny skeleton crew of developers, and it requires almost no effort or expertise whatsoever. There are countless games which do just that. The developers are anything but lazy; in fact, I suspect that they're being overworked to keep up with the demand for changes and new content.
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@BunnyTheHutt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/877018#Comment_877018
It's because the monopolized a market, not because the game is good. As you said, no game that has the concept of an A-Symmetrical Horror has done well, but that doesn't mean DBD is doing well either, it's simply doing better then the rest.
IMO BHVR has gotten lazy, and are happy with the bare minimum. Why try when you know nothing else can touch you? It's why I'm hoping Last Year's steam release succeeds because BHVR needs competition too make them try.
If you think this is the "bare minimum" and that BHVR isn't trying, you clearly haven't seen what it looks like when a game company isn't giving their best effort.
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@DaGreenBolt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/877097#Comment_877097
Fortnite already accomplished this, but I think not only the discounts are driving people to the game, but also some movie killers such as: Michael Myers, Freddy, Pig, Demogorgon, and Ghostafce.
Though OP does make major point, the game is unbalanced, and all the Devs are doing is ignoring feedback, and are just releasing cosmetics.
The thing is the game is slowly growing, mainly because DBD has poor player retention. If the Devs decided to fix the game, and balance it, it would increase the player retention.
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/877658#Comment_877658
You basically explained my point about player retention, and how DBD barely achieve a small player retention.
None of those killers are what drew me to the game. I own literally none of them. The gameplay is what drew me in; I heard consistent praise for the gameplay across social media and forums.
All good video games are unbalanced. Truly balanced games are ****ing boring. There's a reason why eSports is dominated by games like League of Legends (A hilariously imbalanced game in a multitude of ways), and not online chess.
If the devs were ignoring feedback, there wouldn't be community managers and developers replying to threads on this forum, on a regular basis. There wouldn't be balance changes and design choices being made with the community's feedback in mind. This level of direct interaction with the community is a rarity in the gaming industry.
Compared to the vast majority of online multiplayer games, DBD's player retention is astoundingly high. Most online multiplayer games die long before their third anniversary, or at best, are reduced to a tiny community of diehard fans. You really don't know how good you have it here.
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@YoosungKim said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/877018#Comment_877018
Steam charts are high because it's always discounted
It was discounted last week.
This weekend
It gets discounted every month basically
That's why they are high
You're welcome
If price was a major factor in this game's continued success, then why are so many free-to-play games doing so poorly compared to DBD after three years? This is self-defeating logic.
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@BunnyTheHutt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/877056#Comment_877056
I want fnaf, not because I think it would be good, but because it would make everyone mad and I find that funny too watch.
For me, the killer I don't want is Pennywise. Ignoring the argument of 2 clown killers, he's a god, so I find it very hard too believe he could be controlled like a puppet by the entity.
Pennywise is a god? How was a god defeated by a handful of mere mortals? Pennywise may be an ancient, eldritch being, but I'd hesitate to call him a god if he can taste defeat at the hands of normal humans.
The Entity could destroy all of its victims if it wanted to, and all efforts to challenge the Entity's power have ended in abject failure.
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@NightmareReborn said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/877080#Comment_877080
I'm obviously going to be biased, and hated for defending FNaF here, but I feel like people give it a lot less credit than it deserves sometimes.
I, as someone who's liked the games since day one, think that FNaF has become greatly oversaturated with all sorts of different games. It was originally only supposed to be FNaF 1, 2, and 3, but after 3 was received poorly, he made 4, and after that was received poorly... it sort of just spiraled out of control from there.
That being said, there's still a reason it's still alive today. FNaF has an extremely creative community, constantly producing many neat and original fan games that aren't that bad. The reason why people associate FNaF with a younger audience is because... well, that's what it is. FNaF has a T rating compared to DbD's M rating, so it only makes sense that it would attract a younger audience. Regardless of the community, the lore of the series goes pretty in depth, and I think that's where people begin to merge it with the idea of a FNaF character coming to DbD. It's why when someone brings up the idea, Springtrap (the main killer of the franchise) is mostly always the wanted killer, and NOT Freddy.
Here's the lore of the character. Obviously, I'm not going to make you read it if you don't want to (just skip the next paragraph then), but it sort of provides the argument for why many people think he should be included in DbD.
In a summary, Springtrap was an employee of Freddy Fazbear's Pizza that lured dozens of children into a backroom, trapping them and killing them. The trapped spirits of the children eventually are accidentally freed, corner him into a lethal animatronic suit, which killis him, but his spirit lived on. After several decades, the decaying suit (with his corpse inside) is brought over to a tourist attraction, which later burns down. He survives the fire, and manages to arrive at an unknown establishment, where he is lured inside alongside the last remaining trapped spirits. That place turns out to be a trap built by his former coworker, and the place is lit on fire, killing and releasing the spirits of everyone inside. Springtrap is then sent into an eternal purgatory, where he suffers against all of the abominations he made for all of eternity.
It's why I personally feel cheated everytime someone just says "FNaF is cringey jumpscare material! Of course it shouldn't be included as a killer" and call it a day. There is more to it than what meets the eye. However, if you were to read through the full lore, many arguements, and many concepts, and THEN decide that FNaF wouldn't be a good addition, that's perfectly fine. I personally think that Springtrap would be a pretty cool addition, but I understand that's not a popular opinion. I also understand that this game is sort of taboo when it comes to DbD, but I highly encourage people to give it a fair chance before deciding on a final verdict.
Thank you for coming to my Ted Talk.
Well, apart from the stigma surrounding FnaF, Springtrap brings his own design challenges.
What would his power be? How would you create a power that both fits the themes of FnaF, and fits into the gameplay of DbD?
The animatronics' methods of killing tend to be too straightforward to provide interesting gameplay. Usually they just sneak up on you, sometimes crawling through the vents, then either forcefully stuff you into an animatronic suit (Which doesn't sound like it would be fundamentally different from hooking survivors), or kill you offscreen somehow. Maybe they strangle/crush you with their bare hands or bite your head off? Either way, what would differentiate them from killers like Myers or Ghostface?
What would his animations look like? The animatronics have never had any 3D walking animations, much less all the animations you'd need for a full-fledged DBD killer. The FnaF games leave a lot to the imagination. It'd be difficult to create a killer that captures the same emotions one feels when playing a FnaF game when they're a fully visible and mobile creature, instead of a killer that briefly appears on a camera, or in a dark corner of your vision, before vanishing in the blink of an eye, then pouncing right in your face.
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@Andreyu44 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/877033#Comment_877033
A multiplayer online game SHOULD keep growing after 3 years..
Im not saying its failing,but its no where near as good as it could be.
It's extremely rare for an online multiplayer game to keep growing after 3 years. The vast majority of online games experience a steady decline in population post-launch. Dead By Daylight's continued success and growth is a huge anomaly compared to other games.
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@Apple2o said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/875972#Comment_875972
A safe pallet will never get more than a single use.The survivor has no reason to ever stop looping the pallet until it has been kicked. That's why it is a safe pallet. These are kicked instantly.
An unsafe pallet is a pallet that the killer can get hits at even when the pallet is dropped. So there is plenty of potential for hits no matter how many times the pallet is used or reset. Personally, I tend to break these after the survivor goes down regardless.
So, it's usefulness is limited to a SWF squad trying to reset the unsafe pallets during loops, which I don't find very threatening. There is no way this perk is taken over any of the current meta perks for high level play.
I really have to ask: why bother assuming that this perk won't see use, long before you actually see it in action? What could you possibly gain from assuming that this perk won't pose a threat to you?
This is the equivalent of a villain monologuing about how the heroes couldn't possibly defeat him, so he need not prepare himself for the upcoming confrontation. Overconfidence is a slow and insidious killer.
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@Apple2o said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/875940#Comment_875940
I can just read the description and make a judgment. There are physical limitations to what can happen in the game. I have already described every use-case for a pallet reset, and they are all borderline worthless.
I didn't need to ever use things like mindbreaker or cruel limits to know they would be terrible perks. Surge I fell for, I will admit that. I thought it might be better than pop goes but absolutely not.
Pallets are one of the most powerful tools available to survivors in a chase. Therefore, being able to use a single pallet more than once is powerful, regardless of whether it is safe or unsafe.
You've never played against this perk, which means survivors have never had a way to re-use pallets before now. You can't anticipate every use-case for this perk when you've never had to deal with this possibility before.
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@Apple2o said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/875921#Comment_875921
Just walking around them and ignoring the pallet is the correct play to begin with. That's why it is an unsafe pallet by definition. Usually it means unless they get a stun on me, they are taking a hit even if they drop it. They are 100% taking a hit if they try to play it for any length of time.
And no, I haven't experienced that situation......because the perk isn't out yet?
Any good pallet is getting kicked instantly. I think people will struggle to find good value in the perk. I would rather have the SWF team running around resetting bad pallets instead of doing generators. It reminds me of sabo, fun, but ultimately useless.
Well, you're awfully confident that this perk wouldn't pose a problem to you, for someone who's never actually gone against it.
Players are creative, coordinated players even more so. You're setting yourself up for a rude awakening if you think people wouldn't find a way to abuse this. Just look what they did with Nemesis.
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@Apple2o said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/875911#Comment_875911
No, I am a killer main. But I also play both sides. And I can't even see getting bullied by a SWF because of this perk.
Any safe pallet I instantly kick during chase, because otherwise any survivor with a brain can loop it indefinitely. Unsafe pallets I bloodlust or mindgame, depending on the skill of the survivor I am chasing. And then once the survivor is down, I kick the pallet before I hook them. Is the SWF going to run in mid-chase to eat some hits so they can reset the unsafe pallet we are looping? Lol.
Well, it's quite simple: A survivor drops an unsafe pallet in your face, then abandons the loop and keeps running. Now you have to choose between kicking the pallet and likely losing the chase, or leaving the pallet to be reset by one of the survivor's buddies.
If you're truly a killer main, how have you never experienced that situation?
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@Apple2o said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/875873#Comment_875873
That perk is super memey and I don't even know why it has a cooldown. Any safe pallet is going to instantly be broken during chase, and people resetting un-safe pallets seems pretty worthless?
Found the survivor main.
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Inconsistent hit detection, bugs, 360'ing, skill checks, emblems.
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@DepressedClownMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/875122#Comment_875122
Yeah but when you place a trap for example, that contributes to the deviousness emblem
There is no deviousness emblem. The emblems are Gatekeeper, Devout, Malicious, and Chaser.
Gatekeeper gives points based on how long you are able to stall the generators, Devout gives points based on sacrifices, Malicious gives points based on successful hits and hooks (And also deducts points whenever the survivors heal), and Chaser gives points based on successful hits during chases (And deducts points for camping the hook).
Notice that only one of these emblems actually tracks how many kills you get. The rest will only give you points if you fulfill certain conditions while you're attempting to achieve your main objective, with the end result that killers are often punished for success. If the survivors all AFK and just let the killer hook them all, the Killer will most likely just get a safety pip. Plague finds it especially difficult to get a good score, because fully infecting a survivor doesn't count as a hit, even though cleansing counts against the Plague as a heal.
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Keys and moris should both be removed. They lack counterplay.
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I think Forever Freddy is the only part of reworked Freddy's kit that might need changes. Being able to passively slow down the game so much (In addition to everything else Freddy can do) seems a little excessive.
I predict that if they change anything, it'll be the Forever Freddy add-ons.
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@Go_Go_Roboto said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/875168#Comment_875168
It's camping in the same way as camping after the generators are completed. Is it rude? Yes. Are you out of line? No.
I would hesitate to even call it rude. It's just the Killer using a winning strategy. No Killer in their right mind would leave the hook when the exit gates are just a few feet away and ready to open.
If you really don't wanna deal with a camper after the exit gates are powered, just escape.
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@DepressedClownMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/874880#Comment_874880
Bloodpoints are the emblem system working tho
No, they're not. Bloodpoints are awarded separately from emblems. You get bloodpoints for things like placing traps, hitting objects with Vile Purge and using Chainsaw Sprint without hitting anyone, but those actions don't affect your emblem points at all.
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@DepressedClownMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/874476#Comment_874476
You get 300 bps every time a survivor becomes broken
I'm not talking about bloodpoints; I'm talking about emblems. Big difference.
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@Blueberry said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/873440#Comment_873440
There is a difference and they said not to do either one.
I agree with your point about there not being a reason to release statistics if they are that flawed in the first place. All that does is mislead people.
I agree that if BHVR didn't intend people to use these statistics as evidence, they shouldn't have released them at all. However, I think you seriously underestimate the value of even the broadest statistics. These statistics still give us an accurate picture of what is happening across the game. It tells us two very important things:
-Every killer except the Nurse performs well at all ranks.
-Killers become more dominant at the red ranks, not less.
These facts contradict much of the community's perception of the game: That the game is survivor-sided overall, and that high-ranking Killers have little chance of winning against a team of skilled survivors.
So I don't see why we should disregard hard evidence like this. The ideal goal of a debate is to use facts, evidence and logic to find the truth of a topic. Why rely on opinions, anecdotal evidence and perception over a piece of hard statistical evidence like this?
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@DepressedClownMain said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/107933/plague-is-unfairly-punished-by-emblem-system
They already count as a hit, they give you 300 bps.
I think they should give 700-800
They don't count as a hit as far as the emblem system is concerned. I only get credit for M1 hits with emblems.
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@NoShinyPony said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/873485#Comment_873485
Pips are what currently defines whether you "won" or "lost". So if we want to talk about whether killers or survivors are favoured, we can't ignore the pips. Pip statistics are as important as statistics about the difference between solos and SWFs.
I don't know how long you have been playing the game. Your suggestion is basically the old Victory Cube.
Well then, pips are a terrible way to determine whether you won or lost. If the survivors literally just stand around and do nothing all game, and just let the killer down and hook every single one of them, the killer probably won't even pip. In fact, they might depip.
The current emblem system punishes you for trying to accomplish your main objective as quickly and optimally as possible. Compared to virtually any other PvP ranking system, emblems are a joke.
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@NoShinyPony said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/873460#Comment_873460
A 2k is usually a de-pip at red ranks, a 3k a safe pip. If you want to draw conclusions from the very limited information, then you would have to come to the conclusion that the average killer de-pips at red ranks.
I don't see how this is favouring killers.
We also don't know anything about the winning (pipping) statistics for survivors at red ranks.
That sounds like a problem with the emblem system, and not the actual balance between survivors and killers. BHVR has stated that the ideal average kill-rate should be 50%, so it sounds like the emblem system should be reworked to fit that ideal. 1-0 kills should be a depip, 2 kills should be a safe pip, 3 kills should be a single pip, 4 kills should be a 2-pip.
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@DarthRane said:
Lol all killers are actively hindered by emblems with the exception of legion. If you're mercing and entire team and you manage to hook all of them really quick AKA play TOO good, youll be lucky if you pip.
The system is designed where they want you to play well but not GREAT. At least as killer.
Plague suffers more than any other Killer I've played, because of the emblem system. I literally just got a 4k, with Iridescent emblems in every category except Chaser (Which was a measly Silver, despite the fact that I won almost every single chase), because none of my infections were counted as a hit.
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@NoShinyPony said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/873440#Comment_873440
These statistics lack so many information that I wouldn't draw any conclusions from them.
They give a solid overview of the state of the game. They're quite valid to draw upon as evidence. It's not the level of information that you could get from a fansite like Dotabuff, and it certainly isn't everything (For example, it doesn't tell you why Freddy is performing so well), but looking at the data, one can safely conclude that every killer performs well, except for low-ranking Nurses.
Why shy away from hard evidence just because it doesn't provide every scrap of information we could want from the game? The ideal goal of any debate is to discuss a topic and find the truth of a matter, and hard evidence gives you a great way to do just that.
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@Blueberry said:
"Please keep in mind that numbers are not everything; there are a whole bunch of factors that could influence these numbers."
The devs themselves stated that you should not be drawing conclusions exactly like you are based on the data as it does not take into account a multitude of factors.
There's a difference between drawing conclusions based on data, and using statistical data as evidence to back an argument.
Or, if we're not even supposed to do that, then what was the point of releasing this data at all? To justify the paycheck of some intern at BHVR?
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@BunnyTheHutt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/873209#Comment_873209
Run Small game, or the new Detectives Hunch. They give you all the info you need too find totems.
Ah, the classic BHVR solution: run a perk to fix an aspect of the game that annoys you, instead of actually addressing the problem.
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@BunnyTheHutt said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/871419#Comment_871419
If you don't cleanse totems then you know the risk you take, but don't blame the game if you aren't willing to do mechanics too counter.
You don't always have the luxury of taking the time to find and cleanse all the totems, you know. The longer you wait to finish the gens, the more time you give the killer to find you and hook you.
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@TooKoolFoU said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/872936#Comment_872936
“But cleansing totems take too much time” - survivor that uses selfcare
selfcare takes 16 seconds to complete (no healing buffs applied) and it takes 16 seconds to cleanse a totem. I see people heal 5 times a game with self care. You can’t break a totem 5 times a game cause it takes too long??? That’s my response to those people. I agree it’s a dumb excuse for being a sore loser.
When you self-care, you don't have to spend any time combing the map, looking for the totem, you just find a corner and press M1.
And unless you're in voice comms with all of the other survivors, you won't even know if all the totems have been cleansed unless you happen upon all five of them over the course of the match. And if you miss even one of the totems, NOED still comes into play.
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If the killer is camping, just leave them. Do gens. Escape. Cut your losses and take your easy victory.
Why people constantly feel the need to unhook in front of the killer, I'll never know.
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Yeah, I'm another Spine Chill enthusiast. The information it gives me has saved my life many times over, especially against stealth killers.
The value of knowing when it's safe to keep working on a gen, when it's time to hide, when it's safe to heal, and when it's time to start running is immeasurable.
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Yeah, the biggest weakness of a SWF group is that they tend to be very reluctant to leave each other behind. Prey upon this weakness. Make them pay for every unhook.
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@Almo said:
What usually happens with SWF is that they get super-altruistic and refuse to leave the match unless they can get everyone out. Only at very high ranks and with SWFs that play together a lot is there much of a benefit in terms of escape rate.
That does not mean we don't want to do some things to make the solo experience better. As someone else pointed out, that's the reason for the Kindred buff.
Perhaps escape rate isn't the right metric, as SWFs can be more annoying to play against even if they don't necessarily escape.
You and your statistics have definitely given me a new perspective, Almo. And you're right; SWF groups are extremely altruistic, and now that I know that, I've immediately started performing a lot better against them. Their insistence on getting everyone out alive makes them predictable, and gives them an easy weakness to exploit. Patrol the hook aggressively, and you get free hits galore.
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@Venom368 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/869227#Comment_869227
I'm saying you shouldn't have the opinion "i'm not having fun, so i'm not going to let anybody else in the game have fun either". It's being considerate and a good sport.
BHVR doesn't want survivors to have the option to quit the game without a penalty. Why would the add a way for killers to do that when they don't want it to exist on either side? That's like saying "Survivors can abuse a bug, but killers can't. They should add in the bug for killers so they can abuse it too. It's a simple principle of fairness."
When I'm not having fun and I've decided I don't want to continue playing, I'd like to be able to say "I give up, you win" instead of having to wait for the survivors to escape after they've had their fun taunting me. When I play chess, board games, or games like Hearthstone or Starcraft, I can concede the match at any time if I want. I don't see how it ruins the other team's fun when I give them a win, unless they only find enjoyment out of watching me suffer.
If BHVR doesn't want survivors to quit the game without any penalties, then why do they give survivors the option to die early during the struggle phase? If purposely dying on the hook is a reportable offense, then BHVR has the power to make it so you simply can't die on the hook before the 60 seconds are up. Why not take advantage of that instead of banning people for making use of normal in-game mechanics? Bans should be a last resort, not your first choice to deal with a problem.
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@Venom368 said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/868988#Comment_868988
Leaving a game because you're losing or you don't like how someone else is playing comes from an entitled mentality. It's part of the game. Get over it. Stop being a child and throwing a tantrum.
If you're getting stomped by the toxic SWF group, suck it up and say 'gg' after the game. It can be extremely angering, but take a breath and just play it out. They are trying to evoke a response from you for their amusement.
Most people rage quit on both sides because they want to deny the opponent points/fun/satisfaction/etc. This is just purposely trying to ruin the game for other people, because you were losing, or things weren't going how you wanted. That's why there is a penalty being added for leaving.
If a survivor kills themself on hook at the start of a match, you can report them for Unsportsmanlike Conduct/Greifing. These type of reports are going to have greater weight once the disconnect penalty patch comes out. BHVR isn't stupid, they know survivors are going to try to do this as a way to get around the automatic time penalty ban.
In the case of
4-man immersive blendette squads who refuse to do gens
you will eventually find them and kill them. And your rank will increase. You have the chance to dodge if you see 4 Blendette's in the lobby. And if you really are so frustrated with how the game is going, leave and take the time penalty.
This is a game, dude, not a job. If your response is to say "suck it up" when I'm not having fun, there's a problem. You can't tell me that I should be having fun when I'm not. If the survivors have the option to quit without a penalty, then killers should have the same option. It's a simple principle of fairness.
And if dying on the hook during the struggle phase is a reportable offense, then why does the game even give you the option to die early during the struggle phase? Just take away the button prompt so the survivor doesn't have to do anything if they want to stay in the game, AND so they can't just suicide on the hook.
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@Venom368 said:
You can just leave the game. If you really don't want to play the match anymore, take the time penalty you're going to be given.
Survivors can leave the game without incurring a penalty, so why can't Killers?
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@Sluzzy said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/867078#Comment_867078
I just want good survivors and good nurses to be treated the same. Adding the cool down mechanic is like forcing r1 survivors to have a cool down before working on another gen. I bet a good nurse couldn't beat 4 good survivors now. They can use the maximum of 2 blinks with standard distance plus the cool down to their advantage. BTW, they all have dead hard so that is 3 actual perfect blinks every time before they go on a hook. To have a perfect game, that must be done 3 times to each survivor...unless you camp them to death.
They added the cooldown mechanic because she's able to teleport to a survivor, thus bypassing all of their normal defenses in a chase including walls, windows and pallets. An ability that powerful can only be balanced if it comes with a drawback that reads "If you screw up, you lose the chase".
Nurse's chase times are easily the shortest in the game. She can down even the best survivors in seconds, despite the cooldown. Your comparison is flawed; Nurse's blinks are the equivalent of a survivor ability that reads "After hitting two tremendously difficult skill checks, instantly repair a generator to completion".
She still has a kill-rate of more than 60% in red ranks, so I'd say that she's still quite capable of defeating 4 good survivors.
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@SilentSpectre said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/866266#Comment_866266
This is a joke, right? Dream pallets are the most OP killer power in the game right now.
Uhh... no? Just keep track of which pallets have been used and dream pallets will do nothing. Or wake up so they'll disappear.
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@Mc_Harty said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/866237#Comment_866237
Yeah basically... Freddy feels more fair from a survivor perspective. Which is odd considering his kill-rate.
His Dream Snares, Dream Pallets and teleports are all powerful, and he can slow the game down quite a bit, but it doesn't feel like BS or a guessing game when you play against him. When he teleports to a generator, you can see it coming before he arrives. When he places down a snare, you can see it before you step on it. When dream pallets are in play, you can keep track of which pallets have been used in order to avoid getting tricked by one.
So when Freddy beats you, it feels like he beat you because he played better than you, and not because his power reduces every chase to a guessing game where you cross your fingers and hope that he makes a mistake (Looking at you, Nurse/Spirit).
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I think it says something about Freddy when he performs so well, yet people don't really complain about him that much. It probably means that his kit has a better design than Nurse or Spirit's, which makes him more fun to play against. People often don't mind getting killed if they had fun, and the Killer felt fair to play against.
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@[Deleted User] said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/866018#Comment_866018
Her playstyle can be rather obtuse. I think the only people that use her tend to be very good with her, which goes a long way towards explaining her kill rate. Additonally, she tends to have an extremely tedious wrap up phase once two are dead if she doesn't snowball. Survivors tend to get ridiculously immersed and you end up patrolling and chasing at 110% to get the remaining stragglers.
Yeah, I don't own Hag, but I can't say that her playstyle really appeals to me. Slowly walking around the map at 110% speed, setting traps, watching the first few gens pop, then snowballing as soon as people start triggering my traps. It feels slow, uninteractive, luck-based and boring.
Trapper has a similar playstyle, but I think it feels more satisfying when your traps can actually hurt people on their own instead of just letting you teleport to them, and when your traps lead to insta-downs instead of just a hit. Plus, Trapper moves faster.
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@Peanits said:
https://forum.deadbydaylight.com/en/discussion/comment/866079#Comment_866079
We could, although it's nowhere near as interesting as you'd think. You'll basically see it and go, "Yep, those are the perks I see all the time."
So... Most-used survivor perks: Borrowed Time, Decisive Strike, Adrenaline, Dead Hard, Balanced Landing?
And most-used Killer perks: BBQ & Chili, Hex: Ruin, No One Escapes Death, Monitor & Abuse, Spirit Fury, Enduring, Nurse's Calling?